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Here is another BBEG rounding out the villains for level 12.

Summoner CR15

Here is the rank and file soldier of a sorcerer clan the group will face. The bloodline for this clan is a variant of celestial, elemental, and fiendish.

Hellfire Sorcerer CR9

And here is one of the BBEGs to round up our chapter for 12th level. Once he's released from his magical prison, the PCs will find him supported by two of the slave-liches above, and 8 of the eternal warriors who make up his personal guard.

Graveknight CR15

Here are some more servants to an upcoming BBEG. They are slaves who have been forced to transform into liches, and serve and evil temple.

Death Cult Servants

Thanks for all the input. Looks like I need to check out / purchase Unchained sooner rather than later. I also missed some of those threads when I did my search.

Another alternate to #1 was to reduce the number of extra attacks to the levels listed in 5e, so martials would only see 3 extra attacks in their progression, but I'll check out Unchained first.

I normally wouldn't mind playing around with something like this, but this particular campaign has been going very well, and everyone has expressed interest in continuing to 20th, so I don't want to throw rules experiments in either.

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I debated on where to post this, and thought it most appropriate to place it here as I'm interested in how others think this may fit with the existing PF rules.

Some friends were telling me about 5e and I'm thinking of house-ruling a couple items.

1. All iterative attacks are just full attacks. In other words, once a PC has gained an iterative attack, use your full attack bonus rather than -5 on the 2nd attack.
2. Alter the movement rules to allow full attacks within the standard base movement. In other words, if your base speed is 20, you can move 20 feet and get a full attack.
3. In addition, one can move during a full attack up to their base speed. For example, a paladin with a base speed of 20 could move 10 feet, hit someone, and then move another 10 feet and attack another opponent. Movement would still provoke AOOs.
4. No more than 4 spells active on a PC at a time.

I'm not a fan of house rules, but I'd like this attempt at simplifying the math while adding some dynamics to combat as our group goes into 12th level and beyond.

Here are some undead minions of a graveknight coming to the campaign soon.

Eternal Warrior CR10

In my homebrew, reptilians are the primary races. Think Planet of the Apes, but with a variant lizard-folk replacing ape-men. Then throw in dragon-born, a form of tiefling, faen, cat-folk, and half-giants as other minor races.

Here's a bad guy that I think will give my PCs a very rough time (all good alignment, 3 clerics). This unholy warrior will be accompanied by some of the rogues listed above.

Anti-Paladin CR13

An assassin accompanying the rogues.

Phyrian Assassin CR12

Enemy Rogues

Phyrian Rogues CR9

A Superstitious Barbarian Ally

Raging Witch Slayer CR11

Witch Hunters (Well, Spellbreakers to be exact)

Inquisitors CR9

An Arcane Caster Hating Inquisitor

Witch Hunter Leader CR12

A dragon's champion. This fighter is the bodyguard of an CR13 dragon.

Dragonbred Fighter CR12.

I find the lack of Excel love in this thread disturbing. You're not having fun unless your crunching numbers.

If you wish to go more loosely, just plan 4 to 5 encounters as I mentioned above that are CR appropriate. Use those as a group of encounters that would probably be confronted before a rest period is available (roughly). Obviously, this will vary by group. Figure out a period of game time that seems to be agreeable to your players and yourself for when leveling up seems appropriate. My games are more combat focused so we tend to complete 3 or 4 encounter groups (12 CR appropriate encounters) in one four hour session. As such we tend to level up 2nd or 3rd gaming session.

Interestingly enough, I'm retooling an old campaign that I built myself. While I tend to use milestones as well, I still like to calculate the XP for each encounter and have a running total.

Basically, I have a big Excel spreadsheet with a worksheet for every 2 or 3 levels. I split it into chapters like an AP, but whatever works best for you will do. I also use the Slow XP chart. This way if the PCs skip something, or bypass a few encounters, I don't really sweat it. The players tend to level up every other gaming session (or third session), and it seems to be going well.

Yes, compiling Excel spreadsheets on encounters and treasure tables is what I call fun and relaxing.

So for example, if in Chapter 1, I want to go from Level 1 to Level 3, that is 7,500 XP on the slow path per PC, which is 30,000 total XP. I'll then list out columns for Encounter Name, XP, # of encounters (may have more than one orc after all), and total XP. When the total XP is at 30,000, I then plan encounter groups. For example, the PCs may need to overcome an orc outpost. That may consist of 4-5 appropriate encounters. I try to stick to 4-5 because if the PCs mess up and the whole complex comes down on their heads then they have an epic but survivable (barely) encounter.

I also make another Excel sheet for treasure and in a similar manner, calculate the total I want to give and split accordingly among types of treasure.

I'll stop before this gets much longer, but I hope this is helpful.

Thanks for all of the replies. I don't see the Inquisitor very much at my table, so I wasn't aware of the options there.

I don't really have a problem with granting FE Arcane Caster to my home campaign but I do like to make sure I'm sticking to the rules as much as possible (ie minimum house rules). However, I this sect is rare and rather fanatical so they aren't well represented in my world. As a counter balance, there is also a group that is extremely opposed to the "immortals" and their divine servants, who have similar powers.

Is there such a thing out there somewhere?

In my homebrew, I have a group that specializes in hunting down arcane casters, basically a religious sect that sees all magic that comes from a source other than divine as heretical. None of the PCs have this ability, but they'll be running into some of their fanatics soon. Just thought I'd check to see if one of the various supplement books has come out with something like this that I missed. I don't think I've missed it, but just in case . . .

Other than that, they have the Inquisitor feat from the Nyambe campaign setting.

One of a few giant miscreants.

Giant Brigand CR13

It's been a while, but it took us a while to catch up in-game. Here's a homebrew race.

Dragonbred Sorcerer CR11

Ugh. Now I've wasted most of the evening skimming through the last three books. I'd love to run this again with a group like this.

I still think they'll do fine, but there are some sweet challenges ahead.

I ran a similar group through Second Darkness. I was hesitant at first as well, but they ended up steam rolling through most encounters.

On one hand, I was surprised how quickly they chewed through encounters, but that AP also seemed to have quite a few week fights (if I recall correctly)

Armageddon Echo spoiler:

We even had the flying invisible wizard move from theory to actual game play. However as someone pointed out earlier the APs don't always optimize enemy tactics or lairs.

The wizard at the end received reports of an enemy force fighting their way to his position. He gathered his allies including the dragon for a great show down, I even cheated an enlarged some rooms to give more maneuverability. The dragon and minions went down fast. A few people dropped, but eventually, the wizard just ran out of spells after eluding the remaining PCs.

But unless you are going to add scrolls and wands to the AP enemies as written just to screw over the PCs, the AP enemies won't likely be spamming them with fireballs.

It has been a long time since I ran RotRL, but I'd suggest reviewing everything just to make sure there isn't some point where they can only move forward with a caster. For example, I can't recall if you need a caster to get into a certain forgotten laboratory.

In addition, the AP does a pretty good job of letting the PCs know that they may be facing wizards. They should have plenty of time to gear themselves accordingly.

It would be nice if the Fighter's Weapon Training added proficiencies with the selected weapon group (ie Blades gives exotic weapon proficiency with all exotic blades included on the list). Or even a feat that would give blanket exotic proficiencies to all weapons in a group.

Succubus Rogue CR12

Harpy Bard CR11

Another officer in the Centaur-Harpy forces

Harpy Oracle CR10

I noticed a few errors which have been corrected, such as HP on one of the harpy leaders. I'm still filling out some of the support troops for the harpy - centaur forces.

Harpy Sorcerer
Harpy Sorcerer CR9

The Centaur War Leader

Centaur War Leader CR 12

A Centaur Witch supporting the upcoming centaur leadership.

Centaur Witch CR 9

And a leader for the Centaur Bloodragers

Centaur Bloodrager Leader.

I'm curious as to why you would want this thing? Sure it would impress the peasants, but CR appropriate encounters will likely ignore it or destroy it fairly soon, especially as you advance into the upper teens.

Centaur Bloodrager

Centaur Bloodrager

Rabbiteconomist wrote:
Those centaur shock troops are nasty. I love it.

Thanks. The group will meet them this weekend.

Cannibal Ragers


Summoner from earlier in the campaign


An elite harpy agent.

Harpy Hunt Leader.

Elite Centaur Shock Trooper. Only slightly different from the longspearman.

Elite Centaur Shock Trooper.

Elite Centaur Longspearman

Centaur Elite Longspear.

Regular Centaur Troops

Centaur Troops.

I'm rebooting an old campaign for a new group, and I thought I'd share the updated stat blocks for comments and suggestions.

Here is a Centaur War Priest, who is leading a war party into territory protected by the PCs.

Centaur War Priest..

Berselius wrote:
Have it just muscle its way in.
That's hardly fitting for an end game boss to an adventure path.

See the comment was how he would. "fit in". . . The joke is he'd fit in by. . . Ah, never mind.

Back to patiently waiting for updated cover art.

Berselius wrote:
True enough but it would have to fit into the over all adventure path somehow.

Have it just muscle its way in.

I must be interested. Or at least it feels like I'm checking for updated art, daily.

I’d love to know how this turns out if you don’t mind posting how the game goes. I’m in the process of re-booting a campaign that went on hold at 19th level, and may see what I can plan for a few mythic tiers. At the moment, I’m leaning toward having PC levels = Mythic Tiers for estimating CR.
Regarding Legacy of Fire, I’ve run that one, and even without mythic, I had some problems you may want to be aware of.

Legacy of Fire spoilers:
Once the PCs have access to several wishes and powerful magic, some of the existing encounters aren’t much of a threat. For example, by the time they entered the final dungeon, the whole group was flying and invisible all the time. In that entire dungeon, there are only two enemies who have the ability to see invis; the Erinyes, and the BBEG.
I went off script a bit by having BBEG move his harem into the final room with him as he was watching the PCs mow over his minions. I also ignored the suggested tactics. So the PCs entered the final room to find, several Erinyes archers spaced about the large room, and BBEG who was itching to get in full attacks. It was an epic arial fight over the lava flow, but some poor tactics led to a TPK.

I’d love to play or DM a Paladin in this scenario.

You do need to make clear what will make the Paladin fall. For example, I wouldn’t rule that any of the actions so far would warrant a fall in one of my games. As long as he is pursuing a conversion or redemption of the antipaladin, this plotline can be a lot of fun.

I also don’t agree with screwing over the paladin either. For my tastes, I’d pursue scenarios where the paladin has to thwart her plans, and may even have to fight her, but he’s fighting non-lethal, and she’s outright trying to kill him.

IF he is able to turn her to the path of righteousness, the conflicts do not end either. Her former allies may not take such an act kindly, or may want to stop her from revealing more secrets. They may send high level assassins to wipe out such an embarrassment.

The BBEG may also have loved ones or items that are important to the anti-paladin to ensure her loyalty. If she were to betray him, a loved one may be targeted for death as well. So before she can leave her current organization, the paladin would need to secure the safety of such loved ones.

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Wow. Looks like Conan of Golarion!

Ashiel wrote:
Something that irritates the snot out of me is this idea that a dragon's horde is just it's triple standard treasure. Such does not a horde make. It's triple treasure is probably just what it has on it at most times, because a dragon's "horde" should definitely be its own adventure and significantly more than than simply equivalent to killing three common enemies or 1.5 NPC-classed enemies.

I think I'm with you, but just to be sure.. . In other words, what I like to do when planning treasure (ie hoard), i'll factor in WBL for say the entire 2 to 4 levels of an adventure I'm planning. I'll then spread around the treasure accordingly, so the hyena pack encountered outside the blue dragons lair may have been an equivalent challenge, but all the coins are sitting inside the dragons cave. I'm simplifying, but is that the gist?

LazarX wrote:
Renegadeshepherd wrote:

A dragon has managed to survive for as long as it has because it did whatever it had to and was smart enough to know what to do. Do you think that centuries of bigger more powerful dragons tryin to kill you hasn't molded every dragon into a perfect survivalist? If it doesn't use armor it's going to be doing SOMETHING to stay alive. Armor is just one such possibility.

Excpet that generally it doesn't happen. Dragons don't go out hunting other dragons. At most they may have a territory dispute until the weaker one leaves. Actually the reverse happens, Dragons are so apex, they become complacent. And spending all those centuries sleeping under your hoard isn't exactly battle practise.

I understand this, but I've never really liked this line of reasoning. I've heard that applied to demons/devils/etc. Creatures that have been around for time untold should have some decent tactics when dealing with shorter lived races. Yes, demons probably spend most of their time fantasizing about murder etc, but even if they aren't 20th level warriors, they've had more time to figure out adequate tactics to deal with mere mortals.

I mean yes, it makes sense that the occasional villain/BBEG is so bad ass that he becomes complacent / let's his guard down / becomes soft/ leaves the good guy hanging over the pit of crocodiles without makes sure he's dead / leaves an obvious gap for a pilot to destroy the deathstar, but . . . I guess I feel lazy using that as a DM. They should at least have a well planned security system if they aren't going to keep up their skills.

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