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Roy Greenhilt

Fromper's page

FullStarFullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 4,719 posts (4,988 including aliases). 4 reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist. 16 Pathfinder Society characters.


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Silver Crusade

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Durkula is using puns - he really is pure evil!!!

Silver Crusade

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Puna'chong wrote:
The pits made by the spells are dimensional space. You don't make an actual pit in the ground, so you can't use it for excavating or landscape decoration.

No, but with creative placement, you can still use it to bypass doors or walls. Have the pit go under the door, so you can climb down the pit on one side of the door, and climb out of the pit on the other.

Silver Crusade **

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wakedown wrote:
David_Bross wrote:
I GMed first steps the other day for 3 barbarians and 2 level 1 pregens who were new players to PFS. The barbarians made the rest of the table somewhat moot...

How many GMs are seeing a lot of PCs making level 1 barbarians that suddenly morph into something completely different upon reaching level 2? As some form of "my concept isn't good at level 1, so this Barbarian with 2d6+13 Power Attack and 26hp Tribal Scars is what I'm playing until I start my 4th scenario?"

And the same barbarian is then used again by the same player for their next ##,###-? before it morphs again into the "real desired PC". I think I've seen at least 5-6 people do this in the past 6 months now. Technically, they can do this, even if it gets a frown from the GM/coordinator. And, it's very true if 2 or more people are doing this in the same scenario, it really throws off the experience of the subtier 1-2 scenario for everyone involved (by marginalizing their respective contributions).

Now where's that level 4 bard BBEG with a scroll of Dominate when you need them?

Hasn't anyone told these people that skipping 1st level is what GM credit is for?

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I think it should Drandle Dreng as Uncle Sam instead.

Silver Crusade **

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Chris Mortika wrote:

DM Beckett, how do you adjudicate magus NPCs in scenarios?

The Magus class is in the APG and the PRD, neither of which is part of the Core assumption. Rules for magus characters aren't spelled out in the PFS Guide nor the individual scenarios.

The individual scenarios ALWAYS say "See Ultimate Magic" when there's a magus NPC involved. And if there's an oracle NPC, they ALWAYS say "See Advanced Players Guide". There's usually a page number given. Heck, every single monster specifically says which Bestiary to look it up in. That's just the way PFS scenarios are written.

Just this weekend, I've been prepping a scenario to run tomorrow where some of the NPCs have a prestige class from Inner Sea World Guide (Red Mantis Assassin). Not only does the adventure list the page number from ISWG, it also gives the relevant rules in the stat blocks of those NPCs for those GMs who don't own that book.

If there's a scenario that wants the GM to use non-Core assumption rules, the scenario WILL say so. Otherwise, the GM has no reason to know that there's something they should be looking up.

The new Guide to Organized Play gives some basic rules for tech items for season 6. It doesn't talk about the DC of identifying tech items or robots. Thus, if the rules aren't the same as identifying any other construct (knowledge: arcana with a DC of 15 + CR, since they're such rare "creatures"), then the scenario needs to explicitly say so.

Silver Crusade

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Rhapsodic College Dropout wrote:
I use Grease on giants to great effect. Target their massive weapons, and its a Reflex save every round until it drops and it stays coated for quite awhile. Use Heightened Grease if you really want to make it stick.

This is incorrect. This is actually a very common misconception about Grease, but I just recently learned that I've been playing it wrong all along.

If Grease is cast on an attended item, and the creature holding that item makes the initial saving throw, then the item doesn't get greased. Thus, there are no subsequent saving throws to see if they drop the item each round after the first.

Here's the FAQ about this.

That said, Grease is still a decent option against giants, just not quite as powerful as RCD thought.

Silver Crusade

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claudekennilol wrote:
Zhayne wrote:
claudekennilol wrote:
chaoseffect wrote:
blahpers wrote:
In other words, just because you believe the paladin's Code to be flawed does not mean that a paladin need not follow it.
Yes, a Paladin does RAW have to follow it. That doesn't stop it from being stupid, poorly done, or/and arbitrary in places.

RAW: lie: an intentionally false statement

None of my examples above of what a bluff could be are intentionally false.

"What's new, Mr. Paladin?"

"Well, back is out of joint, my genitals itch, I'm getting a minor headache, had diarrhea last night ..."
"Whoa, TMI!"
"Sorry, but if I don't tell you everything, I lose my powers."

rofl.

But you do bring up a good point, if a "lie by omission" is in fact a lie, then where you do draw the line?

You draw the line at the point that it's intentionally deceitful.

Silver Crusade **

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Ok, I didn't realize you were talking about druid specific domains from Ultimate Magic.

Nefreet's post covers it. Clerics and inquisitors in PFS must have a legal deity, and choose their domains from those offered by the deity, and none of the deities offer those druid domains. So this doesn't work in PFS.

Silver Crusade

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Does the bride have an identical twin sister?

Silver Crusade

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Paladins aren't about technicalities. They're about doing what's right at all times.

Being honorable includes being honest. That doesn't just mean technically avoid lies. It also means not being deceitful with truthful words.

Of course, they don't necessarily have to answer every question. In Anguish's example of a beasty looking for a little kid to eat, the paladin's answer should be "Be gone, evil fiend! Look elsewhere for your meal, unless you plan to attack me!"

Silver Crusade **

1 person marked this as a favorite.
FiddlersGreen wrote:

Laser pistols and blasters have been a part of the fantasy genre since the Might and Magic rpg series. Get with the program, you nay-sayers! XD

Hopefully I'm not the only person around here old enough to remember that series!

Disclaimer: this comment is meant to be taken light-heartedly.

Umm, no. I don't know this Might and Magic stuff, because I've never been much of a video gamer, but I just googled it, and I played AD&D 1st edition with lasers and robots before that video game. Deusvalt already provided the link, above.

Silver Crusade **

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Mistwalker wrote:

I too will chime in that it isn't the age of the player, but the maturity.

And there isn't an age limit on playing or GMing in PFS.

Adding a "me too" here.

I once GMed a 9 year old girl at a convention. She was a bit overly bloodthirsty, apparently wanting more of a hack and slash game, but a lot of adults are the same way. Overall, it was fun having her at the table.

Silver Crusade **

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Jane "The Knife" wrote:

two rogues fighting an animated chair...

1st rogue: "hay, can you get sneak dice on an animated object?'
2nd rogue: "only if you stab it in the back!"

Been there, done that. GMed a couple playing sibling rogues through an adventure that actually had an animated chair, so they flanked it together. The back stab puns ran wild.

Of course, this also reminds me of Gamers: Dorkness Rising: "You can't backstab a book!" "It's got a spine, doesn't it?"

Silver Crusade **

1 person marked this as a favorite.

This year's seasonal "theme" is on the nation of Numeria, which includes a crashed spaceship known as the Silver Mount. Two of the new scenarios that debuted at GenCon tied into this directly, and one of those has a laser on the chronicle sheet with very limited ammo.

My level 7 sorcerer thinks physical weapons are beneath him, (but so are direct damage spells), but as a gnome, he's too curious about this "technic stuff" not to try it. I might buy the laser for him, as the first weapon he's ever owned. If I do, when I pull it out while playing, I would definitely describe it without mentioning it's name. But then, I'm also likely to waste the ammo on things like starting campfires instead of using it against enemies.

Silver Crusade **

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Chris Mortika wrote:

Regarding magic re-roll shirts, my table policy is pretty simple: if you want a re-roll, you have to be wearing the shirt, as a shirt*, when the original roll happens. (If you just have the shirt handy, you should don it, and I can give you the re-roll onrolls you make from that point on.) For the folio, have it on the table.

Straight-forward, and abides by the language of the Guide.

* exceptions for the extreme heavy-set, for whom even the largest t-shirts are insufficient.

My problem with this is multi-day conventions. If someone bought one shirt and hoped to use it every time they play PFS, you're saying they have to wear the same shirt multiple days in a row. That's a problem.

I can see not allowing someone to just pull the shirt out of a bag when they need the re-roll. But if someone prominently displays the shirt without actually wearing it (draped over the back of their chair, or their backpack next to the table, etc), I think that should always be enough.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I have a friend who wore her "Chaotic Neutral: The real evil" t-shirt at GenCon this weekend.

Silver Crusade

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Tacticslion wrote:

It didn't "do" anything except get stabbed into Durkula.

It's a gag: he's not sure about it ("it'll take some getting used to"), then tests it on Durkula, succeeds in stabbing him, gets mind-controlled off the side, annoys Roy, and returns (notice his walking feet in the last panel) with "It's fine, thanks." indicating he's satisfied with it.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Ross, but since I came to a different conclusion, I'm leaving mine up. :)

Ok, I think you're right. The dagger didn't do anything. I think Belkar did actually stab Durkon, go overboard, and get hauled back in by Roy. The suddenness of it just seemed like a pyschic flash or something, but looking at the last panel, he's walking back in on V, who is sitting in a different position than when s/he gave B the knife (and the cat is done eating).

Silver Crusade **

1 person marked this as a favorite.

From the blog post introducing the change:

Quote:
Beginning on August 14th, creating an aasimar or tiefling character will require a special Chronicle sheet

I'd say the "beginning on" wording is pretty clear - August 13 is the actual deadline to play a grandfathered outsider without a boon.

It should be noted that the same wording was used for not needing a boon for kitsune, wayang, and nagaji PCs, which makes sense, since they want people to be able to start playing them tomorrow at GenCon.

So... what time zone are you in? It's still August 13 somewhere, right? :P

Silver Crusade

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Out of curiosity, I went back and found where Tarquin lost his dagger.

Silver Crusade **

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I'd say Core Rulebook and Advanced Players Guide are the core books that define the game, and everyone should have them.

Beyond that, it greatly depends on what type of PC you're playing. Ultimate Equipment, Advanced Race Guide, Inner Sea Magic, and Seeker of Secrets would probably be the next on my list.

Silver Crusade **

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Jiggy wrote:
Never trust some schmuck named Jiggy on the internet. ;)

QFT

:P

Silver Crusade **

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Hmm, I can see the new retirement story arc now:

6-21: Don't Worry, We're Pathfinders, part 1: Explore
6-22: Don't Worry, We're Pathfinders, part 2: Report
6-23: Don't Worry, We're Pathfinders, part 3: Cooperate

Silver Crusade **

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
The fact is, yes, morality is absolute.

You know, I really want to just walk away and not start a philosophy debate that could easily go on for thousands of posts (and thousands of years!), but I just can't let this one go.

No, morality is not absolute. Different societies have different values, and morality changes over time. The only absolute in the universe is change.

Sniggevert wrote:

Eating sentient humanoids is what is called out, as it would be considered cannibalism.

I truly am boggled by the number of posters that can't seem to understand why something like that might be considered anti-social, repugnant, or evil in society.

But eating a dragon that has higher intelligence and wisdom than most PCs is acceptable, because the creature's not a biped? No, I honestly don't understand why eating a humanoid is considered more taboo than eating other sentient creatures.

And again, I've been trying to avoid crossing the line into real world ethical debates, but as long as I've crossed it already, I may as well throw this out there too. Even in the real world, I don't consider cannibalism evil. Killing is clearly evil, and not respecting a person or their family's wishes for what to do with their body once they die is disrespectful. But if there were a society whose funeral practices involved eating the remains of the dead, you'd call it evil? Why? It might be unsafe, and many of us would consider it gross, but I don't see it as evil. It's a cultural taboo, not an absolute moral standard.

I'm a vegetarian in the real world because I refuse to kill (or pay others to kill) innocent animals that have enough sentience to want to live, feel pain and fear, and have any sort of emotions or personality. And I've had enough pets in my life to know that even birdbrains like chickens have unique personalities and emotions. In game terms, I disagree with killing anything with an intelligence score, even if that int score is only 1 or 2. But once an animal's already dead, it doesn't matter to me what happens to their body. The act of eating them isn't what I consider morally wrong - it's the act of killing them that I have a problem with.

Silver Crusade **

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
I was shocked tonight when I sat down at the table with my tiefling inquisitor of Szuriel and nobody gave me a funny look at all.

And this is why tieflings are being removed.

Silver Crusade **

1 person marked this as a favorite.
kinevon wrote:
Fromper wrote:
Yeah, the Trade Prince has always struck me as the most boring faction head, too.

Who? Isn't the Qadira faction leader Pasha Muhlia Al-Jakri?

** spoiler omitted **

From what I saw, Pasha was interesting in exactly one scenario - her last one.

Silver Crusade **

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Imbicatus wrote:
Fromper wrote:

"Should you or any of your team be caught or killed, the Society will disavow any knowledge of your actions. This Venture-Captain will self-destruct in five seconds."

Idea for a Scenario: A mad alchemist implants bombs in all the VCs.

Every time I GM The Disappeared, I want to play the Mission Impossible theme song and use this line.

Silver Crusade **

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"Should you or any of your team be caught or killed, the Society will disavow any knowledge of your actions. This Venture-Captain will self-destruct in five seconds."

Victor Zajic wrote:
noswald wrote:
There are quite a few scenarios where identifying yourself as a Pathfinder makes things worse. I've had tables where "IN THE VC BRIEFING" they specifically say to hide your affiliation with the Pathfinder Society, that immediately start using their Society resources at the first sign of trouble. It makes for some interesting scenarios.
I did that once, but that character takes his paladinhood fairly seriously.

Just because paladins can't lie, it doesn't mean they have to volunteer information.

Silver Crusade **

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I'm still lost as to how killing people is considered less evil than desecrating their bodies. Because Pathfinders kill people when they don't have to at pretty much EVERY FRIGGIN TABLE.

Other than a player intentionally role playing their PC as extremely good, when was the last time you saw a group of Pathfinders stabilize fallen foes? How often have adventurers gone in swinging to fight enemies that could have been talked to, or at least they should have tried talking to before killing them, even if it wouldn't have worked? Yet no one ever gets called out for being evil when they kill those sentient people.

I can honestly say that in over 150 tables of playing/GMing PFS, I can't think of a single table where less than half the PCs did something that would be considered evil by 21st century moral standards. Yet, other stuff that has been considered not only non-evil, but sometimes downright honorable in certain societies, is considered evil in PFS.

Silver Crusade

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"You mean I won't be the only prankster in the Society any more?" asks a small, blue skinned gnome with green hair sticking out in all directions.

"I don't do that combat maneuver stuff, though. I mostly just make fun of enemies, first to demoralize them, then to mock them, so they can't concentrate on what they're doing in fights."

Versatile Performance with Perform: Comedy as my intimidation skill to demoralize enemies, leaving them shaken (-2 to hit rolls, saves, skill checks, etc), then Mock bardic performance while their save is still at -2 to give them additional -2 to hit that stacks with the -2 from being shaken.

"Remember that Mocking people only works if they understand you, so be sure you have the Gift of Tongues" alternate racial trait that lets you learn 2 languages for each rank in linguistics "and learn as many languages as you can."

Here's a link to a thread I started when I made this character. And this one. And this one.

Silver Crusade **

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Hobbun wrote:
Joe M. wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
Do we have an ETA on the new player's guide?

As far as I can tell, there's been very little public information regarding the Season 6 guide.

My best guess is that it will be released on August 14th, when the new season kicks off.

I’m really hoping we receive it before then. I always like to print out and keep a hard copy of the guide, and would like to do that before I leave for GenCon.

Last year I believe season 5’s guide was released 4 days or so before GenCon.

Mike Brock already stated (just don't ask me where, but it was in one of these threads) that they're shooting for Monday to release the new Guide.

Silver Crusade **

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David Neilson wrote:

Had one scenario where we basically had to run up a tower while fighting. Finish that off and of course the next fight is the boss arriving at the bottom of the tower. So the monk jumps off and slow falls his way to the bottom. My life Oracle who had only gotten half way to the top of the tower looks down and jumps to the bottom. He takes the damage and goes prone.

What made it funny was when pretty much everyone else in the party jumped down after him starting with the fighter.

Sounds like it's time for the old "Cleric's Feather Fall".

Silver Crusade **

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Qstor wrote:

can we get new t-shirts? :)

Mike

I'm still waiting for "I fought the demons at the Worldwound, and all I got was this lousy t-shirt" for Year of the Demon.

Silver Crusade **

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Lots of newbies to PFS seem to misunderstand how item purchasing works. Unfortunately, the Guide to Organized Play has information all over the place, so it's not the easiest to read. Here's a basic summary I wrote a while ago and keep pasting into various related threads:

In order to purchase any item in Pathfinder Society, you must qualify to purchase that item by one of these three requirements:

1. It can be on the list of "always available" items in the Pathfinder Society Guide to Organized Play. This includes all non-magical goods (other than firearms and dragon scale armor), +1 weapons, +1 armors, +1 shields, potions and scrolls of level 0 or 1 spells, and Wayfinders.

2. It can be on any chronicle sheet your PC has earned. Be sure to keep your chronicles separate if you have more than one PC.

3. Its total value can be less than the maximum item value you can purchase for your fame, as listed in the Guide to Organized Play. Remember when upgrading items that this is based on total item value after the upgrade, not just what you're spending on the current upgrade.

Any items you qualify for using methods 1 or 3 must be confirmed as legal for PFS in the Additional Resources page. Items on chronicles don't need to be legal according to the Additional Resources, so you can sometimes get items that wouldn't normally be legal that way.

Silver Crusade

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The closest I ever came to a TPK in PFS was a table with 3 positive channeling clerics. 5 out of 6 dead. Just thought I'd mention that.

Grand Lodge **

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"I use pot holders - no have burning hands."

Sczarni

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Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:

Having said that, there are times it is a good idea.

  • Don't want him to die because raise dead is quite expensive...
  • Want to keep the only/last martial standing up between you and the green thing with teeth...
  • "HEY!!! Whatdya got agains' green guys wit' teeth???"

    Silver Crusade

    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    I have a cleric character in PFS that I don't introduce as a cleric. He's a pirate. The fact that the pirate goddess gives him spellcasting and a couple of domains is very useful. But I don't want people getting the idea that he has more healing available than his wands of Infernal Healing and Cure Light Wounds, because he doesn't.

    He channels negative energy, and he can only do that once per day, because he's so ugly and rude. And he only prepares spells that defeat enemies faster.

    Once he's high enough level for Breath of Life, I may consider prepping that, too, but it'll be a while. He's only level 4, and I have so many PCs that I don't play him that often.

    Sczarni **

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    Green Beard takes off his black tricorn hat with a skull and crossbones on it, and puts it over his heart.

    "May Pharasma have mercy on his soul."

    After pausing for a few seconds, he puts his hat back on.

    "So, uh... dibs on his boots."

    Silver Crusade **

    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    I used to play in a group like this. We played with whoever was available that week, rotating GMs, and bringing in new players whenever we felt like it. The group worked out great for more than a year, until a few of our most active members (including myself) moved away from the area. Of course, we also occasionally went to conventions, so it was nice having those characters for when we traveled to those cons.

    As others have said, there are some continuous story lines you could play if you choose, but the entire point of the system is that it's fairly modular, so you don't have to. Also as others have said, if you're worried about difficulty for newbies, stick to seasons 0-2, and early season 3. Later in season 3 is when they started making things harder, and a couple of those got kind of rough. Season 4 was brutal, but season 5 seems to have found a better balance of not too tough and not too easy, from the scenarios I've played so far.

    Taldor **

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    Galdur XXI wrote:
    On a personal note. May I add that this idea once again justly marks supporting your 'promotion' over the Baron Dalsine as the correct choice?

    "Yeah, Lady Gloriana's much better at this than the Baron. No matter how bad the pressure gets, she never loses her head."

    Silver Crusade **

    1 person marked this as a favorite.
    Ross Byers wrote:
    Or maybe they just felt it was time for a change, that more races should be added. Removing old choices at the same time as new choices are added makes sense: it keeps things from getting overcrowded and helps keep things fresh, and gets people to make different characters.

    Yeah, I'd love to get some sort of clarification from PFS management as to whether this is a one time thing, or if they plan on rotating races in and out every year or two this way going forward. But I suspect they haven't decided for sure yet, and are waiting to see player reaction to this year's transition first.

    Personally, I think the rotating races thing would work out great. Since elemental races are the current boons, I'd say keep giving those out as race boons through season 6, then switch to different race boons in season 7. Then, at the end of season 7/start of season 8 (2 years from now), eliminate the Tien races (tengu, kitsune, nagaji, and wayang) as always available, and replace them with the four elemental races as the new non-Core races that are always available.

    Cheliax **

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    "Mistress Dralneen, we haven't been formally introduced. My name is Azkadellia, and while my power comes primarily from inborn magic, like you, I've recognized the need to augment my abilities with power from other sources."

    "As a young sorceress in Riddleport, I allied myself with those Sczarni thugs, because I recognized that allies are another form of power, and I continued that allegiance when I joined the Pathfinder Society. But with that fool Guaril joining forces with that Qadiran businessman and trying to make it all about money, I fear I've gotten all I can out of my association with him and his 'family'. My primary interest has always been power, not gold."

    "This new archival venture is of interest to me. I'd be curious to see what dark magic the Society has access to. With my magical abilities, I believe I can be of assistance in uncovering uses for some of these items, to both of our mutual benefit."

    I can't believe nobody's made the obvious connection here yet...

    "As for other curators used to dealing with such powerful objects, I've heard that the Blackros Museum is practically bursting with dark magic that they don't know how to control. Given the Society's good relationship with the Blackros family lately, I'd think this would be an ideal place for us to set up shop. Their curator, Nigel Aldain, seems like he'd be easily manipulated into serving our purposes."

    Silver Crusade **

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    David Bowles wrote:
    My fighter uses a shield! Fighters are actually quite good at squeezing good damage out of a one hander. Good damage, mind you, not murderhobo damage.

    My battle oracle's the same way. Longsword, full plate, and shield. He's more focused on tanking than damage, but with stuff like 19 starting strength and boosted regularly, Power Attack, Divine Favor, and Enlarge Person, he still does some useful damage.

    On the other hand, my fighter doesn't use a shield. I intentionally built him to see if I could get tank-like AC without one, while still doing two handed levels of damage. With the tiefling racial Armor of the Pit feat for +2 natural armor, and fighter armor training letting more than +1 dex bonus through his full plate, it's not that hard. Add in the usual Defender of the Society, Dodge, Mobility, etc. All the emphasis on armor will slow his damage enough to keep him out of the top levels of the DPR olympics, but he's still a guy with a greatsword, 18 starting strength, Power Attack, and eventually stuff like Weapon Specialization and Greater for even more damage. Plus the bite attack, just for kicks.

    Speaking of which (and back on topic)...

    You know you're in trouble when you get to the table and ...

    ... the guy with a bite attack is on the front line against a slime.

    Shadow Lodge **

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    "Me Mash!!! Me big, tough barbarian!!! Me Venture-Captain!!!"

    "Me still in Shadow Lodge, watch out fer other Pathfinders. Not care about other factuns. Me hear Torch leave. Me want restart Shadow Lodge without him."

    Retired at level 14, before his faction disappeared.

    Silver Crusade

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    Well, the Death Star hasn't tried to blow up Golarion yet, so I don't think they've gone too far yet.

    Though that could make for an interesting Numeria themed adventure path. Not just dealing with the crashed aliens, but finding out there's a planet crushing spaceship/space station on its way to completely wipe out Golarion. The PCs eventually have to teleport on board and stop it before it succeeds.

    Silver Crusade

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    Demoyn wrote:
    I don't want to turn this into a huge religious or political discussion, but I have to disagree. Building your paladin to be easily misled is just basing your character in reality. People that blindly follow codes (religious and political zealots) are, by their very definition, lacking in wisdom.

    You obviously have no idea what a paladin is, or what a code of conduct is. Following a code isn't the same as blindly following a code. A paladin understands their code of conduct, chooses it because they agree with it, and sees it as a way of life, not a limitation.

    Let me put it to you this way: Have you ever committed murder? Why not? Because you were afraid of getting caught, or because it's not something you'd ever genuinely want to do? That's how a paladin feels about their code of conduct.

    It's not a limitation, and they don't follow it because they have to. Following it is just who they are. And most of them are smart enough to realize that other people don't feel the same way, and won't follow the same code. They aren't required to stop their party members from violating their code, even when they do know that it's happening, so their code shouldn't be a limitation on anyone else in the party, unless the party members want to do blatantly evil things.

    I still recommend you read the links I provided in my earlier post. There are some good discussions there, dispelling the myth of the "lawful stupid" paladin. There are also some good paladin behavior threads here on the forums you might want to read, some with really great examples of well played paladins.

    And as for your earlier post saying that the "lawful stupid" stereotype comes from somewhere. You're right. It does come from somewhere. It comes from a lot of people like you misunderstanding the class over the years, which is why discussions about this sort of thing are so common.

    Demoyn wrote:
    Tanking wisdom on a paladin does lower your will save, but it doesn't TANK your will save. From the moment you hit level 2 you'll still have a higher will save than any other martial class in the game (except POSSIBLY a ranger, who you'll surpass again a few levels later). Even if the paladin DOES get controlled, he's the least likely to cause party deaths because he can't use his signature ability against good and neutral characters (ie your party).

    This part I actually agree with you about. As posted above, I'm planning to dump wisdom on my paladin. I'll still have +4 Will at level 2, which is better than most martial PCs. I may miss out on surprise rounds sometimes, but I accept that as a consequence of my decision.

    Silver Crusade

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    Demoyn wrote:
    TriOmegaZero wrote:
    Demoyn wrote:

    That's cool for you and all. I absolutely want you to play however you're happy playing. The OP asked for advice on a character build, though, not for advice on a play style.

    On top of that, you're still not giving respect to the fact that a typical party needs to be able to trick the paladin so they can accomplish goals without being hindered by his paladin code. That ALONE is reason to dump wisdom into the dirt.

    I'm not speaking to the OP anymore. I'm replying to other people in the thread. And I give no respect to the idea that paladins need to be tricked by the party because I have never been in a party where such a thing was true.
    Odd. I've never seen a party where that WASN'T true. Maybe you should watch Gamers 2!

    So let me get this straight. Your assumption about how paladins MUST be played is based on jokes from a movie that makes fun of bad gamer stereotypes??? Did you miss the part where the whole thing is making fun of people who play paladins badly? Just like the sorceress is a joke on guys who play female characters badly, the bard makes fun of people thinking bards are useless, etc. That's the whole point of the movie.

    Here are some guides that talk about paladin personalities and how to play them, all of which dismiss the "lawful stupid" stereotype as annoying and unnecessary:

    Bodhi's Guide (see first two pages)
    Thallin's Guide
    An entire guide on nothing but paladin's codes (interesting, if long winded)

    And for truly terrific examples of paladins, how to play (and not play) them well with different personalities, check out The Order of The Stick, which deals with the topic wonderfully. Keep going through the entire thing, at least until the storylines with the paladins end (somewhere around page 700, IIRC). And once again, much humor is found in ripping the "lawful stupid" stereotype to shreds, while in this case, they simultaneously present examples of other paladins with varying and interesting personalities who aren't like that.

    And after all that, I think I'll save my mechanical questions/comments for another post.

    Silver Crusade

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    Everyone keeps talking about aid another in combat.

    In my experience, it gets used a LOT more in skill checks. I play PFS, so I'm dealing with different players at the table every week, and I can't remember a session when we didn't use aid another at least 10 times on skill checks. With 3-5 people trying to help the main skill guy succeed at something, even if only half of them succeed at hitting DC 10, you'll get anywhere from +2 to +10 on the skill check.

    The article probably should have mentioned the Bodyguard feat, not to mention the Halfling Opportunist prestige class, who gets more aid from others than the normal +2, regardless of who's aiding them. I have a dex based Halfling Opportunist with the Helpful trait, and he already has Combat Reflexes for normal reasons. I'll take Bodyguard for him as soon as I have a spare feat (might not be until level 11).

    Silver Crusade

    2 people marked this as a favorite.

    I'm currently planning a dwarf fighter based on all the cool toys in the Advanced Race Guide (and not much else):

    1. Foehammer archetype - gives up the fighter Armor Training that doesn't help dwarves as much as other races in favor of more hammer-focused stuff, including bonuses to bull rush and trip.
    2. Dwarven Longhammer - 2d6 damage with reach, so you don't have to worry about provoking when you trip without Improved Trip
    3. Dwarven Boulder Helmet - Always threaten adjacent foes with a headbutt, +2 AC vs crit confirms, and +2 to bull rush if you violate NFL regulations and lead with your helmet, all for just 20 gp. And it works great with...
    4. Hard-Headed, Dented Helm, Cloven Helm feat chain - Bonuses to head butt or bull rush with your helmet, saves vs staggered or stunned, AC vs crits, and reduces damage from crits. Just be sure to keep extra helmets in your Handy Haversack once you get that Dented Helm feat at level 6, since crits could sunder the one you're wearing down to nothing. They're only 20 gp, so feel free to go through them like popcorn.
    5. Power Attack - Duh!
    6. Improved and Greater Bull Rush feats - Since the helm and archetype already give you bonuses for bull rushes, you may as well go all the way with it. No weird prerequisites like some combat maneuver feats that require Combat Expertise. You just need Power Attack and 13 str for Improved Bull Rush, which you'll already have.
    7. Relentless and Rock Stepper alternate racial traits - More bonuses to bull rushes, and ability to 5 ft step through the mess you make in the ground with your hammer.

    It's probably not going to be the strongest, most uber-optimized front liner around, but you can easily start with 17 strength, boosted to 18 at level 4, plus Power Attack, on a 2d6 weapon with full BAB. The fact that you'll have reach and bonuses to trip will give a little battlefield control, and you'll easily be able to push people around with bull rushes.

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