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I agree. It is wrong, however, to be concerned with just using those stats. And that's what powergaming is.
@Te'Shen I didn't mean for you to take me litterally by quoteing that part. It is more of a, why do people dislike powergamers so much, even for those who aren't powergamers? Don't you like someone protecting the party so that you can go through the AP without dying? But it appears that there is a lot less dislike for powergamers than I thought.
Because they abuse the rules and only focus on winning. You cannot win at an RPG like that.
No I want a good, well rounded character with a personality, not a meat tank who only says KROG SMASH when asked something.
Also, do not mix powergamers with optimizers.
I like to put horror themes in my games, usually a "classy horror" but then I love to cut in with a particularly brutal and graphic scene. Shakes everyone up.
Also knight of cerebus syndrome is a very good thing to use.
As for violence, depends. I used to default to horrifyingly graphic descriptions of fights, but as I get older, it sort of feels like cheapening so I use horrid, graphic descriptions only on worthwhile blows (large crits, killing blows and spells).
Dumping stats just so that a character can put more points into another stat is very strongly discouraged in my games, if not outright banned. It falls within min-maxing which I consider cheating, sort of. So, yes, I will probably go out of my way to have that character's dump stat bite him in the ass more than it should.
If he dumped the stat for roleplay reasons, however, kudos to him.
I remember we were generating characters and our monk player really wanted his character to be stupid. Wise but stupid. We were rolling for stats and he rolled an amazing array. So he asked his GM to lower one of his rolls to 7. Because he wanted his monk to be stupid.
A damn good scene though.
I prefer REAL people, and REAL people tend to be complex.. with issues and concerns.. and darker corners of their minds, even if they refuse to acknowledge that portion of their mind...
Who says that real people cannot be good? My grandpa was a picture of decency. Everyone liked and respected him, he was always smiling, always nice and polite, he always had words of wisdom for me, but one day when five guys attempted to mug me while I was waiting to meet him, he beat them all nearly to death. Broke one guys knee and half of another one's ribs. Most of them had teeth missing.
Still would call him Lawful Good.
EDIT: He was 67 at the time.
Optimizers and power gamers are definitely not the same thing.
Optimizers make their characters efficient for what they want them to do while minimizing their flaws and weaknesses.
Power gamers look to make the most powerful character possible, without regards to game balance, other players or the game.
So number 2 is correct. Number one is a good player.
"someone who knows the rules of the game well and makes the most efficient use of them"
But that is not a power gamer. That is a person who realizes that he/she must contribute to the combat in the game in a worthwhile manner. One of my friends who always optimizes, also always delivers the best roleplay outside of combat, and , as he puts it "optimizes for everything", so to speak.
OOOOH neat. I'm gonna use that from now on. It's an awesome idea ^^
So, if they make a useless character, but it makes them happy, that's it? And if other PCs die because his characters was useless, that's ok too? Playing a character who "doesn't make all the right choices" is ok. I even encourage it. But not making useless characters.
And, I've noticed among the people I game with that those who make useless characters are always the ones complaining that someone is annoying them by trying to give them advice.
That's why I keep my player's sheets with me.
Let's see. We were playing a homebrew FR campaign, were all in our 19s or 20s (levels) and were pretty well known throughout the world.
There was not a single good character in our party, my neutral druid was the good-est of us all. But we were still pretty heroic, having saved two kingdoms and a lot of people, our methods weren't nice, but we got the job done.
We also had with us a phylactery of a powerful lich, who, for some reason, couldn't regenerate his body. So he was stuck being carried around by filthy meatbags and had only us to talk to. He didn't like us very much.
Anyway, there appears a great threat for the entire sword coast, particularly Waterdeep, and Khelben decides that he has better things to to than to save the world, so he outsorces to his "lessers".
Our drow fighter/warrior of darkness decides that we were taking too long and that speak with dead is a good alternative, so he gets up and hits her with his vorpal greatsword.
Little did we know that the woman was an epic level wizard who was the one keeping the lich from being able to regenerate.
The moment that sword struck her, her contingency activated and maximized time stop was cast.
EDIT: Oh and because we were playing 3.0 at the time, we were forced to use wishes and miracles to restore our characters to normal. Wasted a lot of resources on that one.
Still on the fence about the guy.
He's nice, friendly and he was on time (a big plus)
Artemis Moonstar wrote:
As for these 3 that you aren't inviting back... Was it just because you startled them with intelligent enemies, or did they actively state something that lost them enough points to fail the test?
Well, stating that fights should be nobody moving and just wailing at one another was a big red flag. But there were smaller ones sprinkled through the game.
One guy couldn't stop looking at his smartphone even when I politely asked him not to.
So yeah, I don't like either of them. Not just as gamers but as people.
Well I don't use tactics or 5-foot steps when attacking with mindless monsters. But orcs for instance will dig a hole in the ground and fill it with spikes. And cover it with branches and leaves.
I do tailor the extent and difficulty of those tactics depending on the player's preparedness.
I ran a game for some new people, as my screening process for assembling a new gaming group earlier today, and when I asked about impressions, 3 of the five answered that it was unfair that I played goblins and orcs so cleverly.
I believe an exact quote from one guy was "They should just run at us and not use five foot steps"
You having problems with players expecting mindless fights?
Well, we got into a big argument over the game.
It turns out that they are pretty much what I don't want in my players. They just want fights and loot. And they have been pretending to roleplay because they can't be bothered to GM.
I just packed up my stuff, told them that I don't want to play with them any more and left.
I guess my secondary group becomes my primary group now. We'll see how that turns out.
You know people. They play carbon copies of previous characters.
We have a guy, he likes playing rogues, which he plays terribly. And when he plays a different class, he plays it like a rogue.
Most others are the same.
One is a blank, another is a rigid psycho and the third is always a pun character. Bah, maybe I should change my gaming group.
Yes, I was very comprehensive, with a list of classes that were unavailable, as well as suggestions to refluffing the "eastern" classes that were available.
I asked them if they really wanted to play. Waiting for the response.
EDIT: also my dislike for anything eastern, and even more my outright hatred for wacky/pun/comedy characters is well known.
That stuff only works in movies and novels.
There is nothing wacky about a horror/mystery campaign. It was well emphasized in the guide, along with what kind of characters the campaign required.If they didn't want to play a serious game, they could have told me so beforehand.
Also I told them at the end of the previous campaign what will I be running. And the guide is pretty comprehensive.
Our previous campaign ended and I announced that I was ready to run again (I took a break from GMing for about 6 months to recharge my batteries). Players were all very eager to play.
So I e-mail them all my player's guide which I wrote. They all receive it and, I assume, read through it.
The gist of the campaign is a western setting, feudal, and a mix of horror and mystery.
What I get as character concepts?
A japaneze ninja who is also a mime, a tiefling fighter (even though planetouched are persecuted in my world), a kobold sorcerer and a goblin gunslinger.
Because people couldn't tell me "We don't like your campaign, run something wacky instead"
Welp, that's another 6 month break for me I guess. Burned me out in a matter of days.
I would tell you to relax, but that would probably just annoy you more.