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Hawktitan's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 1,103 posts (2,786 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 3 Pathfinder Society characters. 7 aliases.


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Mark Stratton wrote:
BaconBastard wrote:

One of the big issues that I've seen with forcing role-playing for social skills is that, as I'm sure many of you have noticed, many people playing these games don't possess these social skills, especially in the same capacity of their characters.

My paladin currently has like +11 to diplomacy, I can say with certainty that he is much more sociable than I am and would be much more articulate in how he talks to npcs than I would be. The roll is to represent how well he did at social interaction, not how well I did.

The same should absolutely be true for intimidating someone to alter their attitude towards you.

I won't speak for other GMs here, but in home games and in public games for PFS, I don't let people generally just make Diplomacy or Intimidate checks without, at the very least, telling me or describing to me what they are attempting to do. I understand that some people may be shy, or not speak well or eloquently or whatever - I won't penalize a person for that. But, I will require a player to do more than tell me "I am making a Diplomacy check." That won't cut it in my game.

And, if what they describe (or if they are good at role-playing and play it well) is particularly creative, novel, etc., I'll likely give them a +2 bonus to boot.

Personally I've always found it interesting that -

"I roll disable device to pick the lock" is usually prefectly acceptable
"I roll diplomacy to change attitude" is not

I've always thought that the best response to a high diplomacy roll is simply 'Ok, they are friendly, now what are you trying to get them to do?'

And for the record I fully support the idea that diplomacy/intimidate/bluff not be used to wreck modules and be used like dominate or charm. A guard will not leave his post because he likes you, and you can't convince someone that a tree is made of cheese.

AGorgen wrote:

1. If I get arcane strike, would it work with all my unarmed and natural attacks?

2. Do you think Bleedng Attack is worth it?

3. Natural and unarmed attacks with amulet of mighty fists bypass DR?

4. Precise Strike is worth it? Considering I would have 7 attacks and my flanking partner would have 5, without considering haste.

5. Any eldritch heritage bloodline is worth the feat for this character?

6. Should I focus any feat on damaging spells (like elemental focus, djinni style, etc) or is it a waste of feats?

7. Spell Perfection with Schoking Grasp Intensify + Quicken (with magical lineage) would be a really good swift action for a level 1 spell, wouldn't it? Specially with Djinni Style for extra damage.

8. Toppling Spell with Magic Missile (and Magical Lineage) is a good ranged attack for this char?

Again, thanks for all the answers!

1) Yes

2) No (my opinion)
3) Yes
4) Maybe. It's certainly an option
5) Abysall for strength
6) Elemental Focus and Djinni style are very different feats and not easilly comparable, I'm not sure what you are asking here.
7) Sure it's good. A feat chain and a minimum level of 15 should be something good.
8) Decent trick, but prehaps out of place for this character.

Intimidate to make a drake shaken should have worked absolutely.

Intimidate to change attitude may or may not work. It's very clear in some senarios that an intimidate attempt does nothing or has negative effects even if the roll does succede. So I agree with the GM on this one.

Diplomacy vs Paladin. Should have worked to change attitude positively, though I don't know what you were ultimately hoping to accomplish. To not allow it will make it less fun, (rollplay vs roleplay). Instead of making a fun theme it will be 'I roll diplomacy to change attitude' especially in PFS.

Rory wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Casting defensively when a melee is in your face isn't metagmaing, it's self preservation. The counter to that is to also take Disruptive and Spellbreaker.

GM: "The archer 5-ft steps away and shoots you... oh wait... you have that feat. Never mind, he pulls his sword and swings at you."

This said when the archer never met the fighter and the fighter had yet to use the feat. That is meta-gaming.

Every caster taking a 30% to 50% chance to fail a defensively cast spell when they can take a 5-ft step and (normally) cast it without a chance to fail it... that is also meta-gaming.

After the fighter exhibits the ability, then it would not be meta-gaming.

I disagree because the action sequence would not be 5' step and cast a spell, fighter 5' steps up and attacks with an AOO.

It's caster 5' steps, fighter follows, caster thinks oh crap he moved faster then I expected and is still in my face so I'd better cast defensively. Same with the bow user, 5' step to intend to use the bow but is followed, so bow is dropped and sword is drawn instead.

Lunge is a decent feat, but requires a bab of 6.

I am curious as to what was chosen in the end if the original poster is still around.

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Third, You are giving up all arcana for half your characters career. No arcana for that long is excessive.

Abstractly you can think of it as an arcana that does this at level 3-

Grants Alertness feat
Grants +1 magical weapon (that can be further enchanced by your arcane pool)
Add +1 damage to all damage rolls for one encounter a day

That's not a terrible arcana.

I do think that Spring Attack is a bit underrated and a really good feat, but not for the reasons a new player might think. Advancing on an enemy with reach without provoking is good, attacking and then moving from an enemy seems to be it's secondary use rather then it's primary one.

Weapon Focus is better than Furious Focus, at least at level 2 (assuming there is a weapon that you will stick to, but I assume the elven curved blade is the weapon of choice for this character).

She'll be attacking at +7. With Furious Focus she'll will be power attacking at +7. With Weapon Focus it will be attacking at +8 or power attacking at +7. With Weapon if there is an attack of opportunity power attacking would still be +7 instead of +6 with Furious Focus.

Additionally I'd examine her traits. You can rebuild and respend wealth freely until you play your first game at level 2. Threatening Defender or Armor Expert traits are really good for such a character. Armor Expert allows Mithril Breastplate with basically no penalty while Threatening Defender trait allows free use of Combat Expertise until level 4, and reducing the penalty thereafter. Note you can't get both though.

I'd go with Cleave, it's one of the better low level feats in my opinion.

She's a new player and rolling more attacks is fun. You can swap it out at level 4 per rules of being a fighter.

Trip is nice, but it's more of a support role and I think something that gives more spotlight to new players is a good thing. It could be she likes the support role however.

I'd go for two bites.

Interesting question.

I have a couple of PFS characters planned out. A fighter who is level 3 that I am probably going to multiclass into monk at level 9. I have an Oracle that currently level 3 and will remain an Oracle throughout his career. I have a level 2 swashbuckler that will multiclass into Magus when he hits level 3. When I do another character I'd like to make a sorcerer that would eventually go into Dragon Disciple.

So I guess I like multiclassing for the most part.

Rapanuii wrote:
andreww wrote:
Rapanuii wrote:
I never bothered to look into masterwork tool, and just associated climbers kits and stuff that were pre-existing to be associated with this. I didn't know someone could make one, but I don't think there is any legal way to use this in PFS.
Masterwork tools are legal in PFS.
I'm talking about just making one up to accommodate a skill

I believe you can, but expect table variation. In short, I would try to get the item from the scenario in question to minimize scrutiny, and especially for social skills (bluff/intimidate/diplomacy) I'd really try to avoid using a generic 'masterwork tool'.

On the bright side, if you get a masterwork tool and the GM doesn't allow it for that particular scenario you aren't down a ton of gold.

3 people marked this as a favorite.

I saw that post in the other thread but let it go as I didn't want to get side tracked, so thanks for making this thread.

*cracks knuckles*

First off, dispelling a myth right now - A blackblade is right on track in terms of magical enhancements by the WBL chart.

Level 9 - 46,000 gp
A +3 weapon is worth 18k, or roughly 39% of this, more than the recommended 25% of wealth on any single item. So you save thousands of gold on a weapon, and the amount is not something to gloss over.

Well what else do you get?

Major benefits:
Alertness (I hear perception is good)
The ability to ignore DR
More damage on demand

Minor Benefits:
Telepathy - less 'useful', but I imagine it could have an effect if you were blinded (blind is definitely something that most enemies use in PFS) and clever players may have good uses for it.

Teleport Blade: Never be without your weapon, no matter what.

Ignoring everything over level 12 for the moment, we can go further if people really want to.

Is there really that many useful low level arcana? What is so reality bending? Arcane Accuracy is nice I guess, but that is still a martial effect. Hexcrafter/Bladebound does have a harder time with this since they want hexes and arcana.

So what happens is your level 3 arcana is basically locked into damage instead of whatever else you may choose. Oh, you also can't get extra arcana until level 7. I probably wouldn't want to anyway unless playing a hexcrafter.

Speaking of Arcana - at 12th level the difference of the arcane pool between bladebound and normal is 2 arcana, made up for by a feat if the loss is really that bad. And let us not forget the Blade itself has an arcane pool for it's own abilities, which is 3 at this level.

Is Blackblade more martial? Yeah, a bit, due to locking in a couple choices instead of having flexibility. Hey that almost sounds like what an archetype would do? Crazy huh?

If you really want to do martial mix Kensai with Bladebound. Now that would be a martial Magus.

This is a valid point, but I tend to take Extra Arcana feats to pick up the other Arcana or Hexes I might otherwise get. Of course, you then are loosing out on feats, but an Arcana/Hex is generally worth more than a feat anyway.

I want to see these amazing reality bending arcana that you can pick up at levels 3 and 5.

I don't get the hate for Bladebound. I really don't.

Here is the trippy fighter build I am working on in PFS, granted it doesn't come online till a bit late, until then you just hurt things.

Twohanded weapon trip Fighter:

No archetype applied, but could use Lore Warden or Two-Handed. I did core fighter for heavier armor.

str 17
dex 14
con 14
int 14
wis 8
cha 10

Traits - bluff skill increase (take your pick, there are several), threatening defender

1 Fighter- Combat Expertise, Power Attack, Improved Feint
2 Fighter- Weapon Focus (or cleave - if cleave, swap at 4)
3 Fighter- Furious Focus
4 Fighter- Combat Reflexes
5 Fighter- Improved Trip
6 Fighter- Felling Smash
7 Fighter- Greater Trip
8 Fighter- Greater Feint
9 Monk (Flowing/Master of Many styles) - Vicious Stomp, Style Feat
10 Fighter -
11 Fighter - Dragon style, Greater Weapon Focus

The closest thing I can think of is a tiefling with the Grasping Tail, you can pick things up as a swift action.

Well I'd start by being 'cured' of lycanthrophy.

However you want an arcane caster/frontliner? Sounds like a good time for a Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple. Lawful good at that? Level or 2 of paladin. You'd keep a shapechanger feel if/when you turn into a dragon.

In a home game, as long as everyone is having fun sure. I'd really hammer down the 'pacifist' philosphy though as it applies to the game.

Please, do not ever play a pacifist character in Pathfinder Society where you will be playing with people you do not know.

Rocks fall, he dies

If you decide to use a whip a level 1 dip in Kensai Magus alleviates much of the pain of whip mastery. Memorize some True Strikes and being in armor isn't a problem for spells.

Is flowing monk pfs legal?

Yes, assuming you have access to the source material.

Spell Focus - Conjuration
-> Greater Spell Focus

Elemental Focus - Water
-> Greater Elemental Focus

Heighten Spell

+Charisma modifiers such as headband of charisma. If you can't get that you can use a buff such as Eagle's Splendor.

Well I tried

Warning warning, tangent argument alert - not really relevant to thread

An oracle would be better in a sense, but then you would be limited to only affecting undead/negative affinity creature (and outsiders with a feat).

A negative energy channeling cleric would be better in the sense you typically have more targets available, but as you discovered you are splitting stats more ways. There aren't really any clerical pit spells but perhaps you can team up with a friendly wizard or sorcerer.

Huh, good call on that. You would save like 6k since you wouldn't need mithril armor then, and the sash looks like it is slotless.

Alternative dips -

2 levels in Ninja. Cha synergizes well and with the Ki pool you can increase your movement speed by 20' on demand or get an extra attack. Other benefits include 1d6 sneak attack and a ninja trick or combat feat of your choice.

3 levels of fighter + Mithril Full Plate, plain or any archetype that doesn't remove armor training. Other benefits include a couple more feats, no BAB loss, possibly additional AC depending on your current dex. Downside is Mithril Full Plate is pretty expensive and three levels is kind of a lot.

I might suggest an Elemental Sorcerer dip instead? More spell diversity and you get a +30 land speed as opposed to +10.

Don't do this. All it would take is a 15 level dip :)

If I were building a tree with a quadruped eidolon this is where I would start -

Bite, grab (bite), swallow whole. Getting stuck inside a tree sounds reasonably thematic.

Slam attacks. While not optimal, it's supposed to be a tree right?


If you are carrying Merry and Pippin - Mount evolution.

My off the cuff answer to something like that would be no.

In the case of gunsmithing it's more or less required to make the class/archetype work rather and subbing in another feat for it doesn't feel right.

That is different than say a Lore Warden who wants Combat Expertise as a feat at level 1 when they get it as a bonus feat at level 2, which I would allow retraining for.

GMW lasts hour/level
Keen Edge lasts 10 min/level

So it's very likely that these could be prebuffed, esp with an extended rod.

Personally I would rule that Keen Edge does not count towards the +10 of a weapon. It does not grant the Keen property (in fact it explicitly says it doesn't stack with it, making it different effects). If someone had improved critical you would not count that as a magical enhancement I presume.

ryric wrote:
Bob_Loblaw wrote:
I would start with abilities that require activation and say they can't be activated if that would put the item over the limit. Since it's still possible to break the limit with other abilities I'm going to have to think about this some more.

This is where I was going as well - a lot of the elemental abilities, for example, can be turned on or off. So in those cases you can't turn them on if they would bring you above +10.

This can get even worse with an arcane archer:
+1 bow with +9 worth of abilities
+1 arrows with +9 worth of abilities
+1 with a bunch of yet different abilities from AA.

Purple Dragon Knight has a good point though - a high level archer can easily fire 7 arrows a round. Going through 200,000 gp in 7 rounds of combat is a severe level of expense. (28,000 gp per round).


Pretty sure that the amulet of mighty fists is better than the braid. I know I hear a lot of grumbling that the braid and amulet compete for the neck slot which makes the braid not useful.

Aasimar Wood Oracle.

Favored class benefit to increasing Wood Armor. Wood Armor revelation with Magical Vestment spell seems like it would be legit.

Wood Bond with a longspear, reach and fighter-like attack bonus.

Become a plant-monster at later levels if you want with Tree Form.

Thorn Burst for terrain control + damage as a swift action (caltrops stop charges).

If the age thing for a dragon is really a problem, just RP it as a 'stunted' dragon who can never grow bigger - he learns to get more powerful by other means (class levels).

As far as the crossbow thing, eh, it's fluff the price is up to you. I'd let her have the thing (secret special masterwork weapon) for the cost of a trait. You can let her explain how it works or you can come up with the details - 'There is an extra string that a lute normally wouldn't have, a special brace that looks like it's meant to go over the shoulder is really to support the trigger mechanism'. Crossbows are typically pretty terrible weapons anyway.

12 sorc / 6 DD / 1 barb / 1 alch

20 - base
5 - level
4 - DD
6 - Inherent
6 - Enhancement
10 - Size
4 - Morale
4 - Alchemy


And the build is pretty coherent too.

Of those mentioned above - I can't play The Confirmation at level 2

The Glass river rescue - technically my oracle is doing this now as a play by post, but it has been going on four months and the thread while not dead is basically on life support. I'll pull the oracle from this if it will get us a game in a new tier.

This will level Kath. While I have some serious sitting down to do and thinking about the direction I want to take him, I can easily have that figured out by the time we start the next mod.

Additionally I have my oracle at level 3, and he's currently in a PbP but I hope the one he is in will be finished by game day - However that particular game is currently moving at a snails pace. If it's NOT done by game day I may consider pulling him anyway....

I did/do hate Derring Do but the rest of the Swashbuckler is fairly interesting. I too wish more more mobility in the class but I can live with it as is.

It was pointed out in the playtest, and I'm fairly confident they got that particular message. Now whether or not they actually change it on the other hand once released is another matter (and one that is hoped for by many including myself).

Stats equivilent to a 5 point buy ouch.

rorek55 wrote:
Also, don't underestimate your parry and riposte attacks! It renders your need for AC null past 11. As your attack rolls effectivly ARE your ac.

Yes and no. Signature deed could potentailly be used for other deeds. Lets also not forget ranged attacks and the fact you are limited by AOOs.

The living part was thrown out after the first part of the playtest - due to it being moronic.

TarkXT wrote:
Hawktitan wrote:
At low levels it's only even slightly close if you build strength. A dex build is terrible for the first three levels but catches up later.

Is there some hard fast rule that says I can't smash people with a heavy pick two handed until three?

14 str is a very good investment for a str build. Gets you more damage from two handing, lets you qualify for power attack. Seems a winner.

Yes, 14 str is a good investment of Str and I'm pretty sure I said you can get close if you build strength :)

The raging barbarian will laugh at you, but it can still get the job done.

At low levels it's only even slightly close if you build strength. A dex build is terrible for the first three levels but catches up later.

Consider the Wakizashi. Consider it with Improved Critical. It crits on 15-20, therefore it hits 15-20 no matter how high the opponents AC is.

The Wakizashi is a nice weapon, it's light so it qualifies for Pirana Strike, it's piercing and slashing as opposed to the rapier which is only piercing.

However, just because a weapon threatens a critical does not mean it automatically hits, only natural 20's offer that benefit.

Extra Panache twice probably isn't needed. I'd replace dodge and one extra panache with something else. Greater Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization stand out but could be anything, perhaps Shadow Strike if concealment is a problem in your games.

Weapon damage dice is determined by the GM, likely a d8 or a d10. Crit is only on a 20.

Since it's an improvised weapon you pretty much ignore the size category - It's one-handed, two-handed or too big to use. In this case it is an anchor that you are using 2 handed.

So really you are looking at only using 1 feat - Catch Off Guard, and a sub-optimal weapon. That's basically fine. To get the most out of Catch Off Guard possibly consider disarming as part of what your guy does.

Here is my quick homebrew solution that I think will solve your problem-

Use the swashbuckler and create your own archetype - instead of getting deeds at levels 1/7/11/15 you get rogue/ninja tricks. Replace the 'guile' pool with Panche (though I like the term guile better to be honest). That should let him get the tricks he wants while being more fightery - there aren't that many must have rogue talents I hope and if there are he's complaining too much.

(You keep the deeds at level 3 because..... Precise Strike....)

Gilfalas wrote:
Caws Rorec wrote:
My issue is should there be an attack roll or CMB roll to grapple the character before flying off with them, in my mind this seems like a multi step process.

If the priest is aware of what is transpiring and wants to escape I would not require any CMB rolls. After all a party member does not have to make a CMB roll to carry another willing party member do they? If the priest is willing to work with the party in this escape I would treat him as an ally. The appropriate fly and stealth rolls would still need to be made, possibly with penalties to the fly rolls once the priest is carried aloft because of his weight and the barbarians possible encumbrance.

Now if the priest they are trying to rescue is unaware of the what is happening they may panic and resist this unseen and unknown force assailing them. Never underestimate the effects suprise and confusion can have on someone.

Also if this priest does not want to be rescued then appropriate rolls would be made to grapple the priest and try to move it.

Personally I agree with this.

Without really knowing the archetype - domains/revelations/bloodlines can give spells where one would not normally have access, so it's probably fine.

The difference is you can't vital strike/felling smash/overhand chop an AOO. This is one reason people feel that Vital Strike played by RAW is so terrible.

Another thread for reference

If you think I'm wrong about this I'd be happy to continue this discussion in another thread.

An AoO uses the attack action, which we know is a standard action. Creating and throwing a bomb is also spelled out as a standard action. Based on that, I see no reason why you couldn't use a bomb in an AoO.

No, an AoO does not use the attack action. As a simple counter example Vital strike uses the attack action, you can not vital strike on an AoO.

Quick thread for reference.

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