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Roy Greenhilt

Fromper's page

FullStarFullStarFullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 5,481 posts (5,977 including aliases). 4 reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist. 18 Pathfinder Society characters. 2 aliases.

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Silver Crusade ***

So I could swear I saw this mentioned here somewhere, but I can't find it now, and I don't remember if there was a definite answer.

If a paladin is in the Silver Crusade, and finishes 4 goals on their faction card, what does this benefit do for them (if anything):


MIRACLE WORKER (4+ goals): Once per adventure, you can use the lay on hands class feature as though you were a paladin

whose level equals the number of goals you have completed.

Does it mean they get an additional use of Lay On Hands, using a different level than their actual paladin level, beyond their normal LOH ability? Or does it just not benefit paladins at all?

Silver Crusade

So I'm GMing a campaign with an oracle who has Divination as a known spell. The spell description specifically says that you know the spell failed if you don't roll high enough on the base chance of success. That's happened once or twice before, and we just say that the spell fizzles.

My question is how should I handle it if the spell is prevented from working by outside magic? ie They try to ask a question about something with extremely powerful magic that prevents divination type spells from working on it? We're getting into higher levels where such stuff does exist in this campaign.

I'm debating between giving them an answer that says that the truth is hidden, or just having the spell fizzle as if they rolled too low. What would the rest of you do as GMs?

Silver Crusade

Back by popular demand! Or not...

My party just killed Mokmurian and used the library below Jorgenfist very well (they got all the info available). Now, they're trying to decide what to do next, and they've got LOTS of leads they want to follow and questions to ask, and nothing immediate to do that would prevent them from just casting Divination over and over, since the oracle has it as a known spell. They'll make their way back to Sandpoint eventually - they already teleported back there to pick up Brodert Quink and bring him to the library to help with research, so they'll need to return him in a week or two, tops. I dropped a hint about the earthquake, but didn't go into detail yet. But once they go back there, that will be the plot hook to get them into Sins of the Savior.

But in the mean time, they're emailing back and forth about the many, MANY questions they're thinking of researching in our next session. Things like the locations of Runeforge and Xin-Shalast, details about Karzoug, etc. They even thought about the very proactive question of where else large number of people may have been marked with the Sihedron star, so their deaths will fuel Karzoug's rise.

And unfortunately, we're playing this weekend, so I don't have a ton of time to prep for all this. I'll come back here later with more specifics, but if anyone has thoughts on dealing with the most obvious questions, let me know.

Silver Crusade

So in an adventure path I'm GMing, we're up to high enough levels that they just faced a big bad with Disintegrate, and the group's oracle went from full HP to pile of dust in a single shot. He's debating if he wants to be revived or just make a new PC.

They did beat that bad guy in the end, and he had a scroll of Limited Wish. Reading the spell description, it can't duplicate a Resurrection spell to bring the disintegrated guy back, but could it be used to get him part of the way there? For instance, "I wish instead of a pile of dust, Relyn was a fully intact corpse in the same condition he was in at the time of his death (other than being dead)" in order to get his body back so they can use a Raise Dead on him?

The point is that they already had a Raise Dead scroll, and now they have a Limited Wish scroll, so do they really need to spend money on Resurrection instead of using the two scrolls they already have? Of course, they still need to hire someone to cast them, since the pile of dust was the party healer.

Silver Crusade

As mentioned elsewhere, I recently bought the Familiar Folio, and got the idea in my head of doing a Patfhinder Society PC based on Boon Sai Hong and Po Po from the old comic book series, Way of the Rat. It's a Chinese themed medieval fantasy series about a thief who accidentally steals a magic item that makes him a master of staff combat, and becomes a hero, with a talking monkey as his mentor.

Again, this is for Pathfinder Society, so RAW only, Paizo sources, PFS legal, etc.

I've decided to go Nature Fang archetype for Druid, with the Monkey domain for the familiar and other benefits. The idea will be a light armored, highly acrobatic two weapon fighting (both ends of the staff, since it's a double weapon) Shillelagh master... with a monkey.

The monkey is non-negotiable, even though there might be better domains for boosting my staff combat abilities, or grabbing an animal companion capable of flanking with me and doing some damage of its own. Actually, the Monkey Domain is pretty good in its own right. The monkey familiar gives +3 acrobatics, the 1st level power can boost my acrobatics or other skills a few times per day, domain spells include Spider Climb and Freedom of Movement, which are excellent. All in all, it's a pretty good domain that suits my theme well.

So here's what I've got so far:

Str: 18 (10 +2 racial)
Dex: 15 (7)
Con: 14 (5)
Int: 7 (-4)
Wis: 14 (5)
Cha: 7 (-4)

Unfortunately, that loses a point in 20 point buy, but there's no way around that. I need high strength for melee, 15 dex for the TWF feats, 14 wisdom for casting (which will still need to be boosted with a headband later), and the highest possible Con for survivability, especially since it determines the familiar's HP, too. That's also why I'm taking Toughness up front.


Rice Runner: +1 acrobatics and it becomes a class skill - Goes well with the Monkey domain, and helps me get flanks, which are good for hitting more and harder, since this archetype gets a 1d6 sneak attack at level 4.
Magical Lineage (Shillelagh): I know it sounds silly, but staff fighting is this guy's entire shtick, so applying Quicken to this at level 7 in a 4th level spell slot should be worth it.

Feat/Slayer Talent Profession:

1: Toughness
1: Two Weapon Fighting (Human Bonus)
3: Weapon Focus: Quarterstaff
4: Two Weapon Defense (Slayer Talent - Ranger Combat Style Feat)
5: Dodge or Power Attack (depending on which I think I need to boost more at that point - armor class or damage)
6: Improved Two Weapon Fighting (Slayer Talent - Ranger Combat Style Feat)
7: Quicken Spell
8: Dodge or Power Attack (Slayer Talent - Rogue Talent: Combat Trick)
9: ?
10: Two Weapon Rend (Slayer Talent - Ranger Combat Style Feat)
11: ?
12: ?

For those levels when I'm not sure what to take, Double Slice, Improved Initiative, and Combat Reflexes look like possibilities. Also, since I'm not entire sure if Improved TWF will work before my BAB hits +6 at level 8, I might switch those level 6 and 8 slayer talent choices.

My two big concerns are that I won't hit often enough or have high enough armor class. When I do hit, I should do plenty of damage, though. 2d6+1 for Shillelagh, 1d6 sneak attack after level 4, strength bonus, and eventually Power Attack and Two Weapon Rend. I'll be relying on sheer quantity of hits per round more than anything, though.

For the AC, I'm sticking to light armor so I can acrobatics past enemies, and there's no material druids can wear that makes medium armor into light like mithral, so I'm limited to +4 base armor bonus on my armor. I'll have some dex, and that's why I prioritized Dodge and Two Weapon Defense as feats. Mobility might even be a possibility for higher levels.

I've also decided to give Po Po the monkey the Protector archetype, so he'll start with Combat Reflexes and Bodyguard, and be able to boost my AC by +2 against 3 attacks per round while sitting on my shoulder. The only down side there is that it might make him a target, and his own AC and HP will be even worse than mine. Can he wear armor? But that's also why I want 14 constitution, Toughness, and probably most of my favored class bonuses in HP - both human and monkey really need all the HP they can get.

As for hitting in combat, I'm 3/4 BAB with -2 to hit from TWF, which is tough. Studied Attack should help with that, and it's why I'll take Weapon Focus so early. Not being able to upgrade my staff will hurt, too - Shillelagh makes the staff +1, but it only works on non-magical weapons, so I can never get a bigger enhancement bonus than that for my hit rolls. I guess that's the advantage of getting extra attacks per round from TWF and ITWF - I may miss on half of them, but I'll still do decent damage on the other half.

I'm sure I'm missing options that would work well for this guy. Any suggestions?

Silver Crusade

We've got at least two of the season 7 adventures that use heavy amounts of stuff from Occult Adventures, and pregens based on all the new classes that can be used in PFS games. So it really bugs me that the book isn't on the PRD yet.

Silver Crusade

This is for Pathfinder Society, so Paizo sources only, RAW, etc.

I'm building a Druid with the Nature Fang archetype. So he'll be a strength based melee guy who never gets wildshape.

I'm thinking maybe 14 dex starting, a domain bonus to acrobatics, and probably a feat to get acrobatics as a class skill, so I'm looking at a decent acrobatics. I really want to be able to acrobatics around enemies to get into flanking position regularly, both for the bonus to hit, and because my archetype gives a sneak attack.

But wearing medium armor or carrying a load that slows you down prevents using acrobatics this way. So what's the best PFS legal armor a druid can wear that doesn't slow your speed?

I know a mithral breastplate doesn't slow your speed, but that's metal, so it's out for a druid. Is there a non-metal material that does the same thing? Or am I stuck settling for light armor with lower AC if I don't want to be slowed down by my armor?

Silver Crusade

This is for PFS, so RAW only, Paizo sources, etc.

I never thought this would happen, but I'm planning a build and actually get more feats than I need.

I'm going Warpriest of Shelyn, sticking to her favored weapon of glaive. I know there are better reach weapons, but this guy's personality is more dedicated to his goddess than to combat, so he'd stick to her favored weapon for flavor reasons.

I was already thinking human for the flexible stat bonus (strength), extra feat, and extra skill rank per level. Then I saw the favored class bonus that gives an extra combat bonus feat every 6 levels. So being human lets him get extra feats at levels 1, 6, and 12. Since this is for PFS, that's as far as I'm planning.

I'm not married to being human, though. I'd consider other races that can get a strength bonus, especially half-orc, taking the alternate racial trait that gets the extra skill rank per level like a human. I like skills, and this guy won't get very many ranks.

So here's the feat progression I'm thinking about, but if anyone has recommendations for changes, I'd appreciate it.

1 - Combat Reflexes
1 - Toughness (human bonus feat)
1 - Weapon Focus: Glaive (warpriest bonus combat feat)
3 - Weapon Focus: Cestus
3 - Power Attack
5 - Pushing Assault
6 - Weapon Specialization: Glaive (warpriest bonus combat feat)
6 - Dodge (warpriest bonus combat feat from favored class bonuses)
7 - Improved Initiative
9 - Vital Strike
9 - Greater Weapon Focus: Glaive (warpriest bonus combat feat)
11 - Quicken Blessing
12 - Greater Weapon Specialization: Glaive (warpriest bonus combat feat)
12 - Pin Down (warpriest bonus combat feat from favored class bonuses)

Combat Reflexes is obvious for any reach PC, and Toughness will help me survive low levels on the front lines with d8 HP and my favored class bonus going into extra feats.

I'm still debating which Weapon Focus to take first - glaive or cestus. The glaive will be my primary weapon, and the cestus will be for enemies that get inside my reach. I chose cestus for the 19-20 crit range, and by taking Weapon Focus, it'll become a sacred weapon, boosting its damage die immediately from d4 to d6, then even higher later on. I'm tempted to do that at first level, but I really do expect to use the glaive much more often, so the bonus there seems more important.

Power Attack, Pushing Assault, and Pin Down are obvious for extra damage and battlefield control with a reach weapon. I put in Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization, and Pin Down at the earliest levels I can take them, since I only qualify to take them as bonus combat feats. If I don't go human, I won't have enough bonus feats to take all of these, which is fine. Weapon Spec and Greater are nice little numeric bonuses, but not strictly necessary.

Improved Init, Dodge, and Vital Strike kinda feel like "filler" feats to me, along with the Weapon Specializations I mentioned above. They're useful, but I feel like maybe there are better options that I'm not thinking of. I was thinking of maybe Furious Focus. When you only get one attack after moving, or you REALLY need to hit and do serious damage, Furious Focus and Vital Strike make a nice combo on top of Power Attack.

Actually, I wish I could take Improved Trip and Greater Trip, but that requires Combat Expertise as a prerequisite, and dumped int is a large part of the character concept. Not just for min/max purposes - it's a key part of the PC's personality and back story. I know I saw someone mention that there are ways to skip that prereq now, but are those just tied to classes?


Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Maybe this has been pointed out before, but I'm just getting around to looking at the Advanced Class Guide for the first time. I found something that seems weird, so I'm trying to sort it out.

So the Nature's Fang gets slayer talents at 4th level and every 2 levels after that. Let's assume that our friendly druid is doing the two weapon fighting ranger combat style. He's got the Two Weapon Fighting feat already, going high strength on his Shillelagh quarterstaff, which is a double weapon, and using the ranger combat style to ignore the minimum dex requirements for TWF feats.

Here's the weird part: at 6th level, he takes Ranger Combat Style as his slayer talent, and uses its ability to ignore feat prerequisites to get Improved Two Weapon Fighting. The ITWF feat says he gets a second offhand attack - but because his BAB is only +4 at 6th level, he doesn't have a second primary hand attack yet!

Does this just mean that he gets the second offhand attack once he has high enough BAB for iterative attacks? Or does he really get 3 attacks per round at 6th level, with two of them being offhand?

Silver Crusade

All the standard familiars are basically dumb animals that got magically enhanced. But once they get that enhancement that makes them a familiar, they start with 6 int and a strong empathic link to their master. One would assume that would alter their outlook on life from back when they only had 1 or 2 int.

Do they share their master's alignment, or are they still officially true neutral?

Silver Crusade

I know it sounds like an odd question, but I somehow got the idea in my head of doing a Pathfinder PC based on the main characters from the relatively obscure comic book series, Way of the Rat. The main character is an thief and staff master with a talking monkey as a mentor.

Any suggestions for how to replicate that?

I originally thought of this while looking at the Chosen One paladin, but I think this guy would be a little too wild for a paladin. Though maybe having him be an ex-thief who is being reformed through the "guidance" of the monkey familiar (who would pretty much just smack the kid upside the head for 4 levels until he can speak at level 5) would still make that work.

Any other archetypes or things for getting a familiar on a staff wielding melee type? The staff as primary weapon thing is more optional than the monkey - I could see doing a different weapon, or maybe doing a monk with a staff, but mostly using unarmed strikes, if there's a monk archetype to get a familiar that I haven't seen yet.

Silver Crusade

This order kept acting like it was rejecting my credit card, so I kept re-entering it. The end result is that it charged my credit card 5 times before the order finally went through.

Silver Crusade

This is for PFS Core campaign, so Core Rulebook ONLY.

Elves make good wizards. They've got the +2 int bonus and +2 to overcome spell resistance, among other things. They also make good archers, with their +2 dex bonus and default longbow proficiency.

Wizards kinda suck at low levels, until they have enough spells per day to cast constantly. I know I could just spend my first two prestige points on a wand of Magic Missile, but where's the fun in being normal? Besides, what do you do until you get those 2 prestige? I don't see many Core campaign tables around here, so I probably won't have the chance to skip level 1 with GM credits like I sometimes do in normal PFS.

So I was thinking of doing an elven wizard who pretends to be an archer at low levels. Use that dex bonus, longbow (which might end up being his bonded item), and spend his first feat or two on Point Blank Shot and maybe Precise Shot.

I may even wear armor to really confuse people. After all, how much actual casting does a level 1 or 2 wizard do? Will a 15% arcane failure chance from studded leather or something really matter that much to an archer? I'll dump the armor by 3rd level, when I start casting more, and stick to Mage Armor at that point, but it could be fun at low levels just to mess with people's preconceived notions.

It's 20 point buy, so I can just put 10 points in int and 5 in dex to start with 18 int and 16 dex. If I dump charisma, I may even be able to afford more. I want to save 5 points to pump up con for survivability. Using a longbow, I won't be able to dump strength like most wizards, but I won't bother increasing it, either.

By the time I hit level 5, I'll have enough spells per day not to bother with the longbow any more. So what are good (Core Rulebook ONLY) wizard spells that have ranged touch attacks, so I can take advantage of the high dex, Point Blank Shot, and Precise Shot? Scorching Ray is obvious, but I know there are some good non-damage ranged touch spells, too. I just don't remember them all, and I don't remember if they're all from the CRB, or other sources.

For that matter, spells that are based on ranged touch frequently don't have saving throws. So if I really go all out focusing on this, I might even go for higher dex than int. But that might take some research to convince me that there are enough good Core spells that I can use that way to make it worthwhile.

Silver Crusade

If a monster spreads disease through a bite attack, can a PC with a bite attack get the disease by biting back?

Silver Crusade ***

So I know this has occasionally been a sore topic in the past. What exactly is the current PFS rule on masterwork tools? I tried searching, and didn't find anything even remotely definitive, though I may have just missed something.

I really should get some of these for some of my PCs. The only one I can think of right away is my fighter with Profession: Chef wanting some cookbooks. I'm thinking for 50 gp, it's not just a single book. He's getting the whole Time-Life series. The limitation on using them is that it requires time to look things up, so it would be useful for day job rolls, but useless for impressing people with his culinary knowledge in conversation. That would require going from memory, with no bonus for the books.

Silver Crusade ***

So when you do a level 1 rebuild, you must follow the rules of character creation at the time of the rebuild, right?

But if you made an aasimar or tiefling before GenCon last year, then you can rebuild that character and keep them that race, right?

So am I allowed to have a character with options that were both PFS legal at some point, but never legal for new PCs at the same time?

No, this isn't a hypothetical question. I really do have an aasimar that got grandfathered in, because I played him before GenCon last year. He's level 2 now on GM credits, but he's still eligible for a level 1 rebuild, since he hasn't been played at level 2 or higher. And yes, I really am looking at options from a book published in 2015 to add to this character, so that would give him options that weren't legal at the same time that making an aasimar character was legal.

I'm debating if I even really want to make this change, but it's worth considering if it's legal.

Silver Crusade

The "My Downloads" link doesn't work on my Android tablet. When I go there from my PC, it's not a problem. It gives an error about not being able to establish a secure connection, rather than prompting for my password as it should.

Silver Crusade ***

So now that that factions have changed so much, I'm kinda surprised that First Steps, part 1 hasn't been retired like parts 2 and 3.

How do you deal with the faction talk in there, with the Paracountess talking about Cheliax instead of the Dark Archive, and Guaril's talk about the Sczarni? Just skip those paragraphs, or make up your own changes to adapt them?

On a related note, am I the only one who misses First Steps 2 and 3, and wishes they'd un-retire them with just some quick instructions on how to deal with the changed factions? It wouldn't take that much work, and it would give more replayable level 1 scenarios.

Silver Crusade

So I got a boon that lets me play a sylph in PFS, and I went with the Sky Druid archetype from the Advanced Race Guide, just because it would be something I couldn't do with any other race. I built her as a pure caster, with the Weather domain instead of an animal companion, and dumped strength, so no melee capability at all, but more spells than most druids.

I've only actually played this PC twice, but I also put some GM credits on her, so I'm up to advancing her to level 3. I'm hoping to play her again this weekend, and some more in the near future, so I'm looking for advice on feats and spells that would be good for this type of druid.

My first level feat was Cloud Gazer, the sylph specific feat that lets me see through non-magic clouds, and three times as far through magic clouds. The idea is that my domain gives me Obscuring Mist and Fog Cloud as my first two domain spells, so I can hide in my clouds and cast spells at the enemies without being targeted back. Of course, this only works in large, open battlefields - in closer combat, I'll just hide behind the front liners and skip the cloud spells, since they could mess up the rest of the party.

For other feats, I'm not sure what else would be useful for this type of druid. I'm thinking Spell Focus: Conjuration with Augment Summoning, to improve my Summon Nature's Ally spells. Beyond that, maybe Spell Penetration (and Greater) and Spell Focus (possibly with Greater) for the schools I use the most? Starting at level 5, my archetype will let me fly in combat most of the time without having to wild shape, so I won't wild shape as much as most druids, so I think I can skip the usual Natural Spell. I'd also consider Combat Casting, Toughness, or Lightning Reflexes. Reflex is my lowest save, and I figure the biggest threat to me when I'm hiding in my clouds would be an area of effect blast.

I'm also wondering what offensive spells I should be looking at. Due to the PC's pacifistic personality, I'm leaning towards non-lethal damage whenever possible, but she might do lethal damage with a spell as a last resort. This is another reason Weather domain works for her - the first level blast is non-lethal, but it has a little debuff to go with it, which is nice.

I'm also really liking that most of the sylph specific spells in the ARG are castable by druids. I've already used Windy Escape as a level 1 defensive spell, and now that I can get level 2 spells, Gusting Sphere is an offensive spell that goes with her theme (non-lethal, weather/wind based). Gusting Sphere isn't as good as Flaming Sphere for damage, but it's a little non-lethal damage with some battlefield control.

Like I said, I'll consider lethal damage if absolutely necessary, but I'm more inclined to look at battlefield control spells. In the past, I've prepped Entangle and Charm Animal for outdoor adventures. I was thinking Stone Call or Flaming Sphere now that I get level 2 spells. Soften Earth and Stone is another tempting one for outdoors, but it doesn't affect worked stone, so it won't work indoors. Similarly, Entangle and Charm Animal aren't good for dungeon crawls. What are some good spells to use instead?

And of course, I'm mostly looking at level 1 and 2 spells right now, since that's all I can cast so far, but I could use suggestions for higher level offensive spells, too.

Silver Crusade

So my group had a couple of encounters along the way, and will be arriving at Jorgenfist at the start of our Sunday session. They're approaching from the southeast (teleported back to Fort Rannick and marched northwest into the mountains from there), so they'll be across the river with a spyglass, fly, teleport, and group invisibility spells, and time to plan.

My biggest problem is the just the sheer size of the maps in this section of the adventure. I use wet erase flip mats and roll up mats, and I want to draw out things in advance to avoid wasting time during sessions, but there's just so much here, many sections of which won't ever get used.

How do I even approach this?

Silver Crusade

Given that these races are legal for any PFS character these days, you'd think Paizo would coordinate making a variety of minis in these races available.

It's been a while since I've looked, so maybe there are some new ones, but last time I looked, there was pretty much nothing for kitsune or nagaji - I never checked the other two. There are various companies with some furry stuff or lizardmen, but not much variety that really goes well with PFS PCs of these races.

Silver Crusade

So picking up where the earlier divination thread left off, we're about to start Fortress of the Stone Giants.

My group already knows about Mokmurian from interrogating Barl Breakbones, but Barl didn't know what M's interest in Sandpoint is. They've got one day after arriving in Sandpoint to prep for the attack, and I suspect they'll cast divination to ask about the reason for the attack. Any suggestions for an answer that meets Divination's requirement of a "useful piece of advice", without giving too much away?

Remember that I like to use rhyming couplets or quatrains, but I admit that my poetry sucks. My players get a kick out of my attempts, though. :P

Silver Crusade

Not sure if this is a Pathfinder rules question or a Golarion specific setting question. This is a question for a Pathfinder adventure set in Golarion, so I really want to conform to the rules of both (though as the GM, I do have the option of making up my own rules, but I'd rather not).

What happens to a devil when it dies? Does it cease to exist altogether, or does its "soul" (is that the correct word when it comes to devils?) go back to the plane that it came from to get a new body? And if it does return to the Hell from whence it came, how long until it can return to Golarion to wreak vengence on the PCs that killed it?

I'm running a Paizo adventure path, and my PCs are in a position to either kill or bargain with a very powerful devil. They're overthinking the decision (they really should just kill it, because they don't need its help nearly as much as they think), and between sessions, they're emailing back and forth about the questions they plan to ask using the spell Divination to determine how they should handle this. So I'm trying to be over-prepared once they decide which Divination questions to finally ask.

Silver Crusade

So one of my party died retaking Fort Rannick, and nobody in the party can cast Raise Dead. They've got the loot to pay for it, but I'm trying to figure out where the nearest city that would have that service available would be.

Kaer Maga's the closest big city, in straight line distance, but it'll be tough to get to. Magnimar is further than Kaer Maga or Korvosa, but it's a direct boat trip, so that's probably the fastest.

Is there a small town closer than those big cities where a scroll of Raise Dead might be available? I considered having the church in Turtleback Ferry have one available to buy, but that just seems too contrived.

Silver Crusade

So I'm GMing a group where the party oracle took Divination as a known spell.

They just finished retaking Fort Rannick. Kaven the traitor of the Black Arrows got away, but they killed Lucrecia and all the ogres. Their top priority seems to be tracking down Kaven, and they've got clues that will lead them to Commander Bayden's fae lover, but they seem to think they should have more leads about who Lucrecia serves. They got the name Mokmurian from her, but that's all they know, not where to find him or who he is or anything.

So I'm expecting some Divination castings, and I want to be prepared with intelligent (and rhyming!) answers.

Here's what I've got so far:

1. If they ask about Kaven (where he's going, who does he serve):


No master served, Lucrecia dead,

he flees south to save his head.

2. As I mentioned in another thread, they seem to think the Brothers of the Seven are more crucial than they are. They don't realize that they already killed that entire group in their sawmill in Magnimar. So I would expect at least one question about them. Given that they didn't get my vague hint about them being "gone" in an earlier divination answer, I figured I'd be more explicit this time:


Brothers of the Seven are all dead,

in their sawmill, lost their heads.
For Father Skinsaw, they did their murderous deeds,
'til Xanesha used them, for her master's needs.

3. They found Bayden's love letters, and no sign of him in the fort itself. Plus, they heard rumors in Turtleback Ferry that he was seen heading into the woods where the fairies live. So they might ask about him, and here's what I'm thinking as a response to that, though I'm thinking this answer might be a little too detailed:


Good Commander Bayden,
ice upon his head,
lives on inside Hook Mountain,
though he's already dead.

4. And if they just ask a general "What should we do next?" type of question:


Go south to Turtleback Ferry,

a village doomed to flood,
save them from a watery grave,
before the town sinks in the mud.

Any other thoughts? I'm trying to think of what other subjects they're likely to ask about at this point. And after the flood scene in Turtleback Ferry, they're likely to try another Divination for info on Skull's Crossing, so I'll have to come up with something for that.

Silver Crusade

So we just finished the retaking of Fort Rannick in Hook Mountain Massacre. My group entered from behind the waterfall and secret passages, and came upon Lucrecia as soon as they entered through the basement. Kaven ran away while the group was distracted fighting Lucrecia, and they discovered his treachery, though they don't know exactly how far it goes.

They've since finished killing all the ogres and clearing the fort. Since there are no obvious clues to pursue as to the bad guys' plans, they're all assuming that hunting down Kaven is their top priority.

The book (anniversary edition) says that he'll try to rendevous with Lucrecia, but that's no longer an option. Where would he go at this point? Should I make it possible to track his movement once he left the fort, or would the heavy rain in the area wash away footprints?

The oracle of the group also took Divination as a known spell, so I'm assuming they'll find useful questions to ask and track him down one way or another. I'm just trying to figure out how that should play out.

Silver Crusade

So my group is up to Hook Mountain Massacre (Anniversary Edition). Shalelu is tagging along, and I printed her page from the book to use as reference as a character sheet.

After clearing most of the ogrekin out of the farm last time, they're about to check the barn and rescue the Black Arrows next session (tomorrow).

So two questions. First (copied and pasted directly from the Community Created Stuff thread, where it didn't get any answers):


Anyone have the Anniversary Edition stats for the 3 rescued Black Arrows in an easy to print format?

I don't want to have to keep referencing that page in the AE, since they'll be participating in the adventure for a bit. But I also don't want to just print the whole pages with all the background information, and a big section header with a major spoiler in it, if I'm going to be leaving these sheets sitting on the table in front of me regularly where the players might see them.

I just know cutting and pasting stat blocks from Pathfinder adventures always takes time to reformat to make them work, so I was hoping someone else had already done it.

Second, the group will be leveling up soon, which now includes Shalelu. What do you all recommend for her advancement? The group already has an archery focused ranger, so she's kind of redundant, not to mention being nowhere near as good at archery, since the archer PC is just better built. It's probably about time for me to copy her to a real character sheet, so I can level her up easily when needed.

Silver Crusade

So my group just beat Xanesha last session. And surprisingly, they captured her alive.

Per the tactics in the Anniversary Edition of the AP, she jumped off the roof to Feather Fall down when she knew she was beat, but looking at the spell description, I realized it would take 3 rounds for her to hit the ground. With an archer and blasting focused sorceress on the roof, it was no problem for the PCs to knock her unconscious. The group's main healer was already flying faster than Xanesha was falling, so he got to the ground and stabilized her immediately, and they took her alive.

So the big question is... now what? The published adventure doesn't take this possibility into account. Once imprisoned in Magnimar, how much will she say? They already have proof that she was involved with Justice Ironbriar and the earlier murders, as well as plotting to kill the Lord Mayor, so there's really no way the authorities will cut her a deal that would let her avoid the death penalty. And she has no nearby accomplices that might break her out of prison.

So how much information do you think the PCs should be able to get out of her? I'm actually thinking she won't talk at all, unless offered a deal for her life, which just won't happen. I wonder if my PCs would come up with the idea of using the Detect Thoughts spell to interrogate her. I doubt it - they aren't that game savvy, and I won't bring it up. That could get them too much information too early.

I'm thinking maybe she'll make a threat just before her execution, and mention some other bad guy names to put the fear of Mokmurian and/or Karzoug into the PCs before she dies.

Is it too early to mention Karzoug? I think the group already heard his name once, in Thistletop. Malfeshnekor was talkative after charming one party member and trying to entice the others into his room so he could eat them, so I think I gave them the names Karzoug and Alasnist, but without detailed context. But hearing that someone from thousands of years ago is now Xanesha's boss would likely have the desired "oh crap" effect. But I might just give them Mokmurian's name now and save the big reveal on Karzoug for later.

Silver Crusade

So I get that Paizo wasn't prepared for the Great Golem Sale and all that, but the order's still "pending" after 18 days. This is getting kinda pathetic. Can someone check and make sure it wasn't messed up somewhere along the way?

Silver Crusade

So the start of Hook Mountain Massacre talks about the Lord-Mayor of Magnimar being contacted from Turtleback Ferry that they haven't heard from Fort Raddick, and he sends the PCs to investigate. This is supposed to be in winter, at least a month or two after the events of the earlier chapters.

But the PCs should find the note at the end of Skinsaw Murders hinting that bad stuff's going down in Turtleback Ferry and Fort Raddick. Why would they wait to go investigate?

Silver Crusade

So Justice Ironbrar has a wizard spellbook in his treasure. My party's only arcane caster is a sorceress, so nobody in the group can use it. I'm assuming someone else out there has done the math on how much they should be able to sell it for. Anyone want to save me the trouble and tell me what it's worth?

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Is it just me, or has all of been extra slow today? I'm not noticing this problem on other web sites, so it doesn't seem to be my internet connection.

Silver Crusade ***

57 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

This has been asked several times before, and nobody at Paizo has responded.

Quick summary: Fighter weapon groups have been defined in multiple books. Each time, they give a "complete" list of all weapons that fall into each group. Notes in Ultimate Combat and Ultimate Equipment have said something like:

Ultimate Equipment wrote:
For the purpose of the fighter class's weapon training ability, weapon groups are defined as follows (GMs may add other weapons to these groups, or add entirely new groups).

But there are plenty of PFS legal weapons that aren't mentioned at all in these lists, such as the new weapons introduced in the Advanced Race Guide. Common sense would dictate that the dwarven longhammer from the Advanced Race Guide would fall into the hammer group, and any home group GM who doesn't allow it is violating Wheaton's Law, but we all know that PFS runs on pure RAW, not common sense.

So here are the questions, as specific as I can make them:

1. In Pathfinder Society, are all legal, non-improvised weapons assumed to be part of at least one weapon group?

2. If the answer is that they're always in a group, can we assume that the obvious, common sense answers can be used to add them to groups? (ie Anything with "axe" in its name is in the axe group, anything with "hammer" in its name is in the hammer group, anything with reach is in the polearm group, any weapon that's worn instead of wielded in a hand is in the close group, etc)

And before anyone says this is a rules question, not a PFS question, that's why I included the quote from Ultimate Equipment, above. Paizo has already published their official answer to the general rules question. I don't expect them to ever clarify that further than the quote above. It doesn't help PFS. That's why this is a PFS specific question.

Silver Crusade ***

The new faction sequel to the earlier thread asking the same thing. How many characters do you have in each faction?

Mine, from most to least:

Silver Crusade: 4
Grand Lodge: 3
The Exchange: 2 (1 former Sczarni, 1 former Qadira, but Lantern Lodge before that)
Liberty's Edge: 2 (both from Andoran, but 1 was Lantern Lodge before that)
Shadow Lodge: 1 (level 14 and retired - he's trying to get the SL restarted with himself as the new leader)
Qadira: 1 (probably switching to Liberty's Edge, but maybe Silver Crusade - I haven't decided yet)
Sovereign Court: 1
Dark Archive: 1 (formerly Sczarni)
Scarab Sages: 1

If no faction changes are mentioned, then they were always in that faction or its analogous former faction.

What about the rest of you?

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

I know I've seen these questions come up before, and I don't think there were definite answers, but I thought I'd ask again in case I missed something.

1. When a paladin detects evil, do outside observers know he's doing something? Are there somatic components that would make it obvious he's casting, or is it something he can do quietly without being seen?

2. If a paladin attempts to smite something that isn't evil, then the smite is wasted, per the Core Rulebook. Does the paladin know that? Or would he believe he's still trying to smite that creature?

Silver Crusade

I just noticed that this page still has the season 5 logo, instead of the newer season 6 version.

Silver Crusade

So I'm pretty new to druids. I have a Sylph Sky Druid from the Advanced Race Guide, which loses the normal druid medium armor proficiency. I'm assuming darkwood heavy shield is the best shield I can use, but what's the best armor? This is for PFS, so RAW Paizo sources only.

Silver Crusade ***

No, this isn't about necromancers creating undead, though that would probably be relevant to this conversation, too. That is still legal in PFS, isn't it?

In PFS play, I've had situations come up twice now where one of my characters wanted to do something with the bodies of dead, humanoid foes, and either the GM or other players at the table disapproved.

The first time, the PCs protected some peasants on the road from a group of tengu bandits. After killing the bandits, my character suggested cutting the bandits' heads off and putting them on sticks on the side of the road, as a warning to other bandits.

Some of the other players at the table disapproved. As I recall, at least one guy thought I was treating tengu more like animals than humanoids because of their avian nature, so he thought that I saw them as less than human. That's not it at all.

Bear in mind that my character involved in this was lawful neutral, bordering on good at the time. He has since shifted to lawful good (I've got a long, involved back story for this guy, explaining his alignment shifts, among other things). In a "lawless" frontier, this just seemed like an appropriate way to enforce civilized behavior - scare the area's bandits into giving up their evil ways. But the rest of the group didn't want to do that, so I just went along with the majority.

More recently, I played my new tiefling fighter/chef last night. Early in the scenario, we killed some wild animals, and my character made a point of applying his profession (chef) skill towards turning the remains into dinner for the group.

Later, we killed a monstrous humanoid foe (don't want to give away any spoilers, but it's a humanoid race that's not in the Advanced Race Guide). Once again, my character wanted to cook up the body, but the GM insisted that cannibalism is an evil act, so I couldn't do that in PFS without giving up the PC permanently. Since it was just a minor bit of RP on the side, I didn't push the point.

It should be noted that earlier in the scenario, we fought a different group of "probably evil" monstrous humanoids, and my character was the one who wanted to try talking to them first, but the rest of the party charged in swords drawn to just fight and kill them. How is killing enemies without even giving them a chance not evil, but not wanting their remains to go to waste considered evil?

Different societies have different social standards with regards to the remains of their dead, both in the real world and Golarion. If we were talking about the dead bodies of good people, I could see our PCs wanting to treat them with respect, and bring them back to their families for proper burial, cremation, or whatever that society does with them. But if it's someone evil enough that we've already judged them worthy of death, does it really make sense to draw the "evil" line in the sand at doing stuff to their bodies after they're dead?

Since I was planning to make this an ongoing RP quirk for my fighter/chef (he'll cook ANYTHING), I thought I'd ask the question before I play him again. What do the rest of you think? More important, what does campaign management (who I'm sure won't have time to look at this until at least a couple of weeks after GenCon) think?

Silver Crusade

Blood of Fiends wrote:
Shame and horror fill your subconscious, and you never stop looking for ways to grant yourself the peace of the grave. Once per day, as an immediate action, you can make yourself the target of any attack originally directed against a creature occupying an adjacent square.

I'm playing an AC tank tiefling fighter in PFS, so this is an obvious fit.

Two questions:
1. When do I have to declare myself the target? Can I wait to see if the attack on my adjacent ally hits, or do I have to declare it as soon as the GM says who they're attacking? I could honestly see going either way on this one, but I'd probably lean towards the non-cheesy declaring it before the attack roll.
2. Since it just says the original target of the attack has to be adjacent, does this mean I can soak up hits from enemies that don't have enough reach to get to me? After all, it doesn't say I have to be adjacent to the enemy, or even within its reach. I see this as "I jump out in front, so part of my body is in the square with the guy being attacked", so I'd say that should work.

As mentioned, this is for PFS, so RAW answers only. No "ask your GM", since it'll be a different GM every time.

Silver Crusade

So my group just played the walking scarecrows chapter last session, or part of it anyway. They had just leveled up to 5th level right before the session.

The group went straight to the Hambley farmhouse and barn, and only met one "walking" scarecrow along the way (and I believe two normal scarecrows). They defeated the enemies at the farmhouse and barn, and now they want to continue to Foxglove Manor immediately, since they figured out what "The Misgivings" was from their visit to the sanitorium.

So I have two problems with this, as a GM:

1. That means they're leaving a dozen "walking" scarecrows in the field at the Hambley Farm. That could come back to bite them (or the townsfolk) later. Pun intended.

2. I prefer having them level up during logical breaks in the adventure, so I want them to be level 6 before they even enter Foxglove Manor, but they were only level 5 for one relatively short session. Killing a ghast and 7 ghouls shouldn't really be enough to earn a level at this point, but I'm having them level up based on the where the adventure says they should be, not xp, so I could force it, I guess.

So what I'm really looking for is an excuse to force them stick around the Hambley Farm and do a thorough job finding all those ghouls before moving on to Foxglove Manor. Or at least SOMETHING to justify having them level up to 6th level so quickly, since I would feel bad kinda railroading the adventure that way.

Maybe I'll just through in a "random" encounter between the Hambley Farm and Foxglove Manor to have them fight more ghouls to make up for some that they skipped in the corn field. And still have some of the remaining scarecrows come back to haunt Sandpoint and the other farms in the area later.


Silver Crusade ***

7 people marked this as a favorite.

Sorry, but this is something I've seen on these forums quite a bit lately, and it's starting to become a pet peeve. I'm posting to the PFS subforum specifically because this complaint mostly relates to people talking about the content of PFS scenarios. Please don't move the thread to someplace where nobody will see it.

What's with people not understanding how to use spoiler tags? I'm not talking about people who don't use the spoiler tags at all. That's a newbie mistake, and understandable, though everyone should learn eventually.

I'm talking about people who intentionally create a spoiler tag, but put non-spoiler information inside them, especially the information that should be outside the tags so that readers will know whether or not to click on the spoilers.

Lately, I've seen dozens examples of people spoilering the content of a PFS adventure in spoiler tags (good idea!), but putting the name of the scenario INSIDE the spoiler tag, which at least partially defeats the purpose. You're supposed to put the name of the scenario OUTSIDE the tags, so people can decide whether or not to open the spoiler tag based on whether or not they've played/GMed the adventure and want to see information about its content.

Because two different people have done this with the same scenario lately, I already know what the main monster is in an adventure I'm scheduled to play next week and knew nothing about. *sigh* I looked away and closed the spoiler tag as soon as I realized what they were talking about, but the names of iconic monsters do tend to stand out at a glance.

For that matter, I've occasionally seen the same with thread titles (not putting the title of the adventure or the word "spoilers" in the title, and starting out with spoilers about an adventure), but that tends to be fixed quickly by the moderators, so it's not as big an issue. Again, that's just a newbie mistake, and hopefully everyone learns to use spoiler tags eventually.

And sometimes, people will put information in spoiler tags for no reason whatsoever, which just leaves me scratching my head. And no, I'm not complaining about people who intentionally put a huge list or "wall of text" post inside spoiler tags, as long as they explain why they're doing it. Again, the key here is having a reason to use spoiler tags, and making it clear to your readers what that reason is before they open the spoilers to find out.

So to summarize: Go ahead and put spoiler information inside spoiler tags, but always make sure to have enough non-spoiler information OUTSIDE the tags (name of the adventure, etc) so that people can make an informed decision before clicking to open the spoilers.


Sorry - just had to get that off my chest.

And yes, I'm aware that every single response to this thread will be snarky responses making fun of me for ranting, all of them inside spoiler tags.

I have enough of a sense of humor to be ok with that.
I just hope some people will read this and learn something, and start using spoiler tags correctly in the future.

Silver Crusade

Why does the planet Golarion have two sun goddesses, when there's only one actual sun?

Yeah, I know Sarenrae is worshiped in the Inner Sea region, while Shizuru is worshiped in Tian Xia. But if there's only one sun, can't only one of them have absolute domain over it? But I guess the same could be asked of why there are two mostly different pantheons for different parts of the world.

Of more immediate concern, how do worshipers of the two sun goddesses view each other, and the other goddess?

I'm actually thinking of doing a Shizuru worshiper for PFS, and I was wondering how such a character traveling to the Inner Sea would react to all the Sarenrae worshipers all over the place. Even if you don't count Kyra, the busiest adventurer in Golarion, Sarenrae is one of the most popular deities for Society clerics, not to mention all those Dawnflower Dervishes and other worshipers.

Would there be a rivalry between the two sun goddesses? Or just mutual respect, as fellow good deities who have the sun and slashing weapons in common?

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Core Rulebook Combat Chapter wrote:
You can make attacks with natural weapons in combination with attacks made with a melee weapon and unarmed strikes, so long as a different limb is used for each attack. For example, you cannot make a claw attack and also use that hand to make attacks with a longsword. When you make additional attacks in this way, all of your natural attacks are treated as secondary natural attacks, using your base attack bonus minus 5 and adding only 1/2 of your Strength modifier on damage rolls. Feats such as Two-Weapon Fighting and Multiattack can reduce these penalties.

Can somebody explain exactly what that last (bolded) sentence means? I'm not seeing it in the description of this feat:

Core Rulebook Feat Chapter wrote:

Two-Weapon Fighting (Combat)

You can fight with a weapon wielded in each of your hands. You can make one extra attack each round with the secondary weapon.

Prerequisite: Dex 15.

Benefit: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand lessens by 2 and the one for your off hand lessens by 6. See Two-Weapon Fighting in Combat.

Normal: If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. When fighting in this way you suffer a –6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a –10 penalty to the attack with your off hand. If your off-hand weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 each. An unarmed strike is always considered light.

This is for a PFS tiefling fighter with a greatsword and bite attack. I already created him with 14 dex, but I could easily up that to 15 if it turns out this feat can really help the bite attack.

Grand Lodge ***

Because there aren't enough tieflings in the Society. I really was planning this guy about a week before the big announcement.

Before you is the ugliest tiefling you've ever seen. He's large, muscular, covered in scars, with huge tusks, horns, and a tail that won't stop moving. He eyes the other Pathfinders in the room, occasionally growling if someone looks back at him for too long.

When it is his turn to introduce himself, he says: (with a vaguely Russian accent)

"I am called Molos. Molos Pinktusk. Family name is Pinktusk, cause I grow up in Urgir. Is largest city of Hold of Belkzen. Is orc country, very brutal. Orcs call family Pinktusk, cause we have pink skin like human, but big tusks like orc."

"I learn to fight there. Grow up to be strong warrior. Use greatsword, bite enemies with big tusks, hurl stones very fast from sling with big, strong muscles."

"But most important skill, I not learn 'til leave Belkzen. Orcs have no civilization. Eat much raw meat. Know nothing of cooking."

At this point, his tone softens as he continues:

"When leave Belkzen, I learn of fine cuisine. Well cooked meals with variety of ingredients, flavorful sauces and spices, perfectly paired with fine wines. Molos learn of many culinary pleasures since leave home country. Want to travel all Golarion and savor every type food. That main reason I join Pathfinders, agree to be fighter in Society. To travel the world!"

He pauses for just a moment, a wistful gleam in his eye as he thinks, then his face hardens as he continues:

"Pathfinder Society broken into factions. I not know which faction best. Just want travel, see world, taste many fine foods, not care about ancient knowledge, freeing slaves, being do-gooder. Taldor seem very civilized, probably have excelent cuisine. Or could help Qadira arrange trade for recipes and spices, spread great flavors throughout Golarion. Or maybe just join Grand Lodge, stay out of faction politics. Not sure yet."

"What rest of you think? Which faction sound best for Molos?"

Silver Crusade

Stupid question, but which starting language makes more sense if your tiefling is oni-spawned: Infernal or Abyssal? I'm thinking Infernal, just because oni and devils are both lawful evil outsiders, but I wanted to check and be sure. This is for PFS, so I want to make sure my PC fits in with Golarion lore.

Silver Crusade ***

So Seeker of Secrets says that Pathfinders have to go through 3 years of training, but there are occasional, rare field commissions. In another thread, we got off topic talking about this, so I'm starting a new thread.

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Fromper wrote:
I think it's assumed that probably half or more of PCs are field commissions. I can't see many of the weirdo PC ideas at my tables (including many of my own) sitting still for 3 years of schooling.
While it doesn't come up that often, I don't know if I've even seen a "standardly trained" pathfinder as a pc. Apparently they save those for the missions where everyone isn't going to die.

I wouldn't go that far. I have at least four PCs that I know for a fact went through full Pathfinder training. Three of them are siblings whose father was a Pathfinder. One of them was a Chelaxian slave who was freed by an Andoren Pathfinder and brought to Absalom at 9 years old. He spent the next few years working as a valet for any Pathfinder who would teach him anything in return, until he was old enough to get in for formal training.

I'll have to think about my other PCs, as I'm sure I've got a mix of formal training and field commissions, depending on the characters.

Silver Crusade

So I checked Inner Sea Gods, and nothing jumped out at me. Who's the patron deity of foodies? Not gluttony, just appreciation of fine dining, much the way Cayden Cailean is the god of alcohol, but not drunkenness.

Silver Crusade ***

Question for Paizo:

One thing I half expected to see in yesterday's blog post about upcoming changes as of GenCon was an announcement about First Steps, part 1. Given all the changes to the factions, can we assume that this will be retired next month?

It would be nice to know that, so we can plan for "one last run" before it goes away. At this point, I'm just assuming it will be retired, but confirmation would be nice. No, not The Confirmation, though it's nice that we have the replacement.

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