Also, some folks constantly need to remind themselves that they see The Real Truth while everybody else is living in the Paizo-induced Matrix.
I guess that the resulting feeling of being smarter than all those Ciretoses and Shallowsoulsl is something that makes their life happier.
No. They're completely useless apart from the "oooh ahhh he/she is thaaat powerful ohmigosh ohmigosh that's gonna be so cool if I could get them to fight Batman and Chuck Norris and maybe also Optimus Prime" reactions which I left behind a good dozen years ago.
I wonder what Paizo staff members think when they read threads like this.
"I really don't envy the Web Team folks who get to wrangle with all those argumentative troublemakers on the forum" is likely the most common thought.
Ashiel: casters were nerfed!
Beckett/DA: no, only clerics were nerfed!
AvH: no, only druids were nerfed!
Shallowsoul: casters were always worse than martials anyway!
Anbody from The Den: PATHFAILURE = CASTER EDITION!
Ciretose: Since it's all Schroedinger, we will never know if those are nerfs or buffs.
3.5 Gitarist: Casters are fine, as long as you require the player to learn spells/pray/meditate 8h per day in real time, like we do. Honestly, does anybody even play this game in some other way?
Kirth Gersen: My 235 pg PDF fixes everything.
Piccolo: Casters are fine, after all they need to rest 8h after casting each spell. What, that's not how it works? Really? Oh, must have been some obscure errata I missed.
Kthulhu: If you only reverted to 0E, all your problems would be gone. But no, you persist, mindless slaves of Monte Cook...
Gorbacz: American fascists! Errr ... wrong thread!
Pathfinder samurai are based more on historical tropes (such as the samurai art of yabusame and characters such as Seven Spears of Victory) and less on the popcultural/anime portrayal of barely-armored swordmasters, which had little in common with the historical developments up until late Tokugawa. Until XVI century, samurai were almost exclusively fighting from horseback, and infantry was considered a "lesser" form of warfare. The most famous stories of samurai battles are stories of cavalry charges and mounted warfare.
I'd read the Core Rulebook and Bestiary first. Rogues being able to sneak attack undead is one of major Pathfinder changes, and if you didn't know of it until this thread, there might be more surprises there for you, and you'd rather catch them before the game, not during.
That's me, speaking from my worthless 22 years of experience as a GM ;)
Considering that some of the most prominent groups in Kaer Maga are golem crafting casters, bloatmages and shady criminal organizations of all sorts, I believe a Kobold might find lots of opportunities where brains > brawn. It's not a "brutal pit fighter" city, it's a "weird outcast" city.
Say, a Kobold who works for troll augurs to ensure that they regenerate properly after each "vision", or as a "maintenance manager" for one of unead brothels.
Kirth Gersen wrote:
Oh, I feel you. There are dozens of publisher-side things I'd love to be done my way (say, a Numeria AP right now instead of having good guys vs. demons, or maybe a bigger book on Cheliax, or perhaps NPC Codex 2 instead of Bestiary 4, yadda yadda). But overall, I've gotten so much bang for my bucks here that I can live with some things that don't float my boat. Especially if I can always mine fan-based/3PP material for solutions. And as long as I can get my players' character concepts realized, I care little if they're running a Cleric/Rogue, some 3.5 PrC, or Inquisitors. Whatever you need to get the job done. If I'm fixing my car I don't care if I'm using Producer's Official Replacement kit or WD40 and duct tape as long as it drives.
Tangentially: is there any 3PP multiclassing alternative out there?
Andrew R wrote:
Ah, I see what your actual issue is. Your problem is that people enjoy debating sexuality. Well, sorry, no way you're going to thought police people around here, folks like talking about it, folks will talk about it. But that's nothing that Paizo is responsible for, unless your argument is "Paizo should exclude sexuality because including it makes people discuss it and I don't like seeing it discussed".
Good luck with that. Closing your eyes does not make things go away.
Andrew R wrote:
So, variety in religion is fine, variety in sexual orientation is bad?
Hey Andrew R, why aren't you offended by the fact that so many iconics are religious? I mean, by your logic one religious person among iconics is enough to cover all those christianislamjewsihwhatever out there, why shove religion down our throats? :)
Also, by the way.
Obese heroes? Bloatmages.
Furry fans? Lini has this covered on the "wildshapes into a big cat to snuggle her best friend big cat" level.
People with physical disabilities? Alahazra, the iconic Oracle, is blind.
Maybe because being obese or dressing in furry suits isn't a crime or target for hatred or discrimination round the world while race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation and religiob most certainly are?
The forums are populated by a vocal minority of hyper-charged, passionate, obnoxius, knowledgeable and turbo-argumentative people who love to argue, such as myself. Most of the problems discussed here is pure theory brought up so that we can fight among ourselves. I wouldn't pay us much attention.
Look at it this way: in the very first Pathfinder adventure, Paizo wrote a LGBT paladin.
Not only was that against the "no icky sexual orientation stuff" unwritten policy of most D&D material, it also was a potential grenade into a gas tank full of "Paladins = Christianity therefore Paladins can't be homosexual as it's against their code" people.
Ever since, they printed dozens of LGBT iconics/NPCs/heroes/villains.
And if really the majority of gamers were against having this stuff in gaming material, Paizo wouldn't be the industry leader. It's capitalism. People vote with their money. If something is on the top, then it means that majority of the market embraces or doesn't give a flip.
Wohooo touchy touchy. Well, if you're calling the description of their LGBT attributes as "PC BS" that kind of constitutes your "coming out" as to what you really are despite all these refined words you're using.
Except for Cavalier (which isn't poor design, but just a bit ... meh) all the APG classes are neat and fill much needed niches (divine skill monkey? arcane-divine caster that doesn't require the pains of Mystic Theurge? Alchemist trope? Spontaneous divine caster? Pokemon trainer?).
Broken Arrow wrote:
Maybe because there's more to the world than just American rednecks and their narrow-minded view on things, perhaps.
I blame Cosmo for the fact that insofar I wasn't able to complain that any package from Paizo arrived at my place damaged or mispacked*. In fact, that one time he was cool enough to confuse me with some guy in Greece and send me his order of a Pound'o'Dice.
* one shipment was delayed so badly that Cosmo sent me a replacement. The original one eventually arrived 6 months later, with strange burn marks and a faint whiff of brimstone.
My second thesis: armchair theorycrafters go all this length just so that at the end of the day they can say "Well, I'm one of the few who can see the truth. All those unwashed masses, they are blind. But I have pierced the veil and learned the ways. I know what balance is. Now, why am I not working as a game designer? Ah, because I'm TOO GOOD AT IT."
That's why 4E is now where it is (on the way out). It tried to change the paradigm and failed at oh so many levels. Turns out, folks don't want absolute balance. They mostly don't care for it. I strongly believe (that's my opinion, not statement of a fact, before somebody flips out) that 90% of D&D/PF player base doesn't give a flip about the things we're nerdraging here about. If an average D&D customer would mind the difference between axes and swords as much as we do, the game would die in a year and we wouldn't even be having this convo, because D&D would be a faint memory of past.
Yes, this makes us special snowflakes, I guess that's a consolation of sorts.
Ansel Krulwich wrote:
I really don't get this whole obsession D&D players have with abnormally tall citizens of Poland. Is this some Gary Gygax thing? Did some huge fellow called Zbigniew save Gary's life in a back alley of Chicago, and Gary felt obliged to immortalize that? I'll never cease to wonder.
Personally, I blame anime. Folks watch wuxia over-the-top fighting, come back to D&D and are amazed that Monks can't teleport across universes and throw punches that conjure meteors of death from 999th Hell or whatever. They want to go Ninja Scroll or Tekken and ooops, the system doesn't support that right out of the box.
I think that expectation of anime fans is one of the major drives of "D&D martials suck" movement. Of course, WotC didn't really help with throwing them a bone with ToB:Bo9s...
The problem with aeons is that they don't really have any solid motivation behind them. Inevitables are the Judge Dredd "we are here because ORDER and LAW are ultimate" shtick, easy enough, legal positivism taken to the exxxtreme, Bentham, Austin and Hart rejoice. But aeons? What floats their boats? OK, they're here to ensure that there's equal amount of cherry coke and vanilla coke in the multiverse but WHY? To what end?
I won't even go into how fiddly figuring out the Feint mid-combat is (sooo...the opponent is ... trained in Sense Motive or ... lemme check, 5 minutes break). The moment somebody goes "hey do I have -8 to feint against humanoid creatures that aren't of the Humanoid type? What about animal companions that got an Int boost? Badgers with +Int headbands?" we can just call it a day and go home.
Intimidate: I'm intimidating the lich / no you can't, it's undead, mind-affecting effects don't apply / yes I can nowhere in rules it says intimidate is mind-affecting / dude, some common sense / no, you common sense dude / imagine I'm feinting Xyxon, it's logical that should work / dude, did you ever tried pulling a wedgie over a lich's head? / no, did you?
Acrobatics: If those fiddly rules do tell me what are the penalties for fighting on a 4 inch wide ledge, why the hell aren't they giving me mechanics for jumping up, grabbing a chandelier and swinging around Errol Flynn style? D&D PLEASE.
Perception/Invisibility: "Stealth bonus from invisibility against hearing-based Perception checks - applies or not?", a PhD thesis.