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Man in Mask

Grokken's page

52 posts. No reviews. 1 list. No wishlists.


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Gauss wrote:

The Golembane Scarab only works with Golems, sorry.

However, it should be relatively easy to use the Golembane Scarab as precedent for a Clockwork Scarab, so long as the type of construct is restricted to a group and not the entire class of constructs. However, it would have to be approved by your GM.

Fortunately I am the GM.. but I'm brainstorming loot ideas and ways the players will try to power-up.


Would that work on Clockwork creatures? It says Golem specifically, not construct. So the further question is what is the difference between a Golem and a Clockwork construct. Golem are mainly Arcane while Clockwork is mostly Tech, yet each has a part in the other. Or should there be a ***** of Clockworkbane?


DM Jeff wrote:

Here's how my DMV campaign went a couple years back:

Into the Haunted Forest
Crown of the Kobold King
Howl of the Wolf (Necromancer Games' Glades of Death)
Timber Rivalry (Necromancer Games' Glades of Death)
Revenge of the Kobold King
Hungry are the Dead
Tower of the Last Baron
Treasure of Chimera Cove
The Volcano Caves (Dungeon Crawl Classic #19)
Beyond the Vault of Souls
Winter Council
Valbryn Morlydd (WotC's Exemplars of Evil)

I also watched the first 10 episodes of the series Deadwood for town flavor and based the mayor off of Gene Hackman's character in The Quick and the Dead.

Hackman... Dude that's perfect.


Idea so far:

Darkmoon Vale area with Cheliax/Aspis Consortium attempting to draw the Eagle Knights away from disrupting so much of the slave trade. I'm thinking that the Consortium is having a bit of a break with House Thrune over the recent rebellion and by using clockworks keep both Cheliax and Andoran guessing at the real purpose.

Modules currently planned:
Hollow's Last Hope
Crown of the Kobold King
I plan to adjust those to add some clockwork to the modules, specifically suggest that the disease was added by clockworks. I'm amusing myself with the idea of clockwork kobolds in the lower levels.

Siege of Durgam's Folly.
It's full of clockwork and fits in quite well with the location.

Beyond that I am looking for possible modules to work in for the higher levels.

I know I am probably way off canon here, but my players will never see it coming.. and that is kinda the point.


Thomas LeBlanc wrote:
Goth Guru wrote:

How about an infernal combustion engine that they feed by drinking oil?

Lamp oil, crude oil, or for a real pick me up, alchemist fire.

See the power source idea for the lantern sentinel in first post. I am not posting any of my other clockworks, since my players have not encountered/defeated the rest I created yet.

Goth Guru wrote:
Do some research on Babbage's decision engine. A gear driven mind needn’t be stupid. Have one get possessed by a poltergeist and you have a possible mechanical PC.

I know about it. That is why the sentinels are not blind and can follow directions/programs. Thinking for themselves is a different matter.

But the poltergeist idea is intriguing. A ghost in a machine... Never been done before I see...

My mind is now awash in plots and schemes... muhahahhaha


Eltacolibre wrote:

Rakshasha are badass. There isn't really any opposite to them, the fact that they even think that the gods are just powerful beings put them on another spectrum when it comes to beliefs and everything else. Still tho, what about you get creative with it?

A Celestial Rakshasha , like a white tiger/dove/Lion would be different, maybe this celestial Rakshasha is trying to foil the plans of other powerful member of his race and contact your players to help them with the situation.

Here's a little bit of the back story. A sorcerer of the Raksasha bloodline has found his spells are going awry. Best he and others can tell is that at some point the ancestor(they are unaware of the true bloodline, tribal history calls him celestial) was captured and his soul imprisoned and used to power some sort necromantic artifact built by priests of Orcus. (yeah this is going to turn very ugly) So the young sorcerer is off on a quest to rescue or at least return his ancestor into the wheel of reincarnation wholly unaware that he is releasing a millennia old evil of limitless potential. It's a good bet that a number of good aligned creatures would prefer this not to happen, but in order to save his people.. he's got to release the ancestor. The Celestial Raksasha would be interesting, I've the feeling that if one ever turned "good" he'd be hunted by all the others just for that slight.


MMCJawa wrote:
Samsarans aren't outsiders and can't shapeshift, but thematically could be considered the opposite of Raksasha.

That is a VERY good idea, the reincarnation aspect does tie in well.

Mojorat wrote:
Agathion would likely be the opposite they basically reprisent souls of the purest notions. Rakshasha however are corrut and cought in a never ending reincarnatiin cycle. Anyhow both ideas are from indian mythology but its been some time since i read te article on rakshasha.

Also a very good idea, and one I am now looking at. As they are "meddlers" that would fit in as well.

Buri wrote:
Opposites don't always have the same abilities. Empyreal lords are opposite demon lords but not all empyreal lords have change shape like demon lords do. Just an FYI.

True enough, I did say probably. I was also thinking they might have a strong ability to cut through illusion and deception. Both suggests have good possibilities to work as allies against Raksasha plans.


Is there a polar opposite to the Raksasha? A race of beings that do exactly the opposite, are "born" the same way but have the opposing alignment and agenda?

It would be a Native Outsider, good aligned, and probably a shape-shifter of some sort.

I'm sifting through as many of the creatures books I've got but nothing looks quite right. Any suggestions?


I'm doing something similar, though I am making him a disgruntled but ambitious pawn of the Aspis Consortium. The Baron is also a pawn, just higher up the food chain. The end goal being that Cheliax gains control of the Darkmoon Vale and all its lovely resources.


I'm looking at doing this as well. But with the group I'm going to be doing this with I will need to chop it up in a very weird way. (Jobs and other issues make full group play iffy.)

My plan is to make the Aspis Consortium the BBEG and have Kreed be one of the toadies working for them. The basic plot is that elements from Cheliax are trying to destabilize the area enough for local leaders who have been co-opted or that will soon be replaced, to secede from Andoran back to Cheliax. I'm also increasing the size of Falcon's Hollow to use it as the focal point of all the machinations. Using Grey Citadel from Necromancer games as the Falcon's Hollow of this campaign.

Hopefully I'll be able to use local politics to fill in low turn out nights and keep everyone hooked.

My questions for those who have used these modules.

Did anyone try to make the Blackscour taint an attack on the town and have a suspect for your pcs? If so, how'd that work for ya?

Anyone have a good suggestion for one-offs that might run as political/espionage modules?


DeathQuaker wrote:

So let's see if I understand this correctly (summarizing from the above and from the rules):

True Seeing does NOT allow you to see someone who is simply using Stealth to hide. (PRD: "True seeing does not help [...] spot creatures who are simply hiding.")

Hide In Plain Sight allows you to "use the Stealth skill even while being observed."

For the Assassin and the Shadowdancer, Hide in Plain Sight is a Supernatural ability.

True Seeing allows you to "see all things as they actually are" (including past magical illusions). So the question is--can True Seeing allow you to see past the supernatural elements the Assassin and the Shadowdancer are using to Hide in Plain sight? As it CANNOT, RAW, see past the actual use of the Stealth Skill?

Neither True Seeing, nor the HiPS descriptions, nor the description of what a Supernatural ability is clear this up.

Things to consider:
- Dispel Magic does not affect supernatural abilities. Antimagic Field does. I realize this is sort of a vague stretch here, but do you think True Seeing works more akin in spirit to Dispel Magic or Antimagic Field? Personally I'd be inclined to say it's more akin to Dispel Magic, and thus would not affect Supernatural abilities, but I can see this being argued in other ways.

- As mentioned, the Ranger version of Hide in Plain Sight is Extraordinary, not Supernatural, so definitely would not be affected by True Seeing.

- If the "supernatural" shadows are helping hide the Assassin or Shadowdancer, does that negate the use of the Stealth Skill itself? And therefore, if that "supernatural"ness is seen through does that mean the use of the Stealth skill is cancelled, or merely penalized?

There is no clear answer, but I would be inclined to approach this one of two ways:

1. True Seeing does not negate/see through ANY form of Hide in Plain Sight, so as not to make the Ranger version more powerful than the Assassin/Shadowdancer version.

or

2. True Seeing DOES see through the "supernatural" aspects of...

Thank you, that was coherent and just what I needed this morning! Makes good sense to me. It will get word lawyered later today.. but I think it'll hold up.


James Jacobs wrote:
Lazaro wrote:
What no love for the Peacock? You make my evil, mulitcolored god angry V_V
The Peacock Spirit is a dead god. Or if he's not dead, she's effectively dead, since he no longer has contact with her minions. If it was indeed ever a god to begin with. What exactly the Peacock Spirit is and was and might one day be again is still a mystery.

I'm seeing the Peacock Spirit as a NE Creature of the WAY out outer planes, a Nyarlahotep who is just a little too self-distracted to do active evil. The possiblity of contacting it is still there but, you have to either do the massive research or do it by a fluke. The cleric in one of my campaigns is about to learn that. XD Having domains that will attract the attention of it when used in one of its old temples. The cleric has a fairly single-minded drive for more knowledge and for runes... should be fun.

And by Neutral Evil... I mean Neutral ALIEN.


Reading the description for Reincarnate makes me wonder if that would actually work.

It states :A creature that has been turned into an undead creature or
killed by a death effect can’t be returned to life by this spell.: pg. 331 core book.

Does that mean that once turned into a wight he is unable to be reincarnated until he is again slain, or that once the animation has been effected upon his body, it can no longer be affected by reincarnate?

I intend to allow it to work on him, mainly for story possibilities. But knowing some in this party they may attempt to reincarnate the nymph as well. They do seem to be ... completists.


DM Nickademus wrote:

After Xanesha's demise, Justice Ironbriar has been slowly restablishing the cult, carefully assisting the PCs in handling PR for the destruction of the bell tower(known now as the "Night of Bells") which aroused all the hellnights within a 3 miles radius. Claiming to the Lord Mayor these individuals found and resolved the city of the skinsaw cult and their vicious leader, Xanesha. It was quite easy to avoid lie detection spells, and the justice has a certain gift in deflecting accusations.

Ironbriar's existence has however caused a new problem. The witch has attended social gatherings with the justice, enjoyed service and servants amid a host of the Justice's estates and all seemed well for the most part... until the witch made a minor mistake in demanding Ironbriar swear off the cult, his faith and going legitimate.

Since then, a new unpleasantness has transpired, Lord Mayor Haaldmeer Grobaras has been assasinated, a carved sigil in his chest, he was last seen speaking with the PCs. Justice Ironbriar quickly warned the PCs the Red Mantis may be behind the murder and made arrangments to safely escort them past the gates and outside the city.

Justice Ironbriar~ "You must leave, and leave now. The Red Mantis may think you are involved with the Lord Mayor and word is they are seeking you now."
Witch~ "Why cant we stay hidden with you. Where will we go?"
Justice Ironbriar~ "It is not safe here. They have seen you with me at gatherings, who hasn't. At this very moment, Hellknights are interrogating my servants trying to reach you first and you dont want to know how persuasive they can be.

Yes, you must go. To the east and a little North you must make your way to Turtleback Ferry and then to a little known hold named, Fort Rannick. It is at the farthest reach of the city and should be a safe place until the assasins are caught or have given up."
Witch~ "When do we come back?"
Justice Ironbriar ~ "I will send message by raven. The Black Arrows, a group of rangers reside there. They are isolationists...

That is Epicness... Truly.


Bacchreus wrote:

Well this is my attempt with apologies to George RR. Hope to see some other versions and opinions.

Storm clouds gather on the Storval, and now my watch begins.
It shall not end until my death.
I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children.
I shall repent my past transgressions.
I shall live and die on my ranging.
I am the arrow in the darkness.
I am the scouter of the wilderness.
I am the fire that burns the unclean, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards Magnimar.
I pledge my life and honour to the Black Arrows, for this day and all those that follow.

I'd agree with all but the "take no wife" There were apparently those that were "born" into the Black Arrows. One of the survivors, Vale, was born into the Arrows.

Maybe make it, My children shall follow after me until the end of our line. In some ways the Black Arrows are not just a job, it is a "Calling".


Dark Sasha wrote:
Grokken wrote:

Could have sworn I'd seen them statted up somewhere here, search fu mocks me today. Anyone have them statted?

This isn't exactly an answer to your question. But the Seven Swords of Sin module from Paizo's 3.5 days had one of the swords statted up, the Sword of Lust I believe. The other six were listed but not detailed.

yeah, I noted that. But I'm looking to see if anyone has done the work on the other six. AFAIK they don't appear anywhere other than that module. I believe the Sword of Greed is in Spires... I should also check there... duh. :)


Could have sworn I'd seen them statted up somewhere here, search fu mocks me today. Anyone have them statted?


It has occurred to me to have Vorel possess Aldern. In one of my campaigns (running RotRL concurrently) they left Alderns body in the lab with the Vorel fungus goo... I thought it might be interesting to have the fungus take over the body and stalk the party later. No idea beyond that, but the gross out factor (and the fact that one of the parties completely dismissed Aldern as the bad guy.) Makes me want to up the ante just a tad.


Abraham spalding wrote:

A city block of housing costs 3 BP each BP is worth 4,000 gp. Each city block is about 750 feet squared. So that's 12,000 gp for a 750 feet square number of houses. The population of a city block is 9,000 gp. This doesn't take into account that "A fair number of additional residential structures are common amid most one and two block structures".

So I would suggest that you probably could do about 500 gp per house. Just so you know a tenement sort of deal (aka ghetto) runs for 1 BP for a block.

All this information is from the "Rivers run red" book of the Kingmaker AP (part 2 of 6).

The game mastery guide also has information on city building that could be of help breaking down the cost of housing.

Finally a Mansion (of one city block) is 10 BP (40,000gp) for one family and its servants while a Noble Villa is 24 bp (96,000gp) and takes two city blocks.

Let me note here the following:

1. For a 5th level character, paying 12,000 for a house for 30 people of which he has 4.
2. This is the smallest dwelling listed.
3. Comparing this to modern housing is at best a warped perspective. The amount of real world inflation on housing is pretty steep. There is a comparision (and I'd be hard pressed to find it, though I have it) of how inflation has risen since the 1300's using the price of grain and bread. One of the few stable items of our various economys.
4. The 30 person dwelling wasn't a manor house. Probably more like a boarding house... but even then.

For high powered moneyed characters its not a problem, but for low level who just want to get a start they are kinda stuck with out GM help... LOL.

Odd how this does relate to RW at times.


wow...

Love the idea for the Inn, that is something these guys would love to do. These are guys who came up with the idea of using a permanent freezing sphere as a walk-in freezer...

10 gold a month as a lease isn't bad, and the character being a Hero of Sandpoint plus a regular visitor with good standing in the community will get him a bit of a discount.

His plan is to take over Thistletop and start a community there, that's a few levels away and they still haven't dealt with Malfesh down below.


I tend to get the fluff books (companion et al) from Paizo and all else from my FLGS. This way I support both, but I also hate running games from a PDF.


Looking through my not too extensive collection of material, the best price I could find for a home (just residential, no labs or workshops added) was 12k for a 30 person house. That was in the Stronghold builders guide. I have players wanting just a place to live, nothing fancy. They want bedrooms, kitchen & dining and maybe a place to hang out, but not a freaking stronghold. (that will come later after a few more levels and will cost them :D) The main character's issue is that he has dependents (wife and two kids) and that he needs an actual home.

Not finding anything like that in any of my books. Anyone got a recommendation?

I'm of the opinion that with being a "hero" of Sandpoint that a dwelling would be at a discount and was considering 100 gold for a year. That doesn't seem to onerous to keep his family in the line of fire for a few more adventures.. heh.


One of the coolest creatures I've run across came from Cthulhu, the Worm that Walks. I made a variant (and never got to use it.. :( )that was a necromancer who's essence was absorbed into a swarm of flesh-eating beetles (think the Mummy movie, but smaller bugs). It was meant to be a BBEG for the party but the game got disrupted by the usual "life too busy" stuff... I later used it as a character (somewhat nerfed down) in another game. I like the idea of an intelligent swarm hiding amongst humans as passing himself off as "just that creepy magic-user guy."

Little did they know...


Tarondor wrote:
This is why I don't use XP. I award levels at appropriate points in the story.

To quote Barbosa from POC. "Their more like Guidelines." I have in the past just free-form awarded xp based more on How vs. What. Beat the problem with something pedestrian.. get regular xp suitable for the level. Think up something workable but outside the box and make me scramble and end up with some memorable... extra points. Heck try something foolish but entertain me and everyone else... why not. In the end its all for fun, if you have fun get full credit because THAT is the point.

That said I'll probably use the fast progression, and keep the flow of xp to get them where they need to be, or I need them to be. I can edit the encounters to meet the "waypoints".


Kalyth wrote:

I would allow a heal to crit not problem. What are the effects of a critical hit?

Per the rules an attack that scores a critical hit inflicts x2 damage if it has no other critical multiplier listed. So continuing with the rules a critical hit with a healing spell would inflict x2 damage. Simple.

How much damage does the healing spell inflict? Well none its healing hit points not inflicting damage. Oh so 2 times 0 (the amount of damage the healing effect is inflicing) is 0. I think my math is right.

Does Ray of Exhaustion have x2 effect on a critical? No becuase it doesnt inflict damage.

A healing effect does not gain a benefit from a critical attack roll. Though I see no problem if someone wants to house rule it.

Doesn't have to be x2, could just be max on the healing. I wouldn't do it on the cure spells, unless in combat. The heavenly fire being targeted as it is, that's a different sort of bean. Its also a lot less powerful than the cure spells. Critting with magic always makes my head hurt (so many variables) but I always apply the same rule. "If it breaks my game, it doesn't work." Heavenly fire is unlikely to break the game at 1d4+1/2 levels... max it will ever do will be just enough to keep someone alive.


The more I read on this the more I think that True Neutral will be the best for the alignment. Good/Evil don't really apply, Alien though does. Rune and Knowledge as Domains work perfectly, scholars as followers fits as well. I'm thinking something like a "non-malevolent" Nyarlohotep-like being. Fascinated by these strange short lived creatures drive to seek out the secrets of the universe. Helping not out of benevolence but out of its own selfish curiosity to see where it will all end up.


Lazaro wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Yeah... giving worshipers of the Peacock Spirit Trickery, Evil, Nobility, and Rune are all great choices. Aside from what we've revealed about this guy in Runelords, though...

Ah bummer, I haven't run across other mentions of the Peacock Spirit, apparently I'll need to do a bit more looking. Pathfinder 4 eh?


With a "no-deity" cleric in the game I'm running, I was considering have the character awaken an ancient deity with the domains she wanted to use (none of the book deities had the alignment/profile required). I'm seeing the Peacock Spirit as probably Neutral Good/Lawful Good and having Knowledge as one of the main Domains, though also healing.

Going by the theory that Gods don't die unless they are killed (Aroden's dead) I'm thinking that during the fall of Thassillon the Spirit faded into dormancy awaiting someone to awaken it once more. Since it was never determined to be Male/Female and had no apparent appearance as human I'm thinking this will drop some serious "you are messing with me" problems on the character.

I haven't run across anything outside of the first module where it mentions the spirit as being a deity that the Thassilonians worshipped. So I am definitely open to suggestions.


Damon Griffin wrote:
Herbo wrote:

Also in Skinsaw

** spoiler omitted **
My group nearly did the same thing, but fortunately the first arrow did minimum damage and provoked a muffled scream. I allowed the Bard a DC 20 Listen check to notice that the sound was somehow different from the cries the "other" ghouls had made as they were killed. Check made, death averted, and one embarrassed Bard (she was the one who'd shot the arrow.)

HEH, In the group I'm running the NG Cleric of Sarenrae was adamant about killing the ghouls/scarecrows and having the archer do it. Worked great until they checked one and found a not quite dead farmer who was still merely infected. Entire strategy change immediately. They were very lucky the shot didn't kill the farmer, a single point of damage and they might have been looking for a rez. I do enforce good players doing the RIGHT thing... even if it costs them.


James Jacobs wrote:

To the OP: Sorry you're not enjoying "Rise of the Runelords."

That said, a CR 12 monster is supposed to be tough. They assume that the PCs have access to high level spells and options other than direct toe-to-toe melee fighting. Not all monsters should be designed so that the best option is ALWAYS a toe-to-toe fight, and the lamia matriarch is, to a certain extent, one such example. Although when she does do a full attack and drains wisdom through her weapons, she's limited to only 1 point of drain per attack, not the full 1d6 points. So even if she somehow manages to hit six times in one round, she's not doing more wisdom drain in that round than if she made her one draining touch attack and rolled a 6 on the die. From the post, it sounds like this bit might have been overlooked by the GM...

That said, things like ability score drain and petrification and other pretty tough special attacks are generally assigned to monsters with the assumption that the PCs have access to the countermeasures. At CR 8 (the lamia matriarch's CR) we assume the PCs have access to restoration spells—a super efficient way to heal ability drain. If, as a GM, you run a game where your players DON'T have access to restoration spells, you should not use ability draining monsters. It's simply not cool.

A number of the encounters encourage and yes even require out of the box thinking. THAT is excellent design. I had two very experienced gamers totally panicked over the Quasit staying out of melee range They still grump about that. I love it.


Phasics wrote:

880'000 gold

What in particular would you buy to make up for a fighters shortcommings ?

Keep in Mind basic staple
+10 equiv armor 100+k
+10 equiv weapon 200+k

feel free to not list every item you'd buy and just the key item which you'd consider a must have.

basical stuff on consideration

Belt +6 STR + CON
Headband +6 WIS
amulet nat armor +5
ring protection +5
ring of regeneration
robe of resistence +5
boots of freedom of movement

handy haversack with a crapload of potions

what would you get for the magically challenged fighter?

Old Joke... Portable hole full of beer and a large land war.


Deidre Tiriel wrote:

I am also curious about this, as I have a sling staff in a game I'm playing in and am about to enchant it.

I kind of assumed it would be for the whole thing.

For example, it was a +1 flaming distance halfling sling staff, then the distance enchantment doesn't affect the use as a club. The flaming would affect the club and the bullets, though.

I'm considering that it might work on the whole but at a cost of 1.5 the normal for enchanting. Otherwise you are getting 2 for 1 on the enchant.


Ravingdork wrote:
It's clearly not a double weapon (if it were, it would say so) and so any enhancements to the weapon apply to all aspects of the weapon, provided you are using it in the way it was intended. If you are NOT using it in the intended manner, consult your GM for a ruling.

I can see boost enchantment working both ways, but not so sure that Flaming/frost would. Flaming/frost would transfer to the missile, but if you were to whack someone with your bow would you get it in melee?


3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

Would it count as a double weapon?

For ranged attacks just the sling, or would that also affect its use as a club?


bittergeek wrote:
Grokken wrote:

Here's a thought to further cloud the issue.

What if the cleric believed that there SHOULD be a god/dess that had a certain position. They believe perhaps that they are the only one that has considered this and are actively following and putting for the word. Of what are deities made? Are they constructs created from the faith of their followers? Are they manifest energies waiting to be shaped by the need of humanity? Could a powerful faith allow a nascent deity to manifest and take his/her place amongst the pantheon?

How you choose to represent the gods within the game may answer those questions. In my case I am allowing a player to create her own deity due to the fact that none of those existing fit what she plans for her character. By create I do not mean "Here's the deity that I wish to follow." I mean "Here's the concept I have." I'm thinking that I will allow the domains and let her awaken either a new deity, or perhaps an ancient forgotten deity. Either way there are possibilities for RP and for keeping the Mechanics from being over the top.

While I like the idea of small gods and fantasy deities being powered by belief, a religion of one just isn't going to be able to grant spells. That's a short step from "I worship myself and have decided to grant myself abilities. Hail, Me!" If, despite having no clerical power (unless granted by some other power for its own reasons, which you might be horrified to discover) you manage to grow the cult into the thousands, then you might start getting spells from your newly created deific being. Congratulations.

But I do like the idea of reawakening an ancient god.

The ancient option is my preferred as well, but the idea that there are nascent deities, powerful entities that just need a nudge to form into a less abstract form.. is intrigueing. And this is not to say that she is the only one with that belief. Dozens or more may be coming to the same conclusion at the same time.

As I remember (and its been a while since I read this) Clerical spells up to a certain level are more based on "faith" than "deity". To get higher level spells you did need to have contact with a powerful entity. (higher than second level as I recall, but I'm old :P)


Here's a thought to further cloud the issue.

What if the cleric believed that there SHOULD be a god/dess that had a certain position. They believe perhaps that they are the only one that has considered this and are actively following and putting for the word. Of what are deities made? Are they constructs created from the faith of their followers? Are they manifest energies waiting to be shaped by the need of humanity? Could a powerful faith allow a nascent deity to manifest and take his/her place amongst the pantheon?

How you choose to represent the gods within the game may answer those questions. In my case I am allowing a player to create her own deity due to the fact that none of those existing fit what she plans for her character. By create I do not mean "Here's the deity that I wish to follow." I mean "Here's the concept I have." I'm thinking that I will allow the domains and let her awaken either a new deity, or perhaps an ancient forgotten deity. Either way there are possibilities for RP and for keeping the Mechanics from being over the top.


Pathfinder Addict wrote:

Thanks tbug, I'd already found his answer by the time I got back to this thread. Here it is.

James Jacobs wrote:

Rumors are like that! The truth of what mills the Scarnettis may or may not be involved with will be revealed soon enough (in Pathfinder 4, in fact). They could even be innocent! Or they could just have some sort of hatred for ALL MILLS OF ALL KINDS!

But yeah... rumors. They're good sources of info, but you can't always trust them! :)

Only thing, from my reading of the Hinterlands map, none of those three mills are more than 4 miles from Sandpoint, and the locals (and certainly the DM) would KNOW what kind of mill each was.

There might be all sorts of speculation and rumor about the fires and who set them, but people would know whether they got flour or lumber from them before they burnt down.

In my campaign, this could go either way. The PCs have already picked up on the arson rumors as a plot hook and I've embellished (like telling them that no, the Sarnetti's haven't been making a killing in the grain market, but that lumber prices have shot up dramatically because of the competing demand for timber between the Valdamar shipbuilders and the Carpenters, who need lots of lumber to rebuild the burnt mills.

If two of the mills were grain and one lumber, that would actually fit what I told them just as well as if they were three grain mills.

That could work very nicely in my upcoming run of the AP... my other campaign party has completely ignored the burning of the mills. They never even scented it... apparently it smelled strongly of Red Herring.


sirmattdusty wrote:

I have a player who is playing a cleric of Norgorber, who is NE. The player wants to be of a Neutral alignment. According to the core rulebook, page 166, that should be within 'one step' of NE, being one step 'up' on the alignment chart. However....I was browsing the PathfinderWiki and saw that priests of Norgorber can only be LE, NE, or CE. http://pathfinder.wikia.com/wiki/Norgorber

Is this true? Should I accept the information in the wiki over the core rules? Is the wiki incorrect? Or am I reading the alignment chart wrong? Is it written somewhere that priests of Norgorber can only be evil? I think my biggest concern is that i'm interpreting the alignment axis chart wrong. Thanks.

This is an RPG, there are no rules.. merely guidelines.

While for mechanic reasons it makes sense, it doesn't always work for what the player wants to do. I adjust to fit the player character build if it doesn't affect the game in any other way. The idea here is to have fun, and you bend the rules of the game to fit your fun.


Beek Gwenders of Croodle wrote:

We're still finishing "Burnt Offerings". One of my characters died for a 50 hp critical from Nualia (1d10+15 x 2, ouch!).

After going back to Sandpoint and back, they discovered the secret door in the shadows/architects room and killed the giant crab.
They now suspect that Thassilonian monuments are the result of work from giant slaves (the huge helmet).
They picked up some thousands thassilonian coins from the hoard and went back to the upper level and entered the Inner sanctum where Malfeshnekor is imprisoned.

Question 1: are thassilonian coins common in varisia? Assuming a 10.000 years timespan, the ones that circulated on the surface should be more or less all in critical conditions so I assume "no". Then what's the market value of the coins in your campaign? What's depicted on the coins? Shiedron rune/Karzoug profile seems logical.

Back to the story. They entered Malfeshnekor's room, and were severely beaten for 2 rounds by a 15x15 feet huge (enlarged) enraged barghest. They immediately retreated closing the stone doors behind them, retrapping the barghest in the room. Rolling a DC 22 Knowledge (planes) they identified the creature as a lower extraplanar lawful-evil being able to cast spells at will.
before they left, Malfeshnekor started knocking at the doors, speaking from behind. I assumed that a INT 18 creature which has been trapped for thousands of years, even if full of rage, should be at least trying to negotiate with the party. Who knows, maybe they're the last chance he has. That was very tricky to manage as possibly Malfeshnekor knows almost eveyrthing about Thassilon, and could be a HUGE spolier source.

I remembered from 1E that the barghest were Lawful, and Malfeshnekor indeed speaks INFERNAL and NOT Abyssal. I also assumed he was some sort of Devil from Gehenna (even if I didn't read The Great Beyond). I weighed my words carefully, but they extracted from him some information on Thassilon, including Karzoug's and Alaznist's names and roles as runelords of Greed and Wrath,...

For the coins, I treated them as the equivalent to the Greek Drachma's. A good representive of the old coins can fetch anywhere from 900 to 9k us dollars. While the coins are very valuable.. the party rogue realized that dumping all the coins at once would flood the market and drop the value. So the party is currently going through the coins, making sets and planning to sell them off slowly. I rather expected that, so it allowed me to give them a fairly nice treasure but not give them too much all at once.


Wow, several items that I hadn't looked at from that point of view... next group running through this is in for a bit of a surprise....

The group I am currently running spoke to the town council after the catacombs and informed the council of their intentions to be proactive. Despite the promise of keeping an eye on the town they urged attacking thistletop before it could recover and thus end the threat completely.

I'm seeing this in a different light now... this is going to be interesting for the group I start running this for next month.


James Jacobs wrote:
IronDesk wrote:

Detect evil allows the caster to experience the haunt as the haunted player does, but what about detect magic. Assuming the caster had two or three rounds to study it ( like the dancing parlour haunt in Skinsaw), what would he see?

Haunts are neither magical items nor spell effects. They're closer to undead than anything else. And just as detect magic won't detect an undead creature, it won't detect a haunt.

So what would Detect Undead do?


Kharis2000 wrote:

In my ongoing RotRL game, that came up as well since one of the players chose to have his character grow up in Magnimar and knew that there was no Great Library. I was about to solve it by having Brodert admit that he was really the scribe of a deceased scholar out to make a name for himself on the knowledge he'd gained writing things down for his aged empoyer when they went off the rails with an idea that was so whacked out I *had* to run with it.

At the point this started, they had found the notes referring to 'the quasit' and once the lack of a Great Library was noted, they leapt to the conclusion that 'the quasit' was really 'The Quasit' - the criminal mastermind behind the local Scarzni criminals and architect of their problems in Sandpoint... and that Brodert was that evil mastermind, his guilt in their eyes assured by the fact that they couldn't catch him doing anything.

They're at Ft. Rannick now, but they're *still* convinced that he's the Moriarity of Varisia, and keep looking for ways to see his hand in everything that happens.

I'm so amused by the idea that I'm thinking that I'll actually use it - maybe do a reveal at the end of the campaign that he was indeed a villain, but that he needed someone to oppose a greater villain and elected the party or something like that.

OMG... I love that.

Party thief is already in the Szcarzni bad side though.


Cylerist wrote:

I am about to start RotR AP and am wondering what kind of downtime is set up in the AP?

We are/have run AoW and Cauldron and both had such a "rushed" adventure the PC had little downtime to craft items.
I RotR the same of is taking craft feats actually going to be useful?

Thanks for any input you can give me.

There is some downtime, looking at the first module (which I am currently running) there are a few points of downtime during it and a short bit before Skinsaw. Fudge the time if you need too, but I'm thinking I'll put in about a month between SM & HMM. I certainly do not want the game to get into a adventure/create rinse wash cycle.


Molly Dingle wrote:

Easy fix... give all humanoids with the "Giant" subtype the following extra ability:

Giants are treated as monsters for any spell or effect dependent on creature type for success. Thus they are immune to spells with "person" in the title such charm person and hold person.

This could certainly be worded better, but you can probably see what I'm getting at.

A note about Hold Person is that it requires a will save EACH round, at 50% chance that means it could be free from the hold just as someone runs up to do the cdg. AoO anyone? Hold Person is a VERY powerful spell, it also has a built in limitation. Also it can also be aimed at players.. 3rd level ogre cleric of Rovagug would be just as dangerous to the players.


I'm looking at it this way.. Brodert is a 7th level expert that means he could have upto 7 ranks in Knowledge Thassilion, a +3 from it being a class skill and a +3 from Skill focus. That's 13 with out adding intelligence modifiers. I'm thinking he can recognize common items/relics (coins and the like) without effort though I've also decided that common items are fairly rare and valuable to collectors around Golarion. For items like the medallions or rings... those will take time and research.. by no means will he automatically be able to tell the party that you need that to get past Guardian X and open door Y.

I'm also going to have him be a place they can take relics to for conversion into cash. I think that his "obsession" with the fallen empire will cause him to want to be the guy they bring them too. I will let the feathered serpent buy the items too, but at a lower price... just to mess with the party.


wspatterson wrote:
Kharis2000 wrote:

Jubrayl fell by the wayside in my game after he was used by the Skinsaw Man to handle the thefts of the SM's 'beloved's' belongings, and then by the leader of the cultists in Magnimar as a cutout to kill the PCs in order to prevent them from following clues to Magnimar. He and his cronies got caught, and the survivors wound up on a prison ship to Magnimar escorted by the party for a date with some Hellknight interrogators (and were subsequently assassinated before they could spill anything incriminating).

The party, however, took the notes in Nualia's papers about 'the Quasit' and ran with them, deciding that there was *another* crimelord in Sandpoint using that name who was pulling strings to get them to eliminate threats to his control of the Varisian underworld in the area. After some discussion, they fingered Sandpoint's resident Thassilonian sage, Brodert Quink, as the likely suspect for the new threat they'd conjured up. Even the discovery of the literal quasit under Sandpoint hasn't diminished their suspicions.

My players don't do things like this. This is very interesting to read.

My current group on this is of the "it can't be a red herring if it smells fishy" mentality. Its great!


Two members of the party managed to impress Aldern, I can see him doing lust over one and I can see either envy or wrath from the other. I'm considering waiting to see if either of the two manages to trump the other to get his attention for Skinsaw, though it also occurs to me that another party member might get into the mix during that time as well.

I'm considering having him target one member for each sin (Lust, Wrath and Envy). Though I don't want to make it too easy for the party to realize that it must be Aldern that's behind it too soon. Anyone else tried this?


Started the game saturday.

Human Cleric of Sarenrae plans to become Mystic Theurge
Human Fighter specializing in archery
Human Fighter specializing in melee.. sword and board to start though may go axes.
Half-elven Sorcorer Celestial Blood-line.
Half-elven Ranger Two weapon style
Elf Rogue.

The party has been handing me a number of .."beating sticks" Gotta love it.

They really loved the first encounters with the goblins, little do they know what evil little freaks they are. They are a rowdy bunch but all very experienced gamers except for one and she is catching on.


zylphryx wrote:

OK, so one of the groups I am running through this AP is a group of kids (10-13 years of age). They are currently in Skinsaw and were "trapped" in Foxglove Manor by the Carrionswarms. Every time they looked outside, I described "thousands of sickly looking crows sitting on every surface outside the manor and they are all looking at YOU". It is a pretty big group (8 PCs), but they were pretty terrified of the birds.

The first time a couple of them went out, I had the carrionswarms not take to the air until they were about 30' from the house.

So one session later and a night spent in the house, the party had three members infected with ghoul fever from the ghouls downstairs and two infected with the phage (one was also infected with ghoul fever). They decided they definitely needed to get out of the house and back to town to get cured.

Their solution? They took the building supplies form the room in the attic (lumber and rope was listed and I decided there would also be basic tools and nails ... the room was partially rebuilt after all) and build a "mobile hut" big enough for three medium PCs to get under and slowly make their way out of the house and through the birds. The entire concept caught me a bit off guard, but it worked out ... kinda. They did end up having to face off against the swarms, but the cover they built gave time for a couple AoE spells to be cast and the remainder of the party who stayed behind went to town with missile attacks.

Anyone else find their players using what in the text seemed like no more than part of a room description to come up with something unexpected?

Nearly every single time. Devious players are great fun.


To put this in some perspective....

We have the tale of Moses striking the rock and producing the water to fill the jugs of the ENTIRE nation of Israel during the wandering. That qualifies as miraculous, that's the sort of thing you want your PC cleric to be able to think about doing. When you talk of 400,000 gallons of water...

Let's do some math...

400,000/8 the amount of water you want created divided by the amount a per level created by a cleric. At first level that's 50,000 castings at 6 seconds per cast or 83 hrs of casting. He's going to lose his voice before he gets all that casting done. Even a 5th level cleric at 40 gallons per cast is looking at 10,000 casts to fill that order. Only about 17 hrs of casting but still long enough to make him have difficulty casting anything with verbal requirements for the next couple of days. Even at 20th level you are looking at over 4 hrs of casting. Infinite it might be, but no one is going to attempt that and not face some serious consquences.

In order to irrigate a town in the desert you would be looking at millions of gallons, not hundreds of thousands. You would need an army of clerics to achieve that. Keep in mind that not every follower working in the shrine/temple/church is an actual cleric. Clerics are a hero class, the people that "get things done" everyone else are the people that make sure the wheels keep rolling when the heroes aren't there.

The system itself is not broken, but breakable ... yes. Since most of the spells don't stack, and the amount of damage created for the most part is minimal (1d3 is about 2 pts per round, your wizard/sorcerer is better off trying to hit something with his staff.) If there is one spell to worry about... Mending. How much damage to the economy could that spell cause?

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