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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game Subscriber. 1,559 posts. 11 reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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James Jacobs wrote:


From Beyond

That was my first exposure to Lovecraft! I was a kid and even though I didn't get it entirely, I knew I needed more. Started a lifetime obsession after I saw "based on a story by..." in the credits.

Anyway, question:

There's a decent-sized mountain range in western Garund called the Napsune Mountains. As far as I can tell they haven't been fleshed out at all. What are they likely? Particularly the section that makes up the eastern border of the Sodden Lands - and even more specifically, the region where Lirgeni astronomers once constructed their observatories.

Specifically, what kind of elevation do they reach (roughly)? Are they snow-capped like Africa's Atlas Mountains, or more of a warm, forested sort? There's an illustration of a Lirgeni observatory (the Dim Gate) in Lost Kingdoms that suggests the latter, but maybe that was built on a lower slope...

Thanks as always.


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Are psychic magic-users common among Night Heralds? How about bards?

Does the Dominion of the Black have any psychic-using races?

I ask because the Androsphinx of Zukebri is like a psychic beacon, and I'm sure the Dominion stuck it there for a reason.

Thanks!


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The conflict between Isger and Molthune. Unfortunately there's little info on either country. Lots of room for a GM to flesh things out on their own terms.

The perpetual upheaval of Galt's Red Revolution. Also a lack of info.

The Land of Linnorm Kings vs. the White Witches of Irrisen - though that's a very not-Renaissance place.

An orc/human conflict occurring between Belkzen and either Lastwall or Ustalav.


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Mavrickindigo wrote:

Has anyone ever made a compendium of stats for non-statted NPCs? You know, the ones who are mentioned in the lore books and adventures?

Nope, you'll have to do that work yourself. It's the burden we GMs bear. You could re-skin some of the NPCs from the Serpent's Skull adventure path, particularly the high-level cleric fought at the end of the final adventure, Sanctum of the Serpent God. I think he's about the power level of the high-priestess serving Aashaq.

Also you might want to mention that the dragon you're talking about is Aashaq the Annihilator from Dragons Unleashed (I'm assuming). Paizo has put out such a huge volume of work that being specific is pretty much a necessity.


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Dragon78 wrote:
August release?! I could have sworn it said July when it was announced.

It most likely was, because now there's no Campaign Setting coming out in July. Releases get pushed back frequently enough. Not as frequently as they used to though, which is nice.


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"creatures from... the dark places beyond the stars."

They just had to put that in the description. Now I'll be yearning for this for the next 5-6 months. Paizo can be a cruel mistress...


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So I've finished statting a brain ooze with 12 levels of investigator and the spiritualist archetype. Why? Because...

Useless fluff:

It was the preserved brain of a centuries-dead cultist, brought back to pseudo-life with icky magic. I chose investigator to make it an adviser-type to the big-bad, and spiritualist because that replaced the investigator's alchemy ability (which a brain ooze can't use). Retroactively, I made up some stuff that its long time in suspended animation allows it to be close to the spirit world and blah blah etc.

Really, I just wanted to add non-spellcasting class levels to a brain ooze.

Anyway, any advice on making a spiritualist that can actually do damage? Mostly looking for feat combinations, because equipment-wise floating brains are limited in what they can hold (other than ioun stones I guess). I've already finished its stats, but for a CR 14 creature I'm underwhelmed. Willing to change up any of the following:

Stats:

Investigator Talents: Amazing Inspiration, Effortless Aid, Eidetic Recollection, Quick Study, Sickening Offensive

Str: 4, Dex: 23, Con: 18, Int: 19, Wis: 16, Cha: 18

Skills: Acrobatics +27, Bluff +23, Diplomacy +20, Fly +34, Knowledge (arcana) +19, Knowledge (religion) +19, Knowledge (history) +19, Knowledge (geography) +19, Perception +23, Sense Motive +22, Spellcraft +25, Stealth +34

Feats: Ability Focus (neural pulse), Combat Casting, Defensive Combat Training, Dodge, Extra Inspiration, Flyby Attack, Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Attack (tentacle), Mobility, Strike Back, Weapon Finesse


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"...this player-friendly volume contains everything you need to transform your adventurer into a herald of forces benign or malevolent, divine or alien."

Could Old Cultists and Night Heralds finally get some lovin'?


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Blakmane wrote:


Bleed effects = bleed damage of any sort, HP or attribute. It requires some super convoluted reading of that passage to reach any other conclusion.

Yeah that was more or less my interpretation. Easiest answer = best answer. Still, they could've made it a bit more clear. Something like "At 15th level, a scarred rager can ignore all damage from 1 bleed effect each round, including hit point and ability damage."


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Here is the text of the scarred rager's scarification ability:

Scarification (Ex): At 3rd level, a scarred rager can ignore 1 point of bleed damage per round. This amount increases by 1 every three levels beyond 3rd. At 15th level, a scarred rager can ignore 1 bleed effect each round. This ability replaces trap sense.

My question concerns the italicized portion. How does everyone else read this? What is a bleed effect exactly? For example, at 15th level the rager can shrug off 5 points of bleed damage a round. Say he gets sneak attacked by an 11th-level rogue with the bleeding attack talent, which deals 6 points of bleed damage. Does he take 1 point of bleed damage, or shrug it off entirely because it's the first bleed effect he's targeted with that round?

Or does bleed effect refer to an effect that deals non-hit point bleed damage? For example, a few creatures like the scarlet walker (Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition) deal ability damage which is explicitly called out as "a bleed effect."


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No, I love the Advanced Class Guide. But maybe Occult Adventures will doom Pathfinder? Or whatever big hardcover comes after that? Or maybe Advanced Player's Guide was actually the end. Or wait, I meant Ultimate Magic. Ultimate Combat?

I'm pretty sure every hardcover has somehow been heralded as "the beginning of the end" for Pathfinder.


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Sorry if this question has already been answered. I've been looking through the message boards to no avail.

The kineticist's base psychic blast ability is a spell-like ability. What level spell is it treated as? I'm talking the plain old blast, no wild talents at all. Would it be 1st level? Or scale with the kineticist's level? (For example: spell level = 1/2 kineticist's class level, maximum 9th level). This is pretty important for determining how the base kinetic blast interacts with spells like globe of invulnerability.


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Have Unity tell the PCs off-offhandedly how fat, ugly, and adopted they are. And that's terrible.


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Darius Darrenbar wrote:

I kinda figured that the majority of Unity's faithful would consist mostly of members of the Technic League deployed outside of Numeria for whatever reason.

You're certainly free to tweak the story, but as written, I don't think the Technic League would ever willingly submit to Unity. If you read Palace of Fallen Stars and The Divinity Drive closely, it's clear that the vast majority of the League have no idea that Unity even exists. Furthermore, I believe it's stated in Palace of Fallen Stars that, if it became known that Ozmyn Zaidow was a pawn of an artificial intelligence, the rest of his organization would turn on him in an instant.

Remember: the Technic League is all about mastering technology, not the other way around.

There are exceptions. Ozymn of course, as well as the were-dinosaur Geetan Prosser. Still though, these are outliers.

Darius Darrenbar wrote:


Likewise androids are another logical choice from a technological standpoint since it could always be justified with either AI broadcasting a signal and tuning into the right frequency of "the chosen few." Actually that idea would work pretty well for an android oracle with the haunted or tongues curse or possessed oracle archetype.

From there it's just a matter of faith spreading around normally.

This makes much more sense to me than the Technic League. After all, Unity really is The Creator of most modern androids. It makes sense that they'd view him with reverence.

Based on the Continuing the Campaign article in The Divinity Drive though, I don't know if Unity's faith can ever spread "normally." No specific rules are given, but it seems to me that faith in Unity is more like a computer virus than proper supplication. Unity broadcasts his mind-bug into a future priest, who then somehow transmits that same bug to whomever he or she can. To quote: "Those who succumb aren’t true worshipers of the Iron God, though they certainly act the part in
helping to further spread its influence."

I think Unity is so dangerous because he isn't human, or alive, or emotional. He can't comprehend things like faith, reverence, or genuine worship. To him a worshiper is a slave that does his will; anything less than total subservience to his every whim would be treated as a mistake in need of correcting. Not even lawful evil gods like Asmodeus or Zon-Kuthon are this obsessive about micro-managing their faithful.

On the other hand you have Hellion, a chaotic evil godling who clearly has much different priorities than Unity. Hellion has the madness domain, so right off the bat he's obviously not all there. At the same time though, he seems much more like a proper god, because his followers come to him out of respect. Or because they want something from him. Or they fear him. In other words, pretty standard reasons to pray at the altar of a chaotic evil god.


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Cthulhudrew wrote:
Yakman wrote:
How are these fluids still leaking, etc.?
They may not (I'd argue have not) have been leaking for the entire period of time. More than likely, many of these breakdowns and leaks are relatively recent- the inevitable result of time and decay on even super-strong and futuristic compounds and metals. Reactors that finally give out, etc.

I was thinking about the fluids. (What a weird sentence). While Cthulhudrew's idea is a perfectly reasonable one, consider this: Divinity, along with Androffan technology in general, does a lot of auto-recycling. Robots process new bullets out of scrap metal, water scrubbers provide fresh water throughout Divinity, etc.

What if the assorted ship pieces throughout the land include automated systems that synthesize new Numerian fluids from whatever happens to be in the environment? That could explain how the're still dripping after all this time. And because those same systems have started to degrade, coupled with the fact that they are forced to make due with whatever material is nearby, it's no surprise that there's a huge variability in what the fluids do when you (ugh) drink them.


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Dave Justus wrote:


Snip.

I don't necessarily disagree with anything you've said, but it comes back to a faulty rule that states "all oozes are blind and have blindsight 60 ft." Which is clearly not the case. I shouldn't have to guess what the developers had in mind when looking at a creature's statistics, especially when we're talking about something as major as the difference between blindsense and blindsight. This isn't a few misplaced skill points in other words, and it's an error that spans 3 of the 4 Bestiaries (and who knows how many oozes statted up in supplements).

Yes I know GM fiat and common sense. But an error is an error, even if it's a nitpicky one.


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Paulicus wrote:

Creatures don't always follow their types stat-blocks to the letter (for example, not all devils are immune to fire).

It does seem confusing when some of them don't have any listed senses though.

As far as I know, when a creature doesn't follow its "type," that fact is called out in the stat block.

And remember: although the slime mold is an extreme example, having blindsense alone isn't much better. I seriously doubt any creature is meant to suffer a 50% miss chance on all of its attacks by design. But the colour out of space, freezing flow, immortal ichor, and slithering tracker all do.


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I have some major confusion about oozes and their (lack of) vision. The problem all starts with one of the ooze traits:

Blind (but have the blindsight special quality), with immunity to gaze attacks, illusions, visual effects, and other attack forms that rely on sight.

This would be fine if every ooze followed this blanket rule. But many don't. For example:

Oozes:

Colour Out of Space (Bestiary 4): Has blindsense instead of blindsight.

Freezing Flow (Bestiary 4): Has blindsense instead of blindsight.

Immortal Ichor (Bestiary 4): Has blindsense instead of blindsight.

Shoggoth (Bestiary): Clearly not blind despite having ooze traits, because it also has all-around vision, darkvision, low-light vision, and tons of eyes on its illustration. It has tremorsense, but no blindsight. The shoggoth has ooze traits however, so it is still technically blind.

Slime Ooze (Bestiary 2): This poor fellow has nothing. No blindsight, or even blindsense.

Slithering Tracker (Bestiary 2): Has blindsense instead of blindsight. Illustration shows the slithering tracker with eyes, though as with the shoggoth, its ooze traits mean it too is blind.

I see 3 problems here. First, we have two oozes (shoggoth and slithering tracker) whose ability to see is ambiguous. Are both blind? I'd say the shoggoth clearly is not, while the slitering tracker probably is, but... who knows?

Second, a creature lacking vision but with blindsense is still at a massive disadvantage. There's a reason the (often-ignored) ooze traits claimed that all oozes have blindsight instead. To compare the two abilities:

Blindsight and Blindsense:

Blindsense (Ex) Using nonvisual senses, such as acute smell or hearing, a creature with blindsense notices things it cannot see. The creature usually does not need to make Perception checks to pinpoint the location of a creature within range of its blindsense ability, provided that it has line of effect to that creature. Any opponent the creature cannot see still has total concealment against the creature with blindsense, and the creature still has the normal miss chance when attacking foes that have concealment. Visibility still affects the movement of a creature with blindsense. A creature with blindsense is still denied its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class against attacks from creatures it cannot see.

Blindsight (Ex) This ability is similar to blindsense, but is far more discerning. Using nonvisual senses, such as sensitivity to vibrations, keen smell, acute hearing, or echolocation, a creature with blindsight maneuvers and fights as well as a sighted creature. Invisibility, darkness, and most kinds of concealment are irrelevant, though the creature must have line of effect to a creature or object to discern that creature or object. The ability's range is specified in the creature's descriptive text. The creature usually does not need to make Perception checks to notice creatures within range of its blindsight ability. Unless noted otherwise, blindsight is continuous, and the creature need do nothing to use it. Some forms of blindsight, however, must be triggered as a free action. If so, this is noted in the creature's description. If a creature must trigger its blindsight ability, the creature gains the benefits of blindsight only during its turn.

In short: a blind creature with blindsense alone treats all other creatures as if they had total concealment. That means every time a colour out of space, freezing flow, immortal ichor, or slithering tracker attempts to attack, it has a flat 50% chance of automatically missing.

Third, a slime ooze is screwed. It is utterly helpless unless a character stands next to it and pokes it with a stick, and even then it still has a 50% chance to miss an attack against its tormentor.

POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS?
As of now, I can see see only one that could easily untangle this mess. Remove the "Blind (but have the blindsight special quality)" line from ooze traits, then individually note in each ooze creature's statistics whether or not it is blind. This makes the most sense to me. Even plants don't have a "blind" blanket rule, and how many plants do you know that can see? Even fantastical ones?

Another possibility would be to actually follow the "blind but with blindsight" rule, meaning that the stat blocks of past oozes who have blindsense (or nothing at all - poor, poor slime mold) would need to be amended. Still though, that leaves the shoggoth as an outlier.


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I recall reading James Jacobs mention that, in retrospect, they should have had Starfall (ie, the apocalypse that wiped out Azlant/Thassilon) occur only a few thousand years ago. However, when the Pathfinder campaign setting was first being developed, the authors wanted to make sure there was plenty of wiggle-room in its time line. The same logic may have applied to the Rain of Stars in Numeria.

I agree that the massive stretch of time is a bit tough to believe. We're talking a period equivalent to the real-world beginning of human civilization all the way to the modern day. By all rights, the remains of the ship that crashed into Numeria should have been picked over a thousandfold, and mostly reclaimed by nature.

As for the bulk of Silver Mountain not yet being explored: that's not entirely true. There are Pathfinders and past Technic League captains (most mentioned in Divinity Drive) who have made it quite deep, and some of the latter ended up choosing to live in their new found domains instead of going back to Numeria. Other than that, Silver Mountain is a very high-level and dangerous place. It's comparable to equally old, dangerous, and still unexplored ruins like Thassilon's Hollow Mountain or Xin-Shalast.


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Hey everyone. I'm a huge fan of the Dark Tapestry and Dominion of the Black, and have been working on a campaign with those elements for a while now. I know all about "traditional" Dark Tapestry/Dominion monsters; your neh-thalggus, flying polyps, shantaks, crazed cultists, etc. What I need some help with is coming up with some non-traditional baddies. Not silly mind you - just completely unexpected.

I'm mostly looking for monsters with either templates, class levels, or variants, but anything works really.

So far here are some of my ideas:

-A slithering tracker (Bestiary 2) with levels of rogue and assassin. The big bad's sticky little problem-solver.

-A baku (Bestiary 3) with the broken soul template (Bestiary 4). Bakus are normally shy creatures that feed on dreams, but this one was exposed to countless alien minds. The broken soul template was entirely the result of mental trauma, so it doesn't have the mutilated look.

-A brain ooze (Bestiary 3) with levels of kineticist (Occult Adventures playtest). Focuses on air. I've been wanting to add levels to a brain ooze for ages, and this is the first time a class actually makes sense.

-An awakened/intelligent alchemical golem (Bestiary 2) called a "brain golem." Not too creative, but still...

-An alraune (Bestiary 3) from the planet Aucturn. Not entirely sure how to do her. Perhaps the fungal template (Bestiary 4) or alien template (from Legendary Games' Beyond the Void).

-The "Dark Matter Ooze," a variant plasma ooze (Bestiary 3) with an Intelligence score and dark matter attacks instead of plasma. Basically, cold and electricity rather than fire and electricity. Also, I stole this wholesale from the adventure

spoiler:
Pyramid of the Sky Pharaoh.


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Acolyte of Mushu wrote:


Ditto, and any other new robots mentioned please.

Spoiler:
As Demiurge noted, the pulsepounder is a robotofied cannon golem. Stats are mostly identical to the golem, except it has the robot subtype (first introduced in Inner Sea Bestiary, and has popped up a few times since then). As a result, it has an Intelligence score, skills, and feats. Instead of a cannon, the pulsepounder has a big ole' blaster in its chest. I don't have the PDF in front of me, but it's a darn cool variant monster.

The "clocktopus" is a repair drone. It's an animated object with the robot subtype, though its stats and abilities are novel enough that it's pretty much a brand new creature. Its purpose is to repair other robots, though it can throw down if necessary.

There's a robot whose purpose is to make contact with primitive (non-technologically advanced) cultures. The name escapes me. They're nothing too interesting, but are designed to look angelic. This fits in nicely with Unity's delusion that he is, in fact, a celestial messiah.

The director robot is a humanoid/tank centaur (tankotaur?) that directs other robots. Which you might have surmised from the name. They remind me a bit of higher end modrons, in that they can take over the programming of their lessers. It's implied that Unity uses director robots to indirectly keep tabs on the robotic soldiers that he lends out to the Technic League. Unity's reach ends at Silver Mountain, so the directors are his proxies.


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Kalindlara wrote:


To the above poster asking about timelines: according to Numeria, Land of Fallen Stars, the Rain of Stars took place in -4363. The -3116 date is when a nameless Kellid chieftain set off a massive blast that wiped out his tribe, causing the remaining tribes to develop their taboos against technology.

Woops, my bad - good catch. So what I should have said was:

Earthfall was -5293 AR (10,008 years ago). Numeria's Rain of Stars was -4363 AR (9,078 years ago). So there were 930 years between the two events.


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RCM wrote:

May I ask 2 questions, but how long after Earth Fall did the Divinity smash into Numeria.

Secondly what exactly enraged the old Androffa/Droffan deities (the Shoal) to lead them wipe out the Androffans ancient high-tech civilization.

Earthfall was -5293 AR (10,007 years ago). Numeria's Rain of Stars was -3116 AR (7,830 years ago). So there were 2,177 years between the two events.

Spoiler:
The exact cause of the Shoal wiping out Androffa's people isn't stated. As much as I can tell, the people turned away from their gods long ago and towards technology. Eventually some of the gods decided to have a revival on Androffan, and this ultimately lead some of them to wiping that planet's civilizations out. What happened in between the gods' return and their apocalyptic wrath? Unknown, unless I missed something.


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KaiserBruno wrote:
Any info on Androffa? I have this on its way but I cant hold back my hunger for lore.

No.

...

Seriously, next to nothing. James Jacobs has revealed far more about Androffa on the messageboards than the text that appears in this adventure. To put it another way, that planet is pretty much entirely incidental to the Iron Gods AP.

Try this (spoilers)

Or this (also spoilers)


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Ayanzo wrote:

Oh snap. Did we just get a confirmation?

Nah, he has said there are lots of potential AP plots that may eventually be written. Off the top of my head: aboleths. Paizo saves all official AP announcements for conventions.


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The Overlord Robot should have the cruelty facet, not the intuition facet. Cruelty is what gives it sneak attack.

Also, this adventure should have had more Dominion of the Black stuff. But I guess that's just an opinion.


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Let me just add my voice to the choir singing the praises of this adventure. Definitely the best AP capstone since Sound of a Thousand Screams. My only disappointment was that

Spoiler:
The Dominion of the Black didn't show up in a greater capacity. Though I got a distinct Dominion vibe from the incredibly eerie Quiet Garden, which was, after all, developed with neh-thalggu technology.

I also loved

Spoiler:
Choek the giant id ooze. Was its illustration an Abyss (1989 film) reference?


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RCM wrote:
Not all of us have gotten the final book yet, so please don't spoil it too much!

There's a spoiler tag. That's usually indicative of spoilers, so probably best to avoid this thread if you don't want those.

Anyway, here's my take.

Since Golarion is partially based on JJ's own campaign world (Androffa), and both experienced apocalypses roughly around the same time, I think the best approach would be to say that Androffans know as much about their ancient ancestors as Golarions do Thassilon and Azlant. Which is to say: most people have no idea whatsoever, a few have heard rumors, and a very small group - mostly scholars, sages, and adventurers - know what really happened.

There are mysterious ruins like Silver Mount on Androffa, and these sites would be treated exactly like Golarions treat Hollow Mountain or Xin-Shalast: forbidden, mysterious, cursed, and packed with treasure.

Yes, there are most definitely androids. Think of it this way: there are androids in Golarion, and (most?) all of them came from a few Androffan ships that crashed 9,000 years ago. Androffa, on the other hand, is an entire world that was most likely once riddled with technological wonders. It stands to reason that the number of androids on that planet would be vastly higher than those on Golarion, probably by several orders of magnitude.

How could your PCs get to Androffa? Well, I reckon they'd need to find a Stargate hidden somewhere in one of Numeria's ruins. Or find an archmage capable of casting interplanetary teleport, and ask him/her very nicely - probably requiring a pretty lengthy adventure for the favor. Or play through Iron Gods, then re-purpose the Divinity Drive's wormhole creating power to send them straight back to the ship's homeworld.


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Really hoping this has a bit more Dominion of the Black stuff. Perhaps a high-CR alien lord in the Continuing the Campaign section?


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Blackfingers wrote:
Am I correct in assuming that the robot on the front is** spoiler omitted **

Of course...


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Nobility = Politics
Nature = Science
Planes = Metaphysics


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HenshinFanatic wrote:
Generic Villain wrote:
*snip*
Getting away from that debate though, why call religious beliefs silly? Ignoring differences between my branch of Christianity and theirs, how is it silly to believe that you should love others whether they are kind to you or not? That life is precious and should be protected? Just because people aren't perfect doesn't mean they should stop aspiring to the higher ideals that religion provides.

You're right, "silly" was absolutely inappropriate. I was attempting to remain civil, but the reality is, the beliefs of these parents are appalling, heinous, disgusting, and various other iterations of bad. Because of their beliefs, they refused to give their child the love that she desperately needed. Their brand of Christianity is not "do unto others as you would have others do unto you." It's "I'm pretty sure I hate all the correct people, right God?"

My statement about the abortion lawn ornaments was an illustration of the judgmental nature of people in this area. So quick to take the hardest decisions that many young women have to make, and transform it into ghoulish propaganda. So quick to decide that being queer ain't right with God.

If there is a Hell (there isn't), these people will be in good company there.


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James Jacobs wrote:

Not really. Maybe Haggenti, the demon lord of Alchemy, or perhaps Socothbenoth, the demon lord of taboo, or even Jubilex. There's no specific evil deity of drunkenness really. Maybe that's Bulmhan's influence on the game.... ;-P

In Children of the Void there's a story about Salicotal, a Duke of Hell interested in "the temptations of wine." He challenged Cayden to battle, and was promptly beaten to death with his own freshly torn off wings. Maybe he'll make a comeback? Assuming he finds those wings...

Anyway, hey James - I have some questions about intellect devourers. What is it like for the devourer who is inhabiting a host body? Does the devourer literally assume the creature's perspective, consciousness, etc., seeing out of the host's eyes, controlling the host's limbs as if they were the its own? Or is the devourer only indirectly in control, like the pilot of a large machine? Or maybe it's like a mind-meld, where the devourer is able to tap into the creature's (freshly eaten) brain, memories, skills, etc., while still retaining individuality?

How does it feel for a devourer controlling a host with animal-like intelligence? A host with Intelligence vastly higher than the devourer's own?

Thanks for any insights!


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KSF wrote:

By now, I'm sure many of you have heard about the suicide of trans teen, Leelah Acorn. For those who haven't, this is worth a read.

Heartbreaking. Like I said when I posted about this on facebook, 2014 was a good year for the advancement of trans rights and acceptance, but there is still far to go.

I live in Kings Mills and went to the Kings school district. It is an utterly mediocre school designed entirely to cater to the average, with very little in the way of assistance for anyone who dares not squeeze into the proper demographic.

The community itself is intensely conservative, where you're either "good folks like us" or "one of them." There's a Baptist church on every street corner, with more than a few decorating their lawns with visual representations of how many abortions have occurred.

In short, this is an absolutely hellish place to be transgendered. Alas, all it would have taken for Leelah to survive - and prosper - is a supportive family. Nothing is more important than a safe place to recuperate after enduring this crap hole world's slings and arrows. But of course, "good folks" like Leelah's parents couldn't allow their child's well-being to get in the way of their ridiculous little religious notions. Perish the thought.

Screw Kings Mills and the vast majority of people in it.


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I wasn't really expecting anyone to answer this because the question's kind of weirdly complicated. Fortunately, after a little work I figured out the formula for those rings:

(levels of summoned creatures * 100) + (cost of single use/day spell)

For example, the ring of summoning affinity (angel) adds one creature to the 3rd-level summon monster list, one 7th-level creature, and one 8th-level creature. Added up, that's 18 levels worth of creatures, which equals 1,800 gp.

The ring also allows the use of summon monster III once per day. According to the magic item creation rules (pg. 550 of the Core Rulebook), that equals 5,400 gp.*

Add the two results together, and you get the ring's final cost of 7,200 gp.

*The formula for this is (1,800 gp * spell level [3] * caster level [5])/5.


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So here's the item:

.

Robe of Black Vistas
Aura: Moderate conjuration; CL: 9th
Slot: Body; Price: ****** gp; Weight: 1 pound

This silken robe is colored at the bottom with the vibrant hues of sunset, yet as the eye travels upward, these colors darken to deep purple, finally culminating in a midnight black hood. If the wearer can cast summon monster spells, the wearer adds cerebric fungus to the 4th-level list of monsters he can summon with those spells, adds lunarma to the 5th-level list, adds ugothokra to the 6th-level list, adds yangethe to the 7th-level list, and adds neshmaal to the 9th-level list.

Requirements: Craft Wondrous Item, summon monster IV; Cost: ****** gp

.

Any idea what it's price should be? I modeled it off of the various rings of natural attunement/summoning affinity from Advanced Class Guide. Some factors:

-It's a robe, not a ring. This should probably make it cost about 20% more than an equivalent ring.
-Unlike the assorted rings, the robe does NOT allow the wearer to cast summon monster III once per day. This should reduce its cost by... what, maybe 20%?
-Unlike the rings of summoning affinity, the robe allows its wearer to summon aberrations and plants in addition to outsiders. I'm not sure how much this should increase its price.

Anyone have any thoughts? I know I'm being real nitpicky trying to add up all these factors, and should probably just make it cost about 10,000 gp - comparable to the ring of natural summoning affinity (daemon), which adds far more options than my robe.


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That's the second time I've done that. The messageboard homepage is a bit tough to navigate. Thanks though.


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So here's the item:

Robe of Black Vistas:

Aura: Moderate conjuration; CL: 9th
Slot: Body; Price: ****** gp; Weight: 1 pound

This silken robe is colored at the bottom with the vibrant hues of sunset, yet as the eye travels upward, these colors darken to deep purple, finally culminating in a midnight black hood. If the wearer can cast summon monster spells, the wearer adds cerebric fungus to the 4th-level list of monsters he can summon with those spells, adds lunarma to the 5th-level list, adds ugothokra to the 6th-level list, adds yangethe to the 7th-level list, and adds neshmaal to the 9th-level list.

Requirements: Craft Wondrous Item, summon monster IV; Cost: ****** gp

Any idea what it's price should be? I modeled it off of the various rings of natural attunement/summoning affinity from Advanced Class Guide. Some factors:

-It's a robe, not a ring. This should probably make it cost about 20% more than an equivalent ring.
-Unlike the assorted rings, the robe does NOT allow the wearer to cast summon monster III once per day. This should reduce its cost by... what, maybe 20%?
-Unlike the rings of summoning affinity, the robe allows its wearer to summon aberrations and plants in addition to outsiders. I'm not sure how much this should increase its price.

Anyone have any thoughts? I know I'm being real nitpicky trying to add up all these factors, and should probably just make it cost about 10,000 gp - comparable to the ring of natural summoning affinity (daemon), which adds far more options than my robe.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Claxon wrote:


So? OMG I can't make this character as one specific class! The world is coming to an end! We must change the rules!

That was my first thought too, though with way less snark. No, the Pathfinder ruleset cannot make an exact copy of every sort of character in history or fiction, and from my perspective, that's a feature rather than a bug. Games are defined as much by their limits as their possibilities. I mean I'd love to play a game of chess where I could win by just hurling expired produce at my opponent until s/he concedes, but that might detract somewhat from the nuances of chess.

LazarX wrote:


Monks are lawful because they are created in monasteries. If you abide from a code you get from an organisaiton without, rather than within your own principles, then you're lawful.

It's also basically tradiion handed down through four editions of the game. The man you really need to ask that question will need to be reached via a Ouija board or seance.

I agree with your second statement much more than your first. You could easily have a monastic tradition of rogues, fighters, wizards, even barbarians if you wanted to stretch the concept, but that doesn't imply they'd all be lawful. Most of them? Sure, but there's always outliers.


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Scythia wrote:


I'm glad they got rid of the challenge for rank (by level) aspects of the classes that had them. It got silly thinking that every PC was ultimately destined to be head (class name).

A vestige still remains in the Green Faith Acolyte prestige class from Paths of Prestige. To achieve levels 8-10 in that class, the character needs to challenge the regional archdruid, great druid, and grand druid, respectively.

I'm also glad there's no "must beat up another character of a rank higher than you to advance in level" restriction on the base classes, but I kind of like the option to still exist. I still have fond memories of Jaheira challenging the local Shadow Druid boss in Baldur's Gate 2. That was an optional side quest though, and Jaheira didn't have to complete it to increase her druid level.

Remember when only non-humans could multiclass? Man, earlier editions loved arbitrary nonsense.


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Rynjin wrote:


Man I must have missed that Lawful only restriction on the Ninja class then.
Generic Villain wrote:


Also, just remembered that ninjas get ki. So there goes that theory.


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At the risk of further devolving the thread into an alignment debate...

Again, in Pathfinder alignment really is a living, breathing thing. Gods, demigods, empyreal lords, the Four Horsemen, etc., are incarnations of pure alignment. Alignment manifests in real, tangible ways. You've got cursed helmets whose sole purpose is to change it, swords that hurt bad people worse than good people, spells that literally measure your soul and identify you accordingly, and so on.

So the idea that only people of a certain alignment can enter certain careers, shouldn't really be surprising. But then, if I'm reading people's statements correctly (and I'm very tired right now so blah), the real complaint is the seemingly arbitrary restrictions that alignment-limited classes like monk and paladin place.

But think of it this way. Wizards can't wear armor without burning a lot of feats, barbarians can't cast spells, [third example here]. Those are all concrete limits that draw far less criticism than alignment restrictions. But again, if we accept that alignment is as real in Pathfinder as a suit of armor or a cast spell, then it really shouldn't be such a deal breaker. It helps to distinguish classes in the same manner as limited weapon proficiencies, class skills, and hit dice.


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StabbittyDoom wrote:


It all makes sense if you look at it like this: Legacy. Then Paizo goes "wait, that sucks" and makes all new classes follow a smaller set of alignment restriction (Druidic + Divine only).

Druidic + Divine only? Come again?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Perhaps the monk redo in Unchained will lose this particular legacy? The lawful never bothered me much, but I can see why some would find it annoying.

There is a barbarian-turned-monk in the Council of Thieves AP. And didn't Eberron have something similar? Like monks who went nuts and switched to barbarian? I never got into that setting, so I might be misremembering.


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p-sto wrote:
If it was the ki then monks would lose their ki pool if they lose their lawful alignment. It seems like it would be better interpreted as maintaining the self-mastery to achieve that next level of skill.

Good point. Interestingly barbarians lose their ability to rage if lawful, but monks keep their goodies. I will echo Eryx_UK's thoughts that a monk's powers require a disciplined mind, though yes, in that case you'd think they'd lose most of their powers should they stop being lawful. At least the supernatural stuff.

Also, just remembered that ninjas get ki. So there goes that theory.


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It's the ki. The martial artist archetype removes alignment restrictions, but also lacks ki. Why is ki lawful? Dunno. If I were to guess, I'd say, to channel ki, one has to be in a certain state of mind. Just as paladins need to be LG to use their powers, and barbarians can't be lawful to utilize rage.

In the Pathfinder world, alignment isn't just a vague abstraction - it has literal, real-world incarnations. You could think of it this way: the essence of good is sacred bonuses; the essence of evil is profane bonuses; the essence of law if ki; the essence of chaos is rage; and neutral doesn't get anything because screw 'em for being neutral (or I guess something to do with nature).


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Although I didn't like 3.5's Magic Item Compendium for a few reasons*, I did really appreciate how every item was given an "activation" line indicating how to... well, activate it. Very useful.

*It was magic item porn. Just vulgar, heaving loads of magic items all rubbing up on each other.


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Angstspawn wrote:


God is definitely a trickster!

That, or human intelligence is a fluke that developed over a period of hundreds of thousands of years, without any concept of good or bad, only emerging because it happened to be the best for the species at that moment in history (and through a healthy dose of sheer chance). Not being snarky either - whether viewed through the lens of faith or evolutionary science, human intelligence clearly has both major advantages and potentially devastating drawbacks.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Maybe we can agree on this: the magic of the human brain lies in some barely-understood synergy occurring among neurons, dendrites, synapses, NTs, white matter, gray matter, and parts of the spinal cord, the likes of which human technology will probably never be able to fully replicate - at least not for a very, very, very long time.


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Krensky wrote:

I'd argue that you're being too cynical.

But you're probably not.

Corporations took patents out on DNA. Yes, the Supreme Court kind of sort of told them they couldn't, but still gave them a lot of wiggle room. When it comes to big business, it is impossible to be cynical.

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