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Nexian Galley

Globetrotter's page

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 342 posts. No reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist.


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That's probably a good suggestion.

I think in the future I will continue to use mythic with my monsters, but I doubt I will use it with NPC's. It's terrible, lol.


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Tangent, I figured this to be the best option as well, but sadly my players vetoed it.

We went through a long drawn out conversation on what to do about mythic. One recommendation was to remove any power that gave action economy, I didn't like that since I would have to police everything and I didn't want my work load to increase.

Other option was to half mythic power points... Surges, shoot I can't remember off the top of my head. So instead of having 11 at this level they would have 5. Removing amazing initiative as well to speed things up would round out this house rule. I liked this one, or at least I thought it was on the right track, but my players didn't like the option.

I brought up hero points and they thought it was interesting, but skipped over it to continue the discussion.

In the end, they decided to remove all elements if mythic and play the game straight. I told them I will adjust the power levels down to compensate, which I find easier than trying to compensate for the power swings and I also do not have to rebuild everything.

Scorpion recommended me removing mythic from the creatures as well, but I'm undecided. I think he might be right in the long run, but the mythic creatures are built so poorly I don't think it will matter. Why does everyone have mythic toughness?

We meet this Saturday and I'll see how it goes.


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Mythic just got removed. They've had trouble all throughout the AP. Mythic got removed for us because it was making things too complicated. There was also the wild swings of power that made it hard to handle; either they went down fast or you did..

I do restrict items, so that helps a little. I also make sure there are consequences to actions. If they come in guns a blazing, everyone that could know will know and tactics change.

I have the enemies scry on the PC's if they have the ability to. Jarruunicka has the power of augury and divination, she used these powers to prepare for the PC's.

I spend a lot of time wondering what the villains would be doing and try to run them accordingly. Sometime I will rebuild if Paizo built them odd, but usually I play them out of the box.

If they have planar binding spells : Xanthir and powers to enhance said spells, I use them. I don't care if the AP doesn't say to. In this recent battle, I had a planar bound creature ready, but haven't pulled it out yet.

People retreat and regroup. They pass information and encounters get stronger because of knowledge. I don't meta game. If they change strategies I still have the NPC's use old knowledge, unless they have ways to know better.

I also use the environment a lot.

My players do pre-buff when they can, but I will have NPC's talk to them. I run a stop watch and keep track of the time and have buffs drop in real time, stop watch is paused during rounds of combat. Players know this and like the stress it builds.

I figure, if I was a player and people,we're attacking me, I would be aware (if I have the right knowledge skills) what are the common buffs and how long they last, especially if I was a 12th level caster. Delay combat by ten or twenty minutes with a locked door or a minion that likes to talk and presto... Debuffed PC's. Since we all agreed on this and I remind them throughout the dialog about their buffs, no one feels cheated.


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This baffles me to no end. I posted a number of posted in scorpions stat block thread and I'm having the exact opposite experience. My players are getting bested down left and right.

Now, we have just depowered the party and removed mythic after that Xanthir Vang encounter at the end of book 3, but even that battle was too tough; Xanthir easily got away and they killed Jerribeth only because she started acting stupid and panic when her betrayal of Xanthir realized.

I'm agreeing this is a failed AP. Mythic is broken.

I'm so confused at what I'm doing differently than everyone else. Granted, I think my players help out a lot because they make the dumbest tactical decisions and I exploit that, but still... We are an older group, so most of my players don't spend a lot of time analyzing or trying to game the system,so that helps too.

I use a lot of tactics and positioning, light effects, and story elements to make the scenes harder. My players are baffled that everyone finds this AP easy and say I play the creatures to their max... But I think I've just convinced them of that.

Things I'm wondering, how are your characters kicking over 1,000 damage a round... Or healing that much in a round. I'm pretty sure my players (me included) are not as smart as we think we are, lol. I fear having one of you guys at my table.

I would just had you a trophy, lol. You win :)


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I created an action economy tracker that my players really liked that helped keep their abilities in check. I would love to share that, but sadly, I have no idea how.

Care to teach a n00b?


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Well, they will be much weaker than their mythic counterparts, but they have accepted that. I will redesign the AP to allow them to still experience the story and combats of the appropriate calibre that stays in the spirit of what the AP is shooting for.

They probably will not fight demon lords, but they will still have a chance to close the worldwound portal and have fun doing it. I'll keep giving them the wealth the AP has in it, which will give then more power than a typical PC.

They really don't want to scrap the whole adventure, but they are tired of the complex action economies due to mythic. It will be simple and fun.


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Well, we finished the Ivory Sanctum, most of it. It was a disaster. I used the written stat blocks posted in the AP, except for Jerribeth and Xanthir.
They approached the door at the end of the valley (Q1) and destroyed the basilisks with a fireball. The other creatures ran for the hills. Thankfully, that alerted the entire complex of their arrival. Players fought the minotaurs through the illusionary wall. They had trouble with this because I forgot to ask for a will save to disbelieve. By round 4 someone asked, and it got easier: My fault. Wizard launched another fireball killing the two minotaurs they were fighting and two they didn’t even see. Players took some decent damage, but nothing too serious.
Jerribeth was waiting just outside of her hall and whispered the players to follow her, they hesitated. She told them to quick move to her room to discuss their plans before they entire complex is mobilized. They were very cautious here, which I normally wouldn’t blame them for if they hadn’t already dropped 2 fireballs and 4 rounds of loud combat.
I had Jerribeth telepathically tell the other members of the sanctum it was her, and to not be alerted. This gave the PC’s time to speak out their plans. Jerribeth wanted the PC’s to kill Xanthir and they agreed, but with the caveat of putting on the rings. They refused, a philosophically debate (in character, it was pretty good) went back and forth with Jerribeth until she gave up and just attacked. The monk almost went down and by the end of round one, it was obvious Jerribeth was too powerful. I quickly reverted her to the book stats and we fought for 2 more rounds. They players conceded she was more powerful and talked her down. They all put the rings on. They refused the wish.
Jerribeth lead the party to the room just outside of the guard room for Xanthir’s chamber. They plotted and made final deals with Jerribeth: she would hold back the Templars and kill the blackfire adepts (she was lying) and they would kill Xanthir. Once the players have a firm upper hand, or if she thinks helping will kill Xanthir quickly, she will help.
This is the situation that is much bleaker than appears. They PC’s have only killed 4 minotaurs and are now deep in the Ivory Sanctum. To make matters worse, I placed a sitewide unhallow with a dimensional lock to block any teleportation except for CE creatures. I did this do to a side story, the PC’s went to the Ivory Sanctum once before and Xanthir now wanted to block the PC’s from entering again.
The PC’s fought the locusts (again, no mods) and one NPC – he was pretty weak and did virtually no damage to the party. When they entered Xanthir’s room, he had caste two summoning spells, 4 babau and 1 shadow demon. A cloudkill spell dropped as well making the battle tight.
A few more summons and the players were hurting. Xanthir just started teleporting around and eventually stopped summoning. After 4 hours and 23 rounds of combat, I had Xanthir put the fright into Jerribeth since he knows that she betrayed him and he left the Sanctum. In a mad dash she attacked the PC’s trying to finish them. They eventually put her down by me using subpar tactics.
The player playing the wizard felt the adjustments and accepted they should have died. Especially if I had Jerribeth order the Templars to fight and bring in the blackfire adepts.

Uniformly, everyone agreed they hated mythic and we have decided to completely remove it from the game. Now, I believe these loses have more to do with their choices than mythic, but it seems the added options and complexity is making my players less effective. We will continue to run the AP without mythic. I will adjust accordingly and we will get back to having fun.
This AP… as another thread stated, is a complete failure in my book and I am disappointed I will have to rewrite it to make it work. I am used to homebrew settings, so this will not be too hard, but I am not going to waste my time any longer trying to get this AP to work as written.


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We house ruled at our table that any EX ability can bypass, or any creature with the mythic subtype with constant see invisible or constant true seeing can bypass.

Yes, it limited the ability, but we found it too powerful and this balance helped is still run monsters and still feel pretty powerful.


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Slacker...


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These are great suggestions, and I thank you guys for taking my concerns seriously instead if the usual round of insults that frequent the boards.

I will play the next session as written and see how they do. I might modify Jerribeth since she is supposed to be an iconic baddie, but I think my players are prepared to strike a deal with her to end Xanthir.

We play this Saturdaya and I'll report the session. I will also try to find a good healing option until they find a cleric.


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I will run the Ivory Sanctum as written and see what happens.

I fear they will blow through everything, but maybe not.
I have already prepared altered stat blocks for all the creatures, so I can switch if I need to.

BTW, they are already 4th tier and nearing 5th.


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Given this, do you think I should be running the NPC out of the box?

I know I know my group best, but I'm struggling on this one. Especially when the NPC's are built so poorly. Honestly, I look at them and cringe.

For example, Xanthir has mostly crafting feats or how most of the creatures have toughness and mythic toughness instead of useful feats.


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Caius... you make me feel stupid, lol. Yes, they have no healing. The warpriest can heal a little bit, and the alchemist has a little healing, but he is dead now and the player has replaced him with a barbarian: no healing except mythic recuperation.

They are mostly below wealth, but that is because I had rebuilt Zanedra and she took out the entire party with her Eidolon. I didn't level her, just rebuilt and changed her spells.

This battle went pretty poorly as well. At the time they were using a lot of invisibility, and with mythic undetectable, by RAW they would be impossible to find. We house ruled that EX methods could bypass it (blindsense, blindsight, tremor sense and perception checks, but still has total concealment if it applies).

Since they stood in the room pre-buffing before the fight with her, she started buffing her eidolon as well. They made their perception checks and continued to buff after knowing she was also casting buff spells. Now, to their benefit, they had no idea it was a summoner, but 4 (only four players at this time) against one, it shouldn't have mattered.

Round one, they opened the door under the status and the creature full attacked the flat-footed monk/ninja (no uncanny dodge) and dropped him. This took the party by surprise.

Round two, the fully buffed eidolon with lifesense (evolution surge to give undead and lifesense) pounced the wizard... down.

The next rounds didn't really matter. Everyone dropped after that and to salvage the game, the PC's were captured and tortured. All gear was lost and they have to salvage what they have now.

The last series of sessions had them at lower wealth and this made the encounters tougher, but they still could hit with good damage.

The biggest problem they have is staying up in fights. They are very paranoid on fights, specially failing saving throws. The battle with the woundwym got nasty as the entire party failed the entropic breath weapon and fought each other... the woundwyrm was mostly a secondary player as they went after each other with gusto. They are truly great Role Players.

Two characters died in this battle (we did a side mission to hell to get them back, only to have the rogue alchemist die again the next session). Dying seems to happen a lot.

We recently had a discussion to house rule out most of the hero point options. I didn't like the idea of being able to add +8 to a saving throw and then do a surge on top of that. This could add up to a +16 to a save. Not to mention is slowed down the table watching them contemplate if they want to do it or not.. and I have to wait.. and wait. I am sure you guys know what I am talking about when a 3 round battle takes 90 minutes because of all the hem's and ha's.

So the issues they have is:

  • Not enough gear
  • Saving throw failures tend to cost the life of a player (it doesn't, but they only remember the times it happens)
  • battles are too deadly

They are not complaining. They really are enjoying themselves, but they cannot understand my concerns that the AP is going to get too easy and they are going to get too powerful. We have also done some of the typical things, made mythic power attack like mythic deadly aim, things like that.


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My players admitted after the fact this was probably the worst battle plan they have ever had, but it seems there is always something that puts them in peril.

We have done a lot to limit things. Turns have to be under three minutes, next week I'm reducing that to two. Taking when it's not your turn takes an immediate action if it's more than two sentences (players police themselves). We also made a pretty cool action economy tracker to make sure all the swift and immediate actions were not being abused.

Currently, they thing the game is too hard, but they know me to be a tough GM. I tend to play the creatures to what I think their intelligence to be. They take down casters if they are smart, just charge in if dumb. Retreats and darkness is used a lot as well as buffs and positioning. I make sure I know the enemies well to play them hard.

My players say I play the enemies very well and that people on the boards must not be: this is total horse crap. I've read what you guys do and it is amazing. I must admit my players are good theory crafters but it all falls apart in action.

With who is at my table, do you think I will have the same issues?


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Yes, that would help. Sorry, I was typing all that on my phone during my kid's swimming lesson. Doesn't look like much, but when you have big thumbs and a small iphone.. a little is a lot.

We have 5 players all 11th level 4th tier:

Admixture wizard/Archmage focusing on fireballs (he does a lot of damage since she can switch it to any element - with selective and maximize metamagic, he clears areas - rods and feats). She will drop fireballs in the 120-150 range when he can. That is tough.

Diviner 1/Poison masterRogue 4/vivisectionist Alch 6/trickster - this build seems pretty wild but he was surprisingly effective using an elven curve blade and a lot of sneak attack damage. buff spells and mutagens get him to be very strong.

Ninja 3/Moms Monk 8/ Champion - he focuses on crane wing and snake style to get 5+ attacks per round. Pretty decent damage and really hard to hit

Synthesis summoner - I told him not to try and break the game, but he has more hit point than anyone, better pluses to hit and pretty much the best AC, as you would expect

Warpriest - he is a new player that will only be going one more session.

In the redoubt, the monk and the rogue/alchemist charged through the gates and ran all away round to the main area where I had Jaruunicka mocking Arueshalae. The monk was a lot faster with mythic haste and impossible speed and alerted the entire complex. I had the Bebilith just take an AoO and the Drekari's to one AoO instead of having them make the confusion saving throw. The monk took a little damage and run square into the forbiddance effect (I didn't allow a saving through for this artifact). He is LE (long story why, but he fell from grace) and took full 72 points of damage. He dropped.

The Rogue/alchemist charged in as well and got to Jaruunicka... that ended poorly for him as she killed him in two rounds. First round she ended with a grab attack and he couldn't get out.

I didn't have the hezrou or the Bebilith attack at all, and the drake riders only attacked once or twice throughout the battle. The Wizard reigned down ice balls (admixtured fireballs) and cleared the area. The warpriest took one of the hits from the drake riders and knocked him to the ground, he was riding on the synthesist summmon since they teleported so far away from the redoubt. He fell from the hit and took more damage. He was able to get into the tower after taking some damage from the bell.

The wizard took damage from something, I can't remember what, but she went down trying to enter the redoubt, also taking a full 72 points of damage. She spend 2 hero points to save her life.

The war priest was afraid to leave the tower with Jaruunicka standing out there with spell immunity:fireball on, so he tried to shoot arrows. He also didn't want to leave and potentially take damage going back in since he was already hurt.

At this point the summoner was left. I had the drake riders flee and the bebilith, will-o-wisps, the grubs and the hezrou with died from the fireball or just left since they didn't want to die. Jaruunicka was left. She almost killed the summoner in battle.

I didn't even rebuild her, although I did reselect her spells and gave her the appropriate buffs.

I use the terrain often and pretty much the party uses that terrain to isolate themselves. I don't even need to throw up walls since they tend to trap themselves, lol.

Is this helpful?


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Ok, I got through all if this thread... The failed AP thread and nobody's coverage... I think I got that name wrong. I am completely taken back.

I am at the end of book 3. We rushed book 1 and 2 since they were higher level from a homebrew, but got them on track by the beginning of book 3. I did my best house the XP system and the mythic trials, but I gave up on it: XP is a pain and the math does not add up right for me - the mythic trials just seem like a gimmick and I'm giving them tiers per the schedule in the front of each AP.

I've talked to my players and had them read a page or two of this thread to let them know this AP breaks down quickly and I want to make some modifications before it breaks. We are 20 point buy, max hit point up to level 8 and we use hero points. I know this gives them a stronger character, but that was how the homebrew was because originally it was only three players with me experimenting in the worldwound. Now we have 4-5 players and we keep using the grandfathered system.

My players are getting slaughtered. I'm not really buffing the monsters much and I'm nervous. They build great characters but work horribly together. In Arueshalae's Rescue, three characters died, one permanently (story reason), one stabilized and one used two hero points to save himself from death.

They have terrible potential to do damage but almost always seem to go down. Now, they are about to enter the Ivory Sanctum, they are trying to work together, and I'm trying to figure out who and how to buff the monsters without killing them.

I am wondering what I am doing differently than you guys and what I need to do to make it balanced more. My players are scared to die and I'm nervous to have this AP break and represent another waste of time and money.


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Well, I'll be damned.

So, if an object is lost, you can only find it with locate object... Sad news for my little friend.


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and yet, the spell obscure object says

Quote:
This spell hides an object from location by divination (scrying) effects, such as the scrying spell or a crystal ball. Such an attempt automatically fails (if the divination is targeted on the object) or fails to perceive the object (if the divination is targeted on a nearby location, object, or person).

What does the boldfaced text mean?


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Is this the final conclusion then, that it does work?

What is the save for magical items?

I suppose I can just make up a number.


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Sorry if this has been answered before... I'm sure it has, but can't find it.

If I lose my special sword, how do I find it?

If an NPC takes it, I know I can scry on them, but what if they sold the item?

The scry spell specifically calls out creatures, but not objects.
Locate object will point me in the right direction, but what if it is guarded by who-knows-what? I would like to also be prepared.

Help me find my heirloom and not die doing it!!!


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If it says, "bonus on damage rolls", I would think that would only be weapon damage.

I could see someone arguing for precision damage, like sneak attack, or enchancement damage, like bane, but I would think this works more like vital strike than mythic vital strike... if you get my meaning.

Without the standard action problems...


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Anyone have any thoughts on this?

I know it's a corner case, but before I do something that might make a battle harder than it should be, I want to see if I am missing something.


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Da'ath, thank you for your words, I think you understand me better than others.

I didn't intent this to become a deep rules discussion or an example of how people can be rude for no reason.

I understand the rules well enough to know that I do not like this spell the way it is written. I had a discussion with my players and we all agreed it was odd how the spell worked for such a low cost. We discussed alternatives, some of the same thoughts appeared in this thread.

I decided my course since it would be fast for me at the table, no rolls necessary, and as long as the rule is known well in advance, there are no upset players. I brought my decision to my players and they agreed it was a fair house rule.

My players are currently 11th level and 4th mythic tier. This rule doesn't effect the game much, but it makes me happier for it.

This is why I posted in the house rule section over the rules or advice section.

For those who think I am a bad DM because I like using environment and lighting in my game, well, please keep that to yourself. My players are happy and I enjoy running, which is the point.


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I was wondering if you are facing a burrowing creature and he lifts his body only partway out of the ground, does he have partial cover ?

I ask this because in the environmental section of the CRB, we have this rule for water combat:

Attacks from Land: Characters swimming, floating, or treading water on the surface, or wading in water at least chest deep, have improved cover (+8 bonus to AC, +4 bonus on Reflex saves) from opponents on land. Land-bound opponents who have freedom of movement effects ignore this cover when making melee attacks against targets in the water. A completely submerged creature has total cover against opponents on land unless those opponents have freedom of movement effects. Magical effects are unaffected except for those that require attack rolls (which are treated like any other effects) and fire effects.


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Snively wrote:

It'd be interesting if you made some underdarkies with Continual Darkness items to toss around as well... fight fire with fire, so to speak.

I get what you mean, this spell really shoots the bell curve of item creation. But do they have the spell in their spellbook? Can they find a Ruby? Will their god grant it for the day? Will the all mighty dollar be able to afford the item when it's for sale? Light should be available, but Perma-Light may be reserved for higher level adventures, say as a reward in a scroll at the end of an adventure arc, when you're through with a tread through the dark dungeon?

You need a Ruby for this spell, an Onyx for that spell... how rare are gemstones in your world?

I'm not really looking to micromanage or get in an arms race with the players. I just don't understand some items. I was thinking a lot about the ecology of certain creatures and the scare factor of darkness. Then I started thinking about economies and how if continual flame was so cheap, lights would be everywhere. I'm mean everywhere.

So trying to look at all of these things, plus thinking about a darkness discussion we recently had at the table I saw the silliness in this spell. At least from my perspective.

I told my players of the house rule and they are all for it, so I'm happy. It won't change much at the table, but it makes me feel better.

Thanks again for all the suggestions!


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Maybe I didn't make this clear enough, this is not for my current game but for future games. The players now have many ways to bypass it

However, I so think it's great that I'm a terrible GM now because I don't like a spell.

Thanks!


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This rule makes sense game wise, and a lot easier to deal with in combat.

Can you imagine if I said apply 10 points of damage to yourself and all items your character is holding? That would grind the table to a halt.

Thanks!


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Lol... they would rather just kill the person.

This discussion is really a lot less about my players (they like the rules as is), but more about satisfying something that bothers me.

I think I am going to make it non-magical and end my thoughts.

I really thank you guys for contributing.


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To add (this is fun)...

an everburning torch says this and costs 110 gp

Everburning Torch This otherwise normal torch has a continual flame spell cast on it. This causes it to shed light like an ordinary torch, but it does not emit heat or deal fire damage if used as a weapon. Price 110 gp; Weight 1 lb.

Why does a mundane item cost twice what the magic version costs? Especially since you use the magic spell to create the mundane item? My guess is if you were making an everburning torch, it should cost you 55 gp... or spend 50 gp and have a magical one that kicks the crap out of the more expensive version.

Does that make any sense at all?


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Yes, I do this as well. Fog clouds in darkness, it's pretty fun.

It's the idea of a spell having this much power (yes, it's pretty minor; it's a pet peeve).

For example, what would the cost be of creating this item using the magic rules? My guess would be:

Spell level x caster level x 2,000 gp

3 X 5 X 2,000 = 30,000 gp.

I would be pretty happy if this was the case, but it's not. For the price, you could say this should be halved since one of the rules is if the power lasts 24 hours, the cost is halved. ok, 15,000 gp.

Or if you used the light spell to base this, we are looking at this:

Spell level x caster level x 750 gp (based on 100 charges, which this formula is for 50 charges, so I will double the final total)

3 X 5 X 750 X 2 = 22,5000 gp.

This is a pretty good deal... and it bothers me. Since so many creatures have darkness as a power, or deeper darkess, a 50 gp spell that can be handed out defeats it for all of these creatures. Kind of makes the darkness spells nearly useless.

This is why I am thinking about making the flame mundane, but still allowing it to last forever. Like an eternal sunrod or something.


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As my party gets higher and higher level, this becomes a non-issue. They have access to daylight, which I think is a great counter.

This is a houserule I will use in my later games, so I want to hammer something out that is fast and easy.

Mr Pitt, it is still continual flame, lol, since it goes on forever.

Goth, currently, we have the two spells interact and the light returns to the prevailing condition. In some cases, its dark and others it is dim light. This is how the rules would have us do it. Since additional castings of darkness or light do not stack, these spells are pretty much done in the spell area. Players with darkvision rejoice and you have the darkvision spell to offset others. I am ok with this part as well since it is a resource expended to offset another resource expended.

Da'ath, that is a possibility, and an option one my players recommended. But how would that interact with continual flame items?


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But why? Or is the answer "magic" and we move on?


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If you cast acid cloud, the spell says, "Each round on your turn, starting when you cast the spell, the fog deals 2d6 points of acid damage to each creature and object within it.

I highlighted the part I am concerned with. Does this mean the character takes damage as well as all their gear, or just unattended objects?

I had the last encounter start to burn all of their clothes and whatnot, but that was mostly for fluff. Then I started thinking, what if my wizard player enters and his component pouch gets destroyed. That does not seem like a lot of fun.

It does make the spell dangerous, and seems to make sense that everything would take damage, but could really alter an encounter quickly.

The entire spell is listed below:

Spoiler:
Acid Fog
School conjuration (creation) [acid]; Level magus 6, sorcerer/wizard 6

CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (powdered peas and an animal hoof)

EFFECT
Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect fog spreads in 20-ft. radius, 20 ft. high
Duration 1 round/level
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no

DESCRIPTION
Acid fog creates a billowing mass of misty vapors like the solid fog spell. In addition to slowing down creatures and obscuring sight, this spell's vapors are highly acidic. Each round on your turn, starting when you cast the spell, the fog deals 2d6 points of acid damage to each creature and object within it.


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Yes, I really do not like this spell.

Why?

For a measly 50 gp worth of powered ruby, or something, cast by a divine caster (3rd level) it blocks the effects of every darkness spell in the game.

Yes, there is heighten deeper darkness, but that really never gets cast. I am running a wrath of the righteous game and a lot of creatures have deeper darkness at-will. I like to use these tactics to create more difficult encounters, but sadly by RAW (unless I am wrong, I am wrong often) all they have to do is pull out there little continual flame rock and bang, no more darkness spell. FOREVER.

Yes, I could cast dispel magic... but they know that and carry multiple. I tried thinking about having the two effects counter and another casting of deeper darkness would then work normally, but they pull out another one. Arg... this shouldn't be an arms race.

What I am trying to figure out is how to make this spell functional, but not something that can take out stronger spells. My houserule that I want to use is treat continual flame as a mundane spell that lasts until dispelled. Then even darkness would cancel out the light effects like it would a torch. I feel this to be more balancing.

Can anyone either validate this probably terrible houserule or offer suggestion one what they do?

Thanks


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It's an odd ability to be sure, lol.


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Really?


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What does this do?

Blood Sanctuary (Su): At 3rd level, due to the power of his blood, a bloodrager can stand confidently amid the effects of spells cast by himself or his allies. He gains a +2 bonus on saving throws against spells that he or an ally casts.

Why do you need a saving throw vs you cast yourself? Why saving throw bonuses against allies?


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Solves that.

Thank you!


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HangarFlying wrote:
EDIT: there are a number of examples that allow free actions outside of a turn. In short, yes, a summoner can use his Fused Link ability outside of his turn.

What are the other exceptions? Speaking is one, but only limited to a few sentences.


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HangarFlying wrote:
This would be an exception to the general rule. The only way this ability can work is if the summoner is allowed to do this outside of his turn.

That is kind of my point. I do not like this archetype at all... not the class much either, too prone to abuse.

But rules are rules.

If the ability doesn't work, we need to modify it or have a FAQ. Either this is a specific that overrides the general, or it is not and I see tears well up from my player.

Or I houserule it as an immediate action.


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Lol, I like quick and to the point answers.

So, help me with this then,

The summoner gets hit with an attack and his eidolons hit points get brought down to -2. Doesn't the eidolon immediately dissappear?

How does this ability work?


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Can someone help me out here.

The Fused Link (Su) ability says:

Spoiler:
Starting at 1st level, the synthesist forms a close bond with his eidolon. Whenever the temporary hit points from his eidolon would be reduced to 0, the summoner can, as a free action, sacrifice any number of his own hit points. Each hit point sacrificed this way prevents 1 point of damage done to the eidolon (thus preventing the loss of the summoner’s temporary hit points), preventing the eidolon from being killed and sent back to its home plane.

This ability replaces life link.

Free actions says:

Spoiler:
Free actions don't take any time at all, though there may be limits to the number of free actions you can perform in a turn. Free actions rarely incur attacks of opportunity. Some common free actions are described below.

Cease Concentration on Spell

You can stop concentrating on a spell as a free action.

Drop an Item

Dropping an item in your space or into an adjacent square is a free action.

Drop Prone

Dropping to a prone position in your space is a free action.

Speak

In general, speaking is a free action that you can perform even when it isn't your turn. Speaking more than a few sentences is generally beyond the limit of a free action.

Does this mean the summoner can only move hit points from herself to her eidolon during her turn?

Shouldn't this be a "no action" or an immediate action?


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It's going to be hard to just forget about perception checks. My players wonder about these things too, at least I am sure they will; they are clever, lol.

I would have to bring in the Q9 demons to Q2, it would make not sense otherwise.

I did over look Q14, the training area, but I am not sure that is enough to block out a real battle. There are 4 templars, weak against anything i this section btw, training together or against wood dummies. I am guessing that is making some noise, but nothing like the sound of a real battle fighting against fiendish minotaurs.

Alarms will be set off.

Did you guys just run this as a room to room encounter? What is behind this door... ah, most death. Wow, we got through that one, lets see what is behind the next door? Ouch, more death. Good thing these rooms are sound tight, that battle would have been dangerous if they worked together.


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My party is about to run through the Ivory Sanctum this weekend and I am a little puzzled about how it is set up.

First, after reading it through a few times, it seems there are three forces at play:

1: Jerribeth (Q5)
2: Grillixbee (Q10)
3: Xanthir Vang(Q19)

Jerribeth wants Xanthir dead so she can take a promotion.

Grillixbee wants Jerribeth dead since he/she believes Xanthir is the more powerful out of the two, but he/she is truly only loyal to Areelu

Xanthir is just a powerful force.

The way the players are supposed to come in is through Q1 and fight 6 basilisks, a cake walk and then a few fiendish minotaurs in area Q2 through an illusionary wall the PC already know about. This is all straight forward.

The problem that I have is with the general "dungeon crawl" feeling of this. This is what I am trying to figure out, if the PC start to fight the minotaurs in area Q2, through the gate or not (everyone has access to teleportation or dimension door at this level), how is it that the ENTIRE complex is not aware of what is going on?

I was looking at the perception skill and it says hearing a combat is a DC -10. Modifiers are +1 for every 10 feet, +5 for a closed door and +10 for every foot of wall. Jerribeth has a perception check of +26. That means her reactive perception is +36. That means in her room in area Q5, the DC for her to hear a battle in Q2 is about a DC 5: about 50 feet away (DC +5), through a 1 foot wall (DC +10) in combat (DC -10). She is 100% going to know.

Xanthir sitting in his room counting his worms has about a DC 22 using similar calculations (70 feet, one closed door and 2 one foot walls). His perception is +23, so he will hear this too. It's not a big complex after all.

What is to stop the entire complex from coming down on the PC's? They are the heroes of Kenebres that killed Stauton, saved the heretic succubus, rescued Drezen and pretty much have caused problems for the forces of evil. Are they really going to just sit in their rooms and wait for the PC's to open each and every door?

Take the demons in Q9, I have no idea why they are not engaging against the PC's during the Q2 battle.. I mean they are only 80 feet away and they have line of sight. They are either going to attack or not, but the telepathy 100 feet thing is pretty much going to also alert the entire complex that the heroes have arrived.

I have trouble with this, and am working on a different solution and am very curious to what you have to say. I think when the PC's begin their simple battle with the minotaurs, Jerribeth is going to pop her cute little face around the corner and say hi to the PC's. She will give her little speech in private about how she really want Xanthir dead and hope the PC's don't just kill her outright.

If they run into Grillixbee, he/she can try to sway the PC's to not listen to Jerribeth and send them back to kill her, but either way Xanthir is going to know what is going on and scrying the entire time to prepare.

There is no way Grillixbee is going to let the PC's get a hold of documents just laying out on the table... this doesn't make any sense at all. The documents will be in Xanthir's room for save keeping well before the PC's reach the room.

All the wondering creatures are either going to hold back and do a full assault with whomever they are more allied with, or they are going to head for the hills.

I see this going down as two or three battles, with the other rooms either fleeing the scene or simple mop up that doesn't even deserve exposition.

The final battle will be with Xanthir, with maybe some of the demons assisting. I think having the Q9 demons and maybe some of the blackfire adepts helping.

Battle one or two will either be with Jerribeth with the remaining minotaurs helping, or with Grillixbee and the blackfire adepts.

Xanthir is smart and pretty wise as well. I am sure he knows Jerribeth is plotting against him and will wait to strike at the right time during the battle to finish off the PC's. Why would he wait for the PC's to recharge fully? Plus, he gets rid of the plotting Jerribeth at the same time.

So, another problem then pops up, there is no way the PC's can survive this assault.

I could have the PC's fight either Jerribeth or Grillixbee, which gives Xanthir time to get prepared, and send summons out to cause problems, but again, it gets too hard for the PC's.

I read the thread about how this AP was too easy and the mythic levels allowed them to tear though all the encounters, but this does not happen at my table. We have lost a number of characters and they complain the AP is a little too hard. We had another character death just last week against the annis hag. That was getting close to a TPK.

This post might be a little scattered, so I apologize. I hope my point is clear and I look forward to getting feedback and suggestions.


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Rylar wrote:

I'm not using XP nor trails. I am just telling them when they level up or gain a tier.

When looking at the trials and how they were described in the mythic handbook vs this path, I was a little off put. But, the path is trying to cover 30 level ups in 6 books, so I feel we can let this slide.

Yes, this


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Seannoss, you've captured my original reason for this thread perfectly. I feel the trials in the books do not always live up to the trials we should be giving to the players. Killing a worm that walks is hard, but not sure if it's a trial. Even closing a dimensional rift is impressive, but a mythic trial?

It seems they are trials only because this adventure is mythic and we need to have X amount of trials to continue. Having so many trials for trivial tasks makes less of the trials that do matter. Killing a demon lord is a mythic trial, killing a house if fiendish barbarians is apparently a trial too, but seems to be of similar stature.

Dragonchess, I'm not trying to say Paizo doesn't know their own material, although maybe I did say that. It was not my true meaning. They are trying to work within the confines of they system they made, which makes very impressive task - killing a demon lord- and trivial tasks - killing a fiendish barbarian - on par, which it's not.

It would be easier to just throw out the trial system as written and ad hoc the game as we mostly do with experience. One trial is one tier. All we have to do is choose which tiers to focus on, and I think the adventure already does that well.


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Sorry to necro this thread... but I am wondering what the answer is now that we have this FAQ:

Quote:

Temporary Ability Score Increases vs. Permanent Ability Score Increases: Why do temporary bonuses only apply to some things?

Temporary ability bonuses should apply to anything relating to that ability score, just as permanent ability score bonuses do. The section in the glossary was very tight on space and it was not possible to list every single ability score-related game effect that an ability score bones would affect.

The purpose of the temporary ability score ruling is to make it so you don't have to rebuild your character every time you get a bull's strength or similar spell; it just summarizes the most common game effects relative to that ability score.

For example, most of the time when you get bull's strength, you're using it for combat, so the glossary mentions Strength-based skill checks, melee attack rolls, Strength-based weapon damage rolls, CMB, and CMD. It doesn't call out melee attack rolls that use Dex instead of Str (such as when using Weapon Finesse) or situations where your applied Str bonus should be halved or multiplied (such as whith off-hand or two-handed weapons). You're usually not using the spell for a 1 min./level increase in your carrying capacity, so that isn't mentioned there, but the bonus should still apply to that, as well as to Strength checks to break down doors.

Think of it in the same way that a simple template has "quick rules" and "rebuild rules;" they're supposed to create monsters which are roughly equivalent in terms of stats, but the quick rules are a short cut that misses some details compared to using the rebuild rules. Likewise, the temporary ability score rule is intended as a short cut to speed up gameplay, not as the most precise way of applying the bonus.

A temporary ability score bonus should affect all of the same stats and rolls that a permanent ability score bonus does.

If I am understanding, now fighters wearing heavy armor can be squashed by the weight of their own gear in battle if they take enough penalties to STR? OR does this change nothing since the FAQ is only talking about bonuses and not penalties?

Although... aren't penalties just negative bonuses?


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So, do you pick the spell on selecting of the feat or each time you perform your obedience?


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Since outsiders do not sleep...would slumber still effect them?

I know they are not immune... Maybe a poor mans house rule.


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I hear yah... I am just letting people know what they told me.

Since Hero Lab speaks directly with Paizo, I would think they have a reasoning for coding it the way they do.

RAW vs RAI I suppose. Would be nice to know if this was what Paizo intended.

This is an incredibly powerful way to create a character, and potentially give a GM a struggle. Caution would tell us to at least consider it.

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