Why not play a magus?
You're sturdier than a mage at low-levels and you get some of the best offensive spells in the game at high levels.
Yes, you're sacrificing batman's supreme versatility for better martial abilities, but overall you end up getting the best of both worlds, especially when you get spell recall and can spend arcane points on your pony-trick, allowing you to prepare a better variety of spells.
I'm humbled every time my work is mentioned in this thread.
Some people want answers. Other people like to dream. You are ultimately in charge of your Golarion's canon.
Personally, I'll probably end up picking up this product based on the quality of its crunch. I prefer to run my homebrew setting so I can throw all of those delicious occultist options I create at my players before they're released. ;-)
Keep up the good work, Jason, Stephen, and Sean!
I think Jeremy mentioned that Mythic Psionics is something is on their radar.
That said, your best bet currently is to grab the Archmage Path. As long as your GM is using the Magic/Psionics transparency rules, that Path will function perfectly for you. The only thing that you will truly be missing is the ability to select Mythic versions of various psionic powers.
What's the final revelation for the Spirit World Mystery?
... crap. That's a pretty darn big catch.
For now, use the Final Revelation from Paizo's Occult mystery, which I've reproduced below:
Upon reaching 20th level, you become one with the spirits. You become immune to death effects, exhaustion, fatigue, nausea effects, negative levels, and sickened effects. You can cast astral projection and true seeing once per day as spell-like abilities without requiring material components. Should you die, you rise again 2d4 days later as a ghost.
This error will be corrected before we print the book. We have a nice little block of space there too, so the real trick will be getting it in there without having to change too much else around on the Oracle page. Right now, I'm thinking of something like this:
Your essence becomes forever intertwined with the spirit realms. You are immune to charm and compulsion effects, death effects, negative levels, and possession (such as magic jar). Once per day as a full-round action, you can deal 4 points of Wisdom drain to yourself in order to add any one spell from the Cleric spell list to your list of spells known. You retain access to this spell until the next time you regain your spell slots.
The real question is whether or not that'll fit in the space we have!
Cosmo blames Bulmahn though. I think Cosmo needs his own "Blame *Jason Bulmahn* for ALL of Cosmo's problems here" thread.
Cosmo has his own thread to do that in. Its called the Advanced Class Guide playtest forum. Half of the negative people in that forum are actually Cosmo's aliases. Its why we haven't seen him here much since the Playtest started; it presented, "an opportunity that he could not refuse."
Heck, I could be one of Cosmo's aliases. You wouldn't know because if you clicked my name to find out, all you'd find there is a swarm of dire honey badgers. Cosmo doesn't take internet security lightly.
I've noticed that a lot of "[X] Request" threads have started to crop up in the Playtest, and because asking for new archetypes and/or hybrid class combinations isn't what the Playtest is about, I've decided to start this wishlist thread in hopes that it'll A) help foster discussion on what content people would like to see in the Advanced Class Guide and B) keep that discussion out of the Playtest and into a singular, unified thread.
Here are some quick, common-sense ground rules:
With that out of the way, let's hear your wish lists and show Jason, Sean, and Stephen that the Paizo Community can be as productive at formulating new ideas for Player Crunch as we are at formulating new ideas for Bestiaries!
Some playtesting notes:
Campaign: Skulls and Shackles
Feats: Weapon Finesse
— Predictions correct; build options are incredibly limited. Wanted to do a pirate-style swashbuckler; not possible because the cutlass is not a light weapon.
— Thankfully only had about one encounter per day on the ship; one use of Parry / Riptose left me completely empty for panache points. Felt lame.
— Interestingly enough, Darring-Do refers to Signature Deed. Guess Stephen REALLY wants that table in there.
— GM is a gunslinger player. Made me stop calling the class feature 'panache' after realizing that it was the same as grit. Thought the name change was arbitrary and wanted to "call it like it is."
Although the tagline, "Dex-based fighter" is a broad concept worthy of a base class, the Swashbuckler in practice is incredibly limited and probably would only ever get played in conjunction with the rapier or scimitar (if your GM allows Dervish Dance). I suggest the following changes:
These changes will expand the number of swashbuckler builds that people will try without necessarily making Dervish Dance obsolete; the big advantage of taking Dervish Dance would be getting Dex to damage 3 levels earlier, allowing you more multiclass freedom if you desired it. It would also allow more interesting character builds that were previous impossible to surface, like the Dexterous Rhonin. (Kenshin's portrayal in Rhonin Kenshin or Jack in Samurai Jack both come to mind.) I could also see the class taking the OotS Elan route and adding Charisma to damage instead of Dexterity, if the developers feel that too much is being stacked onto Dexterity. This does come with its own dangers, however, as you can currently make Charisma do a LOT for a character. 5 Levels of Swashbuckler, 2 of Paladin, and 1 of Oracle would allow you to add Charisma on damage rolls, saving throw, AC, and CMD. Just a musing.
At later levels, Signature Deed on Precise Strike will probably be mandatory for the optimizers. The way precise strike is worded would probably break the swashbuckler's damage, though I've made no builds testing this yet. Many gunslinger deeds have wordage that forbids Signature Deed from applying to them; this seems like a situation where the same restriction would be justifiable.
Several key swashbucklers characters are not possible with this build, namely the sword-and-dagger build as well as the sword-and-pistol build. Hopefully archetypes (along with one for two-weapon fighting with katanas / curved elven blades) will fix this.
Let me preface with the following: I love the core spirit of this class. The combination of Charisma and Dexterity is just what I was hoping for out of the swashbuckler, and the classes mechanics did not disappoint me. There are several glaring flaws with the swashbuckler, however, that I feel need addressing.
#1 — With the notable exception of the Bravery class feature, the swashbuckler contains no aspects of the fighter core class. In fact, it is far more accurate to say that the swashbuckler is to the duelist what the magus is to the eldritch knight; two options built upon a similar idea with very different mechanical approaches. This is not a poor design choice. However, the classification of the swashbuckler as a hybrid class is not appropriate at all. At its core, the swashbuckler is an alternate class of the gunslinger; nothing more, nothing less. Most of the swashbuckler class reads as a copy/paste version of the gunslinger with the exception that the class's abilities apply to a very specific subsection of melee weapons instead of firearms. It makes a lot of sense that this would happen, as the gunslinger itself was originally designed as a fighter alternate class. From a linguistic standpoint, swashbuckler and gunslinger have the same meaning, except that they hail from different time periods. In this respect, swashbucklers have the same relationship to gunslingers that samurai have to cavaliers or antipaladins to paladins, except the connection is based on time period rather than region or morality. A book called the Advanced Class Guide is allowed to have different types of classes, and maybe this is a good place for the developers to finally nail down what the difference between an alternate class, a base class, and an archetype is.
#2 — The class's primary mechanic, panache, leaves a sour taste in a veteran's player's mouth because it is literally an old class feature painted new. There is absolutely no reason that the gunslinger's grit should have been relabeled as panache, and in the long run this change causes more problems then it solves. For one, there is a good chance that an Extra Panache feat needs to be written. Magic items that interact with grit (such as a ring of grit mastery) do not function for the Swashbuckler and instead new versions of those magic items need to be developed. Finally, this is an opportunity to expand a seldom expanded feat category; Grit Feats. The idea of having a swashbuckler with the No Name grit feat is awesome, as is a Swashbuckler with the Signature Deed. Finally, as written changing the mechanic from grit to panache causes more trouble then it is worth. Several character types can easily grab a grit pool, namely the Holy Gun paladin. Whereas these pools might have stacked, allowing for interesting interactions, instead I now have two separate pools of points that mechanically function in the same manner.
#3 — As written, the Swashbuckler's biggest weakness is that its combat style is too rigid. Historically speaking, the term swashbuckler was (and still is) synonymous with 'pirate,' yet I can't build a swashbuckler who uses a cutlass because its not a light or one-handed piercing weapon. Instead of having a ridiculously specific version of Weapon Finesse, the Swashbuckler should be the first-stop for all melee Dexterity-focused characters; its abilities should function with any light or one-handed melee weapon so long as the swashbuckler is not wielding a weapon in his off-hand. Although the class would be called the swashbuckler, this simple change would allow for hundreds of different character concepts to emerge, including the Dexterous Rhonin with a katana, the Dexterous Pirate with a cutlass, or even a class well-suited to an Aldori Swordlord, because as written it isn't clear whether this highly appropriate class would even function with an Aldori Longsword.
*Trying to quickly type this out before work, while this is fresh in my head. Sorry for grammar/spelling errors.*
Most people are starting to miss the point of the thread and commenting on the nature of the classes themselves. I am going to go right to the source: the hybrid mechanic is lackluster and redundant. Ironically enough, the Magus is still the King of Hybrid classes, as it manages to feel more like an even mix of its component classes than any of the options presented here, and yet its a base class!
The Hybrid Mechanic is lazy. They restrict build creativity, seldom for any good reason. They stomp on the face of interesting builds and flavorful characters seemingly to prevent rules bloat, when none of these classes really needs this restriction. A multiclass bloodrager / sorcerer makes perfect sense if the character is required to pick the same bloodline between both classes. Same with a multiclass shaman / oracle. Or a swashbuckler / fighter.
Most of the Hybrid Classes presented in the document serve better as either alternate classes or as base classes. The shaman may use witch hexes, but the overall execution of the class is so outstandingly different that it deserves to be its own, independent class. On the other hand, the spirit of the fighter class is nowhere to be found in the swasbuckler; the entire class mirrors the Gunslinger, except all of its abilities are focused around melee weaponry instead of guns. More likely then not, this is due to the gunslinger originally being designed as an alternate class itself, but the swashbuckler makes more sense as an alternate class both from a mechanical standpoint as well as a linguistic standpoint; the word "swashbuckler" was actually phased out for the term "gunslinger" when referring to the wild west, so calling for a "swasbuckler with guns" is redundant. That class exists, and its called the gunslinger.
I can imagine that the idea for a Hybrid mechanic is enticing to the developers because it rules out two entire classes and a slew of archetypes that could potentially create abusive builds. Let's take the Bloodrager for example. Barring the Barbarian is pointless, because as of the time of this writing, there are two official, Paizo-produced ways for me to grab Rage and Rage Powers without taking a single level of Barbarian OR missing out on anything major. I can grab levels of Fighter (Viking) or levels of Ranger (Wild Stalker), and now all of the questions that hybridization tried to avoid are made manifest. Do my viking level and bloodrager levels stack or do I have separate pools of rage? Can I take a few levels in all three classes and essentially use Triple my Con along with a smattering of extra rounds per day when I rage? Do my Rage Powers apply when I'm bloodraging? Do my bloodline powers apply when I'm raging? Can I pull rounds of rage from one source into another to prevent myself from fatiguing? If I take Extra Rage, where do those rounds go?
By changing names around and not allowing similar abilities from multiple classes to stack (i.e. grit to panache or bloodrage to rage), you actually cause more balance problems and open up more cans of worms than you would have if you simply allowed everything to stack and explained how that stacking works.
On the flip side, some of the classes listed in the Advanced Class Guide DO share mechanics and its not clear how they interact with pre-existing items and feats. For example, does a robe of arcane heritage boost my Bloodrager bloodline? I would guess so, because even though they're different mechanics, they're both called bloodlines. Can my shaman take Extra Hex? The intent seems to drastically limit the number of hexes that the shaman gains access to, but because they have the same name, I don't know. Can the bloodrager with a draconic bloodline take the Dragon Discipline prestige class? The list goes on and on.
Finally, for someone who likes multiclassing and prestige classing, this entire concept feels like the designers are trying to be helicopter parents. "Oh, sweetie, why would you ever want to bother with multiclassing? Its so icky and gross and causes so many balance issues! Here, have a nice 20-level hybrid class itself; its all of the fun of multiclassing with none of the risks because Momma make it especially for you. With love."
You are going to have players who want structure in their classes, but you're also going to have people who want the ability to tinker and build their own unique character. You have your people who want Legos, toy swords, and nerf blasters and you have your people who prefer a set of blocks and a backyard filled with twigs. Hybrid classes take away fun from the latter without offering any real benefits to the former.
You might even call it a flurry of (verbal) blows.
Its finally here!
Vic Wertz wrote:
And somewhere, a pair of sunglasses just slid down onto Vic's face.
Well, the kitsune was just reprinted in Bestiary 4, so that artwork will probably end up there eventually.
Personally, I buy Reaper Miniatures and convert / sculpt all of my own kitsune miniatures. I think I've made four kitsune now, maybe five. I got started using their Werefox model as a base, then learned to sculpt my own tails and eventually my own heads. But yeah, probably doesn't help you much, huh? ^_^"
Also things like demon lords, empyreal lords, etc. should get there own book and not waste space in a hardcover bestiary. Though I liked the Kaiju and Old Ones, so I don't mind them beside there isn't nearly as many different ones of these guys.
While awesome, the Demigods confuse me. Why are they in a Core Rulebook line product? Are they considered Open Source now, or are they closed because they are highly interwoven into Golarion Lore (at least two of the Empyreal Lords are specifically the properties of the Paizo as they appeared in Chronicles of the Righteous.) If anything, the Demigods feel like something that should be campaign specific and not printed in a Bestiary, so I agree with that one.
If they were going to stat up Thor or Odin or Zeus as Empyreal Lords or whatever, I wouldn't be complaining. But Paizo property? Feels wield.
(Yes. I'm aware that Dagon and Pazuzu are open sourced. No it doesn't affect my point in the slightest.)
I'm pretty tired of Daemons, Devils, and Demons, personally. I'm all in for Camp Mikaze's Peaceful Protest for Angels, Agathions, Azata, and Archons. I want to see the good guys, and thanks to Bestiary 4 there are more than enough templates that people can take those Good outsiders and transform them into Nightmare creatures, Mummified creatures, and even Broken Souls. That said, I was happy to see new kytons in Bestiary 4 and wouldn't mind new Divs.
I'm basically done with giants as well. I thought the Cliff giant was neat, but since Giants are basically nothing but stereotypes of real-world cultures, I don't find them interesting.
I'm a little on the fence with psychopomps. I don't think they're as interesting as everyone else, apparently. I get that the developers weren't crazy about the Aeons because they made Players feel like the bad guys, but Psychopomps come across as Neutral Angels of another name. They're STILL things that I'm not likely to throw at my players to fight unless they're evil. Since Aeons are proactive in trying to seek out and destroy threats to the multiverse, at least they had a perfectly good reason for fighting my PCs.
That's about it, really. Those are the only creatures that I've seen printed in every Bestiaty (including Bestiary 4) and I'm ready to give a quiet vacation to.
Regardless of what Golarion canon says, the Cosmic Balance is real, and the (not-so) recent creation of the >>Blame *Cosmo* for ALL Your Problems Here<< thread has upset the Cosmic Balance of the Paizo Forums. The Dark Lord Cosmo thrives on negativity and as his forum shows us, he gets stronger with every passing day.
So, its time to change that. Here's a new, positive thread for you to be thankful for. But who should champion this Renaissance of positive energy? I nominate Sara Marie, Paizo's very own Dire Carebear Manager. Trained by Cosmo as a CSR, she is the Luke to Cosmo's Vader. The Light against the tide of Cosmo's Darkness. Only Sara Marie can save you, so PRAISE her! PRAISE HER LIKE THERE IS NO TOMORROW! (Because if you don't, there won't be.)
Counterpoint: The heart of the devil mindset is to get mortals to make pacts with them. The devils want you to be damned to Hell, after all. So wouldn't a devil WANT you to think that you could easily escape the contract that damns you? Give you a little bit of hope, make the deal seem all the more tantalizing?
Let's say you're that Level 1 wizard who makes a pact with a contract devil for the devilbound template. You go conquer some villages, build a kingdom, and lo and behold you're Level 20. Maybe you've even got a few Mythic tiers in your court. So you go and use planar ally to call out your contract devil and you kill him, destroying his copy of your contract. Awesome. You even use locate object to find the last one.
Its in Stygia. An entire layer of Hell dedicated to cataloging the sins of mortals and the temptations that damned them. The plane itself is so unfathomably large that some might call it infinite. And somewhere in that plane is your contract, hidden behind the legions of devils who dwell there. And if that wasn't a good enough reason as to how undoing the template could (and rightfully should) be difficult, its very likely that the devils have been watching you grow in strength. Of course they'd keep tabs on their business partners. And if devils know one thing, its mortals. They know that with strength comes boldness, so where is that contract most likely going to be? In the personal clutches of Greyon himself. Because he wants nothing more than for you to die trying to get to him so that you're soul can become transformed into a new lemure servant; Hell's endless archives of sin and heresy need plenty of dusting, after all.
I blame Cosmo for having to navigate around two accidents and a construction zone just to get my car smogged.
What the heck does the word 'smogged' mean?
Really? Someone made a UNIQUE WORD just to define 'taking your car to an emissions test that you know you'll pass'? Really? What a waste of the English language, I blame Cosmo for this!
Creighton Broadhurst wrote:
You heard it folks! If a Raging Swan product should be released with my name on it (say, in December), make sure you buy a copy so Creighton has motivation to try and break me again! ;-)
Its cool, Cosmo. Jason will only ever get blamed for problems in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game while you will get blamed for absolutely everything else.
I absolutely love Ultimate Campaign, especially the Downtime Rules. As a result, Chapter 2 gets a lot of use around my table, but there's one serious flaw with the Chapter. On page 110, right in the middle of the most often used section of the Chapter, is the most horrendous piece of artwork I have ever seen. It is this massive, overweight woman with teeth the size of silver pieces. Every time I see this piece of artwork, I groan a little. This is clearly not a piece where the artist 'messed up' and created a horrendous piece. This level of bad can only be demanded, most likely ordered and placed into the book by Cosmo when no one was looking.
You're a cruel mistress, Cosmo.
What is the Formian artwork like? Specifically, do they have humanoid-looking heads, or ant-looking heads?
They look like Ant Centaurs. Think of how the bee people from Bestiary 3 look; its a very similar design to that.
Is there a limit on time travel for time dragons (i.e. could they travel to the beginning of time or the end of time)?
Yes and no. A great wyrm Time Dragon can travel to any point in time it wishes (and can bring along a number creatures up to its Charisma modifier), but it can only use this ability three times during its lifetime.
What kind of social (living in groups) humanoids/monstrous humanoids are there? (i.e., human, orc, serpentfolk, grippli, drow, derro....)
Besides the five reprinted humanoid races? (Changeling, Kitsune, Nagaji, Samsaran, Wayang)
Um, Wyrwoods and Trox from the Advanced Race Guide got reprinted (their new art looks MUCH better for both creatures, in my opinion) and every monster from Distant Worlds is reprinted in Bestiary 4 as well (the art for the four-armed race from the Red Planet also looks a lot better, in my opinion).
There are a couple others. There's a few new types of giants as well as the formians, but I'm afraid you're not going to get a great answer from me for this one because it is an EXTREMELY vague question.
He has frightful presence.
Except its not frightful presence because if you fail your DC 40 Will save, you instantly die.
If you are immune to fear effects, the aura STAGGERS you for 5d6 rounds INSTEAD of killing you.
That many PCs.
These Colossal creatures inhabit the most desolate places of a world. When they are not slumbering, they roam the world, leaving destruction in their wake. A kaiju possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).
Its a bigger spoiler than what I'd normally do, but I figure you need these rules to run The Dark Comet from Mythic Realms, so I'll indulge whomever might be thinking of using her in an upcoming game.
And yes, The King is, in fact, Godzilla.
Oh ... oh gods ....
The drakiana .... Its basically an evil, baby-making aberration. It can impregnate creatures with its spawn (yes, even the gentlemen) and all impregnated creatures within 30 feet of a drakiana have their gestation increased to 2d4 rounds, even if your baby WASN'T a drakiana-spawn! What's worse, the rapid, forced pregnancy deals damage to you and breaks any armor that you happen to be wearing. (Unless it was a natural pregnancy, in which case it is merely hasted, the baby is mutated.)
I'm barely through the D's, and I can say that this book is FILLED with horror monsters. Everything from psychological horror to body horror is in this book. Its very refreshing considering that these monsters mess with characters' bodies in a way that is more quantifiable than, "You take 2d6 points of Constitution damage."
Edit: She's a named monster, CR 25 (MR10), so just shy of the power level of a Demon Lord. She's called "a mother of monsters," so I wonder if she's a reference to Grendel's mother. We need a fact-checker, stat!
For the Outer Dragons, the alien presence ability is NASTY. It functions as frightful presence, but instead of the fear effect, each outer dragon's alien presence has a unique effect. Here's a rundown:
Lunar Dragon: Target is affected as touch of idiocy (or feeblemind if the creature has 4 or less Hit Dice) for 5d6 rounds.
Solar Dragon: Target is blinded for 5d6 rounds (or permanently if it has 4 or less Hit Dice).
Time Dragon: Target is staggered for 5d6 rounds (or stunned if it has 4 or less Hit Dice).
Void Dragon: Target is sickened for 5d6 rounds (or nauseated if it has 4 or less Hit Dice).
Vortex Dragon: Target treats all other creatures as though they were under the effects of blur (or displacement if it has 4 or less Hit Dice).
The art for the dragons is okay; they mostly look weird and translucent. All of them are Neutral on the Good vs. Evil scale except for the Void Dragon, which is NE.
Demon Lords can use polymorph any object at will while they're on their Abyssal Realm. And if they use this ability on something native to their realm, the duration factor increases by 6 ....
images Dagon transforming pebbles into new demons to attack heroes
That's just ... AWESOME.
I wish I knew the CR of the elohim at least.
CR 23 (MR 6)
Also ... ew. After reading the Flesh Colossi's entry (and seeing its picture) I don't think I will EVER be clean again.
To all of you who thought that Colossi were just reskinned transformers ... no. No they are not.
As long as I get another great, new piece of kitsune artwork, I won't mind. I've liked all three of the pieces they've had so far, so here's hoping!
Also, I wasn't a fan of the nagaji artwork in the ARG, so here's hoping for a redemption. To the artist: just because a race doesn't HAVE anything to cover doesn't mean that you should give us nudes as racial artwork.
Fortunately, Remote Detect Thoughts has allowed me to scan the entire book directly from Liz Courts' brain.
You didn't hear? Liz just got her first Mythic Tier and she took the power that makes her immune to such tomfoolery and trick it with falsified images and information.
Sorry bro. :(
Then it looks like Odraude is taking to his new portfolio smashingly well!