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I also would like to see a Spheres of Power character sheet. I imagine it could be styled after the Neceros sheet with additional columns in the 'CLASS' section for CL, Spell Pool, etc.
N. Jolly wrote:
Honestly, I dont think that Legendary Talents should have any requirements besides Sphere and Talent Prerequisites. My reasoning is that for the most part the requirements on Advanced Talents were made due to 'world shattering' ability, 'potential abuse', or 'sheer power' but that is not the case Legendary Talents if I understand correctly.
I agree, if the writers of SoM want to keep 'Proficiency' talents, atleast make them less taxy. This can be done by making the Armor Proficiency talent grant Light, Medium, and Heavy Armor proficiency by taking it once; making the Shield Proficiency talent grant Light, Heavy, and Tower shield proficiency by taking it once, etc.
By forcing someone to take a talent multiple times to gain other proficiency, you are inforcing a tax. If someone is intending to use Heavy Armor, than taking the talent twice or three times means that they were taxed one or two talents for proficiency they dont intend to use.
I disagree with you. In fact, you seem to disagree with you, given that you note that the armor system is internally balanced. Heavier armor proficiencies are add-ons, not necessities, and every practitioner class can do their job exceedingly well with the proficiencies they have. A blacksmith who wants to wear a breastplate and fight with whip fiend is looking at three talents (which he gets), and he'll be doing stuff core martials can't for several levels. Most of the proficiency packages also offer multiple exotic weapons now, meaning that each one package opens up a plethora of combat options, articularly when combined with the new Equipment dedications. He's also going to continue to accumulate talents and feats every level thereafter, meaning his combat proficiency and functionality are going to continue to grow outward faster than core martials, until classes like barbarian, paladin, and ranger start playing catch up with their spells, companions, and Su options. If the martial classes were buffed up much more, they'd be better at low levels than some of the strongest...
I have to agree that by making 'proficiency taxes' you are still encouraging martial/caster disparity. I also see no problem with having the SoM classes being more "powerful" than core martial classes, they suck anyways.
Take a look at the level 1 blacksmith. If he spends all his talents just to get the armor, weapon, and shield proficiency he wants. What can he 'do' at 1st level?
Compare that to a level 1 armorist. He does not need to spend talents to get proficiency, although he could if he wanted. Instead he can spend his talents to cover the same bases of the Blacksmith, and still coming out on-top.
I am not ofcourse mentioning feat use, because they both have feats. But as you can see, just giving the blacksmith a couple more proficiencies (shield + medium armor) would allow the Blacksmith to be more on-par with the Armorist.
And you know what is sad? The armorist is arguably the WEAKEST of all SoP casters, which would mean that at 1st level, the Blacksmith is actually weaker than the weakest of SoP casters.
I would like to see a version that makes as much sense for evil or chaotic neutral characters as the current version does for good and lawful. Maybe changing the restriction to good and providing archetypes for evil, lawful, and chaotic options. Although that would likely be a lot of work.
I just wanted to say that if they make the Paragon class restricted to good alignment and then included archetypes for evil, lawful, chaotic, and maybe even true neutral options, then they can each be written to make sense.
For Example, if written and fluffed for the Skybourne setting:
The base Paragon could be focused in protecting the weak (or Destroying the Oppressive).
My issue with spherefighter is that I am quite certain that there will eventually be a Sphere of Might archetype for the Fighter class, and would like to avoid future confusion when someone refers to the Sphere Fighter (fighter archetype) vs a Spherefighter (SoM system user).
I personally prefer "spheremartial"
I don't think we have any spheres covering Linguistics though, and most of the Diplomacy options are class-specific instead of sphere associated.
I could definitely see an April Fools expansion for Linguistics that is a "Word-Play sphere" Something similar to OotS "Dashing Swordsman" where making a successful Linguistic's check allows adding Charisma to various rolls such as attack, damage, saves, etc.
...kind of have an admittedly zany mental image of someone surfing down a mountainside on a giant greatsword or tower shield, possibly with other members of the party trying to balance on it...
I also want to second the idea of shield surfing, not just the LotR shield surfing that Legolas does, but also the kind that is done in DreamWorks Sinbad: Legend of the Seven Seas
The way I would go about that would be to make a ritual that mimics the effects of the restoration spell. It would result in a 1-hour ritual that costs 1050 gp in materials. It avoids stepping on the toes of the advanced talent, as that only requires a single standard action to use making it viable in combat or other stressful situations.
I would also suggest using rituals for the same reasons.
I was looking at the fortified casting boon and saw that it doesn't affect spell points.
While it doesnt say it explicitly, it in-fact does affect your spell pool. Spheres of Power, pg 9 states the following:
Spell Points wrote:
...Each caster gains a pool of spell points equal to their class level plus their casting ability modifier.
Because Fortified Casting lets you use your Constitution modifier as your Casting Ability Modifier, you infact can use it to determine spell points.
Actually the trait explicitly includes spell points (emphasis mine)
Choose any one mental ability score, you use that score as your casting ability score for any sphere casting classes you have, thus affecting the use of spheres, talents, spell points, etc.
Some very minor things to note:
1st, you may be able to grant 3-4 traits at CASTER LEVEL 6 (with the Advanced Talent). But being caster level 6 does not mean the same thing for everyone. For example:
So, even assuming that the character in question is not only CL 6, but level 6 aswell, that sort of limits us to High-Casters and the Shifter (neither of which benefit from their own pounce ability at that level). In addition, in order to give all the abilities you listed, you would need the following talents (not including the Alteration sphere:
A shifter would have to spend ALL his talents on acquiring these to do all this. A soul weaver would have only 1 talent remaining to either spend on the Alteration talents or to acquire a new sphere.
In other words, it would be a heavy investment, as opposed to a single spell slot (with Vancian spellcasting).
Sorry to burst your bubble, but multiattackers at level 6 aren't exactly something new (Animal Companions, Beast Form, Eidolons, etc). The Alteration sphere doesn't change that. But unless the targets of the shapeshift also invest in feats such as Multiattack, they may find their secondary attacks missing more often than not.
Aramil Wellys wrote:
How does it compare with the standard magic system, in particular will it make those using the standard magic system feel either underpowered or even useless?
Spheres of Power is considered generally weaker than the standard magic system. It however allows for thematic character concepts otherwise impossible to accomplish at low levels (such as a space/time wizard who is able to teleport aswell as freeze time at level 1, or shapeshifter who can turn into a dragon at level 1, etc etc). While these concepts may sound 'overpowered' they are actually very well balanced. However, because Spheres of Power encourages characters built around themes, it is difficult if not impossible to be a 'batman wizard' or 'god-wizard' caster who has solutions to 'all the problems'. Instead, you will be able to do One or Two things REALLY WELL or alot of things poorly (depending on how much you invest in each sphere).
An Alteration sphere specialist is in my opinion the most versatile (especially with the release of the Shapeshifter's Handbook).
As for most restrictive, I think a Life sphere specialist will be the most restrictive. They are capable of only one thing, heal (unless you are against undead).
All the other spheres have several utilitarian abilities. Luckily in the case with the Life sphere, a Hedgewitch with the spiritualism tradition only needs a couple Life sphere talents and can simply grab 'restore X' or 'restore Y' talents whenever it becomes necessary.
Aolis Greenborn wrote:
Is the base creation sphere redundant with protection sense I can create barriers in place of things like walls?
If you were only going to use creation to create walls, than sure. But just for completeness sake, lets look at each more closely. (Assuming CL 7)
Barriers w/ Creation sphere: Hardness 5; HP 10; four 10-ft x 10-ft x 1-in wall (becomes eight at CL 8); Duration Concentration (or 7 hours w/ Lengthened Creation)
Barriers w/ Protection sphere: Hardness 0: HP 11; Break DC 18, 45 radius surrounding caster (or seven 10-ft cube barriers w/ Greater Barrier); Duration 7 rounds.
However Creation has several other uses besides creating walls, infact there is alot of versatility in that sphere. Infact many challenges may be able to be simplified just by creating a mundane item.
Aolis Greenborn wrote:
Would a staff of conjuration be worth it or is something like a staff of destruction way more useful?
That depends, what would the enhancement bonus of the staff be? If it will only be a +1 Staff, than it will do the following:Conjuration - Wont affect summon's Stats, but will grant an additional +1 on attack rolls and skill checks.
Creation - Increases/Doubles the size/number of objects created.
Destruction - +1 die (when spending a SP), and +1 Save DC.
Divination - Sense duration last +1 hour.
Protection - Aegis duration last +1 hour, slightly larger barriers.
Time - +1 Save DC, duration +1 round.
Warp - teleport slightly further away.
Honestly with your spheres, the "best choices" would probably be Creation, Destruction, or Protection. Everything else (at this level) only be slightly buffed with +1 CL.
@Aolis Greenborn: Remember that with the Divination sphere, you gain FREE alternate divinations each time you acquire a new sphere. Thus, you gain the following alternate divinations for free:
Divine Unnaturals (Conjuration) - Divine the presence of outsiders and aberrations.
@Gobo Horde: Seems that some of the things like Material Casting and Magical Signs ought to have options to be specific to certain spells (yes, I see where it talks about General Drawbacks and Sphere-Specific Drawbacks, but a little more customizability could be helpful (even within one spell, how about something like you can cast the basic version with no Material components, but if you want the really good version, you have to shell out for it . . . .
Ever hear of alchemical power components? Most of them can be adapted to work with Spheres of Power with little effort (especially with the Destruction sphere, since the Destroyer's Handbook added descriptors to each energy type).
I haven't checked anywhere near the whole wiki -- in fact this is the first time I have seen it (although I have heard Spheres of Power mentioned before), but I did notice after some searching through it that number of spell points, etc. that you get seems to be covered in individual class descriptions, while expenditure of spell points seems to be covered in Sphere descriptions. Neither bit of information is in the home page, so you will just have to explore A LOT to learn what you need.
The last line in the paragraph entitled 'Spheres of Power' says the following: "...For more information about the mechanics, see 'Using Spheres of Power' below."
Just below that there is a blue link entitled "Using Spheres of Power". Clicking on said link will bring you here which explains how spheres of power actually works.
How does the Mystic Theurge fair with sphere casting?
I suppose it functions somewhat if one is standard vancian spellcasting class such as a wizard, while the other is spheres casting class such as the incanter. But it is either somewhat pointless or overpowered with two sphere casting classes because magic progression in spheres of power works like BAB, any magic talents or caster levels you gain from one class stack with any magic talents or caster levels you gain from another class (unlike standard classes which keep track of spells per day, spell lists, spells known, and caster level separately).
@ CalethosVB & GM Rednal, incase you were wondering why I posed the questions is because I intend to help him convert the character from the ground up.
In regards to my comment asking how he plays combat, I am trying to figure out what spheres would be best for him to focus with, instead of simply giving spheres that best emulate the spells he has prepared/known (although, I am not ruling that option out either).
In regards to my comment about spell versatility, I will either be recommending Incanter or Sphere Wizard (for maximum spheres and talents known), Sphere Arcanist (for trading out talents known each morning), or Spiritualist Hedgewitch (for spontaneous on the fly versatility); The above classes would in my opinion best emulate the character, but I am seeking input from Ouroboros himself on the subject.
Okay so I could simply create and post a conversion of Aolis Greenborn, but that would be against the nature of this thread, as you wouldn't really learn the system.
With that in mind, tell me about Aolis, specifically the following:
How does he usually run combat? I see he has a variety of spells with no specific theme in mind. Note that Spheres of Power awards those with a particular theme, but it is not necessary.
How important is your spell versatility? If you had the choice would you prefer:
Knowing these will help us not only choose a class but what spheres to initially focus in.
The Wyrm Ouroboros wrote:
Spheres of Power is AFAIK not in Hero Lab, which I am leaning heavily on for my balancing and double-checking. (And if you use Hero Lab, please include a link to your character file(s) so I don't have to go through the labor of doing it all again.) If anyone knows of a SoP add-on for Hero Lab, let me know.
FYI, A simple google search for Spheres of Power Hero Lab will bring up this link.
As for learning Spheres of Power, I will say it is probably the easiest pathfinder system that I have ever come across. I am sure that when you finally create the 'Walk Me Through It' threads you will find it short.
Everything looks like it checks out. Just be careful about using destructive blast. Most people I know who take the Draining Magic drawback focus in Spheres with Hours per Level duration such as Protection (Aegis) and Divination (Sense) talents. But as long as you are careful about it, you should be fine.
I have considered it, but I don't think that's to be. The Spellburst Savant relies too much on the vancian casting framework to adjust to Spheres well, and I don't think it'd be balanced if ported over.
That is too bad, however, if you want to take a look at my attempt to convert the Spellburst Savant to Spheres of Power, feel free to look below.
Sphereburster (Spellburst Savant Archetype)
Casting: A sphereburster may combine spheres and talents to create magical effects. A sphereburster is considered a Mid-Caster, and uses Wisdom as his casting ability modifier. (Note: All casters gain 2 bonus talents and may select a casting tradition the first time they gain the casting class feature.)
This replaces spells.
Spell Pool: A sphereburster gains a small reservoir of energy he can call on to create truly wondrous effects, called a spell pool. This pool contains a number of spell points equal to his level + his Wisdom modifier (minimum 1).
Magic Talents: A sphereburster gains a magic talent every time he gains a caster level.
Sphere Specialization: A sphereburster gains a sphere specialization of her choice from the list of sphere specializations included in the Incanter class description. This replaces the arcane bond class feature.
Modular Casting Tradition: A sphereburster's claim to mastery of the arcane arts comes from his ability to intuitively adjust his casting tradition as needed. At 1st level, he gains Eschew Materials as a bonus feat. If a sphereburster has a casting tradition with the emotional cating, somatic casting, or verbal casting general drawbacks, he can choose to exchange one
This modifies deconstruct components.
Nova Spell: Once per round, a sphereburster can modify a sphere talent or ability as a "nova." By incorporating a massive burst of energy at just the right time, he can modify his casting as he sees fit. When he casts a nova spell, he can spontaneously apply any metamagic feats he possesses with a total level adjustment of +0 to the sphere talent or ability without increasing its casting time or increase the spell points needed to cast the sphere talent or ability. This is in addition to any existing metamagic effects on the spell, though he cannot spontaneously apply metamagic feats in excess of those allowed by this ability at the same time (metamagic rods, however, may still be used in conjunction with this class feature).
This modifies nova spell.
Arcane Study: At 2nd level, as a standard action, you may grant yourself the benefit of any one magic talent or metamagic feat you don’t possess. This effect lasts for 1 minute. You must meet all of the feat’s prerequisites, or if gaining a magic talent other than a base sphere, you must possess
This replaces extracurricular study.
Absorb Spell (Su): At 4th level, a sphereburster gains the ability to absorb and repurpose the magic of others. Once per day, when the sphereburster is targeted by or caught in the area of a sphere, spell, spell-like ability, power, or psi-like ability that originates from another creature, he can attempt a Will save against that effect as an immediate action (calculate the save DC as if the spell or effect prompted a Will save; for example, a fireball cast by a wizard with an Intelligence
This modifies absorb spell.
Nova Counter (Su): At 7th level, a sphereburster gains the Counterspell feat as a bonus feat.
This modifies nova counter.
Deconstruct Ownership: At 20th level, a sphereburster is so skilled at modulating spell effects that he can wrestle control of effects from others. A number of times per day equal to his Wisdom modifier, he can attempt a Will saving against a sphere, spell, spell-like ability, power, or psi-like ability whose origin or effect is within 100 feet of him (including one targeting him). Calculate the save DC as if the spell or effect prompted a Will save; for example, a summon monster IX cast by a wizard with an Intelligence of 20 would prompt a DC 24 Will save. The sphereburster must be able to perceive the effect in some way.
This modifies deconstruct ownership.
Gestalt with Spheres of Power doesn't really work very well.
I would personally recommend one of the following:
A) Players may only have ONE spherecasting class per Gestalt combination (i.e. you could be Mageknight 1/Incanter 5//Alchemist 1/Fighter 5, but you couldn't be Mageknight 1/Fighter 5//Incanter 1/Alchemist 5)
B) Players only get spell points from both classes (Talents are acquired from the highest granting spherecasting class)
C) Players only get talents from both classes (Spell Points are acquired from the highest granting spherecasting class)
3) Chopping down trees - This one seems a lot simpler. Wood has hardness 5, and 10 hp per inch of thickness. The issue is that there's a question as to whether or not that's too much for "just" chopping a tree down, since usually that's enough to open up a 5-foot square in a wall.
If you are indeed using Spheres of Power, the Geomancer's Handbook has basic stats for different sized trees (which may be useful), you can see the table here (if you scroll down a little).
DM Papa.DRB wrote:
Spheres of Power, pg 8, paragraph 2, 3rd sentence wrote:
Unlike spells, however, sphere abilities do not require gestures or magic words, nor are they divided between Arcane and Divine sources (although Chapter 5 of this book details Casting Traditions--a way for players and GMs to re-introduce these particulars and distinctions).
Spheres of Power, pg 153, paragraph 2, 3rd sentence wrote:
Likewise, while arcane casters from the core Pathfinder system must chant, gesture, and provide material to cast spells and cannot use magic effectively while wearing armor, an SoP caster requires little more than a thought to create a magical effect, regardless of their situation.
Spheres of Power, pg 153, paragraph 3 wrote:
Casting traditions are comprised of general drawbacks, sphere-specific drawbacks, and boons. General drawbacks and boons must be selected when the caster gains their first level in a casting class, while sphere-specific drawbacks are gained when the character first gains the sphere they modify.
Spheres of Power, pg 158, General Drawback: Somatic Casting wrote:
I hope these quotations from the book help to answer your question.
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