|Paizo Pathfinder® Paizo Games|
|About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ|
Around here, it's not even a question. 80% of the players at my tables are doing something with their PC that I don't know anything about, whether it's spells, the newer classes that I haven't had a chance to read up on in detail, obscure feats, traits, etc from books that I don't know, etc.
After not doing much PFS in about a year and a half (most of seasons 5 and 6), I came back and GMed a session at the start of season 7, and 5 of the 6 PCs at the table were classes where I'd never read the class description. I knew how the paladin's character worked, and that was it. Everyone else was playing ACG or Occult classes that I didn't know, along with one gunslinger, which I know a little bit about from having been at tables with a few, but I've never wanted to play one, so I never read the class details for myself.
That's just the nature of organized play. People show up with stuff from whatever books they want, and you've got to deal. When they do something I don't know, I just ask "how does that work?" and go with it. I rarely need enough detail to spend time looking things up during the game, but I will if necessary. If something seems overpowered, I'll look it up after the game to make sure the player was explaining/using it properly.
The clerics in the godsmoot can't leave until the voting's over. So none of them can come along while the Order goes chasing after Durkula. On the other hand, I'm sure many of them would be happy to help if they come back wounded (or dead). And maybe even provide potions for the Order to bring with them, so they don't have to rely on their bard as the only healing.
So I haven't studied the builds in this thread that deeply yet. Can someone explain why psychic is so much better for this than other classes? I saw Focused Force, which helps a little with damage, but doesn't seem like it's that big a difference by itself. Do psychics just get a ton of good force spells on their list? I haven't looked through all the new occult stuff yet, so there are probably plenty of new spells I don't know about.
And why Pathfinder Savant? I briefly glanced at that prestige class, but I didn't have a chance to figure out all the details and why it works so well with this build.
Everyone keeps saying they need the screen to hide dice rolls that need to be secret, but that's not an issue for me, even without a screen. I just cup my hand over the table and roll under that. Players see that I'm rolling, but can't see the result. This works fine for secret trap spotter, bluff, etc checks. In fact, I roll this way every time the player say they're sensing motive, regardless of whether or not the NPC they're talking to is bluffing.
As for keeping the adventure hidden, I always have one or two pieces of paper on top of the printed adventure. I need a sheet to take notes on, track initiative, etc, anyway, so that's always on top. The second cover sheet is often something related to the adventure, just turned over, so all they see is the blank back side.
Hiding upcoming minis is a little harder, but if you just keep them in a case, or mix the ones you're planning to use with lots of others, it'll keep the players guessing. Besides, in most scenarios, it's not a big deal if they see stuff in advance - they generally have some clue of what type of stuff is coming, one way or another. For a big dragon or something that you want to surprise them with, it's easy to keep it hidden in a bag until it's time to pull it out.
The other issue with GM screens, which has nothing to do with hiding rolls, is the psychological factor. Putting that literal barrier between the GM and the players just seems unfriendly to some players. It's kind of like the body language of folding your arms in front of you. I prefer to keep things open, casual, and friendly by not using a screen.
And again, I don't object to screens, I'm just pointing out why some players don't like them.
GM screens don't make me suspicious, but I don't like them.
As both a player and GM, I make a point of rolling my dice out in the open, unless I'm the GM, and it's something that needs to be a secret. With a GM screen, players can't see normal rolls, and that can make them suspicious, even when there's no reason to be.
I think a better contest would be non-hypothetical characters. The bonuses are nowhere near as high as above, but here's one I actually played at level 1:
Julian Lightfoot, halfling infiltrator inquisitor of Norgorber
+3 intelligence (Student of Philosophy trait to use intelligence instead of charisma for most bluff and diplomacy checks)
For a total of +14 bluff to pretend to be a priest of Pharasma in my first adventure. Obviously, I could have taken Skill Focus to get that higher very easily, and/or boosted my int or wis higher. But like I said, this is an actual build. Bluff is VERY important to the build (he really worships an evil god whose worship is banned in most Inner Sea nations), but I did have to invest in other things, too.
Actually, I was just looking at the Quicken Blessing feat. It says that it works on blessings that are normally a standard action. So I don't think you can use it with a blessing that's normally a move action.
I like some of the blessings, though others are underwhelming.
Liberation is awesome. I'm tempted to make a warpriest of Milani just to get that one.
The 1st level Trickery power is the same as the Trickery domain for clerics/inquisitors. The fact that it's a move action to activate means you can use it for defense while attacking in the same round. I do this all the time with my cleric of Besmara with the Trickery domain. My only complaint about the warpriest version is the low uses per day of blessings at lower levels. If I make that whip wielder of Calistria mentioned above, I'll definitely consider taking this.
Stuff like Destruction, Good, War, or other 1 minute buffs are good if you have a spare round to buff at the start of a fight, or before kicking in a door, but they're not spectacular.
The most disappointing to me is the 1st level Luck blessing power. The Luck domain for clerics/inquisitors is fantastic for buffing teammaters, so you'd hope that the blessing version would be similar for buffing yourself. But it's nowhere near as good. You only get the bonus on one roll, rather than all rolls for a round like with the domain.
The Disappeared and its related scenarios go into why Zarta Dralneen is no longer the Chelish ambassador to Absalom. There were a couple of scenarios before that which introduced her enemy who set up the events of The Disappeared, and then there were scenarios that followed it up, showing how she got out of that situation and ended up starting the Darchive, ending with The Paths We Choose.
Yeah, I've been thinking of doing a whip wielding Calistrian warpriest. Focus on combat maneuvers, and use all the bonus feats and swift action buffs to actually be good at it (unlike most divine whip wielders).
My only warpriest so far is also reach and combat maneuver focused: He's a pacifist warpriest of Shelyn, who uses her favored weapon (glaive) to trip people and/or sunder their weapons, then ask them to surrender. He's only level 2 so far, so mostly just theoretical, though I had fun playing him in Wounded Wisp. In the biggest fight, I tripped two people and sundered an archer's bow, which helped the party win while still letting my allies hog the "glory" of doing all the HP damage.
Besides, that NPC was proud of her unique physiology, and showed it off intentionally.
It occurs to me that a good new set for the pre-painted plastic minis would be an "Advanced Race Guide" set, featuring at least 2 of every playable race from that book. With everyone playing oddball races (especially all the kitsune, tengu, nagaji, and wayang in the Society), I'm sure it would sell well.
I just realized V messed up. You'd think the smartest member of the team would remember that there IS a healer on board the ship. Elan might not be a high level cleric, but he can cast Mass Cure Light Wounds a few times on all the wounded animals, which would make sense to do before heading in to find the tiger's mistress.
In fact, with Durkula's betrayal revealed, Elan just became the sole party healer.
Actually +30 swim might not be enough for that tsunami spell. We're talking minimum 17th level to cast it, safe assumption of at least a 24 casting stat by that level (though 28+ isn't unreasonable to expect), and a +8 size bonus, for a minimum of +32 CMB. That's before the d20 roll, so the average roll will be at least 43, possibly higher. I'd need +33 skill or more to beat that while taking 10.
So that's worth knowing about. But that's also such a high level thing that my PC isn't likely to ever face that specific spell. This is for PFS, which rarely goes beyond level 11.
Anyone know of any other examples of situational stuff that can increase the difficulty of swimming?
So according to the Core Rulebook, swimming in stormy water requires a DC 20 swim check, and you can't take 10. That's the toughest swim DC listed there.
However, when talking about creatures with swim speeds, it says "It gains a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform a special action or avoid a hazard."
What special actions or hazards require swim checks? How high would those DCs be?
I'm asking because I made a half-elf PC with the Water Child alternate racial trait from the Advanced Race Guide, which gives a +4 racial bonus to swim and lets me take 10 in all circumstances. So once I hit +10 bonus, I'll be able to take 10 to hit a DC 20 without rolling. So is there any reason to take more skill ranks in swim after I'm at +10? It just seems like I'll able to insta-succeed on any swim check, if 20 is the highest DC.
Jared Thaler wrote:
If you read John Compton's posts early in this thread, that does seem to be his response to the Deific Obedience feat. Of course, he says that the PC has to choose the less evil route towards doing the obedience, which would avoid any possible consequences.
Jared Thaler wrote:
Not to mention that rangers don't require a deity.
You're missing Atarlost's point.
Oracles almost never take condition removal spells as their known spells. If they did, they'd never have anything else to cast. On the other hand, a cleric can prepare whatever spells they want for the day. If someone comes down with a disease, curse, blindness, etc, the cleric just prays for that spell the next morning and casts it. The oracle would have to fill up their known spells with condition removals if they wanted to have the right one for any situation.
Taking a concept character into Bonekeep is like picking Betty White as your quarterback for the Superbowl. It's a cute idea that is going to get everyone on your team creamed.
Depends on what you mean by "concept character", and how effective the rest of the team is.
When I played Bonekeep level 1, we finished with max rewards, and nobody died, which is relatively rare. I have since decided to give up on the PC that I played in that one. It was an odd multi-class roguish concept that I just never got to work as effectively as I wanted. But the one thing I did well with that PC happened to be exactly what was needed for our group in Bonekeep: trap finding and disabling. He didn't help as much as I wanted in combat, but I was with enough overpowered PCs that it didn't matter.
In the case of the Chosen One archetype for paladins, the familiar is required to worship a deity, and gets a domain ability based on what that deity offers. But that's a pretty special case.
In general, most animal companions don't have enough intelligence for that. But if we're only talking about the ones with int >= 3, then I don't see why not.
Not from a game, but related.
The phrase "God bless America" came up in an internet discussion. Someone jokingly asked "What exactly happens when God blesses America?" My response: "America gets a +1 morale bonus to attack rolls and saving throws vs fear."
I'm not sure if anyone got the joke (it was in a non-gaming discussion group).
As much as some of the old faction missions were silly, pointless, or downright nonsensical, I still miss them.
They helped get combat focused players to pay attention to room descriptions and NPCs outside of combat. They provided regular direct contact from your faction leader, so you'd actually know something about that NPC's personality. Some of the faction missions were actually plot relevant.
And some of them were just friggin hilarious, even when they made no sense. Or maybe I should say, especially if they made no sense! ie "I do this for Taldor!"
I don't know why, but Taldor always seemed to have the goofiest faction missions. Other than that famous quote, I also remember the one from part 3 (I think) of Eyes of the Ten, which was just as weird and fun. Or the first part of The Devil We Know, where you have to push a guy off a ship into the bay, to embarrass him - I had to do that with my 7 strength gnome sorcerer from Taldor.
GM Evil, I hope everything's ok. If there's too much going on at home, and you need to cancel the game, I'm sure we'll all understand.
Kaa, my nagaji hisses when he speaks, too, so I'm kinda used to it.
I don't think I've ever been a table with two tengus before. It made me consider the plural of "tengu", and it just seems like the singular and plural of the word should be the same, with no "s" on the end. But I just checked the Advanced Race Guide, and it clearly uses "tengus" as the plural of "tengu". That just sounds wrong.
Speaking of race names that end in vowels, I just noticed that the ARG says the plural of "nagaji" is "nagaji", but the plural of "grippli" is "gripplis". I wonder who made these decisions.
Nosig, that surprises me that NOBODY in your area joins in on the skill stuff. I know there's frequently one or two players at any table who are just there to murderhobo the bad guys, but around here, "aid another" rolls on skill checks are more common than attack rolls. You get into a social situation, and everyone's trying to assist, even if it's just for the comedy of seeing how badly the 5 charisma dwarf can fail.
If the event listings here had features worth using, it would get use. Local groups around here use Warhorn or other web sites to coordinate, then just post the results here on Paizo.com.
But as mentioned above, your best bet is to tell us here on the forums where you're located. There will be somebody in your general area who should be able to tell you what's going on in your area, even if it's just to say that they know there are no groups near you.
DM Livgin really nailed it. If you're not participating, then you're making things harder for everyone else. In some cases, that's not a problem, but as others have mentioned, the presence of one more PC at the table can up the difficulty when it comes to average party level, 4 player adjustments, etc. Everyone should have something they can do in combat, even if it's not damage.
I have a cowardly sorcerer who is afraid of violence, and doesn't have the ability to do HP damage to enemies. He doesn't own a physical weapon, not even a dagger. He doesn't have any direct damage spells. Nobody's ever complained about having him at the table. He tosses out Haste in the first round of every fight (mostly so he can run away faster). While he cowers behind the meat shields, or sometimes runs around a corner to get away from the fight altogether, he'll look in on the fight and toss a Glitterdust or other spell in every round to help his companions.
I also have a pacifist warpriest of Shelyn who would rather redeem intelligent enemies than kill them. His goddess's favored weapon has reach, so he uses his glaive to trip, disarm, and sunder without provoking attacks of opportunity, then asks the weaponless enemies on the ground if they'll surrender. If not, he'll bash them with the flat side of his glaive (non-lethal) until they're unconscious. He'll get Improved Trip at level 3 (he's only level 2 now), and upgrade his glaive to merciful when he can afford it (probably around level 7 or 8).
There are plenty of ways to do unusual concepts other than the typical murderhobo, while still contributing in every aspect of the game. Both of my PCs I described above have social skills for non-combat situations.