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Madge Blossomheart

Gwen Smith's page

FullStarFullStarFullStar RPG Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Seattle. 1,613 posts (1,937 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 16 Pathfinder Society characters. 3 aliases.


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Davor wrote:
Technically, the Order of the Dragon ability doesn't modify the bonus that Aid Another grants, it adds to it. I've seen most DM's allow it to work that way, though I can understand concern. I'm currently playing a character built around Aid Another, and I was pointed to the Ring of Tactical Precision. That plus Gloves of Arcane Striking is about as good as it gets... unless you can grab the Harrying Partners teamwork feat to share with Tactician, because the only thing better than giving your ally a +8 to hit, is giving him a +8 to hit on ALL of his attacks.

The Order of the Dragon Aid Allies says "whenever an order of the dragon cavalier uses the aid another action to assist one of his allies, the ally receives a +3 bonus" (emphasis mine)

Helpful says "Whenever you successfully perform an aid another action, you grant your ally a +4 bonus" (emphasis mine)

Now, you can probably convince your GM to let them stack, but as written, they don't.

I do love the Harrying Partners feat: my Helpful Halfling cavalier is picking up that one next, and my Brawler/Holy Tactician paladin has that one her go-to list to learn as a move action (along with Outflank, Paired Opportunists, and Swap Places).

The best use I've seen for the Ring of Tactical Precision is the two characters in our area who used them as their in-character wedding rings: they each bought one, took different teamwork feats and then trade rings.

Trekkie90909 wrote:

I think the question will always require nuance; to handle the situations on the front page (repeated here):


Do the following prevent taking 10 while not in combat?



Perception (to locate a trap)

Perception (reactive check to locate hiding enemy)

Disable device (disarm a trap)

** spoiler omitted **

Climb is basically the same as swim; just with rockfalls, pitholes, unstable grips, and earthquakes replacing aquatic hazards.

** spoiler omitted **...

The rules have nothing to do with trained or untrained, or what level the character is. You can either take 10 on a skill in a given situation or you can't. The rules don't change if I have more ranks in the skill than you do.

If you want the "flavor" of your lower level characters failing more skill checks, just raise the DC so that taking 10 doesn't succeed. And it's highly unlikely that characters with no ranks in a given skill will ever succeed on a take 10 anyway, even if you don't artificially raise the DCs to prevent it. That mechanism is already built in to the take 10 rules.

2 people marked this as a favorite.

As most people here already said, as soon as the player announces his intention to attack an NPC, "roleplaying rules" are suspended and "combat rules" come into play.

"I take off down the street after NPC X."
"OK, roll initiative."

The rest of the party can choose to intervene (on either side), or they can just stand back and watch.

Side note: if this player decides to pull this kind of stunt on a regular basis, Improved Grapple, Improved Trip, or just trip with a reach weapon might be some options for the rest of the party to consider.

(There should be an "Improved Smack Upside the Head" combat maneuver...)

kestral287 wrote:
Agreed on Order of the Lion. Order of the Dragon gets actual bonuses to Aid Another, use that.

Stacking the Aid Another bonus from Order of the Dragon with the Helpful trait is dicey at best (since they both state a numerical value for the result). Most GMs I know won't allow it, but you might be able to get your GM to houserule that it works.

Of the two, Helpful is active at level 1, and the scaling bonus from Order of the Dragon doesn't beat it until level 14. So unless you're planning to play most of your career at level 14 and up, Helpful is a better bet.

The Honor Guard cavalier archetype gives you Bodyguard for free at 3rd level, and it increases the aid bonus to AC by 1.

You'll also want to look at the Benevolent armor and weapon enhancement. Maybe guarding, if you use a shield.

Though it's not directly Aid Another, additional methods of passing out teamwork feats might be interesting. If you go with a Bard, the Masterpiece "Battle Song of the People's Revolt" will give you additional rounds of teamwork feat sharing for your party.

The Archon Style tree is a nice trick for a martial aid build, but you'll need some feat investments.

And if you're willing to actually play a halfling instead of just being adopted by them, you can pick up Cautious Fighter and Blundering Defense.

Tabletop Giant wrote:

I think Father has it right. It's a small inconvenience to have to tote around a weapon for a martial eidolon, but I think that's the way it'd have to be.

Which makes me glad that they can't wear armor or we'd have poor summoners lugging around empty suits of full plate every time their eidolon is unsummoned.

And they'd probably want to invest in a wand of Swift Girding.

*** RPG Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Seattle aka Gwen Smith

kinevon wrote:

It was interesting, but, due to low player dice rolls, the party had issues with both encounters. Because of that, and the lack of anyone who can do their own healing, they had issues with damage. Monk did some yo-yo-ing, and was only up, during the final part, due to Bear's Endurance from the Summoner.

Took all three charges from the wand to get it to work. Once they finally managed to hit it, they did a fair amount of damage. It was just bad rolls to hit that caused the issues.

Do you mean that they burned charges from the wand trying to cast the spell in the wand? Or that they had to use multiple castings from the wand to make something else work?

James Risner wrote:
FallzQuick wrote:
but does it violate the unarmored part? or is force armor not real armor?

"1 bonus to AC" isn't "+1 armor bonus"

"providing a +4 armor bonus to AC." is not worn armor.

Keep in mind there is a minority contingent that asserts that everything that gives an armor bonus to AC is actually armor. I don't agree with them and a large number of others also don't agree.

FWIW, I've never run across anyone make that assertion in PFS play (which represents a fair quantity of GMs and players), so it sounds like a very small minority. (Also, mage armor is a spell effect, not an actual "thing" at all, so it isn't "worn" in any sense of the word.)

I think the question is less "is force armor real armor?" and more "did I purchase it from an 'Armor' table?".

Asking it this way covers Bracers of Armor: these are "worn" and they grant an "armor bonus". However, they are magic items, and do not appear on an "Armor" table anywhere--not even the "magic armor" tables. (Also, if bracers of armor carry all the negative effects as "worn armor", then they are waaaaay overpriced!)

But as always, ask your GM--that's the opinion that counts.

Reg06 wrote:

Is there any really good reason not to take the merciful enchantment? Like enemies can easily ignore nonlethal damage?

I have a level 9 barbarian who already has Vicious. The extra 1d6 is great, and dealing nonlethal makes a lot of sense for the character, and taking the damage from vicious as nonlethal would really help survivability.

The main reason NOT to take it is if you want another enhancement more. Since it's a +1, it will increase the cost of other enhancements. If you can't come up with another enhancement, though, then this doesn't really matter. (Though as a barbarian, you might look at the Furious enhancement first.)

Second reason I can think of is if it doesn't fit the character.

Rikkan wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

Consequences of failure do not affect one's ability to Take 10.

Take 10, is not Take 20.

That is not true. See this example in the FAQ:

Contact Other Plane: Can you Take 10 on the Intelligence check for this spell?

Having your Int and Cha blasted down to 8 by an extraplanar entity is a significant and distracting threat, therefore you can't Take 10 on that check.

So of your failures have nasty consequences you can't take 10.

There's an excruciatingly long discussion on this topic starting here. I'm not going to repeat it but the gist of it is that this FAQ on Contact Other Planes does not appear to set a precedent for other circumstances of taking 10, and even if it did, the equivalent danger required for "too distracting to not take 10" is rare.

Our lives would have been a lot easier had the developers just said "You can't take 10 on this spell because the DCs are low." Or if they had just added the errata text to the spell without any explanation.

Matai wrote:
So if I get the belt it is legal for me to get itwf? Thought it had to be the base score...not an enhancement...cause if the belt ever comes off its an illegal build isn't it?

It doesn't become an illegal build: you just lose the benefit of that feat (and any feats based on it) until you restore the belt. (I thought there was an FAQ on this, but I can't find it.)

Generally, Power Attack is not a good trade off for two weapon fighters: you take the full penalty on all attacks but only get half the benefit on your off hand.

With an 18 strength, I'd recommend Double Slice early on, and Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization are nice when you're using a double weapon (or the same weapon in each hand). You can pick up Weapon Specialization at level 4, assuming you have Weapon Focus.

(Is the Orc Double Axe also in Core? It's listed as being from Ultimate Equipment on Archives of Nethys, but it could have been reprinted from Core.)

I have a character who uses intelligence for intimidate. I have her throw out interesting facts about how fragile the humanoid body is or mention the likelihood that their superiors will think they talked to us anyway (so they might as well talk to us so we'll protect them), etc.

Orfamay Quest wrote:
Cap. Darling wrote:

In Real life there are no numbers and things like training, confidence, and a shower can do wonders for your personal magnetisme.

Actually, the training and confidence are a large part of what makes up the stat.

You have a low Str? Hit the gym and lift some weights. Low Cha? Take a few elocution classes and buy a better wardrobe. Low Dex? Grab a few exercise balls, or learn to play the guitar.

I'm not sure I understood what you meant here? Do you mean that the training represents putting ranks in the skill to overcome the low stat, rather than boosting the stat itself?

*** RPG Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Seattle aka Gwen Smith

Kevin Willis wrote:

But Mitch is right because
"Slashing Grace just adds Dex to damage for a 1-handed slashing weapon. Dex to attack is still reliant on Weapon Finesse. The Artist is using a Scimitar which can't be Finessed."

I don't think that's correct. Slashing Grace says:

"Choose one kind of one-handed slashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon"

Swashbuckler's Finesse says:
"At 1st level, a swashbuckler gains the benefits of the Weapon Finesse feat with light or one-handed piercing melee weapons"

So with Swashbuckler's Finesse, Slashing Grace lets you use weapon finesse with a single one-handed slashing weapon AND add dex to damage.

With regular Weapon Finesse, the dex to attack part of Slashing Grace doesn't work.

*** RPG Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Seattle aka Gwen Smith

Jessex wrote:

As a reasonably new PFS GM and player but with decades of RPG experience something about this subject has been bugging me. Specifically it isn't anything to do with paladins but with the perception that they are the only ones with alignment restrictions.

Every PFS character is under an absolute alignment restriction. They cannot be evil. That means something. I've seen parties discuss handing prisoners over to ghouls. I've seen a player argue that killing every downed enemy was required by their deity.

While neutral aligned characters are certainly allowed to walk the line between good and evil it should never be the paladins players who are having to greatly adjust their behavior to get along in PFS play.

Jessex, I agree that paladins are over-scrutinized in general while other alignment restrictions are largely ignored.

A large part of it, I think, is that paladins have a specific code in addition to their alignment restrictions. But it also seem like a large number of RPG players just have a strong dislike for paladins overall, and I'm not sure why. I've not heard anyone complaining about the lawful monks ruining their fun, even though the monk oaths are far more specific/restrictive than the paladin code. (Granted, monk oaths are optional, but a lot of characters take them and no one complains.)

BigNorseWolf wrote:

You can be a long jumper.

you cannot be a kangaroo.

Why not?

Or a more concrete question:
A certain scenario has a test where the PCs have to cross a pond by leaping from post to post. If I have the acrobatics bonus to make the DC and enough movement, why can't I cross three-four poles as a single move action?

Obviously, I can't have a running start after the first jump so the DC would double, but I don't see anything in the acrobatics skill description or the general movement description that prevents me from making more than one acrobatics check in a move action. Nor do I see anything that implies that making an acrobatics check to jump ends my move action.

Is there some text somewhere else that I'm missing?

(BTW, multiple acrobatics checks is how I would describe the "doing handsprings down the hall" movement in game terms.)

You might want to check with your GM before you plan your build around throwing an agile weapon.

Agile is on the melee enhancement table and contains the line, "The agile weapon enhancement can only be placed on melee weapons that are usable with the Weapon Finesse feat."

I can see a GM ruling that this line means you would only add dex to damage when wielding the dagger in melee: when you throw it, it becomes a thrown weapon, and the agile property ceases to function. I haven't crawled through all the precedents/similar text/FAQs yet, so I can't say how I would rule it personally, but it is a reasonable interpretation of the text.

(A really cruel GM could even argue that the agile property goes away completely if you throw the dagger, and you'd have to enchant it again. There's certainly less support for this interpretation, but you could make an argument for it. I would never rule that way, because I don't actually hate my players.)

(So far, the only way I know to get dex to damage at range is through the gunslinger class.)

*** RPG Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Seattle aka Gwen Smith

To the OP:
To clarify my earlier post (I was in a hurry), I don't see anything wrong with your interpretation of the paladin code. I think that you'll be fine if that's they way you choose to play your paladin. I was only trying to point out that you do have choices when playing a paladin, so don't feel that you have to be so restricted if you don't want to be.

The only time I've issued a warning to a paladin was when the player wanted to take an NPC ally's gear, tie him naked to his horse, and slap the horse to make it run home to the garrison...which was about almost a day the Worldwound... (He couldn't understand why I considered that to be "killing a helpless ally", much less the whole "you realize that's stealing, right?" argument.)

*** RPG Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Seattle aka Gwen Smith

Paladins aren't 2 dimensional paper cut-outs that all think and act the same, and I've yet to run into a PFS GM who expects them to be. A paladin's behavior is colored by the deity they worship, so my paladin of Iomedae is out smiting demons while the paladin of Shelyn is standing beside me trying to take them prisoner and get them to repent (we're playing Wrath of the Righteous).

All of these examples will easily be overrun by circumstances. For example, ambushes aren't inherently "wrong" or "dishonorable": police set up ambushes and even stings to capture dangerous criminals without getting anyone else hurt: are they dishonorable for doing so? And what if he has hostages? Are you seriously going to knock on the door and demand he fight you honorably instead of sneaking up on him and taking him down before he starts killing the people you're trying to save?

Really it comes down to this: do the rules say it is an evil act?

Figure out your paladin's code based on the deity you worship, and discuss it with the GM before the game starts.

*** RPG Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Seattle aka Gwen Smith

Jim, yeah, I think I'll play up the incoming fire and have him help the PPCs get to cover before talking to them.

And it was taking on the elephant with a swordcane that really badass. Or insanely foolish--I haven't decided which. :-)

Moving a small weapon up to medium sized will in most instances only get you 1 more point of damage. You have to be wielding a 1d10 small weapon to make it worth your while. (I play a lot of halflings, and this has been kind of frustrating.)

Mouser is an amazing debuff build, but it's not a primary damage dealer. If you want to deal damage as a mouser, you'll need concentrate on things like Piranha Strike and Risky Striker to increase your static bonuses.

DM_Blake wrote:

An incorporeal in the wall can use Stealth (it has total cover). When it attacks, it's first attack will automatically deny DEX (assuming the in-wall stealth check was successful). But now it will lose Stealth after that first attack.

If the opponent has total concealment (which it normally would if the incorporeal is attacking from inside the wall), then the incorporeal cannot use Sneak Attack (you cannot use SA against creatures with any concealment).

Archaeik wrote:
3)If it has Greater Blindfight and Shadow Strike (say a Ghost Rog5/Asn10), would it qualify for Sneak Attack while attacking from inside the wall? (Death Attack still requires an actual melee weapon attack)

This should work. Sneak attack away!

You might get table variation on this combo.

Greater Blind Fight says "you treat opponents with total concealment as if they had normal concealment".

Shadow Strike says "You can deal precision damage, such as sneak attack damage, against targets with concealment (but not total concealment)."

Technically, Greater Blind Fight doesn't change the target's concealment (just how it affects you), so I could see a GM ruling that Shadow Strike does not apply. I personally would rule that Shadow Strike applies, but the rules interaction is not 100% clear. Check with your GM before you rely on that combination.

TorresGlitch wrote:

Seriously, doesn't Jumping make you lose Dex to AC or make you flatfooted?

Climbing without climbing speed, flying without flying capabilities makes you lose Dex to AC, if I recall the rules correctly.
How is jumping not 'flying' through the air? (On the ground, you have something to use as a leverage tool for moving about and dodge, without wings/flight, good luck dodging.)
Eitherway, if hit while jumping, do you give an individual an additional acrobatics check +damage dealt to fulfill the jump or a DC10 fly check? (taking penalties for lacking flight etc, and loosing 10ft of altitude if failed.)

No, it doesn't.

Acrobatics covers three separate actions. The only use of the Acrobatics skill that makes you flat-footed is the first one:
"You can use Acrobatics to move on narrow surfaces and uneven ground without falling. [...] While you are using Acrobatics in this way, you are considered flat-footed and lose your Dexterity bonus to your AC (if any)." (Emphasis mine.)

The other two uses of Acrobatics, which are described after this one, do not have that text and therefore do not have that side effect.

Regarding the other movement you cite as a precedent: It has nothing to do with "how am I moving?" and everything to do with "what does the skill description say?"

Climb specifically says that you are flat-footed when you use the skill, just like the first use of Acrobatics does.

The Fly skill says "You are not considered flat-footed while flying". It doesn't matter whether you consider jumping to be "moving through the air", since you're not flat footed when flying anyway.

Don't forget that you get a +4 bonus for long jumps for every 10 feet of movement over 30, so your minimum jump check is 25, which will get you 10 feet forward without a running start.

Acrobatics checks are do not take an action, so there's nothing to prevent you from making multiple jumps as part of your move as long as you don't jump more than your movement. So "hopping" in 10 foot increments should work. Four 10 foot hops as a standing long jump will cross the distance in a single move.

You are not flatfooted when jumping, only when using Acrobatics to cross a narrow ledge or slippery surface.

(If you want to build a jumping character, 5 levels of monk for High Jump is really hard to beat.)

Actually, acid resistance will probably do the job:
"A swallowed creature can try to cut its way free with any light slashing or piercing weapon (the amount of cutting damage required to get free is equal to 1/10 the creature's total hit points), or it can just try to escape the grapple."

You should be able to do 1/10 a creature's hit points in 2-3 rounds, so you just have to survive that long.

A couple of ideas:
1) Negative energy channeler with a tattoo holy symbol. No concentration check, can't be disarmed of the focus, wouldn't harm your party from inside the creature. This has the advantage of being useful when you're not swallowed, also.

2) Grinding armor. "A swallowed creature keeps the grappled condition, while the creature that did the swallowing does not", so anything that automatically does damage to a creature grappling you would work. (And grinding armor is "barbs and burrs", which sounds like piercing damage, to me.)

3) Shirt of immolation. Depending on how you read this item, there is no activation action and it will continue to operate even after you're dead. That's 10d6+100 damage to the creature that swallows you. Bonus: you get to make heartburn jokes.

On the "just avoiding it" side, try boots of escape. I've seen these used to escape a creature's stomach.

*** RPG Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Seattle aka Gwen Smith

I think the specific line you're looking for from additional resources is this: "Misc.: all material in chapter 1 is legal except pages 92-99; "

The obediences are listed in chapter 1, so they are legal for play. Pages 92-99 contain the information for Lamashtu, so Gamerskum is correct that all of them except Lamashtu are fine.

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:
Does a cavalier's banner being attached to a spear or lance make sense to you? It feels to me like if you attacked things with that spear or lance you'd get your banner covered in blood and stuff. While some characters might go for that image, I tended to feel like standard bearers in real warfare didn't poke things so much as stand there and try not to get hit.

It doesn't matter if it makes sense: the rules specifically allow it. Feel free to change the rule in your home games, but it's not an FAQ because there is no question about what the rules say. (There are numerous other examples, like "fitting 5 arrows in a wrist sheath" and "reloading a flint lock pistol as a free action".)

Also, you can't apply "warfare" strategies and standard operating procedure to "groups of 4-7 individuals": it's a completely different world. A single squad would never have a standard bearer, especially if they were trying to sneak around or do any kind of covert mission.

*** RPG Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Seattle aka Gwen Smith

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:

What I would love to hear is why, in game world, would the Decimverate ever consider keeping someone in their private and voluntary organization to watch over them. Are you able to advise a reason why they would want someone looking over their shoulder and questioning what they want done?

Keep your friends close. Keep your enemies closer.

Same reason they organized unions: It gives you a method, procedure, and control over taking workers grievances into account rather than having them organize their own lunch mob.

Gotta watch out for those rioting workers throwing sandwiches at your factory.

ancientdm wrote:
everything posted so far makes sense but i cant seem to find a way to add it into my hero lab as an adjustment. I have a barbarian lvl 16 w 25 strength +7 weilding a +5 great axe with weapon focus greataxe +1 and a sacred bonus of +2 if i go power attack where does that put my damage bonus. currently according to Hero Lab (Pathfinder) I am +17dmg with my great axe. if i get the correct bonus I can make a Macro that will display it on the game ( Gaming on roll 20)even if i cant get it to show on Hero do i wind up with a +20 damage bonus or +18???

General note: Only Str and Power Attack bonuses are x1.5 for two-handed weapons; other damage bonuses are not multiplied. It's hard to tell from your example whether you were adding the +1 from magic before multiplying by 1.5. So the formula is:

(STR bonus x 1.5) + (Power Attack Bonus x 1.5) + Any other bonuses

Also note that at each stage, odd numbers round down. So a +5 Str bonus gives you +7, not +7.5.

In Hero Lab:
If you have the Power Attack feat, it displays as an option on the In Play tab. Check that box to turn it on and clear the box to turn it off.

If you have a two-handed weapon, Hero Lab will correctly apply the 1.5 str and 1.5 Power Attack and then add any other bonuses. This works whether you have the weapon equipped or not ("equipped" = "checked on the Weapons tab").

If you have a one-handed weapon that can be used two-handed, Hero Lab will not calculate the two-handed bonuses unless you equip the weapon in both hands (i.e., check both of the boxes beside the weapon). If the weapon is not equipped, Hero Lab displays only the one-handed values.

Does that help?

*** RPG Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Seattle aka Gwen Smith

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Quadstriker wrote:

It is disappointing to me that such directly conflicting information about the origin of the Pathfinder Society has now been included in the two replayable scenarios.

Wounded Wisp:
"It’s among Absalom’s most storied taverns, you see, and one that
holds a special place of privilege in the Society’s lore as the place
where the organization began."

Pig's Paunch:
“Can you believe it? It all started here years ago—well, over fourhundred of them at least. Under this very roof the Pathfinder
Society was born."

A saving grace may be to turn this into a running gag, and have a different assertion as to the true location of the founding of the PFS appear in every season.

I wonder if Dreng is thinking of "conceived" while Shane is specifically calling out "born".

There's a least a 9 month interval there, depending on your race...

No, they won't stack.

A nice option for small characters to demoralize in combat is the Enforcer feat: if you do nonlethal damage to a target, you can make a free intimidate check. If you pass the DC, you demoralize the target for as many rounds as you did damage. That way, you're not dependent on beating the DC by 5 to get an additional round, which makes the -4 for being smaller not quite so bad.

(Also, remember that it's -4 for being smaller, period. I think it was -X per size category in 3.5, because I've run into several GMs who think the penalty increases with the size category difference.)

*** RPG Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Seattle aka Gwen Smith

Darvozk wrote:
Just grabbed a +3 STR Darkwood bow. +4 ATK / 1d8 + 3 damage is way better than the +2 ATK / 1d8 damage Light Crossbow I had before...

Just out of curiosity, how is changing from a crossbow to a longbow adding +2 to your attack? Masterwork only adds +1, and your Dex and BAB don't change.

(I'm wondering if there's a cool trick I'm missing out on.) :-)

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Akari Sayuri "Tiger Lily" wrote:
Grey_Mage wrote:
In regards to the tiny mouser's simply moving into a square... I wouldn't want that to be used against me. Since it is untyped 4 tiny pixie swashbuckler could all UA swarm the same target and give the target a cumulative neg 12 vs any of them.

It's like a DIY swarm :) To make things more fun and make the target of this tactic cry, Teamwork Feats!

Circling Offense: Every time the enemy attacks one of you and misses, it provokes AOOs from the rest.

Improved Feint Partner: If one of your allies successfully Feints, it provokes AOOs from the rest, against which they lose their Dex bonus to AC. Normally feinting is a waste of action economy, but if you have Improved Feint to get Feint as a Move, you can Feint twice in a round and each time earn an AOOs for each of your allies.

Outflank: You're all adjacent to the target and each other, so you're all flanking. Bump the flank bonus up to +4, and every time one of you crits - more AOOs from the rest!

Paired Opportunists: +4 to attack on those AOOs you're spamming. It also permits all of you to get an AOO if any one of you does (with the caveat that you can't get multiple AOOs from the same thing), so this should allow the 4th tiny attacker to get AOOs at the same time as the rest with the above.

That's a lot of AOOs. Good thing tiny critters have high dex scores. You're unlikely to hit them due to the stacking penalties on attack, unlikely to AOE them due to high reflex saves. I guess to fight this you'd have to target Will, but there's also a teamwork feat that, when more than one of you has to roll against a Charm effect, you all get to take the highest roll.

Ok, ok, I promise not to make my GM cry by actually trying to bring this to the table :)

Oops. :-)

I have a teamwork feat/tactician build (Holy Tactician Paladin + cavalier + bard with Song of the people's revolt) who pairs with a mouser, specifically so they can get Paired Opportunists and Outflank running at the same time. It takes at least 2 rounds to get it set up (and all my feats have been dedicated to doing this), but it's pretty when we can pull it off.

But the only GM who's cried so far actually started when I shared out Swap Places as my teamwork feat: kept a horde of bad guys trapped in a corridor while we alternated stepping into the only square we could full attack from...

I suppose you could use Rapid Shot or Manyshot as prerequisites for other feats you wanted (like Stabbing Shot or Snap Shot) and skip the some of the prerequisites.

Manyshot does let you throw out an extra arrow without taking the iterative attack penalty, so I suppose you could pick it up without Rapid Shot for those corner cases when you want to shoot twice without the extra -2 for either Rapid Shot or flurry.

It might be theoretically useful for people who are multiclassing and not going all the way up the Zen Archer tree. (Level 7 is my favorite exit point for multiclassing monks.)

Or maybe Chengar's right and they needed more feats for the list and said, "Here, these have bows in them".

Those are my best guesses. Didn't say they were "good" guesses.

*** RPG Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Seattle aka Gwen Smith

We've looked at this a bit in our region, and here's what we've found.

There are only a couple of scenarios published each month, so the actual list of available scenarios won't be that difficult to keep up.

The biggest trick is getting the list of scenarios that people have played so you can determine who can play which scenario. Unfortunately, that's going to have to come from the players themselves, since the only "official" tracking of what scenarios players have played is their chronicle sheets. (The online scenario reporting is a useful resource, but it's not always up to date, and only players and Paizo admins can see the records.)

The second biggest trick is getting a list of characters by level. This will also have to come from the players themselves. Technically, if you can track the scenarios played down to the individual character (instead of just player), you could estimate what levels different characters should be, but there's always the issue of GM credits.

Our experiments resulted in a scenario tracking database where players can keep track of scenarios played by character as well as scenarios GMed and GM credit applied. It's a tool for the players, mostly, though, since there's not enough data in there (and consistently updated) to be useful for the store coordinators. Our area also does a lot of demos at conventions, so we end up with a lot of new players/walk-ins through convention season.

There are several different options for mustering tables:

We currently use a message board system to sign up for tables in advance: GMs post what they are ready to run about a week before, and players respond with what table they want to play at and which character(s) they have in tier. (Also, our GMs tend to include the list of their "always ready" scenarios in their signature lines, and long-time players who have limited scenarios left tend to include their list of "haven't played yet" scenarios in their signature lines, which helps to get things organized before game day.) Then, on the evening of the game, the store coordinator just has to handle walk-ins and players who had multiple options for tables (or sometimes no options for tables).

I know other groups use Warhorn and have good experiences with that, but we haven't had the best luck with it at our stores that have a high percentage of walk-ins.

I've also seen one group that uses Facebook events to schedule their games, but I don't know exactly how they handle their table mustering.

If the goal is to penalize enemies for attacking anyone else, you can look at the Mouser Swashbuckler archetype.

There's also the Knight's Calling spell...

Aelryinth wrote:

It won't work that way the same way Improved Natural Attack and Strong Jaw aren't going to stack, Gwen.

INA actually makes the natural attack BIGGER. It's still a virtual size effect, it really and truly is 'normal' all the time, but if you add Strong Jaw, they don't still operates off the base.

So, yes, you can add Bashing to a Spiked Shield. No, it doesn't stack with the spikes. They add a virtual +1, Bashing adds a virtual +2. So Instead of 2-12 you'd have a 1-8 dmg Spiked Shield...still an improvement, just not as good.


It seems really wrong that an FAQ about spells and effects would apply to a single mundane item that I can purchase from a gear table without alteration. It would never occur to me that those two things have anything to do with each other.

So if I buy an item called a "spiked light shield" from the weapons table, can I make it bashing?

I didn't change its size or apply an effect: I just bought a single mundane item.

Continue reading the section to the end, where it says:
"Ability Drain: Ability drain actually reduces the relevant ability score. Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to lose skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. Ability drain can be healed through the use of spells such as restoration."

Only ability drain reduces the ability score. Ability damage does not adjust the actual ability score, it just applies penalties based on how much ability damage you've taken.

Con damage can't kill you by itself; Con drain can.
Con damage does not reduce your actual Con score and therefore does not change how many hit points below 0 you have to take before you die.

Here's why it's confusing:
The ability damage text says:
"Diseases, poisons, spells, and other abilities can all deal damage directly to your ability scores." At this point, "dealing damage to an ability score" is not defined: we don't have any idea what this means.

It's the next sentence is where they define this new term and explain what that means:
"This damage does not actually reduce an ability, but it does apply a penalty to the skills and statistics that are based on that ability."

Until they give us that second sentence, "deal damage to an ability score" doesn't have any actual meaning in game terms.

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Lakesidefantasy wrote:
As to the original question, I believe the character who suffered the peluda's attacks would not be dead in the scenario presented. The character suffered damage to their constitution score rather than drain, so they would not die until -14 hit points.

I agree. Ability damage does not alter your ability score: it just imposes penalties, just like the description says: "This damage does not actually reduce an ability, but [b]it does apply a penalty to the skills and statistics that are based on that ability."

If the character had taken Con drain, he would be dead.
If the character had taken Con damage, he's still alive.

Note that Con damage will reduce your hit points, so you are easier to kill with Con damage. But they still have to get you to -(your actual Con score).

*** RPG Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Seattle aka Gwen Smith

wakedown wrote:
However, in full disclosure - I was told I would be turned away by GMs from the PFS forums if I showed up with a witch who claimed their patron was a fictitious deity, which is part of this thread's genesis.

As I read the other thread, the general consensus was that you couldn't play a cleric/paladin/inquisitor with a fictitious deity, because that's actually against the rules. I thought the witch was suggested as a workaround, because witches aren't restricted to Golarion deities, and witches don't necessarily know who their patron is anyway.

p-sto wrote:

The Guide to Organized Play actually gives a fair degree of latitude in cases where the rules aren't clear.


As a Pathfinder Society GM, you have the right and

responsibility to make whatever judgements, within the
rules, that you feel are necessary at your table to ensure
everyone has a fair and fun experience. This does not
mean you can contradict rules or restrictions outlined in
this document, a published Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
source, errata document, or official FAQ on
What it does mean is that only you can judge what is right
for your table during cases not covered in these sources.
And in my opinion the portion of dex to damage that says you do not get dex to damage any situation where you wouldn't get strength covers the off hand 1/2 strength situation and there is no explicit rule covering two handed weapons and dex. I'm perfectly comfortable ruling no 1.5 dex to damage in PFS until there's an official statement from Paizo to the contrary.

Oh, we absolutely do have the right to rule however you want when the rules are unclear. I'm just saying that we should make the ruling based on our interpretation of the text of the rule in question, like you did here.

Other posters were ruling based on a general "I just don't like it" attitude, which I don't think is the correct approach.

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ElyasRavenwood wrote:

Lots of people have differing opinions about wether Dex damage multiplies 1x5 times the same way Str does in the case of the unchained rogue's class ability.

As a GM, at my table in a home game I will say no It does not. I am not going to bother to quote a ruling. As a PFS GM I will also say no it will not. Unless it specifically is spelled out in a FAQ I will say no.

My reasonings are as follows, 1) the Str. score determines the amount of weight you carry and the amount of damage you do with a melee or thrown weapon (like a hand axe).

Comparably your Dexterity, with the unchained rogues class ability, determines your melee to hit and damage modifier, your to hit modifier with a ranged weapon.......and a modifier to your AC and a modifier to initiative.

I think that is more then enough for the Dex score to deal with, so no 1.5 modifier while wielded 2 handed.

There we are, that is my opinion and how I would rule at a home table or PFS table.

This is an interesting thread to read. I will enjoy reading what people have to post.

Feel free to rule as you like in your home games, but in PFS, we don't have the freedom to rule based on what we think the rules should be.

We are certainly allowed to rule based on what we think the rule says, but we have to ground it in the actual text used in the rule, in the text of similar rules,in precedents set by FAQ, etc.

If you want to rule that an unchained rogue can't get 1.5 damage on the 5 exotic two-handed finnessable weapons, you need to find some support in the text of the rule or in some similar rule.

The way I read the text, the unchained rogue's dex is used as a direct replacement for strength in weapon damage and functions the exact same way strength normally does (x1.5 on two handed weapons, x0.5 on off hand weapons, etc.).

Now, other instances of dex to damage has some specific way of excluding 1.5x damage from two-handing a weapon, either by requiring a light weapon or requiring a free hand or something. This version has no mention of that at all. To me, that says that the unchained rogue does not suffer from the specific restrictions imposed on the other variation.

Until there's an FAQ that says otherwise or someone presents a compelling argument for the alternate reading, that's how I'll rule.

Do I think that's how the rule should be? Doesn't matter, because that's what I think the rule actually says.

We're also talking about exotic weapons here: the aldori dueling sword, the elven branched spear, the elven curved blade, the spiked chain, and possibly the estoc (haven't read up on that one yet). So there will be a feat cost or racial ability investment (since rogues don't get all martial weapons).

Every other finessable weapon is either light (which can't be two handed) or specifically says it can't be used in two hands (rapier, scimitar in Dervish Dance feat, etc.).

Also, technically the aldori dueling sword is the only one of the five that specifically says you still get 1.5 times strength when you two hand it. Now, one would assume the others would also get 1.5 times strength, because they are specifically two-handed weapons that don't say that they don't...

*** RPG Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Seattle aka Gwen Smith

Ms. Pleiades wrote:
Heaviest dump stating I've seen was on a monk though. 7 INT, 7 CHA, ugliest, stupidest half-orc, and by far one of the most memorable PFS characters I've seen to date because of how well the player Role-played him.

I ran into a black blade magus with a tanked wisdom and charisma who role played it as the blade controlling his character.

I also ran into a 7 INT/7 WIS barbarian who played it as "Whoever is in the briefing room with me is trustworthy, and I will follow their instructions. And I will continue to follow the last instruction I was given until one of them thinks to give me a new instruction..." He was fun for me as the GM.

*** RPG Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Seattle aka Gwen Smith

Mirza of Osirion wrote:

One could assume that Signature Skill was a legal feat because of how its awkwardly worded.

They could have worded it as:
"Skill Unlocks: The Signature Skill feat is not legal for play."

Boom. Done. No discussion needed.

If only. If they did that, I guarantee that some GMs will rule that the Rogue's Edge does not work in PFS because it says right there that it's not legal for play.

As is often the case, the more you try to clarify something, the murkier it becomes. And these writers have to consider those few readers out there who will purposefully stir up the waters to get concealment from the murkiness. I can't say that I envy them in the least.

The only other one I can think of is Deft Strike (level 1 feature of the Aldori Swordlord prestige class), but that requires an Aldori dueling sword and a lot of prerequisites.

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Lunge is nice on a mount without reach. When you stop and attack with your lance, he can still get an attack in. (This is the only time I like Lunge, BTW).

Also, for an Intimidate build, remember that you are at -4 for being smaller most of the time. You won't have them shaken for more than one round. I suppose you could do the Intimidate feats on your mount, once he's smart enough.

And for a charge build, a wand of Feather step will be a must for your mount. Difficult terrain will completely shut you down. Tell your allies know you need the lane, but don't let your need for a charge lane completely shut down their builds/strategies.

I'm not sure how Dangerously Curious will make use of your Int--can you explain that?

*** RPG Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Seattle aka Gwen Smith

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Have you tried reading the blurbs for the scenarios? Often they will give you clues along the lines you're thinking of.

Things I've seen mentioned/asked with no one getting annoyed:
- Location of the scenario ("Are there any scenarios in Tien?")
- Recommendations of scenarios for a particular character ("I have a paladin of {X} who does {Y}: can anyone recommend scenarios he would enjoy?")
- Particular factions that come into play ("This one features the Exchange")
- Scenarios that feature specific NPCs ("Which ones have the Blakros's in them?") or specific venture captains
- Scenarios that are primarily investigations/spy missions

I think what you're asking is for is fine as long as you don't ask for specifics on the foes, spoilers on the plot, and/or details about the rewards.

It clarifies the intent that monks only don't have an off hand with his unarmed strike. The earlier text led to a very odd situation where you got full Strength when using a weapon in your off hand, but still took half the Power Attack bonus on that same off-hand weapon.

Moving all of the "full Strength bonus" and "no off hand" text to the unarmed strike section really cleans up the mechanics.

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