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87 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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ewan cummins 325 wrote:

I ran a mini-campaign that combined my own notes, Numeria, Oerth's Blackmoor, and B4 The Lost City ( glacier instead of desert). \

It was a lot of fun.

Ewan! :)

Love the idea of using the Lost City in a Glacier environment! :)


Sorry about the necros. I will be nice from now on :)

I just picked up the Inner Sea Guide and absolutely fell in love with Numeria. A Numeria AP would be awesome, but I think an AP which touches on Numerian elements while the main focus is on another area would be a good compromise :)


Sorry Urzien! :D

Just trying to get that movemet started! :)

In the meantime I will simply use my old Blackmoor D20 stuff to expand the realm :)


Thanks for the quick response! :) I have been looking at Dungeons of Golarion for some time. I will put that on my wish list then!

Oh and has the Black Sovereign really been corrupted by the Technic League? I think he is only faking it to make them trust him. That's going to be the basis of my campaign anyway B-)


A Numeria AP? Count me in!

(Late, I know..)


Sorry about the thread necro, but I just discovered Numeria and I love it! Being a big time fan of Dave Arneson's Blackmoor, this corner of Golarion is just perfect for me.

Besides the Pathfinder Campaign Setting and the Inner Sea World Guide, are there any books I should pick up for more quirky Numeria goodness?


This is something I would like to see as well :)


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Wow! Havent posted on these forums in ages, but this is awesome enough to bring me back! :)

I'd love to see more BECMI era modules done in this style. The only thing I miss from the module is a reference to Mystara. I dont mind that it is set in Golarion, but a nod to my favorite setting which grew from these modules would have been nice :)

Silver Princess would be very cool, as would Lost City.


The lisence is coming to an end:


Another in a rather long line of WotC decisions of late that are making me depressed. I think they would make just as much money without trying to force people to play the latest edition...


DudeMonkey wrote:
I would say "check out the MMB", but I know you already do.


I already own hard copies of the two books in question, but I would like them to become more widely available and alot of people are asking for them. I might even get around to buying the pdfs myself, as my print copies won't last forever.

DudeMonkey, do I know you? :)


Thanks for your quick response!

I guess I'd better take this to WotC then :)


Any chance of seeing more TSR era pdfs from paizo? "Gaz10: Orcs of Thar" and "Wrath of the Immortals", both for Classic D&D are particuarly missed. Would having a fan who owns the product scan it and send it to you increase the chance of seeing it for sale? Or would this all have to go through WotC?



I'd love to see a Campaign Classics themed DC.

Also, I would still like to see a collected Voyage of the Princess Ark..


The one thing I will miss quite a bit (besides the names) from the old mags compared to Pathfinder is information related to the OOP settings. Campaign Classics articles and articles connected to old modules such as the Isle of Dread was a big factor in my buying of the mags, Dungeon in particular.


Yeah, thanks again :)


One of the things I really liked about Paizo was their ability to support the OOP settings. Other than a specific Greyhawk lisence, will there be any chance of seeing anything ala Campaign Classics issues in the future (in Pathfinder or elsewhere).


As I wrote in the Dragon forum, I am very sad to hear about this.
What will happen to Savage Tide? I thought that one was supposed to go on much longer?

I will give Pathfinder a look, but I will miss the things you can no longer publish such as the Campaign Classics type articles...

Thanks for the good times Erik & Co :)


Eled the Worm Tamer wrote:

Goodbye Dragon, gone you may be, but you will live on in my book shelves. It was this hallowed publication that kindled an enduring passion for Gaming in me. I may have drifted away from D&D when the editions changed, but you have always been with me. In the Characters your pages spawned, in the heroes you inspired, in the epics you helped me weave, you will be remembered.


I am truly saddened by this. I hope WotC come to their senses. An online magazine could never replace what we got from these magazines.

Paizo has done an excellent job with the mags since they took over and I felt quality was on the rise as well.

I am particularly disappointed not to see the conclusion of STAP. Also, the Campaign Classics issues will be particularly missed... :(


The neat thing about Cthulhu D20 is having stats for those creatures to throw into your D&D games :D


I have to say I really liked this issue. It was different, refreshing, and for once I felt Dragon took its time to get into the depth of a topic, rather than just haste through a million cool ideas.

I never finished reading Perdido street Station, but now I think perhaps I should get back to it. I had no idea about Mieville being a self styled radical marxist, but that can mean so many things it hardly affects my opinion of his creations.

I am planning on picking up some of the races for my Mystara campaign. If I ever run an Eberron campaign, I might steal the whole city. Could be interesting.

I like theme issues. I like issues dealing with things that are different. Overall, I enjoyed it. I almost forgive you for cheating me off Mystara material in the Campaign Classics issue... ;)


Delericho wrote:

Well, fair enough. Any chance you could comment on the "Kingpriest is LG" issue? Because it just strikes me as really wrong - he's the head of state of a totalitarian regime, backed by secret police and thought police, with the stated aim of committing genocide.

In the Dragonlance mythology it is possible to be "too good". So the Kingpriest should be LG according to the DL definition of Good, but probably not by any other definition...


The Campaign Classics issue is one of my favorite things about Dragon these days. I liked the whole World Serpent Inn concept and it was nice to see settings like Kara-Tur and Al Quadim. Still, I really missed seein my favorite settings:

Red Steel/Savage Coast
The Hollow World

Sure, the Isle of Dread article can pass as a Mystara article, but with the STAP going on and no "Mystara" logo anywhere, I felt like something was missing. Hope Dragon will make up for it in the coming months! :)


Just a correction to the above: Minrothad as a parallell to the _East India Trading Company_

Guess I was kinda tired last night. :P


Excellent map Ray!

For my Freeport Campaign, which may or may not move onto the STAP I have been trying to figure out who the main Naval Powers of the Sea of Dread are. I've been thinking the Minrothad Guilds as a parallell to the Ost India Trading Company, the Empire of Thyatis, the Five Shires (Halfling Pirates), Ierendi Pirates and Hule (Thanks Erian!).

I also like to drop in a few exotic Ochalean Ships, and ofcourse Alphatians.

Northern Reaches Viking Raiders are infrequent visitors this south, but offer occational fun.

Orc Pirates are also favorites.


Cthulhudrew wrote:
cthulhu_waits wrote:
In Greyhawk, the Isle of Dread and much of Sasserine has an Olman heritage. What would be an equivalent culture in Mystara?
I'd guess Oltec, rather than Azcan. The Oltecs are a related group (from which the Azcan originated), which are based on the RW Toltecs.

Looking at the HW Pre-cataclysimic map the Oltecs lived just east of the Known World, though from my understanding of Mystaran history, they could probably be found all along the southern coast of Brun. Some may easily have found their way across from the Serpent Peninsula to northern Davania if we want to stay with that location. For Sasserine on Ierendi that would work easy too.

Ofcourse, Milennians or Nithians could also be used as ancient civilizations too, though that would change the feel a little.


Mortis wrote:
Then again anything but those neutered catfolk ;)

They were neutered? Who is responsible for this?! ;)


Can't wait till I get my hands on this one!

Does most of the action take place in the City or does any of it take part outside? My only objection to B4 is that it was poorly integrated into the Known World, even with the B1-9 fix. I'm curious to whether this adventure adresses that...


Cthulhudrew wrote:
Having finally gotten my hands on the first three parts of STAP, I'm inclined to substitute Ierendi City for Sasserine, myself. Cauldron is instead Citadel, on Honor Island. Rowyn is Hanni of Mage Marine, etc. I'm finding the fit to be pretty good.

As mentioned elsewhere, I think it can be useful for us to explore several different possible locations for the STAP (Other than the Isle of Dread itself, obviously), since different DM's will have different needs for their campaigns.

One advantage with using Ierendi as a basis is that it is closer to the Known World region. The locations you suggest are quite interesting actually.

The advantage of using Davania/Hinterlands is that this is a relatively undetailed region, which means we can use the STAP to flesh it out. Also, it seems like we can use the STAP maps pretty much as they are which is kinda cool. :)

Are there other areas of Mystara that could be considered?



I'm just looking at the map of the Hinterlands in PWA3 page 20, comparing it to the map of the surrounding area of Sasserine from Dragon #349 p78.

Looks like it would be easy to fit within the Thyatian Hinterlands part of the Jungle Coast. Im thinking Raven's Scalp would end up near Kraken's Cove.



erian_7 wrote:

1000...Present Day

990....Sasserine Freed from Thyatian Rule by Hule Intervention
886....Orren Teraknian Overthrown with Thyatian help
636....Huleans from Garganin attack, destroying Teraknian's Arch
282....Sasserine Founded by Thyatian Pilgrims

Great additions to this thread erian. I am wondering though, is there any specific reason why you make AC 1000 Present Day?

Why not AC1010 or 1015 for that matter?

Interestingly the answer for this would set the presedence for the timeline for 3.5 Mystara..

Classic D&D Present: AC1000
Advanced D&D Present: AC1010
D&D3.5 Present ?

Downside of having STAP begin at AC1000 is that we'll have it running parallell to WotI for those using that campaign. Also if you set it later, you could have AoW happening sometime after AC1000.

Any answer is acceptable to me, but it might be worth thinking about...


FenrysStar wrote:
Having part of Savage Tide play out on the Savage Coast might be nice. But I hope the hole Red Steel/Red Curse/Legacy bit can be toned down a bit. Personally I thought the whole cinnabryl turning into red steel bit to be interesting but the legacies were too much munchkinism for my tastes.

They can easily be toned down. In fact in the original version from the Voyage of the Princess Ark, it was really only the inheritors who got the power. In a 3E version, I might allow it for non inheritors, but they would have to spend a feat on it or something like that.

But I bought the Red Steel boxed set for the rules on making Lupin, Rakasta and Tortle pcs more than anything else. Especially the Lupin. The fact that they got unlimited advancement in the Ranger class made me happy back then. Now in 3.5 their favored class is Ranger. Now if only there was a way to alter that prejudice against werewolves or delete it in favor of getting another feat...

Yeah, the SC races are great. :)


Tatterdemalion wrote:
I know Dungeon 114 updated the Isle of Dread setting. Any chance that module X1 itself might see such an update -- perhaps as White Plume Mountain was done last year by WotC?

X1 really wasnt much more than the Isle of Dread setting was it? Most of the adventure ideas were expanded upon in the Torrents of Dread article in #114.

Ofcourse, anything involving the Isle of Dread or any of the other BECMI modules is of interest! :)


derek_cleric wrote:
Another option would be to just place Sasserine on the Davania coastline. Perhaps east of Ravens Scarp, south of Ochalea? IIRC, the map from the PG has jungle around the edges of the city.

I think this is the best option! This way we can use Sasserine more or less as is and simply remove any Core 3E/Greyhawk references replacing them with our own Mystara goodness!

I'll try and get my hands on the PG ASAP. :)


derek_cleric wrote:
Has anyone bought the STAP Player's Guide yet? I did and it's making me think that Sasserine should probably be put on the northern Davania coast due to the exotic pet monsters and such from Azure district. Perhaps it could be used for Garganin, Katellios or even Raven Scarp?

Hi Ray,

I havent bought it yet, but I am planning to. I also think northern Davania would be the best location of Sasserine. I dont really know enough about those cities to know if any of them would be good substitutes for Sasserine. Raven Scarp is a meeting point for the Barbarian Tribes of the region isnt it?

What do you think of the Player's Guide?


James Jacobs wrote:
I'd disagree with that, actually. Sure, the DMG suggests it, but the Dwarf sets the precedance against it with his +2 CON and –2 CHA. Personally, I think the suggestions in the DMG about how to balance ability scores seem silly—I don't buy the theory that (with the excption, possibly, of CON) any one ability score is better than the other, since there are so many different character classes and each has different types of needs as far as those ability scores go.

I agree with this part. However, with the Core races there also seems to be a precedance that races dont get an ability score bonus to an ability associated with their Favored Class.


Steve Greer wrote:

Phanatons = check
Kopru = check
Ixitxachitl = check
Rakastas = nope

This sounds really promising! I agree with others that it would be cool to see some appearance of Rakasta even if not as natives of the Isle of Dread.

The Phanatons are a cool race, I would love to play one myself, though I will probably more likely DM this adventure path.

I am also looking forward to seeing what will be done with the Kopru. This race has alot of potential, though the artwork from MM2 doesnt really do it justice!


Anything new on this?

If a hardcover is something that wont happen for years, an unedited pdf collection of the existing issues (as Erik considered) would be nice to have as we wait :)


MaxSlasher26 wrote:

After waiting forever, I'm going to be able to play a phanaton (Dragon 339). However, I'm wondering how phanaton aging works. I've got it marked down so far that he is 6 years old, but only because I would guess that 6 is about adulthood for a phanaton.

Any official source contradict this?

Bruce Heard did something on phanatons in one of the Voyage of the Princess Ark series. Although not for 3E, there might be something on aging there, though Im not sure.

Edit: That was in Dragon #188 according to:


Shane H wrote:

Haavard wrote:

"I think the general consensus on converting Classic D&D characters to 3.5 is that you divide all levels above 10th by 2, so a 36th level character in classic would become a 23rd level character in 3.5."

I take this back. There are various models used by the more prominent online Mystara fans, though few seem to use the 1:1 model.

Shane H wrote:
Though I lean toward "keep it simple" in Mystara 3e conversion discussions, I feel that "36 levels" is an icon of Mystara. I feel that, at least for official NPCS, that it is most fitting to for one 0e class level to equal one 3.5e character level. This would result in having to select a whole bunch of feats and spells to fill out the NPCs' stats, but this is also true of other worlds' NPCs that were converted, such as Elminster. Since the 3.5e DMG (unlike the 3.0 DMG) includes epic-level progressions it is part of the core rules.

Having thought of this a bit, I am leaning towards using this conversion model myself. Although conversions will become more complex, but I like the idea of the powerful Mystarans becoming truly powerful, once again. :)

Shane H wrote:
Even though the "2.5e" Players/DMs Options series clearly laid out class progressions up to level 40, the 36-level progression of the 0e Mystara Reality was smooshed into 20 levels in the official 2e Mystara Reality (the one seen in the AD&D Mystara products such as the Karameikos and Glantri boxed sets and the later almanacs). Though the official 2e Reality is this way doesn't mean the 3e Mystara Reality must be. There would likely be other differences between the two realities, such as how 2e Mystara is a part of the Great Wheel and Spelljammer cosmology (some Immortals were mentioned in a 2e book about celestials...I forget the title...and the First Quest boxed set reportedly has a a Spelljammer tie-in for Karameikos), while in any official 3e Mystara Reality, it would likely have its own cosmology based on the Gold Box and WotI boxed sets (though any useful 2e Mystara bits could be merged in too).

Agreed. There is no reason why a 3E Mystara needs to bring in all the modified elements from the 2E version that indeed contradicted OD&D material. I dont think the 2E material should be ignored, since there is a large amount of interesting information within those books, but where things have been changed to conform to 2E reality, this can favorably be reverted back to its original OD&D form.


I have firearms IMC. It is set in Freeport, which has been transplanted into Mystara. The party recently visited the Isle of Dread too, so the Savage Tide should fit neatly into all of this. For this campaign, I went specifically for a Swashbuckling feel. And I felt we needed firearms to accomplish that. I like how the PCs draw two guns each, fire both, before dropping them, drawing his cutlass and dagger and dashing into melee! :D


Matrissa the Enchantress wrote:
And by "soft" class restrictions, I mean things like suggesting that Dwarves rarely have the necessary talent to become Wizards or Sorcerers and those few that do and choose to follow it through are seen as extremely strange and are often shunned by Dwarven society, or that Dwarves who hear the call of the divine are almost always called to be clerics of Kagyar who demands that they maintain a high level of secrecy about their status outside of Dwarven communities. Dwarves who publicly announce to other dwarves a dedication to another deity would likely find there to be an odd standoffishness from them when interacting in the future. Neither one stops a player from choosing to play a Dwarf Wizard or Dwarf Cleric of Valarias, it just makes the consequences of their choice a bit more interesting.

I think this is very useful. It goes into the setting rather than simply looking at the rules. Dwarven clerics of other Immortals than Kagyar will likely be considered outcasts in Rockhome. Dwarven Wizards even worse. Ofcourse that doesn't rule out the idea that there are undiscovered cultures on Mystara where this is the norm. Although not expressed in canon material, I think Alphatia would welcome such characters, perhaps even within Denwarf Hurgon. (Ofcourse, Orthodox extremist Dwarves of Denwarf Hurgon insist on Kagyar being worshipped exclusively ;) )


On the Voyage of the Princess Ark episode:

Bloody Root wrote:

Mystra wasn't even an interest of mine until the article. Now I'm really hoping that we see a good article or two in the coming classic campaign's about the setting.

Just thought I'd mention that the author, Bruce Heard is commenting on his article at:


seankreynolds wrote:

I coulda sworn that when I was TSR webmaster, the VotPA articles were some of the classic articles we were putting on the website for free.

I have no idea where those articles are now that Paizo is a separate company and the WotC website has shifted most of its closed-worlds content to fan websites, but I remember reading through scans of those articles for typos and such.

Some Classic D&D/Mystara articles from Dragon were put out for free and can be accessed from here: (Scroll down till you see links)

They are not Voyage of the Princess Ark episodes as such, but perhaps they are the ones you are thinking of?

By the way, I'd like to thank you for putting out the Mystara and Savage Coast material that you did for free back then, still available at:

It was a really generous present to the fans from TSR, and much appreciated! :)


Matrissa the Enchantress wrote:

A bit late to the party, but I just wanted to chime in with a hale and hearty "YES!!" for Paizo considering a VotPA (and KWG) hard cover compilation updated with colour illustrations and 3e5 Stats.

So here's to hoping the Shackled City and Dragon Compendium books did as well, or better, than they were hoping so that we actually have some ground to stand on! ;-)

Does anyone know how well these books did? I'm sure hoping there will be more products like this, especially ofcourse a VotPA collection, preferably just like Jenni describes it.

I asked Bruce Heard about his feelings on this some time ago, and IRC he said he would welcome such a product and would consider contributing to it if he was asked to.


Mike Griffith wrote:

I think it helps if you were a fan of the Princess Arc series to enjoy the story in Dragon 344 fully.

I used to read it monthly; sometimes it was the first thing I read in an issue.

That said, the shine is off for me. Too much time has passed and I think I forgot more than I remembered about the series.

Yeah, its way too long since the last Princess Ark story. I think the sidebars helped alot in reminding people who these people were though. Ofcourse, it would have been cool if they had included a map of the world for people who dont know much about the setting.

Overall I gotta say I like fiction, especially if there are some crunchy parts complementing it.


Nazgul wrote:

I just hope that this amazing Voyage of the Princess Ark article receives several sequels...

As any Mystara related material.

Yeah I know. I can't wait to see what happens to Haldemar and Empress Eriadna...

Damn you Bruce Heard! ;)


I'd say this sounds pretty good.

For those who dont have all the books you refer to (well not that many yet, but still), they should be pretty easy to convert: Spellthief=Wizard/Rogue, Merchant Prince=Rogue/Bard


Aberzombie wrote:
I have an old issue of Dragon with part of the Princess Ark story, and I like the way they set it up in journal format. Of course, not having read the original story, I felt left out.

Understandable, though I would have thought the crewmember sidebar helped a little at least. Fortunately, I have another remedy for you: Go buy the Champions of Mystara boxed set, available as a downloadable pdf from . It collects most of the series, plus has more in depth info about the ship (including floorboards) and crew as well as two other booklets.

Seeing the Princess Ark back in Dragon made me want to go back to that box and having a read through the entire series once again!


As far as the Wizards Three article, like many others, I miss Dalamar. The stories just aren't the same without him.



Maybe in a the future, Dragon could find a way to re-publish all the old Gord, Princess Ark, and Wizards Three articles in one big collection (HINT, HINT).

The sheer amount of VotPA material in Dragon would be enough for a book on its own, though if including the other article series and splitting it into two books would increase the chances of it becoming a reality, I'm all for it! :)


Phil. L wrote:
It certainly is a piece of "What-if" fiction set in Ed Greenwood's House (yes, the wizards are on Earth).

That's assuming Ed Greenwood lives on Earth ;)


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