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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber. 1,940 posts. 14 reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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Wrath wrote:

Actually I think if they describe him as totally devoid of all human emotions, then they really did need that extra fact. The information provided in the villains text allows DMs to make calls on what can and can't work.

However, to make things easier, when designing a villain like the one I was describing above, I guess you can just add the Ex ability (immune to all emotional effects) or some such thing. Perfectly fine for DM call really.

Not even all that powerful really. There's so many more ways to kill a baddy.

I think it's fine for a GM to say "This villain is incapable of human emotions, and is immune to all emotion-based effects as a result." Or really, make him/her/it immune to anything the GM wants.

A PC on the other hand? No, I'd definitely draw the line there. If a PC wants to be immune to emotion effects, there's always the android race.


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Wrath wrote:

Unless your immune to cold. Or immune to psychic effects, or immune to fear, or emotionally blunted.

Notice in their case they had to,deliberately spell out how magic affected Your bad guy. That's because it's not the norm. They wrote the exception into,their rule.

You could just as easily write the other way in as well.

I'm not 100% sure what you mean. I get immune to fear effects, but unless it's a special quality, "emotional bluntness" doesn't do anything. I also don't know what you mean in your second line. Who is spelling out what; what do you mean by the "it's not the norm;" and what do you mean by "they wrote the exception?" I'm not being deliberately obtuse or anything, just trying to follow your reasoning.

My point was, minus some kind of rules-based protection or immunity to the effect in question, just being unemotional as a personality trait provides no benefit. Unless the character/creature is a paladin, undead, construct, etc., fear effects are going to affect them no matter how brave their character is in his/her bio. Again, just like an Inuit-type character (Erutaki in Golarion parlance) is as susceptible to cold effects as someone who lives right on the equator.

*Edit: Okay I think I may follow you now. You were talking about Shebeleth from my previous post? In that case, the noted "exception" was purely flavor text; it wasn't needed from a rules perspective. The author could have outright described him as being totally devoid of all human emotions, and he'd still be susceptible to mind-affecting effects.


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Marco Massoudi wrote:

I seriously doubt that this will be out in november (which is too full with too many products anyway).

It still hasn't a product update.

I've been an AP subscriber since Curse of the Crimson Throne. They have never gone two consecutive months without releasing a volume of their AP.

As some people have noted, this is most likely due to just not getting the data to the printer on time, or getting the printed material stateside on time. Once Paizo actually has all that Pathfinder goodness stuffed in their warehouse though? It's ready to ship.


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Wrath wrote:

Must check my disorders more thoroughly.

Edit - completely correct. They do have emotions. However some of them can become very blunted to the point they never experience extremes and can't respond to them.

The entire point of Phantasmal,killer is to induce such an extreme response to fear it kills you.

Makes a pretty cool bad guy who is so blunted emotionally that Phantasmal killer can't effect him. Maybe that's his modus operandi even. He's so desperate to feel fear, or any real emotion, strong enough that he kills people with that very spell, hoping to catch a glimpse of what terrors are beyond his ken.

Way back in Paizo's first AP, Shattered City, there was a Big Bad by the name of Shebeleth Regidin. He's insane like his fellows. In his case, he is noted as having literally no emotion unless those emotions are induced by magic.

To put it another way: mind-affecting effects don't care if you, personally, aren't a very emotional person. They MAKE you an emotional person. That is their exact and literally only purpose. In the same way that it doesn't matter if you're a cold loving type when a cone of cold blasts you. You gonna be a popsicle.


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MMCJawa wrote:
Campbell sounds like someone who would be pretty cool with seeing his creations re-used. From what I have heard Lumley is a bit more protective.

I don't work for Paizo and certainly can't answer your point. I can speculate though. Maybe Paizo prefers working with Chaosium because they're pretty monolithic in terms of intellectual property, and by doing business with this fellow gaming company, Paizo gains access to more than enough Mythos goodness to suit their needs.

Trying to negotiate with other authors/companies would add complications while providing diminishing returns.

Again, purely a guess.


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Mavrickindigo wrote:
Kerdak Bonefist probably fears that Lich captain what gave him that bony hand o his, comin' to collect the rest o' his flesh for her nasty business.

Heh, yeah that's a better call than spiders. Still though. Screw spiders.

Anyway, and not that it matters too much for this topic, but the weird thing about Kerdak is that he's almost the BBEG by default. Indeed, I think I would consider Barnabas Harrigan the true antagonist of Skull and Shackles, or even Druvalia Thrune. In the same way that I could call Castruccio Irovetti the real baddy of Kingmaker instead of Nyrissa, or puppetmaster Anamurumon the BBEG of Jade Regent. Sure the antagonists I listed are the "last bosses," but I don't know if that qualifies them as the greatest antagonists from a story perspective. With that in mind, and for my own entertainment, I'll try for these villainous folks:

Barnabas Harrigan: He's a salty pirate bro through and through, so a mutiny from his crew would probably terrify him most. Kerdak Bonefist himself might scare the bejesus out of him as well, calling him out for his betrayal, laying bare his conspiracy with Cheliax and kicking him right in the pirate cred.
Druvalia Thrune: Don't really get to know this tough admiral. We do know that, if she dies before her dear great uncle Ezaliah, her soul is consigned to Hell. So with that in mind: perhaps her illusion is a pit to Hell opening up, and a devil appearing above it with an hourglass almost out of time, pointing at her and smiling.
Castruccio Irovetti: Again, hard to read Mr. Too Many Syllables. He's a proud, arrogant warlord. All I can think of is other potent warriors from the River Kingdoms and/or Numeria coming to put him in his place.
Anamurumon: Like his protege, Anamurumon wants the Jade Throne more than anything else. So I think something like the "reincarnated" Emperor Shigure, retaking what he so desperately seeks by proxy, would be his greatest fear. It would undo centuries of hard work by the Five Storms. Another option could be Soto Takahiro going Darth Vader and betraying him (uh... decades-old Star Wars spoiler I guess).


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Axial wrote:


I was gonna say...:

** spoiler omitted **

Good points all.

I just had a real tough time imagining what could make a nigh-omnipotent demon-god afraid, ya know? He's a borderline force of nature. But yeah, your suggestion might be more realistic than bug repellent. I guess.

As for Alexara, the only reason I went with angel over her actual god is because I already used that for everyone's favorite drow demonologist. As a sort of benefit too, an angel subtly suggests that poor Alexara isn't even worth Iomedae's personal attention anymore. That said, if we're going on what causes the most fear, Iomedae would probably be the best terrifying. Oh, or Iomedae's herald. That'd be nifty too.


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Karzoug: A horde of penniless paupers swarming him, taking everything.
Queen Illeosa: Her face in a mirror, swiftly showing the ravages of age until she is a withered, terrible crone.
Allevrah Azrinae: The god Nethys, cursing her for her fall.
Jhavhul: Ymeri choosing Nefeshti as her consort, then the two of them mocking the efreeti and leaving.
Ecarrdian Drovenge: His sister stabbing him in the back, then claiming Westcrown for herself.
Nyrissa: The same jabberwocky that was sent to kill her by the Eldest.
Vyr-Azul: Ydersius's skull shattering irrevocably.
Adivion Adrissant: Immune to mind-affecting effects. If he weren't though, I imagine lich Adivion's greatest fear would be transforming back into a living man. All his work undone.
Soto Takahiro, the Jade Regent: Emperor Shigure, alive and well, claiming the Jade Throne once and for all.
Kerdak Bonefist: I never got a good feel for this guy. By the end he was more dictator than pirate. So I'm going with... spiders.
Clockwork Reliquary: Immune to mind-affecting effects. As for Xin himself, he ended up deeply paranoid. So maybe a band of assassins or even the Runelords of his day come to strike him down. He also hated chaos, so perhaps his army of clockwork automatons going berserk.
Queen Elvanna: Baba Yaga.
Deskari: A can of Raid.
Hakotep I: Immune to mind-affecting effects. If he weren't, perhaps one of the great flying Shory cities. Even in miniature.
Unity: Its own rusting obsolescence, or perhaps being trapped in a tiny, bricked device.
Volstus: A human with an orb of giantkind.
Barzillai Thrune: Being mocked by beautiful women. Though really, his deepest fear is dying with no legacy and no one remembering him.
Alexeara Cansellarion: An angel castigating her for her failing faith, and the uselessness of her crusade.
Count Haserton Lowls IV: Cats.


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Thomas Seitz wrote:

G-Villain,

I'm 9000% sure Lowls is the guy the PCs want to punch out more than the Briarstone Witch.

Gotta say, he's quite possibly the most unlikable Pathfinder villain to date. A perfect melange of arrogant, stupid, and yeah, having a face that begs for punches. Just all the punches. At the same time he's a perfect bad guy for this particular AP. I will be most satisfied when horrible, very bad things happen to him.


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Kalindlara wrote:

I'm sure it will be more complex than that. If I had to guess, I'd say that it's more about preventing the horror in Lake Hali from awakening than about punching it to death.

(This is where Ariadnah comes in - she's a threat on the PCs' power level.)

That was my take away from the plot synopsis. That said:

Spoiler:
While the Briarstone Witch will obviously be a major antagonist in this AP, I think it's Count Lowls who will be the true threat. He's established from page 1 as Guy Whom the PCs Hate, and it's his reckless actions that set into motion all the Lovecraftian madness that follows.

So how can an aristocrat 2/bard 2 be a BBEG? Two options I can think of. Either he gets a power boost and ends up gaining multiple levels, or he's outright possessed by Hastur. Perhaps even both. There's precedence for this too - Queen Ileosa was an Aristocrat 2/Bard 4 at the start of Curse of the Crimson Throne, and by the end she's a magnificently powerful character with a diabolic template thrown on for good measure.


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Don't know why this was kicked back a month, but when the product description isn't updated this soon to its intended release date, that's an ill omen.


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Although I think it's pretty obvious that no, a wizard cannot cast directly from a spellbook, consider this: if spellbooks could be used like scrolls (which again, they cannot), they would cost as much as scrolls. In fact they would probably cost more, because a wizard can't prepare a spell from a scroll - he can only fire it off and then it's gone. That would make a spellbook even more versatile.

Anyway, here's the pricing for spells in a spellbook:

Spell Level: Cost:

0: 5 gp
1: 10 gp
2: 40 gp
3: 90 gp
4: 160 gp
5: 250 gp
6: 360 gp
7: 490 gp
8: 640 gp
9: 810 gp

Now for scrolls:

Spell Level: Cost:

0: 12.5 gp
1: 25 gp
2: 150 gp
3: 375 gp
4: 700 gp
5: 1,125 gp
6: 1,650 gp
7: 2,275 gp
8: 3,000 gp
9: 3,825 gp

Again, I don't think even this "proof" is necessary. If pages in a spellbook could be used as scrolls, that rule would be made explicitly clear either in the description of the wizard's spellbook on page 79 of the Core Rulebook, or the rules for Arcane Magical Writings on page 219.


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Okay, I caught something interesting.

Spoiler:

This adventure starts with the PCs being murdered in their dreams by the Tatterman. They then wake up and begin their adventure for real. However, as a GM knows, when the Tatterman marks people for death, his modus operandi is to kill them in their dreams ala Freddy Krueger. He has done exactly that to several patients and staff at Briarstone Asylum. His murder victims now wander the halls as ghouls or doppelgangers, and given the large number of these poor saps, Tatterbro is darn good at his job.

Looking at the final battle with the Tatterman itself, he seems plenty surprised that they are still alive. The only thing he says is "You're supposed to be dead. I already killed you. Why aren't you dead?!"

This leads me to believe that the PCs would have died in that first dream, except for... something. Right now the only guess I have, is that a yithian ally was somehow bolstering them. For example, the one who contacts them via dreams in this adventure, and whom they are destined to meet in person The Whisper Out of Time.


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You know, it just hit me:

spoiler:

When I was speculating above on which Great Old One the PCs would fight in this adventure, for some reason I completely forgot the King in Yellow version of Hastur in Bestiary IV. This is the "against Hastur" AP after all, and as already mentioned in this thread there's no way the PCs will be able to oppose him for real. It would be a great chance for The Unspeakable to show up and beat the ever-loving bejesus out of the party. When (if?) they wake up, they would know exactly what kind of danger they were up against. Plus there would be some cool synergy between this and when the PCs were "killed" by the Tatterman at the very beginning of this campaign.

Also, I mean, the name of this adventure. Kind of a big clue. That said, I'm wrong like all the time. We shall see soon enough.


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doc the grey wrote:
Generic Villain wrote:

Okay, question for the author of the star vampire: how much bleed damage should it inflict with its talon attack? And I don't mean its blood drain ability which activates during a grapple. Its attack routine is "3 talons +9 (1d4+4 plus bleed)," but the amount of bleed damage isn't noted.

Thanks for any clarification.

Lmao I was just coming on here to ask about this! Happy to see that I'm not the only one who asked this question.

I was looking at other monsters of comparable CR that deal bleed damage, and 1D6 seems to be a popular number. There's the bunyip (CR 3), piscodaemon (cr 10), mosquito swarm (CR 3), and rift drake (CR 9). Giant mosquitos (CR 4) have bleed 2D4 though, while vulnudaemons (CR 4) have 2D4.


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DungeonmasterCal wrote:
The World Papercut?

Sadistic...


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I'm worried the product description hasn't been updated yet. Hopefully this doesn't get bumped back a month.


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Dragon78 wrote:
Or is the encounters found along the Sullen River the article?

That's one article. Not sure what the other one is. Maybe there's only one article this time.


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If you play through Wrath of the Righteous...

Spoiler:

A lhaksharut (challenge rating 20 inevitable) attempted to personally close the Worldwound. He failed utterly, was captured, and now his powers are being used to keep the portal to the Abyss more stable than ever. Whoops.


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Marco Massoudi wrote:
My money on the GREAT OLD ONE in this volume is on Atlach-Nacha, the Void Weaver by Clark Ashton Smith, because it´s a spider that weaves a giant web between the Dreamlands and the Waking World (and the alleged creator of the Leng Spiders and Scarlett Walkers?).

According to the forward in In Search of Sanity...

Spoiler:
The PCs will actually be fighting a Great Old One in this adventure. I think we can assume that they will lose this fight, which tells me it takes place in the Dreamlands.

Right now the only Dreamlands dweller with stats is Bokrug, so he's a strong contender for this encounter. Assuming Bokrug isn't the guy though, the fact that Atlach-Nacha actually lives on Earth might potentially rule her out. That said, I can't find any other Great Old One who reside in the Dreamlands except Mhar, and that is a weird case. So you may well be right.

Also worth considering: every Great Old One thus far has the ability to use the spells dream and nightmare, so in that regard anyone could be a contender.


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Sifkesh is the Demon Lord of despair, suicide, and heresy. One tactic her cultists take, is to set up shop as a cult to an obscure but benign (and usually made up) deity, gain the community's trust along with well-meaning converts, then eventually end with everyone killing themselves for "the greater good." Of course if the suicide aspect doesn't appeal to you, I'm sure there are cultists who focus primarily on her heresy aspect.

The Demon Lord Pazuzu is also a master of corruption. His areas of interest are winged creatures, the sky, and most importantly temptation. His stat block in Bestiary 4 even notes that many of his antipaladin followers were once good guys who were tempted to chaos and evil - sometimes by Pazuzu himself.


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If anyone wants to read a short, fairly entertaining Cracked.com article on the trials and tribulations of telephone pollsters, point thine browser this way. Assuming the author is representative of the field as a whole, it seems to me that the classic methodology of polling is on a fast track towards obsolescence. Mostly for the reasons raised by some of the posters here.


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Crystal Frasier wrote:


So, what's everybody's favorite class for playing gay characters? Trans characters?

As a perma-GM I don't know if this really counts but... every BBEG I've ever designed has been a gay man. The reason being, I basically model all my major, primary antagonists on myself (thus my Generic Villain handle), so yeah. And honestly I can't remember if my PCs have ever discovered this in any of the campaigns I've run. Once I gave BBEG a bodyguard with whom he was very close, but I kept it ambiguous. I've always loved the dynamic between a truly dedicated bodyguard and his charge. The devotion of one man to another just really appeals to me, irrespective of sexuality. If anyone's played the Dynasty Warriors series or read Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Dian Wei was my archetype for this. To be so loyal to someone that you gladly sacrifice your life for them? That's love that transcends mere labels.

As for classes, I've always been partial to sorcerer for my primo villain. Nothing to do with being gay - just a class that's always called to me.


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Okay, question for the author of the star vampire: how much bleed damage should it inflict with its talon attack? And I don't mean its blood drain ability which activates during a grapple. Its attack routine is "3 talons +9 (1d4+4 plus bleed)," but the amount of bleed damage isn't noted.

Thanks for any clarification.


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Orfamay Quest wrote:


This isn't quite right. For example, if you roll 6 d6's, are you guaranteed to roll a 1? In fact, you could roll 30 d6s and still not roll a 1, if you're really luck --- or you could roll 30 of them.

To calculate the probability correctly, you actually multiply the chance of failure to represent the chances of multiple failures.

For example, the chance of rolling a 6 is 1/6. The chance of rolling double sixes is 1/6*1/6, or 1/36.

The chance of rolling not-a-6 is 5/6. The chance of rolling no sixes in two dice is 5/6*5/6 or 25/36. The chance of rolling no sixes in three dice is 5/6*5/6*5/6 or 125/216, roughly 50/50.

The chance of being selected in one poll is (by assumption) 1 in 255,000 or 1/255000. The chance of NOT being selected is therefore 254900/255000. The chance of not being selected in X polls is thus (254900/255000) raised to the power X.

Having said that, when you're dealing with probabilities this small, 1/255000 times X is not a bad approximation. And it will keep you from "going completely insane" "for a quick argument," as Paul Watson put it.

Cool, thanks for the rundown. I really like stats, love how counter-intuitive it can be. The Monty Hall problem is still somehow mindblowing to me.


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johnnyzcake wrote:

So first time AP subscriber and still relatively new GM so forgive me if these questions are noobish but wondering how people are GMing two particular instances

** spoiler omitted **

You picked a great AP to start with, I think, and your questions are by no means noobish. I actually considered each of your concerns as well. Overall, while I like this adventure, something about it feels disjointed. I brought up some of my own issues a few posts up.

But enough about me.

Spoiler:

The poison wine thing was a bit cliche. Not a bad idea necessarily, but any genre savvy player will not fall for it. Here's how I'd play it: have those cultists smear poison on the inside of certain wine glasses for the express purpose of serving unexpected guests. That way they can drink right along with the PCs, but with no danger to themselves. Maybe give observant PCs a Perception check to notice something in an empty glass before the wine is poured. (I stole this from some movie or another. Forget which one).

As for the books? I believe the only ones PCs will need are those found in the trunk in Haserton's study. Short of sticking neon post-its saying "Super Important" all over the trunk, I don't know how to convince players to grab them. Here's my idea. The next adventure starts, I believe, with the PCs grabbing a ship to Cassomir. As they are about to cast off, have one of their NPC allies (likely Cesadia Wrentz or Winter Klaczka) show up last minute with the trunk, and say something to the effect of "I've been doing some research and looking around Iris Hill, and I think these may be important for your quest."

If that's too heavy-handed, I'd have the PCs dream about the books and their true value. This would actually be a great time to have them dream once again of the old Keleshite woman mentioned in "The Observer" on page 26 of In Search of Sanity. We know this woman is actually a yithian, is trying to help the PCs, and can contact them via dreams. A good chance to have her give some concrete assistance.


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Scythia wrote:

Also, aren't polls usually predicated on getting the opinions of voters? Polls I've experienced will often ask first if I'm registered to vote/plan to vote before asking anything else.

So, instead of total adults you want to look at adults that are registered to vote and have landline phones. That's a significantly smaller number, I'd wager.

All salient points. But too much work for a single Facebook post to try to account for even some of those factors.


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Axial wrote:
Can someone give me class levels and brief descriptions of the humanoid enemies you encounter in this volume? I'd like to know what a Hastur cult looks like.

Spoiler:

Mooks are Rogue 2, Cleric of Hastur 1/Rogue 3, Barbarian 4, and Fighter 3. The boss is a Cleric of Hastur 7. Other named NPC villains include a Druid 6 (into fungus), Aristocrat 2/Rogue 3, Sorcerer 6, Rogue 5/Assassin 2 (whose illustration is adorable and I don't know why I even think that), and a penanggalen Bard 6. If penanggalen doesn't exactly ring a bunch of bells, they're the weird vampire-like floating heads.


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Kalindlara wrote:
If it helps, I believe it originally appears in Carrion Hill. You can probably find a value there, or on Archives of Nethys. ^_^

Oh I am well aware - Carrion Hill is an amazing adventure and one of my favorites. Alas, no value given there either.


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Another point of annoyance: it would have been nice to have a gp value attached to the Pnakotic Manuscripts. It's a spellbook sure, but not just a spellbook. The Chains of Night from the last adventure had a similar setup it got a resell value, for example.


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I messed up my numbers yet again (sigh): a 1-425 chance is equal to 0.23%, not 0.0023%. I aced both stats classes, but am increasingly wondering how. Maybe a truly tragic curve?

David knott 242 wrote:

Another factor is how the polls are conducted.

Do they knock on doors? If so, what is the chance that they do the poll while somebody is home?

Do they make phone calls? If so, are the phone numbers selected from a list of land lines or do they include cell phones in their list of numbers to call? And with the prevalence of caller ID, what is the chance that you will answer a phone call from a pollster since you would not recognize it as belonging to anyone you know?

I think factors like these rather than sheer chance would explain why I have not been polled in recent years.

Agreed entirely. In fact I was reading how 18-34s are considered very lucky "gets" by pollsters, on account of how many of them don't have land-lines. It was that very factor that lead to the infamous Dewey Beats Truman headline in 1948. Though in that case, because only the wealthy owned phones, it unintentionally weighted polls of the day in their favor, despite them being a minority.

Still, my little exercise is only meant as a quick and dirty counter to those who discount polls because they, themselves, were not asked. Like really? The point of a poll is to generalize answers from a representative population, not ask all 250 million of us.


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Whoops. Totally messed up my numbers: with 255,000,000 adults and a sample size of 1,000, that's a 1-in-255,000 chance to be picked for any specific poll. Meaning the odds are technically 1-in-425, or 0.002%, for an adult to be chosen for any national poll at all.

...Hey, I went to public school, it's a wonder I can even wipe myself.


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Paul Watson wrote:

Assuming the polls are completely independent events, you would multiply the chance by the number of events, as you did.

Now, polls aren't truly independent. They often use proxies which shrinks the voting pool. A company may reuse previous lists. Some of the polls are location or demographic dependent and so wouldn't necessarily include the whole population.
However, to avoid going completely insane, treating them as independent is good enough for a quick argument.

Okay cool, thanks.


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Hey, it's been a while since I took my stat classes. Short summary: I'm trying to calculate the odds that a given adult will be chosen to participate in a national poll. Mostly to counter the whole "How can polls be successful? I was never asked my opinion!" nonsense.

There are aprx. 255,000,000 adults in America. Most national polls have a sample size of 1,000. Thus, for any given poll, someone has a 1 in 2,550,000 chance of getting the call.

My problem is how to determine the chance for multiple polls. Is it as simple as putting 2,550,000 over X, where X equals the number of polls in a given year? So for example there were roughly 600 national scientific polls (that I know of) in 2012. Would the odds that a single person be chosen for any of them equal 1 in 4,250 (2,550,000/600)? That is, a given adult has a 1 in 4,250 (or 0.00023%) chance of being chosen for any national poll in a hypothetical election year?

Thanks for any refreshers.


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So overall I really liked this adventure. A few points of annoyance though:

Spoiler:

First, it's important that the PCs check out Fort Hailcourse before tackling Iris Hill, primarily because the latter is much more challenging than the former. Yet when the PCs go knocking at the Fort's sole entrance, the commander('s shapeshifting murderer) herself shows up and tells them to piss off, has a really high Bluff skill, and a legit sounding story. Plus there's really no other way in except for the front door. By contrast, Iris Hill's doorman is much more sketchy and the estate is far easier to permeate. How are the PCs to know that the Fort should be their first target?

Second, I would have loved to hear Rumatri's story. A vudrani penanggalen just chilling out with the Hastur brigade for... reasons? To be fair I know a lot of minor details like "why the undead flying head is here" need to be cut for space reasons. Still, even a sentence explaining her relationship to the cult would have been illuminating.

Third, what happened to Trilliss, priestess of New Chapel? She's mentioned as missing in the adventure. The fates of Thrushmoor's other important missing citizens (Count Haserton and Magistrate Tillus) are noted, but Trilliss? Nada.


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RuyanVe wrote:


Hopefully this does not complicate things (later) where mechanisms refer to "spells having the word "symbol" in their name"...

Although, once you're able to wield 9th level spells nothing in the world seems complicated, I'd say...

Ruyan.

Considering the spell's very first sentence is "This spell functions as per symbol of death," I don't think there's much room for confusion. And symbol of yellow just doesn't sound right, naming conventions be damned.


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Axial wrote:
So what does the Hastur article reveal about him?

It's complicated. Basically, a solid effort at stitching together decades of work from multiple different authors, while trying to remain true to them all.

He has three aspects represented by the three cities around Lake Hali: Carcosa is his nihilism, Yhtill his decadence, and Alar his disorder. The article really cemented that the King in Yellow is one of his avatars, as opposed to the entirety of his being. This leads me to believe that the final adventure may have a different version of him statted in its Bestiary. Whatever lurks in Lake Hali, perhaps. There are hints that Carcosa (the parasitic city) is a "cocoon" of sorts, and he will eventually emerge as a true Elder God.

Priests are often bards, oracles, sorcerers, and (obviously) clerics. Cults like to pose as political or academic groups, and love infiltrating other religions - they get a particular kick out of weaseling their way into the cult of Razmir.

We get a 9th-level yellow sign spell that functions as a symbol that puts targets under the command of any worshiper of Hastur.


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NenkotaMoon wrote:
I thought you can only make Living Garments if you are a Drow?

Nope. Only a few items from Advanced Race Guide (that book has a creepy name without any context) have a racial requirement for crafting them, and those are specifically noted for each particular item. For example, a few of the gnome goodies can only be made by either gnomes or wizards specialized in particular schools. Living garments have no such additional requirements. Anyone with the Craft Wondrous Item feat can churn one out.


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Kalindlara wrote:
Well, you're not wrong. I'm... not sure what that has to do with Jade Regent, though. ^_^

Technically not wrong: the best kind of not wrong.

(Yeah, definitely misread that. Whoops.)


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The Raven Black wrote:


Found the bit I was misremembering. it's from Call of Chtulhu (the short piece) :

Another common refrain in Lovecraftian fiction is that the Great Old Ones don't care at all about their mortal worshipers. When the stars are right, everyone becomes food for the gods. You're the high priest of Cthulhu and you just managed to release him from imprisonment? Great job! He eats you first, but still, cool story bro. And honestly it's death if the priest is lucky - there are way worse fates awaiting those foolish few who would court madness. 'I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream' level stuff.


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Kalindlara wrote:
Jade Regent only assumes that RotRL has taken place - however, since Shalelu appears in Second Darkness, it can make continuity awkward. ^_^

From the introduction by James Jacobs in the first Shattered Star adventure:

"The events of Shattered Star are assumed to take place after those of Rise of the Runelords, Curse of the Crimson Throne, and Second Darkness."

He goes on to say:

AP Plot Spoiler:

"Karzoug has been defeated and Xin-Shalast rediscovered. Queen Ileosa has risen to power in Korvosa only to be overthrown. And the legendary tales of drow are now known to be facts."


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There's a 2-paragraph blurb on page 189 of Inner Sea Races. They tend towards professions involving poison, spying, and the arts. Dozens of them belong to the Daggermark Assassin's Guild in the River Kingdoms region. Additionally, the Grand Sarret - a school for courtiers and spies - on the Island of Jalmeray has employed them. The Red Mantis may have some vishkanyas in its ranks as well.


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The Raven Black wrote:
Isn't Humankind, at least on Earth, fated to become a Great Old One ?

Eh, getting a bit off topic and I'll probably ramble so:

Ramble:

Not entirely sure what you mean. Like, evolve into Elder Gods ourselves? I am by no means an expert on the Cthulhu Mythos in its entirety, but I've read everything by Lovecraft himself and that's not mentioned. In short, humans are to Great Old Ones (and even hyper-advanced races like mi-go and yithians) what ants are to humans. Mostly, you ignore an ant. If you're a scientist, you could research, study, and experiment on them. An exterminator, or just a guy sick of all the ants coming into his house? It's squish time. But no, in all likelihood you are oblivious to them because they are incidental. You are also as alien to them in thought and emotion as they are to you.

Perhaps, after millions of years of evolution, humans will become something more. Maybe then we'll be worthy of attention - and in all likelihood, immediately regret it and wish we could go back to being ignored.

Again, I can only really speak to Lovecraft's work, and a bit of Chambers' and Derleth's (though I don't like Derleth's take on things at all). There are many authors who have added to the Mythos, and some could certainly have different interpretations.

Wikipedia has a solid description of cosmic horror as a genre.


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Thomas Seitz wrote:

I'm interested to see if there's much life left on Earth if there's all these Old Ones sitting on top of it...

Continuing the adventure should be "Hey let's go save this weird blue planet!"

One overarching theme in the cosmic horror genre is that Earth is doomed. It's not a matter of if, but when. Right now, however, most of the Elder Gods are either imprisoned in some manner (Cthulhu, Ghatanothoa), seriously hindered by weird rules (Hastur, Ithaqua), or just don't care about our planet in the slightest (Azathoth, Yog-Sothoth). The problem is, at some unspecified future time those first two categories will become free, and just like Fenrir busting his chains, that's the signal for the end times.

Until then though, Earth is pretty safe. I mean except for Nyarlathotep, a completely unfettered and supremely powerful god who has a malignant fascination with humanity, and likes to screw with us all the time. Yeah, besides him we're okay. Theoretically speaking.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Dragon78 wrote:

An article about Golarion's past sounds interesting.

I'm guessing it will have a heavy Mythos edge. Right now we know that, at some point long ago, Shub-Niggurath plopped a few million neothelids onto Golarion. That the Kellids of ancient Ustalav were all about the Old Cults. Thassilon liked poking around in Leng and summoning space monsters. And... not a whole lot else, off the top of my head.

Really interested in seeing what other Lovecraftian madness lurks in Golarion's past.


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Troodos wrote:
I find it ironic that, with the Mad Arab, and now Paris, the AP based on works that are all about how insignificant Earth is looks like it's going to be the most Earth-Centric AP yet.

Regarding Paris:

Spoiler:

The PCs go to a "twisted version" of the City of Light, where the Tower of Eiffel is black. Carcosa is full of such warped versions of other locales, including Thrushmoor and (I think?) Azlant.

That said, this AP was pretty much guaranteed to be heavily influenced by Earth, simply because the many contributors to the Cthulhu Mythos set their stories there. Paizo could have easily made R'lyeh a sunken city out in the Obari Ocean, or placed the underworld of K'n-yan anywhere in the Darklands. But they wanted to maintain the fidelity of the source material. And so, Pathfinder's Earth is the same hotbed of eldritch horrors as Lovecraft's Earth. I mean, at least eight of the 20 god-things listed in the Elder Mythos Article from In Search of Sanity can be found there. Can't swing a dead cat there without whacking an Elder God.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Hey James. So here's the latest in my series of Mythos questions.

I loved the Elder Mythos article in In Search of Sanity - like more than some of my relatives. That said, it struck me that a surprising number of Great Old Ones (and even an Elder God) ostensibly live on Earth. Or at least, the fantastic version of Earth visited in Rasputin Must Die.

We have Cthulhu in R’lyeh, Ghatanothoa in a similar island prison, Chaugnar Faugn chilling in hill country, Rhan-Tegoth in a very unfortunate museum, and in Hyperboria (ie, the prehistoric artic), there's Ahboth, Atlach-Nacha, Tsathoggua, and according to the Tsathoggua article, even sexy newbie Orgesh. That's a whopping 50% of the Elder Mythos, all trapped in various forms of imprisonment or indolence on Earth.

Or! So it is if we go strictly off of the lore written by Lovecraft and Clark Ashton Smith. Also Chaosium.

So my question: I know you aren't huge on revealing major plot points outside of canon, published works. That said: is it possible that in Pathfinder, places like Mount Voormithadreth, K'n-yan, and N'kai don't exist on the Pathdinder Earth? I'm not looking for an affirmation either way, so much as the possibility of ambiguity.

Also I know that a) Cthulhu is pretty solidly established as being stuck on Earth, and b) both Chaugnar Faugn and Rhan-Tegoth are noted as potentially existing in multiple locales/dimensions simultaneously. Totally cool with that.

Also second question: If you don't mind revealing your potential inspiration, was death/swamp god-thing Nhimbaloth inspired by the awesome Algernon Blackwood short story 'The Willows?'

Thank you as always for your boundless Mythos knowledge.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
captain yesterday wrote:

I had your same concerns, however I noticed.

** spoiler omitted **

Ah okay, yeah I totally forgot about that. Whoops.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Marco Massoudi wrote:
Generic Villain wrote:
So I love this adventure. There's no two ways about it. But I do have some quibbles about the very beginning.
** spoiler omitted **

Oh I get that. In fact...

Adventure Spoiler:
It's required that the PCs kill all three doppelgangers before proceeding to the next part of the adventure (that is, the refugee camp). The three shapeshifters to the north are literally the only option. Unfortunately they are very much alive and kicking, and not exactly willing to lay down and die for the PCs' benefit.

Yes the doppelgangers are cut off from their compatriots. But still, the three of them (one of whom has a level of Mesmerist) are formidable opponents indeed for a party of approximately 4 1st-level adventurers. Even if the PCs gang up on them and manage to take them one at a time, a doppelganger can do serious damage and likely bring down even a well-built tank. According the the Core Rulebook, creatures with a CR 2 high than the PCs pose a "hard" encounter. Dear Mrs. Oathsday, at CR 4, is an "epic" fight. This just seems like a really poorly planned start to an otherwise awesome adventure. I can't help but imagine some TPKs, unless the GM really fudges things in his hapless PC's favor.

Just my thought on the matter. I haven't run this adventure. Though I certainly would like to - with a few adjustments.


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So I love this adventure. There's no two ways about it. But I do have some quibbles about the very beginning.

Adventure spoiler:

Right out of the gate, the PCs are required to hunt down and kill 3 doppelgangers, one of whom has a level in Mesmerist. And that of course means her stats are quite a bit higher than a standard doppelganger, which are already formidable CR 3 opponents. I would have much preferred if the orderly in the very first scene survived and vouched for the PCs, thus allowing them an opportunity to rest and recuperate between hunting foes far more powerful than they.

Another solid option would have been to swap the doppelgangers with some less intimidating ghouls, and move the doppelgangers elsewhere.

To make matters worse, the hypnotic doppelganger has crazy high (for 1st-level PCs) Bluff, Diplomacy, and Disguise skills, and explicitly tries to fool the party into sneaking her into the survivors' encampment. But the PCs need 3 doppelganger bodies, and Dr. Oathsday is one of them by necessity, so they can't technically even acquiesce to her request.

Also - and this is a comparatively minor quibble, though still bothersome - page numbers stop after page 25. Still, an awesome adventure by master of the macabre Mr. Schneider.

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