FrozenLaughs's page

I would streamline Feats into Feat paths/trees. Like Two Weapon Fighting; initially you buy the feat but it includes Improved and Greater automatically when meeting higher requirements. Improved TWF requires Dex 17 and BAB +6, I would start including more skill investments, like maybe 6 ranks of Acrobatics, to compensate for creating a Feat path, and Greater TWF might require 11 Acrobatics and maybe something else that fits thematically like lesser ranks in another skill or a different feat. Overall, you get all 3 feats from a single slot, freeing up one or two for other bonuses. The same can be done for the Critical, Shield, Crafting families etc etc.

I've always had trouble with the logic that you can buy TWF (or something equivalent) and over the course of 20 lvls NEVER get better at it naturally despite all the other improvements you automatically get with little or no choice, but I have to choose to get better at TWF even if I use it nearly every day for 20 years. Feat paths would make your feat selections feel more like optional class abilities that grow with you.

I just want to chime in, I really REALLY want to find out that the Sun Goddess is born a boy, throwing everything into chaos lol. Maybe have that magical disease try to effect it. Maybe that can lead to a cure? I know you said you have the ending planned already, have you made it past the crossing scenario yet?

Was she removed from family records due to being a bastard birth in some way, or did she do something aggregious to dishonor herself?

If a bastard, she may be the illigitimate heir to something, perhaps the crown is the key... (literally or figuratively) and the Aspis want it?

If dishonored, how? Did she became a vampire, or perhaps attempted lich-dom or some other extreme sacrifice for power? If she was a spy she could have any number of untold secrets the Aspis want. What if they were to commune/resurrect her for the hidden knowledge?

Would the players benefit more from uncovering the secrets, or protecting them? How historical/political do you like writing?

I just reread what I suggested and realized that I gave you very little usable information because I basically said b.s. them and improvise. I'm sorry. Have you tried hitting setting specific Wikis like Golorian, Kalamar, Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, stuff like that? They love to link historical story elements that you can probably adapt.

I'm having trouble imagining what would fuel that specific of a conflict, except maybe if it was an extremely Theological setting and they view only magic from the Gods as true/pure/good and Arcane powers as abominable, from mixed bloods and evil pacts etc etc. Little more in line with some real world history (Salem Witch trials, Spanish Inquisition etc.) Maybe set the story all on one side or the other, as either hunting Arcane casters in the name of the Gods (perhaps leading to a paradigm shift once they gain more understanding?) or put them on the Arcane side, on the run from the Inquisition, while they try to change perceptions and prevent persecution (little of the early X-men vibe?)

We managed to run a lengthy campaign for our Psychology elective back in H.S. We focused on the psychological aspects of roleplay, using each session in class as a sort of mock evaluation on each player. We observed social and play behaviors and lots of stuff, it was pretty cool.

I would consider using some pre established stuff with a twist. Outline your W's, "who, what, when, where and why". For example (from my campaign):

Where: I'm using Kalamar as my setting (got a great deal on the atlas, and really like the map) but I "scale" it that Golarion is simply on the other side of the planet. So no world map making.

When: Setting resources like history, cosmology and the like are readily available online from the right Wikis. So little original history generation needed.

Why: In my case, after Earthfall and during the Age of Darkness people migrated from the World Scar to the other side of the planet, because there was other land available. In your case, why the schism between magical Origins? Perhaps it's cosmology based, with the Gods themselves fueling the conflict?

Who: Again, in my case- the Azlanti that the Aboleth sought to eradicate fled, and created a small kingdom in the Wild Lands. In your case, it's your casting communities.

Now it comes down to the What: What is your story striving to combat/prevent/accomplish? For me, it's uncovering the mystery of this previously unknown kingdom buried under the ice (I added a magical glacier that's disappearing) What is your goal for the players?

Generally, I advise starting small. Not big. Start centralized and expand out as needed. Your players don't generally need a world until they have the powers and money to actually begin traveling it. But they need a reason to, and if your story stays centralized than so do your settings, and by proxy, your stories and histories and available information.

Basically I'm saying build out, not in. And here's the Dm's secret weapon (besides stealing from the players) Your players create more of the world than you do. Seriously. Give them vague ideas and concepts and listen to their interpretations of the info. See where their minds go, and feed off of those conclusions. Crowdsource your story from them, they'll feel smarter and more involved because they've "guessed right" a few times and you'll look more talented as you weave their ideas together into a better narrative.

Everybody seems to be ignoring the other large part of Sacred Weapon, the one that DOES benefit those who use a heavy hitting weapon...

At 4th level, the warpriest gains the ability to enhance one of his sacred weapons with divine power as a swift action. This ability grants the weapon a +1 enhancement bonus. For every 4 levels beyond 4th, this bonus increases by 1 (to a maximum of +5 at 20th level). If the warpriest has more than one sacred weapon, he can enhance another on the following round by using another swift action. The warpriest can use this ability a number of rounds per day equal to his warpriest level, but these rounds don't need to be consecutive.

These bonuses stack with any existing bonuses the weapon might have, to a maximum of +5. The warpriest can enhance a weapon to have any of the following special abilities: brilliant energy, defending, disruption, flaming, frost, keen, or shock. In addition, if the warpriest is chaotic, he can also add anarchic or vicious. If he is evil, he can also add mighty cleaving or unholy. If he is good, he can also add ghost touch or holy. If he is lawful, he can also add axiomatic or merciful. If he is neutral (with no other alignment components), he can also add spell storing or thundering. Adding any of these special abilities consumes an amount of enhancement bonus equal to the special ability's base price modifier (see Table 15–9 on page 469 of the Core Rulebook). Duplicate special abilities don't stack. The weapon must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus before any special abilities can be added.

But Grappling isn't alchemical, bomb or pure energy damage, it's physical based on your unarmed strike or spiked armor. I do see why it wouldn't work on Ray attacks though. Don’t get me wrong, I'm not arguing for or against it, (hence putting it in the Advice forum and not the Rule Lawyer one) it just made me giggle at 2am imagining a luchador themed warpriest with Sacred Grappling...

Is there any way/feat I'm not aware of that would allow a War Chaplain to pick up an additional Blessing, allowing War Chaplain to have two?

So here's where I'm at (if anyone is interested) I've currently designed a Warpriest of Irori for the IUS. Ive selected a character Trait (Shield Trained?) that makes Heavy Shields light weapons instead of one-handed, and used my free lvl1 Weapon Focus for Heavy Shield since unarmed is automatically a Sacred Weapon. Now I've stated 20 dex, and selected Two Weapon Fighting and Weapon Finesse so I can Dex my punches and shield attacks (because shield is now a light weapon and i have low TWF penalties). Planning on going Light Armor with Brawling combined with my high Dex and Heavy Shield for a great AC, picking up Improved Shield Bash at lvl3, and by 9 building myself into the Snake Stance tree with Snake Fang.

Typing it all out, I just realized I'm basically building Captain America...

Anyways, War Chaplain sounds awesome with Weapon Training (Close contains Heavy Shield and Unarmed) drops channeling and adds War domain, but I really REALLY like the Healing Blessing because it fits the style of play I want. Any suggestions?

Weapon Focus calls out Grapple as a specific attack allowed, just like Rays. Would this allow a Warpriest to apply Sacred Weapon bonuses to his grapples if selected? (or a Sorcerer/Warpriest with WF-Ray?)

I know, it's dumb; I simply noticed it while trying to design my Warpriest. I really want to do a Shield/Unarmed build (probably of Irori) but I can see the advantage of going War Chaplain, but I really like the Healing Blessing, and just can't create anything that blends everything I like.

Thus is life.

while those are the most common things for crafting there are much much more things that fall under what crafting can do, some are a lot more specific while others are more general all of which craft things as for being able to actually do the crafting step one master craftmen as well as 2 traits that will boost either crafting or profession (there's one that allows you to take 12 instead of take 10 and the other just gives a +2)step 2 craft wondrous items and step 3 craft arms and armor

You're completely ignoring everything I just said. What Craft_____ lets you make everything? Tell me please. Even taking Master Craftsman at level 5, you still need 5 ranks in a craft or profession. And Master Craftsman is only the basis for qualifying for Craft Magic Arms&Armor and Craft Wonderous Item, you would still need to purchase them at levels 7 and 9,unless you're claiming to Retrain your Character levels 1 and 3 (non FBF) feats, which you could technically do for CWI, but NOT CMA&A because it requires a caster level of 5 that you can't fake until level 5 with the purchase of Master Craftsman to begin with. So now you aren't even qualified for Craft Magic Arms & Armor until 7, and at this point you've invested half of what makes you a Fighter into being a smith...

And you still haven't clarified what Craft____ you've invested those precious 2+int mod (+human/fcb) skill points into. Do you have points into Profession? Can you run a business in your downtime to make money off what you make? Do you have points in Appraise, Diplomacy, or Sense Motive like a merchant would? Let's say you retrain to pick up Craft Wonderous Item after learning Master Craftsman at 5. Did you put points into Craft-Jewelery for the Wonderous Items like earrings, rings, amulets and necklaces? Or did you perhaps put them into Craft-Leatherworking to make those sweet gloves, boots, and headbands? What about Craft-Gemcutting to make those cool Figurines and Ioun Stones and stuff?

Or let's look at Craft Magic Arms&Armor. Do you have points in Craft-Armor or Craft-Weapons? Or are you arguing that something more universal like "Craft-Metalworking" is enough of a loophole to do everything? Because your Craft selections are literally THAT SPECIFIC, it's called out specifically in the Skill description that I not only posted, but YOU QUOTED and ignored. Bottom line, if you or your DM thinks that crafting is this cheap, broad and generalized then you are seriously abusing a system that neither of you seem to completely understand.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

Lady-J wrote:

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

Lady-J wrote:

retraining is a thing

Retraining doesn't bypass the limit that you, as a Fighter, don't have a caster level in which to take Crafting feats with, or that you can only take Master Craftsman for one Craft or Profession skill, period, and you can't take the feat multiple times to cover all forms of crafting. If you're going to argue that you can retrain Master Craftsman for each type of craft, then you're going to have to retrain every time you craft something different than what you crafted prior, which costs time (5 days per switch) and money (300g+ per switch), the former eating into your downtime, the latter eats into your WBL, resulting in less crafting money (and crafting time) for the stuff you're proposing (meaning you may not even craft what you propose).

You can try and justify your argument all you like, but the fact of the matter is that your playstyle is too much of an outlier to consider as something typical to a given table, which means suggestions like these aren't very helpful to the discussion.

while true you just need to be carful with what profession and crafting you choose that will allow you to do so with one skill

You wouldn't be able to craft both your belt/gloves and your weapon with this feat, whereas your calculations assumed that you could.

Needless to say, even giving you the most favorable outcome, you're still overbudget, and also, the likelihood that a Fighter will have the skill ranks or desire to take Crafting feats is a rarity of its own.

crafting an professions don't have predesignated terms like perform so all you would need to do is either pick a profession that can make all you need or take craft that would allow you to craft everything like craft equipment

Craft (Skill) :

(Int)
Source: Core Rulebook
You are skilled in the creation of a specific group of items, such as armor or weapons. Like Knowledge, Perform, and Profession, Craft is actually a number of separate skills. You could have several Craft skills, each with its own ranks. The most common Craft skills are alchemy, armor, baskets, books, bows, calligraphy, carpentry, cloth, clothing, glass, jewelry, leather, locks, paintings, pottery, sculptures, ships, shoes, stonemasonry, traps, and weapons.A Craft skill is specifically focused on creating something. If nothing is created by the endeavor, it probably falls under the heading of a Profession skill.

So YES, yes it does. There is no singular Craft or Profession that covers crafting of weapons, armor, accessories, jewelry or unsloted Wonderous item of all types of metal, leathers, clothes and gems. If your DM (or you) are allowing that much flexibility to the rules tgen there is a terribly daft lack of core understanding of the rules at your table.

Please provide a level by level break down of your proposed Fighter with a Str of 20 and all relevant crafting feats and illustrate how they aquired the prerequisites for them.

So... Force it into a death hibernation and leave it for a few eons and let Starfinder deal with it lol

Take it to zero HP however you do, then use a Wish to teleport the carcass to the deepest recesses of the bottom of the ocean.

"Regeneration also does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation."

Not counting the use of logic like lack of oxygen or crushing pressure; at best it regenerates once, tries to inhale air as the first thing it does and immediately begins making Constitution checks for drowning.

"When the character finally fails her Constitution check, she begins to drown. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hp). In the following round, she drops to –1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she drowns."

Or do we assume the Tarrasque's caveat of "nothing surpresses Regen" somehow applies to drowning in this one specific case?

Well everyone knows that anti-magic only goes so far, it's more that she has targeted the richey rich of the nation for sales. She markets herself as the only "Security Specialist" in the city and only builds locks, traps and vaults as her craft/profession. Basically we want it protected at a price that makes using most lower level magics useless, but the cost and requirements of high level magic to be counter-productive to stealing whats actually inside.

Everyone already knows there's a point where Mages can pretty much get anything they really want, any time they feel like it. The vault could locked away on another demiplane and some a&**%&& Wizard will eventually conjure up the right tuning fork lol

So basically whats happened is I've had two new players join my campaign and only one has any d20 experience. So I added a new sidequest to our game and had everyone roll up easier, lower level characters. The setup to get them together is that my NPC sold her first "inpenetrable" safe to the Merfolk and an artifact was stolen from it a couple weeks later; but there doesn't seem to have been any way the thief could have done it. So she gets the players together on a heist/manhunt quest to retrieve the artifact and possibly capture the thief himself, for... Interrogation. ;)

Essentially, I just need to create this so called "inpenetrable" safe that has the most failsafes and protections for its value. My idea was initially that the prototype cost wouldn't necessarily matter if she has a gimmick to cheat the system and duplicate it for her profit. (she's my NPC, and she runs the Thieves Guild so it's ok if she cheats the system)

I threw the entire scenario together off the top off my head because character designs changed at the last minute and screwed up my original plans lol.

So, even if Simulacrum hypothetically worked, it would only look like it is made of Adamantine, but it would only have half the hardness, hp and DR as adamantine? On top of half the Hp it gained when becoming Animated?

Your rebuttal simply highlights my points; you quoted my entire post when maybe you should have just BOLDED the points you're choosing to ignore.

No, the area that Forbiddance is applied to is the extradimensional space inside the box, not the inside of the box itself. She's basically crafting a Bag of Holding 4 but it's a metal box with a lid (just a specifically sized box with a door for the lid).

Are you saying that Forbiddance cannot be cast on the area inside a BoH, to damage anyone who reaches in without the password? I've never read an argument against the concept.

It's an Adamantine safe. Adamantine is a non magical material... Isn't it? I assume you mean if it's crafted into a BoH style Wonderous Item, it's considered magical and therefore cannot be Animated Object'd?

Wow. This entire debacle sounds like a train wreck that you just can't look away from. So many things have gone wrong over these sessions.

Yes, Pathfinder says it is 3.5 compatible. It is more in a sense that those rules were the foundation to the house Paizo built. Not really "grab any 3.5 book and have at it". The point of the Pathfinder system is balancing out all the b*#%&&+$ power balance issues that 257+ 3.5 books created. There's a reason the Prestige Classes took a backseat to Archetypes, and that Alternate Racial Traits were expanded on: they let you create that combination of abilities you want by simply making some tit-for-tat swaps. That's also why level adjustment shenanigans like Templates are practically gone. That's why there's so many fewer splat books.
I'm looking at my 3.5 shelf and I have 6 Complete books in sight. Flipping through them all, I'd wager there's at least 80 classes added. Probably more. Most contain the same combinations of "unique" abilities that I can reasonably emulate in Pathfinder with a simple Archetype or two, and maybe a few Racial traits. And still level a single class all the way to 20. (or at worst, dip a few levels of a basic dual class setup). Especially with the introduction of Hybrid classes.

But I'm seeing other issues too. You said that your Storyteller is 10 years younger than you? Did I read that right? As in, he's 10 and you're 20? Or he's 20 and you're 30? The lack of overall knowledge from all sides, coupled with poor grammer and the inability to concede mistakes on your own part impart a sense that everyone here is young and completely inexperienced. Having repeatedly defended your stance towards your character with "I've also Dm'd and it seems fine to me" tells me:

*You haven't Dm'd over a character as broken as yours
*You haven't Dm'd over a player as difficult as you
*You haven't played in any games where the DM had a firm enough grasp on the situations at hand
*Nobody at your table has a firm grasp on why Pathfinder is PATHFINDER and not 3.5

One of the first things you guys need to learn as both a new Storyteller and a new player is that limitations have to be set until the rules are understood. It's the "walk before you run" scenarios that are crucial to enjoying the game in the future, years down the road. If you're a new player or DM, you should be limiting yourself to things that you can handle, like basic races and core classes until you understand why they are designed the ways they are; why the changes were made in the transition from 3.5 to Pathfinder.

If you're either an experienced player or DM, (as you seem to fancy yourself) you should be addressing brand new players and DMs with the same approach. Build a simple character your young DM can understand, so they can learn why things are designed the way they are. You should be helping them "learn to walk" instead of throwing terribly designed, complicated, errata-designed homebrews at them when they don't know better to say no, and likely are trusting your proclaimed "experience" to mean you can police yourself. Which clearly hasn't yet been the case. Complaining they aren't sticking "within the rules" that they clearly lack understanding in isn't going to win you any cases, if you can't first identify the problem of why they so desperately need to resort to breaking those rules to begin with.

Your enjoyment really should be in your time with the people around you, not with imaginary numbers on a sheet of paper. If your sole measurements of entertainment are that you have the most overpowered character at the table to impress everyone, you're both in the wrong game, and at the wrong table my friend. If you aren't interested in playing something basic for the sake of the entire group, and the development of a new Storyteller, you're at the wrong table. All it can take is a single player to completely remove the desire to ever be a Storyteller again, ruining not only your current campaign, but the enjoyment of everyone who likes playing under them, and anyone who could potentially play with them in the future.

This entire thread has done nothing but make you all sound inexperienced, immature, short sighted and selfish. Hopefully you can take something from this and adjust your attitudes.

Ahhh, i hadn't considered the locks DC to be cut in half, its not really a skill or ability. Interesting. I wonder what other ways she can conceive of improving and duplicating this absurdly expensive prototype? Invisibility isn't a waste if it's not animated, but then you can't Mind Blank an object.

A Simulacrum of something with Wishes?

But the only spell added after the object was turned into a creature would be the Mind Blank, all the others were made permanent prior to the creatures "creation"?

So I have an Npc that is building and selling "impenetrable" safes, from which her very first production was robbed from. (The irony, right?) She then hires the group to hunt down the thief and return her clients valuables.

So here's what I have laid out in the design:

1. She crafts an Adamantine case, the size of a typical door (this can totally vary though) but only a foot or so deep. She crafts a Lead lined interior with a matching door. Making it relatively impossible for the average thief to penetrate or see inside of.

2. In the process of creation, she creates an Extradimensional Space inside, like a BoH.

3. After creation, inside the Extradimensional space she casts Forbiddance, with a password for the owner. This prevents any teleportation, ethereal, astral or summoning shenanigans to get inside the safe.

4. She installs in the door a superior lock with Arcane Lock enchantment, for a DC50. Disabling becomes extremely difficult for all but the best.

5. She casts Invisibility on it. It is now much more difficult to see/detect for the average thief.

6. She casts Permanency.

Now... This is where things get questionable...

7. She casts Animate Object on the safe, turning it into a Creature. She orders it to remain perfectly inert, but to attack anyone attempting to open it without both speaking the Forbiddance password, and using the correct key.

8. Again, she casts Permanency.

9. She casts Mind Blank on the (now a creature) safe, preventing it from being detected by any kind of Divination magic or any spell attempting to gain information about it.

10. Again, she makes it Permanent.

Now, (completely ignoring the costs/requirements of said creation) here's the most questionable part...

(?) She begins reproducing Simulacrum versions of her real (Construct) safe, and selling those for her profit.

*Can you Simulacrum a Construct Creature? It is, by definition, a Creature?
*Is making it permanently Invisible as an object moot once it becomes Animated? Or:
*Would it regain Invisibility the next turn after attacking?
*If it was not made permanently Animated, would it retain the effects of Mind Blank after reverting to an object again?

I used to have a DM that rigged traps in pairs, setting them to trigger *specifically* by the other one being disabled....

I would suggest first, adding fewer but bigger threat traps. A bunch of little hindrance traps are just that: hindrances. As stated above, a booby traps purpose isn't necessarily to kill, even slowing progress serves its purpose. But bringing the game to a halt every 2 minutes to roll dice really brings the fun down.

Second, there is such a thing as skill based encounters. Similar to EXP for traps, you can design areas to test the skills of characters. Complex climbing, dangerous jumping, perilous balancing, all can achieve the same effects as traps: difficulty, time, injuries.

Third, get your players OUT of the groove of constantly expecting traps. Make sure that your traps match the theme of where you're at too. Remember that traps cost money to create, construction time and costs to install, and not everyone has access to the magical means for more advanced magical traps. Not all places have (or warrent) traps.
*Mines, caverns and natural areas aren't likely to have anything except possibly the most basic things: trip wires to an explosive barrel, a beam holding up a small cave in, things like that.
*Areas built for utility reasons: Mines (again), dungeons, cell blocks, temples and similar buildings aren't likely to be trapped either. Even for the purposes of jailing creatures, most people won't have a desire to have escaping creatures outright killed, or why jail them? Why would a temple risk injuries among its staff or visitors? Why would a mine risk hurting it's workers?
*Tombs and Crypts: This is where it makes sense to have trapped areas. It's common for people to be laid to rest with the possessions they had in life. Treasures and riches always draw adventurers and grave robbers. Mechanical traps make the most sense here, as they would be built into the crypt. You're likely to see things that can be reset and reused, as well as threats like opening floors, spike pits, rooms that lock after entering, falling ceilings and others. Depending on the wealth of who is entombed, magical traps may also begin to be employed, but likely only for the most important areas/items.
*Exotic areas: Here's where magical traps make the most sense. A mages tower to guard their knowledge and wealth. Major institutions like banks and museums. Secret entrances nobody else is supposed to use/know about. The hideouts of the Big Bad and his minions.

And lastly, (as stated before) Detect Magic is simply going to tell you the presence, and then strength, and then finally the school of magic used to make whatever enchantments are in play. Your player is sniffing out auras, nothing more. His Spider Sense is tingling, but it's not pinpointing everything for him. Remember that materials of certain thicknesses block detection, as well as certain other counter spells. If he wants to drag the game down, start tracking the ACTUAL amount of time they're taking. Remind them that after 8 hours of their creeping pace they're tired and it might be time to rest. Remind them about their daily needs like rest and food. Make them realize how much more time they are burning. Have them find that magical treasure, but when they go to sell it have the merchant only offer them 25% of its value because:

"Well some other adventurous folks like you just came through and sold me a bunch of stuff just like this so I don't really need it or have the money, but if you had been here just a couple days ago... "

Weirding Blade - Nice nod to Dune
El-rad (or some variation) - A play on LRAD sound cannons used for crowd control
Noisy Cricket - Couldn't help but toss a MiB reference in.
Siren's Cry/Call - Nod to Siren mythos
Calliope - Could also work well with the right secondary, she was the muse of Epic poetry.

It's a Finnese weapon yes? Implying it has speed to it-
Allegro
Cadence
Cadenza
Calypso
Tempo
- all have a meaning of speed, albeit more of a musical touch.

You could also use more basic secondaries-
scream
howl
whisper
cry
call
shout
moan
roar
shriek
thunder

Ooooooooo I love that! That's a great idea.

Well the party doesn't know about the demons. They believe the one they killed was an isolated incident. The paladin npc doesn't have her powers currently, and the party is a Ranger, Sorcerer and Barbarian and the group is lvl 7. The Inquisitors are basically the churches hit team who just clean up whatever mess they're told to.

I'm thinking they're likely to break or free the paladin from jail, and if the Inquisitors are formidable enough it may lead into a manhunt scenario with the party trying to avoid them while uncovering the truth.

Just need some ideas to help flesh out an upcoming session. I have demons that have taken over the higher rankings of the church in an out of the way town in a remote region.

The players previously assisted a fallen paladin in rooting out a demon that had captured and tortured her. It was supposed to be a set up, but the players survived. Now Mother Superior (demon in charge) has declared the paladin "tainted" and gotten her locked up. Now Inquisitors are on the way to judge her (a farce, of course).

Besides busting her out of jail and holding off the Inquisitors, I'm coming up short on activities for the group. Anyone have any good ideas to help?

I have not read the rules for Drowning in quite awhile, I see I'm incorrect about Con damage. I wonder what I was thinking of.... Hmmm.

If a character takes a standard or full-round action, the remaining duration that the character can hold her breath is reduced by 1 round.

So if it's walking along the ocean floor or attempting to swim upwards, it's reduced to 34 rds? Either way, if it comes back to life 3 rds after death, does that magically expell the water from its lungs and refill them with oxygen? It should just end up in an infinite loop of drowning. At least, until the body floats to the surface... But that's not figuring pressure damage or anything from water depth...

For that matter teleport it to the elemental plane of water. Anyways, I'm way off topic for this thread. Are we cutting it in half at the waist, or lengthwise? Not that it matters by it's regeneration ability, but I'm wondering what has that kind of ability.

Teleport it to the bottom of the ocean. Regeneration doesn't heal Con damage from drowning. Done.

The moral planes are "Heaven". Every soul in existence has a moral alignment, and thus it's own version of "Heaven". Lawful Good souls go to LG heaven, or in this case, Heaven.

The soaring mountain of Heaven towers high above the Outer Sphere. This ordered realm of honor and compassion is divided into seven layers. Heaven's slopes are filled with planned, orderly cities and tidy, cultivated gardens and orchards. Though they began their existences as mortals, Heaven's native archons see law and good as indivisible halves of the same exalted concept, and array themselves against the cosmic perversions of chaos and evil.

Heaven has the following traits:

Divinely Morphic: Deities with domains in Heaven can alter the plane at will.

Strongly Law-Aligned and Strongly Good-Aligned

Enhanced Magic: Spells and spell-like abilities with the lawful or good descriptor are enhanced.

Impeded Magic: Spells and spell-like abilities with the chaotic or evil descriptor are impeded.

Whereas Chaotic Evil souls go to CE heaven, or in this case, The Abyss:

Surrounding the Outer Sphere like the impossibly deep skin of an onion, the layered plane of the Abyss begins as gargantuan canyons and yawning chasms in the fabric of the other Outer Planes, bordered by the foul waters of the River Styx. Coterminous with all of the Outer Planes, the infinite layers of the Abyss connect to one another in constantly shifting pathways. There are no rules in the Abyss, nor laws, order, or hope. The Abyss is a perversion of freedom, a nightmare realm of unmitigated horror where desire and suffering are given demonic form, for the Abyss is the spawning ground of the innumerable races of demons, among the oldest beings in all the Great Beyond.

The Abyss has the following traits:

Divinely Morphic and Sentient: Deities with domains in the Abyss can alter the plane at will, as can the Abyss itself.

Strongly Chaos-Aligned and Strongly Evil-Aligned

Enhanced Magic: Spells and spell-like abilities with the chaotic or evil descriptor are enhanced.

Impeded Magic: Spells and spell-like abilities with the lawful or good descriptor are impeded.

Two completely different afterlives for two completely different souls, who lived their lives completely different ways. The same holds true for the 7 other alignments.

Another thing that can be difficult for throwing, returning, ricocheting etc, is that a Miss doesn't technically have to mean an attack that flies wide. It can just as well be an attack that physically connects, but doesn't deal any significant damage. Ricochets still require something solid to bounce off of. Some storytellers can have difficulty grasping this concept.

Graystone is right, if it's for PFS you should get a pretty good response in their dedicated forum.

Honestly, I'd just like to play Monk/Barbarian.

I had a player who always wanted to play a Halfling Frenzied Berserker, we were going to forge an adamantine chain to an Immovable Rod and just let her go.

My favorite that I have actually played was (3.5)a Half Elf Paladin with a strength of 7, that had taken the Vow Of Poverty. It was a tough ride, but thanks to an awesome group that always had his back, he attained Sainthood at lvl 7! I always loved the Book of Exalted Deeds and the Book of Vile Darkness, hope Pathfinder gets something similar someday.

Please put me in the "all Knowledge checks" actually means what it says. Since a DC 26 Knowledge (engineering) check is a Knowledge check, a bard can attempt it untrained, even if a wizard couldn't.

This specifically; because that one esoteric bit of knowledge about Engineering, the Bard may have simply gleened from quickly perusing a manual or blueprint for a catapult once. He is by no means an expert on catapults or Engineering, but he really remembers that one picture really, really well.

This is the concept that Bardic Knowledge emulates. It's random facts, knowledge and trivia, gathered from a lifetime of travels. Bards would kick ass at Jeopardy and Trivial Pursuit, but they don't have to have actually STUDIED those particular subjects they're answering. (Honestly, don't we all have that one friend or family member like this?)

Startoss Comet is a special attack, once it's done hitting the target it's still flying in a single (albeit deflected) trajectory, so it bounces into another target. You're getting a free second attack off of the first. The full Startoss Comet attack isn't considered resolved until you determine if that second hit connects, and then Ricochet Toss brings it back.

We had the same discussion awhile back about whether a Barbarian could sneak attack while raging; because one of my players also DM's and in his game he rules No, because to him sneak attack requires a level of focus and attention that you clearly don't have while raging. I rule Yes, because I view Rage to be more of an adrenaline surge than a berserker fury.

Anyways, not trying to derail the thread, I'm just pointing out that it's going to come down to a lot of table variations. Normally I would argue for Yes, that Skald shows they wanted to make a class around this concept, and yet I can see arguing No, because Skald could just as well have been created because Barb/Bard doesn't function together...

Honestly, doesn't your Barbarian raging naturally inspire courage in the group anyways? LOL

Starting a bardic performance is a standard action, but it can be maintained each round as a free action. Changing a bardic performance from one effect to another requires the bard to stop the previous performance and start a new one as a standard action. A bardic performance cannot be disrupted, but it ends immediately if the bard is killed, paralyzed, stunned, knocked unconscious, or otherwise prevented from taking a free action to maintain it each round.

Rage does not prevent free actions. It also cannot be disrupted, reasoning that if you started Inspire Courage first, you could Rage the second round, not disrupt it, and maintain as a free action.

A bard is trained to use the Perform skill to create magical effects on those around him, including himself if desired.

While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration.

Perform is CHA based. So that creates the issue. Of course, one could rule the same type of "performance" to Inspire Courage could also be used to Intimidate... But then again you just end up with a House Rule.

A 1st-level bard can use his performance to inspire courage in his allies (including himself), bolstering them against fear and improving their combat abilities. To be affected, an ally must be able to perceive the bard's performance. (SNIP) Inspire courage is a mind-affecting ability. Inspire courage can use audible or visual components. The bard must choose which component to use when starting his performance.

What if the performance was simply "Visual Component: me raging"? Are we classifying "performance" to require use of the Perform skill, despite no actual die roll being made?

You are skilled at one form of entertainment, from singing to acting to playing an instrument. Like Craft, Knowledge, and Profession, Perform is actually a number of separate skills. You could have several Perform skills, each with its own ranks.Each of the nine categories of the Perform skill includes a variety of methods, instruments, or techniques, a small sample of which is provided for each category below. (SNIP)

Oratory (epic, ode, storytelling)

Does raging prevent you from talking, yelling, strategizing and giving commands? How about simply Perform (battlecry)?

Honesty about situations and mistakes will get you miles further with your players than lying ever will. We have a recap before every session and if I made mistakes I'm straight up front about it. I like to let them know what I did wrong so that they don't repeat it in the future, or they can catch me if I accidentally start doing it again. Sometimes I even refund some resources, like if I calculated a hit bonus wrong and I know a player took a couple hard hits that should have missed; I may be inclined to give a potion back, or add a couple Cure spells back to the Cleric. Players don't expect you to be a rules dictionary, they just expect you to provide an entertaining game. It's not You vs. Them, and lying to them and being underhanded makes it that way.

FrozenLaughs wrote:

And for people who run primarily off of the SRD resources, only the APG and Tech guide are on that list, which to be fair does add almost a dozen I wasn't thinking of.

Actually, it is the PRD which would only include the APG and Tech Guide.

The SRD and Archives of Nethys both include all of the prestige classes from the books on that list.

Quote:

Not a lot of us own all the splat books and Golarion setting specific stuff (gods know I wish I could)

I recall comments from Paizo staffers that they view prestige classes as being inherently tied to specific cultures and organizations... hence the vast majority of them are found in setting specific books... which are not included on the PRD.

Oh hey, good catch! I primarily use a PRD thats available on my phone app, so I forget what they're called. Secondly,

Holy F@&$

I've never seen Archives of Nethys! Wow! Wonky on my phone browser, but wow! Thanks for sharing that gem :D

Firewarrior44 wrote:

Charon's Little Helper wrote:

Ryan Freire wrote:

Charon's Little Helper wrote:

To me it's not really about the player agency thing.

It's the lying thing.

I simply don't like liars. I don't associate with them if at all possible. I don't see anything good coming from lying to your friends.

Thats your hangup. The reality is its a COMMON gm tool and your choice to associate that tool with the stark phrase "lying to your friends" is a poor rhetorical attempt to erase both context and scale.

It's one thing if you're upfront and tell them that you may fudge occasionally. Then it's not lying.

If you told this player that you were nerfing all of his actions behind the screen, that wouldn't be lying either, but I'm rather dubious that he'd be okay with it.

If you feel the need to lie in order to take an action because you .don't want to deal with the repercussions of being upfront about it Then it's probably not an action that you should be taking.

Omission isn't the same as lying, and frankly this isn't even lying, its a gm actively managing the story.

Lying isn't inherently bad, but it's entirely situational on how you do it. You should never be lying to your players to create a detrimental effect. They shouldn't be missing when they should be hitting, they shouldn't be getting hit when the monster should be missing, the monsters shouldn't be making every single spell save, etc. You should only be lying when it creates a beneficial effect to your group: The monster's critical hit becoming a regular hit, or the player's 20 damage suddenly killing the monster with 24 hit points, because you know that if that player goes down it's likely going to lead to a full party wipe.

Alternatively, you may have also discovered that your BBEG that you designed to be a fun and challenging encounter is extremely underpowered and you may find that you need to fudge dice rules: add hit points, increase AC, or other things just to simply pad him out and make him more formidable than you originally had planned. If nothing else, you might just need to keep the encounter running for that extra 30 minutes because in the end you know full well they're going to beat him one way or the other so you might as well make it entertaining. Those are the kind of lies that should be happening, if any need to be made at all.

I feel like there's a lot of particularly bad advice going on in this thread right now. The goal of the game is not to Nerf the one player who's built to do one thing exceptionally well. The goal is to entertain everyone as close to equally as possible by providing the different facets of the story that everyone is looking for. I'm going to throw down a long wall of text for a viewpoint to consider. I won't quote the source, but many who played prior to Pathfinder have probably read it:

Accumulating cool power

One of the games central incentives, the pursuit of even mightier powers is also the easiest to put into play because the accumulation of experience is central to the game. Powers can be anything that increases a PCs effectivenes, from increased attributes, to feats, to spells and magic items.
Almost all players enjoy adding these goodies to their character sheets. They plan ahead, carefully weighing their options, deciding what they will pick next. New abilities are a gift that keeps on giving: players feel a sense of reward when they gain experience points. They get the sense of reward all over again when the experience points garner them new abilities. When they actually get to use their abilities in a game situation? You guessed it- they experience that sense of reward again.
This incentive appeals to one of the most reliable human motivators: ambition. The instinct to collect valuables has been hardwired into the human brain since Homo sapiens first roamed the grasslands searching for nuts, berries, and the occasional tasty Mastodon. Throughout history people have been awarded status according to the desirability of their possessions. Players who love to pump up their characters are simply taking this principle and translating into game terms
Because pumping up is so straightforward and popular, some storytellers deride it. But there's nothing inherently wrong with seeking more power for your character. Do Monopoly™ players feel guilty about putting hotels on Park Place? Of course not.
As a storyteller, realize that "power gamers" are your ally because motivating them is always straightforward. Any encounter offering experience points contains a rock-steady incentive to draw them in. Almost any scene you devise to appeal to any other players case can also be made into a power gamer's delight by dangling an alluring treasure, a generous experience award, or a coveted magic item.
More so than other kinds of players, power gamers can be self-entertaining. They can derive great enjoyment from the game even when they're not at the table. They're dreaming up future variations on their characters and pouring over supplements looking for new options.
All that time mastering the nuances of their character means that the power gamer might know the rules concerning their own abilities even better than you do. A player who has this trait won't be shy about expressing his opinions about how the rules out to work. Don't look for ways to say no to him- find ways to say yes. Create encounters where he's meant to gain powers and show off his current abilities. As long as you make him work for his power-ups there's no problem in doling them out.
though most storytellers think of power accumulators as those players who seek out the abilities that give them the biggest bang for the smallest cost (min-maxers) this isn't necessarily the case. Players whose characters methodically acquire the requirements for a Prestige class for storytelling reasons can be just as focused in pursuing their goals, so they are just as easy to motivate with another batch of experience points

Combat also fosters the game's biggest sense of jeopardy; never are the players at greater risk for more sustained periods then when the fighting starts.
Understand that players who enjoy combat come to the table specifically for this heady mix of feelings. You don't have to convince them to get as excited about other aspects of the game to consider yourself a good Storyteller. If you and your group love skirmishes and want to run them all night long, you are playing the game as well as anyone else. Some combat fans are dedicated rule crunchers who comb the rulebooks and other supplements for the perfect combination of weapons, feats, and Maneuvers. Other players just want the simplest character sheets possible, so they can get to the bashing right away.
At first glance, butt-kickers are at least as easy to please as power gamers. Players who have this trait tend to stay happy if you keep the enemies coming. However, supplying lots of fights is no substitute for running battles that are truly exciting. As you run combats, keep in mind the excitement and sense of vicarious mastery fight lovers are looking for. Make your scenes come alive. Supply a bone-crunching description when a player, especially a combat fan, dishes out a particularly mighty blow. Keep the focus on the characters engaged in the fight and not just on the dice that are rolling in front of you.
The Challenge in dealing with action-oriented players is keeping their attention between battles. If you let them go too long without a good scrap, they might find one you weren't planning on. Tavern fights are always a popular Trope of choice for bored smiters of evil. They might surprise you by attacking non-player characters who are supposed to provide them with resources or info, or by launching sudden frontal assaults on superior foes. This syndrome is easily cured: always have a quick, fun battle in your back pocket- villains ready to kick down the door and attack- fir times when the fight fans began getting restless.

Communication is especially important here. You need to be communicating with all of your players and making sure that not only do they understand the type of game you want to run, and the type of story you want to tell; but that you understand the roles that each player is looking to fulfill in their enjoyment of the game. There should never really be a situation where you have to take any one player aside (short of perhaps some secret storytelling) and hash things out one-on-one. Everybody should be on the same page, because they're all playing the same game together.

And of course, you will want to highlight his weaknesses. Point out his shortcomings in subtle ways: skill checks that are easy for the group but difficult for him, role playing and character development that he may fall short on. Highlight how the other players are excelling in areas that he has chosen not to consider or has completely ignored. Design areas that are easy for the rest of the group: role-playing situations and story interactions that the rest of the players can handle. Don't make him feel like you're picking on him, simply illustrate why his style of character isn't necessarily the best choice. Toss in situations that he can only get through with the assistance of the rest of the group.

The game should never be about outright penalizing players because they have a character that doesn't fit the story or doesn't quite fit the group. (barring evil just to be evil and similar examples) The Soul of the game is about adapting and overcoming adversity. Let each player shine in the way that they are most comfortable, but still encourage them to play and think outside of their usual comfort zone. Remember you're all together to have fun, and the Players will actually tell you 50-75% of the story for you, if you give them the chance, and the right nudges when they need it.

FrozenLaughs wrote:

dragonhunterq wrote:

Graystone is right. Paizo have not been subtle about supporting single class characters, and especially not liking prestige classes. I'm not sure if they have out and out said they would get rid of prestige classes if they could, if they haven't they have come pretty close at times.

Considering it's practically only the CRB that has PrC at all pretty much highlights that stance.

Yep. Just the CRB.

...and the Advanced Player's Guide.

...and the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting.

...and Paths of Prestige.

...and Seekers of Secrets.

...and The Inner Sea World Guide.

...and Inner Sea Magic.

...and Inner Sea Combat.

...and Inner Sea Gods.

...and Pirates of the Inner Sea.

...and Occult Mysteries.

...and Princes of Darkness.

...and Lords of Chaos.

...and Horsemen of the Apocalypse.

...and Chronicle of the Righteous.

...and Champions of Balance.

...and the Technology Guide.

...and People of the Sands.

...and Undead Slayer's Handbook.

...and the Pathfinder Society Primer.

...and City of Strangers.

...and Dark Markets, A Guide to Katapesh.

...and Qadira, Gateway to the East.

...and Taldor, Echoes of Glory.

...and Andoran, Spirit of Liberty.

...and Elves of Golarion.

...and Halflings of Golarion.

...and the Second Darkness Player's Guide.

...and various Adventure Path volumes.

Yep. When you look at it, their abandonment of prestige classes is really quite obvious.

And for people who run primarily off of the SRD resources, only the APG and Tech guide are on that list, which to be fair does add almost a dozen I wasn't thinking of. Not a lot of us own all the splat books and Golarion setting specific stuff (gods know I wish I could)

Aelryinth wrote:

'ignores' does not mean 'passes through'. It means it ignores it. The mechanical text says 'it does no harm to it'. Not that it passes through it.==Aelryinth

Quote:

A brilliant energy weapon ignores nonliving matter.

Rules Text stating basic property of Brilliant Every weapons.

Quote:

Armor and shield bonuses to AC (including any enhancement bonuses to that armor) do not count against it because the weapon passes through armor.

The following sentence does not modify the original statement; it clarifies a specific interaction.

See, I agree that's the problem-too many players read that description and they immediately picture a lightsaber.

*Brilliant Energy
*passes through Armor
*ignores non living matter

Ignores is the big factor here, and heres an example why:

Weapons fashioned from adamantine have a natural ability to bypass hardness when sundering weapons or attacking objects, ignoring hardness less than 20 (see Additional Rules).

Players read that block of text and immediately think of Wolverine and his Adamantium claws that slice through almost anything. How does Adamantine ignore hardness less than 20? It slices straight through it.

Players overlay their interpretation of one as the default interpretation of the other. They read the flavor text, imagine a sword of light, see the word ignore, read that it's a +4 enhancement near the bottom of the list, automatically assume due to that fact that it must be one of the most powerful enchantments in the game, and arrive at the Lightsaber conclusion.

Graystone is right. Paizo have not been subtle about supporting single class characters, and especially not liking prestige classes. I'm not sure if they have out and out said they would get rid of prestige classes if they could, if they haven't they have come pretty close at times.

Considering it's practically only the CRB that has PrC at all pretty much highlights that stance.

Bonus feats awarded for Fighter levels are specifically refered to as Fighter Bonus Feats in multiple sources, and are supposed to be denoted, as they are not in fact "just combat feats".

Core Rulebook FAQ

Fighter: What feats can I retrain at level 4, 8, and so on?

Class entries in the Core Rulebook are written assuming that your character is single-classed (not multiclassed). The fighter's ability to retrain feats allows you to retrain one of your fighter bonus feats (gained at 1st level, 2nd level, 4th level, and so on). You can't use it to retrain feats (combat feats or otherwise) from any other source, such as your feats at level 1, 3, etc., your 1st-level human bonus feat, or bonus feats from other classes.
(THIS INCLUDES THE SENTINEL BONUS FEAT YOU GET AT LVL 2 BECAUSE IT'S GAINED FROM SENTINEL NOT FIGHTER)

You may want to asterisk your fighter bonus feats on your character sheet so you can easily determine which you can retrain later.

posted June 2013

Graystone has been correct on every counterpoint about Bonus Feats from each class being specific to each class/archtype, but earned cumulatively.

1. You never learn the Class abilities Weapon Training 1-4 as a Weapon Master. Weapon groups are a Class feature, not a feat.

2. You don't know a single Weapon Group, only your mastered weapon type.

3. Advanced Weapon Training is a Class ability, not a feat.

Beginning at 9th level, instead of selecting an additional fighter weapon group, a fighter can choose an advanced weapon training option for one fighter weapon group that he previously selected with the weapon training class feature.

4. See the Bold? You have neither.

At 2nd level and again at 7th level, the sentinel gains a bonus feat in addition to those gained from normal advancement. These bonus feats must be selected from those listed as combat feats. Sentinel levels stack with fighter levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats with a fighter level prerequisite.

You cannot take the Advanced Weapon Training feat either:

You are specially trained to use your weapon skills in new ways.

Prerequisite(s): Fighter level 5th, weapon training class feature.

Benefit(s): Select one advanced weapon training option, applying it to one fighter weapon group you have already selected with the weapon training class feature.

Again, you traded those Class features to become a Weapon Master.

If you're a GM who says no to this, we just can't be friends. I'm sorry, but life's too short.

Presumably, the only realistic portion of the sword to be hit/parried would be the grip in his hand?

Pull a Vader... Parry his hand off. Problem solved, and should fix that pesky pvp problem you're having.

At 1st level, when an opponent makes a melee attack against the swashbuckler, she can spend 1 panache point and expend a use of an attack of opportunity to attempt to parry that attack. The swashbuckler makes an attack roll as if she were making an attack of opportunity; for each size category the attacking creature is larger than the swashbuckler, the swashbuckler takes a –2 penalty on this roll. If her result is greater than the attacking creature's result, the creature's attack automatically misses. The swashbuckler must declare the use of this ability after the creature's attack is announced, but before its attack roll is made. Upon performing a successful parry and if she has at least 1 panache point, the swashbuckler can as an immediate action make an attack against the creature whose attack she parried, provided that creature is within her reach. This deed's cost cannot be reduced by any ability or effect that reduces the number of panache points a deed costs.

Seriously though, it never technically says your weapons connect, it simply states they automatically miss. And it never technically states you strike their weapon, you make an attack roll as if you were making an AoO, meaning you apply appropriate bonuses, etc.

The Alchemist Grenadier archetype has this ability at 6th:

Directed Blast (Su) wrote:

At 6th level, a grenadier can detonate a bomb so that it splashes in a 20-foot cone rather than affecting a radius. The cone starts at the alchemist and extends away from her in the direction she chooses.

The first square of the cone begins in front of you (normally) right? So:

------x
----xx
Pxxx
----xx
------x

Is there a reason that by the wording, you couldn't drop the bomb in the square in front of you as normal but face it to right or to the left? Technically the cone still begins at you and travels away... It would be like tossing a claymore on the ground in front of you, facing to the side.

------x
----xx
--xxx Player facing up ^
--Pxx
------x

Which could technically let you fire around a corner, if you were standing at one. And no I'm not advocating this, simply entertaining the theory lol.

I would presume that the half plate has some sort of enchantments or bonuses that makes it enticing to upgrade? I don't see why just paying the cost difference between the two as work and materials and adding some time to craft wouldn't suffice? Why are we valuing the half plate at half value before the upgrade though, he's not technically selling it? We only value things at 50% for the merchant markup for resale.

As far as I'm concerned, you've cast magical enchantments upon your physical body, much in the way that you would enchant a weapon. You've made them permanent, just as you would a weapon or any other object. Your enchantments remain upon the body even as the soul leaves the body, because it's not the soul that is enchanted, just the vessel.

If you are polymorphed permanently and then die, does your soul travel to the appropriate Plane looking like an Elf, a women (if you were male) or a frog? No. You go back looking as you did when you were created. Reincarnation? That's a whole different discussion that could be argued either way.

Anyways, does a broken weapon lose its enchantments when broken? No. (unless I've blatantly missed a rule) Destroyed? Yes, there's nothing left to physically hold the magic so it dissipates. Why are we applying different logic to a body?

I'd say it's a basic Trip roll vs. the horses CMD, not the riders. If the Trip is successful than the rider should receive a Ride check to safely dismount into an adjacent square, or fall prone himself.

Don't creatures with extra legs gain like +4 or +8 against being tripped, or is that some old rule I'm thinking of?

I would say a bonus move action to show just how fast he's moving, or ruling him #1 on the list regardless of final totals. Easy peasy.

Hmmm after reading this thread I've changed my initial stance.

Craft: Writing to actually turn your ideas into legibly written books and scripts.

Profession: Playwright to convince other people to buy your books and scripts, and to convince people to act in your plays. Also to aid other blossoming writers in their pursuits.

Perform: Oratory to actually act out the scenes of a play, to convey the words and emotions of the characters to both the audience during a show and the actors during rehearsals.