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I hate to break it to you, but We Be Goblins doesn't count. Per John Compton in this post:
None of our pregenerated characters are aasimars or tieflings, so that means that pregen credit is not sufficient for grandfathering in a character.
And obviously, you're always playing a pregen when you play We Be Goblins.
I have a friend who has this feat on her paladin, and has not only used it to bring back PCs for free, but I remember her once using it on a non-plot critical NPC. She waited until the end of the adventure, when the immediate threat was dealt with, then went back to save the poor soul we'd failed to protect earlier. Great role playing moment.
Sorry, but this is something I've seen on these forums quite a bit lately, and it's starting to become a pet peeve. I'm posting to the PFS subforum specifically because this complaint mostly relates to people talking about the content of PFS scenarios. Please don't move the thread to someplace where nobody will see it.
What's with people not understanding how to use spoiler tags? I'm not talking about people who don't use the spoiler tags at all. That's a newbie mistake, and understandable, though everyone should learn eventually.
I'm talking about people who intentionally create a spoiler tag, but put non-spoiler information inside them, especially the information that should be outside the tags so that readers will know whether or not to click on the spoilers.
Lately, I've seen dozens examples of people spoilering the content of a PFS adventure in spoiler tags (good idea!), but putting the name of the scenario INSIDE the spoiler tag, which at least partially defeats the purpose. You're supposed to put the name of the scenario OUTSIDE the tags, so people can decide whether or not to open the spoiler tag based on whether or not they've played/GMed the adventure and want to see information about its content.
Because two different people have done this with the same scenario lately, I already know what the main monster is in an adventure I'm scheduled to play next week and knew nothing about. *sigh* I looked away and closed the spoiler tag as soon as I realized what they were talking about, but the names of iconic monsters do tend to stand out at a glance.
For that matter, I've occasionally seen the same with thread titles (not putting the title of the adventure or the word "spoilers" in the title, and starting out with spoilers about an adventure), but that tends to be fixed quickly by the moderators, so it's not as big an issue. Again, that's just a newbie mistake, and hopefully everyone learns to use spoiler tags eventually.
And sometimes, people will put information in spoiler tags for no reason whatsoever, which just leaves me scratching my head. And no, I'm not complaining about people who intentionally put a huge list or "wall of text" post inside spoiler tags, as long as they explain why they're doing it. Again, the key here is having a reason to use spoiler tags, and making it clear to your readers what that reason is before they open the spoilers to find out.
So to summarize: Go ahead and put spoiler information inside spoiler tags, but always make sure to have enough non-spoiler information OUTSIDE the tags (name of the adventure, etc) so that people can make an informed decision before clicking to open the spoilers.
Sorry - just had to get that off my chest.
And yes, I'm aware that every single response to this thread will be snarky responses making fun of me for ranting, all of them inside spoiler tags.
Spoiler:I just hope some people will read this and learn something, and start using spoiler tags correctly in the future.
I have enough of a sense of humor to be ok with that.
Why does the planet Golarion have two sun goddesses, when there's only one actual sun?
Yeah, I know Sarenrae is worshiped in the Inner Sea region, while Shizuru is worshiped in Tian Xia. But if there's only one sun, can't only one of them have absolute domain over it? But I guess the same could be asked of why there are two mostly different pantheons for different parts of the world.
Of more immediate concern, how do worshipers of the two sun goddesses view each other, and the other goddess?
I'm actually thinking of doing a Shizuru worshiper for PFS, and I was wondering how such a character traveling to the Inner Sea would react to all the Sarenrae worshipers all over the place. Even if you don't count Kyra, the busiest adventurer in Golarion, Sarenrae is one of the most popular deities for Society clerics, not to mention all those Dawnflower Dervishes and other worshipers.
Would there be a rivalry between the two sun goddesses? Or just mutual respect, as fellow good deities who have the sun and slashing weapons in common?
It sounded to me like his wife's character isn't based on GM credits. Maybe she played 3 times with a level 1 PC of another race (or pregens) and then rebuilt into aasimar. So now she still has to play it as an aasimar to make it legal.
How long do you think it'll take for this to turn into a paladin hate thread? If we can't go at least 25 posts (real ones, not posts just to get the post count up because I said that) without an anti-paladin rant, then I'll make a new aasimar paladin, just to cheese those people off. :P
Wow. No paladin hate here. Color me surprised. Looks like gunslingers and summoners are the biggest losers.
Sean Ennis wrote:
When my group played a particular scenario where we knew we'd be meeting rat folk, one member of the group brought a few big wheels of cheese to use as bribes. The GM gave us a circumstance bonus to diplomacy for it.
Sean Ennis wrote:
I thought he just meant that they're not suitable for vegans, people with a dairy allergy, or Jews eating meat for dinner.
Would that require a fort save vs the self coup de grace?
In the past, faction traits are always kept on characters that have them, even if you change factions or the faction ceases to exist. I still have characters with Shadow Lodge and Lantern Lodge traits.
In this case, the Andoran faction is changing its name and disassociating from the government of the nation of Andoran, but I wouldn't expect the traits to change at all, though I could be wrong. Now prestige awards are another matter.
Kyle Baird wrote:
The real question would be how my gnome prankster bard would do 1d8 damage with 7 str, a scroll in one hand, and a whoopee cushion in the other.
Speaking of which, should it only do 1d6 instead of 1d8 for small characters? :P
The Morphling wrote:
So I'm trying to figure out the flashback to Durkon's childhood when Durkula is feeding on Elan. Durkon's mother is there (she stands out because of the missing arm), so the kid is obviously Durkon.
Who is it that's seeing that flashback? Is there some sort of psychic information transfer going on, where Elan is seeing Durkon's memory during the feeding? Could this be how Durkon calls out for help? Will one of the two dwarven songs mentioned in that flashback be the hint Elan needs to figure out what's going on? After all, between his performing talent and bardic knowledge, he might just recognize them, or possibly just want to go look them up to learn new songs.
As the player in question, I had no 'in game' reason to think of my character a vunerable (i.e. what's a level?)
The characters would know the low level guy is the least experienced Pathfinder, so maybe shielding him/her a little is a good idea. Even in character, that works as an excuse to put the lowest level guy in the least vulnerable position, which as stated above, is the middle of the pack with meat shields all around.
Brigg brings up a good point. If you're using something that's up to GM discretion, a corner case in the rules, or even just something unusual that many GMs won't know, it's a good idea to have the book open to the right page before even starting.
I actually did something like this last night. My battle oracle has the Surprising Charge revelation, which lets me move as an immediate action once per day. When an enemy spellcaster started casting, I used it to get within reach of him. But assuming that the GM might not know the revelation if he's not that familiar with battle oracles, I handed him the book, pointed, and said, "I do this." It's only 3 lines of text, so I figured it was quicker than explaining it out loud, then possibly being asked to clarify.
I'm not convinced Gallant Inspiration will work as a wand, even with a readied action.
It's supposed to be an immediate action spell that takes places after someone misses an attack, so it's really in the middle of their attack. Casting it as a standard action from a wand seems like it would take too long to work in the middle of someone else's action. That's why the spell is normally an immediate action, which represents a much smaller expenditure of time than a standard action.
3. Can't hit AC 30? = Ready action with a Wand of Gallant Inspiration to make sure the heavy hitters CAN break AC 30!
I don't think this one works, unfortunately. Using a wand is always at least a standard action, even if the spell is usually a swift/immediate action. That means you can't interrupt someone's attack to hit them with Gallant Inspiration from a wand.
As for Sammy's question, I'm thinking the best approach is to talk to someone after the session is over, and start with, "I noticed your character doesn't do that much direct damage for this level of combat. Have you considered other approaches to helping the party in battle? You might want to consider ... "
You don't want to interrupt the game in the middle of a session, and you definitely need to be as polite as possible. But in the end, you have to tell them to their face that their build sucks, if you want them to realize it and do something about it.
As I said above, the first step in solving any problem is realizing that there is a problem. That applies to everything in life.
If the problem is just a weak character build, sometimes the only answer is that the PC just isn't good enough for higher level play. I have seen builds that are just completely ineffective once you get past level 8 or 9. Sometimes, you just have to realize it's a lost cause and move on to the next PC, but not everyone's optimization-savvy enough to do that.
Sometimes, it may be that a build works only with certain types of parties. I have a couple of support builds that I won't bring to the table if other people are playing support builds.
But depending on the build, sometimes just picking up the right feat or a couple of magic items could make a big difference. That's when it's possible to give advice, but again, we'd have to know details to know what advice to recommend.
But the biggest issue is awareness. The first step in solving any problem is always realizing that there is a problem, followed by identifying exactly what the problem is.
Does that really belong in this thread?
I'm not trying to turn this into gossip about specific players or something. I'm just thinking of last night's game as an obvious example, but issues from other sessions could be used as examples, too.
I just think that knowing what kinds of problems he's talking about could help with the advice giving. Is it poorly built PCs that just don't do enough damage or have useful combat abilities beyond the low levels, or is it more about just bad tactical play? And if so, just what kind of bad decisions are people making in the heat of battle?
Like I said, Power Attack really isn't useful at low level. The penalty to hit is a bigger problem when your chance to hit is that low to begin with, compared to higher levels when it doesn't matter as much.
And you should pick up a wand of CLW after your first adventure. It only costs 2 prestige, which you'll usually get the first time out, though sometimes, it may take until the second scenario. Even without one, someone else in the party will hopefully have some healing, and if you're on the front line, you'll end up needing it at some point.
I didn't realize there was a BAB +3 prerequisite until I just looked at it. The real question is what type of PC could be effective walking around like that all the time? Non-druids can't even take Natural Spell to cast spells in that form, and you'd be too small to be effective in melee. It's a cute idea, but doesn't seem practical.
If you qualified for Fey Foundling at level 1 (I don't remember if there are any prerequisites), then that should be fine, using first level rebuild rules. You can change anything you want on your character before playing for the first time at level 2. So even after your 3rd session at normal advancement (or 6th at slow track, but I wouldn't slow track level 1), just before you play at 2nd level.
But honestly, I don't see why you'd bother doing that. Just take Fey Foundling up front. Power Attack is usually unnecessary at low levels, since low level characters miss a lot, and melee types generally do enough damage not to need the damage boost against low level enemies. I usually wait until at least level 3 to take Power Attack on my melee characters, because I won't use it at lower levels, anyway. The only exception is if you need it as a prerequisite for something else.
For some reason, I thought you had 6 at your table. I know who some of your players were, but I don't remember everyone you had with you.
Were you running the higher tier with a mixed level group? Based on the signups, I had the feeling you'd end up running tier 10-11 with at least one level 7 PC, which could be bad, especially in that adventure. I haven't played it, but I know it's reputation. There's a reason I signed up to play something different last night. :P
Can you go into detail about the types of issues that came up?
Played this last night. Our store actually had two tables running this for 7 players (along with 4 tables of other scenarios), so both were small groups. There were 4 people playing subtier 8-9, and I was at the table with 3 players at subtier 5-6.
Our group was a level 5 tengu zen archer, level 5 channel-focused aasimar cleric of Sarenrae, my level 5 nagaji battle oracle, and level 7 Valeros joined us, so I wouldn't have to be alone on the front line.
The social interaction at the tavern didn't go well initially, since we were afraid to say too much. So our diplomacy oriented social characters were trying to bluff with just our charisma bonuses and no trained skill, and failed miserably. We did some basic diplomacy, too, but ended up rolling awful, so that didn't help either. So the bounty hunter didn't particularly like us, but I don't think we gave her a reason to be especially "on guard" against us stealing her prisoner.
Luckily, my lawful good oracle isn't lawful stupid, so he doesn't feel compelled to obey the laws of a nation whose laws are clearly unjust and evil. In a case like this, breaking the law for a good cause is acceptable. So I decided to just pull the bartender aside to talk to him in private. After he mentioned that the bounty hunter checked into a room with a man who hadn't come out since, I bribed him to find out which room and get a spare key for it (since we realized nobody in our group could pick the lock, and breaking down the door would be loud). So we just calmly walked to her room, unlocked the door, and climbed out the window with our rescued captive, while the bounty hunter continued drinking at the bar, totally unaware of our actions.
Hitting the dungeon itself was interesting. I kept saying all those chains reminded me of the original Alien movie. The mechanics with the chains were somewhat difficult, but I didn't get the impression that it was poorly written or anything, as described in this thread. Our group faceplanted in the pit trap, other than the archer with his high reflex, and we searched around and found the treasure.
When we started climbing, the cleric with dumped strength and armor decided to stay behind, as we figured once the strong guys reached the top, he could just wrap himself in the chain, and we'd pull him up. Of course, we got attacked before the top, and he ended up not being able to help with that. With the 4 player adjustment, there's just one guy ambushing us, and it wasn't difficult at all.
The final fight wasn't too tough for us. We intentionally climbed down into the side room, not the main room, so we were able to hear the chanting and buff like crazy before heading in. Valeros and I had Protection From Evil and Enlarge Person, the cleric tossed out Prayer and Bless, so we were ready to kick some butt. My oracle's a pretty good tank (25 AC at level 5), and the archer and Valeros both did some good damage, while the cleric kept us all standing. We took some damage, and had trouble with visibility and the chains trying to stop us, but it really wasn't that tough. My oracle only had a chance to hit one guy with his sword (I failed the miss chance against the leader - was that a Blur spell?), but my knowledge (planes) skill to identify the mooks and tell our archer to use silver arrows was a key in ending the fight faster. Luckily, the cleric was able to translate, since my oracle has the tongues curse. This was just a really good example of preparation and teamwork making a fight much easier than it could have been otherwise.
All in all, I liked this adventure. The dark tone came through easily and set the mood for the whole thing. Having a combat that started when we were 175 feet up scared the heck out of us (we were assuming 17d6 falling damage if things went badly, though I kinda suspected we'd get extra chances to grab at the chains to stop, or at least soften, the fall), even though it wasn't actually a tough fight at our tier with the 4 player adjustment. I heard that one was much tougher at the higher tier.
And the boons on this chronicle are actually pretty nice. My character's Andoran, so I got the extra boon just for rescuing as many people as possible, which is just something that fit with his personality.
The grandfather clause is meant to be self policing. You don't need a hard number for self policing as the answer is always: "If you think it is abusive then it is." Asking for a hard number is only useful if you want other people to do the policing, which goes against the spirit of the ruling. Some people may think that some people can't be trusted to self-police. John & Mike obviously don't think this way.
Or to put it another way, "If you have to ask..."
Most of the "Golarion specific" prestige classes can easily be adapted to other settings, usually just by changing the name and decoupling them from a Golarion god or group, with no mechanical change.
And some of them that in Golarion themed books don't even need that big a change. Like the Halfing Opportunist from Halflings of Golarion, which has absolutely nothing to do with Golarion at all. A lot of the crunch stuff in Golarion themed books isn't specific to that world, so you can adapt just about anything to other worlds.
pH unbalanced wrote:
I have a Sky Druid using the race boon I got at GenCon last year. I haven't actually played that PC yet, though. Sitting at level 2 on GM credits. As a pure caster, I just preferred not to play this one at level 1, since they tend to be fragile early. And I have a lot of low level PCs, so I haven't gotten around to playing this one, even at level 2.
And I've had a notion in the back of my head to use all the fighter bonus feats to go for all the tails with kitsune (bonus feats for combat, regular feats for more tails, obviously). But it's not something I'm in any rush to do. Like I said, I already have too many low level PCs.
This is really the heart of the matter. If a GM doesn't want certain things in his game, he should have the maturity to say so, rather than allowing them and then punishing players for doing them. Yes, there are some absolute standards that deserve to be called a "bad GM", and this is one of them.
James Krolak wrote:
My favorite ever use of Spider Climb was when I was GMing an adventure (don't want to name names) where there's a ghast waiting around a corner to ambush the PCs. The group used some magical scouting to discover it was there, and prepared accordingly.
The group had quite a few casters, so they put both Spider Climb and Invisibility on pregen Kyra. The girl playing Kyra then had the character climb to the ceiling and hung upside down invisibly, crawling past the ghast. The scary part is the sucker had high enough perception that it almost noticed her anyway.
Once Kyra was past the ghast, she channeled positive energy to hurt it as a surprise round, and then we rolled initiative to start the rest of the fight.
Yes to the first question, no to the second.
You've got a ball of flame in your hand. You can reach out and hurt people with it. That's a weapon, just as much as a dagger or sword. So yes, you threaten.
And no, I wouldn't let you use that hand for spellcasting, for the same reason. That hand's occupied.
Zach Williams wrote:
Agreed. There's a reason my first few PCs were human, before the Advanced Race Guide was even published. That bonus feat is huge, along with the extra skill ranks, and customizable bonus stat.
Well if we're all going to post counts:
Level 14 - 1
The level 1 doesn't have any xp, but I'm scheduled to play him next week. I really need to get one of the level 2s up to 3, just so I have a PC at every level from 1-8.
While you're correct about the most appropriate word usage, I don't see the point in being offended. But then, I rarely do.
John Compton wrote:
I read that and was considering posting to let him know that Paizo staff definitely read the comments here, even though they rarely respond. But he just doesn't seem like someone who's worth bothering to respond to.
I keep trying out new character ideas, too, but I don't always like every character enough to play them a lot. I have my favorites. It's not usually the mechanical concepts that determine my favorites, though. It's more likely to be which ones I have a "voice" and personality for at the table.
But I'm currently up to 15 registered characters, 12 of which I've actually played at least once. Of the 3 I haven't played, 2 of them are level 2 on GM credits. I have specific ideas for another 2 I'd like to build, and general ideas for at least half a dozen more that I'll probably get to eventually.
Yeah, I treat it as a pantheistic society, where most people offer occasional prayers to whatever got applies at different times. But they may have one that they worship above all others, if they have a specific reason to do so. You just hear about the most devout worshipers of a single god the most, because they're the extremists.
For instance, I play a cleric of Sarenrae in Pathfinder Society, who is devoted to her goddess first and foremost. But she'll offer occasional prayers to other good and neutral gods, if it seems appropriate at the time. Actually, having worked with a cleric of Pharasma a few times, and having seen several Pathfinders die in her career, I'd say she probably prays to Pharasma to care for their lost souls regularly, just not nearly as much as she prays to Sarenrae.
I also play a bard in PFS who doesn't have a deity listed on his character sheet, because he's not a devout follower of any one, and doesn't get any mechanical advantage from any religion. But as a freed slave, primarily an archer in combat, and bardic performer/spellcaster, he routinely offers prayers thanking Cayden Cailean for his freedom, Erastil for his skill with a bow, Nethys for his magical ability, and Shelyn for his performing ability. And yes, he is a member of the one and only alignment (NG) that's within one step of all four of those gods.