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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber. 2,153 posts. 15 reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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I loved this book. It was a fun read and really well done. That said, I noticed one glaring oddity: the city of Dis, located upon Hell's second layer, only has a population of 9.5 million. Normally I don't like arguing about whether or not a fantasy city's population is realistic, but compared to the real world that makes Dis roughly as populated as London (population: 9.7 million, size: 671 square miles) or Lima, Peru (population: 9.7 million, size: 1,000 square miles). Even if Dis is twice or thrice the size of Lima to account for the many Large or larger devils, that still puts it at about 2-3,000 square miles. That's about 45-55 miles on a side, assuming a square city.

I was always under the impression that Hell's second layer was at least partially covered by the sprawling megalopolis of Dis, and that the wastelands beyond its walls only accounted for maybe 75% of the rest. Even just 90% of the rest. Obviously I'm mistaken, but I definitely didn't expect Dis to be a tiny speck on the layer's map. Hell is "immeasurable" in size - why couldn't its population have simply been "innumerable" as well?

This might seem like a really dumb thing to get hung up on, but it really did completely change my idea of this iconic city. Oh well. Still a great book.


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Thomas Seitz wrote:
That's no Avatar, that the Great Old One Tawil at’Umr!

Tawil at’Umr is Yog-Sothoth's avatar. And I'd say Gods help the PCs if he's involved with this AP, but I'm pretty sure even the Gods wouldn't tangle with that dude. It's way too early to be guessing, but maybe ole' Tawil will show up in Continuing the Campaign chapter.


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Thomas Seitz wrote:
Uhm I dunno about that...I mean since when did Kingmaker have a Runelord??

He's referring to Nyrissa being the final villain despite being largely absent from the rest of the plot. But yeah, Alaznist is the BBEG this time around. That or some thing she summons/creates/unleashes. The avatar of Yog-Sothoth is on the mockup of the final adventure after all.


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zergtitan wrote:
In the pathfinder art seminar at Paizocon, they said each cover was going to have a runelord minus Karzoug.

Ah that clears it up, thanks.


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It's odd that Alaznist is on the cover of the first volume. As far as I can tell she is the BBEG, and those characters usually premiere on the final volume when they are actually faced. There are exceptions - Jade Regent, Hell's Vengeance, Strange Aeons - but still. Curious.


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The Gold Sovereign wrote:
I would love to see the Edict Dragon and the Inevitables in an "art preview" blog of this adventure.

The edict looks like a slightly more lustrous brass dragon with bluish wings covered in arcane symbols. The hykariut could easily be mistaken for a beefy iron golem wielding a massive warhammer. The impariut looks like a gray-skinned nobleman (tunic and all) with gold flourishes, a sweet longsword, and seated upon a very cool throne.


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Paladinosaur wrote:
Is the Edict Dragon's art from the same artist that did the other Planar Dragons?

Who is the artist who created the other planar dragons? And who illustrated the edict dragon? If you can answer that, there you are. No idea how to get that info though.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

It's been a long time since I've enjoyed reading an adventure this much. I figured Axis would be fairly sterile - who knew sections of it border on down-the-rabbit-hole levels of zaniness.

May the cockatiels of the Crowntop Coup triumph against that smug monkey priest of Abadar.


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I have a feeling that Thassilon is set for a modern revival. That would be a cool switch up for Pathfinder 2nd edition - Varisia may well have a makeover, wherein the 10,000-year-old kingdom rises again.


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nighttree wrote:
I hope we get more information on just how the whole "Runelord" title works. For a long time I thought it was the basic "assassinate your predecessor" to gain the title....but James stated somewhere that's not exactly the case.....

Krune, last Runelord of sloth, got his position when his predecessor (Runelord Ivarinna) peacefully abdicated and granted her rulership to him. The first Runelord of wrath is still alive to this day, though he clearly lost the title. I'm sure there are more examples. Trickery, blackmail, bribery, nonlethal duels, imprisonment, etc. etc.


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Marco Massoudi wrote:

Timetravel can create new facts.
Also there are seven different Runelords and four players.
And i said they could become the very first Runelords, which are NOT based on the sins you named, but on the seven virtues. ;-)
As far as i lnow we don't know their names yet.

What Rysky said. If you want a first-hand account, check out the final adventure from the Shattered Star AP. The original seven Runelords were bad from the very beginning. Maybe they started out more altruistically, but by the time Xin was an old man, they were all conniving monsters. Sorshen was the first and only Runelord of lust, Xanderghul the first and only Runelord of pride, and the first Runelord of wrath was a guy named Alderpash. Poor Alderpash...


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Paladinosaur wrote:
Generic Villain wrote:
3 Runelords down, 4 to go. I was hoping the BBEG would be Sorshen or Xanderghul, but I have a feeling they're both too powerful for a non-mythic party to take done. Ah well.
3??? Are you counting Alaznist as the 3rd?

Yup. Sloth, greed, and wrath have now been accounted for.


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3 Runelords down, 4 to go. I was hoping the BBEG would be Sorshen or Xanderghul, but I have a feeling they're both too powerful for a non-mythic party to take done. Ah well.


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I know it's a placeholder, but there's a definite pattern when it comes to what Paizo puts on their placeholder art. It's usually at least tangentially related to the adventure itself. For example the adventure prior to this has a kyton on it and involves the PCs going to the Plane of Shadows. The adventure before that has an asura, so I'm guessing asuras are involved. Etc.


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Eternally Lost Boy wrote:
I can see Aeons, some Inevitables, and Hounds of Tindalos being quite annoyed by these chronal antics.

Well, judging by the cover it looks like Yog-Sothoth is involved. If he's on Alaznist's side, she's got nothing to worry about.


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I really liked this adventure, but I have one issue. It's really more of a meta-issue, but still:

Spoiler:

How in the world did Milon Jeroth manage to join the Immaculate Circle's ruling council? Dude's a rakshasa, and the Circle is certainly aware of these fiends (among other shapechangers). One would imagine that, before allowing someone membership into their inner circle, there would at least be a true seeing protocol. This is, after all, a secret society led by at least one very powerful spellcaster and I'm guessing they're a paranoid lot. Realistically, Panivar Lotheed would have outed Milon as a rakshasa within about 5 minutes.

Milon: "I am totally an immortal and by no means an impostor! I, uh, mastered my internal alchemy." Rolls super high on his Bluff/Diplomacy checks, enough to beat everyone's Sense Motive checks.

Panivar: Well I'm convinced, bro is legit. Welcome to the masters of the Immaculate Circle! Just one thing first. We do this for everyone, it's nothing personal." Casts a few divination spells, including true seeing. "Sigh. Another rakshasa. You know too much time to die blah blah."

Oh well. Still a cool villain.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Since my old credit card expired and I received a new one, I encounter the same error each month: an email that is pasted below. Each time I then have to manually choose the same payment method and it works just fine. I also have no issues when ordering PDFs directly - it's only my AP subscription.

I would really like to get back to not having to manually fiddle with every Adventure Path order. Is there a way to make that possible? Because I've tried to fix this on my end multiple times, to no avail. I'm not even sure if I'm still going to get the latest Adventure path.

Much obliged.

P.S. I did try to email customer service directly a few days ago but didn't receive a response. So I'm trying this way.

---------

Dear [Generic_Villain],
We are eager to ship your products, but we need your help. We do not have a payment method on file for this order. Please take a moment to add a payment method to this order at your My Payment Methods page.

If we don't hear from you, or are unable to successfully process your card, by Sat, Jul 21, 2018 order # ***, placed [date], may be canceled.


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Samy wrote:
Generic Villain wrote:
I'm confident that the Paizo employees are above such innocuous pedantry when it comes to designing flagship products like Adventure Paths. Or anything else really. To error is human.

Speaking of innocuous pedantry...it's "to err is human".

"error" is a noun, whereas you want the corresponding verb, which means "to make a mistake". As in "to make a mistake is human". That verb, which corresponds to the noun "error", is "to err".

Thank you, you may leave any tips to the animal protection charity of your choice.

I'm so happy to be in the company of such grammatical luminaries. Truly, I am humbled by your supreme and masterful understanding of the English language. But why are you wasting your time on a message board? Go! Go to the people and correct them, for certainly that must be your calling!

(Was that grammatically correct? Please, I must know. If not, I humbly beg you to correct me with your vast and immaculate linguistic skills)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Steve Geddes wrote:


Paizo are sympathetic to this position. Several people "reserved" various Inner Sea nations and that has resulted in some much-loved campaign setting books. The downside to that approach though is that some areas have been left to languish. They appreciate that there comes a time when it really needs to happen, even if the original "champion" of a region has moved on or got bogged down in other things.

Erik Mona made a post about that recently (complete with educational acronym).

That's an awesome post, thanks. Good to see that the developers have the common sense to do away with a tradition that really is just stagnating the setting. Seriously, what has happened in Nex in the past decade?


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Gorbacz wrote:


If somebody didn't care to spell my name right, I wouldn't feel that much inclined to honour their requests to abandon my long-standing policies and grant their wishes. But that's just me.

I'm confident that the Paizo employees are above such innocuous pedantry when it comes to designing flagship products like Adventure Paths. Or anything else really. To error is human.

Pointless bickering aside, there are a number of nations that haven't been touched on: Molthune, Isger, Druma, Lastwall, Realm of the Mammoth Lords, Nidal, Brevoy, aforementioned Razmir, Hermea, Mediogalit Island, and Thuvia. Any and all of these nations are begging to be fleshed out. And that's not even counting the Darklands, other planets, and other planes. Quite looking forward to the final 1.0 AP going out with a bang.


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Gorbacz wrote:


First, it's been a decade and people still misspell Erik's name.

Second, Paizo's policy is let the nations who have their "custodians" wait until the custodian has time to do them right. They stick to it, so all you can do is wait.

First, I don't commit the spelling of every Paizo employee's name to my long-term memory.

Second, and more to the point, policies can and do change. All the time. This one has been rotting on the vine far too long. Time to get rid of it.


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Steve Geddes wrote:
Razmir is Jason Bulmahn’s pet nation, as I understand things. That probably doesn’t mean he has to be involved, but I’d be surprised if it were the last PF1 AP (it’s presumably being written now and something tells me he’s been kind of busy, of late).

This always bugs me. I know developers have their own pet nations they helped design (Eric Mona with Nex/Geb, Wesley Schneider with Ustalav, Jason Bulmahn with Razmir), but what's the point of having these nations if they're never developed? Luckily Mr. Schneider did an amazing job fleshing out his vision of Ustalav, but as of now, Nex, Geb, and Razmir are blank canvases. They might as well appear on maps with a big old censor bar over them that says "coming soon!" Paizo has plenty of highly capable writers who can easily bring these nations to life. It's been a decade. Time to hand the torch off.


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I hope it's something in Garund. Nex/Geb are begging for an AP and yet, since their conception, have received very little attention. Another cool option would be to reveal the rest of Garund's landmass, as was done with Tian-Xia.

A Razmiran AP would be quite welcome as well. Ole' man Razmir has 3 options at this point: die of old age, die because adventurers stabbed him, or discover immortality like a decent wizard.

I do hope it's not Galt, but Galt is another possibility. Only reason I'd say it's unlikely is because we have a very politics-heavy AP with War For the Crown, and unless the Galt AP (ugh) takes a much different approach, I just don't see it happening.


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According to Occult Mysteries, the Countdown Clocks might reach a special conjunction on 4718 AR - which corresponds to 2018 in real life. The last time such a conjunction happened was 4606 AR, when Aroden died. I know the developers have said no massive cataclysm will usher in 2nd edition (as has been the case with every iteration of, say, Forgotten Realms), but I'm definitely hoping for something special.

Maybe kill off one of the less popular deities? I'm looking at you Alseta the Welcomer.


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So I might be in uncharted waters (for me). Gay guy here and my best friend is straight. We've known each other for many years. However, I've increasingly noticed some signals he's been sending. I'm fairly oblivious about this sort of thing so the fact that I'm noticing at all is indicative. Has anyone ever been in a similar situation? If so, what kind of "tells" are there that an otherwise-straight friend might be interested in becoming something more? Or is this something best quashed in the name of maintaining the friendship, which I value very highly?


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Hey all. So me and my buddy like to watch high-quality (in our opinions) television, and I'm in charge of finding shows. Live action only, and aimed at adults. High drama, deep plotlines, and fleshed out characters are what we're looking for. Does anyone have recommendations?

So far here are some of the best shows we've watched:

Stranger Things
Mr. Robot
Happy!
Preacher
Channel Zero

Thanks for any tips.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I think it's interesting that Ochymua managed to...

:
pickpocket Auberon's phylactery right off him. Considering that veiled masters don't have any ranks in Sleight of Hand, I'm thinking Ochymua might be a rogue/arcane trickster.


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Mothman wrote:
Sounds very familiar. I thought it might be The Relic, but on second thought that didn't end with a helicopter escape (and was set in a museum not a factory).

Heh, I was thinking The Relic too actually. But there were a lot of horror movies made between the 70s-90s, so who knows.


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Alright, he says it's not Leviathan. Drawing a blank here.


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Thomas Seitz wrote:
You sure it wasn't Leviathan?

Good guess. No idea - I'll run it by him. Thanks.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Hey all. A buddy of mine is trying to remember the title of a horror movie he saw as a kid. Here's the description he gave me:

"So there's a movie I remember I watched when I was little can't remember the full movie or it's name. It's a horror movie (somewhere between 70's-90's) I remember it in a factory kind of setting but I can't be too sure of that since I only saw it when I was younger. A group of people are trying to survive a closed setting with either a mutated human or some kind of demonic-like creature or just something along those lines. I remember the last scene they're escaping towards an active helicopter and they think they'e seen the last of it but it caught up to them. They end up kicking it off and it falls to the ground and dies, and you see it's hand with a little stream of blood coming out as the credits start rolling"

I'm a horror fan but his description didn't ring any bells. Does anyone have any ideas? Much obliged.


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If Rovagug escaped and destroyed the world, it wouldn't just be Golarion that vanished. It would be the entire solar system - and actually the galaxy, and probably the Material Plane as a whole. So that's not it. I think the "gap" is Starfinder's overarching mystery, comparable to Pathfinder's "what happened to Aroden." No answers.


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Just for fun, I've decided to try and categorize the nations of Golarion as being either low, medium, or high in magic concentration. This list is completely arbitrary and subject to dispute.

Spoiler:

Belkzen: low
Brevoy: low
Cheliax: high
The Darklands: varies heavily depending on region
Druma: high
Five Kings Mountains: medium
Galt: medium
Geb: high
Irrisen: high
Isger: medium
Jalmeray: high
Katapesh: high
Kyonin: high
Lastwall: medium
Linnorm Kings: low
Mammoth Lords: low
Mana Wastes: low
Mendev: medium
Molthune: medium
Mwangi Expanse: varies heavily depending on region
Nex: high
Nidal: high
Nirmathas: low
Numeria: high
Osirion: high
Qadira: high
Rahadoum: medium
Razmiran: medium
River Kingdoms: low
Sargava: low
The Shackles: medium
Sodden Lands: medium
Steaming Sea: high
Taldor: medium
Thuvia: medium
Ustalav: medium
Worldwound: high
Varisia: medium


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Pathfinder Journals are bits of fiction set in the world of Golarion. Although official, they tend to skew towards lower leveled adventures. I've only read about half of them, but I'd say main characters are roughly 5th to 8th level tops. That is why the magic they are using is very low level. These are the Golarion equivalent of "normal people" - or maybe a step above.

By contrast, characters that actually take part in adventures effectively exist in a different world. By the sixth installment of any given Adventure Path, the player characters are some of the strongest people in Golarion. They are also going up against some of the strongest people in Golarion. For these luminaries, even high-level magic is a disposable resource that is used freely.

That said, certain regions are more "magic rich" than others. Of the examples you gave, Absalom, Cheliax, and certain regions of the Darklands have very high concentrations of magic. There are several reasons, but the easiest explanation is that high-level magic users live in these places in great concentrations, and have for some time. By contrast, the Hold of Belkzen is home to feral bands of orcs. Not exactly the sort of place where your local high-level wizard decides to set up shop.


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Page 140. Second paragraph under the "Selling Treasure" heading.


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Marik Whiterose wrote:
Hopefully he stays buried.

Heh. If it were anyone else I'd call that disrespectful, but... yeah man, spot on. I just know the first time I saw Night, I fell in love. And then I played the Resident Evil games. Zombies became a feature of my young psyche in a big way. I would have dreams/nightmares about them on a weekly basis, and still do pretty frequently. I usually have a shotgun though, so that helps.


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George Romero, creator of Night of the Living Dead and father of the modern zombie movie, died today at 77. The man was a legend and a genius. If there's one thing I respect about him more than any other though, it was that, in 1968, he chose to cast Duane Jones as the male lead of his first and most iconic film. Jones was a black man, and in 1968 black men simply were not allowed to be lead actors. Romero had incredible courage to do what he did, and Jones paved the way for black actors of future generations to finally get their chance to shine.

Plus, Night of the Living Dead was a damn good movie. Thanks for all the memories Mr. Romero. I can honestly say I'm pretty emotional about this. Sigh.


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I think my buddy will be quite happy with his winter oracle. Again, I really appreciate the feedback.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Ah okay found it! Thanks all! (I love these boards).


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Louise Bishop wrote:

Dragon- Cold

Winter

I'm sorry I don't follow. Do you mean there's a winter mystery in Blood of Dragons?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Helping a buddy make a character in a few hours and he wants something ice-related. He's new to the game and we need a healer. Thus, is there any oracle mystery that's ice/winter/cold related? Thanks for any help!

*EDIT: If not I'll just suggest the waves mystery to him. I just could have sworn I saw a winter mystery at some point.


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I'm a little bummed we didn't get some more info on the gutaki/devilfish city of Achom (detailed in From Hells Heart). Seems like an absolutely killer place for an adventure of seven. I would have also liked to see one or two of the noted underwater communities get a formal stat writeup, but I understand that space was at a premium what with all the info, underwater rules, character options, and so forth.

Still though. Achom for the win baby.


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Steve Geddes wrote:
CrystalSeas wrote:
Generic Villain wrote:
CrystalSeas wrote:

Have you ever tried to use a dead vertebrate as a bridge? They're soft and floppy and bend any which way.

Are you speaking from experience? I mean far be it for me to judge...
Check your PMs.
What an intriguing exchange. :)

He was being respectful due to his profession. Nothing untoward or salacious, I assure you.


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Apologies for the link. In lieu of that, I did some research on the German Hessian mercenaries. Based on what I've found, the Hessians were disciplined military organization with structures and hierarchies comparable to proper state-organization militarizes. They were by no means a horde of all-for-one warriors out for personal glory. Were I to guess, the lawfully-inclined Blackjackets share a lot in common with them.

Hessians: The Best Armies Money Could Buy.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

My favorite Empyreal Lord is whichever one ends up gasping out his/her final breaths while impaled on Pazuzu's sword, or even better, hobbled and turned into Dispater's personal footstool for all eternity. Go evil!


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I actually think the best way to make a true god (if for whatever reason you needed to do so), would be to take a CR 30 outsider like Pazuzu, Baalzebul, or Charon, then modify their abilities accordingly. So if you wanted to stat Lamashtu, take Nocticula as your starting template. When you have your CR 30 version of Lamashtu (as she would be as a non-god Demon Lord), proceed to giver her 10 real mythic ranks and maybe a few extra HD. It would put her well outside the reach of pretty much any mortal, and make her head and shoulders above Demon Lords. But she'd still be "weak" enough that, if her archrival Pazuzu was very strategic, he could take her down. Just like Lamashtu took down Curchanus when he was a true god and she wasn't.


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CorvusMask wrote:


But yeah, other thing about it is that if its, former, it essentially makes all demon lords cr 30+ at their home turf. But again not sure if thats how its intended since picking 11 mythic abilities, feats & stat allocation sure is a lot of work .-.

Yeah, tacking 10 mythic ranks onto Deskari would make him CR 34. And until Pathfinder makes rules for statting/becoming/fighting full gods (which they've so far said will never happen), that just wouldn't make sense. Also remember that Deskari is fought on his home plane of the Rasping Rifts. If he really did go Super Saiyan, his CR 34 mythic version would have to be presented. And would likely beat the ever-loving crap out of the PCs unless they were super optimized.

The fact that mythic spell-like abilities weren't picked out like they were in Bestiary 4 is annoying though. If I had to guess, I'd say that any spell that has a mythic equivalent can be... uh, mythicized. I don't have the patience to check if this is accurate with Bestiary 4.


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I always found the description pretty awkward. The problem with granting them the full benefits of a rank 10 mythic creature, is that you'd need to rebuild each Demon Lord in a big way. Pick out mythic feats, decide where stat boosts are allocated, choose or custom craft a suite of mythic abilities, and so forth. The only argument against this possibility would be that we've seen a battle against a Demon Lord on its home plane in a published adventure. If Deskari gained this incredible power boost, his advanced stats would have to be presented. They aren't. Therefore I think the only logical answer is, as you said, treating a Demon Lord as an MR 10 creature (though only for the purposes of spells, magic items, and abilities) and granting it mythic surge. But that's it. A solid power boost, but nothing close to what would be granted from actually gaining 10 ranks of mythic power.

To put it another way, I would treat the boost of a Demon Lord on its home plane the same way as mythic simple templates; they technically have a mythic rank, but not the mythic subtype, and thus not the full benefits that would go along with it.


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CrystalSeas wrote:

Have you ever tried to use a dead vertebrate as a bridge? They're soft and floppy and bend any which way.

Are you speaking from experience? I mean far be it for me to judge...


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Samy wrote:
(I'm not sure I'd go as far as calling it 'dumb' -- that's IMO needlessly offensive and doesn't make anyone want to look for a solution for you)

Upon reflection, you are correct. Too late to edit the post though. Apologies.

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