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HangarFlying's page

Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 3,305 posts (3,311 including aliases). 1 review. 1 list. 1 wishlist. 4 Pathfinder Society characters. 3 aliases.


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Liberty's Edge

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Matthew Downie wrote:
Create Mr. Pitt wrote:
the condition and the term "no actions" strongly suggest no movement
No walking long distances, but not 'no movement' as in paralysis. That you don't lose Dex to AC says that in your mentally confused state you can't make any planned or complicated actions, but you can still respond instinctively - or reflexively - to danger.

So, would you say that if you are making a Reflex save, that you are in a Zone of Danger? Or, more concisely, that you are in the DANGER ZONE!

Liberty's Edge

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Having actually run the numbers for a similar discussion, a Kasatha using two greatswords is inferior to one using one longsword and three shortswords, and no one bats an eye at the thought of the second configuration. Greatsword away. The best combination would be to use four sawtooth sabres.

EDIT: Link to my post.

I guess I ran 2 greatswords vs 1 greatsword/2 shortswords. Regardless, the point still stands that running 2 greatswords is inferior.

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Technically, they're NPCs, though most, if not all, GMs just let the players control them.

Liberty's Edge

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You all do realize that this entire thread is irrelevant unless Tacticslion favorites all of his own posts, don't you?

Liberty's Edge

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Oh, dear God.

That said, there's nothing to stop TWF and natural attacks. So, I guess I would say that as long as your natural attacks isn't being made by an appendage that is part of the FOB sequence, go have fun.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The only things that don't get multiplied are extra damage dice from things like sneak attack or flaming burst.

Liberty's Edge

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Why don't we consider centaurs to be lamia-kind?

Liberty's Edge

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emirikol wrote:

New live link to this:

Linkified

Linkified the link.

Liberty's Edge

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James Jacobs wrote:
RogueMortal wrote:
Curse of the Crimson Throne also had a reference to Ghost Busters. Paizo was asked to remove it due to copyright issues though.
Actually, I don't believe anyone has ever asked us to remove content of easter eggs for copyright reasons. We HAVE removed several on our own though... mostly ones that crept into print from authors or even developers who thought they were being sneaky or cute but were, unintentionally (I hope at least) putting us in a position where we COULD get sued for copyright infringement. Which is why easter eggs tend to annoy me more than they amuse me.

Since we're all just having fun here, what was the Crimson Throne one?

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John Spalding wrote:

I took a crack at it and haven't found anything useful. I am pretty sure it isn't a book code. I have tried a bunch of core books and the ISWG.

Anyone have a lead?

Sent you a PM.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Do you enjoy hexcrawl type campaigns or do you prefer a story focused campaign?

Liberty's Edge

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Kthulhu wrote:
HangarFlying wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:
Stefan Hill wrote:
Power of Imagination
Ironically, soon the people who watch the show will be in position to spoil it for the book readers.
And do you think the people who watch the show will do as good a job of keeping the secrets?
I hope so. And by that I mean I hope they bombard book-only forums and take utter glee in spoiling the books. Much as many of the book readers have done through the entire series run (admittedly, with a lot more vehemence in the first couple of seasons).

You know nothing...

Fortunately, I don't frequent those sites. Though, I'll probably have to avoid Facebook, YouTube, TV, and people.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Kthulhu wrote:
Stefan Hill wrote:
Power of Imagination
Ironically, soon the people who watch the show will be in position to spoil it for the book readers.

And do you think the people who watch the show will do as good a job of keeping the secrets? Probably not. Sorry, but "the show and books are going to be different by that point" is nothing more than a pathetic excuse to try and make themselves feel morally superior, and justify them blabbing.

Liberty's Edge

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Lorathorn wrote:

This thread has got me to think and write. Here lies the result.

Linkified

Made the link a link.

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5e is a good game. I'm glad I decided to change my mind and buy it.

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Well, technically, yes, it moves, otherwise it wouldn't be a gust of wind.

Liberty's Edge

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@Kudaku Sometimes the truth needs to be said.

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I assume this is for PFS purposes?

Liberty's Edge

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In reality, the answer is "it depends on where the large creature is standing in relation to the corner and the target".

Liberty's Edge

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JohnF wrote:
HangarFlying wrote:
You can't take 10 if the DC is greater than 10 and you don't have any ranks in it.

Why not?

You aren't going to succeed at the check, but nothing says that "Take 10" guarantees success!

There may be times when you actually want to do this. If the check has a DC of 12, and there's a penalty for missing the check by 5 or more, then taking 10 means you aren't going to succeed, but you guarantee you aren't going to fail catastrophically.

Because knowledge checks are trained, if you don't have any ranks in it, if the DC is greater than 10, you can't make the check in the first place.

A crafty GM would still allow a character to take 10 in order to not give away the DC, but it would be an auto fail.

Liberty's Edge

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You can't take 10 if the DC is greater than 10 and you don't have any ranks in it. If you do have at least 1 rank, then take 10 to your heart's content...for that one time on that one knowledge check.

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Archpaladin Pardieu wrote:
Any info on when this will actually hit?

If by "hit" you mean "available for purchase", the top of the page says the PDFs will be available April 29th. It's a safe assumption that that will be the street date for the hardcover as well.

Liberty's Edge

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What level are you at?

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Well they're just really big zombies and skeletons, so meh.

Liberty's Edge

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Darkbridger wrote:

So even though Paizo has said they will be steering clear of kickstarter in the future, here is your substitute...

Buy out one (or more) physical copy of existing APs you want to see re-issued. You'll still have to buy the re-issue of course, and there's no guarantee it will even happen, but it's the next best thing (to direct feedback) to try and help along the chances of a particular re-issue happening.

In fact, the blog has a convenient list of potential purchase targets. ;)

Fortunately, I've already done my part and own both APs. Have you done your part? ;-)

Liberty's Edge

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The beauty of this discussion is a) that Paizo hedged their answer to this question a few years ago in such a way that there is a possibility that they would do another hardcover (however improbable that possibility may be), and b) if we fans raise up enough stink, Paizo will put out another AP hardcover.

So, really, the tone of this discussion needs to steer away from fantasy to reality.

Crimson Throne is the most logical choice (almost universally praised, 3.5, many volumes out of print).

Second Darkness is a good choice as well, though I think less as likely due to there being more available stock.

I don't know much about Legacy of Fire.

While there would be some good PFRPG AP candidates, they likely wouldn't even think about those until the 3.5 ones have been updated.

My 2 CP.

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Played on 03/21 & 22/2015

Spoiler:

30 Lamashan 4707

Late last night, Jakardros spoke with our party regarding a desire to reestablish communication with Turtleback Ferry. We agreed to stay on for a while to help with the Black Arrows' diplomatic affairs with the community. Additionally, Mudder, in what can only be described as a post-poison euphoria, became enraptured by battle-strategy discussions with Vale and beseeched the party to allow him to stay a bit to train on learning how to furiously focus, as the Black Arrows do.

I do not understand this concept at all. Just, you know, focus. Concentrate. Why fury belongs in this equation is unbeknownst to me. In fact, I would think that would impair one's ability to focus.

Ah, well. Perhaps dwarves have some sort of attention deficiency of which I am unaware.

Anyway, today has been a rather uneventful day. Aside from watching Mudder glower and swing about his lucern hammer, it has been fairly peaceful.

Oh yes, and so far, it does not appear Mudder has noticed his braid.

31 Lamashan 4707

Jakardros mentioned, almost in passing, that they were unable to find their commander's remains. We recalled coming across Lamatar Bayden's personal effects, and in them, some love poetry.

Because of the drizzly weather, I chose to remain indoors and study these poems for clues.

They're lovely, but unfortunately, they don't offer much other than a general location of where the lovely Miriana may be. She might be in the White Willow in the Shimmer Glens. Perhaps the maiden knows of his whereabouts.

When the weather is less dismal, we may set out.

1 Neth 4707

It still rains. Incessantly.

2 Neth 4704

This weather is atypical for this time of year. Why hasn't it cleared up yet? Yes, we often get rain, but goodness, this is nigh on a deluge.

Perhaps it is just this region of the country to which I am unaccustomed.

3 Neth 4707

Tordag is writing spells, and I find myself curious about his magic. Mine is inherent, just part of me. He explained once that his came from his deity when he prays.

But still, doesn't he just know them after having "learned" them once? It seems duplicitous to me that his Abadar takes away this knowledge that he allegedly gives.

I don't understand religion.

Mudder appears to have mastered the art of being furiously focused. Vale is apparently pleased with him anyhow. There was much hand-shaking and back-slapping. He still has not noticed his braid. I am enjoying this.

In other news, I believe this rain is magical mischief. It feels unnatural.

4 Neth 4704

Since the rain wouldn't let up, we decided to set out this morning.

Immediately upon our arrival to the ferry, there was a blinding downpour, followed by a resounding crack from up river. The dam had broken, and suddenly the town was flooding with water and terrible creatures were floating downriver.

We had managed to fight off a giant constrictor and save a group of school children from being crushed by their shabby old building when suddenly, a gargantuan alien creature shambled, slithered, and swam its way down river, attempting to destroy everything it its path. It essentially crushed the church of Erastil and seemed hell-bent on unleashing its fury upon the town until we made the decision to distract it.

That was a very poor choice.

Furtunately, the creature became weary of us, and the townsfolk mistakenly believed we had chased her off. We learned later that she was the Black Magga, a creature of mostly forgotten legend here in this region. She was speaking Thassilonian.

This is unsettling.

We have decided that the damage to this ancient dam, the disturbing reappearance of a mythic creature, and the unnatural rain are signs of a greater puzzle that must be investigated.

Unfortunately, the missing, lovelorn captain must wait.

On a positive note, while Mudder was incapacitated from his royal beating at the hands (tentacles?) of the Black Magga, I was able to braid the other side of Mudder's beard. He looks a bit like a walrus.

5 Neth 4707

What an interesting day.

We began by heading up to the dam, and we discovered the trail leading up to the stairs marked by skulls and skull runes. With a little help from a comprehend languages spell, I was able to read that the territory belonged to the Skull Taker clan of trolls. I was loathe to bring the news back to my party; despite his new dapper appearance due to walrus braids, Mudder (and Tordag, too, while we're at it) really, really dislikes giant kind.

I fear the blood will never fully wash from those braids. Ah, well. Perhaps blood has some conditioning properties.

Those dwarves just cannot be reasoned with regarding giant kind. When we arrived at the top of the dam and discovered ogres chipping away at the walls, they were both completely careless with their own personal safety. Fortunately, no one slipped and fell to his death.

Unreasonable dwarves.

I suppose, though, their fervor prevented further damage to the severely compromised dam.

After the ogre slaughter, we went to check out the tower located on one side of the dam. Inside, we discovered a nest of those SkullTaker trolls, and I earned myself some dwarven respect when I cast confusion on one of the trolls and caused two of them to fight each other. The dwarves just thought that was fantastic.

On an unrelated note, Mudder finally noticed his braids whilst we were in the troll room. He seems to like them, oddly enough. I overheard him muttering to Tordag and one of the two of them mentioned the word "stylized" which, quite frankly, I didn't even know was a part of their vocabulary.

Well, if it's style they want, I can absolutely give them that. If I could actually convince either of them to regularly bathe, I may be able to dress and style them fashionably and feel comfortable taking the two fo them out in public.

That is probably unfair. Tordag, I believe, bathes a bit more frequently. Mudder, though...Mudder seems to revel in wearing blood splatter. I think he views it as a badge of honor, especially when it's giant blood.

In fact, Mudder and Tordag both laughed at me later when we found the cesspit in which we located a water troll called Papa Grazuul. They allowed me to deliver the coup de grace since I had prepared a shocking grasp spell I hadn't been able to use during battle. Tordag called me giant killer, and Mudder teased me for wiping off my hand after having touched the noxious beast. In disgust, I asked him if he planned to bathe tonight. He laughed and asked "why"?

He was not laughing later when he was nearly beheaded by some sort of construct called a Skull Ripper. That thing was brutal. I am ashamed to say I ran away from it.

Twice.

At least this was deadlier and scarier than the Yeth Hounds we encountered back in Rova. It feels as though years have passed in these last couple of months.

The construct appeared to be guarding a control room of sorts. Unfortunately, none of us could figure out how to get the flood gates to open. It seemed as though the dam was missing its power source. When we traveled to yet another room in the interior of the dam, we discovered why.

The dam had been operating for decades—probably centuries—by drawing from the life force of two summoned creatures. One of those creatures had been reduced to dust. According to the other withered, frail creature, the first had expired more than fifty years ago. The devil (or demon—I can't keep the evil little things straight) pled with us for his release. We didn't want to do that and cause the dam's critical failure. Without two power sources, though, we weren't going to be able to power the dam.

Well, Tordag was all prepared to do the noble thing and jump right into the summoning circle, but none of us were comfortable with that given that he is our healer. Mudder had already taken a prodigious beating, so he wasn't going to volunteer, and Melda, well, Melda's not the volunteering type. I jokingly suggested we put Ascarthia in the circle as we could just call her back tomorrow. Of course, I was only partially kidding.

Because if nobody else was going to get into the circle, it was going to have to be me.

Now, I would not normally use the word "heroic" to describe myself. But truly, my actions earlier today were truly noble, selfless, and honorable.

Somebody should give me a medal or something.

Obviously, I didn't die. I did, however, feel noticibly weaker than I had earlier in the day.

+--------------------------+

5 Neth 4707 (continued)

Nearly immediately upon having drained some of my life force, we heard the dam rumble to life and the spillways open, releasing the pent up pressure from millions of gallons of water.

After reactivating the dam, we finished checking over nooks and crannies we had missed previously. We also went back along the original cave pathway we had seen at the start and discovered a guardian ettin. After having fought that dreadful creature, I can honestly say that this ettin was not a very good guardian.

Eventually, we made our way back here to the fort, a little tired but no worse for wear.

Tordag assures me he can restore me to my usual self tomorrow after he has rested and prayed.

Perhaps it is a good thing that Abadar gives even as he takes.

+--------------------------+

Players Notes: We will have rested and leveled up prior to the next day. Tordag is down one spell: restoration. We plan to go look for the captain.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Personally, I treat gauntlets as unarmed strikes that do lethal damage.

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Played 11-08-2014

Spoiler:

28 Lamashan 4707 (continued)

Upon our approach to the barn, we discovered a grim scene. Three of the ogrekin were toying with a deceased human male who'd had a post-hole digger driven through his groin. He was pinned in place, the poor man. One hopes the post-hole digger was used postmortem.

Also inside the barn, we discovered a spider. I can't do justice in words to the sheer immensity of this creature. It quite literally filled the hayloft/prison. I also cannot do justice in words to the sheer immensity of my hatred of spiders. Hatred is inadequate. I detest spiders. Loathe. Abhor. Despise. Abominate.

Consequently, I set it on fire—unfortunately, not before The Abomination did serious damage to our friend Mudder. Poor Mudder looked quite drunk. In fact, I don't even think I've seen ale have this effect on him. Not even the Hagfish water.

Perhaps the only way to intoxicate a dwarf is through poison. But I digress.

In the spider's hovel, we found Vale Temros, Kaven Windstrike, and Jakardros Sovark, imprisoned. Shalelu was quite pleased to find Jakardros, her step father. These three gentlemen were the last of the Black Arrows.

The Black Arrows laid to rest their fallen comrade by building a pyre for him. Then we set the barn and the house of fire.

It has been a good day for fire.

The gentlemen told us the fort had been completely overrun by ogres, so we decided to return to Turtleback Ferry to get the story of what happened to the fort and the Black Arrows. What we got, however, was rather unexpected. Apparently, Kaven was an instrument in Lady Lucretia's plot to overthrow the fort. He told us (under the influence of an elixir of truth) that he had become Lady Lucretia's lover, that she had asked him to get the tattoo, and that she had asked him to delay Jakardros's party in their attempts to get back to the fort. Consequently, it is probable that through his efforts, Kaven made it possible for the ogres to overtake the Black Arrows. Additionally, Kaven told us he had two accomplices who had been travelling to the Paradise Lost with him, but they weren't true conspirators. They hadn't been sucked into Lucretia's plot as Kaven had.

Jakardros, as you can imagine, was quite incensed. He told us that Kaven must be put to death according to the Black Arrow's laws.

Keven's execution will take place tomorrow morning.

It has been a long day. Before we rest Tordag must restore Mudder to his regular strength. I want to see whether or not Mudder realizes I have braided the right portion of his beard while he was poisoned.

29 Lamashan 4707

This morning, Tordag went to witness Kaven's execution while the rest of us went to find out if Lady Lucretia ever came in to Turtleback Ferry (as she told Kaven she would), but everyone in town seems to believe that she perished in the Paradise Lost fire. We believe she staged her own death and is continuing her nefarious recruitment of the greedy elsewhere.

On an unrelated note, but while I am thinking of it—Jakardros and Shalelu seem to be getting along better. I noticed yesterday that they were, for lack of a better word, chilly with each other. Perhaps they've had a chance to talk of some family friction? I am intensely curious to know what is happening, but social protocol does not allow me to ask. Hmmm.

Shortly after the return of the execution party, we set out for the fort. Mudder, Shalelu, and Jakardros went ahead as a scouting party. When we met up at the fort, we devised a plan. We made Vale invisible and cast fly upon him. Then we sent him into the camp with a campfire bead. He flew under a wooden barracks building whereupon he lit the campfire and subsequently set the barracks with a dozen ogres inside on fire. They all died. It would be sad if they weren't all planning to kill us anyway. Also, Tordag and Mudder seem to believe the outright murder of giantkind is something to be celebrated.

I think they're a little bit racist.

After today's encounter, I suppose I can understand why. These ogres are truly awful.

The ogres were everywhere. They had infiltrated the keep and were patrolling the outer boundaries as well. Fortunately, we had taken out their leader quite early, so he was unable to muster the troops against us. That made dispatching the rest of them fairly easy. I say fairly because there were some unusual ogre-folk amongst our combatants: barbarian, fighter, sorcerer. Usually ogres aren't so well trained.

One particularly difficult battle was in the hidden tunnels in the mountain behind the keep. We fought some sort of undead creature that absolutely resisted my attempts to halt him, which is unacceptable. Fortunately, Tordag was able to call upon his deity to smite the creature. There may be something to this whole religion thing.

Particularly troubling, though, was the Lamia Matriarch who disappeared on us. We suspect that she was, in fact, Lucretia from the Paradise Lost, but we have no way of knowing for sure. We were fairly close to slaying her, but she used her dimension door spell to teleport away from us at the close of the battle. We searched all about the fort for her, but she was nowhere to be found.

Jakardros and Vale decided to accompany us back to Turtleback Ferry. Perhaps they can recruit more Black Arrows there.

End of Session Notes

Tordag made his will saves against the negative levels from the thing we fought in the tunnels. We are leveled up and rested. Vale made one of his will saves, but not the other. Consequently, he has one negative level.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Oops. O.o

Liberty's Edge

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claudekennilol wrote:
HangarFlying wrote:
And the other important point being that you couldn't make that attack the same turn you cast the spell.
You can't make that natural attack or the unarmed attack that turn (in general, there are obviously ways around it). You still get the free touch attack from casting a touch spell.

Yes, I should have clarified what "that" meant.

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barry lyndon wrote:
HangarFlying wrote:

Quick question about the Skull Ripper and the order of operation with grapples and the behead ability.

So:

Round 1) Hit with claw, do claw damage, make grapple check, success, do constrict damage.

Round 2) Maintain grapple as a standard action, success, apply pinned condition, do constrict damage and claw damage.

Round 3) Maintain grapple as a standard action, success, continue pin, do constrict and claw damage, do behead special ability.

Does this sound right?

Does the attacker get to do constrict damage straight away on a successful grapple?

From this link, it seems like the attacker's turn is over after the grapple until next round

Linkified

Yes, because the constrict special ability states that a creature does constrict damage on a successful grapple check.

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And the other important point being that you couldn't make that attack the same turn you cast the spell.

Liberty's Edge

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Quick question about the Skull Ripper and the order of operation with grapples and the behead ability.

So:

Round 1) Hit with claw, do claw damage, make grapple check, success, do constrict damage.

Round 2) Maintain grapple as a standard action, success, apply pinned condition, do constrict damage and claw damage.

Round 3) Maintain grapple as a standard action, success, continue pin, do constrict and claw damage, do behead special ability.

Does this sound right?

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Other than the explicit instructions to make attacks in descending BAB order, I'm not really sure why this is being made into an issue.

The reality is that it doesn't matter. Attack with your primary hand first. Attack with your off hand first. Interchange between primary and off hand attacks. Who cares. It doesn't matter.

But, if you insist on being sticklers about it, since off hand attacks are "extra" attacks, a natural reading of the rules would imply that all of the off hand attacks would be made once the primary attacks have been completed.

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I'll leave this one up to GM discretion and call it good.

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Rynjin wrote:
Liz Courts wrote:
Tryn wrote:

Wouldn't it be more customer and company friendly to simply release the errata as .pdf once is ready? (Similar to patches/hotfixes for computer games)

Local game stores are also our customers, and invalidating their inventory on a just-released title is not good for them.

So...you're operating under the logic that:

A.) Nobody who shops at a game store has access to the internet.

and

B.) Releasing a document saying "These are the changes that will be made to the book" invalidates the inventory...which also benefits from the errata document regardless.

Not to be rude but I don't think you thought this statement out very well.

Releasing an errata PDF is a win for the customers. They can buy the first print, and still have all the necessary updates.

It is a win for you, because more people will be willing to buy a broken product with a fix than a broken product with no fix.

Nothing changes for the game store. People either buy the books or they don't.

I would rather have a book that didn't have to have a few extra pages of errata sticking out. If I knew that a new printing was pending, I would wait to buy it until I knew for sure I was getting was the most recent printing.

So, in this case, your desire to have this errata document before the next printing comes out means that I won't buy the product.

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Sweet! This works! Though, I do say that I think my chart looks cooler. ;-)

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I don't see why not.

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thejeff wrote:

Cards are an annoying solution. They work well at the table, when you've already pulled out the ones you need.

They're not helpful for looking through spells to choose them in the first place. They're really not helpful for changing your spells mid-session, since you have to search through the whole deck (likely not ordered) to find the ones you want.

If you have multiple spellcasters you can't give each one his own set of spells, unless you have duplicate decks or no overlap between the casters. Which means whenever you play a different caster, you've got to go through the selecting process again.

Probably simpler to just print out the spells you've got prepared/known. Except we don't yet have PDFs. (Are all the spells in Basic?)

And none of that helps picking spells in the first place.

That's fine. I can see the benefits, especially with new players and you can just hand them the first level cards. Less overwhelming. Something about having a physical card for them to handle seems to help.

No duplicate cards? Well what do you really expect? Of course there aren't duplicate cards. This, itself isn't something negative about the cards.

To the best of my knowledge, not all of the spells are in basic. Something like only 100 spells or something like that.

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Steve Geddes wrote:


What don't you like about them? I think they're a great solution.

I don't think he's referring to the cards.

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The bigger question is: is everyone having fun? If yes, then I'd say everything is perfect.

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thenovalord wrote:
Yeah those cards just fill the table we find and more importantly they don't list concentration as a spell parameter

Yeah they do, but it's not entirely obvious: those that list the duration as "Up to X rd/min/hr/whatever" are concentration spells.

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I cast fireball at the space directly behind the guy I actually want to target. The fact that the bead hits my intended target and then explodes is heretofore irrelevant.

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Petty Alchemy wrote:
I just want to be able to look up spells more easily. The spell organization in the PHB is terrible (why doesn't it say under the spell which classes get it and when?)

It's not horrible as it is, you just have to realize that you have to reference the class list and then look up the spell rather than page through the spell descriptions.

There is also this really cool accessory.

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Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Zelda Marie Lupescu wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
If the bead hits an object it explodes.
Right, I know that but if an invisible door still blocks line of effect, can you still target past the door, not realizing that the door is going to prematurely detonate the Fireball, or do you have to tell the player You cannot target that orc, but I cannot say why. You just can't. is what I am asking
No!! you let him target that orc! that's what illusion spells are for! for foooooolin' fools!

I am soooooo going to troll my players with this.

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I'm not familiar with Ebberon. Can you elaborate or describe what these are?

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Bandw2 wrote:

the gang up faq doesn't apply because we're not arguing you flank with a ranged attack.

you flank with melee, and then use your flank to trigger sneak attack dice on your ranged attack.

the constant misconstrution that we're saying ranged attacks flank, is really annoying.

they do not flank with ranged attacks, however the rogue can still benefit from flanking while making a ranged attack. you could use that one teamwork feat to get the +2 bonus to AC, and make a range attack that round. THIS is what i am arguing, that flanking doesn't end when you make a ranged attack, but you still flank via melee. NOTHING ELSE.

That's the rub. That you have a melee weapon in hand at the time you make a ranged attack is irrelevant. The discussion isn't about whether you provide flanking for someone else. Nor is it a discussion about whether two or more characters provide flanking for you to trigger an ability. It is a discussion on whether or not you are considered flanking when you make an attack with a ranged weapon.

But no matter. It's apparent by now that you're unwilling to see the argument from my point of view. I've said all that I can say on this subject, and I don't think there is much left to argue.

Go forth and game.

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The real question is "was this ever a question before the APG, UC, ACG, etc came out"? Because, to me, people are using things from these sources to muddy perfectly clear waters.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

You miss the first part of the paragraph that says "when in doubt..." When in doubt about what? When in doubt about your position to determine flanking per the first paragraph.

You are still making the 2nd paragraph to be more than what it is supposed to be.

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