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Nexian Galley

Globetrotter's page

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 251 posts. No reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Maybe I used "hardcore" inappropriately in that sentence. I meant I was focused on trying to use it.

I have since thrown out a bunch of encounters and used Scorpions guide to beef up certain ones. I have a budget now of just over 70,000 XP to throw at the party for part 2 and still have the end of part 4 end up where it should.

Now, I get to play with the encounter builder from Hero Lab

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Yeah, I am in the process of making some pretty serious changes.

Currently, I am removing the hex exploration and many of the sites. Eagle Rock is too easy and doesn't move the story forward. Delamare's Tomb is going to be difficult to explain to my characters (I will have NPC's complete this one). Wintersun Hall is flavorful, but should be a PFS mission instead of in this AP.

The other four I am rewriting to gear closer to my party. That gives me an XP budget I can play with to make it harder without fudging.

Since I am so hardcore to use the XP system, lol...

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Well.. that is frustrating. However, I have listen to countless discussions on how this is not made for the power gamer.

At least you guys are here to help with upping the power curve.

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Yes, I have heard a lot of the same things. They do not have to be that level, but that is what the AP plans for.

Funny that I am trying to run the AP as designed, yet am also trying to find way to redesign it to make it work properly.

Do you guys have similar problems with other AP's?

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Very good points.

Let me delve a little bit into the players histories and see what I can run with. they have all very detailed backstories and I have wanted to use more of them.

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

well... I want to track XP.

I did the math for adjusting to the slow track and I think that will cause more complications that just removing some encounters.

Part 2 would need about 170,000 more XP added to make sure the players hit 11th by the end of Part 3. If you wanted them to land at 12 right before Vang's battle, you would have to place a few more encounters into the Ivory Sanctum (about another 76,800 XP) to land them right where they need to be by the book's end.

Now, this would allow the players to hit all of the story points, and give you an opportunity to beef up the weaker encounters to make it not so boring. Take Winterhall for example, are 4th level barbarians really an encounter for the party? The barbarians will have trouble even hitting them, let alone making this world seem dangerous. I would also have the budget to play the all-out-assault section at the beginning of the story.

Another option is making Part 3 a little more robust. There is really very little we can do here. I am not sure how the writers imagined the spacing on these parts. Why is part 1 and 3 so short, part 2 takes forever and part 4 is just an attack on a sanctum? It would be nice if some of part 2 was added to part 3 to even out the spacing and the trials a bit.

All the additional encounters will draw out this AP much longer than necessary. I wonder if I switch to slow and just beef up all the encounters, but then all I am doing it a lot of paperwork to make the XP match the progression.

Not tracking XP is so much easier. I am having a lot of trouble seeing how this even works.

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

They have no idea how or what constitutes a mythic trial. To be honest, I am a little unclear myself.

I had thought mythic trials were something of note. The pfsrd says:

It usually represents the culmination of part of the heroes' story, marking it as an important point in their legend...

I do not think I am running them correctly. I can see Jerribeth being a pretty grand trial since she was instrumental in the fall of Drezen, but Vang? Yes, he is a tough one, but no one really knows about him.

I cannot even fathom why the Woundworm is a trial, except again, he is a powerful encounter.

I suppose I am saying I am a little disappointed in how mythic trials are portrayed.

Do you guys run the mythic encounters differently? Do you build a bunch of hype around them to make the players tremble, so when they do face the creature, it feels different?

I wonder how to adjust my play style to get this to feel greater than just another tough encounter.

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

What about switching the party to a Slow XP track, do you think that would cause problems?

That would allow for more battles but I would have to make some pretty serious adjustments since we are already at 9th level.

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I am starting book 3 and I am reviewing the mythic trial schedule.

There are 5 trials scheduled for this book. 2 trials will get them to 4th tier and the other 3 for 5th tier by books end.

There are 4 parts to this book and this is the trial breakdown:
Trial 1: Defeat the woundwyrm.
Trial 2: Rescue and ally with Arueshalae.
Trial 3: Complete personal mystery.
Trial 4: Shut down the Ivory Sanctum.
Trial 5: Defeat Xanthir Vang.

Part 1: No Trials

Part 2: 1 Trial (The Woundwyrm’s Lair)

Part 3: 1 Trial (Arueshalae’s Redoubt)

Part 4: 2 or 3 Trials, two happen when you defeat Xanthir Vang. 1 trial for his defeat and the other for shutting down the Ivory Labyrinth. The third possible trial is if you do not use the personal mystery (campaign traits), then defeating Jerribeth counts.

I am not really using the personal mysteries yet, my players have created characters part way through this and are not feeling the connection yet. Anything pressed now will be a bit forced and I cannot play that off correctly. I am perfectly fine with using Jerribeth as a mythic trial, she did play a pivotal role in the fall of Drezen. Vang is also a perfect trial. But... I am having more difficulty with the "shut down the Ivory Sanctum" trial. That happened when you take out Vang. Two trials completed at the same time?

the AP says this:

The final two mythic trials the PCs can complete in “Demon’s Heresy” are closely linked. Defeating Xanthir Vang is one such trial. The second trial requires the PCs to disrupt the Templars of the Ivory Labyrinth—this can be accomplished if the PCs defeat Jerribeth and Xanthir Vang in addition to recovering as much intelligence as possible from the Ivory Sanctum, but other combinations of accomplishments can suffice as you see fit.

This feels forced. How did your players feel when you gave them two trials at once? Did you come up with something better?

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Only one of my players has the campaign trait... and as it turns out cares very little for the prospect of finding out about her parents (riftwarden orphan).

Although, that might be how he is playing the character (female character). I will have to make it more interesting to see if I can capture some emotion.

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Ah, lol Yes, I forgot about that part. :)

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

So.. I reviewed the entire book today (work was slow today). Part 2 is pretty solid with a lot of encounters with flavor. I am not a fan of the hex exploration, but that is easily changed to quest giving and teleportation to and from.

Part 3 is a simple "bring out your best dice because today is combat all day long". My players like that level of intensity.

Part 4 is a pretty long slog of room after room, similar to when they were taking control of Drezen. My players only cleared about half before attacking Staunton. I had the rest of the army clear the other rooms while the creatures fled.

Are we expecting the players to go through every room, somehow level up before they walk into the BBEG's room and then fight without a break?

If this was my base, I would find a way to destroy these pests with a controlled assault... instead of just watching them (scry) kill one baddie after another before they came to my room. I mean, we are talking about potentially 18 rooms to explore before Mr. Squiggly gets to lay a smack down.

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If I knew how to share a file, I would post what I made so you guys could see it. It might be helpful.. it might not.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Seannoss, I am very curious to know how you ran this. I am planning on making the encounters harder, but not changing the XP at all. I made my sheet to help plan for this book, and to see where the XP total would fall, but I didn't realize how tight this was.

Did your players go to each of the hexes with encounters? I am thinking about tossing out a few and make up with random encounters to make the worldwound feel more real and dangerous.

If I did this, which one would you recommend tossing? Eagle Rock (area F) seems to be easy to toss as well as Delamere's tomb. Wintersun Hall looks like a cake walk for the players, but it also seems pretty flavorful. I could toss the two and make Wintersun harder. Then allow the PC's the chance to do a little redemption.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Opps... forgot about one encounter in the Family crypt... so that makes my number even further off... but not my much.

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Is everyone running this as is, or are you modifying it heavily? Sorry for this long and possibly very confusing post...

These are the questions I am asking, posted here and at the end (because I feel like being a student today). I am curious to know what you guys are doing and what your players have done.

Have your players wanted to go to each and every location listed?

Have you removed some of the encounters in the sections to allocate for random encounters?

Let me explain:

I am doing my planning for this book and have calculated all the XP needed for my 4 person party. Part 1 is downtime and loot cashing in… no XP here. All the PC’s are at the beginning of 9th level and have just gotten 3rd tier. We had a higher level group start at the end of book 1 and run through a modified book 2. At the end, we made sure everyone was all together equal and ready to run book 3 as is.
So, part one: no XP no encounters: easy.

Part two. This is a sandbox element that allows the PC to choose where they want to go based on news they find interesting. There are 15 hexes on the map that contain points of note. The PC’s can explore any unlabeled hex possibly attracting random encounters, but truth be told, this is not a wise course; you will see why below.

Of the hexes, areas A, B, and C are either where you are or where you were. These are optional revisits depending on if the PC’s skipped something (mine skipped nearly all of it) or you want to pad the adventure with more XP. The story/combat hexes (D, F, G, H, J, K, L, and M) give a total of 212,800 XP (53,200 each 4 players). The other named hexes are fluff/random encounters or foreshadowing for the next two parts.

The experience curve for this book says you should hit 10th level halfway through this part. At 53,200 XP for going to each area, you should hit 10th level pretty easy, only needing 30,000: very good. My issue is how part 2 and part 3 interact.

Part 3 is really just one big encounter. 8 areas with multiple encounters will challenge the party greatly. Finishing this part the PC’s are scheduled to hit their 4th tier and 11th level. The total XP for this section is 91,200, or 22,800 per player (again, 4 person party). With the overflow from part 2, that leaves the party with a deficit of 16,000, or 4,000 each. No problem, this is what random encounters are for. I can add a little to part 2 without complicating part 3 making sure the PC’s land right where they need to at the end of part 4.

But… the beginning of part 2 has an encounter that I didn’t include in my above calculation: the incubus and its mount. That is supposed to start off this entire thing. If we add this, we have our deficit. But…, to push the PC’s into action, we are supposed to run a few encounters that attack the citadel, either inside or outside. These XP points are sure to push us over the top. And then what about the random encounters? Any of those are going to push us way over the top. The worldwound is supposed to be a dangerous place, there are sure to be encounters while moving from hex to hex.

Part four gives us a combined XP total of 375,000 XP (93,750 per player). We are supposed to hit 11th level before we face the big baddie and 5th tier at the conclusion of this story. The XP gap between 10th and 11th is 65,000 and the final battle is worth 76,800: we are good here. That allows the PC’s to start with the appropriate amount of XP that the next writing I am sure allocated for.

If we play this as written there is no space for random encounters. If we remove a few of the locales, we do have some room for random encounters, but the players miss a little flavor. So, as I posted above, I am curious to know what you guys are doing and what your players have done. Have your players wanted to go to each and every location listed? Have you removed some of the encounters in the sections to allocate for these random encounters?

I am sure many of you just throw out the XP system, which really solve this problem. I usually ad hoc my XP anyway, only telling my players when it is time to level, but I want to try and follow it as written. I have run games for years… decades even, but rarely have I run written adventures. I purchased this AP to learn more about how the professionals do it. I am eager to hear your thoughts.

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

thanks everyone for their suggestions...

I am going to play around with the stat blocks provided on the other thread... probably find a way to rework the hex searching.. I do not like that.

We only play twice a month and we are all old guys... our memories do not work well with sandbox/hunt and peck gaming. I will reworked section two as a more cohesive rail that gives direction to lead into book 4.

Your suggestions are well received.

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I plan on skipping the downtime system stuff and the city building. I have no time to learn the sub systems. I skipped the army battles in the last book as well.

The mystic shadow demon from book two nearly wiped out my party. 32 rounds of combat and being chased nearly out of the citidal. It was a tough fight.

I looked at some of the creatures and their to hit bonuses are shooting much higher. My players all have AC in the high 20's to low 30's.

I'm going to reread the AP to prepare for our next sessions, but I'm wondering if anyone has experienced something that needs to be changed significantly up or down in power.

I will not do the one encounter per day.. That is just plain silly to teach your players to mythic nova each time...

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I'm about to start running book 3. Any pitfalls I should be aware about?

Weak encounters to buff (I have a pretty optimized party)?
Encounters that might trigger a TPK?

Any boring sections I should skip :)

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Can you bull rush a prone opponent?

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Captain Zoom wrote:
I don't think a wall is analogous to a tree, but I'd probably allow a character to use a column or similar object.

I agree. Maybe it is the act of moving around something that allows you to get the partial cover, but that opens up all sorts of other questions about conditions and obstacles.

As much as the comments above are probably correct, I am still having trouble reconciling branches getting in the way of the defender as much as the attacker. I see that as a zero sum gain.

I should probably ignore the branches all together in this discussion, it is not helping me at all.

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Blakmane wrote:
Having your back against a wall is traditionally a very bad thing...

Right. I think so too.

"Orfamay Quest wrote:
I think the idea is not that you're fighting with your back to the tree, but with the tree between you and the BBEG -- hence the partial cover.

Hmm... I hadn't considered that, I am still having trouble visualizing that. I supposed if the tree were very thin, but wouldn't you have movement penalties to avoid getting tangled in all of those branches?

It seems that I am overthinking this rule and maybe it is best left ignored.

A reason I thought it might be applicable is you always see the brute in the movies have trouble hitting the agile fighter against the wall, not because he dodged, but because his sword/axe hit the wall or got lodged in the door.

Thematic, but maybe not in the way this rule is trying to emulate.

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How many people are aware of this rule found in the forest environment section of the CRB:

Trees: The most important terrain element in a forest is the trees, obviously. A creature standing in the same square as a tree gains partial cover, which grants a +2 bonus to Armor Class and a +1 bonus on Reflex saves. The presence of a tree doesn't otherwise affect a creature's fighting space, because it's assumed that the creature is using the tree to its advantage when it can.

Well... I made a ruling last session, or it could have been two sessions ago, that this applied to walls too. My thinking is that if you are next to a well/sharing the space, I don't see how a tree and a wall would be any different. At least that is what I told myself. I couldn't remember the exact rule, all I remembered is the part of having your back against something solid how it could help.

I just looked it back up again and now I am questioning my rule. Is this a corner case? This hard to find rule isn't mentioned anywhere else, so I am thinking it is really not something anyone ever uses.

It does give reason to have your back against the wall, tactically, although it doesn't make a whole ton of sense the deeper I think about it (fighter against the ropes).

Maybe I should have put this in the advice or the house rule section, but I am first more interested in the reasoning behind the rule.

I am not sure how you can even share the same space as a tree, although I see the fluff in using the branches as a point of defense.

What do you guys think?

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What to do if a character dies?

Are their points in the story to regain mythic power?

We haven't had a character death yet, but I worried when that day comes.

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Lol... That's a funny image :)

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I wonder if that is a simple oversight... It is odd that the application of a potion or an oil would follow different rules than applying a poison.

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Anyone have any thoughts on this not provoking?

My gut is that the poisoning would still provoke until it becomes a swift action, regardless of the (EX) ability and the confusion my player and I are having.

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

One of my players brought this to my attention, and given he is a better writer than me, I am going to post his question instead of me writing it:

Normally, applying an oil takes a standard action and provokes.

Since the Alchemist abilities at 3rd and 6th level applying poisons as move and then swift actions are Ex abilities do they follow the rule of not provoking or does the application of poison, no matter how fast, still provoke?:

Here's the Alchemist text:
Swift Alchemy (Ex): At 3rd level, an alchemist can create alchemical items with astounding speed. It takes an alchemist half the normal amount of time to create alchemical items, and he can apply poison to a weapon as a move action.

And here's the text on actions in combat:

Extraordinary Abilities (Ex): Using an extraordinary ability is usually not an action because most extraordinary abilities automatically happen in a reactive fashion. Those extraordinary abilities that are actions are usually standard actions that cannot be disrupted, do not require concentration, and do not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Anyone have additional thoughts?

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Hmm... I hadn't thought of doing it like that. I would have to increase the difficulty quite a bit, but that wouldn't be too far off as how I've played the worldwound up to this point.

Thing is, they have must exited the shudderwood, which is far away from the city (cs t remember the spelling). I had them reunite with crusaders they have befriended, so there is a connection there. I could swap out/reskin an NPC or two and make that work. They would have to get there via teleportation. Maybe the reason for the rush is the Balrog killed the dragon (that's not a spoiler, right?) and they fear the wardstone is under attack.

I had also planned on this team capturing the party's Succubis with a circle of protections and dimensional anchor spell... She could tell them the while plot. Even better is if they get a hint she could be redeemed. That would play in with a lot of they themes of the AP.

You're right this will take a bit of work, but it should be satisfying. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I have a home brew I've run for a bit and due to work constraints I would like to move them into this AP to save my sanity.

I purchase the first 3 AP and have read the first two. I would like to lead them into the AP and make it make story sense. I would rather not let them know I am using this AP at the beginning to not break realism in the game.

This is what I have:

3 players - 9th level each
1. 1 wizard/3rogue/4 alchemist elf mythic 2nd tier
2. 5 monk MoMS/4 ninja - non-mythic
3. Vanilla 9th lvl cleric of Iomedae mythic 2nd tier

I was thinking about having them come in at the beginning do the third book, but that seems to be too high. My thoughts are to have them come in to take the citidal, having been recruited after the "original" heroes dying at the hands of the chimera.

Since they just got their 2nd tier, this would place them right about where they need to be. The group is pretty savvy, with AC's in the upper 20's, mid 30's when buffed and doing their thing.

They even have a long standing relationship with a Succubus, they all have the profane gift. This lady tortures them routinely by screwing their plans and forcing them to do things they do not like. They hate her. :)

They came to the worldwound on a mission from here to get a mcguffin, doesn't matter. They have a side mission to want to develop a poison that can hurt demons. They rogue/wizard/alchemist is all about poisons.

How would you guys blend this correctly? They know a group of crusaders that could give them the news and ask for help. I would have to tie in NPC's after the fact, which is less work in the long run than continuing the home brew.

I'm also not sure how to grant mythic ranks to the ninja/monk.

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

That makes sense to me. Sometimes all the added clarification in the text only serves to confuse.

Thanks for the quick response.

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I have a player with an agile elven curve blade.

He is thinking about taking power attack to amplify his damage. He qualifies for power attack, with a STR of 15.

I believe it should work, allowing him to trade a -1 to hit for a +2 to damage, but I am unsure about the additional 50% text.

Since the text calls out he only gets a 50% increase to his STR modifier, would he get the +2 but not the +3? That seems to be a strict reading of the rule.

Right now, he has a BAB of +5. So, if I am correct, he would take a -2 penalty on attack, but only receive a +4 to damage, even though he is using a two handed weapon.

To clarify, he should normally get a +6 to damage with a BAB of greater than +4, but since he only has a STR modifier of +1, there is no increase to damage.

This seems wonky... I never thought of the 50% increase of damage to be a component of your STR modifier, but of the additional power attack damage.

Help me get this straight in my head...

Power Attack:
Prerequisites: Str 13, base attack bonus +1.

Benefit: You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls. This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls. This bonus to damage is halved (–50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon.

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How is this a 3rd level spell?

Seems a tad over the top.

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It doesn't look like it since dirty trick is a standard action the feat only allows you to replace your highest BAB attack on your turn.

AoO do not happen on your turn. Your DM could rules otherwise, but I don't think that is the intention of the feat.

Reposition is also a standard action. You can only replace AoO with maneuvers that replace attacks, like trip or disarm.

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I'm not a rules expert (and I routinely have misconceptions on how rules should be), but I kind of think your DM is right.

I've read a bunch of forums in the past and never made the connection that others on this board have made. Since charm animal has a duration, Duration 1 hour/level, it makes sense that after the spell ends the animal returns to its normal state, which could be one mood better with wild empathy.

From there, the animal is no longer afraid (indifferent) and is in a better state to use wild empathy over a given time to increase its mood to allow a pet.

I think of the stories (and probably only stories) of man befriending a wolf. Once they are calm, they stay on the periphery but are interested (indifferent). Later, another wild empathy can be made to increase to friendly, and now the wolf comes into camp from time to time. He could b taught a trick, maybe defends the human form time to time. Helpful is when the animal now sees his as a member of the pack, maybe the alpha.

I know this is conjecture, but I think the rules follow this. I mean, this is a game of fluff and imagination and not just hard locking into rules.

But again... On these boards, I'm wrong all the bloody time, lol.

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What happens when you retrain a class with less skills? Do you loose the points? Do you loose all the points and are allowed to reallocate all the new skills?

I always have trouble with taking away skill points. I would have the same problem with loosing your hit points and forcing a reroll on a smaller die. Although, I can see getting less hearty, but less knowledgeable from training?

That doesn't sit well. Retraining one skill point takes almost as long as retraining a class level, but instead of one skill, you can select either a bunch more (if you think you loose and can reallocate) or you just loose a few...

Could you house rule that on your next level you just do not gain the full allotment, but instead gain the difference? Seems like an easy oversight, but since I have a player asking me right now, it's an issue.


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I have opened half my set and got two breakages. See my post above.

I think some form of glue can help... but I need to know what type.

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I got my shipment yesterday and started to unpack it... a lot of broken pieces, specifically the ones with the plastics posts.

I do not have a lot of experience with minis, but I do own all of the wizkids/pathfinder kits.

How do I get them fixed?

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Happy to have that cleared up in my mind. I had always applied the bleed damage immediately and then on the NPC's turn... I supposed making it double dangerous on the first round.

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When you hit a creature with an attack that has a bleed effect, does the target immediately take the damage and then take damage on their turn, similar to how poison works?

Or do you just announce the target takes bleed and they start taking damage on their turn?

So, for example, my character has IUA and belier's bite. I do 1d6+8+1d4 bleed. Do I roll this entire damage and then on the targets turn they take an addition 1d4?

Or, secondly, do I do 1d6+8 and them on the targets turn they take 1d4 bleed?

The first way is how I always thought it worked. My new GM does it the second way (which is ok), but I'm trying to straighten the rule in my mind.

Edit: fixed some typing errors

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Yeah... I thought this was not legal either...

Can you prove this to me? Not that I think you are wrong, but only so I truly understand it.

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What about tha Tane, like the jabberwoky or the bandersnatch?

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An awakened Giant Owl?

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The inner sea world guide talks about this. People up to 5th level are pretty common, whereas 6-8 are uncommon. Teens are rare...

Something like that.

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How does improved channel allow you to heal and harm at the same time?

There is a domain ability that allows this, but not the feat.

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Xein wrote:
With the mobile hate, sign back in. I waited forever to see it on my S3, because nothing gave the indication that I wasn't signed in. Signed back in, loaded right up.

That did it. I signed out and it loaded fine.

Odd feature.

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Is this link not ipad friendly?

I can't get it to work :(

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

What happens when armor is reduced to zero hit points?

I get the broken condition halves the AC and doubles the armor check penalty, but what about when it's ruined?

Des the armor fall off?

Does it grant a zero AC bonus but still the doubled armor check penalty?

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