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Roy Greenhilt

Fromper's page

FullStarFullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 4,884 posts (5,164 including aliases). 4 reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist. 16 Pathfinder Society characters.


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Silver Crusade

Seth Gipson wrote:
This thread is making me think of the example, I think in the CRB, of the Bard singing for Inspire Competence so the Rogue can Stealth better. :P

Or there's this one from the Order of the Stick.

Silver Crusade

pauljathome wrote:
Fromper wrote:

I can't think of any skill that can't have a masterwork tool, but I'd insist on the person who bought a generic one explaining to me what the tool is.

I've always strongly disliked that approach, unless you're willing to accept almost any answer.

The problem is that what one player thinks is cool and flavourful, another player is likely to think absurd or hackneyed. It has the very strong risk of becoming an exercise in "think like the GM or fail".

It doesn't help that I tend to NOT think like the GM in many, many cases (older, not in tune with current pop culture, etc).

I'm definitely in the "accept almost any answer" camp. The point is to prevent "I use my masterwork tool" without any explanation. This is a game of creativity and imagination, so I'm going to force them to get creative.

And if they have a hard time coming up with something, I have no problem with the rest of the table (including myself) throwing out suggestions.

Silver Crusade

Agreed with the answers so far. Mostly just posting to point out that this should be in the general rules forum. Not only isn't this PFS specific, it isn't GM specific, either.

Silver Crusade

LazarX wrote:
Tanoshi wrote:

Hm, sounds like maybe I'll go for the nondescript "Masterwork Tools of Some Generic Variety" with a +2 competence bonus for the default price, and just bring up a description if the GM really insists on it.

Mostly just wanted to be sure the generic item rules would be fine for Peform: Dance in PFS play, I suppose!

They won't be. because not every skill can be generically "masterworked". You'd have a difficult time selling it to me.

I can't think of any skill that can't have a masterwork tool, but I'd insist on the person who bought a generic one explaining to me what the tool is.

Hmm wrote:

What I'd love is one that would allow me to sing better. Any ideas for that?


Tuning forks, maybe?

The key here is remembering that the skill is "Perform: Sing", not just "Sing". You're trying to improve the performance, not necessarily your singing voice, if the goal is to improve your day job roll.

I'm thinking a masterwork backup band to make your performances sound better might cost more than 50 gp, and require splitting the profit.

Costumes and other props could make your performance look better, so it'll be a better performance, even if the singing itself isn't improved.

Or paying someone 50 gp to write better songs for you to sing than the ones you already know.

Silver Crusade

trollbill wrote:

Masterwork Tutu

For some reason, this brought to mind a mental image of a big, ugly, male half-orc barbarian in tutu. Wielding a big axe, of course.

Silver Crusade **

LazarX wrote:
Fromper wrote:
What's wrong with using an improvised weapon? Just take the Catch Off Guard feat, follow it up with Weapon Focus: Scissors, and you're all set! I would stick to one material per pair of scissors, though.
Nothing at all. but the man wants to enchant his weapon, and you can't do that if it's improvised.

Why not? Pay the extra 300 to get a pair of scissors made sturdy enough to use as a weapon (aka masterwork weapon cost), and then pay 2000 to enchant them as a +1 weapon.

I just checked, and not only doesn't it say that only traditional "weapons" can be enchanted, but the exception of shields being able to be enchanted as both a weapon and as an armor type shows that weapon enchantment can be done on things not primarily designed as weapons.

Silver Crusade **

What's wrong with using an improvised weapon? Just take the Catch Off Guard feat, follow it up with Weapon Focus: Scissors, and you're all set! I would stick to one material per pair of scissors, though.

Silver Crusade **

If basic, non-magical scissors are listed in some book somewhere as legal to buy, then I see no reason why making them masterwork and enchanting them as a weapon couldn't be done.

I'm assuming that's how Amara Li got hers.

Silver Crusade **

Brian D. Mooney wrote:

There are two events this Saturday in Northern Indiana!

Game con in South Bend,


Galacticon in Valparaiso,

Come on out to one or both!

Bad timing. I can't make it this weekend. But I'll continue to keep an eye out for other upcoming weekend events.

Silver Crusade

So last night, they started raiding the clock tower.

Despite a good stealth roll by the Scarecrow, the ranger still spotted him with a high perception roll (they tied at 31). So they didn't get surprised by the golem. I rolled awful for his attacks the first couple of rounds, so I kept missing, but then I got two hits against the cavalier in the same round, scaring the heck out of them with over 50 points of damage at once. The cavalier then hit back with a crit and a regular hit while power attacking and otherwise buffed, doing over 60 damage in one round to knock him down (he'd already taken over 40 HP damage before that). So it was an easier fight than I'd have liked, but the massive damage in one round was enough to scare them and make them glad he went down before getting to attack again.

They started climbing the stairs, and broke them by bunching up too much on their way up. The oracle fell 20 feet. Nobody in the group has knowledge: engineering, but I gave them an intelligence check to realize that spreading out might be safer when climbing up the fragile stairs. So they spaced themselves out at 15 foot intervals the rest of the way, with the badger using her climb speed to follow on the wall instead of using the stairs at all.

I rolled randomly for the falling bell, and it just happened to smack the two squishiest party members (the sorceress and the ranger's badger companion). Luckily, they both made their reflex saves to avoid falling 60 feet, on top of the direct damage from getting hit by the bell. Either of them actually taking that fall damage almost certainly would have gone down to negatives.

They reached the bells and the fight with the faceless stalkers was relatively easy. That's where we stopped for the night, since it was getting late.

Per her tactics, Xanesha was invisible and watching the fight against the faceless stalkers. I should have made a mental note of that in advance, and made notes of party tactics in that fight and how she'd react to them, because now I'm trying to remember the next day, and my memory's a little fuzzy on some of the details.

Based on watching that fight, I think she'd consider the oracle and ranger the biggest threats, which is ironic, since the oracle is usually the least directly threatening in most fights. The oracle flew, used a successful Command spell to make one faceless stalker lose a turn and drop prone, pulled out his morningstar to hit one of the stalkers once, and healed the paladin after the fight (since he was the front liner that got damaged). The ranger hit with a lot of arrows and deadly aim, knocking one faceless stalker down in the first round before he'd had a chance to act. Xanesha also saw the paladin take some shots and get a hit or two in, but he rolled low for damage, so she wouldn't consider him a top priority target. She saw the sorceress use Magic Missile, but I don't remember what else. Being a squishy looking spellcaster, she'd probably be third target. Because the fight was in a tight space of the stairs, and the cavalier and badger are melee types, they didn't get close enough to help, other than the cav using Lion's Call to buff the others.

So in Xanesha's mind, the oracle is an effective spellcaster, and the healer who can keep the others in a fight, while the ranger is the heavy damage dealer, if allowed to fire lots of arrows, so they're the highest priority to kill first. After that, go for the sorceress, then the others. Since the ranger and paladin are NPCs now (they started as PCs before the players left the group), I would prefer to kill them before the others for reasons of metagaming and being a nice GM, but Xanesha's too smart not to use intelligent tactics.

Silver Crusade **

Played this last night. Is it just me, or is this pretty brutal if someone falls through the grate and combines combat encounters?

We had 3 tables of this scenario at our store. The high tier table was still in combat when I left, so I don't know how that turned out, but knowing some of those players and their well built PCs, I'm assuming they're fine.

There was one table with 6 level 1 PCs, including at least 2 very experienced players and 1 complete newbie - not sure about the others. They TPKed.

At my table, we had 6 players at low tier, also, but 2 of us were level 2, while the rest were level 1. One was a summoner, so we had a level 1 eidolon as a 7th party member.

We went straight to the harbor once we got the name of the ship, but the harbor master couldn't find a record of the At Sea coming in, so we tried to ask around in the vicinity of the docks. That didn't go well, either, so we went back to Lady Darchana, but it felt like we were reporting to her too soon, since the situation wasn't resolved yet. But as it turned out, that's what we were supposed to do, and she filled us in on the ship's fake name.

Once we got to the ship and started combat, it was rough. Someone fell through the grate to set off the second combat below deck at the same time we were fighting the guys up top. The eidolon was "killed" (banished for the day), and 3 of the 6 of us were knocked unconscious, including my bard, who was the closest thing our group had to healer. Luckily, they managed to finish off the enemies top side and pour a potion of CLW down my throat. I pulled out my CLW wand and woke the other bleeding PC above deck, while the others were rushing down to help the unconscious, but stable, PC below deck. In the end, we won with no permanent deaths, but it was close.

I am curious to read this one and get some of the story details I may have missed in the noisy store, but that probably won't happen until I get a chance to GM it, which probably won't be any time soon. After running 3 full tables of this scenario last night, we won't run it again at that store for another 6 months, at least, and I don't think I'll be doing any conventions any time soon.

Also, besides freeing the slaves on the ship, my ex-slave character in Liberty's Edge insisted on buying and freeing the original handmaiden slave who had been the cause of the whole thing (I forget her name now). From the GMs reaction, I'm guessing it doesn't take that possibility into account in the scenario. Given the bad associations with that slave, he decided that the Lady would be willing to sell that slave, and he charged us 100 gp, which most of the PCs in the group were willing to split.

Silver Crusade **

Reviving this thread with something from last night's session:

You know you're in trouble when you get to the table and ...

... an archer bard is the party's best tank AND the party's best healer.

Yeah. My bard was level 2 in a mostly level 1 group. Because of my +1 chain shirt and 18 dex, I tied for best armor class in the party, and my level 2 HP were also just about the best. I think the only other level 2 may have had me beat on HP, but I'm not sure, and there was a level 1 barbarian who came close to our HP while raging.

And I was the only one in the group who could use a wand of CLW, though we had a couple of them among us. I started to get worried when I hit -4 HP, and the fight wasn't going well for the rest of the group, either. By the time someone got to me with a CLW potion to get me back on my feet, two other party members were down in negatives, too. I played healer one round at a time with the wand while the next wave of enemies attacked, with no break to stop and heal in between.

Silver Crusade **

Another vote for Black Waters.

Silver Crusade **

Auke Teeninga wrote:
Fromper wrote:
Dhjika wrote:
Fromper wrote:

and a summoning focused cleric who really likes Lightning Elementals.

I was not aware that lightning elementals were legal summons

The list for the Summon Monster spells just says Elemental (Size) at each level that allows summoning them. The caster chooses the type.

I just double checked, and the Additional Resources doesn't specifically say what's legal/illegal for summoning, so I'd assume that it's dictated by the spell description. The Bestiary entries in Additional Resources should probably make a note of that, as they do with druid wild shaping and other polymorphs.

it's illegal.

Only clerics of specific deties get to add summons for 'free' if the player owns the book.

There are some feats that add possible summons to the list as well.

If that 3 year old post is still true, then it really needs to be in an FAQ and/or the Additional Resources. This isn't the first time I've seen elementals other than those in the original Bestiary in PFS sessions. I've never had any reason to think it wasn't allowed.

So what book(s) are you talking about that add additional possible summons?

Silver Crusade

666bender wrote:
Tik, Brevick's Quasit Familiar wrote:
"That's why it helps to have Invisibility as an at will spell-like ability!"


other than an imp (i am a good character) what options offer that & hands for UMD?

Faerie Dragons are chaotic good, can cast Greater Invisibility on themselves 3 times per day, and use wands like a sorcerer, without UMD. Of course, if you want to hand it a Cure wand, you're back to UMD, but that's no worse than most other familiars.

Silver Crusade **

Yeah, best to not run this for a group of completely new level 1s. Maybe run them through First Steps 1 and/or The Confirmation first, so they can get some better equipment than just the 150 starting gp can buy.

Silver Crusade **

LazarX wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

[, which slows your ability to purchase more powerful items.

(I will now be interrupted by an even older codger, who will say that there used to be TWO faction missions per adventure, so half the party would do that and then leave before killing the bad guy)

And we walked uphill to the Grand Lodge! Both ways!

In the snow!

Silver Crusade

Well, they get a constitution penalty, so be sure to pump that up in the initial build. I'm assuming you're using the Advanced Race Guide? They have an alternate racial trait that gives +4 stealth, so you'll definitely want that.

As for a ranged ninja, I can't really help you there. Sneak attacks are the main source of damage for rogues and ninjas, and they're notoriously tough to get at range. The most obvious routes are probably really high initiative (high dex, Improved Initiative, Reactionary trait) and Vanishing Trick, so you can routinely attack from invisibility. But other than that, I don't know what to recommend.

Silver Crusade **

That's good to know. I knew you could get credit for more level 1s from re-GMing, but I wasn't sure about a level 2 for both playing and GMing. I'm assuming the same applies to The Confirmation, right?

Silver Crusade **

Yeah, playing against type is less painful now than it used to be.

Personally, I have four characters with LG alignment (of 16 total in PFS, plus one in the planning stages). Three of the four are Silver Crusade, but one is Liberty's Edge. If we occasionally still do the older faction missions, he'll occasionally be asked to assassinate someone without a trial, and if he's sure they're truly evil, he'll probably do it. He's LG, but not a paladin.

I also have a chaotic good character in the Silver Crusade, also playing against type. He's a gnome prankster bard, with a day job of Perform: Comedy (+18 at level 4). He heard that the Silver Crusade wants to make the world a better place, so he jumped in. Of course, his idea of making the world better has more to do with spreading laughter than smiting evil.

Sometimes it's fun to play against type.

Silver Crusade **

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I can't say I've ever had too much gold on any character. There's always something I still want to buy.

For most of my PCs, I intentionally save up my prestige until I have the 21 for body extraction and raise dead, other than spending the first two on a cure wand.

But I decided that I'd intentionally play one particular character more recklessly, and I've been spending his prestige after every adventure. At level 4, I'm having a hard time coming up with more stuff for him to spend it on. I've used it on wands of Cure Light, Infernal Healing, Protection from Evil, oil of Daylight, potion of Fly, scrolls of various situational spells that could be useful (Comprehend Languages, Air Bubble, etc). I finally decided to save up the 5 prestige for body retrieval, since that can't be paid for in cash, and he's up to the level where he could probably afford a Raise Dead if it came up (possibly relying on other party members to chip in a little).

Silver Crusade **

Dhjika wrote:
Fromper wrote:

and a summoning focused cleric who really likes Lightning Elementals.

I was not aware that lightning elementals were legal summons

The list for the Summon Monster spells just says Elemental (Size) at each level that allows summoning them. The caster chooses the type.

I just double checked, and the Additional Resources doesn't specifically say what's legal/illegal for summoning, so I'd assume that it's dictated by the spell description. The Bestiary entries in Additional Resources should probably make a note of that, as they do with druid wild shaping and other polymorphs.

Silver Crusade **

Finlanderboy wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
Pregens should be banned from tier 7-11. That's all. No other restrictions other than the ones in place. Even more specifically, maybe it's more accurate to say I think tier 7-8 is fine for them, but not 10-11. So maybe just subtier 10-11. Because that is not remotely fair to the players putting their 10-11 real PCs on the line.

I do not get this.

If you are in 10-11. THE average party level is above 9.5. A pregen dragging this average down means the others are on the higher end. The extra people should help not hurt.

I know If played a 10-11 with four 11s, I would not send away a pregen due to them hurting us.

Does the level 7 pregen really make up for the additional difficulty of losing the 4 player adjustment in subtier 10-11?

I'll agree that pregens at 10-11 or higher probably shouldn't be allowed. I don't have a problem with pregens in the appropriate subtiers.

Silver Crusade

I don't like the idea of removing the letter altogether. The hints about the overall plot help tie everything together.

I'm assuming that once they kill Xanesha and find the letter (assuming they do kill her - this isn't the most optimized group, so she could be too much for them), they'll think they have enough direct evidence to go to the Magnimar authorities and tell them about everything.

If the Lord-Mayor sees the note and says that he's just gotten word from Turtleback Ferry and Fort Raddick, and everything is normal, then maybe they won't have the sense of urgency to leave immediately. They'll probably still want to leave right after leveling up, selling their loot, and gearing up.

Maybe I'll edit the letter to take out the references to specific locations, so they don't know where to go to follow up on the letter, but still get lots of plot info. I could just take out the reference to Turtleback Ferry, and change "Fort Raddick" to "the fort" in the letter, so they'll be worried about a fort, but have no idea what fort. A month later, when the mayor receives word that Turtleback Ferry has lost contact with Fort Raddick, they'll jump on it.

Silver Crusade

I really haven't been keeping this thread up to date. We've done almost all of Skinsaw Murders since the last time I updated here.

They didn't kill Malfeshnekor. He kicked their butts, but they (just barely) all got out alive. They realized he was magically bound to that room, so they just closed the secret doors in the hopes the goblins would never find him, and decided they'd come back and deal with him later.

They spent a few weeks in Sandpoint training their horses for combat and training themselves (leveling up) before the sheriff asked for their help investigating the murders. They realized things were tied to Foxglove Manor after their visit to the Sanitorium (where they did NOT meet or fight the necromancer in the basement), and wanted to head there, but were interrupted by the talk of walking scarecrows. So they investigated that, killed a couple of ghouls, and continued on to Foxglove Manor.

They also guessed that the strange occurrences of the sorceress losing possessions, and the notes turning up addressed to her, were probably from Aldern. Also, the group oracle picked up ghoul fever from one of the ghouls they fought in the farmlands.

In the Manor, they thoroughly searched upstairs, setting off lots of haunts to get back stories, and the sorceress picked up Vorel's Phage from one of the haunts. Following Aldern's undead bride downstairs, the cavalier picked up ghoul fever from one of the ghouls in the sub-basement. They watched the two lead undead duke it out, then helped them finish each other off. They picked up on the hints that Vorel had been trying to become a lich, and that Aldern had contacts worth investigating in Magnimar, but consecrating the manor to make it safe from Vorel's haunts never crossed their minds.

So they used an Animal Messenger spell to send a note to Sheriff Hemlock, then headed directly to Magnimar without even returning to Sandpoint. Along the way, they realized that three party members were sick.

In Magnimar, they went to the cavalier's family home. He was born and raised there, from a minor noble family, so we all figured they'd have a big enough home for visitors to stay with them. They stocked up on anti-disease supplies (anti-plague, healer's kit), but didn't slow down the investigation at all. The paladin is just preparing Lesser Restoration as his only spells every day to mitigate the effects of the diseases, but they all still have them.

At Foxglove's townhouse, they killed the faceless stalkers, then found the secret compartment and book with the hint about the Seven's Sawmill. They asked around among Foxglove's neighbors, who didn't really know him, but told them about the series of murders in the city. They went to the city guard and told them about Aldern and Foxglove Manor. The city government didn't want the amateurs interfering with their investigation into the murders within the city, since it was obvious that they weren't all done by Aldern, but they did get confirmation of the victims have the Sihedron rune carved into them like Aldern's victims, so they knew they're related.

So they finally got the sawmill and staked it out for a bit, rather than going right in. I had one of the cultists walk in from outside during the stakeout, and the paladin detected that he was evil. I also had them see Ironbriar on the roof sending a raven north, but he was too far to detect evil on. Ironbriar's high perception paid off for him, and he noticed the paladin in full plate trying to be stealthy. He called all the cultists up from the basement, and the paladin got one more detect evil off on one of them while they were coming up the stairs and heading around the building.

Realizing the place was loaded with evil, they decided to just go in guns blazing. The cultists knew they were coming, so they fought their way through all of them, eventually facing Ironbriar on the top floor. The cavalier made good use of combat maneuvers to trip then grapple Ironbriar, so it really wasn't much of a fight, though the Reaper's Mask's two Confusion spells per day made for some fun moments, with the ranger, his badger companion, and the paladin all getting confused.

They weren't sure if they should go to the authorities, but it occurred to them that if they stayed at the sawmill, more cultists might come home. Also, they realized that the ranger could prepare a Speak With Animals spell after resting for the night, and ask the carrier ravens what they knew. So they actually spent the night at the sawmill, taking shifts on guard and sleeping.

In the morning, they used their anti-plague and healer's kit, and everyone passed their fort saves on their diseases. That's two days in a row for the sorceress with Vorel's phage, and the first day for the oracle and cavalier with ghoul fever, so they all have to make one more day's fort save to be totally cured. Then, the ranger talked to the ravens and they found out that the ravens like flying to the tallest tower under the Irespan.

And that's pretty much where we left off - they'll head to the clock tower next time.

Silver Crusade

So the start of Hook Mountain Massacre talks about the Lord-Mayor of Magnimar being contacted from Turtleback Ferry that they haven't heard from Fort Raddick, and he sends the PCs to investigate. This is supposed to be in winter, at least a month or two after the events of the earlier chapters.

But the PCs should find the note at the end of Skinsaw Murders hinting that bad stuff's going down in Turtleback Ferry and Fort Raddick. Why would they wait to go investigate?

Silver Crusade

Agreed with The Skinsaw Murders (2nd book of Rise of the Runelords) and Feast of Ravenmoor. Black Waters is a good one, but shorter (PFS scenario).

Silver Crusade **

Fearspect wrote:
What about if you had multiple boons of the style posted above from different scenarios you played. Could you apply them all to the same newly generated character?

Yes, as confirmed by Mike Brock years ago. That takes me back - those boons ended up being my nagaji battle oracle, who has since gone from Lantern Lodge to Andoran to Liberty's Edge, and he's still only level 5. LOL

Sparky Spain wrote:

With regards to a "GM credit baby", here's my question:

Said credit baby had never been played, but has chronicles from July. You get the protege (or similar) boon now, in October, after the valid races have changed. Can you...

a) create an aasimar with the protege boon without needing a race boon?
b) create a nagaji (*) with the protege boon without needing a race boon?
c) none of the above

(*) assuming nagaji doesn't need a race boon in season 6. PFS leadership has said they don't need one, but Additional Resources says otherwise.

PFS management has made it clear that only PCs played or designated on a GM credit to be aasimar or tiefling before the cutoff are grandfathered in. You can't rebuild another PC into one of those races if it wasn't already a member of those races before the deadline in mid-August.

Per the Guide to Organized Play, you can make a nagaji without a boon now. Additional Resources is always a little behind on getting updated, so treat the Guide as king.

Silver Crusade **

trollbill wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
Playing with them? Yeah, sure. But sitting with them sucks.
I've never had a problem with it. Even when we had an inexperienced player running a pregen ninja with us in Bonekeep. Sure, sometimes they suck at being effective, but I've played with non-pregens that have that problem too. Fortunately, PFS is usually forgiving enough you can still succeed with an ineffective PC in the group.

Agreed. I've never had any bigger problems with an inexperienced player with a pregen than I would have with the same player using their own PC. And experienced players know how to choose and play the better pregens in a way that truly helps the party more than it hurts.

Silver Crusade **

1 person marked this as a favorite.

The FAQ forgets to mention that you can only do this if you rename your dead pregen to Doorknob McDeadGuy.

Silver Crusade **

Soluzar wrote:
I don't know. Brock's example was in a town that was pretty much occupied behind enemy lines. Kaer Maga is basically like the Wild West when it comes to law and order.

Which is exactly why the "hired guards" of the local "boss" are appropriate for fitting that role. In this case, those guards happen to be golems.

Silver Crusade **

Victor Zajic wrote:
In an organized play game like PFS, there are going to be some sacrifices that the players have to make in order to be able to play their characters at any official event under any GM. If this isn't something that works for you, you should probably avoid PFS, because restricted race options are just the tip of the iceberg. PFS isn't for everyone, a lot of people really don't enjoy loosing the freedom that you get in a dedicated home game.

While I mostly agree, your wording about restricted races being "just the tip of the iceberg" seems to imply that there are a lot of bigger things that aren't allowed elsewhere. I disagree.

Race restrictions are the biggest area where things aren't allowed in PFS. Other than that, there are a few class archetypes, feats, spells, items, etc that aren't allowed here and there, but things are mostly pretty open. Races are the only area where a large chunk of primary content is forbidden.

Silver Crusade

Well, you're lacking in divine casting.

Is the ranger going to be a front liner or an archer type? If he's not front lining, then the samurai could get lonely holding the front line by himself.

A front line divine type seems like the obvious choice, such as a paladin, cleric, or warpriest. If you don't need front line so much, then any divine caster would do well.

Or you could just be a bard. I always like bards. Every group can always use the extra buffing, and if the GM lets you get wands easily, then you can serve a semi-healing roll with wands of Cure Light.

Silver Crusade

You know, I always thought of this as a single target spell before this thread. But you guys are right - it does affect an area. And I'd assume it affects all creatures in a square equally - even if there's a swarm of them.

Silver Crusade

I don't think Nualia or Orik were ever on Xanesha's radar. She wouldn't care about him. If Justice Ironbrar thinks Orik's particularly greedy, which he isn't, then he could be a candidate to be sacrificed by the Skinsaw Cult, but I just don't see it.

Lyrie, on the other hand, seems like someone Ironbrar might recruit. He probably wouldn't let her into the full cult right away, but I could see him using his position as a justice to get her out of jail if she agrees to work for him, then using her for some dirty work. She might even get some new spells out of the deal, if he shares the stolen wizard spellbook from his loot (see Ironbrar's chest in the Seven's Sawmill).

Silver Crusade

Kalshane's answer sounds good to me, based on my reading of the Core Rulebook.

The spellbook in the original question has these spells:

1 chill touch
1 enlarge person
1 grease
1 mage armor
1 magic missile
1 shocking grasp
2 cat’s grace
2 fox’s cunning
2 scorching ray
2 spider climb
2 web
3 blink
3 haste
3 lightning bolt
3 shrink item

That's 6 spells at level 1, 5 at level 2, and 4 at level 3. So the total sale value based on Kalshane's method, and factoring in the 7.5 gp for the spellbook itself, is 472.5. To make things easy in this adventure, since my group would just sell the spellbook, I might just say they find 500 gp in gems.

Silver Crusade **

Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Duncan7291 wrote:
Any chance Gm's that couldnt make it to Gencon could get a boon? :) I passed on Ifrit boon and too GM recharge instead this past weekend. (Already had Ifrit)
I took my ifrit boon (the 2nd one I've earned) and traded it for a sylph boon with someone in the boon trading thread. Don't ever turn down a boon. EVER!!!

Agreed. Even if you're not going to trade it away because there's nothing you want, you can give it away at a local game day or something. Somebody will appreciate it.

Silver Crusade **

I'm pretty sure there was a thread here on the forums (though don't ask me to find it) where Mike Brock confirmed that PCs are assumed to have homes. Thus, they can leave their excess baggage some place safe if they don't want to carry it on adventures.

Silver Crusade

So Justice Ironbrar has a wizard spellbook in his treasure. My party's only arcane caster is a sorceress, so nobody in the group can use it. I'm assuming someone else out there has done the math on how much they should be able to sell it for. Anyone want to save me the trouble and tell me what it's worth?

Silver Crusade **

So now that faction missions are optional, and I might be GMing this on Monday (backup GM, not sure if we'll have enough players for a second table), I'm wondering what opinions are on these faction missions.

I still use the factions if I think they're interesting or fun, and avoid the bad ones like the plague. In this case, there's a couple of decent bits, but for the most part, I don't think I like these enough to retain them.

Silver Crusade

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Here's my own method for building an effective character (which I've posted to these forums multiple times before). Bear in mind that this only refers to making a character who will be useful mechanically, and has no bearing whatsoever on the personality or back story.

1. Pick a specialty in combat.
2. Have something else you can do in combat when #1 isn't an option.
3. Pick a specialty out of combat.

Now make your character good at those 3 things. Aim for great in either #1 or #3 as your character's primary specialty. But never shoot for mega-awesome-best-in-the-world at anything, because that usually requires putting too many resources (stat points, feats, traits, money spent on equipment, etc) into one thing, and not leaving enough for the other two.

Don't try to have a 4th thing your PC can do well, because you'll spread yourself too thin. Occasionally you'll have a character build that just naturally has more things they're good at (bards and rogues tend to be good at multiple things outside of combat, for instance), so you can just go with it, but don't try too hard to be good at all of those things if they require any investment of resources.

Examples from my own PFS PCs:

1. Melee monster (obvious stuff like high strength, high con, Power Attack, rage powers for more melee power, etc).
2. Composite longbow and alchemist's fires
3. Diplomacy, believe it or not. I took a trait to make it a class skill, and kept it maxed out. I was rarely the main party face, but I was able to contribute in most conversations and aid another for the main face consistently.

Tattooed Fey Sorcerer
1. Enchantment spells, boosted by the bloodline's +2 bonus on compulsion spells, knowing some of those spells, and eventual Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus.
2. Evocation, boosted by the Varisian Tattoo, and I took Magic Missile from level 1, with more damage spells later. This way, I have offense against things without minds.
3. Social skills (obvious choice for a charisma based caster).

Gnome Prankster Bard
1. Debuff things with minds using intimidation, Mock bardic performance, and debuff spells.
2. Inspire Courage, Wand of Cure Light Wounds, crossbow. Coming up with what this guy can do in battle against mindless enemies was tougher than building most of my other characters. Still picking up the occasional spell here and there that will give me something else useful to do in battle against mindless foes.
3. Skill monkey, especially on face skills and bardic knowledge, but also has others.

Silver Crusade **

LazarX wrote:
Dorothy Lindman wrote:

I don't think it's a special exception to ask which fighter weapon group a weapon belongs to. There have always been weapons that weren't listed in the groups (halfling sling staff, fauchard, lucerne hammer, etc.), but no one has ever suggested that these weapons can't benefit from fighter's weapon training just because they were introduced after the CRB.
The problem is you're asking in the wrong place. The PFS section is not the place for asking for rule variation or clarification, that should be in the general Pathfinder Rules forum with a FAQ request so that it can be served appropriately.

As I mentioned in the first post in the thread, I think the wording in Ultimate Combat and Ultimate Equipment about "GMs may add other weapons to these groups" IS the official rules answer. That's why this is a PFS specific question. It's up to Mike Brock and John Compton, as the lead GMs for this campaign, to make that determination for weapons in PFS.

And until they do, I'll avoid making my character and potentially facing table variation. But I know I'm not the only one wondering about this. It's not exactly a critical question, so I don't expect this to be their top priority, but hopefully, it won't take too long for us to get some sort of response.

Thanks to everyone who clicked the FAQ button on the first post - that was the main point of the thread.

Silver Crusade

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It's actually much better now than it was earlier in the day.

Silver Crusade **

Yeah, but that doesn't say the squares inside the doors are traps, which is what I thought I remembered. It's vague enough that it could just be a trap on the doors themselves, which probably makes more sense, anyway.

Silver Crusade

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Is it just me, or has all of been extra slow today? I'm not noticing this problem on other web sites, so it doesn't seem to be my internet connection.

Silver Crusade **

I could have sworn there was something explicit, like an alarm spell on the doors or something. In fact, I thought even the discolored squares on the map inside the doors to the records room were trapped. But now I'm not seeing it in the actual adventure. Maybe I was just imagining it.

Silver Crusade **

As mentioned in the last post, I just re-read this adventure in preparation to run it again for the first time in over a year, and there's something that I'm not seeing.

I could have sworn there was some sort of alarm trap at the entrance to the records room, which summons the guards if the PCs try to leave that room through the doors instead of the vent. But now I don't see any explicit details in the scenario. What am I missing?

Silver Crusade **

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Mook: A generic,no name, low powered badguy that usually comes in identical sets of 3 or more.

Also known as minions, especially among 4e players.

Silver Crusade **

Sniggevert wrote:

Well, the specific weapon he's asking about could be considered either a polearm or a hammer. Personally, I'd call it a polearm, same with the dwarven longaxe, until I'd see something different calling it out.

That'd be the table variation he wants to avoid I'm sure.

Actually, no.

Weapons can be in more than one group. For instance, a dagger is in both light blade and thrown weapon, while unarmed strike is in both the monk and natural weapon groups. The fighter class description in the Core Rulebook even explicitly calls out how to handle the weapon training bonuses if you have bonuses in more than one group and use a weapon that's in both of them (use the higher bonus - they don't stack). I'd assume that the dwarven longhammer is in both the hammer and polearm groups, and the dwarven longaxe is in both the axe and polearm groups.

The table variation I'm worried about is stuff like this thread. Some people say that a weapon's groups not being covered by the rules is an oversight that should be dealt with using common sense, thus allowing the weapons to be considered part of the obvious groups. Others say that the lists of which weapons are in which group are absolute RAW, and any weapons not listed aren't part of any group by RAW, thus leading to my question #1.

Silver Crusade **

Finlanderboy wrote:

with the words "GMs may". It is up to mike brock. Per raw I would say weapons not mentioned are not in a group. If I am Dming a table aslong as it makes sense I will not rule against a player making an intelligent grouping.

Pretty much completely agreed, but that's why I started this thread to ask Mike Brock or John Compton to respond. Please click the FAQ button.

I actually want to make a character that revolves around one of these undefined weapons (Dwarven Foehammer Fighter wielding a Dwarven Longhammer), and I don't want to encounter table variation.

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