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Guy Humual's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 3,235 posts (6,839 including aliases). 3 reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist. 3 Pathfinder Society characters. 21 aliases.


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Taldor

Well I'm not fussy so I don't really have a strong feeling about anything. Another two weeks then?

Taldor

Male hu-man Paladin
James Keegan wrote:
Right now sausages are her bag, so Isaac's stepped in.

there's a double entendre there somewhere . . .

Taldor

Male hu-man Paladin

Not bad, though Bluff is usually Karrin's bag :P

Taldor

thejeff wrote:

Backwards: ISIS is Sunni. Iran and Iraq's president are Shia.

It's not even clear how much the Sunni Iraqis are behind ISIS and how much they're just not willing to stand up and get killed. There are definitely some former Baathist army types, but it may still be more of a foreign invasion than a civil war.
If the US helps with the "defeat/degrade the army that's actually taking territory" part, but doesn't get into the "try to root them out when they turn into an underground resistance movement" part, this might work out better than the alternative.

Brain fart, I knew the Shia were the ones that claimed that their leaders were direct decedents of Mohammad, and I also remembered Sadam (after the first golf war) "finding" religion and claiming that he was one of these direct decedents of Mohammad. Seems like an even odder claim now as it wouldn't have endeared him to the Sunni.

However while I'm sure there's a lot of foreign fighters I believe that there's at least one former Baathist at or near the head of the Iraqi wing of ISIS, and they're undoubtedly getting aide some someone in the area. Bombing ISIS isn't likely going to dislodge them from the region because they have at the very least some support. Bombing them is more likely going to send more to their side. Also keeping them from spreading might be near impossible at this point without a ground force and the Iraq army is not up to the task.

Best thing they can do at this point is get people to the negotiating table and draw new borders for three new countries.

Taldor

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

Speaking of which, it will come as no surprise to anybody that I am against Obama's bombing of ISIS.

Iraq in Flames--Legacy of American Occupation

U.S. Imperialism--World's Biggest Terrorists!

It would be nice to get the Shias to accept a moderate government but these these people were violently oppressing their rivals twenty years ago, it's not surprising to see them getting behind this ISIS group that are murdering non-Shia Muslims. A lot of this does go back to the initial stages of the war where the Bath party were basically disbanded and forced out of any and all offices they held. Now that the US forces are gone you have genuine civil war.

However, do you let a group you basically created just starve a whole group of people on top of a mountain to death? I have a hard time disagreeing with Obama's choice this time.

Taldor

It's certainly worse then arranged marriages in theory, I'm sure there are exceptions where everyone lives happily ever after, but yes, hard to imagine a healthy relationship growing from one started with such an imbalance of power. Course in the part of the world where this is the acceptable I'm sure it's mostly just done out of tradition rather then genuine abduction and rape. Hard to imagine everyone devaluing women enough were fathers wouldn't seek revenge against the tribe of the abductor.

Taldor

GentleGiant wrote:
Guy Humual wrote:

However I just wanted to jump in here, I haven't read past the first page, but I noticed the OP said "three Jewish kids were kidnapped by Hamas operatives. Kids as in 16 years old"

I haven't been following this story that closely I'll admit, but to my understanding this was a bit of unconfirmed misinformation, the boys were indeed kidnapped and murdered, but I haven't heard it was done by anyone directly linked with Hamas. It's not something I'd say was beneath certain members of Hamas, but in the past they haven't been afraid to admit to something, and so I tend to think that they might not be linked. Certainly the right wing Israeli government likes to say that this was the work of Hamas, the story does play quiet well for them and their base, but as far as I know this is misinformation.

Go a few posts up from yours, I have a link showing the Israeli police admitting that it wasn't Hamas who kidnapped and killed the three teenagers (aged 16-19 btw), but a separate, independent group.

EDIT: Ahh, continued reading and saw that you had found the answer.

Again I can only apologize, I only just discovered the thread but had limited time. Lord Snow had a very fair account of what happened over the last few days but that little bit jumped out at me and I wondered if I'd missed some news story, or if Snow (being in Israel) might have been given some misinformation. I only had time to scan the first page but when I got back from work I got to read the previous page and that had what I wanted to know.

Taldor

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I just clicked back one page and found the answers I was looking for with my previous question. I apologize for not keeping up with the discussion but I came into this one late.

May I just say that as of right now the discussion seems very calm and peaceful, so kudos to everyone involved.

Taldor

I really hate Hamas but the idiocy and monstrousness on both sides is sickening. What does Hamas think it's going to accomplish by launching rockets? How does Israel justify killing that many civilians? I'm just horrified by the whole thing.

However I just wanted to jump in here, I haven't read past the first page, but I noticed the OP said "three Jewish kids were kidnapped by Hamas operatives. Kids as in 16 years old"

I haven't been following this story that closely I'll admit, but to my understanding this was a bit of unconfirmed misinformation, the boys were indeed kidnapped and murdered, but I haven't heard it was done by anyone directly linked with Hamas. It's not something I'd say was beneath certain members of Hamas, but in the past they haven't been afraid to admit to something, and so I tend to think that they might not be linked. Certainly the right wing Israeli government likes to say that this was the work of Hamas, the story does play quiet well for them and their base, but as far as I know this is misinformation.

Taldor

Male hu-man Paladin

I'm so sorry for your loss.

Taldor

Male hu-man Paladin

I'm so sorry for your loss Bryan.

Taldor

Male hu-man Paladin

Karrin picked up this little fact over four years ago and has kept it to herself ever since. You might remember back when Karrin met with Sebastian? Although you only have to go back two years ago to see where Karrin came close to revealing this secret to the group. It was just after Nari got her new body:

Karrin Kind wrote:

"Well my mother is a bloody scion of hell!" Karrin snaps, "A monster of unimaginable proportions!"

Karrin pauses, blinks, then quickly adds, "Probably. I mean for all I know she could be some lowly demon or something. Actually that's probably more likely. Sired by some unknown, unimportant demon somewhere, but forever tainted. No matter what your father was Nari at least you don't carry his taint everywhere you go. People didn't look at that old elven body of yours and think "she must be some sort of monster" or something. You at least had the option of disowning him, putting him in your past, but me, I got these horns, I got these teeth, and I got this ugly red skin. How can I forget one of my parents was a monster? I mean I can try every day, serve Rao every day, and I still got these horns on my head. Folks automatically think I'm evil. I mean I was lucky, I found a guy once that was able to look past these stupid fangs, see me for a good person, but you think that's ever going to happen again? I'm sorry for ranting here Nari, and I'm really sorry for the bad stuff that happened to you, but I don't to walk away from what I am ever. I'm just having a really hard time accepting this is all . . . "

Karrin does seem to be having trouble controlling the tone of her voice.

Taldor

Male hu-man Paladin
James Keegan wrote:
This hack's website has it.

Nice :D

Taldor

Male hu-man Paladin
O.L.L.I wrote:
O.L.L.I gives Karrin an awkward hug back and gravely introduces himself around. He is cute, in a steamtrunk kind of way, with small vestigial wings and large chibi eyes. Thin pipestem arms and legs complete the look

Didn't you get some hack artist to draw a picture of him? James something . . .

Taldor

Male hu-man Paladin

I sometimes find characters don't really come alive till you've played them.

Taldor

Pygon wrote:

Rath made me aware that he and Venthal will not be available for the 6/15 game due to work scheduling.

So, it looks like we are postponing for two more weeks.

We'll finish this thing eventually.

Oooh, I wonder if that has anything to do with that Chinese hacking thing . . .

Taldor

Not that I believe anything I see on this channel but I did find This plausible.

Taldor

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
Hundredth anniversary of the Ludlow Massacre

The host of this segment had to be one of the most uncharismatic presenters I've seen in a long time. I thought the piece was interesting, I admit that I don't know much of the early 20th century labor movement and I thank you for posting this as I'll probably be reading more about this later, but man that host was awkward.

Taldor

I'm like most MMOs these days: free to play.

Taldor

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I see that Anita has been awarded the Ambassador Award from the 2014 Game Developers Choice Awards. I thought it was interesting to hear that "the Last of Us" writer was inspired by her work. Certainly the characters in that story were well written and very well received. It sort of echoes what I was saying about the usefulness of criticism in the locked thread.

Taldor

Male hu-man Paladin

Thanks for the update Patrick, and thanks for keeping the game rolling all these years. I think we just missed our 6 year anniversary.

Taldor

Male hu-man Paladin

I concur, you've kept your games going for years now and I'm always happy to have an update.

Taldor

This is very sad news if true, I loved Dragon magazine, in no small part because of artists like Tramp. Learning that he's passed is sad, but the fact that he never illustrated anything after leaving Dragon mag is sadder still.

Taldor

Chris Lambertz wrote:
Removed a few posts. While this is the Off Topic forum, let's not get too graphic on the messageboards please.

I thought this might happen. For the record I didn't flag anything but I suspected it was inevitable.

Taldor

Don Juan de Doodlebug wrote:
More objectification

It's a sad day when what Obama is seen as the left wing, but if that lady is upset about Obama becoming an extension of the Bush government then she'd have really flipped her lid if the actual republican party somehow gained power. At least you guys are getting a very basic improvement in your health care system.

Taldor

Male hu-man Paladin

Thanks for the heads up Pat.

Taldor

Male hu-man Paladin

Thanks for the heads up.

Taldor

Rathendar wrote:
Guy Humual wrote:
I'm going to guess that we're going to miss this week?

It's just now turned 9pm, Guy. Going to pull the trigger and say cancel for today. Pygon's prolly going to be tired even when he gets home. No sense piling more on the poor fellow. ;)

Next session on the 23rd!

Agreed. I hope it wasn't all work, on a Sunday no less! Anyways take care Pygon and we'll see you in two weeks (if not online before then).

Taldor

I'm going to guess that we're going to miss this week?

Taldor

He made some great movies over the years. He will be missed.

Taldor

I found This enlightening. It dissects the trailer fairly well.

Taldor

Don Juan de Doodlebug wrote:
Guy Humual wrote:
This is my favorite Beyonce song.
OHWFA!

I prefer the version I posted. And since this is a thread about Gender and politics I suppose I should say something about the lyrics:

"Cause if you liked it, then you should have put a ring on it
If you liked it, then you shoulda put a ring on it
Don't be mad once you see that he want it
'Cause if you liked it, then you shoulda put a ring on it"

To me that sounds like Beyonce is calling herself an "it" and dehumanizing herself, not to mention suggesting ownership through marriage. Later are the lines:

"I need no permission, did I mention
Don't pay him any attention
'Cause you had your turn, and now you gonna learn
What it really feels like to miss me"

And although I like the line "I need no permission", but later in the verse she adds "(be)cause you had your turn" suggesting that rather then being a free willed being capable of doing whatever she wants that she's only free to make her own choices now because she's broken up with her man. Anyways I do like the limited freedom the song promotes, that pining over a man that's unwilling to commit is foolish, but the rest of the song seems to promote ugly gender stereotypes. But maybe that's just me.

Taldor

This is my favorite Beyonce song.

Taldor

If you're trying to suggest that Canada has right wing whack jobs, congratulations, it was however a one sided fight as I'd never contest that opinion. What I'm talking about is the conservative government, which as much as I dislike, hasn't acted on any of it's right wing nutbar's opinions despite having the US equivalent of the presidency, house of representatives, and the senate. They've had virtually all the power to do anything for the last three years now and they haven't acted on any of their Right wing impulses. The reason being Harper wants to get elected again and has been trying to rule from the center. The center of Canadian politics are to the left of even your Democratic party.

As to the poll, you're talking about something that hasn't even seen public debate in this country since the last Conservative government (over twenty years ago) and so it's entirely a one sided argument. People's opinions are entirely based on high profile murder cases and US television where the accused is always actually guilty. The problem is that in real life wrongful convictions happen all the time and in the new age of cell phone video police officers are being caught lying, abusing authority, and even breaking the law which in my mind, should the debate be reopened, would quickly sway public opinion back to the 1960s levels of support.

Taldor

A Man In Black wrote:
Guy Humual wrote:
Well I'm Canadian, so I tend to view the US Democratic party as being uncomfortably right wing, and our right wing "Conservative" party would be seen as wacko lefty pinko communist sympathizers by the American news media.
No, I'm pretty sure sucking up to the oil industry, slashing government funding on both social programs and scientific research, and straight up voter suppression is pretty familiar to any American.

You forgot those tax breaks that ate away at the surplus that the Liberals left us with before the subprime mortgage crisis and Harper's desire to snuggle up to Israel.

However Canada is still against the death penalty, doesn't execute it's citizens in over seas drone strikes, does have a progressive tax rate, believes in public health care, believes in separation between church and state, celebrates multiculturalism, and was one of the first countries in the world to legalize same sex marriage. Now I might agree that Harper probably doesn't support some of these things, I seriously doubt however that he'd even try to repeal or change these core Canadian laws and ideals, and while he is trying to be more and more like an American president (it's so cute), he's still got quite a way to go before he matches the policies of Barack Obama.

Taldor

Kryzbyn wrote:

I think Guy may vote Democrat. I'm not 100% sure though...

;)

Well I'm Canadian, so I tend to view the US Democratic party as being uncomfortably right wing, and our right wing "Conservative" party would be seen as wacko lefty pinko communist sympathizers by the American news media.

Taldor

thejeff wrote:
There's something wrong about asking people who are leaders in their fields for advice about something that's out of their field. If the pope wanted to give me advice about C Programming, I wouldn't pay much attention. Likewise if a religious leader wants to give advice on biology.

Right, but this isn't what religious leaders usually want to consult government over, often it's public policy, and while I might never agree with the pope on certain matters, the thing is popes don't get to where they are by being poor administrators. There's nothing wrong with listening to religious leaders anymore then there's anything wrong with listening to leaders of industry. However I do agree that there's a huge difference between consulting and blindly following the advise of said leaders. We shouldn't base our laws on a bronze age mysticism anymore then we should base our public spending on the free market economies.

Taldor

There's nothing wrong with asking people that are leaders in their fields for advice. I'm an atheist but if the pope wanted to give me advise I'd be a fool if I didn't at least listen to him. I might not do a single thing he says but there's nothing wrong with listening to people. Besides, just appearing to consult a major religious leader can score points with that religion's followers without actually having to commit to anything. It's sort of how the American Republican party works, they support a government that harbors the rich, takes food (stamps) from the poor, and is adamantly against healing the sick (if they can't pay for it), and yet they claim to be a christian party. It would be a bit like Anthony Bourdain or Andrew Zimmern claiming to be vegans, they eat meat all the time, privately scoff at philosophy and almost never eat strictly vegan meals, but they attend public meetings and condemn other TV food hosts who aren't acting vegan enough.

Taldor

thejeff wrote:
Guy Humual wrote:
Now if you want to argue that no one was convinced or swayed by this debate you'd be correct. But of course I've never felt that was the point of a debate, usually I see a debate as a chance to understand the other side and maybe find some middle ground that you can agree on. The only time you sway or convince the other side is when the other side comes into a debate completely ignorant of the facts or your position.

This isn't the kind of debate where you get to understand the other side or find middle ground. Each side knows the other's position just fine and there isn't any compromise available.

Nor are you trying to change the minds of the debaters or their hard-core followers. You're playing for the middle. Trying to sway those who aren't convinced yet. You're also playing for soundbites in the news coverage, since far more people will see that than actually watch the debate.

Yes, this is what I said. The debate exists only as publicity for his "museum" themed fun park. People who buy Ham's books weren't going to listen to anything Nye had to say, but they may have been unaware of Ham's Creation "Museum", and that is the real purpose of the debate.

thejeff wrote:
From what little I've seen, Nye won the news coverage.

I'd hope so. Arguing faith against reason and observation is a practically impossible battle and Nye would have needed to have been a monumentally bad debater to have lost. Knowing that Nye is not only capable of human speech but also pretty articulate left the results of the debate a forgone conclusion for me, but I watched a bit of it anyways.

Taldor

For those arguing that this debate didn't serve a purpose you're completely incorrect. The Creation "Museum", a wacky theme park (minus the rides I'd assume) needed a bit of publicity, and this debate got quite a bit of buzz around the internet. Ham's goal wasn't to win this debate, I'm sure he's a cynical shill and snake oil sales man like many of these mega church leaders, and drumming up support for his "museum" style theme park and making money hand over fist are his only concerns. Anyone who thinks this guy isn't sticking to the script so he can continue to bilk the sad uneducated masses is the real wackadoo here.

Now if you want to argue that no one was convinced or swayed by this debate you'd be correct. But of course I've never felt that was the point of a debate, usually I see a debate as a chance to understand the other side and maybe find some middle ground that you can agree on. The only time you sway or convince the other side is when the other side comes into a debate completely ignorant of the facts or your position.

Taldor

From wikipedia: "Brain death is used as an indicator of legal death in many jurisdictions, but it is defined inconsistently. Various parts of the brain may keep living when others die, and the term "brain death" has been used to refer to various combinations. For example, although a major medical dictionary says that "brain death" is synonymous with "cerebral death" (death of the cerebrum), the US National Library of Medicine Medical Subject Headings (MeSH) system defines brain death as including the brainstem. The distinctions can be important because, for example, in someone with a dead cerebrum but a living brainstem, the heartbeat and ventilation can continue unaided, whereas, in whole-brain death, only life support equipment would keep those functions going."

As you can see it's perfectly possible to be breathing and have a heartbeat, which is one of the definitions of being alive, and still be declared brain dead. What you're quibbling about is the definition of death. With today's technology you can keep someone that's brain dead on life support for a very long time . . . but they're almost certainly never going to recover, unless as I said earlier, they were misdiagnosed.

Taldor

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Guy Hummual wrote:
with another quick google I see that there's a lawsuit claiming that 1 in five "brain dead" patients are still alive.

Equivocation. The article says that 1 in 5 brain dead patients are ALIVE, that is they have a heart beat. Your argument is that the patients are diagnosed as "brain dead" but are not brain dead. ENORMOUS difference.

No, brain dead, from a medical stand point, is completely equal to death. This is maybe one of the reasons there's reluctance to pull the plug so to speak because people hear brain dead and think "That's not completely dead", but from a medical stand point it's the same.

Another thing I should point out, and it's the point of that article, is that brain death is very useful for saving other people's lives because brain dead individuals often have otherwise healthy organs for transplants. What this lawsuit claims is that doctors are too quick to diagnose brain death so they can harvest the body.

Taldor

Orfamay Quest wrote:
Guy Humual wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:
Guy Humual wrote:
We've had dozens of cases where people were thought to be brain dead or in unrecoverable comas but amazingly made full recoveries, but for every one of these miracles there's probably hundreds of cases were the doctors were right.

Don't conflate "brain dead" with "unrecoverable comas."

My understanding is that there are no recorded cases anywhere in the medical literature of recovery from "brain death."

I don't know, I typed brain death recovery into google and got this as the first result:

'Miracle recovery' of teen declared brain dead by four doctors

Now you could argue that he wasn't given the proper diagnosis . . .

I don't need to. The article you cited (but evidently didn't read) made that point explicitly.

"Remarkably, he detected faint brain waves indicating Steven had a slim chance of recovery and medics decided to attempt to bring him out of his coma."

In other words, the medical experts acknowledge at that point that he wasn't brain dead.

That's not relevant in the Texas case. No one, not even the hospital, has ever argued that the diagnosis of brain death might be incorrect. Brain dead is dead, and no one has ever recovered from that.

No, I read the article, but you're not getting what I'm saying. Brain dead is a diagnosis. People don't recover from brain death . . . until they do, and then they go back and review and revise the diagnosis. with another quick google I see that there's a lawsuit claiming that 1 in five "brain dead" patients are still alive. I seriously doubt that it's that high, maybe 1 in 500 is a stretch, but regardless this notion that you put forward that brain dead people don't recover is just wrong because there's plenty of examples of people that are declared brain dead recovering. What you're arguing is that when someone has the correct diagnosis of brain death they never recover, which would only be a useful distinction if there weren't so many discrepancies and misdiagnoses, and medicine is full of discrepancies and misdiagnoses. Also remember that if the family from the article I cited had listened to those first four doctors brain death would have been the correct diagnosis because they would have removed him from life support and taken his organs for transplants. There's a reason why people are told to get a second opinion.

Taldor

Male hu-man Paladin
Hugo Solis wrote:
Patrick Curtin wrote:
If anyone needs their description again, the originals were on the bottom of This page

I've already got 4 emails with description, and checking Pat's link abode I see more descriptions in there.

Just a big favor, please list all the characters (player name and PC name) so that I can use the emails I have and check the thread link abode to get the remaining PCs from this thread.

Thanks!

Right now we have (in no particular order):

Karrin Kind - Guy Humual
Ekuur - Bryan
Isaac - James Keegan
Justin Case - Ragadolf
Merle Barer - Kevin Mack
Seph (Merle's familiar) - Kevin Mack
Naridre Ro'Arisahshe - Lynora
Rhiannon d'Deneith - Mark Thomas 66

That's everyone in the group at the moment

Taldor

Male hu-man Paladin
Patrick Curtin wrote:
If anyone needs their description again, the originals were on the bottom of This page

I sent Hugo a description. I really hope he does this, he's a good artist, and having artists like Hugo or James draw your character is always exciting.

Taldor

Krensky wrote:

Yes, yes the hospital was wrong.

They weren't doing it out of concern for the fetus, or because the doctors had a different opinion on the viability of the pregnancy or the woman's chances of recovery or anything.

They did it because some d-bags in the Texas legislature decided to ratchet up things on the whole personhood tactic while simultaneously continuing to strip womens rights by making a pregnant woman nothing more than an incubator.

Well I can't comment on the whole politics of this case (I do realize that this is Texas though and big parts of it are pretty backwater) I can say that if I were the woman and I thought my child had a good chance of survival and a normal life that I'd have wanted them to do anything possible to save it. The two major differences in these tragic stories, this one and the one out of Canada, is that in Canada we have a fetus that has a good chance of survival and a normal life and we have family members and doctors in agreement over what the late mother would have wanted. While I think politics might have come into play here I don't think that it was entirely a political move.

Also I agree that the Texas hospital made the wrong decision and that they shouldn't have put the family through this but I really don't think this is an entirely black and white scenario.

Taldor

Orfamay Quest wrote:
Guy Humual wrote:
We've had dozens of cases where people were thought to be brain dead or in unrecoverable comas but amazingly made full recoveries, but for every one of these miracles there's probably hundreds of cases were the doctors were right.

Don't conflate "brain dead" with "unrecoverable comas."

My understanding is that there are no recorded cases anywhere in the medical literature of recovery from "brain death."

I don't know, I typed brain death recovery into google and got this as the first result:

'Miracle recovery' of teen declared brain dead by four doctors

Now you could argue that he wasn't given the proper diagnosis . . . but that's pretty much how medicine works, you go to a doctor and they give you a diagnosis based on their knowledge and expertise. Sometimes doctors are wrong. That doesn't change the fact that some people are declared brain dead and yet turn out to be anything but.

Taldor

The thing is the poor brain dead women in both cases obviously wanted to have children, they intended to carry the child to full term, but sadly they suffered brain damage that in any other era of human history would have meant death for both the mother and unborn child. The real question we have to face is when is it okay to remove someone from life support. We've had dozens of cases where people were thought to be brain dead or in unrecoverable comas but amazingly made full recoveries, but for every one of these miracles there's probably hundreds of cases were the doctors were right.

There are a couple of things at play here, first there is the woman's right to chose, and I like to think that most mothers would want doctors to do anything possible to save their child, but there's also the right to a dignified death. I remember that Terri Schiavo fiasco, the fact she didn't have a living will did compound issues, the fact that she had no way of speaking for herself and because there were to sides that believed that she wanted different things also complicated things, but I think euthanasia should be a right of the terminally ill as long as they have a voice and the cognitive ability to express these wishes, and I think people need to have living wills should something like this happen.

As for the unborn, it should be the mother that decides, the child is essentially part of her body after all, but in the situation were the mother can't decided, then the decision should fall to family. It's really not a simple cut and dry case. I think both eventually saw the correct outcomes but I really can't say that the Texas hospital was completely in the wrong in this one.

Taldor

Don Juan de Doodlebug wrote:
Guy Humual wrote:
I'm not sure if there's a right or wrong absolute in this complex issue, but it is nice that the doctors and family are on the same side here. In the other story from the states I think the big issue was the quality of life for the developing fetus which I don't think is a worry here.
Can't say I followed the Texas case all that closely so I don't know if it was corroborated, but dude claimed being kept plugged in while brain-dead was against her expressed wishes. If true, keeping her alive as an incubator seems pretty near to absolutely wrong to me.

Well suppose the fetus were healthy and hadn't suffered extreme oxygen deprivation, I tend to think this would have made the decision to keep her alive far more grey on the morality scale. I don't think the families decision to take her off life support was at all wrong, but I can see why, with another life in play here, the hospital was reluctant to do so. I agree it was wrong, especially seeing as the unborn child's prognoses wasn't a good one, but I can understand the waffling even though I don't support the pro-life movement.

Taldor

Don Juan de Doodlebug wrote:
Don Juan de Doodlebug wrote:

And, for Citizen Humual's delectation, back to anti-woman America:

F+!$ing finally

At the risk of having to watch Citizen Humual gloat:

Canada does it right.

I'm not sure if there's a right or wrong absolute in this complex issue, but it is nice that the doctors and family are on the same side here. In the other story from the states I think the big issue was the quality of life for the developing fetus which I don't think is a worry here.

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