Grimcleaver's page

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Mostly I worry that magic is becoming a lot less fun. I liked spells that had fuzzier definitions, where you could use them creatively. It seems like 4e is making everything magical too cut and dried. I liked that you could shut down rituals and magic items and stuff by dispelling it. The idea that it's all just immune, and that only summons and area effects are dispellable is just dry like crazy. It's like chess. I use X so you counter with Y. It seems like a lot of the flexibility and creativity that always made me love mages (and one of the strongest things D&D ever had going for it) may be getting diminished in this new version. That makes me a little sad.

Most of our house rules are going to be (as they've always been) to try and make some sense and order out of otherwise blatant game mechanics.

First thing will probably be to go through all the various classes and try to figure out what's really going on with their various powers--the paladin healing smites and all the different new abilities everyone gets--and try to make them consistant and logical.

I'll probably work armor as damage reduction still, since a guy in chain mail taking the same amount of damage from getting knifed as a naked guy just don't make no sense to me.

I'll probably also try to bridge the "PCs are so much cooler than NPCs gulf" and figure out a way to get all the people in the same universe working off the same rules. A big part of 4e is the idea that the PCs are special and work totally differently than everyone else in the world. Yuck. My thing is going to be to try and make the players feel part of the world, their characters being a natural part of it just like everything else.

I normally run my games with ultralow hit points--since the idea of characters being able to survive 8-10 longsword stabs just defies any kind of reason. But since I've been following the 4e releases, I'm thinking of maybe trying the hitpoint system this time. The growth curve is slower and more proportionate (more up front, fewer each level) and other mechanics are being put into place that seem to flesh out the idea that hit points are a measure of how much fight a character has in them--morale, stamina and whatnot. I might take that idea out for a spin. That said, I will probably tinker with it too. I like the idea of fear effects doing HP damage (lost morale) in this version of things, or having folks who run out of hitpoints not necessarily dying, but rather collapsing in exaustion, giving up or running away instead.

I intend to monkey around with the new edition tons.

I love Forgotten Realms. But the thing I've always loved most about Faerun is that it's long history is always changing and evolving. It's defined for me largely be events like the Fall of Netheril, the Time of Troubles, the Year of Rogue Dragons, and similar huge events that cause a real footprint in the setting. The idea of a hundred year turmoil resulting in a vastly changed Faerun is exciting like crazy to me. I've been reading about the changes and it really feels like something I want to jump into. A whole 'nuther Faerun with new characters and new vistas. I dig that. More than that, as a gamer I enjoy the fact that there's a new hundred years of history to go and fill in the blank spaces with in campaigns.

That said, 4e might just get me looking at Eberron books for once. Eberron always felt half-baked to me, but now that it's coming out again with some new 4e spin on it and a few years of play under its belt it feels like a more mature setting. Might take a look at the first few Eberron novels written for 4e.

What I'm really looking forward to though is to see if any books get written for their new Core World. That's the mystery, the "setting" for lack of a better word that I'm most interested in seeing depicted. Hopefully they do a good job with it. I'm a little nervous since it seems like a really new (or old, depending on how you look at it) way to envision D&D.

Okay, I bought this book when it first came out and the whole group was really excited about it. I just got to skim it and get a handle on the whole backstory--excellent stuff! It's not only what the new World of Darkness should have been more like, it's also what Urban Arcana and Shadowrun should have been more like. Really exciting ideas around a wonderful hook that brings post apocalyptic and Lovecraftian themes into a very dark, fresh, stylish setting.

So now I'm getting to run it, and the honeymoon is rapidly ending. The book is horrifically unorganized--almost unplayably unorganized. It's a catastrophe. You literally get no sense of what any breed of supernatural is capable of doing from any listing anywhere in the book. You have to look at the feat trees, all written in tiny font, and crossreference them against the three (four for mages) sections of the book talking about that specific critter. I've taken to writing down on notecards what each kind of supernatural can do, painstakingly copying all the material from each section in little bullet points. It's bad. Like Palladium bad.

That said, the flavor is still great.

It's a little aggrivating how "up to you" the whole setting is--very D&D of him. You want things to work like this? Okay here's how that would be. Very little solid commitment on anything. You never get a solid feel for what really is going on. It's all up to you to figure out. It's like he writes half of a really interesting book and then throws it at you. Which would be fine if enough of the loose ends were followed to at least some hypothetical conclusions--but they just aren't. You basically have to try and connect the all the dots for your own campaign--cause your players who are definitely going to ask things like "so my vampire remembers the afterlife--what was it like?" or "so as a demon, how much do I know about the real nature of the Inconnu?". You pretty much end up having to write a good chunk of the setting yourself. That alone has been pretty draining.

But again, its a really exciting setting and as much as the adaption is killing me, I'm really looking forward to playing in it.

So anyway I'm going to be running this starting this Saturday. I was curious how many other folks out there have been laboring with this beast of a game and if you've had any better luck than I am. It'd be nice to have a few other heads to put together to start making sense of the setting. I've also been noodling some house rules for the game (like people having real classes, for one thing--I'm bringing in the classes from Adventure! and the occupation rules from Call of Cthuhlu).

Anyway things are still pretty doughy in the center. The more feedback I can get the better my game will be. Thanks a lot in advance guys!

I'll probably buy a few more than normal at first, to see how the feel of the new game translates into prose. Assuming it's good I might follow along with some of the big storylines. If not I'll probably stop buying any for a while in the hopes of letting the authors get a feel for the new edition and how to tell stories in it.

I'm not sure I share in the general outrage. I think having D&D Day just prior to Free RPG day might encourage more people to participate. Personally I've never done anything with Free RPG day, but this year I might give it a look. I think it might work to the advantage of both events. That and I am jazzed like crazy that D&D Day is coming earlier this year! I've really been looking forward to it from the last couple--it's like Christmas for me!

Seriously though, the third party community might grumble about it, but I really don't see it as that underhanded or even unhelpful. Having the two days closer together seems like it will raise the tide for both.

It's always stuck in my craw that elves can breed with anything and the result is pretty. Dwarves, by contrast can breed with...well dwarves. That's lame, particularly since of the two it seems much more likely that a human and a dwarf would hit it off. Elves just seem so aloof and unlikely to blend into human society enough. Dwarves like clanky whirry stuff, and big stone cities. They're big and burly and loads of fun when drunk. What's not to love, right?

So I was thinking, with places like Janderhoff exporting their citizens around for various reasons I was thinking what if unlike in typical D&D, you could have a half-dwarf? It gets me thinking how much I loved the muls from Dark Sun, and how mad I was that for as cool as they were, that they were pretty much locked into that setting.

Anyway I think it'd just be a neat, flavorful new option without having to introduce half-constructs or bunnyfolk or some other gonzo goshawful thing.

I heard an interesting thing. They're talking about listing some of the half-critters in the main book. So you'd have half-dragons and half-genies and whatnot presumably.

This brings up something I've always wanted to see in a game. Half-races as templates. The half-elf and half-orc have always been assumed to be human crosses, but that's just weird. Then again, trying to make them into anything else just gets really fuzzy rules wise. A simple fix would be to make a template for each one that you could then stick onto any character at chargen--just like all the other heritage templates.

For one, it simplifies things. Everything goes off the same mechanics. Now you don't have one kind of writeup for a PC whose parent is a troll or a minotaur and a whole different kind of writeup for a character whose parent is an orc.

It's also powerful. You get to qualify what can mate with what (for example if you want to axe the half-elven dwarf you can, or establish what strange effects that would have--like sterility for example, or as is the case with races like minotaurs and halflings you could put a size requirement in--characters of large size cannot be half-halfling.) You don't need a new race writeup for every race-race combination either. Once you have the half-elf you can apply that to anything that applies.

Anyway it's just a thought. It's nice because it wouldn't really change anything in setting. It's just a nice organizational tweak to get the rules working in a more seamless, less clunky way.

I like the discussion here. I'd love to see more iconically Pathfinder choices for race and class. I'd love to see a new, distinctly Pathfinder, race come out in particular--I just hope it isn't a really freaky fringe thing that you can never play, or some really gonzo gamma-world feeling thing.

When the early thoughts were rolling out about 4e, I suggested what I still think is a pretty neat idea. Shelf the elf and dwarf. Don't get rid of them, they're still there, just don't focus on them--they tend to be fringe societies that live on their own in deep mountains and ancient forests, so you don't see them much anyway.

Introduce a handful of fun flavorful races that actually do rub shoulders with each other in the main cities of the world. Create the races to be friends and companions who are able to coexist and improve the society they share. Loads of color and flavor and fantasy feel but not so rare you never see them.

That said, this is Pathfinder, so you really can't do much of that. It's been set out pretty clearly that nonhumans are really rare on the order of one or two per town or city unless it's a major place like Magnimar or Kaer Maga. At that it's usually more half-somethings rather than full-blooded somethings. Player characters are supposed to not let that limit their choices, because they're so special they can be anything (yuck by the way...I hate the idea of PCs not fitting into the tapestry of the setting and being their own distinct thing). I don't know how different it gets outside Varisia, but I'd hate to go messing around with the flavor out the setting too much.

I like having a smattering of different methods to pick from. Honestly I'd like it if Pathfinder didn't even waste much page count on it. I personally use the "4d6 drop lowest" approach, and usually let players roll 7 rolls and drop the lowest of those. That ends up usually with a nice even spread. But on the other hand, I can see the need in some groups for a point-buy, to keep the guy with all 12s and 13s to get grumpy and jealous when another player gets all 17s and 18s. It happens.

That said, I hope they don't waste a page talking about a dozen different ways to put numbers on a character sheet. Maybe a box off to the side mentioning the 4d6 method and a much simpler version of point buy and that's it. I want my Pathfinder to be full of other stuff--race stuff, class stuff, magic, feats, gear. Anywhere else that space can be cut is great with me. Heck, axe the whole combat section and I'd be a happy guy.

I guess I don't see the problem. It actually makes more sense for me to see a character with 20 hit points go to 26 in a level, rather than a character with 6 hit points suddenly double and then triple his total over the next couple of levels. It makes the gain per level seem more reasonable. The difference seems less of a quantum leap and more like natural growth and development. Plus with bigger up front hit points you can now track damage that's significant but not life threatening. Twisting an ankle or stepping on a broken bottle don't send you 1/8 of the way toward dead. I can live with that.

You could do convoluted character generation to try and emulate this, starting characters at higher level or giving them transparent commoner levels, or whatever...but I boggle a bit at the idea of gunking up chargen with a bunch of extra complexity when the simple fix is just to pad the front end hit points a bit. The complexity of making higher level characters isn't unmanagable, but the idea that I could never just make a first level character again would be a bit of a headache when there could be another better option.

I for one would be a fan of giving characters even more of their hit points up front and increase it even more slowly than what's happening. I am so not a fan of high level characters with so many hit points that they can wade into fireballs or get bitten in half by dragons and still be fine. I really try to make the damage reasonable in my games at home--people get hit points by race and that's it unless you raise your constitution or get the toughness feat. You could be a 12th level fighter and still only have 8 hp unless you devote feats and ability score increases to fixing it. Now I understand how hardcore this is, and not for everybody. So yeah, I'd be fine with giving characters maybe 30 hit points up front, and then a point or two bump based on class each level. That way there's still a big difference in hit points between a first and 20th level character (a combat character could still expect to hit epic with about 70 hp) but both of them seem to fit nicely into the killable human range. It's way more than I would ever want my PC's to have, but it's a big step down on the crazy meter from how it is now.

I agree that whips really do seem like exotic weapons. That said they need some love. Real whips can cut people open. I'd argue they do a d8 of lethal damage, but can't be used in spaces adjacent to the user. I'd also argue they give the ability to grapple and disarm. I don't know offhand the rules for the asian sleeve-entangler or mancatcher, but it should be able to do both.

I think the best way to go would be to have it be exotic, but useful enough to be worth it. That's the change I'd favor.

Here's my take on armor as AC. It's too all or nothing. That's where the wonk comes from. If you do get hit, even in your big suit of plate mail, the RAW makes it so you take damage as if you were naked. That's where it just doesn't work for me.

I've always been a big fan of trying to have the rules represent what they're trying to represent. I totally understand that Pathfinder wants to be respectful to the idea of 3.5 and they don't want to make sweeping changes that are going to mess with what they've done so far. That said, there's an opportunity here to put in a few simple fixes that will make things play much more smoothly--and remove some of the strange arcane rules that don't add anything to the game.

I'm totally for it. At least as an optional rule, but ideally as the new RAW. It does a lot of nice things for the game.

My personal preference is mouse wheeling. I'm a mouse wheeler. Sick, I know.

I am so happy this is how it turned out. I think 4e is gonna' be awesome, but it isn't Pathfinder. It just isn't. This new book is, among other things, a gorgeous new book of Pathfinder stuff that I can proudly sit on my bookshelf. But more than that, it's the game customized to the setting rather than the other way around--which is always better!

This is going to be awesome. These are good times to be a gamer!

Yikes. That's a lot of cultures. I mean, Varisia is one thing--just the three flavors of humans there, but Golarion is a huge world! Now granted I think we're gonna' already get a huge helping of that in the Gazeteer. Huge from what I hear--they went a little overboard even.

That said, it would be nice to see races and cultures be a bigger than usual part of the Pathfinder RPG. Precident from the PHB gives a lavish peice of art to each class and a full writeup, usually a couple of pages. It'd be nice to see races the same kind of love in Pathfinder. Some of the races really do need it--gnomes particularly, but everyone could use it. Half-orcs are a whole different thing. Elves are really different. Halflings need fleshed out a bit. Granted I'll say the writeups on the various signature characters has helped tons--but lots of people aren't going to have read all that.

It'd be nice to see the cultures get a bit of notice too. The section in the PHB on making your character unique is really mostly an age and weigh/height table. It'd be nice to flesh that out with real backgrounds and background feats (like in the Forgotten Realms book). It'd be nice to fill in the equipment section too with some regionally flavored things to really flesh out the world and characters a bit--more stuff like the k'larr and earthbreaker. That way you've got solid options to make a character who really fits into his home region.

That's the stuff I really care about when it comes to making a good character that fits nicely in the setting.

I was flipping through the Pathfinder rules booklet and in the box section discussing what to do with starting hitpoints there was a suggestion to allot extra hp by race--frail races get 4, average races get 6 and beefy races get 8.

I almost cried.

It's not really even the same rule exactly, and it's not like it's a huge part of the rules addendums--but I figure somewhere somebody read my old Grimcleaver System, laying around somewhere, and decided part of it would be cool in the new rules for the game. That kind of thing really touches me. Certainly it's why I'm an unflaggingly loyal customer. You guys are awesome.

Okay you guys nearly owed me for a new computer. I read that and did this monster backflip in my seat and nearly blew up my monitor. Good thing it's tough. And the yell of pure gaming satisfaction blew out my windows and lead to somebody calling the SWAT team. After getting flashbanged and pepper sprayed, and whacked around with an asp and cuffed with striptape, I was finally able to explain the mistake. But, y'know, not gamers they TOTALLY didn't understand. Heh. Figures.

So anyway now my life is ruined. But that's okay because so long as I don't use actual dice I can still game in prison! Woo-hoo!

...so can anybody tell me how to make my own spinner?

Retro and Pretentious, definitely. Interestingly probably more Retro, since a lot of decisions get made more with a firm bend toward tradition, and early edition feel. See Fortress of the Stone Giants for example. There's gobs of dungeons and dragons, traps and trolls, all that good stuff. But then we come to the beautiful pretentiousness of it all. Character is paramount. The dragons all have awesome personalities and histories. The cultures are beautiful, the cities and NPCs lovingly detailed. This is a game better than other games. Seriously, it's art. I can get really really snobby about it. That said though, first and foremost it's an altar to nostalgia and the grungy old grognards who love it so.

EDIT: HEY! I just thought of something! Instead of Stupid, the third axis should be called Goofy. That way the three categories would be...

R+P+G!

Seriously, how cool is that!

I'm with modus0. It's a long rivalry I've had back from the old days when high CR monsters were turned into classes so you could play wimped out versions of them at first level for the sake of game balance (over reason). I think it's fun mechanically, and certainly I don't hate that one half of your character doesn't just stop doing anything after first level--but I think turning your race into a prestige class is maybe the wrong direction to go.

It reminds me of when I used to flip through the Rules Cyclopedia and laugh that "Elf" and "Dwarf" and "Halfling" were classes. Now it seems like we're going BACK there! Weird.

It's an interesting idea to mull over, and I'm sure you could do something interesting with it. I'm just not sure the solution on the table is the only way to get it.

What I would really love would be something simple in the mechanics that would make an elven ranger or wizard different from a dwarven, human, or half-orc one. Something that makes it so that race and class come together and make something whole and different from both--like Kool-Aid powder and Water, each element adds something to a combined whole. I think that's what we're really looking for--a grumpy dwarven woodsman cranking open a big rusty beartrap, axe over one shoulder. Meanwhile, lightstepping through the branches above, his guille suited elven companion peers through the impenetrable folliage keeping an eye on the approaching chimera that's been hunting them both, flashing down the distance in tracker sign in the dwarf's peripheral vison.

See. They're both rangers--but wow there's a difference. Now if only we could come up with some nice easy mechanics to peg them on to. That kind of thing I would REALLY go for.

I'm with Krome and Freehold DM. Yep. Both of them. I think the idea is childish and offensive in the extreme. Therefore I'm shopping around for the absolute crappiest, most abused and unsellable copy of the 3.5 book I can so I can pick up the Exalted book for free. Heck I've used my old edition of Exalted so much that the cover fell off. I'd been planning to buy the new one to get all the nice new color art (the first edition was ugly as SIN). Now I am officially going to get my new one for free in exchange for the worst 3.5 book I can find.

These guys just drive me nuts.

Did I mention how thrilled I am with how awesome the Paizo guys are? Yeah.

I just got back from the other thread. Like there I'm trying not to influence my picks based on what other people have said so there may well be some overlap. Fair Warning. This is a GREAT idea by the way. Thanks!

1. A lot of stuff feels recycled, a good chunk lifted wholecloth from Exalted or Warcraft. This is obvious in game mechanics, class design choices, as well as whole parts of the Core Cosmology.

2. The new stuff is really gonzo. It's trying too hard to be a Yes album cover at the risk of not feeling like a living, breathing setting.

3. The devils, the poor poor devils. Their storyline just don't make no sense and it could have easily been fixed.

4. The Core Setting is looking less and less to be a setting at all--but more of a template to slap onto other games--which it really isn't designed for, being chock full of specific names and places (this one really bugs me!)

5. The artificial rift between "heroes" and everyone else, with totally different mechanics and everything. Makes the world seem a lot less credible.

6. A shift from monsters being interesting and culturally unique to monsters being fun combat encounters with mondo powers.

7. The sterilization of magic. Magic used to be unpredictable and fun, and could be used in creative ways. It seems like wherever possible the magic has been simplified in such a way as to make it hard to use in fun innovative ways.

8. Class design feels a lot more video gamey. A lot of the powers don't even try to make sense. The game mechanics show through too much.

9. In or out. They make radical changes, but then keep some stuff untouched. They kill off the brass, bronze and (ARG!) copper dragons, introduce adamantine and iron, and give the green dragon a nose horn. Nothing else changes. It feels really uneven and unsatisfying. I would have like to have seen a real shakeup across the board.

10. The end of the magazines. It just about made me throw up my hands. I left for a good long time with no intention to return. These guys at WotC had no better allies than Dungeon and Dragon, and what they've done with the legacy online just makes me sad. Really if it's any suprise to anyone that the "anti-4e venom" is really anything more "anti-axing Paizo's license venom" then I'm slackjawed with disbelief. Most of this hate doesn't come from trollishness. It comes from love and loyalty. We're an awesome community, and when we feel like our guys are getting roughed up--it makes us band together like romany. Unfortunately 4e has become the target of this. The funny thing is, from all accounts Paizo's doing better with Pathfinder than ever before. Doesn't take the mad out of people though.

I love this! So here's my top ten (FAIR WARNING: I won't read everyone elses responses until after I post mine--so as not to have to worry whether all the good responses are taken or not)

1. Love the huge quantum jump away from Tolkien.

2. Love the Core Setting as new home for all the settingless stuff from other Editions.

3. I really dig the fresh new spin on dwarves, with their friendlier look and mountain valley cities.

4. Love that magic items are scaled by level and can thus be used to make level adjustments to weaker characters (so the whole party doesn't have to be X level or be totally unable to play together)

5. Love that the new classes aren't going to all feed off "spells" but that each one has a distinct abilities list that does what that class should do.

6. Love the freeform dark age feel of the new mapless Core Setting.
7. I absolutely love the new spin on elves, how they've taken a lot of the sting out of them for long time elf haters like myself.

8. I dig the new transitive planes, that gone are the "misty nothing realms" replaces with concrete places that are fun to describe and designed for gaming in.

9. I love the Elemental Vortex and the idea that elementals of numerous kinds can now war with each other in the planes without evaporating or getting doused.

10. I love the new quantum jump in the Forgotten Realms timeline and the huge shakeup in everything 100 years down the line. Makes the Time of Troubles look like the biggest misnomer ever. Heh. Awesome.

Crud. I ran out of numbers. Can you tell I'm a fan? Well off to do my Yin bit.

A dirty, mud covered star saphire.

A telescope.

A battered ring of three wishes with one of the stones broken off from rough treatment.

Lucky pouch.

There's a few reasons for playing female characters as far as I'm concerned. Primarily it's because I tend to use roleplay to learn about people who aren't like me. I'm always striking out in a new direction. I'd like to think that my characters are a wide and diverse group with only a bit of overlap. That said, girls are fascinating. They really do approach things from a very different point of view and it's interesting to try and see things that way.

It's also a bit like why I tend to play a lot of humans. The simulationist in me wants to see a PC group that's similar in composition to the world around them. Those kinds of games where Jedi are supposed to be rare, but yet there's three of them in the group, just rub me the wrong way. A lot of folks want to be the biggest baddest, rarest thing out there. Every other guy is from some extinct bloodline, or some race from across the world, or some wierd niche class. Yuck. Me, personally, I like a character who fits organically into the world--who is something straight out of the baseline. Females are under-represented, so often I'll play one if only just to even things out.

Somewhere hereabouts I read that the new spell list for 4e has come out. I've been digging around trying to find it but am coming up with near to nothing. I found a Design & Development article on the Spell Compendium--but that's a third edition thing. There's also an article on new spells in the Forgotten Realms, but that's for the 3rd edition FRCS book.

If there's new 4e material out I would love to look at it. If anybody's got a link or a quick blurb to get me up to date I would love to hear it. Thanks guys!

Wow I love how this has become a debate about whether this guy literally lives in the wilderness or not. I really kind of got that he did ACTUALLY live in the wilderness, yes, but leave it to Sebastian to find something irritating to derail a whole thread. Yay!

Anyway I'm in agreement that there's some rough parts to D&D that mess up suspension of disbelief. But then most of them are rollovers from earlier editions. Grapple for example, is an attempt to tidy up subdual in earlier games. Guys have gotten polymorphed into weird stuff from near the very beginning of the game. There's a load of things that just don't really make tons of sense as written. The whole Attack of Opportunity thing is a mess. That said 4e doesn't look to be improving that end of things. Mind you I really am digging 4e, but yeah the steps they're taking don't seem to be headed toward making in game things make more sense. Not their priorities unfortunately.

My advice? Take the stuff that doesn't make sense and streamline it however you like. Don't get too hooked up on the details of the rules, just write up your houserules so you don't have to keep ruling on the same hiccup every time it comes up. Best thing is to put it down on a post-it and slap it right into the book.

So what exactly are the new ones supposed to be? Seems grating they'd write a big article on it and not come out with the actual sins themselves. I'd really like a bulleted list, instead it feels more like a rant. Rargh polluters suck! Yeah and pediphiles and rich guys are lame too! And don't even get me going about those guys who genetically engineer stuff--oooh the Big Guy HATES them! (Wonder a bit if dog and horse breeders are gonna' be forced to stop...hmm)

Anyway I would have really appreciated a new list. I thought the punishment list was fun though. No wonder confessions are down. Heh.

Wow I am an old school gamer. They said three poster sized maps and I went wow! I wonder what they'll be maps of! Maybe we'll bet a big Sandpoint style picture of Winterhaven! Maybe a big overview of the region! The thought that they'd just be big bland maze maps with squares for bouncing minis across never even occurred to me.

Blaugh! *twitch* I think I lost a level!

I don't forsee any problem in adapting any or all of these ideas into a third edition game. The basic architecture of the game is unlikely to change much and (much like you could with 2nd edition) you can feel pretty free to take parts of 4e and pretty much use them as written.

I like your idea about "feat" attacks working off of saves. That's a kindova' cool idea. As far as the racial level advancement, a good idea for that I heard batted around on the boards here was to basically combine the character's race and class into a gestalt class (as per Arcana Unearthed--and available for free on the SRD). That way the flavor of an elven paladin versus a dwarven paladin have a really nice mechanical backbone. It seems like a nice way to keep the idea of race affecting character advancement without the dippy 1st edition idea of "leveling up" in the elf class--which has always been a bit jarring.

Wow! I love the painted minis! Thank you so much for the wonderful picture. Yeah I definitely plan to pick up one of these sets! Totally!

There's supposed to be a special subscriber gift associated with Curse of the Crimson Throne. When it was first announced, nobody would mention anything about what it was. Now that some folks are starting to get the first issues, I was wondering if anyone had gotten whatever it is yet. Anyone willing to come out with what they got? Just curious before I subscribe myself...

Well, for one, Rangers CAN'T cast spells anymore. DMs can't use their favorite monster for their campaigns. Rogues HAVE to start with Stealth and Thievery, forget about playing a non-thief Rogue. Wizards lose a lot of utility spells, forced to use illusion/evocation type magic all the time. Magic items, well, suck. Look at what they did to Gauntlets of Ogre Power. You can't Tumble at all unless you use up a precious feat slot to do it. If your elf character was 400 years old, he just died suddenly.

I love how when the rubber hits the road, none of your problems with the game seem to come from it being dumbed down. Not one of these.

Rangers not casting spells anymore certainly is a change, but I'd argue the idea of rangers being locked into a clerical/druidy route of casting nature spells didn't particularly scream ranger. I always felt it was like they just looked at the rangers of lore, Aragorn and Robin Hood, and were at a loss of how to make that something different from a fighter. It was the 70's so they didn't have the fine tuning we've come up with over the next 30 years to make a fun fighter who feels different enough to be his own class--so they gave him spells. That's how you fixed a class back then. And so it got grandfathered in as a ranger thing for every edition since. Personally I've always disliked it. If I want my sneaky hunter guy to cast spells I'll multiclass him.

Likewise rogues. They'd become a junk drawer class. That was sad. You want to make a character who's not magicy? Well your two options were really only fighter or rogue. If your guy wasn't a fighter either well then by default I guess he's a rogue. That doesn't sound like sophistication. That sounds like desperation. More classes that are more tightly defined, with more avenues for development over time is sounding to me like more detail, not less.

Wizards sound like they're getting nailed down to a specific kind of magic, rather than being magical swiss army knives. Warlocks, being another kind of "wizard" are having something different, as will all the others that will doubtless be released in the next few years.

Magic items are finally going to be ranked as far as how much they change a character or creature so you can actually track it. If you run a goblin with a necklace of fireballs you can suddenly nail a CR onto it, rather than have to go with the standard list of equipment or just guess. Awesome.

What they're doing with skills is great. They're cutting out junk that overlaps--like the often maligned character with high spot and low search who can only see things if he's *not* looking for them. Okay, so maybe you can't tumble without a feat, but as it was you couldn't dodge without a feat. Did that make 3rd edition too simplistic?

Don't even get me started on how awesome it is that they made elves reasonable. I'm a bajillion years old, but only 4th level. Go figure. I'm fine with an age cap in the centuries.

It ain't simplistic, it's a different take on the game. For one I dig it like crazy. It takes guts. Yeah, a lot of the changes turned left when I would have gone right, but hey--at least they turned. Whatever comes of it, it should be a fun game.

I want a nice fresh take on D&D with new ideas and a new perspective. I want a complete game, where I don't have to decide what it is, with a nice big expansive core setting and loads of options for taking your game to other settings or for making your own. I want books full of new races, classes, background nations, gear and magic items every year that can fold seamlessly into the games I'm playing without having to jam them into a pre-existing setting where they don't belong.

I fear that this version of D&D will be really wargamey. I fear that they don't know what their setting is, and that they're going to be painting a fun world with one hand, while undermining their efforts with the other--fusing in a bunch of stuff from existing settings (like Warforged, or the Temple of Elemental Evil) that just don't belong there. I fear that their yearly suppliments will not be full of awesome new races and classes, but will instead be mostly gamebreaking or niche-specific feats and spells and dumb optional rules on things I don't care about. I fear all their settings getting hit with the World of Warcraft ray and all the nice flavor D&D has had getting lost in all the epic ubermagical hoorah.

Not looking to play so much as to rave. Wow. I just read a little of the massive reams of hearty information for the game you're doing and dude--looks to be an awesome campaign! I've gotta' say it's nice to see more of these settings now that everything's wrapped up. The depth of what's there is really impressive and makes for a really intriguing backdrop. Good stuff. Anyway enjoy your campaign guys, it looks great!

Okay so I've got the when and where, and a little bit of the what. I got an RSVP e-mail though mentioning a $25 entrance fee. A few questions. What exactly does that entail? Is this on top of the price of rooms for the night? If not, then is there something else going on that I wasn't aware of (as I was pitched it, we were basically gonna' all bring our dice and stuff and nerd out--and maybe see the Paizo offices). I guess I'm just wondering what my $25 buys.

Anyhow I'm thinking of warparting over there in a big rental van--basically taking our whole gaming group with us. It should be way fun. I'm really looking forward to it. Mostly the question comes from the number-crunchy budgeting perspective. Thanks.

I totally understand. It's no sooner than you've got your heading and plotted a nice course, that the wind cuts out all together. Or there's a storm. Or a seagull poops on your map. I know how it is.

Just take your time and get stuff settled away. I'll be around and pop in to see how things are going. No sweat.

I actually like the idea that things like potent taunts and fear effects might drop hit points. It might be a fun way to try out. I personally like the narrative freedom.

That said, I think the idea of people turning into hitpoint balloons is just dumb. You want to reflect that people are getting thicker as they adventure (a questionable hypothesis, but okay) then give them natural armor like every other thing out there that gets a benefit from being thick and hard to hurt. There you go. Certainly I don't see someone with 12 hitpoints suddenly exploding out to 20 hitpoints because he got tougher. That rate of gain is just silly. It doesn't reflect the ability to turn axeblades with your leather tough skin, it represents axes digging into you as hard as they can and not dropping you, arrows raining down on you until you're Mr. Porcupine, falling off hundred foot cliffs rather than walking around just to save some travel time and dusting yourself off. Silly. Now if you're playing a nice game of Dragonball Z on the other hand, maybe this works.

Anyhow I like the idea of taking the abstraction and running with it--taking it at its word and having some fun with it. If it doesn't work out I can always go back to the old reliable system of folks with 8 hitpoints. It ain't goin' anywhere.

1) Do you plan to convert to the new edition of D&D?
Yes. Really excited about it too!

2) If Paizo converts its RPG products to 4.0, how will that affect your purchasing patterns for our products?
No change. I love your products and will keep buying them no matter what. That said I think it's a lousy idea and will make a worse product.

3) If Paizo does not convert its RPG products to 4.0, how will that affect your purchasing patterns for our products?
No change. I love your products and will keep buying them no matter what. That said I think sticking with the original system will really make for a better game.

So I was supposed to e-mail Fatespinner, but somewhere along the line between copying his addy and pasting it somewhere I forgot to actually paste it anywhere before shutting down my computer. Yay me!

So anyway the hope was just to work over what's happened during Berzeral's time away from the group and how to get him back in. Unless I've missed anything I gather he's gone and visited the Hyenas--specifically a charming guy named Bloodhound (something happened here). Then he gets seen by Shador with a bundle of supplies or whatnot leaving from there (presumably not her things though, since those would be at her house, not at the Hyena flophouse--and he also would likely have tried to get them back to her that same night). Then the next morning he drops by the apartment looking to take the girl off into the wastes to be attended to (ie. magically boondoggled en route and kept prisoner for nine months or so). The expectation was to be that he would be gone for nearly a month, and pays the other guys five gold for their troubles, leaving him with something in the neighborhood of 15 gold left.

Anyhoo if you wanna' shoot me back an e-mail, I'm at crypttales@yahoo.com.

I dont know really what kind of response you're looking for-- but it's a message board community and lots of people feel entitled to give their opinion whether invited or not, so I'll lemming away and dump my $.02.

Yours was just fine. To tell you the truth it's just me airing some old issues. It's not a boards thing really (though I've heard it a fair bit here as well as everywhere else). Nah the community here are as fine a bunch of souls as I've found anywhere.

As far as expected responses, I figured they'd run the gamut from the occassional "Here-here!" or "Huzzah!" to the occasional explanation of what's meant when someone describes D&D as being a "non-dramatic" game. I figure there's a load of other perspective out there that aren't mine.

Granted if I didn't feel there were folks out there who didn't care a lot about story I'd be at a real loss to explain the awesome stuff that used to grace the pages of Dungeon magazine or the reams and reams of beautiful prose that comes out in my monthly Pathfinder.

Mostly just raisin' the issue.

Seriously I get this a lot.

I cut my early roleplayer teeth on drama heavy games like World of Darkness and Cyberpunk, dark gritty characters is rich and vivid settings. Where a meaningful glare across a smoke-filled bar was often as much of a turning point in the game as a fight scene with a BBEG.

When I "discovered" D&D it was back in 2nd edition. I took a look through the old Gary Gygax Monster Manual and saw what my games were missing. Hundreds of races, some enemies and some allies, but all with this tremendous depth and color. You could tell stories for ever with nothing but just that book.

People laughed at me. They still do.

D&D is about kicking in the door, they say. The game isn't about deep melodrama or character exploration, it's about dungeons and fighting. You don't play THIS game to have meaningful character moments. You do it to get fat loot and level up. If you want that stuff, go play World of Darkness.

The trouble is World of Darkness is flat. There just isn't the same depth to it. You've got, at most, a handful of possible antagonist types, a few races that are all really rare, a few kinds of special abilities that all depend on you being some kind of rare critter, and a really clunky core mechanic that can't support much detail and with wheels that fall off once there's any kind of power scale.

Most "dramatic" game systems suffer from the same thing. They're not more dramatic, they're just bad. They're badly written, don't have enough complexity or flexibility, and usually are way underpopulated with way too few factions or races.

Between that and using the D&D setting and milking it for all the rich creamy drama goodness I can I'm all for playing D&D. Toss the dungeons, toss the modules and the minis and the little five foot squares and what you have is a game with not one but a dozen fully fleshed out awesome worlds. Politics, religion, death, morality, heroism. The game is thick with these issues without even trying. People really think D&D isn't about dramatic roleplaying? It's hard to believe.

For whatever reason, the rogue players in this campaign seem to drop out like pregnant teenagers. :)

Well I don't know nuthin' about the rogue players, but I think I can take a stab at the reason as to all the pregnant teenagers *thumbs over to Phil*

Again, Mr. Thomson, you're proving to be an awesome breath of fresh air with regards to 4e. It really means a lot to have someone from WotC personally look at and answer questions. Consequently we're flooding you. Sorry.

I've been reading Worlds & Monsters and the idea of what constitutes the game "world" is a bit tricky. I'm hoping for a nice overarching place to contain the various adventures and sourcebook materials, and from some of what I've seen it looks to be that: specific countries, race backstories, adventure sites and historical events--even specific names for this place, like The Middle Realm (which I personally love a lot) or Creation.

Other stuff though makes me think the term "world" is actually more like a "template" which gets applied to any setting to make it feel more intrinsically D&D.

The former I love. The latter I worry about. I don't know how well the template fits the two established settings, and likewise I worry that we might end up with the same problem as last time around--lots of books with "setting" information that seem to describe no setting in particular.

I guess if you could clarify what the new Core Setting will be like, I'd be really really grateful.

Thanks again. Sorry for the longwinded question.

Dude I was totally kidding! You're awesome though for doing it! Seriously though it's a great campaign everybody...it's only dehumanized me a little!

Though arguably I was pretty callous before the game even started.

No problem. In the meantime I'd love a bit of an update. Presumably I arranged something with the Hyena named Bloodhound and am off to meet them?

For my part there's been a lot of talking up the huge beast of a northman and the potent spawn he could supply to their warriors once properly reared. The notion that they could have some eight foot tall deathdealer has got Berzeral absolutely giddy. It is simultaneously his primary motivation as well as their payment.

Now granted there's some difficulties...of course, but nothing that can't be overcome with guile and the proper application of malice.

So it's been a week. Any sign from Lich Loved? We ready to get going? Just curious what the ETA is for the next post. Anyhow it's great that we're resurrecting the old campaign. Looking forward to seeing what you've got!

Then there is the issue of "collectable minis" (I don't paint my own minis). If I could buy them on demand (at a none inflated price for being "collectable") I would buy every mini of every monster I would possible run. But untill then, they can suck an egg.

Ever on the lookout to make the fine folks at Paizo a buck!

Seriously their a la cart way to buy minis is the only way to buy minis. Sure if you want Drizzt or a big ol' dragon it's like $30 but there are a ton of minis you can get for a buck! Try getting that from Games Workshop! I don't hardly use minis and I bought myself a big shoebox full just because they're cool looking and nicely priced!

And I don't even ever use a battlemap.

I've gotta' say I'm fat and square on the side of Nick and the OP. I play for story. We've tried the battlemap-module thing a couple of times (mostly just as a quick "something different" between games, or when I've gone over as a guest to play with a different group). It's just never as vivid. Roleplaying grinds to a halt, visual description grinds to a halt, and I find myself disconnecting my imagination. The little plastic figure becomes my character. It really does distract a lot more than it helps.

I tend to be okay with making some of the more nitty-gritty "tactical" stuff a bit more subjective. Losing a bit of the wargaminess doesn't bother me a bit. Frankly a lot of the combat section of the PHB just doesn't do it for me. I don't agree with their premises a lot of the time, or sometimes when I do it just feels like more mechanics than I want or care to devote to memory. Fast and loose is the way for me.

So yeah, as much as I understand that there's a load of folks who prefer that kind of game, I'm all for lining the little five-foot square battlemats up against the wall. They stink! Vive la revolution!