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Rakshasa

Gurubabaramalamaswami's page

970 posts (1,316 including aliases). No reviews. 1 list. No wishlists. 11 aliases.


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(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

The real reason is that Paizo knows that if they release a book that acknowledges the gunslinger class, the resulting nerdrage will consume the entire company and also a few other small businesses their HQ.


Ok so if Toucan and the Tiger need foes for this adventure of theirs, I suggest a Brown Vampire Count, A Pink Flesh Golem, and a Purple Ghost.

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber)

If we need a rogue...are there any bear-like races? I'm thinking of someone who can't get enough of that golden loot!


The toucan should, of course, grant you the scent ability. :)


If I were in a game with someone playing a arcane caster with a toucan familiar, I'd feel obliged to play a druid with a tiger animal companion so that we could embark on some breakfast cereal themed adventures together; preferably vs a leprechaun BBEG. It'd be GRRRRREAT!!!

Taldor (Pathfinder Superscriber)

Aren't Dodos extinct because they just sat still while cats hunted them? Doesn't really seem like the sort of behaviour that suggests a bonus to initiative to me.


The toucan should grant a +3 bonus on Perception checks to detect breakfast cereals.

Shadow Lodge (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

110. You played Chuck Norris in your last game & the Tarrasque went on a quest to try & banish you.

111. You think the best way to destroy ANY artifact is to let Chuck Norris deliver a kick to it.

112. You are worried that Chuck Norris might not approve these messages.


103. You know why Camelot is a silly place.


Blah blah blah.

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Until Paizo starts offering positive portrayals of goblins as warm, sensitive, well-endowed lovers, all your blather is nothing more than well-meaning liberal claptrap.


EHP = Evil High Priest (what grognards called 'big bads' before Joss Whedon came along)


I 100% love FAQ Tuesdays keep em Coming

(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

I can just see next week's: FAQ Attack: Questions Boogaloo


Beckett wrote:
Also, just for future reference, saying things like use common sense doesn't help a thing

Sorry, but I'm never going to give up hope that people will actually try to think about what makes sense instead of being deliberately obtuse and demanding a page of explanation for every rule.

It's impossible to write a rule so clearly that everyone will understand it. This rule is going to be weird because (1) the question of "what exactly is negative/positive energy" isn't explained in detail anywhere, and (2) positive/negative energy effects are in just about every hardcover we've published. Ideally, we'd go back through EVERY rule that uses pos or neg energy and clarify what it does to living creatures and undead, and state in the NEA ability that the creature is always treated as undead for these abilities. But we don't have that option, so the GM is going to have to--dramatic music--make a call.

The GM is not a robot. You have a brilliant human brain, the product of millions of years of evolution. I'm complementing you by saying, "I think you can figure this out."


YES! PLEASE MAKE FAQ UPDATES A WEEKLY (or bi-weekly) BLOG STAPLE!

Seriously, please don't taunt us with a single seasonal instalment. I'd actually check out the blog regularly if I knew there'd be dependable product support updates. It'd renew my faith that clicking the FAQ button accomplishes something. Even if these particular answers don't help me, this is the sort of thing I desperately want to see from Paizo. Thanks very much and please keep up the good work!

(Pathfinder Superscriber; GameMastery Cards Subscriber)

Since the title is a double negative. Yes, bring on the mythic levels!! Let me know when the public playtest is and we can hash it out then..

(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber)

The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant books are a perfect candidate for this list. They were lavished with praise and awards by fans AND critics despite being a perfect storm of awfulness. I labored through the first and second trilogies back in High School after a friend had told me that they were the best fantasy books he had ever read. This guy had cleared out the local library's sci-fi/fantasy section so I thought these books must be something truly special. WRONG! I slogged through page after page of Thomas Covenant's (and later Lynden Avery's) histrionic whining and complaining waiting for a big payoff that never came. Both main characters managed to be completely unsympathetic and developed no redeeming qualities throughout the entire proceedings. About the only benefit I derived from suffering through 6 books of turgid navel-gazing was that I learned the meanings of the words 'gelid' and 'roynish' which has come in handy when solving crossword puzzles in later years. Coming across the first book of a THIRD TRILOGY in a Barnes and Noble recently shook my faith in a benevolent Providence to its very core.


Wait, wait, me and my six, thirteen year old, 8th grade friends, sitting at my moms dining room table sharing a single copy of the rules, qualified us as PIRATES! Damn were we cool.

(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber)

Shem wrote:


Problem is that when a FGG thread gets going people seem to talk about all things Frog God and it is a bit hard to find a specific post.

Lol yes...and I'm very much guilty of this. I wish that talesofthefroggod dot com had its own forums, especially since I'm having problems trying to get the old NG ezboards forums right now.

DJF


RAW, it has no affect at all.


1. The first range increment of the common shortbow is 60'. A 5th-level caster of color spray throws a 35' cone. Start more fights in big rooms, long corridors, or the great outdoors.

2. Anything that has SR 6 or more compels your oracle (and wizard, when he's casting) to make one more roll to succeed.

3. Your party's necromancer is in for a truly nasty surprise the first time he comes up against an evil cleric who took the Rebuke Undead feat...

4. Using the same signature attack over and over is going to come back to haunt both characters soon: I refer you to the Clr4 spell spell immunity.

5. Employ more monsters that nauseate, entangle, grapple/pin, blind, etc. - and if they're smart enough to know who the real dangers are, make sure they beeline for the casters, regardless of AoOs. (If the martial characters intercept the monsters, that still suits your long-term goal of "make the other characters feel useful.")

6. Don't be afraid to put in plenty of low-level enemy spellcaster support: acid arrow, glitterdust, magic missile and silence are all solid ways to make things uncomfortable for casters. I've also had PCs blow a surprising amount of first-round spell resources on what turned out to be a minor image...

7. Sounds to me like the party is suffering from 15-Minute Work Day Syndrome (i.e., the spellcasters can stop and rest as soon as they've used up their best spells.) There are several other threads that discuss fixing this problem.

8. Introducing contacts specific to individual PC can help with the social situations. The cavalier might know a nobleman who trained with him, while the rogue knows an information broker in the city who can find out just about anything... for the right price. Giving everybody, including the oracle & wizard, a contact will help avoid the impression of playing favorites (even if the non-casters happen to have slightly more useful contacts.)

9. Lastly, there's the away-from-the-table solution. Privately ask the players of the Oracle and the Wizard to concentrate a little less on immediate overwhelming force and a little more on making sure the majority of the players are having fun? Reserving their best tactics for times when the other players can't handle the fight will make them much more popular...


You need more minions.

Way more minions.

All the minions.

Get the primest filet minons and have them filet guys with teeny area of effect abilities. Diamond Spray, Color Spray, Scorching Ray, and Ray of Exhaust are all very single-target problems. Even a CR-appropriate swarm of GOBLINSES would be effective here. Maybe with m/w weapons.


I have gone back, re-read that answer, and realized that an understated indication of a slam attack while hands are full, combined with the traditional teapot lore, makes it make perfect sense that, while not my cuppa, a tanuki teabagging is not outside of the realm of possibility.

It's license to a GM to say, "You're sacked."


Personally I picked my original user name poorly. I'd like to make the alias I use my main name and either delete or demote my profile name.


If the enemy realy doesn't know anything, or if the intimidation fails, the prisoner could always lie. Perhaps sending the group on a wild goose chase or even into an ambush. Anything to keep from getting beaten more. Failing an intimidation check doesn't always mean that the prisoner will laugh in the face of torture.


Just role-play it. Why are you being anal about what the dice says?

These are adventurers, armed to the teeth, who've just killed this guys friends in front of him, they then interrogate him 3-1, threaten him, and punch him in the face.

Unless every NPC you are playing is The Punisher or Rambo, tell them the information?

Why are you even rolling? If I grabbed you, punched you in your face, killed your friends and had a sword, you'd f%!!ing tell me what I wanted to know, hands down, the tough guy bs wouldn't even be an option.

One of my pet hates about RPG's is people who have no imagination, and think that the dice rolls are law.

In this situation, they clearly aren't. The D20 system isn't perfect, especially for skill checks. So use your imagination and common sense.


It's a paint master.

The Yeti is wearing clothes because of Original Yeti Sin, which brought shame and self-awareness to the Yeti community.


DnD changing editions too quickly is a downfall of theirs, not a strength. Paizo doesn't need to copy that.

Grand Lodge (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Tales Subscriber)

ajs wrote:

Now that you-know-who is preparing for a marketing blitz around 5th edition, I think it's time for Pathfinder 2nd ed. Mostly, I think this would be a good way to capitalize on a larger marketing budget, but I could see some real value coming out of it.

I see Paizo taking a very long look at what's happened to WOTC and saying to themselves.

"Do we really want to fracture our player base the way they did?"

"Are we better off leaving the minority grumbling about a 2nd edition, then spawning our own set of Edition Wars?"

Quite frankly, I don't see a point of a 2nd edition that's mechanically different from the first.

Maybe clarify and repackage the existing ruleset.. But we don't need a 2nd edition... ever.


Leave the game alone. Just play it. I'm not buying any more "new editions" of games I already enjoy. The adventures are the point, remember?


So you think the best time to alienate customers by requiring them to purchase a whole new set of expensive books is when your biggest competitor is alienating theirs as well? Bad, bad idea.

Silver Crusade (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber)

I think that today's blog is a prime example of "do not want".

(Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber)

Well, it's nice that you guys don't want epic content, but I didn't want firearms or a gunslinger and yet we have them.

I also don't really want as much Lovecraftian Mythos in Golarion.

However I did not go on any anti-these things rant, telling others they can't have what they want. Cause why would I rob others of what they find fun.

How would you feel if there was something you guys wanted, but perhaps a decent number of people did not, and they went on rants telling Paizo not to focus on stuff you want to see??

PS,
Too bad your cries will be unheard, as most the important Paizo people, including James Jacbos, actually want Epic/Mythic rules.

Sorry about your damn luck.


If you don't want epic content than don't use it. No need to say you don't want it. It's like saying I don't want to eat a burger. If you don't want it than don't eat it. No need to jihad against all burgers because you don't like them. .


Nemitri wrote:
I don't know what else you can offer a player after level 20 that doesn't rival the power of the deities of pathfinder!

Perhaps people want to rival the power of the deities of Pathfinder? Perhaps they want to take the Test of the Starstone? Perhaps they want to hunt down and kill Achaekek, who is explicitly statted out so that he can be killed (Deities aren't statted because they aren't intended to be fought, but demigods are statted so that they can be--this is straight from Paizo). Perhaps they want to stop a Demonic invasion of their homeworld by travelling to the Nine Hells and enlisting the aid of one of Asmodeus's lieutenants (or perhaps even the deity himself) to take out the greater Demon Lord who is masterminding the invasion?

The limits of someone else's imagination should not impact the ability of my players and I to run the campaigns we want--or buy the products we want.

(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber)

More monsters from Celtic, Native american, Japanese, Greek, Norse, Egyptian, Russian, Australian, and South American mythology.


That is why I am such a huge fan of Call of Cthulhu. It has achieved perfect play balance between all possible investigator builds. When encountering a Shoggoth or Nyarlathotep, each investigator has an equal, 100% chance of death or insanity. Total balance!

(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber)

I'd like at least one blog post per week dedicated to fixing or discussing known poorly worded or mechanically designed aspects of the game, such as stealth and other things that are very frequently talked about/complained about. I'd like an ongoing Design & Development blog as a SEPARATE blog that is all about cutting edge "fixes" to well-accepted broken elements of the game. Then one could use things proposed in that blog in an ongoing playtest for things that might go into a .5 or 2.0 release eventually. Sort of a rolling playtest of possible fixes/tweaks for future releases. Instead we get EXTREMELY intermittent posts about these sorts of things which are then forgotten for months at a time (see Stealth.)

Just an idea.


rkraus2 wrote:

There is a problem here that has not been mentioned. It's the lack of non-combat resolution. The result is that EVERY conflict becomes violent, and quickly.

I would recommend bulking up the debate/argument part of the game. If you don't want to home-brew a solution like I did, you can use opposed skill checks. Just don't allow refills to infinity, win or lose, the result stands for the rest of the scene.

PS please Pathfinder, bulk this up for version 2.0 of the rules. A role playing game should be good at this.

I don't fully agree, Rkraus2. The problem is that many players (not all, certainly, but many) see themselves as a Conanequse kind of guy, who doesn't talk about problems he hits it with his sword! Totally not the Conan of the novels, but portrayed that way in the movies. Why do you think you see so many people who love to play chaotic characters?

Man, the rules don't apply to me! I make my own rules, I live by my wits and my sword, and ain't no guard gonna tell ME what to do!

Chaotic characters, have, in the long run, proven a greater disruption on games than evil characters that are lawful or neutral in respect to law and chaos. Because they don't want limits. Personal, judicial, or otherwise. I am not at all certain having a rule for a skill check, or an ability check, or something else can stop PvP arguments. Only a well schooled, experienced DM can do that. And even then, not always.

Master Arminas


Evil campaigns can be difficult, for all of those reasons discussed above. I have never played in a ‘pure’ evil campaign such as Way of the Wicked. However, the very first character I ever played in AD&D (a monk fellow by the name of Arminas) was Lawful Evil in a most good/partly neutral party; one that furthermore included a Paladin of Heironious in the ranks. Our DM (a great games-master named Steve Baker) and I sat down several hours before the game started and, as it was the very first time I had ever played D&D, we went over a few things.

He asked me to take a quick look at the book, and upon seeing the monk, I wanted to play one. No, I didn’t have to play him from 1st level, but Steve let come in with XP one level below that of the players: 7th. This was back in the heady days of 1st edition, so he had me roll 3d6 in order—but, he told me since I wanted to play a monk, my stats would either what I rolled or the minimum allowed for the class. Well, between some good rolls and bumping scores up to the minimum, I had a really good character by the time we finished with THAC0 and AC and saves and my attacks and damage and hit points and all that jive.

And then he asked me what alignment I wanted to play. Well, I started to answer ‘good, of course’, but then I asked him what alignment do you think I should play? He got a grin on his face, and explained to me that the group was currently a quest for the Church of the Twins: a forced amalgamation of the clergy of Heironious (LG) and Hextor (LE). Half the party was good and devoted to Heironious; the rest was neutral, with a thief and a cleric of St. Cuthbert (LN). He said that any of the three alignments could fit, but that he would like to see a Hextorian join the party—if I was up to the task of playing it well. After which, he explained to me that Lawful Evil was a lot like Darth Vader.

Hey, it was 1986 and I was a freshman in college.

I jumped on it with both feet. We spent the next hour finishing up the details of the character (his height, weight, racial ethnicity [Arminas was a Suel], and bit of character background). I determined that Arminas was an orphan who had been raised by a local monastery in his home of the Theocracy of the Pale (which in Steve Baker’s world was run by the Hextorians, not the Pholtans! Take that you intolerant light-bringers!) as a ward of the Church of Hextor. His path was not that of the clergy, but instead that of a monk.

By the time I joined the party, Arminas had progressed to the point where he was a major trouble-shooter of the Church: in a very literal fashion (ok, ok, trouble-beat’em-‘til-they-cry-for-uncle-and-beat ‘em-some-more). And he was very religious. Oh, you should have the faces on the folks I would be gaming with that night when Steve introduced me—and my character and the Holy Symbol of Hextor that he wore openly around his neck.

And even before I could make my introductions, the Bishops (11th level NPCs) of Hextor and Heironious walked up, I handed over my holy symbol was released from my vows to Hextor. I then took vows to the Church of the Twins and received my new holy symbol (basically a combination of H's&H’s symbols). And the party was then told I was the representative of the new Church hierarchy. Well, they were pretty much rattled, and since Steve didn’t let us share our character sheets, they had no idea what level I was or what my stats were or what my alignment was (although they could pretty well guess the last!).

We loaded upon a sailing ship that was taking us across the Nyr Dyv to Greyhawk City. I was paired up with the LN cleric of St. Cuthbert and by the end of that first session had him terrified of me. See, Arminas used a kusari-gama (basically a sickle on the end of a 5’ long weight chain); and I practiced my katas in our cabin. Swinging that razor sharp sickle over and over again inches above the cleric’s nose as he lay on his bunk. And Steve was in on it as well! He loudly announced that since the ship was moving, I would have to take a -2 on my To-Hit rolls—and if I rolled a 1 or a 2, I would hit the cleric. (Before hand, I had told him I intended to be very careful and Steve secretly gave me a +4 bonus for doing so, but we didn’t the others!)

The player, not the character, but the player was sweating bullets, especially when I announced that I rolled a ‘3’. Steve smiled and asked ‘before or after the -2?’ And he began to breath again when I said ‘after’.

On the first night of our voyage, Arminas found the thief rummaging through his belongings. The thief turned around and held up a magical dagger that Arminas had been given by the Church—and announced that since he could better make use of it, it was now his. This thief was a real tough guy, played by a very good role-player with whom I was friends. I nodded, and asked him if he was certain he was going to take what was rightfully mine—and he said yep. What’re ya going do about it? Cry to the paladin?

At that moment, I was so happy that I had selected a Lawful Evil alignment. I let the thief leave with the dagger and then I made a plan. Next session, I shared it with Steve before the game began and he burst out laughing.

You see, for that edition, monks had speak with animals. So, I made friends with the rats, and the seagulls and the ship’s cats. I fed them, and I talked to them, and I convinced them that the thief was their mortal enemy. Within a week, I had managed to talk them into driving the thief out of his mind. When he went above the decks, the seagulls began to scream and flap around his face (and firing projectiles at him, the type of projectiles that came out of their rear, if you know what I mean). The rats chewed up his bedroll, his straw mattress, his pack, his spare clothing. The cat’s gave birth in the mess and sprayed his face at night while he tried to sleep.

And I? I began spreading a rumor throughout the crew that the thief was obviously cursed by the Gods—otherwise why would the animals be treating him such? Soon, he became a pariah. His food had rat droppings and cat urine in it; he couldn’t bathe on deck without getting covered in seagull guano. He couldn’t sleep. He couldn’t rest. My character literally drove his insane.

And then, I told him. I was protected from thieves by the powers of my Gods. And all of this was the result of a curse from him stealing from me. He begged me to lift the curse, and offered back my dagger. I refused, saying that he had wanted the blade and the blade he now had. He offered me his ring of protection as well, and I smiled and agreed to lift his curse. The very night before we docked in the City of Greyhawk.

Guy had a nervous tick about setting foot on boats ever since and never, ever stole from me again.

Several months later (and after I had gained a new level by defeating an 8th-level monk master, woo-hoo!), we were busy getting into the meat and potatoes of our quest. And we found that we had several prisioners who were not cooperating and answering our questions. We needed their information, but they wouldn’t talk.

Enter me.

I offered to get them to talk, and that divided the party along alignment lines. The paladin refused to hear of torture, but the many of the rest knew we had to get the info. Finally, the paladin extracted a solemn oath from me that I would not torture the poor saps. I agreed, having just seen ‘The Untouchables’.

Demanding absolute solitude from the rest of the party—except for my two closest allies (the LN cleric of St. Cuthbert and a N gnome illusionist), I revealed my plan. The prisioners were tied to their chairs, while the cleric and illusionist began to interrogate them. Then I came in, slapping them around a little, and taking out a sharp knife. They got holier-than-thou, and forced me from the room. So I went outside, and right on cue, the illusionist said ‘oh my god, the other prisoner is out back!’

I slapped the corpse around a bit, making sure that the chair could be seen from inside the hut. And then, I said, tough guy, huh. You don’t want to talk? You don’t want to talk! And I took out the knife, and began to cut away fingers and the dead man’s nose and ears—as the illusionist created the most vile high-pitched screams anyone had ever heard. And then, I cut out the corpse’s tongue and hacked off his head.

Drenched with blood, I stormed back in—and right on cue, the cleric of St. Cuthbert said, I ain’t gonna stop him, not now, not when he is filled with blood lust. And he walked out. So there I was, holding a severed head, and both of the prisoners began begging me to listen to them as they spilled their guts.

Now the paladin was mad as Hades and drew her sword on me, swearing to run me through for breaking my oath—when the gnome said ‘he didn’t torture anyone; hell, he didn’t touch a living soul once.’

And the cleric confirmed it.

It was the game that was perhaps the most fun-filled I have every played in. Because I remembered two very important rules for playing evil: don’t do it to your fellow players unless they really deserve it (and even then, keep it non-lethal), and always keep your word so they know they can trust you, even if they hate your character’s guts. By following those two simple rules I was able to play Arminas until he reached 14th level in ’94. And I enjoyed every minute of it, along with the people with whom I played. He never betrayed them, and he never broke his sworn word, although he was a right bastard at times. His evil he reserved for his foes that deserved it, not for his own companions.

And that, my friends, is the key to playing evil well.

Master Arminas


In my opinion, HASBRO should get out of the roleplaying game business altogether. Turning D&D from the iconic pre-eminent game it once was to the 4E failure it has become is a monument to their corporation's ignorance about roleplaying games and its insensitivity to the role-playing community.

(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Tales, Battles Case, GameMastery Maps Subscriber)

I refuse to buy any more WOTC D&D products. I stopped at 3.5. I'll let someone else continue to waste their money on new core rulebooks every 4 years or so. The world already has enough fantasy RPG materials. We do not need more of what is already available (older editions of D&D, and non-D&D systems).


Best quote from a charmed victim:

"So we're saying he did a spell just to make us think he was cool? That is so cool!"
Xander, Superstar, Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Qadira (Paizo Charter Superscriber)

HEY!!! HE JUST CAST CHARM PERSON ON ME!!!!

But, you know... I don't guess it's a big deal. He's a real nice guy, after all.


Who DOESN'T have spellcraft these days?


Ashiel,

I think the reason you find these NPCs so unreasonable is that you are making an incorrect assumption about them.

Let's use your logic: My 3rd level fighter is in the big city to have a few ales and spend some of the gps he's picked up with his party in the nearby dungeon. He turns a corner to head for an armory, only to find that the square ahead of him is full of beggars. He should immediately turn and find some other way to go, because if the encounter turns hostile he'll get shanked, but good, by all those rogues.

Wrong.

Those beggars don't need to be statted out, because they're not really an encounter. Chances are my fighter will wade through them, brushing off hands and snarking about them getting jobs. (Unless he's a kind-hearted man with a "G" in his alignment, in which case he'll toss out a handful of coppers.) Stats are unimportant, because the guy with no legs and filth fever tooling around in a wheeled box is not an XP-worthy encounter.

Now, let's say while making his way through the square, my fighter makes a really good Perception check. He notes a one-legged beggar leaning on a crutch lift his belt pouch, full of coins he was going to spend at the armory. He starts to protest. Then, suddenly, the "beggar" sprouts another leg and jams his crutch up into my fighter's family jewels (sneak attack), and then takes off. Now we have an encounter. Now that beggar statblock from the book comes into play, because this is an encounter for the fighter to interact with on a level that requires a statblock, and a possible XP award.

"Real" stats for "real" NPCs aren't necessary, because the actions of most of those people aren't going to come into play in a regular game. Shopkeepers, barkeeps, and temple priests will sell their wares to PCs without so much as a single die being rolled. It's background stuff. Why? Because those people are boring. They're vehicles necessary to get the PCs out of the mundane and back into the adventure. To assume that every NPC of a certain type will use those stats is silly.

Silver Crusade (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber)

My thought is that if you rant about Fort saves of Barmaids and HPs of Village Idiots, you have way too much spare time on your hands. :)


You might be a killer GM if:

The players go "bowling for traps" by sliding monster corpses down corridors to set them off because the thief couldn't possibly make every roll necessary to find them all.

Sadly, this actually happened in one of my games. :P


Monks suffer from a unique affliction that is quite obvious when you observe all the threads about them.

Almost everyone sees the monk and tries to compare it to a fighter.

This weird sort of view is a result of everyone holding onto the ideal of the Advanced D&D monkl, which WAs a match for the fighter. After 3.0 they were seriously dropped in power, and no one ever bothered to correct this viewpoint. Pathfinder did, but they didn't make it obvious enough.

Monks are not a full melee class - the only class you should be comparing a monk to is a rogue, not a fighter.
-3/4 BAB.
-Skills centered on movement and dealing with people.
-A conditional attack that does atypical amounts of damage: the Flurry of Blows (this is the one that fools everyone into thinking they're some kind of fighter class, when it should be looked at like the rogues sneak attack and treated as such).
-A host of abilities designed to help deliver singular attacks backed by save-or-suck and save-or-lose abilities OR to help them get to where allies can be helped to do the most effective attacks possible (repositioning enemies for spells to take effect, flanking with rogues, getting the potion of healing to a badly injured ally, etc.).
-medium AC (similar to the bard, summoner, alchemist, and other 3/4 combatants who are not full casters).
-Abilities and saves that make them less likely to be affected by powers and abilities that would render other characters helpless or out of the fight.

This is touched upon by their role explanation in the Core book:
Monks excel at overcoming even the most daunting perils, striking where it's least expected, and taking advantage of enemy vulnerabilities. Fleet of foot and skilled in combat, monks can navigate any battlefield with ease, aiding allies wherever they are needed most.

Yet everyone tries to play monks like they are fighters, rather than what they are designed to be played as - a 3/4 BAB non-full-caster who has a set of abilities designed to hinder enemies and make it easier for other people to kill them, rather than directly killing enemies themselves. The problem with monks tends to be the player's mindsets, more than anything mechanical.

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