Thanks for the quick response! :) I have been looking at Dungeons of Golarion for some time. I will put that on my wish list then!
Oh and has the Black Sovereign really been corrupted by the Technic League? I think he is only faking it to make them trust him. That's going to be the basis of my campaign anyway B-)
Sorry about the thread necro, but I just discovered Numeria and I love it! Being a big time fan of Dave Arneson's Blackmoor, this corner of Golarion is just perfect for me.
Besides the Pathfinder Campaign Setting and the Inner Sea World Guide, are there any books I should pick up for more quirky Numeria goodness?
Wow! Havent posted on these forums in ages, but this is awesome enough to bring me back! :)
I'd love to see more BECMI era modules done in this style. The only thing I miss from the module is a reference to Mystara. I dont mind that it is set in Golarion, but a nod to my favorite setting which grew from these modules would have been nice :)
Silver Princess would be very cool, as would Lost City.
I would say "check out the MMB", but I know you already do.
I already own hard copies of the two books in question, but I would like them to become more widely available and alot of people are asking for them. I might even get around to buying the pdfs myself, as my print copies won't last forever.
DudeMonkey, do I know you? :)
Any chance of seeing more TSR era pdfs from paizo? "Gaz10: Orcs of Thar" and "Wrath of the Immortals", both for Classic D&D are particuarly missed. Would having a fan who owns the product scan it and send it to you increase the chance of seeing it for sale? Or would this all have to go through WotC?
The one thing I will miss quite a bit (besides the names) from the old mags compared to Pathfinder is information related to the OOP settings. Campaign Classics articles and articles connected to old modules such as the Isle of Dread was a big factor in my buying of the mags, Dungeon in particular.
As I wrote in the Dragon forum, I am very sad to hear about this.
I will give Pathfinder a look, but I will miss the things you can no longer publish such as the Campaign Classics type articles...
Thanks for the good times Erik & Co :)
Eled the Worm Tamer wrote:
I am truly saddened by this. I hope WotC come to their senses. An online magazine could never replace what we got from these magazines.
Paizo has done an excellent job with the mags since they took over and I felt quality was on the rise as well.
I am particularly disappointed not to see the conclusion of STAP. Also, the Campaign Classics issues will be particularly missed... :(
I have to say I really liked this issue. It was different, refreshing, and for once I felt Dragon took its time to get into the depth of a topic, rather than just haste through a million cool ideas.
I never finished reading Perdido street Station, but now I think perhaps I should get back to it. I had no idea about Mieville being a self styled radical marxist, but that can mean so many things it hardly affects my opinion of his creations.
I am planning on picking up some of the races for my Mystara campaign. If I ever run an Eberron campaign, I might steal the whole city. Could be interesting.
I like theme issues. I like issues dealing with things that are different. Overall, I enjoyed it. I almost forgive you for cheating me off Mystara material in the Campaign Classics issue... ;)
In the Dragonlance mythology it is possible to be "too good". So the Kingpriest should be LG according to the DL definition of Good, but probably not by any other definition...
The Campaign Classics issue is one of my favorite things about Dragon these days. I liked the whole World Serpent Inn concept and it was nice to see settings like Kara-Tur and Al Quadim. Still, I really missed seein my favorite settings:
Sure, the Isle of Dread article can pass as a Mystara article, but with the STAP going on and no "Mystara" logo anywhere, I felt like something was missing. Hope Dragon will make up for it in the coming months! :)
Excellent map Ray!
For my Freeport Campaign, which may or may not move onto the STAP I have been trying to figure out who the main Naval Powers of the Sea of Dread are. I've been thinking the Minrothad Guilds as a parallell to the Ost India Trading Company, the Empire of Thyatis, the Five Shires (Halfling Pirates), Ierendi Pirates and Hule (Thanks Erian!).
I also like to drop in a few exotic Ochalean Ships, and ofcourse Alphatians.
Northern Reaches Viking Raiders are infrequent visitors this south, but offer occational fun.
Orc Pirates are also favorites.
Looking at the HW Pre-cataclysimic map the Oltecs lived just east of the Known World, though from my understanding of Mystaran history, they could probably be found all along the southern coast of Brun. Some may easily have found their way across from the Serpent Peninsula to northern Davania if we want to stay with that location. For Sasserine on Ierendi that would work easy too.
Ofcourse, Milennians or Nithians could also be used as ancient civilizations too, though that would change the feel a little.
Having finally gotten my hands on the first three parts of STAP, I'm inclined to substitute Ierendi City for Sasserine, myself. Cauldron is instead Citadel, on Honor Island. Rowyn is Hanni of Mage Marine, etc. I'm finding the fit to be pretty good.
As mentioned elsewhere, I think it can be useful for us to explore several different possible locations for the STAP (Other than the Isle of Dread itself, obviously), since different DM's will have different needs for their campaigns.
One advantage with using Ierendi as a basis is that it is closer to the Known World region. The locations you suggest are quite interesting actually.
The advantage of using Davania/Hinterlands is that this is a relatively undetailed region, which means we can use the STAP to flesh it out. Also, it seems like we can use the STAP maps pretty much as they are which is kinda cool. :)
Are there other areas of Mystara that could be considered?
I'm just looking at the map of the Hinterlands in PWA3 page 20, comparing it to the map of the surrounding area of Sasserine from Dragon #349 p78.
Looks like it would be easy to fit within the Thyatian Hinterlands part of the Jungle Coast. Im thinking Raven's Scalp would end up near Kraken's Cove.
Great additions to this thread erian. I am wondering though, is there any specific reason why you make AC 1000 Present Day?
Why not AC1010 or 1015 for that matter?
Interestingly the answer for this would set the presedence for the timeline for 3.5 Mystara..
Classic D&D Present: AC1000
Downside of having STAP begin at AC1000 is that we'll have it running parallell to WotI for those using that campaign. Also if you set it later, you could have AoW happening sometime after AC1000.
Any answer is acceptable to me, but it might be worth thinking about...
Having part of Savage Tide play out on the Savage Coast might be nice. But I hope the hole Red Steel/Red Curse/Legacy bit can be toned down a bit. Personally I thought the whole cinnabryl turning into red steel bit to be interesting but the legacies were too much munchkinism for my tastes.
They can easily be toned down. In fact in the original version from the Voyage of the Princess Ark, it was really only the inheritors who got the power. In a 3E version, I might allow it for non inheritors, but they would have to spend a feat on it or something like that.
But I bought the Red Steel boxed set for the rules on making Lupin, Rakasta and Tortle pcs more than anything else. Especially the Lupin. The fact that they got unlimited advancement in the Ranger class made me happy back then. Now in 3.5 their favored class is Ranger. Now if only there was a way to alter that prejudice against werewolves or delete it in favor of getting another feat...
Yeah, the SC races are great. :)
I know Dungeon 114 updated the Isle of Dread setting. Any chance that module X1 itself might see such an update -- perhaps as White Plume Mountain was done last year by WotC?
X1 really wasnt much more than the Isle of Dread setting was it? Most of the adventure ideas were expanded upon in the Torrents of Dread article in #114.
Ofcourse, anything involving the Isle of Dread or any of the other BECMI modules is of interest! :)
Another option would be to just place Sasserine on the Davania coastline. Perhaps east of Ravens Scarp, south of Ochalea? IIRC, the map from the PG has jungle around the edges of the city.
I think this is the best option! This way we can use Sasserine more or less as is and simply remove any Core 3E/Greyhawk references replacing them with our own Mystara goodness!
I'll try and get my hands on the PG ASAP. :)
Has anyone bought the STAP Player's Guide yet? I did and it's making me think that Sasserine should probably be put on the northern Davania coast due to the exotic pet monsters and such from Azure district. Perhaps it could be used for Garganin, Katellios or even Raven Scarp?
Hi Ray,I havent bought it yet, but I am planning to. I also think northern Davania would be the best location of Sasserine. I dont really know enough about those cities to know if any of them would be good substitutes for Sasserine. Raven Scarp is a meeting point for the Barbarian Tribes of the region isnt it?
What do you think of the Player's Guide?
James Jacobs wrote:
I'd disagree with that, actually. Sure, the DMG suggests it, but the Dwarf sets the precedance against it with his +2 CON and –2 CHA. Personally, I think the suggestions in the DMG about how to balance ability scores seem silly—I don't buy the theory that (with the excption, possibly, of CON) any one ability score is better than the other, since there are so many different character classes and each has different types of needs as far as those ability scores go.
I agree with this part. However, with the Core races there also seems to be a precedance that races dont get an ability score bonus to an ability associated with their Favored Class.
Steve Greer wrote:
This sounds really promising! I agree with others that it would be cool to see some appearance of Rakasta even if not as natives of the Isle of Dread.
The Phanatons are a cool race, I would love to play one myself, though I will probably more likely DM this adventure path.
I am also looking forward to seeing what will be done with the Kopru. This race has alot of potential, though the artwork from MM2 doesnt really do it justice!
Bruce Heard did something on phanatons in one of the Voyage of the Princess Ark series. Although not for 3E, there might be something on aging there, though Im not sure.
Edit: That was in Dragon #188 according to:
Shane H wrote:
I take this back. There are various models used by the more prominent online Mystara fans, though few seem to use the 1:1 model.
Shane H wrote:
Though I lean toward "keep it simple" in Mystara 3e conversion discussions, I feel that "36 levels" is an icon of Mystara. I feel that, at least for official NPCS, that it is most fitting to for one 0e class level to equal one 3.5e character level. This would result in having to select a whole bunch of feats and spells to fill out the NPCs' stats, but this is also true of other worlds' NPCs that were converted, such as Elminster. Since the 3.5e DMG (unlike the 3.0 DMG) includes epic-level progressions it is part of the core rules.
Having thought of this a bit, I am leaning towards using this conversion model myself. Although conversions will become more complex, but I like the idea of the powerful Mystarans becoming truly powerful, once again. :)
Shane H wrote:
Even though the "2.5e" Players/DMs Options series clearly laid out class progressions up to level 40, the 36-level progression of the 0e Mystara Reality was smooshed into 20 levels in the official 2e Mystara Reality (the one seen in the AD&D Mystara products such as the Karameikos and Glantri boxed sets and the later almanacs). Though the official 2e Reality is this way doesn't mean the 3e Mystara Reality must be. There would likely be other differences between the two realities, such as how 2e Mystara is a part of the Great Wheel and Spelljammer cosmology (some Immortals were mentioned in a 2e book about celestials...I forget the title...and the First Quest boxed set reportedly has a a Spelljammer tie-in for Karameikos), while in any official 3e Mystara Reality, it would likely have its own cosmology based on the Gold Box and WotI boxed sets (though any useful 2e Mystara bits could be merged in too).
Agreed. There is no reason why a 3E Mystara needs to bring in all the modified elements from the 2E version that indeed contradicted OD&D material. I dont think the 2E material should be ignored, since there is a large amount of interesting information within those books, but where things have been changed to conform to 2E reality, this can favorably be reverted back to its original OD&D form.
I have firearms IMC. It is set in Freeport, which has been transplanted into Mystara. The party recently visited the Isle of Dread too, so the Savage Tide should fit neatly into all of this. For this campaign, I went specifically for a Swashbuckling feel. And I felt we needed firearms to accomplish that. I like how the PCs draw two guns each, fire both, before dropping them, drawing his cutlass and dagger and dashing into melee! :D
Matrissa the Enchantress wrote:
And by "soft" class restrictions, I mean things like suggesting that Dwarves rarely have the necessary talent to become Wizards or Sorcerers and those few that do and choose to follow it through are seen as extremely strange and are often shunned by Dwarven society, or that Dwarves who hear the call of the divine are almost always called to be clerics of Kagyar who demands that they maintain a high level of secrecy about their status outside of Dwarven communities. Dwarves who publicly announce to other dwarves a dedication to another deity would likely find there to be an odd standoffishness from them when interacting in the future. Neither one stops a player from choosing to play a Dwarf Wizard or Dwarf Cleric of Valarias, it just makes the consequences of their choice a bit more interesting.
I think this is very useful. It goes into the setting rather than simply looking at the rules. Dwarven clerics of other Immortals than Kagyar will likely be considered outcasts in Rockhome. Dwarven Wizards even worse. Ofcourse that doesn't rule out the idea that there are undiscovered cultures on Mystara where this is the norm. Although not expressed in canon material, I think Alphatia would welcome such characters, perhaps even within Denwarf Hurgon. (Ofcourse, Orthodox extremist Dwarves of Denwarf Hurgon insist on Kagyar being worshipped exclusively ;) )
On the Voyage of the Princess Ark episode:
Bloody Root wrote:
Just thought I'd mention that the author, Bruce Heard is commenting on his article at:http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=291
Some Classic D&D/Mystara articles from Dragon were put out for free and can be accessed from here:http://pandius.com/dragon.html (Scroll down till you see links)
They are not Voyage of the Princess Ark episodes as such, but perhaps they are the ones you are thinking of?
By the way, I'd like to thank you for putting out the Mystara and Savage Coast material that you did for free back then, still available at:
It was a really generous present to the fans from TSR, and much appreciated! :)
Matrissa the Enchantress wrote:
Does anyone know how well these books did? I'm sure hoping there will be more products like this, especially ofcourse a VotPA collection, preferably just like Jenni describes it.
I asked Bruce Heard about his feelings on this some time ago, and IRC he said he would welcome such a product and would consider contributing to it if he was asked to.
Mike Griffith wrote:
Yeah, its way too long since the last Princess Ark story. I think the sidebars helped alot in reminding people who these people were though. Ofcourse, it would have been cool if they had included a map of the world for people who dont know much about the setting.
Overall I gotta say I like fiction, especially if there are some crunchy parts complementing it.
I have an old issue of Dragon with part of the Princess Ark story, and I like the way they set it up in journal format. Of course, not having read the original story, I felt left out.
Understandable, though I would have thought the crewmember sidebar helped a little at least. Fortunately, I have another remedy for you: Go buy the Champions of Mystara boxed set, available as a downloadable pdf from www.paizo.com . It collects most of the series, plus has more in depth info about the ship (including floorboards) and crew as well as two other booklets.
Seeing the Princess Ark back in Dragon made me want to go back to that box and having a read through the entire series once again!
The sheer amount of VotPA material in Dragon would be enough for a book on its own, though if including the other article series and splitting it into two books would increase the chances of it becoming a reality, I'm all for it! :)
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