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Gary Teter

Gary Teter's page

PostMonster General. Pathfinder Modules Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 5,955 posts (5,961 including aliases). No reviews. 5 lists. 1 wishlist. 1 alias.


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You are mistaken as to who is responsible for "every negative change" to the monks since they came out.

I am not functioning alone. The design team works together on these things. And before it goes to print, Jason reads all the rules content as a last-minute check.

How brass knuckles interact with monk attacks was a decision the design team reached after discussing it.

Monk vows were a decision the design team reached after discussing it. (Mind you, in the design turnover for the vow, the benefit was you got +1 ki for every 5 monk levels. So it's not like I took what was presented and nerfed it, I felt it needed more of a boost than as it was originally written. Clearly most people think it deserved more, but don't paint this situation like I did this to punish anyone or that I hate monks or vows.)

The wording for flurry of blows in the Core Rulebook was written by Jason (and as that TWF reference isn't in the Beta, it was probably added very late in the design process for the Core Rulebook). At the time, Jason felt his intent was clear. The blog preview for PFRPG monks shows flurry-as-TWF was his intent. "Sean's ruling" on how flurry works isn't my personal belief (derived independently with no input from Jason) of how the rule should work, it's the result of me checking and re-checking with Jason about it over the course of the boards discussion to make sure I understand what he meant by the text in the Core Rulebook.

As it turns out, the rules for the monk flurry aren't clear. I got it wrong when answering an earlier FAQ (perhaps I didn't explain myself well enough to Jason when addressing that FAQ issue, perhaps Jason misrembered that he changed how flurry works in PF). Other people on staff got it wrong when they built or developed stat blocks. Freelancers got it wrong when they wrote archetypes for the monk. Like much of the rules text in the Core Rulebook, the flurry text could really benefit from being rewritten and reworded. The design team hasn't decided what to do about that yet, but that doesn't change that Jason intended it to work like TWF. This isn't "Sean's ruling," this is "how Jason the designer wanted it to work."

It's really easy to make me the point man for your outrage and rude comments because I'm the guy who's always answering FAQ questions. And it's easy to want to "go ask mom" if you don't like the rule answer from "dad." But that's not how it works. If you don't like my answer, you can't ask Jason to override me... because what we say in the FAQ is the result of a discussion and consensus with the other designers, regardless of whose name (mine, Jason's, Stephen's) is attached to that specific FAQ. It's fine to disagree with a FAQ, or say you won't do it that way in your campaign, or ask for the design team to reconsider a FAQ decision, but you can't single out me or Stephen or Jason and say "that guy is wrong, I want another designer to correct them." That just makes you look foolish.

Yes, ProfessorCirno, your information is wrong about me designing the gunslinger. I have no idea where you got the idea that I had anything to do with the design of that class. Maybe you should think about what other information you think is true is actually wrong. And that goes for everyone in this flurry meta-topic. I've been reading all of this, and I can't help but laugh at some of the ridiculous and provably false things some people are quoting as the truth. One really good example is "Jason couldn't have meant flurry to work like TWF, that would make the sohei invalid, and Jason designed the sohei, and he wouldn't have designed the sohei that way if he meant flurry to work like TWF." Except that Jason didn't design the sohei (at least, Jason Bulmahn didn't... it was designed by freelancer Jason Nelson). You guys don't know who designed which parts, or who developed which parts, or what discussion led to a particular choice of wording. Talking as if you do know really puts you on shaky ground.

Does the brass knuckles ruling hurt the monk? Only in the sense that the monk is a weak class and needs to be fixed at its root, not patched with a weapon choice that would become the default weapon for monks if you don't want your monk PC to suck.

Does the vow of poverty hurt the monk? Only in the sense that the monk is a weak class and needs to be fixed at its root, not patched with a two-paragraph option for gearless monks that doesn't address the greater campaign issues of wealth by level, wealth in a party, and so on.

Does the flurry-as-TWF rule hurt the monk? Well, it certainly doesn't help that it breaks or forces weird interpretations of certain archetypes, and is written in a confusing way that led to unclear interpretations by most people who read it.

I don't want the monk merely patched, I want it fixed. I agree that it's hard to play an effective monk, the monk rules are convoluted, and it's expensive in terms of magic item and ability score needs. But I don't know that the monk can be sufficiently fixed without requiring significantly more explanatory text in the Core Rulebook--which we can't add without messing up the layout for pages and pages, which we can't do because we have that book and other books referring to things in the Core Rulebook by specific page number. I--and the other designers--don't want to just slap a bandage on it and call it good; this is a significant concern, just like the stealth rules, and deserves careful consideration.

My much-earlier point from the other thread still stands: I go out of my way to engage with people on the boards, discuss rules, and figure out what people want in the FAQ. When Jason and I discuss something in the rules, if I disagree with his ruling (for example, I think the trip weapon property is really weak), I'm not afraid to (1) explain the official ruling, and (2) admit that I disagree with that ruling. Yet too many people here think that I'm some kind of FAQ-lackey, making rulings without talking it over with other members of the staff, and think it's okay to be rude to me or go "over my head" when they disagree with the official ruling from the design team. I got tired of that attitude. And I stopped posting answers to rules, and stopped posting FAQs, because I didn't want to deal with it any more (which is sad, because I actually like answering rules questions). Because I'm not required to deal with rudeness and personal attacks, I won't do it.

And since I stopped posting rules clarifications and FAQs, there have been zero new FAQs posted.

Take that as you will.


Terquem:

You are not the only person going through the issue of trying to absorb the new rules. I have been playing since 1981 and have been involved with making games since 1987. I was an expert playing 1st edition AD&D. I could pretty much open up the book to the exact page by feel. I knew where everything was and those books had horrible organization. But that didn't matter, because I KNEW them.

Flash forward 30 years and I am as befuddled as you are looking through the various rules forums. It IS like a foreign language. There are so many feats and archetypes and such that it is many times a bunch of blah, blah, blah, blah to me. And I OWN the company and the game! :)

But I don't let that stop me. I run a weekly game where one of my players was heavily involved with creating the 3rd edition rules at WotC. He knows them backwards and forwards. He calls me out on my mistakes from time to time. I just roll with it. Sometimes it is great because I can just ask him what a rule says and he can tell me without me having to look it up. Sometimes it stinks, because I disagree with a rule. But the good news is that my players go along with whatever my ruling is and we move onward. Sometimes I use the old trick where I say something like, "You are right, usually you can't do that, but this guy can for some reason" or "This version of that magic item works slightly differently than the ones you find commonly in the streets of Absalom."

Basically, I am willing to wing it and not be an expert on the rules. I've decided long ago to put more ranks into roleplaying and knowing how to run a campaign that is fun and has people coming back for years and years than into things like Know Rules. I just don't care about the rules enough to warrant that kind of expertise. Also, that is why I have folks like Jason Bulmahn on staff.

In closing, I can understand feeling that the game is moving away from you at a fast pace. Us older folks (and I AM older than you by a little bit) don't adapt as well as we used to when we were young. But we can still have a heck of a lot of fun roleplaying by just not taking the rules too seriously and enjoying roleplaying with our friends. That is what it is all about afterall.

Glad to see that you aren't giving up! There are a lot of kindred spirits here on the boards. Hopefully you can find a new group of friends here and will eventually jump back in the GM seat.

-Lisa


This is a test of the pbp system. Perception: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (1) + 3 = 4

Treppa fails to notice the results. Sadly, I put in the results before I knew the roll, and it was correct.

Stupid die roller! Pygooon! :shakefist:


For those of you interested, I will be at the bookstore signing books on Saturday. At least, until security throws me out. :D

Spoiler:
Doesn't matter which series, Harry Potter, romance novels, those Dummies series. I'll sign them all!

Paizo Employee **** (Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator)

cibet44 wrote:
Please verify the state laws regarding background checks for adults interacting with minors in both the home state of paizo and gencon. There are liability issues and child endangerment issues to consider. I strongly urge you speak with legal council and social services if you have not done so already. Best luck and be safe.

Before Paizo, I worked Crimes Against Children and Special Victims as a police detective for almost 10 years. I have more than 1500 hours of training in all aspects of child abuse, child abduction, and child homicide, as well as various other topics. I also was a member of the NW Georgia child abduction response team. Besides my normal case load, I worked more than 500 cases along side the Department of Family and Childrens' Services in Cobb County Georgia during that time span. I am well aware of the liabilty and child endangerment issues that need to be considered. This is one reason the tables we be located directly alongside PFS HQ. Additionally, it is why we require a parent or guardian to remain with their child at all times during the two hour sessions. Finally, it is why I am personally screening any GM that will be involved with running the tables for 4 children and their parents.

I appreciate your concerns, take the matter of child welfare extremely seriously, and welcome any further emails you may have.


And in other news...

...I got engaged over the weekend. Shocking, right?

This is a strictly Paizo-only announcement for now, since we're not going to tell her family for another few weeks at least, but still...


On another note I was playing LIFE with the kids, and when our daughter got to the part where you get married I put the little blue peg beside her little pink peg in her car. She gives me this look and says "Daddy, I want a pink wife, not a blue one."

Paizo Employee (Customer Carebear)

Paizo Employee (Production Assistant)

Jess Door wrote:

Seoni is annoying because she was the first major iconic image to get thrown around for Pathfinder, and the outfit and look doesn't fit her character sheet.

sure, sure, sorceress = high charima = super hot chick that can't wear armor so we can put her sex clothing!!! But Seoni has high intelligence (for a sorceror), and is serious and quiet. The outfit doesn't fit her character at all...she's not even underhanded and manipulative enough to use it purely to manipulate and control men. What's the point of dressing like that.

At least the oracle has the excuse she's nearly blind. :D

Paizo's always invested in lots of art, and works hard to keep the quality up. And Seelah and the inquisitor are awesome. Seoni and the witch and the oracle are a bit over the top sometimes, but like I said, I can usually deal. Seoni bothers me the most because she's quite well endowed and has no visible means of support. Bouncing around adventuring would be very painful like that.

::winces::

Somebody give that woman a good underwire!!!

Actually, as an anthropologist, a feminist, and a member of the Paizo art staff, I'm happy you brought up some of these issues. They've been on my mind a lot lately, as well.

Seoni dresses provactively. There's no denying that. Part of that is the same reason you mentioned: Sorcerer = high charisma, and the easiest way to convey that in a single illustration is making someone attractive and confidant. That being said, being confidant and attractive doesn't mean also being stupid, and being intelligent (as Seoni is) doesn't mean being an introvert or not caring about appearances. In-game, Seoni was raised in a very visceral culture that encourages music and dance and physical fitness. Out-of-game, her outfit was design primarily to show off the Varisian tattoos.

While Seoni's look was designed by a guy (The incomparable Wayne Reynolds), everything is created with input and feedback from our female art director, and even me on rare occasion (I'm quite proud of getting to add some input into Reiko and Lirianne's designs).

In the end, what Seoni wears is revealing, but her design was released alongside Meresiel and Kyra, a woman who is fully clothed but tight, and a woman who is bundled up like there was a fire sale at the scarf-and-chainmail-emporium. All three are awesome examples of womanhood in their own ways. Since then, Paizo's female iconic have run the gamut from badass warriors who won't take your s+%% (Seelah and Imrijka), to tough-and-hot adventurer chicks (like Lirrianne or Amiri), to eye-candy (Alhazra), to... other (Lini). Seoni's outfit on her own fits stereotypes of what women have been told they should be, but all our female iconics, taken as a group, provide an awesome cross-section of what it actually does mean to be a woman. To leave out women who like to look and feel hot would've bordered on slut-shaming.

As to the lack of support... yeah, that makes me wince, too. Thankfully, most of our other women are less endowed and better supported. Prestidigitation, perhaps?

Paizo Employee (Customer Carebear)

Blue Chris: So...why is one of our most snark filled people called the "customer carebear"?

Paizo Employee (Customer Carebear)

crystal: Church of Lamashtu... Reformed

crystal: We're not like those weirdo orthodox Lamashtuans

Paizo Employee (Customer Carebear)

crystal: Also: The Watch Guard and the Watch Officer... which is which?

sara marie: one has a lunch box!

sara marie: his wife packed it for him

sara marie: she even cut the crusts off like he likes

ross: ...now I can't see a lantern any more. Only a boxed lunch

liz: What sammich did he get today?

crystal: His wife really loves him, and worries about his dangerous job

crystal: Every time adventurers roll into town, she has nightmares

Paizo Employee (Customer Carebear)

I think Redmond got about 4-5 inches today. It doesn't sound like a lot, but Seattle doesnt have the infrastructure for dealing with snow (not worth it I guess for how little we usually get). Plus there are hills everywhere. Typically you have people native to the area who are clueless about driving in snow, combined with people from the east/Midwest who think they know what they are doing but didn't realize that the roads aren't salted (just sanded... sometimes) and that we have wicked hills which together make for very dangerous conditions. If you know what you're doing and have a decent car/truck/chains for it, the roads aren't that bad, it's mainly all the other drivers that scare me. Which is why Gary and I walked to work :)

/rant

Paizo Employee (Customer Carebear)

jeff: That's why we love you! You think of the stuff that we don't!

Taldor (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber)

Callous Jack wrote:
Jess Door wrote:
(snicker. "...A Civil Religious Discussion!")
Do I even want to know...?

Oh, at the trivia contest at Paizocon last year they set up a question especially for us at the FAWTL table (they wanted to limit our silly antics for some reason), and the one question they let us answer went something like "What phrase, often shortened to a five letter acronym, is used to label a series of forum posts exceeding eleventy zillion posts over a span of six threads..."

We stood up and gave the answer "A Civil Religious Discussion!"


Brian Darnell wrote:
What is Paizo's mission statement?

I always thought that it was:

"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women."

-Lisa

Andoran (RPG Superstar 2012)

Celestial Healer wrote:

Morning, all. What did I miss?

Only 3 1/2 hours to 2 o'clock!

What happens at 2? <whistles innocently>

Good luck to you, CH.


Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Gary Teter wrote:
You people are crazy and wonderful and we love you all!
There's also a 1385x1051 desktop-sized version here.

And here it is annotated so everyone can figure out who is who. (Works under Firefox and Opera, not sure about Chrome or Safari)

Hopefully everyone has the correct name.

Paizo Employee (Customer Service Happiness-Inducement Imp)

'Twas brillig and the subscriptive toves
Did gyre and unsuspend in the wabe:
All mimsey were the bookiegroves,
And the pending order outgrabe.

BEWARE the Shipping Fee my son!
The Jaws that bite, the fee that catch!
Beware the Jubjub email, and shen
The frumious Ordersnatch!

I took my vorpal powers in hand:
Long time the manxome order I sought--
So rested me by the Off Topic tree,
and stood awhile in thought.

And, in uffish thought I stood
The Shipping Fee, with eyes of flame,
came whiffling through the tulgey order,
and burbled as it came!

One, TWO! One, TWO! And through and through
My Vorpal powers went snicker-snack!
And left it combined, and with it's new confirmation email
went galumphing back.

"And, hast thou slain the Shipping Fee, Cosmo?
I'll check out my order history, my beamish friend!
O frabjous Day! Callooh! Callay!"
You chortled in your joy.

'Twas brillig and the subscriptive toves
Did gyre and unsuspend in the wabe:
All mimsey were the bookiegroves,
And the pending order outgrabe.

In other words...:
I have unsuspended your subscriptions, added the stuff to your pending order, and sent you a new confirmation email which should reflect the changes.

If you want to add items to the order, go ahead and order them as normal, then select "Ship with existing pending order" in the shipping options.

Thanks,
cos

Andoran (RPG Superstar 2012)

I'm sitting at an Outback Steakhouse getting all teary-eyed. :)

Paizo Employee (Customer Carebear)

I'm speechless so I'm just gonna favorite gary's post.


Sara Marie wrote:
gary: i'm powered by souls

Don't let him lie to you.

Spoiler:
He's really powered by your hugs.


Guy Humual wrote:
Yuck, this would make the chatroom stricter then Paizo forums.

The chatroom isn't a democracy. I pay money for the domain, the hosting, the bandwidth, and put forth a portion of programming time for its custom features—I think following the short list of rules that I have is a pretty reasonable request for the chatroom's use. If people can't abide by them, then there's not much else to say.

Oh, here's another rule: No link-sharing of illegal downloads of any sort. I hope I don't have to explain why.


Easter Egg:
Puffin ♥♥ Treppa


Kelsey--

Spoiler:
I missed your comments (presumably about Tolkien). :(

I've only been here about a year longer than you, so let me offer you some advice that you can ignore if you like.

I personally don't care what you say. But if you want to make friends in Fawtl, you're going to have abide by their rules or else you'll get ostracized. (See: Gark the Goblin, to a certain extent me)

Their rules, ostensibly, are: no religion, no politics, no sports (although they seem to ignore that one all the time). A corollary that I would offer is that if I'm the only one engaging you in conversation, you're probably violating the rules as the Lord President Moorluck found out.

It's a learning process, figuring out what is okay and what is not. And, of course, the rules are stretched a bit, depending on who you are. I'd advise you spend a bit more time lurking to get the lay of the land. As you spend more time here, you'll figure out who is who, what their senses of humor are, and which people have higher tolerance for "trolling."

Also, I'd advise that you learn to let things go. For example, if the moderators delete one of your posts, don't write a post back explaining what you meant. Apologizing is fine, but going into the details of why you said what you said kind of defeats the purpose of them deleting it.

Don't get me wrong: there's all kinds of threads where people will be happy to engage you in outrageous statements and vitriolic attacks; Fawtl just isn't one of them.

Of course, it's very possible that I have no idea what I'm talking about. Please keep in mind that, again, I have no problems with you, but, then again, I love trolls!

Cheliax (Pathfinder Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber)

To Ewan a few words of advice

:
I know you claim to have been misinterpreted many times, and have been part of some controversial threads, so I shall share some words of advice that will help you in future

Tone - It is very important to try and be mindful of how your text comes across. Take some time to think of how it can possibly be interpreted. Try to word your posts to be as neutral, inoffensive, or as unobtrusive as possible.

Context - This is something I had to learn the hard way. Try to understand ones opponent on a issue. Not just what they believe, but why they believe it. Understand not just that they have these beliefs but what history, and what feelings lead to this belief in that person. Most people here on the boards are willing to share as much. If you know where it comes from then it may not be so offensive to your sensibilities.

Apologize - Don't be afraid to apologize or to be apologetic. To admit when your wrong, or even when your taken out of context. It immediately defuses a situation that could build up tension.

Be exhaustive - Don't be afraid to let your posts run long, if you explain your conclusions exhaustively it is harder to be taken out of context

FAWTL - If you do indeed intend to be apart of Fawtl, I suggest you mend fences. This is not something that will be easy or something that will happen quickly. But you have had issues with some of our members, and now you have shown up in our friendly thread where we talk and build friendships. FAWTL has grown over these past 2 years into a community of friends with different backgrounds, and beliefs united under the common interest of gaming and in the paizo community itself. We have started FAWTLcons in which some members have actually gotten together for a weekend of gaming. We help each other in any way we can. To be apart of this group you need to build those relationships, and in your case mend a few of them. If you don't you may post in this thread but you will never truly be apart of it, and you may never get responded to. Please understand that you entered this thread not to make friends but by being defensive. I do recognize we were lacking in tact by discussing other threads in here, but please analyze your intentions in this thread.

I have said my piece I hope you think it over

Taldor (Pathfinder Campaign Setting Superscriber)

baron arem heshvaun wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Pierce Watters also used to work at TSR.
Pierce Watters is the smooth operator who in Victorian times, would have been the unheralded, unseen and unassuming fellow who would be nothing BUT indispensable to the workings of Her Majesty's government.

Pierce 'Mycroft' Watters?

Taldor (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber)

ADVENTURES IN HOME OWNERSHIP #91
(91 is one of my favorite numbers because you may think it's prime, but it's prime factorization is 7 and 13. Number are funny like that.)

I was preparing a lasagna for a coworker. This guy is raising his granddaughter, a cute junior higher, because his daughter is bipolar and unable to care for her daughter. His wife has leukemia, diabetes, and is currently in intensive care because she's just been diagnosed with congesting heart failure. I could not, unfortunately, get the oven to turn on. After trying a few times, I got online and began to take it apart to see what was going on.

The oven igniter wasn't working.

since the broiler igniter IS working, I decided to go ahead and try to move the broiler igniter to the oven, and see if tht fixed the problem. It wouldn't cost me anything but time and effort, and the worst that would happen is I have to buy a new oven (well, except for house explosions, but I knew to turn off the gas valve), which, considering the stove came with the house and I think is original from when the house was built (i.e. is abot 30 years old), made more sense than paying $129 plus parts to have a repairman come out.

I fussed and struggled and cursed wished I had more tools, but eventually got the igniter off the thingy that realeases the gas (techincal, I know. Hey, I just observed the operation of the thing. Terminology is beyond me!) only to discover it had been replaced before....by an a@#*&%! that broke the original screw shafts off inside the original installation holes, and then somehow drilled through 1/16" of metal with another screw taht broke off while I was getting it apart. I have no way to make yet ANOTHER new hole in the metal connecter thingy on the gas releasing thingy to attach the igniter in the right place....so...it's looking like new oven time.

But you know what? I got that sucker apart. I got the broiler igniter ready to install, and if someone hadn't messed up a previous repair, I would have gotten my oven back. So while I may have failed, I consider this a moral victory.

Go me.


Spanky the Leprechaun wrote:
Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
So, how many of you guys are Texan? I've never been. I'm a Californian living in Colorado and moving to Montana soon.

Glad that jerkass troll didn't scare you off, Kelsey!!!

F*~! him anyhow's!!! A!#~+~!. You're kinda goofy, but you're allright.

I was the troll. I was having a really bad night, and made the thread in a pathetic attention grab.


Hi.

If you want to learn how to play using the Beginner Box, you should use the Beginner Box. NOT the Core Rulebook.

The Beginner Box was designed from the ground up to teach a new player how to play Pathfinder.

The Core Rulebook is a reference book that isn't designed to teach a new player how to play. In fact, it's not really good at teaching ANYONE how to play. It's not a teaching book, it's a reference book.

Put away your Core Rulebooks and start over with the Beginner Box. It's designed to let you play with it and not need any other game materials for a full 5 levels of play. When you've played a few sessions and have the hang of how things work (which may be after 1 level, or after 5), THEN you can consider looking at the Core Rulebook for what else you can do with the game. This isn't like skipping the tutorial in a video game and going right to the full game--what you're doing is like skipping the tutorial and using a friend's saved game to play from halfway through the full game, where there's already a plot, your character has 20 abilities, and a bag full of items you don't know how to use.

Take it easy. The Beginner Box was written to make it easy for you to get started. I worked my butt off for 5 months to make it like that. Give it a chance. :)


Alli (pup) is all curled up under the tree, trying to remind me that she was the best gift! We have kinda spoiled her, she sleeps in our bed, and goes with us every time she can, and any trip to the grocery leads to treats, my mom even packed her a doggy bag (heh) of pork bones tonight!


I still ♥ Treppa.♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

Paizo Employee (Webstore Gninja Minion)

CheshireElf wrote:

OK, time for someone at HQ to 'fess up - who's home game was it when somebody uttered the line "You know - wouldn't it be neat if......."?

Turns out, when somebody asks that question here, it sometimes ends up on the product schedule. :D

(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Battles Case Subscriber)

Hey, Gary, when I try to see who's favorited a post in a play-by-post campaign thread, like this one, it just takes me to the campaign info page. I know it used to work, so this is a relatively new development.


Goblin-ing is the new trolling?

SIGN ME UP.

Sort of an overt 'secret mode' - make a name that's against policy, end up a goblin. With the name modified enough to fit.

Omghax, Lawlmount, and Uberdood attempting to raid town would make for much mirth.


Dog is HOME!!!

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

(CEO, Goblinworks)

Kelsey Arwen MacAilbert wrote:
Specifically, I refer to the comments about the 4500 player limit being a guaranteed game killer, about the game using poor software, about you getting booted from EVE for being incompetent, the one about a PVP MMO not being able to capture what Pathfinder is, and the part about the whole thing taking place in one specific area of Golarion.

Sure, I can respond.

The idea of making a game that starts small and grows over time isn't unique to Pathfinder Online. Sometimes it happens on purpose and sometimes it happens on accident.

However, the MMO field is particularly challenging these days because there are about a million to two million "MMO Hobbyists", who aren't really vested in any one game, but are very vested in playing the latest new releases when they launch on the day they launch. These folks just crush a lot of games and the result is a huge spike in activity, followed by a sharp drop as they "finish" the game and exit.

Take a look at this graph for data that reflects this syndrome:

http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png

You can see the standout, can't you? It's EVE Online. A whole different growth pattern than its peers (at launch, or contemporary). If you exclude Second Life, it's also the only sandbox MMO on that chart.

If we went along with our plan to design the game to start small and then grow, and suddenly sprung that on folks at the last minute, there would be pandemonium and lots of feelings of betrayal from those who might feel we'd abused their trust.

By being up front about these plans now, we eliminate that problem. Everyone knows exactly what we're planning - no surprises.

As to it being "guaranteed to kill the game", well, if I believed that was even remotely likely to be the outcome we wouldn't be trying it.

(In fact, I fear the opposite scenario much more where too many people go into the sandbox too fast, and because there's no time for the economic, territorial or political system to develop there's nothing "to do" but kill one another, resulting in a dead-on-arrival scenario. CCP actually observed this directly when it launched EVE in China. The Chinese EVE server in many ways has never recovered from the fact that it launched with a "big bang" and delivered a sour experience for its early adopters.)

Obviously, we won't use poor software. That's just a silly concern. There are plenty of good options available, and Mark, our CTO is a very experienced software engineer who knows good code from bad code. The quality of the middleware options available today are extremely high - in some cases better than the games they were originally designed to support. Rather than "rolling our own", which is vastly more risky, we'll be going to market with software that has already been proven to work in games larger than the 3-year time horizon of Pathfinder Online we've discussed (120,000 or so paying players). Instead of finding out the hard way that the software can't deliver as expected (see: Conan, Darkfall, etc.), we'll remove that risk entirely.

I was very successful at CCP. The marketing team I led increased the subscribers of EVE Online by 50% (unheard of growth for a 5+ year old MMO). (Take a look at that chart again. I started in November of 2007 and left in November of 2010.) I hired the key leadership team of the marketing department, who remain in place and have been carrying the ball since my departure. I ensured the company was ready to plan for and launch the World of Darkness MMO and the DUST 514 FPS. I was fired from CCP because the CEO and I fundamentally disagree on the strategic direction of the company and he did not wish to continue to work with a head of sales & marketing who did not share his vision. They have announced 3 "triple A" titles, and my opinion is that they have the manpower and the resources to do two of them. Their recent 20% downsizing would seem to indicate that my analysis of the situation is more accurate than his, unfortunately.

Pathfinder Online isn't trying to 'capture' what Pathfinder 'is'. The brand is too large to be contained within the game we're building - or I would argue any digital product that could be built given today's technology. Pathfinder is many things to many people. Golarion is many things to many people. We are going to be some things to some people. Each individual player will have to decide on the merits of what we deliver if we've given them the Pathfinder they expect or not.

My personal opinion is that I have a pretty good idea of what the core drivers of the Pathfinder brand are, and they're not to-hit mechanics or the classification of combat actions. Those mechanics predate Pathfinder anyway. Pathfinder to me is a certain way of looking at fantasy roleplaying, a way that is heir to a 30+ year tradition. We'll get that tradition into the game in ways that surprise and delight our players. But you'll also see all sorts of new kinds of ways to play "Pathfinder" that are very hard to do on the tabletop - merchants and crafters and diplomats and soldiers and other kinds of characters who aren't a good fit for the "tabletop adventure game".

We're going to talk a lot about the geographical focus of Pathfinder Online in an upcoming blog, and as I've said before we are going to apply the rule of "underpromising and overdelivering" but here's one thing I can say that's just obviously true:

In a world with teleportation magic, it is not unreasonable to imagine excursions from one area of the world to another, to experience content variable in scope from small to vast. Over the years to come, I'm sure we'll all be surprised with the many kinds of places that Pathfinder Online characters may venture into.

(CEO, Goblinworks)

tad10 wrote:


Lol. Given you want a 120k playerbase I don't think this is going to work as well as you think it will.

It's statements like this that make me think your game is vaporware Ryan. :(

You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you?


Us too, I was thinking of getting them a onesy that says

Spoiler:
All my daddy wanted was a blow job!

But SM would probably kill me. :P

I really would never do that JSYK

aka DankeSean (RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32, 2011 Top 4)

I squee-d, literally made squeeing sounds, when I saw this. It's officially not the holiday season for me anymore til the announcement for the next contest is up and running. Even if I'm back to being a spectator this year, I don't care, I'm still all kinds of excited!


Ross Byers wrote:

I thought we fired the 12-year olds and replaced them with Roombas.

At least, I thought that's why we have a room full of Roombas with very clean keyboards.

Your avatar looks like an awakened Roomba. Maybe there's something Gary needs to tell you?


Cheapy wrote:
All the more reason to not allow it.

Paizo seems to see the worst case scenario with everything.

Shadow Lodge (Pathfinder Adventure Path, Tales Subscriber)

A couple of notes to the Frog God guys:

As of a few moments ago, the PDF I downloaded from bytes interactive / aplusdownload.com is still showing the 2d8 table on page 42, as opposed to the corrected 2d10 table.

Another note is that on DriveThruRPG, the Northlands Saga #2 is not availible, and Slumbering Tsar #5 and #7-11 are not available.


Morning FAWTL folks.

So lately our three year old has been asking for a puppy. Last night he tells me that he "pray for Christmas doggy". And last night a beautiful siberian husky walked into Solnes' store without tag or collar on, then proceeds to obey every command she is given. The dog is now in our house, as she followed my wife to her truck and jumped right in at the end of the night. She's housebroken, leash trained, and obeys very well.

Guess the Big Guy heard the little guy's wish.

(CEO, Goblinworks)

Love all the feedback on these threads!

A thing you should consider before posting your ideas is "what happens in a world where tens of thousands of people can react to the idea all at once"?

Let me give you an example. If you said "it would be cool if you left your mount standing outside a dungeon while you went exploring - because I'd like to be a mount thief who specialized in finding abandoned mounts and taking them", this is what the emergent behavior would be on the server: Nobody would ever leave a mount standing outside a dungeon.

That is, the ABILITY to do the thing you think is cool will cause all the other players to modify their behavior to avoid letting you do that thing. So you never get the cool payoff inherent in your concept but every other player on the server has to suffer by not using mounts. Obviously, that's not good design. :)

MMOs have been around long enough for many of these problems to have manifested in actual games. Players are fiendishly good at figuring out how to take ideas that seem "rational" or "realistic" and twist them in ways that utterly destroys the quality of the experience for most of the other players.

I'll give you a couple of examples so you can see the kinds of emergent things that happen.

In Ultima Online, you could build a house virtually anywhere. Eventually, people figured out that the real value of houses was not to use them as dwellings, but to use them as walls, since if you built them close enough together they were impassable. The result were large areas of the map that were inaccessible to anyone who didn't have the ability to bypass the walls of houses. Once a single group did this, every other group went into a land grab mode trying to seal off as large a territory as they could before competition from other groups interfered. The result was a map that turned into a chaotic maze of house-walls.

In Darkfall, every item you carry can be looted if you die. Since killing a single, fully equipped character is a much better source of getting good gear than grinding your way through dungeons or doing the resource harvesting/crafting cycle, it quickly became the norm for small groups to prey on anyone who dared to leave the safe confines of a city wearing decent gear. The result was that players started to play naked characters with a concentration on spells instead of items to do damage and the whole player economy and PvE adventure content died.

In Warhammer Online, high level characters could become tagged for retribution if they attacked low level characters. So gangs of low level characters would swarm high level characters engaged in PvE, eventually forcing the player of the high level character to "accidentally" hit one of them (or die from whatever monster was attacking them). Instantly the mob of low level characters would gang up on the now "criminal" high level character and kill it, getting rewards for doing so. Being a gang of low level characters was effectively a free pass to violate the games balance against PvP, at the expense of people who had put in the time to create high level PCs.

So when you're suggesting an idea, do these things first:

1: How will this work if 50 people have to all do it in series or in parallel?

2: How would a smart player who wanted to abuse this rule exploit it to cause someone else pain?

3: What kind of behavior would naturally emerge in a world where your rule was implemented - what's the effect of your cause?


Is there any other industry where the release of a new product triggers an inundation of "advice" from customers about how to avoid basic and obvious pitfalls, combined with ultimatums about how the product should be before the consumer agrees to buy it?

"You're building a new model of car? Better make sure it has wheels. Can't have a car without wheels."

"I prefer a motorcycle experience myself, so I don't think you should make a car. Make a motorcycle instead."

"Please tell me you're not going to do the whole 4-wheels thing. I'm so sick of that..."

Qadira (Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game, Campaign Setting, Companion, Battles Case Subscriber)

Freehold DM wrote:
Patrick Curtin wrote:
Wowsers! A Pathfinder MMO. Holy Camping the rare drops Batman!
don't know whether to laugh or cry... I know I don't have a computer capable of running it, but maybe it's time to give mmos a try after my last disastrous foray.

Dude we have to start a FAWTL guild when they fire that mother up


Antony Walls wrote:

This was predicted in years past...

"Special Abilities

Create Company (Su): With this ability, Lisa can create companies at the blink of an eye. Each company created has the ability once every five years to create a gaming phenomenon as a free action"

From Lisa's profile here:

http://paizo.com/people/LisaStevens

It has been five years since the Pathfinder RPG, hasn't it? :)

-Lisa

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