Grenouillebleue's page

I've been toying with the idea for some time, and now a new PF game gives me the opportunity to try it out.

I'll start out at level 5 with a 20 point buy. I started to build the guy as a run-of-the-mill TWF but they're always starved for feats and I wasn't pleased with the result. So here's what I'd like to do instead:

Human Fighter 1/Ninja (scout) 4

STR 18
DEX 13
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 14

Feats:
1: Toughness
1h: Dodge
1f: Weapon focus (falchion)
3: Iron Will
5: Extra Ki

Ki tricks:
- Vanishing trick
- Befuddling strike

Stuff:
+1 Falchion
+1 Full plate
+1 ring of protection
+1 amulet of natural armor
+1 cloak of resistance

This gives him 24 AC, not too shabby and 6 ki, which is ok as well. Since he doesn't rely on dex, I could go for scout and lose Uncanny dodge.

His regular attack is +9 for 2d6+6
When he's flanking or charging, that's +11 for 4d6+6.

He can use his ki to get another attack, go invisible or basically mess with the opponents plan.

As for drawbacks, he only has 20ft move (that's ok I guess, since I don't want to be the first in melee) and -5 armor penalty (that hurts like hell, no acrobatics for me and that sucks).

Any thoughts ? Opinions ? Would it be fun to play ? Would it be powerful enough ? Any ideas on better feats to take ? Any feats out there that would help me with my armor penalty or my move ?

Thanks a lot for your time ;)

Thanks guys,

It did help ;)

1) A player asked me how much an item able to cast "Magic Armor" would cost.

I searched through my DM guide and found these rules: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items#Table-Estimating-Magic-Item-Gold-Piece- Values

Use-activated or continuous ---->Spell level x caster level x 2,000 gp2

(The ² tells me that a spell in hours per level makes no adjustment to the price).

So basically, bracers that would give him permanent mage armor would cost a measly 1 x 1 x 2000 = 2000 gold ?

What's the point of bracers of armor, then ?

2) Another player wanted to have gloves that would allow him to cast "gravity bow" 3 times a day, as a zen archer.

So that's the same formula as above (except that the price is doubled for a spell in minute per level) = 4000 gold to have a continuous effect.

Charges per day----> Divide by (5 divided by charges per day) = 2400 gold

This sounds dirt cheap again. Did I get something wrong, or does that mean that you can emulate some very powerful level 1 spells (lead blade, gravity bow, mage armor, shield...) with very little coin ?

Here's a last example I thought of: with this formula, a ring of permanent SHIELD spell would cost 4000 gold. So what's the point of the "ring of force" that cost 8500 gold and is half as useful ?

Hello,

I'm posting here because my last two games were nightmarish, with me getting stomped on at every single encounter.

I'm playing as a level 12 wizard, and I'm very happy about what my character can do as far as utility, damage, buffing and debuffing is concerned. However, i'm questioning my survivability and wondering what I am doing wrong.

In the earlier levels, I was quite safe through using mirror image, fly, displacement and all those lovely illusion spells that made me feel comfy. But now, we're at a level where almost every encounter has a mob with true seeing in it (and I guess it'll get worse the higher level we are).

Basically, a fight goes like this: I cast haste on the party, a mob charges me or, worse, teleports to me(cuz I'm a wizard, so I'm a squishy target) and go a$%&@## on my low-AC, low-HP ass. Or the boss is an archer and will hit me with a hail of arrows and drop me in a round.

With true seeing, none of my defense work. And when we're in a dungeon, overland flight isn't that much of an asset.

Did I overlook some spells ? What could I use to be more resilient - apart from StoneSkin, which is costly and can actually benefit the tank more than me ?

Thanks for your input.

I freely admit I didn't read the whole thread, so people might already have answered that, but how does FoB now work with the sohei ?

IIRC, the Sohei can flurry with a polearm. Since there are no one-handed polearms, what would this mean ?

Normally I'd take Shield Other. The ability to take the hit from the front runners is going to make your channels worth more.

I am not entirely sure at level 4, since your channels isn't that strong yet (and no phylactery of positive channeling).

Another good choice is remove paralysis, but you could buy that as a scroll.

I already have some sort of shield other with Life link, but I see what you mean ;)

Remove paralysis could be a good choice indeed. Was also thinking about Calm Emotions.

I'm playing with a friend's group tonight. I don't expect to play much with them, just thought I'd give them a hand since they are supposed to face many dangerous challenges and they don't have a dedicated healer.

They currently have a sorcerer, a barbarian, an archer ranger and a battle cleric. The battle cleric is sick and tired of healing - he thought he'd be a dangerous buffed-up fighter when everybody just thinks of him as a bandaid.

Anyway, here's the thing. Creating the oracle of life was pretty easy, as was the choice of his first level spells. However, I can choose one level 4 spell, and I really don't know which one to pick.

Please remember that, as a level 4 NG oracle of life, I already have cure moderate wounds and lesser restoration.

Thanks a lot for your advice.

Definitely not over powered. I am willing to bet that when you reflect back, while you were all but unhittable, the other combat classes were dishing out more damage than you by far. At 8th level, 1d10+7 at +14 on a 20/x2 is nothing special, in fact a barbarian should be able to exceed your mean DPR without bothering to rage.

Crane Style is nice, but I find it a cul-de-sac because you effectively lose on hitting when you are bad enough at that as it is, and there is not much point getting Combat Expertise which otherwise opens the monk to many more feats they could really use later in the game.

Well, combat expertise needs a 13 int, which is one of the very few dump stats the monk has. I'm not comfortable with a low-INT so I stayed at 10, but I certainly couldn't find the point-buy to get 13 ^^

I agree that I wasn't the biggest hitter - that is, until the party realized I was nigh unhittable and started packing the buffs on me ;) But yeah, of course I wasn't the biggest DPS - though it came close since the DM didn't hit & run but packed the mobs tightly around me. Five hits at 1d10+7 was nothing to sneeze at either.

He tried ranged attacks, but I had deflect arrows (and high AC).
He tried spells, but I had high saves.
He tried rays, and it actually worked (lost 3 levels on an enervation) though my touch AC still was the highest of the party.

Basically, for the cost of 3 feats, I had +4 AC for -1 to hit (which is already pretty good per se) AND I could deflect an attack AND I could retaliate.

I agree that lots of classes could benefit from crane style. However, it only really shines when your AC is already high enough, so that only the odd crit threatens you. Crane style when you have 20 AC is nothing special.

A friend invited me this weekend to play a PF level 8 game (20 point buy). When asked what characters they already had in the group and which class they would like me to play, he answered "whatever you want, the point is to have fun. It'll be challenging, though, so don't play a gimp class like monk, you'd get pounded to the ground".

Well. Needless to say, this was a challenge I childishly couldn't pass. I'm not much of a minmaxer, but I built a Quinggong Monk using Crane Style and, well, basically I owned the game, stealing the thunder from a barbarian, an oracle of battle and a bard/RDD.

Fighting defensively, my AC (with bracers of armor +3, ring of protection +2, barkskin from ki) was 31.

10 + 3 (dex) + 3 (wis) + 1 (dodge) + 2 (ring) + 3 (barkskin)+ 2 (monk bonus) + 3 (armor) + 4 (defensive).

Most of the mooks could only hit me on a 20, while I had four attacks (+14/+14/+9/+9 for 1d10+7) unbuffed.

The couple elite mobs we had to fight (including an ogre barbarian, a bone golem or a stone giant) usually were between +16 and +20 on their first hit, which means they *could* hit me, but it was still pretty difficult. And when that happened, well, their hit got deflected and I retaliated.

During a 10 hours play session that was pretty much only monster-bashing, I filled the tank role and got hit maybe twice. The only time I felt in danger was when two level 7 kenku rogues surprised me (so I wasn't in defensive mode) and sneak-attacked me for 50 damage. Well, I took the hit, spat the blood off my mouth, attacked them defensively, and smiled at the way they couldn't finish me off.

So, long story short, I asked them if I had convinced them that the monk was in no way underpowered, and their answer was: "well, I don't know about the monk, but the Crane Style is so ridiculously unbalanced that we'll ban in from further play".

I don't really care since it was a one-shot, but what do you think (apart from churlish tantrums from both sides) ? Is Crane Style really unbalanced ? What could the GM have done to challenge me ?

If you really want to deal damage, just go fighter 1/Bard 4 then your levels of dragon disciple. But that's not the best way to play a DD imho.

Hello,

I know that, with greater spell specialization and admixture, you can spontaneously cast your specialized spell and thus turn a fireball into an iceball. This would allow you to add the rime spell metamagic.

How does it work for the spells that you DON'T spontaneously cast ? Is there a way to add rime spell to a spell that wasn't ice to begin with ? Can i decide, while preparing my spells, that THIS PARTICULAR BURNING HANDS will be an ice spell, and thus add the rime metamagic ?

Thanks for your help, I'm still wondering whether it's a good idea to take rime spell in my build ^^

Play some Rihanna already :D

...
OK. I think i'll just run and hide, then ;)

Agile weapon is from Pathfinder Society Field Guide - which seems to be Pathfinder, not 3.5.

Really ? I can't find the "agile" capacity on paizo.com, nor herolab, nor d20pfsrd. Is it good for PFS play then ?

Btw, I quickly built a level 13 archer and without even trying he's at +32/+27/+22 (+30/+30/+25/+20 with rapid shot). Even against 37 AC, that's gonna hurt.

Also, as a 13th level wizard, just use cloudkill. No save, 1d4 fort per round. You can even throw an empowered.

Or forcecage. Now that would be fun.

First of all, the alchemist might be shaken by the wyrm's frightful presence.

Then, the wyrm is immune to acid, so your assumption that the alchemist could switch to acid damage is moot.

Then, the wyrm has displacement and mirror image. Why on earth would he fight without any defensive spell ? Mirror image would be the alchemist's bane.

Oh, and why would he charge the alchemist when he can either Power Word stun him (I highly doubt a 13th level alchemist would have 150+ hp) or just disintegrate him.

I personally like to start from scratch (i.e. level 1, no stuff, no reputation, PC don't know each other). Seems much more interesting to me to build our own history this way.

However, low-level PF campaigns start to be a bit boring after a while. Level 1-2 fights are usually based on pure luck.

This is the reason why my friends and I usually go with a logarithmic progression: we breeze through the first few levels then add one session to the mix everytime.

That means one game to go to level 2, two more to level 3, three more to level 4... and by the time you're level 10, you have to play 10 times to get to level 11.

This works perfectly for us:
- We quickly get a couple goodies to play with
- We can build on own history from scratch
- The stronger you become, the harder it is to get even better.

I wouldn't like it any other way.

Could someone do the math to compare Strength-based elven barbarian with regular elved curve blade against Dexterity-based elven Urban Barbarian with agile version with that weapon? I think that could be worthwhile option for SmiloDan.

Depends what kind of game he's playing. The agile property is 3.5, not PF.

It's a terrible idea. I'm all for allowing some kind of "dervish dance" feat for other finessable weapons. But it *should* cost something. Especially since dex is also the prerequisite to all the TWF feats.

How about a glaive ?
It's 20 (x3) instead of 18-20 (x2) so you lose on damage, but you win on reach.

I thought superstitious was just about one of the worst rage powers, since it works on your party too (this means no heal coming our way...) ?

I keep reading stuff on the forums about barbarians and still don't get why they are so popular.

They're supposed to deal high-damage. However, a level 20 barbarian vs a level 20 fighter will lose on:
- Greater Focus (+1 to hit)
- Weapon spe & Greater (+ 4 to damage)
- Weapon training (+4 to hit, +4 to damage)
- gloves of the duelist (+2 to hit, +2 to damage).

So the barbarian loses +7 to hit, +10 to damage.

His mighty rage gives him +8 strength, so that's +4 to hit, +6 to damage (assuming the best scenario with a 2H weapon).

Sure, he'll have more HP (although not that much, around 22 if we get the standard protection) but he'll have way less AC.

I looked at the rage powers, but they don't seem that great to me (apart from the all-mighty "come and get me", which can still prove risky, and the greater beast totem, which gives pounce but costs 3 powers).

So what ? Is it just rage cycling ? What did I miss ?

My bad, mixed it up with Heirloom weapon ;)

Because IIRC ancestral arms got nerfed and doesn't give Exotic Proficiency any more.

You really want to pimp it ? Then DON'T GO ELF. You dumped INT and your DEX is average.

Go human, spend the bonus feat on elven curveblade proficiency.

This would allow you to put your +2 in STR.

20 pt buy:

STR 22
CON 14
DEX 14
INT 8
WIS 12
CHA 10

You lose 1 AC and 1 reflex.
You win 20 HP, +2 fort, +1 will.

I don't understand why dragon style would give you bonuses to natural attacks.

A fighter 10 is a truly powerful character. He probably has room enough for Iron Will and Improved Iron Will, so he's no pushover against mind spells (and even less so if he got half-elf with the dual minded feat). He can take missile shield, which would screw the AA over. He'll probably have AC through the roof and many HPs. He also could hit like a truck.

So, yes, a fighter 10 *is* powerful.
Could be worse if he were antipaladin, though ^^

An Inquisitor won't cover the arcane part, but he'll have good damage, good utility, many skills per level, the possibility to be the party face with some inquisition if need be, and be a jack-of-all-trades that doesn't suck.

I'd go for this.

The more I see this spell, the more I wonder what his drawbacks are. One of my players used it in a lvl 11 oneshot I did sunday and it seems borderline overpowered to me.

It's a ranged touch attack (pretty easy to hit on most opponents, especially the big, hulking ones) with no saves. If you're an elf, or you invested in the Spell Penetration Feat Tax, you will have a good chance to beat the SR (no worse than any other spell, anyway).

As a DM, I wonder how I can counter this. Enervation or, even worse, maximized or empowered or quickened ones, seemed to be the end-all be-all of every boss I threw at them. Losing 1d4 levels, let alone 4 or even 6 WITHOUT SAVE turns the biggest dragon into a harmless kitten.

So maybe I read it wrong, maybe I didn't apply the loss of hit dice correctly, but I thought my Red Dragon would be a worthy opponent, when he actually was a cakewalk once properly enervated.

First of all: This is for Core + APG ONLY!!!! No UM or UC or other content available! Also no traits (unless bought by feat). 20pt buy.

How about keeping your wizard but making him more blast-friendly ? Or, if you're annoyed at your GM's luck with dice, just go ray-specced. No saves means you're the one throwing the dice. At level 5, you could have some fun with scorching ray. And at level 7, don't forget to pick enervation ;)

Halfling VOP Manoeuver Master level 10

Str 10, Dex 20, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 10

1M: Improved Dirty trick
1: Agile Manoeuvers
2M: Improved Trip
3: Dodge
5: Crane Style
6M: Greater Dirty Trick
7: Crane Wing
9: Toughness
10: Greater Trip

When fighting defensively, you have 24 AC and can deflect one attack per round. That's an ok defense for level 10.

Your saves are +10/+13/+10. OK saves for level 10.

Your HP (with FC going to HP) is 83. Not too shabby.

You can trip at +18 and dirty trick at +18. You won't be a melee monster, but you certainly can be a valuable addition to any party. Also, many mobs are immune to trip while none are immune to every dirty trick in the book.

Else go Tetori. You'll have +22 to grapple

Ok, they weren't on the recap ^^

That explains a lot, thanks !
Actually, your build would do more damage if you were to use the scimitar two-handed.

How did you get +21/+16 on your fighter ?

I found 8 (bab) + 7 (str) + 2 (scimitar bonus) + 1 (focus) + 1 (training) = 19 ?

If a fighter has the crane style chain feat, can he use a longsword 2-handed during his turn then switch to a 1H stance, so as to use Crane Wing ?

Once per round while using Crane Style, when you have at least one hand free and are either fighting defensively or using the total defense action, you can deflect one melee weapon attack that would normally hit you. You expend no action to deflect the attack, but you must be aware of it and not flat-footed. An attack so deflected deals no damage to you.

Same question with Crane Riposte. If I deflect the melee attack, I get a free AoO. Can I switch to a 2H stance to perform said AoO ?

I could lose the brawler template. That would lower my damage by 2 but I guess I could deal with it.

Good idea !

A shield would be great, but I just couldn't bring myself to use one RP-wise.

A hulking brute that punches you to death while wearing 50 pounds of steel looks fun to me. Add a shield, and it looks ridiculous.

But yeah, in terms of sheer power, a heavy shield would be great. With 31 AC, nothing but a critical could harm me - and those would be parried by crane style ^^

Thanks for your refreshing honesty ;)

For my HP: I get +3 hp per level (+2 from con, +1 from both favored with half-elf).

So I have 10 hp + 3d10 (6 average, so 18) + 4d8 (5 average, so 20) + 24.
That's 72.

I would love to try again at another level, just tell me which one. The only downside of this build is the cost of the amulet of mighty fists vs the cost of a regular weapon ;)

Get Agile on it asap, but it'll still give pretty good damage with 1d10+1.

I've seen a lot of posts on these forums speaking about the agile or guided qualities. Is it PFS-approved ? I don't see it on Herolab, so I'm wondering.

+7 from BAB, + 8 from STR, + 1 from brawler, +1 from amulet and + 1 from weapon focus = +18.

He would get weapon training, improved BAB for power attack, and be much more in line to take fighter only feats later on in his career. He would also be able to move full speed in that full plate. I would likely go with a scimitar though, and just be confident in my unarmed strike as a backup weapon.

I'm having some trouble figuring out how you got +18 on your unarmed strike, so if you wouldn't mind posting the breakdown, I would appreciate it.

I'll soon post an 8th level fighter! :)

25 point-buy, 33,000gp loot.

I get + 8 from strength, + 2 from weapon spe, + 1 from amulet, + 3 from brawler and + 4 from dragon ferocity.

That's + 18. Actually, the first hit would be at +22 (dragon style).

These numbers go to +22 or +26 with PA.

Well, he wouldn't get the dragon style bonus to damage nor the improved damage die from monk, would he ?

Or did I miss something again ?

As for the 30ft, I'm wondering myself. Maybe a Herolab bug...

Not sure what you're looking for here.

I guess I was looking for what Mergy said, i.e. the fine prints someone always forgets :D

Would the build hold its own in a fight even without the extra attack ?

I wanted to build a heavy hitter that would also get nice defenses and some utility. Here's what I came up with (25 pt buy)

Male Half-Elf Fighter (Brawler) 4 Monk (Master of Many Styles) 4

LN Medium Humanoid (Elf, Human)
Init +3; Senses Low-Light Vision; Perception +14
--------------------
DEFENSE
--------------------
AC 28, touch 14, flat-footed 22 (+11 armor, +1 Dex, +1 deflection, +5 dodge)
hp 72 (4d10+4d8+16)
Fort +12, Ref +8, Will +11
Defensive Abilities Bravery +1; Immune sleep; Resist Elven Immunities
--------------------
OFFENSE
--------------------
Spd 30 ft.
Melee Unarmed Strike +18/+13 (1d8+18/20/x2)
Special Attacks Close Combatant +1/+3, Ki Strike, Magic
--------------------
STATISTICS
--------------------
Str 22/26, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8

Feats Crane Riposte, Crane Style, Crane Wing, Dodge, Dragon Ferocity +4, 1d4+8r, Dragon Style, Improved Unarmed Strike, Monk Weapon Proficiencies, Power Attack -2/+4, Stunning Fist (5/day) (DC 15), Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike, Weapon Specialization: Unarmed Strike
Traits Indomitable Faith, Reactionary

Combat Gear +2 Full Plate; Other Gear Amulet of Mighty Fists +1, Belt of Giant Strength, +4, Cloak of Resistance, +2, Ring of Protection, +1

Basically, when I fight defensively (fusing Crane Style and Dragon Style), I get 28 AC and a free deflection + riposte. At level 8, this means I can deal pretty well with melee attacks.

My saves are quite high as well from dipping into monks.

I can attack two times at +18/+13 for 1d8+18. With PA, that's 1d8+22.
I have only 3 Ki for now (planning to take extra ki) but that's 3 free attacks I can make so far.

Any thoughts ? What do you think about this build ?

From Core:

You can make attacks with natural weapons in combination with attacks made with a melee weapon and unarmed strikes, so long as a different limb is used for each attack. For example, you cannot make a claw attack and also use that hand to make attacks with a longsword. When you make additional attacks in this way, all of your natural attacks are treated as secondary natural attacks, using your base attack bonus minus 5 and adding only 1/2 of your Strength modifier on damage rolls. In addition, all of your attacks made with melee weapons and unarmed strikes are made as if you were two-weapon fighting. Your natural attacks are treated as light, off-hand weapons for determining the penalty to your other attacks. Feats such as Two-Weapon Fighting and Multiattack can reduce these penalties.

So :

Without any natural claw or whatever on his limbs, this synthesist has ONE lousy attack per round (either bare-handed or with a weapon).

IF (and that would cost a lot of evolution points) a synthesist were to have four tentacles, or claws (or any other kind of natural attack), he could make one attack at -4 BAB and four attacks at -5 BAB (for 1/2 str).

Even if you were to allow a bestiary feat, you would still eat -2 BAB to every attack and have 1/2 str to damage.

Don't mix natural attacks and weapon attacks on a synthesist. EVER. That's the worst thing you could do.

Your player would be much better off as a Synthesist 5, only counting on his natural attacks to deal damage. Then he would get no penalty to BAB and full STR to damage.

Thanks for your help. I can't believe I didn't see this. I read the FoB part over and over again without bothering to read the "armor" one...

Ah well. Thanks for pointing out my stupidity ;)

Our Kingmaker campaign is pretty murderous and we already got 2 TPKs. I plan on playing a monk this time, but they're extra squishy at low level. So I'm thinking about going fighter 1/monk x, and using medium or heavy armor.

From what I gathered, I will merely lose the AC bonus (from Wis and monk levels) and the fast movement. But can I still flurry and (later on) use ki ?

Quick question: it seems everybody favors the dervish dancer build over the STR build, so as to avoid a serious case of MAD.

It looks well on paper (very well indeed), but going elf instead of human AND taking weapon finesse + dervish dance puts us three feats lower than our STR brethen.

Since the magus seems a bit feat-starved (what with all these metamagical feats they have to take, and the combat ones, and the odd iron will), is it really a fair trade ? It basically boils down to losing 2 or 3 AC (depending on how many points you can invest) for the cost of 3 feats.

Also, very few builds seem to take Combat Casting. I guess it's a waste of a feat at higher levels, but it looks like a lifesaver at the beginning of the game.

Very nice !

Perhaps worth adding that a dip into wizard would give you admixture, which is pure gold for a higher-level blaster.