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Grimmy's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 2,626 posts (8,207 including aliases). 2 reviews. 1 list. No wishlists. 1 Pathfinder Society character. 12 aliases.


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I started a similar thread a while back, here's what people were saying:

Stealth without bluff check in concealment?

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Justin Sane wrote:
Grimmy wrote:
Sorry for getting sarcastic, but seriously "blank is fun for no one" is too blanket. I have players in my group who like a serious handicap for rp purposes. More than one. I have seen it come off annoyingly or hilariously, but they really like to do that sometimes.
Flawed wrote:
Power=/=fun is and isn't true as much as the inverse. Fun is completely subjective. I have a player in my group that likes to weaken all of his characters through some means that adds to his enjoyment of role playing just as others like to optimize and post big numbers. To each their own and no one has a right to say otherwise.
If martials got a power-boost, the "power = fun" crowd would be pleased and your players could still handicap themselves for fun. It would be a win-win.

I'm not the least bit against a martial power boost, or a caster nerf, I was just replying to a very specific point. This guy said that no one likes having wizards start off weaker and end up stronger than fighters and I'm just saying I know people that enjoy that. I am someone who enjoys that.

Flawed wrote:
Power=/=fun is and isn't true as much as the inverse. Fun is completely subjective. I have a player in my group that likes to weaken all of his characters through some means that adds to his enjoyment of role playing just as others like to optimize and post big numbers. To each their own and no one has a right to say otherwise.

Right that is what I meant to say.

lol, yup^^

Rynjin I get the distinction and that nuance in your original comment and yes it's more despite of than because of in my wizard case, but not entirely, because at times I was enjoying that wizard because of the way the power differences and how they scaled modeled a type of character and helped me get into character.. I don't know of I'm explaining this right, but yes, for me those differences are part of the charm of d&d. And then when the wizard gets more power, I like how the fighter can't do such spectacular feats but he can keep doing what he does around the clock.

Sorry for getting sarcastic, but seriously "blank is fun for no one" is too blanket. I have players in my group who like a serious handicap for rp purposes. More than one. I have seen it come off annoyingly or hilariously, but they really like to do that sometimes.

I have met a lot of players who want to lower the overall power level because it feels too superhero-ey. Yes, that is an overall global change and doesn't result in a disparity, but I have also played and enjoyed games where the very disparity was a feature not a bug for us.

Rifts. That game had no semblance of balance. Since we gave up any hope of being on even ground we had a blast just seeing where the game took us without obsessing about how we were "performing".

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Fine you guys are right. The great times I had roleplaying my wizard at low levels in ad&d must have never happened and there must have been an increase in fun when I got to higher levels that I just failed to notice. I will try to get more in touch with my own feelings.

Also being a starving artist in the city with awesome friends must have sucked more than I'm remembering and when I got a high paying job and spent all my time with shallow people I couldn't relate with I guess my misery then wasn't real either.

Thomas Long 175 wrote:

This game is to be played for fun. These characters are meant to be fun to play. The game should not be balanced around "well his character will be fun at this point in the game and yours will be fun at this point."

power =/= fun for everyone.

Off the top of my head, I say RAI yes RAW no.

It's not insane parsing, the attack action really is a specific action in the game. It costs a standard action and gives you a single attack.

When you take an attack as part of a full attack or as an AoO, or in a charge, that is not the attack action.

Rudy2 wrote:
No matter how many times I read this ruling, I can't get over that they let SLAs get you into these things early, thus making Aasimar automatically better for it than any other race.

Yeah, I don't like that either. I wouldn't mind if every race could just get in early though.

I think Jiggy was teaching a man to fish and all that.

Mites are so awesome.

Must be some way to get them vermin animal companions?

2 people marked this as a favorite.

The Gear Wastes sounds cool.

How about give them cave druid class levels?

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Hey wicked_raygun...

How frequent of posts do you expect? And how much rules knowledge is required?

I want to try 5e but I have never played it before, even in the playtest.

Also I have a bunch of other pbp commitments and work has been slammin lately so I would only be good for like 5-7 posts a week.

I would want to play a human fighter/thief or an elf fighter/wizard.

Slyness: everything in the "Race" and "Class" fields of your profile should show up that way, so you have to cram all that info in those fields. I think it's kind of a forum hack that some clever person came up with.


Joana it's a very atypical module. It was the first third edition adventure ever published I think, definitely the first 3pp one at least. It was getting played at conventions just as third edition was breaking. It's meant for first time DM's and first time players, and to be able to be run without any prep at all.

I have run it several times and just omitted the boxed text that dictated players actions because that rankled me quite a bit.

Well played indeed.



True it is cheating but even this comes down to a social contract and gamer culture that not everyone will share. My little cousin did this when he played with us for the first time, googled a monster for vulnerabilities. He had no idea it was wrong, he was thinking of the game like a video game where you might google a certain level of you get stuck.

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Wraithstrike made a cool thread a long time ago defining the terms power-gamer, optimizer, and munchkin.

Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

Sadly your two problem players are bumming me out as well. I am sorry for you having to play with them. They are not doing anything "wrong" objectively, but subjectively they are looting, entitled a$$hats I would not wish to play with. And I've just exposed myself as opinionated and bigoted. Go figure.

Like every other thread like this, and as posted upthread: yada yada talk to them, yada yada appeal to their sense of group fun yada yada if they can't moderate their behaviour nuke them from orbit yada yada

My confidence is bolstered by oceanshield wolf. I'm going to expose myself too.

I would not play with these guys. Period, full stop.

Doesn't mean they are bad players or bad people, just not for me.

BTW I thought your thread title was fine.

Oh this is awesome! GREAT idea.

I like the idea of minions. I like "bloodied". I like how you get variant monsters right in the monster manual (instead of just "goblin" you have a few different ones so you can make a nice little squad without loads of prep.)

Encounter design in general looks pretty inviting.

I like the art direction towards the end (essentials books for example).


Question... if I am running Barakus in a PbP, is there any way I can share players guide with the PC's? I would buy multiple copies if necessary but I'm not sure there's a way to purchase multiple PDF's.

Tels wrote:

If one were to take an actual wraith and apply the giant sized template (assuming size affects touch damage), it would, following the normal progression, only deal 1d8 points of damage on a touch...

But it makes sense you would want to compensate for the fact that they don't get the full mileage out of the advanced simple template right?

I mean the template is there for convenience, but the goal is to end up with an appropriately CR'd monster after you apply it.

If the effectiveness isn't going up as much as it should for the added CR cost it makes sense to bring it back in line.

The way I see it, it's just a different monster with different damage. *shrug*

I hear you, but I'm running an exploration heavy sandbox hex-crawl, and there are lots of rest interruptions throughout the night.

Not sure if it's bad forum etiquette to necro, but I was about to start this same topic and it seems harmless to bump this one instead.

I'm leaning towards a natural day being the 24 hour period from midnight to midnight but I would like to hear how others do this and why.

^^And I got most of my initiative ideas from GM Tribute actually, just tweaked a little.

Hey Tribute, noob question... I've seen you use this acronym a couple of times "BFH"? All I can think of is "Big F'ing Hammer"?

I would so much love to join this game as FGG is my favorite 3PP, and I'm really intrigued by the format of using VTT in conjunction with PbP... but sadly I have way to much meta knowledge of Rappan Athuk :/ I'm running it at home and in PbP.

Wish you all happy gaming though!

Don't go down the well!

Oh ok. Thanks Liz!

Confused about it being listed as a backorder. PDF only, right?

Game looks awesome, and thanks for the blog link, I've been thinking about XP for Gold a lot lately.

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I didn't find the thread offensive. It's all about people finding each other right?

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Regarding the OP...

The thread title leaves me predisposed to thinking that yes, you did do bad.

Nothing that follows is as bad as I expected it to be. I think this would have gone differently if you guys had played through to high levels organically, starting somewhere more reasonable like 7th level or lower.

Even after years of playing loads of pathfinder and frequenting the messageboard's I'm not really comfortable as a player or a GM in encounters above, say, 14th level.

Well that is something that could change my mind^^

I'll definitely buy the books at the very least.

I think I will look for 5e games as a player but not sure I'll DM it.

Someone pointed this out to me. Might have some bearing.

pfsrd wrote:

In an area of bright light, all characters can see clearly. Some creatures, such as those with light sensitivity and light blindness, take penalties while in areas of bright light. A creature can't use Stealth in an area of bright light unless it is invisible or has cover. Areas of bright light include outside in direct sunshine and inside the area of a daylight spell.
Normal light functions just like bright light, but characters with light sensitivity and light blindness do not take penalties. Areas of normal light include underneath a forest canopy during the day, within 20 feet of a torch, and inside the area of a light spell.
In an area of dim light, a character can see somewhat. Creatures within this area have concealment (20% miss chance in combat) from those without darkvision or the ability to see in darkness. A creature within an area of dim light can make a Stealth check to conceal itself. Areas of dim light include outside at night with a moon in the sky, bright starlight, and the area between 20 and 40 feet from a torch.

Incidentally, I do take advantage of some vagary in the rules to interpret the "create a diversion to hide" use of bluff as a free action. (I guess most people call it a standard using Feint as a precedent.)

So when a PC is being observed but has concealment wants to use stealth, I call for a bluff check but I don't charge any action cost for it.

(My players like to fluff this as simply waiting for a moment in battle when all eyes are turned.)

I dunno, this is my way of making sense of some confusing rules without feeling like I'm too far out in house-rule territory.

I'd love to know if there's any general consensus out there though. PFS people, how do you see this being handled in society play?

That is certainly how it reads to me. (A or B) and not C.

I think stealth is for remaining unobserved, not becoming unobserved.

So yes, you can use it when you have concealment, but not to go *poof*. That is never what it was for in the first place.

I guess it comes down to what is observing?

For me, if someone is talking to me, looking at me, swinging a sword at me with only a 20% chance of missing due to my concealment, they are most certainly observing me.

Sure they might be more likely to lose track of me looking away for a second if I have concealment, but that is exactly what I use the bluff check to represent.

Uh oh, my Sifu Ashiel who practically taught me the game disagrees with me!!

Gauss if you have time can you check out my post above in detail? (The one with the PRD quotes spoilered?) I remember you from other rules topics, you seem to have a good mind for these things. I'd like to know if you can see the thought process that leads to my interpretation.

It would be nice and simple the other way. Simple is good.

Here's how I parse that:

Concealment makes it possible to make a stealth check, but what does a stealth check represent?

Stealth is for avoiding detection. You make a stealth check when you have not been detected, and you wish to remain undetected. Concealment makes this possible. If you have already been detected, concealment does not change that fact.

PRD quotes:

PRD wrote:

If people are observing you using any of their senses (but typically sight), you can't use Stealth. Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth. If your observers are momentarily distracted (such as by a Bluff check), you can attempt to use Stealth. While the others turn their attention from you, you can attempt a Stealth check if you can get to an unobserved place of some kind. This check, however, is made at a –10 penalty because you have to move fast.

Bolding mine.

PRD wrote:

Breaking Stealth

When you start your turn using Stealth, you can leave cover or concealment and remain unobserved as long as you succeed at a Stealth check and end your turn in cover or concealment.

If you are not being observed, you can go from concealment to concealment, using stealth, to remain unobserved. Concealment in itself does not make it possible to suddenly become unobserved.

PRD wrote:

Creating a Diversion to Hide

You can use Bluff to allow you to use Stealth. A successful Bluff check can give you the momentary diversion you need to attempt a Stealth check while people are aware of you.

It sounds to me like if people are aware of you, and you want to use concealment to make a stealth check, it's time for a bluff check.

This all seems fair and makes sense to me.

A dumpster is a good place to hide from a bully, but if the bully watches you climb in the dumpster, then a dumpster is a terrible place to hide.

Remember playing "hide and go seek"? The seeker always closed his eyes while you hid. The game would have been short if he hadn't.

Note: The rules fail to define the action cost of "creating a diversion to hide". I've been told that it's comparable to a feint and therefore is a standard action. I rule that it is a free action performed as part of the move. Don't try to pass this off as legal in PFS, but it is how I run stealth ;)

That's my position as well BNW.

Interesting. Thanks Gauss. Never considered that.

3 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

I know concealment makes stealth checks possible but my understanding was that if you begin your turn observed you need to create a diversion to take advantage of the concealment. Have I been interpreting this wrong?

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