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Hawktitan's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 1,210 posts (3,368 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. 2 wishlists. 4 Pathfinder Society characters. 9 aliases.


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It would be an annoying two levels with only 1 panche point. If he had a larger block of GM credit I might agree.

You can have a small eidolon. The spells Evolution Surge and Enlarge Person to make it medium then large. Reduce Person to make it tiny.

He doesn't have the feat to do that.

Personally I think PA should be a feat that you try and get.

You don't want to hit like a wet noodle against uncritable creatures. When your precise strike feature doesn't apply then you do 2hand your weapon and go to town.

A wand of undead anatomy with UMD should work, nothing else specifically comes to mind.

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Penny Arcade reference?

Blackvial wrote:
here's a good question, does slashing grace allow you to use weapons finesse on the chosen weapon i.e. a Saw-tooth Saber?

With a level of Swashbuckler it would. Without a level of swash it works on two weapons that I know of - the whip and the Aldori Dueling Sword.

RaizielDragon wrote:
Ok, I gotta ask since I've seen it mentioned/referenced on so many threads: What's with the whole "don't talk about bastard swords on the forums" thing?

Threads like this make blackbloodtroll cry himself to sleep.

Note to BBT: Not meant as an insult, just humor

Here is my stab at it -

Eidolon gets 1 HD every level with saves progressing as such. Can be healed as normal and can't share life with the summoner. Doesn't share item slots with the summoner and doesn't go away when he sleeps. Gets Extra Evolution as a bonus feat every 4 levels. Gets minor magic as a bonus evolution at level 5, and every 4 levels thereafter, basic magic as a bonus evolution at level 6 and every 4 levels, major magic at level 7 and every 4 levels.

Summoners gets the ability to use summon monster and Aspect without affecting his eidolon.

supervillan wrote:
I like the idea of the wild shaped druid bamf-ing around using buffed-up natural attacks. The EK can achieve some of this using various polymorph spells but can't spend all day in a polymorphed shape and has a weaker base attack than the druid (until near level 20).

True, the wizard build would be more about using a weapon then natural attacks. A wizard/EK has the same BAB at 12 that a druid does.

Though you could make the wizard significantly less MAD by exchanging that level of fighter with a level of swashbuckler... inspired blade archetype and get the rapier equivalent of slashing blade that is coming up.... ok, I've convinced myself.

You could of course do this as a wizard/EK as well. I don't know if you are tied to the idea of a druid or just like getting the feat chain as early as possible.

7 levels of wizard
1 level of fighter
5 levels of EK

In fact this particular build is the only thing that has ever tempted me to build an EK over a Magus.

Yes it would, at -5 with half strength bonus. It's better if you specialize in natural attacks and if you go by RAW without retraining the earliest you can get those attacks is 13 and requires 4 feats.

Also I wonder if a sorcerer would work well for you. The Dragon Disciple prestige class works great for a spellslinger/guy who beats your face in.

Alternatively prestidge classing into EK may be something you look into for a wizard. Higher BAB and more feats.

Get the entire Dimensional Agility feat chain and outflank. I wouldn't do Transformation. And Enlarge Person? Pffft, at 20 you are looking at giant form or form of the dragon.

And to archetype him, I hope you either haven't played him yet, or the archetype changes something that you haven't gained yet, but it doesn't sound like you're in that situation.

It does and it changes 2 features. I could just make a new one, and I am sorely tempted, him but vast majority of my PFS games come from play by post, so leveling takes quite a bit of time.

I was mostly joking. I did however switch from a level 1 magus to a level 2 swashbuckler when the ACG playtest hit. It was probably a bad idea as it will now cost a boatload of prestige to archetype him.

You mean people don't all build 20 str 18 con barbarians with toughness feat before switching class at level 2?

It's fairly fast to train up an animal companion I believe, 1 trick per rank of handle animal per session?

That would be true if you were using Slashing Grace without a level of Swashbuckler. With Slashing Grace the weapon qualifies for the Swashbuckler's Finesse so you do get Dex to hit and Dex to Damage.

There is also Snake Style instead of Hamatulatsu Strike if you prefer.

And are you actually looking to use unarmed strike or just to FOB as a swashbuckler? What might be easier is to use the Slashing Grace feat with a Temple sword.

What did Rick ever do to you?

With a ninja/Swashbuckler build there are several things you can do to help your saves. First obviously don't dump charisma and Charmed Life will be helpful. There is also a new cloak that will give +4 resistance with Charmed Life (price of a +3 cloak).

There is also a couple of new feats that should help. Battle cry will give +1 to hit and allows a reroll of a save.

It is pretty niche.

The only thing that makes it more then 'meh' is that it's extremely hard to get a full rounds worth of sneak attacks without flanking. This is one of the ways to do it.

The only that is good about this is that dodge and mobility are prereqs for Spring Attack, so if you were going that route anyway and are a sneak attack user then it's not as painful to pick up.

Without the hide in plain sight ability I don't think you'd be fooling anyone. A wand of vanish might should work though, maybe with some slight of hand.

There are definately some items that would help. Alchemist Fires, tanglefoot bags, smoke sticks.

Then there are more expensive items, like a snapleaf or a toothpick of pyrotechnics. Again though, just by wealth this stuff is expensive, but in PFS they are viable buys with prestige points along with wands and higher level scrolls.

At level 9 you might be able to afford a runestone or two. I don't know if that helps or not.

In PFS at low levels you could get away with it, burning prestige points to pick up an assortment of level 1 wands. I'd imagine that it will get harder as you gain levels to keep up the appearance simply due to the wealth cost without an extremely generous GM.

If you had a GM that fed you scrolls and wands like candy then you could do it.

Bloodrager. There are plenty of bloodlines that will assist with what you are looking for.

Aberrant grants reach (more reach means less movement for spring attack)
Abyssal give enlarge person (see above)
Celestial/Draconic/Infernal give flight at level 12. Draconic gives a breath weapon to use at range.
Fey lets you ignore difficult terrain.

Bloodrager lets you use the all important Scorching Ray spell, and gets Fast Movement.

Ah, missed that line. Thanks.


This was brought up in the playtest, but there was there was complete silence on this as far as I know regarding the question. I'd love to play a draconic BloodRager/DD but as it stands now, meh.

Would swashbucklers with a bite attack get precise strike damage with a bite attack? I don't see anything that stops it. Natural weapons are considered light weapons as clarified by Paizo design team and it doesn't break any 'hand' rules (they are not using TWF, and they are not using the hand as a weapon).

Would make races that bite extremely strong swashbucklers. Also makes Eldtritch Heritage for the Serpentine bloodline quite interesting as well. (Eldritch hertitage for a bloodline that doesn't increase strength? Heresy!).

kvnireland wrote:
[...] Slashing Grace only applies to one handed slashing weapons (none of which appear on Weapon Finesse)?

There is one weapon it applies to for everyone - the whip. Kensai Magus' are probably having a field day. There is also the Aldori Dueling Sword.

It is however mostly a swashbuckler feat, but there is plenty you can do with the feat if you dip swashbuckler, including dex to damage TWF with light weapons (Well, sort of - see the Sawtooth Sabre).

I'm actually rather pleased that some exotic weapons may actually be worth a feat now.

Yeah, but the weapon itself it legal for PFS (unless I am missing something). For the record, you were probably thinking of Precise Strike. That can not be used with TWF.

It has to be a one handed weapon that you are wielding with one hand. Sawtooth Sabre is the only weapon that qualifies as a one-handed weapon for Slashing Grace and as a light weapon for TWF (with the exception of the Sunblade).

Here's an idea that I've been kicking around - basically it's a now completely legal two weapon fighting Dex to Damage build.

1 level of swashbuckler, 7 of ninja.

Weapon Finesse+ (Swashbuckler)

EWP (Sawtooth Sabre)
Weapon Focus (Sawtooth Sabre)
Slashing Grace (Sawtooth Sabre)

From here you still have quite a bit of room to mess around with too, 1 feat from being human and 3 ninja tricks, or if you use ninja tricks as feats it would be 3 feats and 1 rogue trick.

You could dump str unless you wanted power attack. Handy Haversack and possibly mithril chain shirt would let you deal with encumbrance.

Addem Up wrote:

Though... would the jacket work for anything but potions? Could my drunken brute soak his clothes in alcohol, for example?

I'd allow it, but if you are doing it for PFS you are probably better off looking at other options.

You will still need a wand or a scroll, but can do it without UMD as a half-elf if you give up favored class benefits.

Arcane Training: Half-elves occasionally seek tutoring to help them master the magic in their blood. Half-elves with this racial trait have only one favored class, and it must be an arcane spellcasting class. They can use spell trigger and spell completion items for their favored class as if one level higher (or as a 1st-level character if they have no levels in that class). This racial trait replaces the multitalented racial trait.

"LordKadarian wrote:
I think it is called piranha strike it works with light weapons.

Just a quick 'for the record' post. Piranha Strike works with light weapons and Slashing Grace only works with one-handed weapons so they are mutually exclusive.

Level 9 - Quicken Spell

Because you are a physical oracle and a quickened Divine Favor is yummy.

I'm curious as to what feats you would pick for a physical oracle at levels 3 and 5, assuming you did take the Wood mystery. The wood mystery doesn't feel like it pressures me to take Extra Revelation and Abundant Revelation feats as badly and since it doesn't, frees up feats for Power Attack and Weapon Focus.


Are you thinking that an Oracle without archery feats is going to be a decent archer with "wood bond" alone? I expect that neither build should be pulling out a bow (unless the build is made for archery, in which case I would still go with battle mystery over wood btw, for surprising charge alone, though nature mystery might be a tempting archer option with a mounted-archer tilt)

It's possible for any character to become proficient in a bow. My elf wizard was proficient in a bow. Archery in Pathfinder is very powerful if you build a character around it, decent if you devote feat slots to it, and pointless otherwise.

A 8-10 str wizard using a bow or javelin is not the same as a 18+ str character. The wizard is using spells with higher DCs due to having a higher casting stat and possibly feats taken to bolster them.

Also yes - I expect that melee oriented types have a ranged weapon of some sort. A longbow is typically the best choice but not the only one. I don't care if a fighter is a two-handed weapon archetype. He still should have a bow that matches his str rating especially in PFS when you don't know who your team will be.

Surprising Charge [...] It's SOOOOOOOOO much more than a pseudo pounce.

It is. I used the language that was used by the original poster but you are correct. Surprising charge is probably the best revelation that the battle mystery possess. You get abundant revelation for this - and probably a ring of revelation as well.

As far as mobility goes yeah there are plenty of options but there is usually a fairly hefty cost associated with it- either gold, level dips or actions. Still having good armor with no ACP or max dex is fairly nice. And as I mentioned earlier it's pretty hard to argue that Wood Armor can't be the target of Magical Vestment.

For the record I don't (and didn't) want to make the statement that Wood is hands down the best. I originally just wanted to present it as an option since I do feel it's strong but often glanced over and dismissed. And hey, how often does one get to debate Treantmonk :).

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1 level dip into swashbuckler and using sawtooth sabres with slashing grace is a pretty nice TWF style.

RumpinRufus wrote:
Is Power Attack worth it, do you think? At first it seemed like an obvious way to beef up damage output, but now I'm worrying that it's not worth the penalty that I'll take on Opportune Parry.

To answer your question, yes it's worth it. If only to beef up your damage when fighting against precision damage immune monsters.

That being said, a swashbuckler has more to lose then using power attack and having power attack be an actual decision instead of automatic is OK in my book.

I'd argue that a battle focused Wood Oracle would get Weapon focus early in his career. Levels 3 and 5 would be for Weapon Focus and Power Attack (order may vary).

Additionally Wood Bond affects more weapons so you aren't as bad if you switch weapons. Pulling out a bow isn't as painful for a wood oracle as it is for a battle oracle. If you are a elf, half elf, or in PFS any race with a trait to burn it's possible to become proficient with a bow.

Wood Oracles are more mobile, not having speed slowed when using the Wood Armor Revelation.

Battle mystery is a little more versatile, having more weapons to choose from with Skill at Arms, and pseudo pouncing is nothing to sneeze at, and if you want an oracle that specializes in maneuvers then it's the obvious choice. I would however say that if you are looking at an oracle that mixes it up in melee then Wood is a very strong choice and competes with other mysteries for top tier.

Take a look at the wood mystery. No, seriously.

A revelation that gives armor that gets basically gets as good as full plate, with no speed loss and no ACP and save yourself a ton of gold. Pick the Magical Vestment spell to get an enhancement bonus on it. Another revelation that gives attack bonuses that mimic full BAB.

Lets take a step back. You want to play a bat.

Some sort of bard that has invisibility and sonic spells. Scared of the dark? Find a way you get darkvision. Lots of races have it.

Also it sounds really annoying and antagonistic. The goal of Pathfinder is not to get other players to want to punch you - so just be careful on how you implement some of these concepts.

Another option at the cost of two feats is eldritch heritage. You have the charisma for it. You can make up for the feats by picking fighter, netting yourself full BAB out of the deal.

Though the simplest way since you are a magus anyway is probably the arcana.

Midas the Blood Alchemist wrote:
Yeah i get that, but what if i wanted to have a few just in my bag?

You don't 'just' have a few bombs in your bag. Bombs for an alchemist are less a mixture of chemicals and more an infusion of magical energy. Being supernatural they don't work in antimagic zones.

Here is the thread I made asking this if anyone wants to go over the arguments. And I didn't know this but it has apparently gotten necroed a couple times over the years :).

You killed my father. Prepare to die!

LazarX wrote:
A J Gibson wrote:

How does arcane strike apply to Scorching Ray?

it doesn't.

It does.

See! Just as helpful!

However I've actually posed this question before and while there was no 100% consensus most people did seem to feel that it works.

We have some League of Legends players here I see.

+1 for purple.

Sacred Summons needs to match the alignment of your deity, not the alignment of the caster.

And the following is my opinion from a player perspective only - please don't use negative energy variant channeling with rulership. I'm not saying that because it's not effective.... because it is, overly so. I would not find it fun in a game. /PersonalOpinion

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