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Madge Blossomheart

Gwen Smith's page

FullStarFullStarFullStar RPG Venture-Lieutenant, Online. 1,488 posts (1,771 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 16 Pathfinder Society characters. 3 aliases.


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The other nice thing about tanglefoot bags is that they force a concentration check from casters and a fly check from flyers.

I have an archer who fires tangleshot arrows from a Distracting bow: nice way to ruin a caster's day.


Grey_Mage wrote:
My bad, I got off course since I only use combat expertise when already fighting defensively.

Thank you for mentioning that!

I had misremembered the restriction from Total Defense ("You can't combine total defense with fighting defensively or with the benefit of the Combat Expertise feat") and was incorrectly applying that to my characters that fight defensively.

This changes everything! Well, my AC at any rate. :-)


Then there's the issue that Combat Expertise gives you a dodge bonus, which doesn't apply when you're flat footed.

Unless he has Uncanny Dodge, it wouldn't work anyway.

*** RPG Venture-Lieutenant, Online aka Gwen Smith

Woran wrote:
BartonOliver wrote:

I understand that this is the uncommon compared to other places, but am curious as to why? Is this due to lack of play opportunities some places, players that don't stick around, lack of GM's who want to run high tier material, or something else? (Of course a combination of things is the most likely IMO)

(I'm not forgetting that some other places are having the same issue, where they are able to consistently run high level content or are even running out of it as noted above, more curious why some places are able to run so much of it and other places not nearly as much)

Big issue we have is that people want to play them, but the venue's we hold game evenings at often close relatively early. 5-9 and 7-11 tend to take up more time then a regular scenario, due to various reasons.

Its no fun to rush them.

So most often they get run at people's homes, or at game days, were you can take up two slots and ejoy the scenario to the fullest.

This is what we see, also.

Then there's issue of trying very hard to avoid spoilers in the seeker level modules. We would never just schedule Eyes of the Ten at our regular game days even if we had the time, because that type of story line is nowhere near as much fun if you overheard half of the plot at the table next to you. (We're already having problems with players just talking about the seeker arcs and spoilers getting out; as more players finish Eyes, we're trying really hard to make sure the experience doesn't get ruined for new groups.)


zanbato13 wrote:

The only problem is GMs severely impairing animals.

One time, my animal companion and I walked into a room. The first thing that drew our attention was a flying box that circled the room then went behind a table or something. I then fought with the GM about whether an animal of 2 Int. was smart enough to know that the tricks I was telling it to do (seek, fetch, hunt, detect) were at the obvious flying box. Sometimes, GMs would completely disregard RAW in the tricks, saying the animals were too stupid. A lot of what Detect says is completely rejected.

The "attack" trick is often misunderstood, because a lot of people miss the second part of it: "Normally, an animal will attack only humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants, or other animals. Teaching an animal to attack all creatures (including such unnatural creatures as undead and aberrations) counts as two tricks."

So if your hawk only had "attack" once, then your GM was correct. You might try telling the animal to "defend"--that way, if the flying box attacks, then the hawk will attack it back (unless it has some Unnatural Aura ability).

With "seek", yes your hawk would absolutely let you know that there was something moving around in the area, but it still won't attack it.

I wouldn't let you use "fetch" on any animate object or animal.

Are "detect" and "hunt" from Animal Archive or Familiar Folio? Those tricks are not showing up in the PRD search. ("Hunt" is listed as a general purpose training, but that doesn't sound like what you're talking about here.)

I'd recommend reviewing your animal's tricks with the GM before the game starts. If you get the GM to give you rulings in advance, you won't be caught by surprise when he rules something doesn't work the way you think it does. And you will be more likely to convince the GM you are correct when you're not trying to keep the game moving and he doesn't have 6 other things he's tracking in his head at the same time.

Also, by RAW, only paladin's mounts and druid's animal companions are run by the player. All other animals are technically NPCs that are run by the GM. Most GMs are pretty lax about that and let players run their own pets. However, if you start insisting that animals be run strictly by RAW, the GM should take over your animal completely.

*** RPG Venture-Lieutenant, Online aka Gwen Smith

thejeff wrote:
the proposal that started this thread was just to not auto kick characters out of Core for playing a non-Core game, not letting any non-Core character play in a Core game.

But if Core characters can play Standard mode and come back to Core, there is nothing to prevent a Standard mode character from sitting at a Core table.

If a Standard character sits in at a Core table, then the table just reports as Standard. The Core characters just promise not to bring anything back to Core at their next Core game, so they can continue in Core. There is nothing that separates the two campaigns any more.

The biggest problem with this is if somebody at the Core table already has credit for the scenario in the Standard campaign. Suddenly, they can't play this scenario, because the table is now reporting as Standard.

I think the most important thing we need to do is try to avoid the confusion in the first place. We're starting up convention season, so we're looking for ways to help make sure Core tables and Standard tables are clearly identified so that no player accidently loses a Core character.


Chess Pwn wrote:
I'm not seeing a problem since "when making a full attack with a ranged weapon" is fulfilled. Is he not full attacking? Are the darts not ranged weapons? Thus he can make an extra ranged attack, but all his attack rolls are at a -2. It doesn't even say all ranged attacks, but all attack rolls. As he has BAB 6 his routine would be 4/4/-1. If you don't think it works, can you explain what line in the rules you are seeing the restriction in?

The crux of the matter is how you interpret the phrase "full attack with a ranged weapon":

A) Is it two separate conditions ("You are taking the full attack action" and "You are using a ranged weapon"), and each condition is evaluated separately? If so, it would work, as long as you have fulfilled both conditions in the same round.

B) Is it a single condition ("You are taking the full attack action that uses a ranged weapon") that is evaluated as a whole? In this case, it won't work, because as soon as you switch to a non-ranged weapon, you are not fulfilling the entire single condition.

Now, if your interpretation is B, then you have to decide whether it counts that the weapon could be used at range (e.g. a melee/thrown weapon), in which case it would work, or whether all attacks during the full attack must be at range.

Regardless, you absolutely would take the -2 on the melee weapon attack, no matter what.

Do I think it's OP? No.

Do I think it should work? Well, combining thrown weapons and melee weapons explicitly works with Two Weapon Fighting, so there is precedent.

Do I think that's how the rule is supposed to be interpreted? Hm...not sure yet. Could go either way, but I'm leaning towards B with the melee/thrown restriction.

How do I think other GMs will interpret the rule? I'd say your chances are 50/50.

My recommendation? Talk to your GM. If you have multiple GMs to worry about, go with Two Weapon Fighting for the exact same effect with no rules question at all.


Charender wrote:
Byakko wrote:

Jokerm: how does that change anything I said?

Charender, Avatar: when you have to start making up rules, it's probably a pretty good sign that it's not core. While I'm all for creative GMing, and coming up with things on the fly, none of those ideas are strictly by rules.

In order to move someone you're in a grapple with, you have to make the "grapple to move" check. If either of you is moved away from the other, the grapple simply ends.

As has been mentioned, this isn't spelled out super clearly in the rules... but were you really hoping for perfect clarity when it comes to grapple rules? ;)

By RAW, the only ways to remove the grappled condition are

A. If the creature who initiated the grapple releases it as a free action.
B. If the creature being grapples breaks it using a standard action

No where in the RAW does it say that being moved away from the creature you are grappling breaks the grapple. So saying that the grapple simple ends is also not strictly by the rules.

The only thing in grapple that covers movement at all is the Grapple check to move as a standard action, so it isn't a stretch to use that as a base for handling this situation.

I agree, but you should add one more thing to your list, just for completeness:

C: If the creature being grappled is the target of a Liberating Command spell and then makes an Escape Artist check as an immediate action.

(Just to make sure no one jumps on your list of options and says, "Ha! You forgot Liberating Command! The remainder of your well-thought-out post is invalid!" Not that this would ever happen, but still...)


For the spider climbing mounts, is there a special saddle you have to have? I remember there being one in 3.0 or 3.5, but I'm not finding it in the PRD.


Hm...that's kind of tricky. Rapid shot says "When making a full-attack action with a ranged weapon,"...arguably, if you're using the katana, you're not making a full attack with a ranged weapon, since part of your attack is with a weapon that cannot be used at range.

Now, if you're quick drawing a weapon that can be thrown, you would have a stronger argument. You are making a full attack with a weapon that could be used at range (and therefore should qualify as a "ranged weapon), but you're just choosing not to throw it for the final attack. (If I allowed it, I would only let you do it on the last attack, though, because once you engage in melee, you're not attacking with a ranged weapon anymore.)

Dicey at best. Expect table variation.

Of course, if you're using thrown weapons you could use Two Weapon Fighting or Flurry of Blows for the same net effect. And nothing prevent you from throwing a weapon and then stepping in to take your iterative attack as a melee attack. (Actually, that's a great strategy for offsetting the -5 on the iterative attack.)


If you have Paladin 5/Swashbuckler 3, and you make an attack that qualifies for both "level to damage" abilities, you'll get 5 from the Paladin and 3 from the Swashbuckler if they don't stack. If they do stack, you still get a total of 8 (e.g., you don't get twice your level from either of them if they stack).

It only matters if you are making an attack that doesn't qualify for both abilities, I guess. For example, if you use Precise Strike without smiting, you would only get 3 if they don't stack but 8 if they do stack.


Rynjin wrote:

Bombs are not like spells at all. Bombs are like a Su scaling class feature.

Bombs are like Splash Weapons because Bombs ARE SPLASH WEAPONS

Bombs are weapons. Bombs are THROWN weapons. Bombs are Splash weapons. Bombs are THROWN splash weapons.

Deflect Arrows deflects those things.
[...]
Bombs are a Su ability. Su abilities are not spells. Period. They are not. They are fundamentally different things, hence why they are in different sections of the rulebook and as a whole have nothing in common with each other.

Bombs are not spells, because Bombs are a Su ability and Su abilities are not spells. It is as simple as that as well.

"Bombs share these superficial features with spells therefore Bombs are spells" is as meaningless as "Bombs share these superficial features with Bardic Performance therefore Bombs are Bardic Performance".
[...]
You are simply WRONG in likening Bombs to spells. There is no convoluted, tortured reading of the rules that makes a Su ability a spell. There is zero ambiguity here. You need only look as far as the name. Bombs (Su).

I'm not saying bombs are spells. I'm not saying supernatural effects are spells. I understand the difference, I really do.

I'm saying that when Deflect Arrows was written, there were no supernatural effects that functioned like thrown weapons. Therefore, the question "Does Deflect Arrows work against supernatural effects?" was never asked.

- Deflect Arrows does work against weapons.
- Deflect Arrows does not work against natural attacks even though natural attacks are considered weapons for many purposes.
- Deflect Arrows does not work against spell effects, not even those spell effects that are considered weapon for many purposes.

So, the question is, "Does Deflect Arrows work against supernatural effects that are considered weapons for many purposes?"

Regarding "Bombs just are weapons":
"Bombs are considered weapons" does not mean the same thing as "Bombs are weapons". It is much closed in meaning to "as if it were a weapon" than it is to "it is a weapon". (If one of my composition students used that phrase, I would mark it "[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word]weasel words" and "
unnecessary passive voice" and "awkward phrasing". In English, the only time you would use the term "is considered to be" instead of "is" would be when "it isn't, but you should treat it like it is".

If bombs are just weapons, why did they use an extra half of a line to hedge that description?


Rynjin wrote:
Gwen Smith wrote:
felinoel wrote:
A monk can deflect the bombs that an alchemist throws
Can you give a citation on that? I haven't seen that official rule.(I've seen the James Jacobs post that says it can, but that's not actually official, is it?) But I don't see anything that says how Deflect Arrows interacts with supernatural abilities, and it seems to me that a supernatural ability has more in common with a spell than a weapon.

Bombs are Splash weapons.

Splash weapons are ranged thrown weapons.

Ranged weapons (including thrown weapons) can be deflected by Deflect Arrows.

Therefore Bombs can be deflected by Deflect Arrows.

The "citation" is the rules text of everything taken together.

Your logic at the end is kind of faulty as well. Supernatural abilities have almost nothing to do with spells. You are thinking of SLAs.

The only thing Su abilities have in common with spells is that they stop working in an Antimagic Field.

And even if that were correct...a spell that functioned as thrown weapon could be defected the same way (such as Ice Javelins).

No, I'm not thinking of SLAs. I'm comparing three items that function as ranged weapons (e.g., you can use Weapon Focus with them):

- Ray spells
- Splash weapons
- Alchemist's bombs

Ray spells explicitly cannot be deflected by Deflect Arrows ("natural attacks or spell effects can't be deflected").

By inference, slash weapons can be deflected by Deflect Arrows (i.e., there is no explicit wording regarding Deflect Arrows and this category of weapon).

So we have two categories of ranged weapons, one that can and one that can't be deflected with Deflect Arrows. Since the Deflect Arrows feat was written before the funky "magic-but-not-a-spell" alchemist abilities came along, we can't expect any explicit text calling them out, so we have to determine which of these two categories alchemist's bombs belong in.

Bombs are like spells because
- They are a class feature, not a purchasable item
- The damage scales with level
- The save DC scales with level
- The alchemist has a limited number per day, and they automatically refresh each day
- No one but the alchemist can use them

Bombs are like splash weapons because
- They do splash damage

That's why I say that an alchemist's bomb has much more in common with a spell (that happens to do splash damage) than a purchased splash weapon. To me, the line in Alchemist's bombs that refers to bombs as ranged weapons ("Bombs are considered weapons and can be selected using feats such as Point-Blank Shot and Weapon Focus") is not any different than the various lines that designate a ray as a weapon for those same feats (Under Ray: "You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon", and under Weapon Focus: "Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for the purposes of this feat").

So not all ranged weapons can be deflected. Are alchemist's bombs ones that can or ones that can't?


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Sandslice wrote:


2. Ability damage, just like HP damage, does not have a "memory" of what caused it unless it explicitly needs to for some purpose (eg, if the damage can't be healed naturally.) Negative levels DO have such a memory, but they're a different case.

My argument is that a shadow's strength damage explicitly needs to be tracked separately because it is the only type of strength damage that can kill you. If we're supposed to track ability damage separately because one source might need a DC X Heal check to recover, surely we're supposed to track the "lethal" and "non-lethal" ability damage separately.

Sandslice wrote:
3. If a shadow's hit causes your current Strength to reach or drop below 0, you gain the Dead status; the status "remembers" that the shadow caused it for 1d4 rounds; if you still have it at that point, Create Spawn tries to resolve.

The problem is that a shadow can never cause your Strength to reach 0: it doesn't affect your strength score at all.

All a shadow can do is inflict Strength damage that equals your strength score. So a Bull's Strength (or rage) is actually better at fending off death from a shadow than Lesser Restoration: it's only a standard action, and the strength score boost is not subject to a dice roll.


Byakko wrote:

Jokerm: how does that change anything I said?

Charender, Avatar: when you have to start making up rules, it's probably a pretty good sign that it's not core. While I'm all for creative GMing, and coming up with things on the fly, none of those ideas are strictly by rules.

In order to move someone you're in a grapple with, you have to make the "grapple to move" check. If either of you is moved away from the other, the grapple simply ends.

So the next time we encounter a grappling monster (or even Black Tentatcles), all I have to do is Drag, Bull Rush, or Reposition my ally to get him out? He won't resist, so his CMD is really low (I mean, on top of being reduced because he's grappled). And it doesn't matter that I don't have the Improved {Maneuver} feat, because the combat maneuver only provokes from the target.

That essentially gives me an automatic "get-out-of-grapple-free" card as long as any single member of the party is not caught by the monster or Black Tentacles.

I can't imagine any GM letting me get away with that.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
tchrman35 wrote:
StabbittyDoom wrote:
That said, you are correct that Aid Another is not an attack at all, it's a special action that uses an attack roll, which makes it ineligible for combination with Fighting Defensively.

It's listed under the "Special Attacks" heading. And you do have to be 1) in threat range and 2) making an attack roll.

idk. Again, not tied to the tactic. Just thinking.

Every GM I've played with has allowed it. Your mileage may vary.

We usually go based on "If you get the bonus from your weapon or Bless or whatever, it counts as an attack."

*** RPG Venture-Lieutenant, Online aka Gwen Smith

Todric Callaster wrote:

Sweet! Given Andreas' comments, and this info, I think I know how I want to proceed. Much simpler to plan for a retrain focusing on longsword over rapier.

Yes, feats must be retrained, but with ACG, 1 level of swashbuckler, and Slashing Grace I ought to be able to make a decent Dex based fighter with a longsword.

Agile enchantment won't help me thoguh!

If you get Dex to damage through Slashing Grace, you don't need the Agile enhancement. Or did I miss a step?

*** RPG Venture-Lieutenant, Online aka Gwen Smith

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Stephen Ross wrote:
Ageis of Recovery $1500 (neck) Ult Equip +2 rst bonus on "second" saves, if less than 0HP heal 2d8+3 HPs [1 use {then expended}]. This will save your butt if you are not killed outright by a critical or awesome damage!

This has become a staple for any character with rage in our area. The text of Aegis of Recovery is "Should the wearer ever drop below 0 hit points, the aegis heals the wearer for 2d8+3 points of damage..." but it does not contain the qualification that "this can't prevent you from dying when you drop out of rage" that some other items and abilities do (can't think of the names at the moment). Because of this, most GMs in our area accept that when a raging barbarian goes below 0, the aegis can actually kick in before he drops out of rage and dies, even before the barbarian gets Raging Vitality.

Quote:
cracked Vibrant Purple Prism Ioun stone $2000 (none) PS Primer stores 1 spell level as Ring of Spell Storing minor (so you can cast it)! Rcc'd Librtn Cmmd, Cure Light Wnd, Vanish...

We usually put the spells that target "you" in these: Expeditious Retreat, Shield, etc.

Liberating Command is tricky: since this is cast at minimum level, the bonus to Escape Artist is only +1, which probably won't help much. On the other hand, you can't cast Liberating Command on yourself, so I could see a bard handing this off to a friend as a proxy caster in case he gets caught.


Sebastian Hirsch wrote:

I never considered this fact, but the fact that the entangled condition increases the DC 17 - the same the DC as the Strength check, which seems to fit a bit too well.

That said, I tend to use a lot ob tangleshot arrows, and the englangled condition is already pretty damn effective/annoying for the GM

Tangleshot is awesome against flying targets, since the tanglefoot bag requires flying characters to make a fly check.

For extra fun, my archer fires tangleshot arrows from a Distracting bow. Mr. caster, please make me a concentration at +5 to the DC.

*** RPG Venture-Lieutenant, Online aka Gwen Smith

2 people marked this as a favorite.

One thing I strongly recommend is to avoid the scenarios that introduce different mechanics until he's more confident. The ones off the top of my head that fit that category are
- Scars of the Third Crusade (investigation and awareness mechanics)
- Library of the Lion (awareness mechanic and search mechanic)
- Bloodcove Disguise (awareness mechanic)
- By Way of Bloodcove (awareness mechanic)
- The Disappeared (awareness mechanic and search mechanic)
- Assault on the Wound (mass combat mechanic)

Because these kinds of scenarios add new rules into the mix, they will probably cause more anxiety.

In general:
The best thing you can do to help your friend is to get him to be specific and focus on individual aspects of the game. If he says "I screwed this scenario up", get him to explain--specifically--what parts he thinks he screwed up. This is very, very important.

First, this should help break him out of the "all or nothing" fallacy (e.g., get him to recognize that "I screwed up the grab rules, the chase scene, and the boss spell list" is not the same thing as "I screwed up this entire scenario"). Often, just analyzing what specific issues he had will improve he confidence because he will usually discover that he far fewer mistakes as it felt like he made.

Second, he might not be wrong. When he examines the specific aspects he thinks he got wrong, he might find that he was right and his players were wrong. That should help boost his confidence, too. But if he just comes away with the general impression that he screwed up without analyzing what, specifically, he screwed up, he will never make that discovery.

Third, once he has identified the aspects he thinks he got wrong, he then has something specific to improve for next time. "I need to learn the rules better" or "I need to be a better GM" is not an achievable goal, because it's not clearly defined enough to know when he's succeeded. Phrasing a goal like that is almost a guarantee that he will fail and reduce his confidence even more. On the other hand, "I need to learn the grab rules" is something he can check off a list and say, "There, I've finished this thing." And that will help boost his confidence.

So, basically, get him to define three areas he thinks he messed up. Then help him pick one of those areas and focus on learning that aspect of the rules better. When he feels like he has a handle on those rules, pick a second area. And so on. Identifying and overcoming specific areas of weakness is the best way to build confidence.

Of course, he will never get to a point where he is perfect with the rule set--none of us ever will. But the number of areas he feels confident in will continually get larger and larger, and he'll always continue improving. Which is really the most anyone can do.


Canthin wrote:
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
You cannot use Ray spells with spell strike (without the right arcana) and melee attacks are not ranged attacks, so no.

If you were to use a ray spell with Spell Combat (cast before the melee attack) would the melee attack get the +4 bonus from the feat?

The ray would draw an attack of opportunity (unless you had Point Blank Master [requires Specialization (Ray)] or you started 5' away and took a 5' step after casting to become adjacent to the target) but gaining a +4 on your first melee attack may be worth it.

I can't see any reason that wouldn't work. I think that's great use of the feat.


My favorite teamwork feats:
Amplified Rage (double your rage bonuses to strength and con)--sure it only works if at least two people in the party have rage, but when they do, it's devastating)

Outflank (+4 on flanking, when you get a critical hit, it provokes an AoO from your allies)--pair this with someone with a keen weapon, and targets go down very quickly

Shake it Off (up to +4 untyped bonus on all saving throws)

Escape Route has already been mentioned. Paired Opportunists is not bad, but I find Outflank more generally useful (since it does depend on the target taking an action that provokes).


My buddy gets killed by a shadow. I cast Sanctify Corpse* that same round. He can't rise as undead for 24 hours.

We take him back to the temple and pay for a Raise Dead. He is alive, and his ability damage heals so that he is carrying (Strength score-1) damage (e.g., on a 15 strength, he has 14 strength damage still). That means that the damage done by the shadow no longer "equals or exceeds" his strength score. We don't have enough money left over for a Restoration, so he has to settle for a Lesser Restoration (say he heals 4 more strength damage, so he currently has 10 damage left) and several days rest.

The next day, my Sanctify Corpse expires.

You're saying my buddy still turns into a shadow?

If a shadow's ability damage persists past a Raise Dead and a Lesser Restoration, is there anything that can stop it at all? If lesser restoration doesn't help in this case, why would it help if you're still alive?

I mean, if a shadow does a total of 15 points of strength damage over 5 rounds, does anything else that happens during those 5 rounds change that? Wouldn't you still be dead no matter how many lesser restorations your cleric managed to cast?

*My cleric is gonna carry several scrolls of this from now on. Never thought about this spell much before this discussion.


I think you handled it fine.

The only issue I can see is that grappled creatures typically can't move, but if the grappled creature is also grappled by another creature that is larger and flying, I can see letting the "big and flying" guy win out. Especially if the gargoyle had enough strength to carry both of them while flying (watch out for encumbrance penalties on that fly check, though).

I suppose you could have the gargoyle and the player make opposed grapple checks (against the ally, technically), and whichever one gets higher would control the grapple, determine how the grappled ally moves, etc.

Regardless, the player would always be able release the grapple as a free action to avoid getting carried away...or maybe plummet to his death if he didn't think that option all the way through.


I don't like the Archer archetype: it trades out both Armor Training and Weapon Training, which are two of the strongest features of the class. (You have a high dex, and with armor training you can wear medium armor without wasting extra money on mithral. And Weapon Training is the main thing that keeps the fighter archer ahead of the Zen Archer monk in pure damage output.)

I also think its trade outs take too long to kick in--by the time you can do a ranged trip, most of your enemies are too large to trip anyway.

If you haven't seen it yet, check out the Ranged Tactics Toolbox for some nice ranged combat maneuver feats and "tricksy" shots.

I would probably go with vanilla fighter or potentially the Hooded Champion Ranger archetype. You can take urban as your favored terrain for a nice "Phillip the Mouse, who shoots you with a bow" feel.


Rycaut wrote:
But indeed Grapple is really really good as well - though at higher levels you will need a way to get larger (or some other way to effect larger creatures - and while grappling is very good against flying creatures you first have to get up to them - and have a way not to worry about falling yourself....

Actually, grapple is not size restricted at all. You don't even take additional penalties for grappling a larger creature...which is why my halfling tetori successfully grappled a gargantuan ooze-like-creature (we never actually identified it) in {Redacted} scenario. It was...somewhat epic.

A lot of people get confused because the grab ability (for monsters and 8th level tetori monks) is usually size restricted, but that's a completely different ability.

Logically, grapple probably should be size restricted while trip should not (for example, I find it much easier to trip over a cat than a horse), but by RAW, that's not the case.

But flying will definitely help.


Zhangar wrote:
Gwen Smith wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:
Oh yeah, I would also argue that being returned to life doesn't stop the spawn from happening. That happens regardless of anything else. In fact multiple deaths should cause multiple shadows.
Wait...are you saying that if someone cast a Raise Dead or used Ultimate Mercy during those 4 rounds, the character would still become a shadow? Or a shadow would spawn, just not necessarily the character becoming a shadow?

Huh. I wouldn't go with that interpretation at all.

BUT: If a person is killed by their own shadow right after a battle res, do we declare that the GM has won?

I was asking based on the comment "being returned to life doesn't stop the spawn from happening".

So if I drop Sanctify Corpse on someone killed by a shadow, drag their body back to town and get a Raise Dead cast on them, would they still spawn when Sanctify Corpse expires?

If so, what CR is a shadow, again?


I love the Dirty Trick maneuvers, too. We don't tend to see a lot of dirty trick builds in PFS because you can't control who your GM is a lot of times, and whether/how a dirty trick works is completely up to the GM.

I think grappling is one of the most effective debuffs in the game, right up there with Slow. A grappled character
- Can't move
- Can't take AoOs
- Can't do anything that requires 2 hands
- Takes a -2 to all attack rolls (except breaking the grapple itself)
- Takes a -4 penalty to Dex
- Needs to make a concentration check to cast any spell (DC = 10 + grappler's CMB + spell level)

Too many grapple builds focus on "how do I take this guy out?" My tetori's philosophy is "I'll hold this guy down while you take him out."

Grappling is especially effective against tiny creatures. Tiny creatures get a size bonus to their AC, but they take a size penalty to their CMB and CMD. They also use their dexterity to attack, so that -2 attack roll penalty stacks with the -4 dexterity penalty and nets them -4 to their attack rolls.

Honestly, if you want to do a maneuver build, consider a Brawler. Once you have Improved Unarmed Strike (free), Combat Expertise, and Power Attack, you can learn just about any combat maneuver feat as a move action.

Is this guy walking on two legs? Learn Improved Trip.
Got a scary looking weapon? Move action to get Improved Disarm, standard action to take it away.
etc.

You can easily focus on Dirty Trick or Grapple as your "go to" debuff and still have all the other options at your disposal, whenever you need them.


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
Human Fighter wrote:

This is my interpretation of how it works.

Strength score is 15, and you took strength damage from a poison so you have 14 strength damage. The shadow hits you for one strength damage, so you die.

I don't believe there is "shadow ability damage" or "negative energy ability damage", but rather when a shadows strength damage Su ability affects you, and your score meets or exceeds, then you enjoy the create spawn.

I disagree. The shadow ability says "this damage" (the damage from the shadow) must equal or exceed your actual strength score. No ability damage reduces your actual strength score, so the shadow still has to do the full 15 damage to meet or exceed your strength score. It does not say "this damage (plus any other ability damage you might have)" or "If a shadow's attack causes your total ability damage equal or exceed".

Shadow strength damage is super-special strength damage that can kill you. No other source of strength damage can kill you. If you don't track them separately, you are making that poison a lot more dangerous than it should be (by giving it the ability to kill you with strength damage), which is really unfair to the players.

Grammatically, you could make a strong argument that "this damage" refers to the damage from a single, individual shadow, but that would be pretty unfair to the shadows.

Having it refer to "the total ability damage done by all shadows in the encounter" seems like a reasonable compromise between those two extremes.


Abraham spalding wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:

Fair enough on the confusion. I didn't mean the end of the actual round, but that is what I said.

The more important part is when it ends -- which is to say the next round.

So if you died and got unlucky and it's 1 round until the shadow springs up the shadow still won't appear this round.

It would appear exactly after 1 round from the moment the character died.

The problem is that you missed what I was commenting too:

Shar Tahl wrote:


Round 1 - shadow drops character to 0 strength and they die per the shadow ability. 1d4 round timer starts on the shadows initiative with round 2 and goes through round round 5 potentially.

The 1d4 timer start immediately, not on round 2.

Oh yeah, I would also argue that being returned to life doesn't stop the spawn from happening. That happens regardless of anything else. In fact multiple deaths should cause multiple shadows.

Wait...are you saying that if someone cast a Raise Dead or used Ultimate Mercy during those 4 rounds, the character would still become a shadow? Or a shadow would spawn, just not necessarily the character becoming a shadow?


_Ozy_ wrote:
Also, some spells and special abilities operate in the 'meta gaming' realm. I would put most rerolling in this category.

I would put many uses of Aid Another in this category as well (specifically Bodyguard), not to mention Readying an Action.

I run a Bodyguard character with 3 AoOs a round. It's very common for this character to say something like, "OK, that monster has 2 claws, a bite, and a tail stinger. I know the bite does more damage, and the tail has poison, so I want to let the first two attacks go by then use Bodyguard to aid my friend's AC against the last two." I've yet to have a GM suggest that this is not possible or somehow not how Bodyguard is supposed to work.

But to do that, I have to be able to interrupt the monster's full attack action to perform the Aid Another action. Nothing in Bodyguard specifically gives me the ability to interrupt a full attack. It seems like if I can interrupt the monster's full attack, I should be able to ready an action to interrupt my friend's full attack.

I can't come up with a situation where I wouldn't allow someone with a readied action to interrupt an enemy's full attack if the trigger occurred in the middle of that full attack.


StabbittyDoom wrote:
Gwen Smith wrote:
StabbittyDoom wrote:
Soha wrote:

I personally think it would work for the following reasons:

1. After declaring a full round attack action, after the first attack, the player has the option to change the rest of the attack to a move action. So there is an implied move action that is a part of a full round action.
2. The Core Rule Book explicitly states, "If the triggered action is part of another character's activities, you interrupt the other character."
3. There are feats that also interrupt full round actions - like Seize the Moment - an allies critical threat allows you an attack of opportunity (Stabbitty Doom, I believe that counters what you said about an interrupt between a roll to attack and a roll to damage); Improved Feint Partner - when ally successfully hits you gain an attack of opportunity. Attacks of opportunity always go off immediately before the next attack.

Wording needs to be carefully considered when stating your readied action and very specific. Personally I would state the following: I ready to Aid Joe Blow's second attack on his turn.

The "simultaneous events" thing isn't because the rules explicitly state that, but because it's implied that the readied condition must be something you can perceive, and perception-wise there isn't (to my knowledge) a difference between a successful attack roll and its damage roll. Other abilities, such as that feat, are totally allowed to break that rule and do so quite often. If you can perceive it, you can ready based on it :).

There are several spells and abilities that allow you to add to a roll or force a roll to be redone after the results are known. If it's not possible to perceive the difference between a successful attack roll and an unsuccessful one, then spells like Timely Inspiration can't exist.

But Timely Inspiration does exist, so there must be some way to know whether a roll has missed or hit.

Missed or hit, yes. But you can't perceive the difference between hit and damage. They happen at the same time. I never argued you couldn't tell the difference between a hit and a miss :P

Then I've completely missed a step. Aid another can't have any impact on the damage roll, so how is that relevant at all?

"I ready an action to aid another if my partner misses." Where does the damage fit in here?

*** RPG Venture-Lieutenant, Online aka Gwen Smith

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Rushley son of Halum wrote:

Recently played a scenario, a few actually, where the Aspis were portrayed as just very successful merchants essentially.

We blew up their warehouse. So with this in mind, and the attitude of many pathfinders.... are we the bad guys here? Because not gonna lie, we seem like the bad guys.

I believe we just played one of these scenarios last night. It all seemed like the Aspis were just honest businessmen. Then the bard used Linguistics to check the warehouse workers' contracts, and my monk popped an elixir of vision to pump her Perception bonus to +27...well, let's just say it wasn't quite as innocent as it seemed.

Doing bad things while maintaining the appearance of trustworthy, ethical people? Now that's some high grade, professional quality evil, right there.


StabbittyDoom wrote:
Soha wrote:

I personally think it would work for the following reasons:

1. After declaring a full round attack action, after the first attack, the player has the option to change the rest of the attack to a move action. So there is an implied move action that is a part of a full round action.
2. The Core Rule Book explicitly states, "If the triggered action is part of another character's activities, you interrupt the other character."
3. There are feats that also interrupt full round actions - like Seize the Moment - an allies critical threat allows you an attack of opportunity (Stabbitty Doom, I believe that counters what you said about an interrupt between a roll to attack and a roll to damage); Improved Feint Partner - when ally successfully hits you gain an attack of opportunity. Attacks of opportunity always go off immediately before the next attack.

Wording needs to be carefully considered when stating your readied action and very specific. Personally I would state the following: I ready to Aid Joe Blow's second attack on his turn.

The "simultaneous events" thing isn't because the rules explicitly state that, but because it's implied that the readied condition must be something you can perceive, and perception-wise there isn't (to my knowledge) a difference between a successful attack roll and its damage roll. Other abilities, such as that feat, are totally allowed to break that rule and do so quite often. If you can perceive it, you can ready based on it :).

There are several spells and abilities that allow you to add to a roll or force a roll to be redone after the results are known. If it's not possible to perceive the difference between a successful attack roll and an unsuccessful one, then spells like Timely Inspiration can't exist.

But Timely Inspiration does exist, so there must be some way to know whether a roll has missed or hit.


Rory wrote:
Gwen Smith wrote:

My 4th level Weapon Master sling staff wielder got kicked out of the Grand Lodge and cried all the back to Andoran.

I had to inflict that FAQ upon a 9 year old who is still (thankfully) enamored by halflings. I was teaching him (and many other kids) the game via PFS content. His halfling fighter, that was simply using the racial weapon, was completely and utterly broken and there was no means in the PFS universe to fix the weapon for him.

That was not a happy day for me. That day was long ago now tho.

There are two possibilities:

1) If the FAQs made your build effectively not legal anymore or otherwise completely broke it, you might be able to do some retraining. Check with your local GMs and VOs to see how badly they think the FAQ hurt your build and see if they think you can rebuild. (Since the second FAQ was well-hidden, I wouldn't fault anyone for not finding it. It should have been in the same category as the first one.)

2) The Ammo Drop feat tree works with the halfling double sling.
There is an item called a stitched sling, which is a sling bullet sewn into a sling pouch that works like a flail. In theory, then, you should be able to sew up one end of your double-sling into a stitched sling.
It's only 1d4 instead of 1d6 (and you'd eventually have to enchant both ends of the weapon), but it does give you a halfling-specific sling-on-a-stick that you can also use in melee without switching weapons.

Alternatively, there is a feat called Sling Flail, which lets you use a loaded sling as a flail, and then fire it whenever you want. With that feat, you could load your double-sling and then either fire both ends or fire one end and use the other in melee.

But the fact that the Advanced Race Guide and the Halflings of Golarion book invented a new weapon and three feats that all together effectively give you the function of a sling staff really make me wonder if the developers of those books just hate the sling staff or if they just didn't know it existed at all.

*** RPG Venture-Lieutenant, Online aka Gwen Smith

GM Chyro wrote:

I ran this recently on tier 1-2 and had fun, as did the team. The greatest challenge was the warehouse.

@ Miles, he managed to open a mini portal on the swashbuckler, which was the best dex character so it can happen, go figure :). 3 of the PCs went KO, 2 at Bengeirr's hands. 1 confirmed crit of course on his behalf.

@ Corey on the cold dmg, i took the nl cold as giving fatigue until they sleep it off. Fatigue is no biggie opposed to death.

The barbarian managed to barely make his saving throw against the cold damage and hence the fatigue--he was soooooo relieved. Fatigue ruins a barbarian's day.


Second the recommendation for Gang Up. That's even more fun when you (or an ally) are large and/or has reach: you can threaten so many targets.

If you can't count on two allies, another option is the [url=http://archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Swashbuckler Mouser]Swashbuckler Mouser[url]. When the mouser enters a target's square, he counts as both adjacent and flanking for all allies adjacent to that target (or specific square of that target, for larger creatures).

*** RPG Venture-Lieutenant, Online aka Gwen Smith

I've run this three times. Each time, Bengeirr managed to hit one PC before they got upstairs and took him out, but each time he only managed to target the lantern for one round.

The non-lethal damage is not a big deal, and the PCs always got the scenario wrapped up within 24 hours, so the once/day saves never cam into play.

What it does do, however, is set up some awesome roleplay and "impending doom" feeling for the poor player who got hit. I described a lot of non-mechanical physical effects, told them that they could feel it getting worse after a number of hours, and made them very aware that over the next several days, it was going to get really, really bad. Oh, and then they'll rise as a zombie.

The main benefit of that bit, though, is that the PCs know whether they've broken the curse or not without having to get back to Absalom. "When the big portal opens, you feel a whole lot better." I honestly think that's one of the main reasons it's in there.

*** RPG Venture-Lieutenant, Online aka Gwen Smith

gnoams wrote:
Ghost touch is core, though you have it listed as not.

You're right--that was supposed to be the Ghost Salt weapon blanch, not the actual weapon enhancement).

Fixed that and added the other weapon blanches, too.


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Sadly, no.

First this FAQ put the sling staff in a coffin.

Then this FAQ nailed the lid shut and set it on fire.

My 4th level Weapon Master sling staff wielder got kicked out of the Grand Lodge and cried all the back to Andoran.

I wish they would just come out and declare that weapon non-existent or not legal. It would be much better for Halflings not to have a racial weapon at all than to have the only ranged weapon in the game (short of siege weapons) that can't be reloaded as less than a move action.


You can survive as a archer without Point Blank Master. Precise Shot is the true must-have for ranged characters. The other important feats are Deadly Aim, Rapid Shot, and Improved Precise Shot (in no particular order).

Just get a pair of Feather Step slippers to cancel the difficult terrain and you should be fine.

*** RPG Venture-Lieutenant, Online aka Gwen Smith

andreww wrote:
Dorothy Lindman wrote:
If you have anything you want to add to the Essential Gear list or have any other workarounds to add, just send me a Private Message, and I'll update the document.
You have the Potion of Air Bubble listed as a workaround for the lack of Air Crystals but it is from Ultimate Combat so is no eligible for Core.

Thanks for the catch. It's fixed now.


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I just played with a guy with an empathic familiar, and he and the GM did a really good job with the empathy. Stuff like:

GM: "When he goes down this hall, he sends you strong feelings of danger."
Player: "Danger up ahead--we should probably pre-buff."

GM: "He looks around the next corner, and you get feelings of confusion."
Player: "Something's up there, not sure what"

And my favorite
GM: "As soon as you enter this area, you get Alarm! Fear! Alarm!"
Player: "I hold him up to the north--"
"AHHHHHH!"
"And the East"
"AGHHHHH!"
"And towards the we--"
"AGHHHHH"
"Guys, I think we need to get out of here--"


felinoel wrote:
A monk can deflect the bombs that an alchemist throws

Can you give a citation on that? I haven't seen that official rule.(I've seen the James Jacobs post that says it can, but that's not actually official, is it?) But I don't see anything that says how Deflect Arrows interacts with supernatural abilities, and it seems to me that a supernatural ability has more in common with a spell than a weapon.


Scythia wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:
Cuuniyevo wrote:
In theory, someone else in the party could ready an action to restore your Con as soon as you were brought back. Bonus points if both healers liberally quote ER (or other, less dated, references) during the process.

Takes three rounds to cast restoration, which is going to make it really hard, considering you only have 1 round to make it work.

Might work a little better with a potion of restoration or lesser restoration, but even then it's going to be a pain in the butt since feeding someone a potion is a full round action.

So basically -- in theory yes, in action no.

Maybe ready an action to cast Bull's Strength on them? That'll give you more than enough time for a Restoration.

I would allow that, assuming the Bull's Strength or Bear's Endurance or whatever is enough to bring the character above 0 in that stat. That would last for 3 minutes, minimum, which should give the players enough time to get off several Restoration spells.


You might try starting with something like the Silverhex Quests. They're short, and they tend to focus on one or two skills per quest.

*** RPG Venture-Lieutenant, Online aka Gwen Smith

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We tend to use Silverhex as a demo at conventions and such, so it's often the first time players encounter PF RPG or even role playing games in general. Because of this, the usual "oh, the GM wants us to do X" hook doesn't always work, and if the PCs are not interested in buying Silverhex for themselves, there's no story. To get around this and to lead players into PFS overall, I built a frame story where a Pathfinder Society agent in the River Kingdoms hires the PCs to help Ulisha. (This is all based on information in the Pathfinder Wiki about a hidden Pathfinder Society lodge in the River Kingdoms.)

The document with the frame story is here.


I don't think the second grab triggers at all if the first one succeeds. If the first one fails, you can roll the second one.

Grab doesn't let you maintain a grapple, so you can't use it to go from grappled to pinned. You can't grapple the same creature twice. (Even multiple creatures grappling the same target only count as aiding the primary grappler.)

One grab succeeds. One escape artist roll to get out (or CMB check: my halfing tetori will gleefully take on your huge squid--she might fail, but it will be fun!)


Edymnion wrote:
Actually the efficient quiver can hold a lot more than 60 arrows. It says it has compartments big enough for various things, but it never says they can only be used for those things.

The compartments say they can hold things "the same size and shape" as the examples. Most GMs I play with restrict that to "only those things that are the same general size and shape". I did get agreement that my large sized arrows (for when my archer gets enlarged*) do fit in the "javelin" pocket, so that helps.

*You have to drop the quiver after you cast enlarge and pick it up again, but I love the giant archer trick.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm running some comparison numbers through level 10, with both one and two handed weapons, and there does seem to be some common break points at which power attack stops being helpful. I'm trying to reduce it to the bare minimum conditions to make it easier to work with.

I would always start with Power Attack, then adjust as follows:

1) As long as you can hit on a 12, continue Power Attacking, no matter what.
2) If your other damage bonuses (that multiply on a critical hit) are equal to or less than the bonus damage you get from Power Attack, then continue Power Attacking as long as you hit on 16.
3) If your other damage bonuses are 1.5 to 2 times greater than your Power Attack, then continue Power Attacking as long as you hit on a 14.
4) If you only hit with a 20 even when you're not Power Attacking, then continue Power Attacking.

Even if you're near the break point where you start to do less damage with Power Attack, this is only slightly less damage until you have 2 iterative attacks.

Oddly, level 8 (for a full BAB character) seems to be a bad level for Power Attack: coincidently, the average monster AC jumps by 2 around CR9 and the Power Attack penalty jumps to the next level, also. You could probably just say "Don't Power Attack on level 8" and be good.

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