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Roy Greenhilt

Fromper's page

FullStarFullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 4,444 posts (4,675 including aliases). 1 review. No lists. 1 wishlist. 15 Pathfinder Society characters.


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Silver Crusade

Blood of Fiends wrote:
Shame and horror fill your subconscious, and you never stop looking for ways to grant yourself the peace of the grave. Once per day, as an immediate action, you can make yourself the target of any attack originally directed against a creature occupying an adjacent square.

I'm playing an AC tank tiefling fighter in PFS, so this is an obvious fit.

Two questions:
1. When do I have to declare myself the target? Can I wait to see if the attack on my adjacent ally hits, or do I have to declare it as soon as the GM says who they're attacking? I could honestly see going either way on this one, but I'd probably lean towards the non-cheesy declaring it before the attack roll.
2. Since it just says the original target of the attack has to be adjacent, does this mean I can soak up hits from enemies that don't have enough reach to get to me? After all, it doesn't say I have to be adjacent to the enemy, or even within its reach. I see this as "I jump out in front, so part of my body is in the square with the guy being attacked", so I'd say that should work.

As mentioned, this is for PFS, so RAW answers only. No "ask your GM", since it'll be a different GM every time.

Silver Crusade **

How about different rules in the same source?

Mithral Shirt vs Mithral Chain Shirt - Don't have page numbers, since I'm looking at the PRD and don't have the book in front of me at the moment:

  • Core Rulebook, Equipment Chapter - Chain Shirt weighs 25 lbs, and making an item mithral reduces item weights in half, resulting in 12.5 lb weight
  • Core Rulebook, Magic Item chapter - Despite being non-magic, this item is listed there with exactly the same price and stats as the Equipment chapter, except with a 10 lb weight.

Silver Crusade

Melkiador wrote:
So, WE seem to be in consensus, but I guess it doesn't much matter if his GM disagrees. What would you guys do in a situation like this? Try to explain things to the GM again? Go on with the weaker ruling? Reroll?

During the session, go along with the ruling. Don't hold up the game to debate a ruling for very long.

Since this was for PFS, it may never come up again, if they never play with that GM again.

But if they do see that GM again, or if they have his email address, I'd send the guy to this thread. Address it with him out of game, when there's more time to debate without slowing down the existing session.

Silver Crusade **

LazarX wrote:
Fromper wrote:
Bonekeep with 3 players.
I would give the players an option to run with a preen while noting that this an advanced scenario. If they choose to risk it, I'll allow it.

I think we were considering Harsk as our 4th.

Silver Crusade

Yeah, I'll probably just have them encounter some more of the ghouls as a random encounter while heading to Foxglove Manor, then level up to 6th after fighting them.

RuyanVe, they're already down at the Hambley Farm, heading for nearby Foxglove Manor. The geographic convenience is part of why they just want to keep moving on in that direction, so I don't think they'd accept any side trek without a really good reason. And especially going back to Sandpoint for Chopper's Isle is out.

Silver Crusade

Kris G wrote:

Is anyone else still not seeing their GM stars? I have 36 tables of credit (close to what my original number had been) and I still have no stars on forum posts, nor on my PFS ID card. Just curious if there are still people out there with this issue.

It seems to be fixed for just about everyone. I know some people were saying that if they logged a new GM session during the time it was broken, it wouldn't be fixed for them until they logged another new session after the fix. So that might be your problem, if you haven't GMed at all since it was fixed.

Silver Crusade **

Kyle Baird wrote:
Fromper wrote:
Yeah, I know. Fighters with all those iterative attacks just take way too long. :P
Over all the most common fighter build types, does it take longer to run a fighter at a given level than the average of all the other classes out there?

You must have missed the smiley at the end of my post, which was included as an aid for the sarcasm impaired.

Silver Crusade

So my group just played the walking scarecrows chapter last session, or part of it anyway. They had just leveled up to 5th level right before the session.

The group went straight to the Hambley farmhouse and barn, and only met one "walking" scarecrow along the way (and I believe two normal scarecrows). They defeated the enemies at the farmhouse and barn, and now they want to continue to Foxglove Manor immediately, since they figured out what "The Misgivings" was from their visit to the sanitorium.

So I have two problems with this, as a GM:

1. That means they're leaving a dozen "walking" scarecrows in the field at the Hambley Farm. That could come back to bite them (or the townsfolk) later. Pun intended.

2. I prefer having them level up during logical breaks in the adventure, so I want them to be level 6 before they even enter Foxglove Manor, but they were only level 5 for one relatively short session. Killing a ghast and 7 ghouls shouldn't really be enough to earn a level at this point, but I'm having them level up based on the where the adventure says they should be, not xp, so I could force it, I guess.

So what I'm really looking for is an excuse to force them stick around the Hambley Farm and do a thorough job finding all those ghouls before moving on to Foxglove Manor. Or at least SOMETHING to justify having them level up to 6th level so quickly, since I would feel bad kinda railroading the adventure that way.

Maybe I'll just through in a "random" encounter between the Hambley Farm and Foxglove Manor to have them fight more ghouls to make up for some that they skipped in the corn field. And still have some of the remaining scarecrows come back to haunt Sandpoint and the other farms in the area later.


Silver Crusade **

Kyle Baird wrote:

I don't like any class that averages more than one standard deviation away from the normal length of time to take a turn. If I have to do a lot of extra work to guarantee equal involvement of every player at the table, I'm not happy and I probably hate you.

Counter argument: "well I can do X to speed up class or option Y"

Counter to the counter: "great, I'm talking about averages. The average player using an average build of a given class using average tactics. If the class itself takes twice as long to run in combat, then it needs to be refined or removed. I'm looking at you pet classes and classes that routinely require 10 d20 rolls plus math each turn."

Yeah, I know. Fighters with all those iterative attacks just take way too long. :P

Silver Crusade **

I think the key to making Sacred Geometry work without slowing down the table would just be to discuss it with the GM and make your first few rolls before the session even starts. You know how many dice you'll be rolling whenever you use it, so why not roll in advance to get your numbers for the first 3-5 times you use it in a session? Then you can spend the next hour doing the math to calculate prime numbers based on those rolls, so you're all prepared before it comes up in combat.

Silver Crusade **

David knott 242 wrote:
Fromper wrote:
Gah! My mistake. For some reason, I thought chain shirts were 200 gp, not 100. Not sure where I got that idea from.

The breastplate, which is the medium armor counterpart to the chain shirt, costs 200 GP. Maybe you were thinking of that?

Probably. I have a couple of clerics who run around in breast plates.

Silver Crusade **

Gah! My mistake. For some reason, I thought chain shirts were 200 gp, not 100. Not sure where I got that idea from.

Silver Crusade **

nosig wrote:

a friend of mine was handed a Barbarian PC to play during a game, one that had been drawn up by someone not at the game and not strongly reviewed by the players.

Getting into the character, she began "speaking like a barbarian" things like "Thog hit monster with big ax" or "Thog say - that best you got?"

This goes on for several hours into the game, everyone having fun and the story comes to an area where everyone needs to anounce their INT (I think there was an INT check for something) and she glances down and notices that this barbarian has a high INT... something like a 16. Everyone but her is speechless and takes a second to look at her. She just glances around at everyone looking at her and says..."W'ut? Thog not stupid, Thog just have speech im-ped-a-mint."

great line...

From my back story for my first PFS character, Mash the barbarian, who usually introduces himself with "Me Mash! Me like ta hit stuff!"

Mash truly enjoys fighting, and playing up the stereotype of the big, dumb barbarian, such as talking in short phrases and referring to himself as "me" instead of "I". But his intelligence and wisdom are only slightly below average, so he's not quite as stupid as he pretends to be. Years of not living up to his family's expectations taught him that it's better to be underestimated than overestimated.

Silver Crusade **

*boggle* I never noticed that item before. It's a mithral chain shirt in every possible way, except it costs 100 gp less and weights 2.5 lbs less. Why is this even an item? And how come I never noticed it before? I have a couple of characters with mithral chain shirts that I paid 1200 for instead of saving a 100 for this thing.

I was about to answer that all non-magic items are always available, except for dragonhide, but then I checked the wording the Guide to Organized Play. It specifically says that everything in chapter 6 is always available (except dragonhide) and that non-magical items from "any other source that is legal for play" are always available. The question is whether "any other source" means other books, or if that phrase includes other parts of the Core Rulebook, as well. I honestly don't know.

Silver Crusade **

BigNorseWolf wrote:

If you're a 2 skill point per level class, you're not making any skill checks anyway. If you're going to dump to 9, there's NO reason not to go whole hog and dump to 7 anyway.

Which is why I never have a single digit int for those classes. Like I said, my barbarian's the only PC I've ever made with single digit int, and he still got 4 ranks per level. My PFS clerics, fighters, sorcerers, etc are usually around 12 int. In fact, I have a fighter with 14 int.

Silver Crusade **

Do people dump int a lot? That's the one mental stat I dump the least, because I like skill points. I dropped it to 8 on my barbarian, but he's human, so still got 4 skill ranks every level. I don't think I've ever dumped int on any other PFS PC.

I only dump wisdom on a class with good Will saves and other ways to compensate.

For that matter, I've only ever dumped charisma on fighters. But my other martial characters are frequently charisma based on the side (battle oracle, paladin, bards, etc).

Come to think of it, strength is my most common dump stat, because I keep dumping it on my totally non-martial casters. I'm pretty sure I've never had a single digit dex or con on any of my 16 PFS PCs.

I do tend to dump one stat on most characters for min/maxing, but it depends on the character concept. There are a couple with no single digit stats. And my idea of dumping isn't necessarily the lowest possible, either. Some of them are only down to 8 or 9. Or 6 or 7 in a stat that could drop as far as 5 for that race. I've never done a 5 stat on any PC, despite having obvious opportunities to do so - my tiefling fighter has 6 charisma.

For mental stats of 8 or 9, that's close enough to average that I don't feel the need to "play it up" in character. Once you're down to 7, then it should probably affect how the character interacts with others. And I do make a point of having fun with that, using it as an excuse to give my PCs fun quirks.

Silver Crusade **

pickin_grinnin wrote:
I just want to play the regular game. I was looking for a way to get involved in playing without having to join a weekly group, since I don't currently have the ability to commit to going to a game at the same time every week (due to work), and the PFS sounded like a great way to do that. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like it will work out well for me.

It sounds like PFS would be perfect for you. I think you're getting too caught up in the internet discussion. As I joked earlier, these forums aren't for PFS players, they're for people who like arguing on the internet.

If you "Just want to play the regular game", then pick a race from the Core Rulebook and play. Those races will never go anywhere. They're supposed to be the standards.

For the first 4 years of Society play, the Core races were the only races that were legal for most players, unless someone happened to luck into a boon at a convention. Other races were opened up to everyone later, and now they're changing what some of the available non-Core races are.

Like I said, these types of changes don't happen very often. This is only the second major change of this type in 6 years of Society play. It's a stable and rapidly growing campaign, with lots of new character options from new books being opened up all the time. They just want to limit non-Core races a little to try and keep those Core races as the standards.

But for a newbie to Society play, just pick a Core race, make a character, show up, and play. Many of the adventures published for PFS are truly fantastic. Others are merely passable. Very few are even remotely bad. Either you'll enjoy playing with the people in your local community, or you won't. Don't worry about the secondary nonsense.

Silver Crusade **

Bonekeep with 3 players.

Silver Crusade

So I had an evil notion for my paladin. Maybe she calls herself a samurai of Shizuru, even though she's a paladin. That could confuse the heck out of the other players at the table, especially since this is for PFS, where I'll be playing with different people each session.

I still want at least one good personality quirk to make her interesting to play. I'll probably use some combination of back stories from above, but I like having something that I can use every session to give my characters some personality.

Silver Crusade **

I'd call Seeker of Secrets and Adventurer's Armory must haves. They're the only sources for spring loaded wrist sheathes and ioun stone resonant powers.

I'm a huge fan of Inner Sea Magic. Tattooed Sorcerer, Dawnflower Dervish bard, and some nifty spells like Pugwumpi's Grace, among other things.

Obviously, the Animal Archive is good if you ever want to play a PC with pets.

If you're ever planning to do a halfling, get Halflings of Golarion, just for the Helpful trait, if nothing else. There are some other traits and racial stuff, too, including the Jinx thing, which I still want to try one of these days.

If you're ever going to want to do a cleric or other divine follower of a Tien deity, you'll need the Dragon Empires Gazateer, which lists all the favored weapons, domains, and subdomains that aren't in other books. Other than that, I think it's mostly redundant with Dragon Empires Primer, but with just a little more detail on the fluff. But not enough to buy it just for the fluff if you already have DEP.

Silver Crusade **

pickin_grinnin wrote:
To be honest, this sort of arbitrary thing is part of why I have been hesitant to get invested in PFS play. Having to earn the right to maybe get to play a particular class or race doesn't sit well with me, nor does having options suddenly disappear.

In 6 years of PFS, character options have been taken away by campaign leadership exactly twice.

The first time, they banned 4 or 5 class archetypes, with no grandfathering option for existing characters, but it was pretty obvious why they did it. One or two were severely overpowered, one was a table hog due to excessive summoned pets, and at least one didn't fit the tone of the campaign because it was just plain evil. I'd say that allowing those options into the campaign in the first place was a mistake, but they were new things in new books, and the PFS management team erred on the side of over-inclusiveness when the books first came out.

Removing these two races is the second of those times, and they did give us three new races to replace them, plus more than a month's warning for people to make new characters and get them grandfathered in. So these races may be restricted, but they're not banned. Nobody has to rebuild an existing character to a different race.

Aasimar and tiefling characters are clearly the 2nd and 3rd most common PC races behind humans, and that's obviously driven by power gaming. I don't buy the "story" reason of this change. But I do understand the reason behind it, and accept that this will help shift the focus back to Core races, plus the three new races that some of us were previously able to play by race boons, but are now available to everyone.

My point is that the PFS team at Paizo doesn't just randomly ban things. Taking away character options isn't something that happens very often, and when it does, there's usually an obvious reason for it. It's not something that should prevent anyone from getting invested in PFS. There are tons of good options you can use to make your characters, and even more options get added about a thousand times as often as things are taken away.

Silver Crusade

I learned from the best.

Silver Crusade

Hayato Ken wrote:
On a side note, anyone knows a ood mini for a hafling musket master?

Normal mini size is 28 mm, so try looking for 15 mm minis for wargaming. They're roughly half the size, and you can find them in a variety of styles, not just intended for D&D/Pathfinder type games. I'm sure you can find some old style gun wielding types if you look around.

Silver Crusade **

Wolfspirit wrote:

The issues with how the various tracks were organized aside, the lack of concrete physical evidence or motive was what was most problematic for the group I ran it for. I had to prod them a few times that the circumstantial evidence was really more than they thought.

While I'm at it, a few more constructive notes:
For groups that *really* want to go off script, the "Word on the Street" rumors went fast (there really wasn't an equivalent for "I interview the deceased's family" or "I attempt to break into Ekira's room looking for clues.")

Sounds like my table when I played. No matter how much circumstantial evidence we accumulated, I just wasn't convinced we had enough to go to the sheriff with yet.

Silver Crusade

Yeah, I know about the naming order. My other Tien character follows that, even while living in the Inner Sea. His name is Norowareta Nagagorjo. I got Nagagorjo from a list of "typical" nagaji names in one of the books. Norowareta is Japanese for "cursed", which replaced his family name when his oracle curse kicked in and he was banished from his family and home village. His fellow Pathfinders call him "Gorjo" for short.

I'm not sure what the standard is exactly in Golarion, especially when dealing with the Inner Sea. I'm just assuming this one will try to fit in when dealing with "westerners", since family name second just sounds better to me personally for this name. Also, if her family name is made up and doesn't reflect a real family, it might just not be important to her. Which goes back to the whole wondering about her real ancestors thing.

I'm thinking she shouldn't come from a country with a strong military or an immediate desperate need for warriors to fight oppressive rulers. Either way, the incentives to stay home would be too great. Maybe a human country, where she was raised by the community (an orphanage, monastery, etc), not adopted by a specific family. The people who raised her keep dying of old age before she truly reaches adulthood, so she feels even less like she fits in than just because she's a different race.

I like the suggestion that maybe she turns to Shizuru while trying to understand what to do about her uncertain ancestry, and what to do in life. The goddess's role in swordplay is what influences her to become a warrior. Wanting to do good in the world, but not truly fitting in where she lives, she seeks out someone to train her in swordplay in relative isolation, away from her earlier home. And not having specific ties to her home gives her plenty of excuse to go wander and end up in the Inner Sea.

This works, but my problem is that it still doesn't give her a personality. We've come up with a few possible back stories that I could use. But she needs a personality quirk, besides just a back story, to make her interesting to play.

Silver Crusade

Well, I definitely like the name I came up with, but I'm not really sold on the back story. Though the last name Hamamoto means "near the sea shore, but I also found Yamamoto, which means "base of the mountain", so I could use either, depending on where I decide she was found as a baby.

What I really want more than anything is a back story that answers the question of why she's obsessed with swordfighting, and then why she'd leave her homeland to go join the Pathfinder Society in the Inner Sea region. Being raised specifically to be a soldier, and sent away to get some real world experience works, but it's kinda generic and boring. Also, I'm thinking any nation with a really organized military wouldn't have sent her away - she'd just be part of that military hierarchy.

Maybe she wasn't raised from birth to be a soldier, but chose to focus entirely on her katana and the goddess of swordplay herself. But why? The whole growing up in isolation thing works for explaining her low wisdom, being young and naive, but it still needs an explanation. Also, "young" is relative, given that aasimar reach adulthood at 60, so the minimum age for a paladin would be 66, and average starting age would be 81.

Looking through the Dragon Empires again, I noticed the elven nation of Jinin. Shizuru is one of the major deities there, and it says they live similar to the samurai of Minkai, more devoted to honor and tradition than western elves. Unlike growing up in human lands, this could give an aasimar a chance to grow up with adults who won't die of old age before she reaches adulthood. Although being raised by humans who died of old age could be an excuse for her to leave her original home, so maybe a human nation would be most appropriate.

So I keep tossing ideas around, but I'm not entirely happy with any of them.

Silver Crusade

boring7 wrote:
Fromper wrote:
Samurai Jane

In the Dragon Empires of Tian Xia, Aasimar mostly come from Tianjing the country which is straight-up blessed by the gods, formerly ruled by celestials, and was the one of the few to never be ruled by the Lung Wa.

But Kimyōna Shukufuku (strange blessing) was found in Hwanggot and essentially raised as a "spiritual arms race" trying to undermine Tianjing's heavenly mandate with their own god-touched citizen.

Gotta take a shower, so that's all I got for the moment.

I was looking at Tianjing, but I don't know if I can see that kind of rivalry with Hwanggot. They're both good nations, and there are monster run evil nations nearby. You'd think they'd be allies, or at least cordial neighbors.

But being from Tianjing might explain how there's a spare, abandoned aasimar baby around. When the race is the majority of the country, there's bound to be the occasional orphan.

Dragon Empires Primer talks about Tianjing having to fend off bandits and things since the fall of Lung Wa, so returning to their much earlier militaristic roots. There's even a trait called Tianjing Temple Guard that's based around guarding one of the nation's temple cities from bandit raids. So the idea that an orphan baby might be sent to such a temple city to be raised, and would end up with military training because of it, kind of fits. It's not quite as isolated as I originally had in mind, but it still works.

I was also looking at Japanese names on the internet. Apparently, Keiko means "lucky/blessed child", which seems appropriate for a baby found abandoned. Hamamoto means "near the sea shore", which could be a descriptor for where she was found. So I think I like Keiko Hamamoto for a name.

Silver Crusade **

Yup. In that example, you can play Kyra and apply the credit to Bob. But if you had a level 8 character (Jack), you couldn't play Kyra and give the chronicle to Jack.

But I've seen that done. Maybe. I know that I've seen people with characters in tier intentionally choose to play a pregen instead, but I'm not sure which characters they've given the credit to each time.

Silver Crusade

FLite's post, and the posts it was responding to, are the reason we need a PFS specific answer to this.

The non-PFS answer was already published.

Ultimate Combat wrote:
Weapon groups are defined as follows (GMs may add other weapons to these groups, or add entirely new groups)

Given the line about GMs adding other weapons, there's no reason for Paizo to make a ruling on this. Every game GM can make their own ruling. And they'd have to be a pretty big prick not to include the most obvious weapons, IMHO.

The problem is that we want a PFS ruling from the top to avoid table variation at PFS games. That's why this is a PFS specific thread that should be moved back to the PFS subforum.

Silver Crusade

Yes, aasimars can be evil. There's even a Paizo Adventure Path where the main villain in one of the books is an aasimar.

Silver Crusade **

You're right. I misread that part. It's only the character you apply it to that counts for not being able to play the pregen, not all your PCs. But I've still seen people play pregens instead of their own characters on a few occasions when they could have played their PC, in violation of this rule.

Silver Crusade **

Wow. I never noticed that. So you're not allowed to play with a level 4 or 7 pregen just to use a different character than your own, if you have one in that level range.

Among other things, this means that someone with a level 10+ character and no characters in the 5-9 range can't play 5-9 adventures with a level 7 pregen and apply it to a lower level character.

Given that I've seen this done dozens of times (quite possibly over 100), and there were venture-officers at many of those tables, I'd say this qualifies as one of the most misunderstood rules in PFS. But as SCPRedMage points out, it's right there in the Guide. Most of us just never read it and payed that much attention.

Silver Crusade **

Misroi wrote:


Vive le Galt!

I actually do wish NPC classes were allowed in PFS. I've had character ideas that begin with one level of an NPC class and go from there. But I can understand banning them - they're underpowered and could bring a table down if not done by an experienced munchkin.

Silver Crusade

This is why I revived the thread. We all know the common sense call that any home GM would make. What I'm looking for is an official response from Paizo to make the common sense answer PFS legal. Which is also why moving this thread to the Rules subforum was a mistake. This is PFS specific.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Well, the Death Star hasn't tried to blow up Golarion yet, so I don't think they've gone too far yet.

Though that could make for an interesting Numeria themed adventure path. Not just dealing with the crashed aliens, but finding out there's a planet crushing spaceship/space station on its way to completely wipe out Golarion. The PCs eventually have to teleport on board and stop it before it succeeds.

Silver Crusade

So the tiefling fighter is pretty much settled. I had that mechanical character idea in mind even before the announcement that tieflings and aasimars would no longer be legal for new PCs in Pathfinder Society after GenCon. Now he's all detailed, with a name, personality, and character sheet, and I'm signed up to play him on Monday.

So moving on to my next new character (because I have way too many ideas in my head to keep up with making and playing them all)...

I've also wanted to do a melee paladin for a while, and I figured I'd go angel blooded aasimar while I can, just for something different. I've never played an aasimar before, though I know it's a stereotype in PFS already, which is part of why they're being banned.

Just to get away from the stereotypical Iomedae worshiping paladins that are all over PFS, I decided to go with Shizuru for a patron goddess, the lawful good Tien goddess of the sun, honor, ancestors, and swordplay, with the katana as her favored weapon.

I'm not sure why, but I've started thinking of this PC as female in my head while building her, so I'm just gonna go with it.

She'll have the Fey Foundling feat for optimization reasons, but the fluff about "You were found in the wilds as a child, bearing a mark of the First World" is a good plot hook I could use to start my back story.

Also for min/maxing reasons, I'll be dumping wisdom to 7 or 8, though probably keeping intelligence at 10 or 12 for skill ranks. So her personality should be naive, but not stupid.

I haven't decided on traits for her, which could help with plot hooks. Top possibilities for mechanical reasons include Anatomist, Indomitable Faith, Birthmark, Valashmai Veteran, Dangerously Curious, Scholar of the Great Beyond, and Bully. But I don't know about doing too many that give skills as class skills, since paladins don't get enough skill ranks to train them all, even with 12 int.

I definitely want the character to be from Tian Xia, though I haven't decided which country. I'm also no expert on Asian names, so I could use some help in naming her, probably something Japanese, though Chinese might fit better for certain Tien nations.

Her primary weapon will be the katana, and she worships the goddess of swordplay, so I'm thinking that maybe she was raised somewhere relatively isolated, studying swordplay relentlessly, but lacks exposure to the outside world. This would work with the "young and naive" wisdom penalty. But where exactly? And why? Maybe because she was an abandoned child, so the government or a monastery raised her specifically to be a soldier or something? And how would her being a foundling and not knowing her genetic ancestry, while necessarily having an angel in that ancestry as an aasimar, work with worshiping a goddess who focuses on revering your ancestors?

As for why she traveled to the Inner Sea and joined the Pathfinder Society, I'm thinking maybe she was intentionally sent away to see the world and get some real life combat experience, to make her a better soldier. This would give an excuse for her to have the Valashmai Veteran trait, without having to be a native to that country. Focus on soldier training would explain the Anatomist trait.


Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

This still hasn't been answered, has it?

I have a similar question about the dwarven longhammer in the Advanced Race Guide, for the Fighter Foehammer archetype (also in the ARG) that revolves around hammers.

Getting official confirmation for PFS that the really obvious weapons are part of their obvious group would be nice. ie Anything with the word "hammer" in its name is in the hammer group, anything with "axe" in its name is in the axe group, anything with reach is in the polearm group, any armor used as a weapon (like the dwarven boulder helmet) is in the close group, etc.

Silver Crusade **

Majuba wrote:
The iconics tend to draw criticism, but then so does any character posted for public review. From what I've seen, they all work pretty darn well, most of the time. The L.7's suffer from frequent play in 7-11's, where they are at the very bottom of the power level curve. They do well in 5-9's. Except Harsk - he needs Deadly Aim badly.

Yeah, we had level 7 Valeros in subtier 5-6 of a 5-9 recently, and he did great.

Silver Crusade **

trollbill wrote:
So can you combine them to make Ghost Smelling Salts?

Would that give a perception bonus to smell a ghost coming?

Silver Crusade

Michael Smith 978 wrote:
Is there some bonus you get using your god's favorite weapon?

No mechanical bonus. I just like the RP.

There's a post on these forums somewhere from one of the top Paizo guys (I think James Jacobs, but I might be misremembering) about how divine characters really should stick to their deity's favored weapon, just like they really should stick to the same alignment as their deity. Anything else is technically wrong in how you worship your deity, though being "a little off" is acceptable, as long as they don't take it too far into true heresy.

I'm actually surprised paladins don't get proficiency with their deity's favored weapon by default. They probably just overlooked it, since they figured the paladin's martial weapon proficiency would cover everything. Shizuru and the one handed katana thing is the only exception I can think of offhand, though I can still use it two handed, which is my plan anyway.

Edit: Just thought of another deity with an exotic favored weapon: Calstria's whip, and CN alignment is eligible for anti-paladin worship.

Justin Sane wrote:

To pick up on a comment upthread, Greater Mercy vs Extra Lay on Hands isn't that linear concerning raw HP healed. The relative value of both feats fluctuates based on level and Charisma. (TL;DR: Higher Cha makes Greater Mercy better, higher level makes ELoH better)

It's worth noting there's good synergy in having both feats, however.

The key for me is that it's not just about total amount healed, though. It's about when you can use that healing. Lay on Hands is primarily used during fights, especially if you have a wand of Cure Light Wounds for between fights, and really, every paladin should have one of those. So you're going to want more healing all at once when you use it, rather than some one round, and some the next round. That extra 1d6 in your first LoH of the fight could be what keeps you standing long enough to use LoH again the following round.

But yes, I agree that getting both is best. I just prioritize Greater Mercy higher than Extra Lay on Hands when deciding on order.

I'm even considering Greater Mercy at level 3 and waiting until level 5 for Power Attack. At low levels, the ability to hit has a bigger impact on damage dealt than your damage bonus, so PA isn't worth using. I never take it before level 3 on any PC, unless it's a prereq for something else. But having it at level 3 and 4 vs extra healing from my LoH is a tough call. I'm leaning towards PA first, but I could see going either way with that.

Silver Crusade **

Andreas Forster wrote:

There's actually no reason for the clerks to ask the PCs to leave their weapons anywhere. For all they know, the PCs are going to sit around in the waiting room with doors locked, then deliver some parcel, and leave.

I wouldn't say having weapons will make the scenario easier, there are still a lot of social/sneaky rolls to be made. A big weapon would actually make it more difficult to impersonate a servant or party guest.

You think a big weapon stands out in a crowd? Trying sneaking through the party with an elephant.

I kid you not. One party I GM had a druid with an elephant companion animal. He was only medium sized, because he was still a baby. They brought streamers and stuff to dress him up, and paraded him through like part of the entertainment. I had to cave to the rule of cool, and they made the bluff checks, so it worked.

Silver Crusade

I love how you trimmed my line about "their code shouldn't be a limitation on anyone else in the party, unless the party members want to do blatantly evil things" when quoting me, then gave the blatantly evil example of cold blooded murder as something a paladin wouldn't let their party do.

Newsflash: No character with a good alignment would allow cold blooded murder without their alignment shifting to neutral (at least). That has nothing to do with being a paladin or following a code of conduct. That's just a matter of being a sane and normal member of society.

When I talk about their code not limiting their party, I'm not talking about blatantly evil acts, and I specifically said so in that post. I'm responding to things like your comment earlier in this thread:

Demoyn wrote:

So you've NEVER had a rogue, or a sorcerer with bluff, or a barbarian that uses intimidate (torture) as a means to extract information from prisoners, or a diviner that figures out the enemy before you have the proof to break into his house, or..... any NUMBER of other prototypical character concepts that don't mesh with a paladin's code? Congratulations. You have an atypical gaming group. That makes your statement completely unhelpful for a vast majority of gaming groups, and downright offensive for a PFS discussion.

And I notice you're still the only one in this thread who seems to have a problem with paladin personalities and codes of conduct, yet you call the rest of us atypical.

Silver Crusade **

trollbill wrote:
PrinceRaven wrote:
Seriously, if the tengu were stopped, would there be this same rush for tengu? No. No, there wouldn't.
I'd certainly be rushing to make one, I don't have a Tengu yet.
Agreed. The only reason I am going to Grandfather in a Tiefling is simply because I don't have one yet.

Yeah, I'm probably going to do that with an aasimar.

I didn't have an aasimar or a tiefling before the announcement. I already had an idea for a tiefling that I hadn't actually created yet, but I had already bought Blood of Fiends just for that. The announcement just got me to actually finish making him.

But I also had a paladin idea I've wanted to try out, and knowing that I won't have another chance to make an aasimar, and that they make such good paladins, and that the Blood of Angels PDF is on sale right now...

Silver Crusade

Well, your new build is similar to my cleric of Desna for PFS, so I can comment more on this one. I even have the same two domains - Luck and Travel are typical for this sort of thing.

I made mine a halfling, and use the halfling cleric favored class bonus to get another 1/2 use of Bit of Luck per day. So that's an extra use per day every two levels. I didn't dump dex like you (though I did dump str), so I started with cha and wis both at 16. The focus is more on buff spells than outright offense, so I don't need high wisdom as much.

I don't play this character much, so he's only level two, but it's nice to be able to pull out a support build once in a while when everyone else is playing damage dealers and doesn't need me to play one.

A word on role playing: Cleric of Desna with Luck and Travel domains is almost a bad stereotype at this point for support builds. The goddess is easily ignored, since her entire shtick is to follow your own dreams, so you don't have to do anything special to be a worshiper. You can just play it generic if you want. I highly recommend you don't.

Give your character a real personality and a good reason to follow Desna, and shock the other players by really playing it up. Break the stereotype! I even took the Good Dreams trait for mine. Here's an "in character" post by my leprechaun wannabe as an example of how I make him stand out and give him a real reason to follow Desna.

Silver Crusade **

rknop wrote:
Yeah, that'd be a great way to handle it. However, except for Mists of Mwangi having statblocks updated for Pathfinder (from 3.5), I'm not aware of any precedent for producing updated versions of old scenarios.

Yeah, and First Steps 2 and 3 would have been just as easy to update, if not easier. In part 3, simply take out the meeting with Grandmaster Torch, and have the party get the map in the initial mission briefing. Done!

Silver Crusade **

nosig wrote:

I really hope they DON't get rid of FS1.

It's nice to have another option for when we are starting up several new players - and an old hand wants to join it. Every additional possible scenario increasing the options of what to play is good (IMHO).

With all the changes to the factions, how could they possibly keep it?

I like it, too, but it's an unfortunate side effect of introducing all the faction heads in the First Step series, just like losing parts 2 and 3 last year, which I also liked.

Silver Crusade

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Demoyn wrote:
I don't want to turn this into a huge religious or political discussion, but I have to disagree. Building your paladin to be easily misled is just basing your character in reality. People that blindly follow codes (religious and political zealots) are, by their very definition, lacking in wisdom.

You obviously have no idea what a paladin is, or what a code of conduct is. Following a code isn't the same as blindly following a code. A paladin understands their code of conduct, chooses it because they agree with it, and sees it as a way of life, not a limitation.

Let me put it to you this way: Have you ever committed murder? Why not? Because you were afraid of getting caught, or because it's not something you'd ever genuinely want to do? That's how a paladin feels about their code of conduct.

It's not a limitation, and they don't follow it because they have to. Following it is just who they are. And most of them are smart enough to realize that other people don't feel the same way, and won't follow the same code. They aren't required to stop their party members from violating their code, even when they do know that it's happening, so their code shouldn't be a limitation on anyone else in the party, unless the party members want to do blatantly evil things.

I still recommend you read the links I provided in my earlier post. There are some good discussions there, dispelling the myth of the "lawful stupid" paladin. There are also some good paladin behavior threads here on the forums you might want to read, some with really great examples of well played paladins.

And as for your earlier post saying that the "lawful stupid" stereotype comes from somewhere. You're right. It does come from somewhere. It comes from a lot of people like you misunderstanding the class over the years, which is why discussions about this sort of thing are so common.

Demoyn wrote:
Tanking wisdom on a paladin does lower your will save, but it doesn't TANK your will save. From the moment you hit level 2 you'll still have a higher will save than any other martial class in the game (except POSSIBLY a ranger, who you'll surpass again a few levels later). Even if the paladin DOES get controlled, he's the least likely to cause party deaths because he can't use his signature ability against good and neutral characters (ie your party).

This part I actually agree with you about. As posted above, I'm planning to dump wisdom on my paladin. I'll still have +4 Will at level 2, which is better than most martial PCs. I may miss out on surprise rounds sometimes, but I accept that as a consequence of my decision.

Silver Crusade

Lemmy wrote:
Neal Litherland wrote:


If you take the Bodyguard Feat you can do it several times by sacrificing your AOO, and then you still get your turn. If you're looking for biggest number of bangs, I'd say that's probably a way to do it.

This particular build focused only on making it as big as possible.

That's... okay, I guess. However, even ignoring the fact that characters are not usually adjacent to each other, it's still a pretty underwhelming feat.

You need a good bonus on AA for Bodyguard to be truly useful, but as I said, it takes too much effort and too many resources that could have been put to better use. I still would never spend money on AA-boosting gear, especially if it takes an item slot or makes my weapon exponentially more expensive.

I'm sure AA can be useful in combat from time to time... But unless you're going for some gimmicky build, investing in Aid Another seems like a really bad idea for me. Almost as bad as investing on crossbows.

Out of combat, Aid Another is okay, since it's basically a free bonus to skill checks, but I'd still not put money and feats into it.

If you've already got a high dex character with Combat Reflexes, then you're rarely going to use all your AoOs per turn anyway. In that case, it might be worth investing a feat and making a point of standing next to your allies in battle to give them +2 AC regularly. It's not something I'd do on every character, but there are builds where it's nice, even if you don't focus on min/maxing Aid Another.

And remember, Aid Another can help with combat maneuvers, too. In one particular PFS scenario where the BBEG is known for being particularly deadly, our team grappler completely shut him down by grappling him, with the help of 3 or 4 other people using Aid Another to make sure the grapple succeeded and wouldn't be broken.

Silver Crusade **

Metredneck wrote:
I ended up having to "borrow" some clubs from the bedroom to beat down the animated chair as a two-weapon ranger

Do you have favored enemy: furniture?

Silver Crusade

So I'm also building a two handed weapon paladin right now, for PFS. Since it's a similar build to the original poster, I hope he won't mind if I post my build here instead of starting a new thread.

I min/max stats a little more than the OP, even going so far as probably going angelkin aasimar *hangs head in shame*. I know, I know - I feel a little cheesy doing it. But it does fit well, both mechanically and for fluff. Here's what I'm thinking for stats:

Str: 18 (10, +2 racial)
Dex: 10
Con: 14 (5)
Int: 12 (2)
Wis: 7 (-4)
Cha: 17 (7, +2 racial)

I figure I can boost cha to 18 at level 4, then focus on strength at 8 and 12, if I get that far.

My paladin will worship Shizuru, whose favored weapon is the katana, and I plan on sticking to that as my primary weapon. Katanas are only exotic if wielded one handed, so I can wield it two handed as a martial weapon, doing 1d8 with an 18-20 crit range. Not the most optimized weapon in the game, but close enough for me, and the fluff is perfect for a Tien worshiper of the goddess of swordfighting.

For feats, I'm thinking:

1 - Fey Foundling
3 - Power Attack
5 - Greater Mercy
7 - ???
9 - Improved Crit
11 - ???

Remember, PFS pretty much ends after level 11, so that's as far as I'm bothering to plan. Weapon Focus was also on my radar as a possibility at level 7, though I'll probably wait and see how often I'm missing at level 6 before making that call. I doubt if I'll feel the need for it. Extra Lay on Hands is a more likely possibility I'd consider.

I'm surprised to see everyone around here dismissing Greater Mercy. It's an extra d6 almost every time you Lay on Hands, with +2 from Fey Foundling when you use it on yourself. So every time I heal myself, it's an average of 5-6 more points healed (minimum 3). Given that I'll use a wand for Cure Light Wounds outside of combat, LoH will only be used during battle, when greater amounts of healing at once is more important than uses per day, which is why I prefer Greater Mercy ahead of Extra Lay on Hands.

I haven't decided on traits, either. I like skills, which is why I went with 12 int, and I'll definitely focus on Diplomacy the most, along with some ranks in Sense Motive and Knowledge (Religion). I'm looking at the alternate racial trait that gives +2 racial bonus on Sense Motive, so I should be able to overcome the wisdom penalty to be at least average at it. I'd consider taking traits to get Perception, Use Magic Device, and/or Knowledge (Planes) as class, though I don't know if any really fit the character for Perception, unfortunately. Or Anatomist, to get +1 to confirm crits.

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