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Roy Greenhilt

Fromper's page

FullStarFullStarFullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 5,101 posts (5,389 including aliases). 4 reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist. 16 Pathfinder Society characters.


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Silver Crusade

For battlefield control, look mostly at the Conjuration spells.

Grease and Glitterdust are a great start. Depending on your group, the Summon Monster line could be good for extra cannon fodder/flankers. As an added bonus, Spell Focus: Conjuration works to both boost your save DCs and as a prerequisite for Augment Summoning.

You're going to want Mage Armor eventually. I like chuffster's recommendations for more control spells. I'd add Obscuring Mist, and stuff like Stinking Cloud, Sleet Storm, Aqueous Orb, and Black Tentacles when you reach higher levels.

Again, depending on your group, Haste could be the most powerful spell in the game once you can take 3rd level spells. If you've got 3 or more weapon focused damage dealers, you just gave them an extra attack per round at max BAB. If your party doesn't have that many weapon guys, then maybe stick to fireball first, for some extra direct damage.

Silver Crusade ***

I'm pretty sure I remember Aroden being LN, but don't ask me for a source on that. I'm just going from memory, and could be wrong.

Silver Crusade

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Imbicatus wrote:
Fromper wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:

Who needs Protection from Evil ?

; -))
I'm thinking there's a serious circumstance bonus from knowing that the world literally depends on you winning this fight.

I think that was Improved Iron Will. Roy had the charmed eyes, and then broke out of it. :)

Just looked again. Roy and Durkon are standing in some sort of magic circle in the room. I wonder if that boosts Will saves, to keep things honest in the Godsmoot.

Silver Crusade ***

Have:

Mendevian Weapon Training
Sinscarred
Niche Specialist
Elemental Blast
Treasure Map

Also, I have a spare kitsune boon. I used it to make a kitsune PC back before they were open to everyone, but I haven't actually played him yet. So now I can level 1 rebuild him into a kitsune without the boon attached. This is what happens when you have too many PCs and don't play much for two years or so. So if anyone has a use for a kitsune boon, I could trade that away, too.

Want:
Nothing in particular. Race boons are always cool, of course. Make me an offer.

If nobody responds with an interesting offer, I could maybe see myself using some of them, especially Sinscarred.

Silver Crusade

Yeah, we'd need to know what level and what the rest of the party is playing. And is your group uber-optimized, or more "normal" in power levels?

Silver Crusade ***

Why hasn't anyone recommended Black Waters yet? GREAT season 0 adventure, and the sequel for it was just published this week.

Silver Crusade

So how has everyone handled it when the group goes through the bug cave, finds the secret door, and eventually stumbles into Jorgenfist's basement?

There's no map for anything between the bug cave and the kobold barbarian's quarters, yet the adventure says it's a maze with lots of little encounters, with only the red caps being tough enough to be a real threat.

My group went in, and I had them encounter the red caps after being in there for an hour or so. I've told them that the cave seems to slope upwards sometimes, which makes sense, since they were significantly below Jorgenfist's ground level when they started, and they said they're following the maze in a general upward direction when possible.

I thought for sure they'd keep one of the red caps alive to interrogate, and I'd just have that one cut a deal to show them the way to the giants' underground "domain" in order to save its own life. But much to my surprise, they just went ahead and killed them all without taking a prisoner, for once.

They've got a ranger with good tracking skills (and underground as a favored terrain), so I figure they won't get too lost, but I'm wondering how to handle the maze down there before they get under Jorgenfist. I'll probably just hand wave it, but mention that they find a single pair of kobold tracks, which stand out for being unusual.

Silver Crusade ***

David Higaki wrote:

I've done it before when the choice of VC isn't important and I wanted to set something up for later.

** spoiler omitted **

Spoilers. You're doing it wrong.

Silver Crusade

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John Woodford wrote:
Drejk wrote:
I just started to wonder if the next strip will be from inside Durkon's head with Durkon cheering Roy and trying to distract the Durkula?
We still have to see some payoff for Durkon spending all that time showing his minder some of his history. Chekhov's Flashback, or something like that.

Remember that lesson Durkon learned as a kid about not stepping into help unless asked, and then Roy teaching him the opposite with regard to their party? I'm thinking Durkula's going to mix that up, and Durkon will somehow get a shot at helping, because the vamp lets its guard down.

Silver Crusade

The Raven Black wrote:

Who needs Protection from Evil ?

; -))

I'm thinking there's a serious circumstance bonus from knowing that the world literally depends on you winning this fight.

And I love how the gods are still talking amongst themselves, completely unaware of the fight.

Silver Crusade

Yes, the faerie dragon is only available from a boon from a season 4 adventure. And yes, it sucks when you play an adventure with the "wrong" character to get a boon.

But you can then turn around and GM that adventure later, and apply the chronicle to the correct PC, so you still have access to that boon. That's how I got this faerie dragon for my one and only character that has a familiar.

Silver Crusade

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Just a Mort wrote:
Hopefully you're half human, or fully human, use the human fcb to increase number of spells you know. Pick up glitterdust (2nd lv spell), summon monster series, haste (3rd lv spell). Those don't bother if foes are immune to mind affecting. Sorcerers have the weakness of having less versatility, but with a little tweaking of spell selection, you can still be fairly versatile.

Just in general, every character should always have a backup plan. When I make a character, I try to have a plan for three things:

1. What's my specialty in combat?
2. What's my backup plan for being useful in combat when I can't do my specialty?
3. What's my specialty out of combat?

For instance, in PFS, I have a fey bloodline sorcerer, so obviously that character is very good at enchantments. I made sure to pick up some blasting as a backup plan, starting with Magic Missile at level 1, so I always have something to do, even against mindless foes. And obviously, charisma based casters tend to be good at social skills, so that's my primary out of combat role.

Actually, it's my gnome prankster bard that has a bigger problem with mindless foes, since his whole shtick is insulting people (debuffing enemies through intimidation and the Mock bardic performance, along with enchantment spells). His backup plan to be useful in combat against mindless foes is Inspire Courage, Grease, and a wand of Cure Light Wounds. I've gotten to 5th level with this guy in PFS, and the only direct damage he's ever done to an enemy was hitting a skeleton with that CLW wand.

This is also why my barbarian has a composite longbow - that's the backup plan for when "be a melee monster" isn't a viable option in combat. It always amazes me how often I see melee characters that don't even own a ranged weapon.

But on the original topic, I agree with others who have suggested that having a conversation with the GM about the intended direction of the campaign, and your PC's role in it, would be a good idea.

Silver Crusade ***

Nefreet wrote:
In addition to atheism (little "a") I'll add indifference, pantheism and polytheism to the mix. I have a former pesh addict who tried going through Sarenrae's 17 step recovery program but found it too expensive, so she believes she's too poor to worship a god. On the other end my Vudrani invokes solely the Vudran pantheon (I think I have like 12 names written down on my sheet) and my Rogue worships whatever deity he thinks will benefit him at that moment (like that guy from the movie The Mummy).

My ex-slave archer bard routinely thanks Cayden Cailean for his freedom, Erastil for his archery skill, Shelyn for his performing skill, and Nethys for his his magical ability. Coincidentally, he's the only alignment that would let him be a worshiper of any of them. But he gets no mechanical advantage, so he's not a "worshiper", in game terms, of any of them.

I also have a barbarian who would be a perfect worshiper of Gorum. He loves a good fight and doesn't care which side he's on, other than being ultra loyal to his friends. But he intentionally rejected all the gods when he rejected his family upbringing - he comes from a long line of paladins, and caved under the pressure of following the family tradition. So Gorum probably considers him a favorite son, even though the barbarian himself has never said a prayer.

More closely related to the original topic, I actually have a friend who made it to level 14 with her paladin of Aroden before the rule change requiring paladins to worship a valid deity in PFS.

Silver Crusade

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Drejk wrote:
Now when the three directors were mentioned I recall that they didn't want the world to be destroyed... Will they make any move to that effect? Can they currently make any move that would prevent that?

I'm thinking they could take possession of V again, just long enough to deliver some information. ie Send the rest of the Order to back up Roy.

Silver Crusade

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Lord Fyre wrote:
Sebastian wrote:

I thought the wait for #1,000 was too much...

I NEED #1,001 RIGHT NOW!!!!

Life is pain.

Anyone who says differently is selling something.

Silver Crusade

Black Waters was a lot of fun. I should GM it again before doing this one.

Silver Crusade ***

I'm definitely still missing a session I played.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Aniuś the Talewise wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Aniuś the Talewise wrote:

I still wonder why the gods have to vote via the priests, when the comic has shown the gods communicating with each other directly several times?

Is it so that the priests can bear direct witness to the gods' discussion and vote?

Because if they didn't the PCs couldn't get involved? :)

There may be an in-world reason too, but that's the real one.

Actually, has the comic shown the different pantheons communicating directly? In recent history, post flashbacks to world creation or the Snarl or some such.

I don't know about between different pantheons but there are definitely panels of different northern gods talking to each other.

Yeah, but not all in one place. It's usually just 2 or 3 at a time together. Maybe this is their way of holding a meeting without having to physically get together - make their followers do the work on getting together physically.

Silver Crusade

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Andostre wrote:

Dang, the new art style is worth it just for that last panel alone!

I also like the detail that many of the high priests who voted against destroying the world are smiling that Roy is jumping down to confront Durkon. They've figured out what he's doing immediately. Specifically, Thor, Freya, Loki, the representative from the Western pantheon, and... Hel.

Hel herself isn't smiling at Roy. The gods can't see him.

But I do like that Durkula is smiling. He looks like he wants this fight, and was planning for it all along.

And I completely forgot that Durkula made minions before coming into the room. They should be along any time now.

Silver Crusade

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So moving on to predictions about what comes next...

On paper, this looks like a one sided fight. Roy's still down levels from having died, casters are more powerful than martials when you reach these high levels, and Durkula has vampire powers on top of Durkon's cleric levels. So in theory, team evil should win this easily.

So here's my prediction of how Roy not only wins, but relatively easily. Of course, the key word there is "relatively" - this still needs to be an epic fight on some level.

I'm not familiar with 3.5 rules, but I'm assuming "Summon Proxy" is a spell invented for OOTS, so we don't know the exact details of the spell. But it's safe to assume that it's a high enough level spell that Durkula won't have prepared it more than once for the day. And it probably requires concentration to maintain. That means that to keep Hel present for the Godsmoot, Durkula can't take any standard actions - he has to use them all concentrating on maintaining the spell.

So that's how Roy wins. He doesn't have to actually kill Durkula to save the world. He doesn't even have to wound him. He just has to trick/annoy him into fighting back, so the proxy disappears. Of course, Roy probably doesn't know this going in, so he might get some advice along the way, possibly from Thor's representative.

That's my guess anyway. We'll see how far off I am. :)

Silver Crusade

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WOW!!!!!

This one lived up to the hype.

And from a plot perspective, the clues were there. Hel confessing her plan didn't tell us anything that wasn't mentioned earlier, but none of us guessed it, because we just didn't put it all together. That's a well built mystery.

I just love Roy's reaction. He might be smart for a fighter, but he's not smarter than a goddess with a well conceived plan and a very wise undead high priest.

I also loved the dwarven priestess of Thor recognizing Durkon's name, and Roy's comment of "And when did he learn to pronounce the word 'of' anyway?!?" I'm still not sure if Roy's put it all together, as far as Durkula not just being Durkon with a new evil attitude.

And that final panel... I just have to say WOW!!! again.

And am I remembering correctly that Roy has something special on his sword these days for use against undead? Or was that a temporary spell? Given that his life long quest is to take down a lich, being prepared for undead should help him in fighting a vampire.

Silver Crusade ***

Hmm... I really should do something with my extra boons. I picked up 3 at GenCon, and I think I already had at least 2 or 3 from before (probably including last GenCon) that I haven't used. I'll have to look through them when I have time and offer them up here.

Silver Crusade

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GM Holden wrote:

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to be dismissive or insulting. I'm just searching for ideas to run these enemies in an intelligent and logical manner. My group has already questioned why none of the enemies they encounter ever raise any kind of alarm or respond to epic fights happening in adjacent rooms (examples include: Thistletop, the Graul homestead and Fort Rannick).

The meta game answer is because if the entire location becomes alert and the bad guys send everything in at the party (as they really should do), they would be dead. The group needs to face these challenges in isolation from one another. How to accomplish this without straining my groups already stretched suspension of belief is puzzling me.

My group didn't face these things in isolation. When they started their first fight inside Fort Rannick, on the ground floor (after sneaking in through the basement and using a Silence spell during the one fight there, so it didn't attract attention), all the other ogres inside the ground floor came running. It just took a few rounds to get there, so they were able to handle them a couple at a time pretty easily. This has happened in a few areas of the adventure path so far.

In some parts of the adventure, it specifically says that certain groups of baddies ignore disturbances outside their rooms for specific reasons. Other than that, you do have to remember that some of them live in noisy areas, so they might not recognize fighting noises for what they are, unless a bad guy intentionally raises an alarm. Think of it logically for each area, and don't be afraid to combine fights occasionally, but make sure it takes a couple of rounds of saying "What was that?" and deciding to come, along with traveling time, before the second group arrives to check things out.

Silver Crusade ***

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More often, the Grand Lodge is the "I don't want to bother with faction politics, so just put me in the default" faction. I know I have two PCs in the Grand Lodge for that reason. It's not loyalty to the Decemvirate so much as just wanting to be a Pathfinder and not bother with factions, which fits their personalities.

Silver Crusade ***

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I joined Shadow Lodge with my first PC because my first ever PFS game was playing First Steps 3, and Grandmaster Torch's speech about Pathfinders looking out for each other made sense to my barbarian. I had no idea about the back story behind the Shadow Lodge from the previous season. This was relatively early in season 3.

I think that's half the problem. The Shadow Lodge of the season 1 and 2 scenarios was completely different than how it was presented in seasons 3 and 4, so older PFS players viewed it completely differently than those of us who joined after it was already a faction.

Silver Crusade ***

UndeadMitch wrote:
I've played through level 8 with multiple characters, and hadn't realized that I hadn't applied the ability score increase until level nine.

I'm reminded of a friend of mine, who had a reputation as the rules lawyer of my old group. She knew the rules better than any of the rest of us. At one point, we were discussing our plans for leveling up our PCs, and she was talking about taking a feat at 6th level. I asked why she got a feat at that level, and she was very confused. It turns out this was one of those times that she got 3.5 and Pathfinder rules mixed up. She didn't know that in PF, you get feats every odd level instead of every 3rd, so she had never taken her 5th level feat on that PC.

Dhenn wrote:
I spent half a combat asleep before remembering I was an elf.

I had a friend who was notorious for trying to things to sleep that were immune, and he should have known better. Elves, undead, pretty much anything that's immune to sleep, he tried it. This was someone who knew better, and he'd just facepalm when his mistake was pointed out to him.

After a few of these, we were fighting a demon (I think) one time, and he actually stopped to ask "Are demons immune to sleep?" We tried knowledge checks, but nobody knew, and it's not something anyone knew off the top of our heads. He tried it, commenting "This is probably another wasted spell", but it actually worked, and let us finish off a very tough fight that we'd been losing up to that point.

Game Master wrote:
Blackbot wrote:

We were fighting with a bunch of chairs and I carelessly engaged in melee with my wizard. The chair grappled me and I tried escaping its grapple over multiple rounds - no use. I fell unconscious. I sigh and look down on my character sheet.

"MOTHERF***** - I forgot I can dimension door as a swift action!"

Afterwards we had to blow a lot of resources to sneak through a very busy area - although I even wrote down that I wanted to grab some uniforms from the wardrobe so we could disguise ourselves. Which I only remembered after we blew our scrolls and potions.

I LOVE that scenario. I GM'd it for a group that did not disguise themselves. Cue the summoner... carrying a massive, 7 foot-tall scythe... riding on the back of her medium-sized, armless centaur of an eidolon... striding through some curtains into the middle of a fancy dinner party.

We had to take a five-minute break for people to compose themselves before we could continue, after we pointed out how ridiculous she must have looked.

That's still one of my favorite scenarios. I GMed it a few times after playing it.

I once GMed that scenario with a druid who insisted on bringing her elephant companion with her. "It's just a baby", meaning it was medium sized. She decorated it with streamers and pretended to be part of the entertainment. I ruled that the elephant failed its check to fit in, but the rest of the group got a bonus from the distraction. I figure that's a good way to reward creativity.

Also, in the fight with the chairs, I once had a ranger joke, "Good thing I have favored enemy: furniture." LOL

Silver Crusade ***

I don't get the complaint of table tents taking up space on the table. If space is at a premium, I usually just put them on top of my character sheet, then shift them around as needed to get to the sheet.

Silver Crusade

I played this character over the weekend, and had fun overall.

Our first fight was outdoor in a large area, against several bad guys, so my spell selection was very useful. The best part was using Gusting Sphere to bull rush a gremlin off a rooftop, where it landed in the area of the Entangle spell I'd previously cast.

The down side was that after using my Entangle, Stone Call, and Gusting Sphere that early, I was already running low on offensive capability after just one fight. That's really the danger of being a pure caster at low levels.

In the easier fights, I used my wand of Cure Light on the front liners a lot, and didn't contribute much on offense. I did use Fog Cloud to force some archers to come closer where our melee guys could pound on them, so I helped that way. And I discovered the joy of summoning stirges with my remaining level 1 spells against the BBEG.

Also, we faced an enemy with Greater Invisibility, so I really wished I had more than one Faerie Fire scroll, and/or some way of knowing where to target it more reliably. Someone suggested that I should get a wand of that one, and I think I agree. I just haven't decided if it's worth the 750 gp to get immediately, when that's still a lot of money at my level.

I also realized that Stone Call has no saving throw and ignores SR, so it's one of the few offensive spells that's just as good as a scroll/wand. That might be my way to get more offense this early - just carry a couple of those scrolls, and save my level 2 spell slots for other things. The down side is the huge area of effect - it'll be hard to miss my allies, so this is pretty much only useful in very large battlefields.

I still need to look up some of the spells Taenia recommended. I don't even know what books they're in. I'll use the Archives of Nethys to figure it all out when I have some time.

Silver Crusade ***

FLite wrote:
Further it is a DC 10 linguistics check for a PC to recognize their own handwriting. (DC 20 to recognize your team mates handwriting.) And although linguistics usually needs to be trained, it can be used untrained to detect forgeries, and I would say identifying your own handwriting counts as detecting forgeries. So if anyone has linguistics in the group, they should figure it out pretty quick, and even if no one has linguistics, they should get it on a take ten if they didn't dump INT.

Our GM didn't bother with rolling for it, and just assumed that everyone would recognize their own handwriting. I think that makes sense, and the linguistics check should just be used if they want to examine it more closely to try and determine if they really wrote it and don't remember doing it, or if it's a forgery.

Silver Crusade ***

I have them for a couple of my PCs, and use them when I play those characters. But I haven't gotten around to making them for the other PCs.

Silver Crusade ***

Blazej wrote:


The answer is pretty clear to me, but I have read the adventure which makes it hard to not be biased. You can't say this wasn't tested with random strangers just because it is the nature of how many puzzles work. If your mind locks on the same train of thought it all goes well, but in many ways one can just get lost exploring other routes that don't lead to the answer. I do agree that based upon the comments, something with the puzzle doesn't work with a lot of groups.

As I said, our GM couldn't explain the puzzle to us. He read and GMed this adventure weeks ago for GenCon, then ran it again for us today, and he still doesn't understand the puzzle well enough to explain what we were missing. Even he thinks the only way to solve it is dumb luck.

And it's not even like that's the only jumbled mess in this adventure. Just look at all the posts in this thread about people not understanding the two hour limit to deal with the poison and traps in the early section.

Blazej wrote:
I'm curious about how the faerie dragon fight played out since the dragon is very set against using the wand and is prone to retreating even if you haven't done any damage to him depending on the status of the other fey on the field. While it could certainly kill a typical party with the wand, the tactics avoid that outcome.

Well, that explains how we survived. We all said afterwards we were lucky he didn't just blast us with scorching ray every round, or we'd have all died. We knew the dragon retreated once we killed/chased away all the gremlins, but that took a while. Two of them were easy, but two ended up on rooftops from the portals, and being level 3-4, no PCs could fly to get up there and chase them.

Besides, once the dragon knocked me from max HP to -3 in a single round, we treated him as the dominant threat and focused on trying to catch him, rather than pulling out bows to shoot at the gremlins that weren't an immediate threat. But he spent two rounds going invisible and used his breath weapon twice, so he only blasted us with scorching ray 3 or 4 times.

It was enough to make it a long, difficult battle. And the other table at our store, running the high sub-tier, finished that fight around the same time we did. So apparently, it's a pretty long fight at either sub-tier.

Blazej wrote:
I wouldn't tell you to run it, but I would suggest you don't absolutely refuse to GM it without having read it. I have been through horrific scenarios that I have hated, then read through them and understood how they came to play out and hated them less for that.

I've had similar situations. There are two adventures in particular I remember having awful experiences because of lousy GMs (actually, the same lousy GM twice), and when I checked here on the forums, I discovered the scenarios themselves got mostly rave reviews. Once I realized it wasn't the scenarios' fault, I was curious to learn more about what I missed from playing it in a bad situation.

That's why I came to this thread, to find out what I missed, and if the adventure might be better than my experience with it. But in this thread, I'm not seeing rave reviews or universal praise. I'm seeing universal complaints about the same parts of the adventure over and over, especially that puzzle.

Silver Crusade ***

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Linda Zayas-Palmer wrote:
Thank you for the feedback about the puzzle. John and I value your feedback, and will take it into account when making decisions in future scenarios.

I just played this. Our group mostly said that we like puzzles, if they're well done and solvable. Even after the session was over, we didn't understand the puzzle in this one. At all. I have no idea how anyone's supposed to solve this other than random guessing, and our GM couldn't explain it, either. The final clue is the only reason we knew to start on the second floor, but we still don't know how any of the previous clues were supposed to lead us to that.

I haven't read the scenario, as I was just a player, but this seems like an incredibly poorly designed puzzle. So don't take all the b&$**ing here as a sign that players don't like puzzles. Take it to mean that the puzzles need to be well edited and proof read to make sure they make sense to random strangers who weren't involved in designing them, because that obviously didn't happen with this scenario.

As for the combats, the first one in town is absolutely brutal at the lower tier. I think parties with Glitterdust will be fine, but our group didn't have an arcane caster. That faerie dragon with greater invisibility and a level 7 scorching ray wand could have killed us all if I hadn't thrown out an obscuring mist for us to hide in. And the only reason I was able to cast that is because the cleric healed me up after I got scorching rayed down from full HP to -3 in a single round.

Our group had a good time with each other. We didn't enjoy the scenario. I'll go so far as to say that this is now only the 2nd PFS scenario I've ever played that I absolutely refuse to ever GM, and I've played around half of them overall.

Silver Crusade

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alexd1976 wrote:
If Leadership is used properly, with GM and Player sitting down together and DISCUSSING the desired results, it can add a needed role to a group that may have been missing it.

This goes back to my earlier point. Rather than just giving players a banned list, it's best to have a discussion about expectations among everyone when you start the campaign. We're all adults. We can discuss things maturely and agree on stuff, rather than having arbitrary GM declarations.

Silver Crusade

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Rather than having a specific list, I think the best is to have a conversation with the players when you're starting the campaign, and have everyone agree on what kind of game you want. This should happen even before the GM sets the tone on what kind of campaign it is, thematically. Heck, this should probably happen even before you decide who's going to be the GM.

Silver Crusade ***

Actually, that's not the thread I was thinking of. I've never read that thread. But it seems to say pretty much the same thing.

Silver Crusade ***

So if you're ok with multiple rerolls when it gets split into multiple sessions, then what do you do if you're playing a module by sitting for 8-10 hours at once? That's just a single session.

You seem to be granting a bonus to players for splitting up the gaming time into multiple sessions, instead of playing the entire adventure at once.

I always took the "once per scenario" as meaning "once per adventure", even when playing modules.

Silver Crusade ***

Kalindlara wrote:

Regarding summons and "priests": my personal preferred ruling is that any divine caster can be a priest. I'll abide by an official ruling, though.

Don't ask me to dig up a reference right now, but I could swear someone at Paizo has posted in the past saying that "priest" is just a general term for any official member of the clergy. There's no class requirement there - even a fighter can be a priest, if that person is part of the official worship hierarchy of their god.

And just looking at the major 20 deities, I can think of a few examples where non-divine types would make sense as priests. Arcane casters as priests of Nethys, monks as priests of Irori, any martial class as a priest of Gorum, etc.

The question is how you make such a role playing position official in PFS, if it's not something that mechanically affects the PC.

Silver Crusade

Yeah, I really need to reread the rest of book 4. I read it months ago, and re-read the beginning parts of Jorgenfist, but haven't finished re-reading as far as Mokmurian's stats and spells again. Our group is just so slow that I end up re-read everything at least twice before they get to it.

So I forgot he used Sending. So he would already know that the raid failed, and might be planning a backup raid, though it'll take a while to plan and send. And you're right that he'll probably try Sending on the Longtooth illusion, and realize it's fake pretty quickly. I just have to decide how he'd react to that.

I told my PCs that they saw the rocs wandering around the valley once in a while. But they've been using Invisibility Sphere whenever they fly anywhere, so they've had an easy time going unnoticed. They just don't get too close to any of the giant camps.

Silver Crusade

So my party is being WAY overly cautious in approaching Jorgenfist.

After creaming the giants and dragon in Sandpoint, they intentionally raced to Jorgenfist faster than the raiding party could have made it back had they succeeeded, hoping that Mokmurian wouldn't have gotten word of the defeat yet. Teleporting to Fort Rannick saved at least a week of travel time, so they probably succeeded. There were giants who survived the Sandpoint raid, but the PCs captured them and made them promise not to go back to Mokmurian, and I figure they'll probably stick to that out of fear of both the PCs and Mokmurian's wrath. So would M have any way of knowing that the raid failed before the PCs get there?

They cleared the wyvern cave and looted the dragon cave, but they're been reluctant to go through the bug cave. They scouted it from outside already using fly and invisibility, so they know it's full of bugs, and don't want to have to mess with it. Because the other two didn't lead to any secret passages that will get them in, I think they've kinda given up on the bug cave having any, which is ironic, since that's the one that actually does.

So they were debating plans of attack, and as I said, they're being overly cautious. Since they beat up one hunting party of giants on their way to Jorgenfist, they were considering hanging out where they could ambush small groups like that regularly, trying to take out the whole giant army a few at a time over a period of weeks. This is a longer term strategy that obviously won't work. I figure after a couple of days of hunting parties not returning, the giants will get more cautious. Also, I'm thinking another whole tribe of giants could arrive at Jorgenfist, replacing those who were lost and being too many for the PCs to fight at once.

They also thought about using fly, silence, and invisibility sphere to sneak over the wall and get into the main tower. They're totally focused on that tower - they've seen the pit from a distance, but they're assuming it's just for waste disposal, and don't realize the complex has underground layers. So flying in invisibly to raid the tower seems to be their plan B right now, while taking out the army a little at a time or exploring the bug cave are plans C and D.

Plan A, as we left it at the end of yesterday's session, was to use illusions to pretend the dragon had returned from the raid and headed directly to his cave without going to see Mokmurian. They've got Major Image, so they could make it look like the dragon flew into the valley (from the wrong direction, since the range of the spell doesn't cover the whole width of the valley) and went straight to his cave. They're hoping this will lure Mokmurian to come to the dragon cave (where they're currently squatting to watch the giants from a distance), so they can ambush him on their terms.

I have to decide how M would respond to this.

The cave is 450 feet up a vertical cliff face, and Mokmurian can fly, while most of his underlings can't. And barring another method of knowing about what happened in Sandpoint (I'll have to double check his spellbook for divination possibilities, among other things), he would be waiting for the dragon and Teraktinus to get back and check in with him. So this plan actually has potential.

But I don't want to make it too easy for them by having M take the bait immediately. Maybe he'd assume if the dragon is back, then Teraktinus will be following shortly, so he's likely to wait a few hours or maybe even a full day, before sending someone to the dragon cave to see what's up. And he'd certainly send an underling instead of going himself. If the underling doesn't come back, then Mokmurian's smart enough to realize it's a trap, and the PCs could find themselves trapped in that cave with only one entrance/exit facing the giant army. But how would the giants reach them to attack en masse? Or would they just collapse the cave entrance by throwing boulders at it?

Lots of possibilities here. Any suggestions?

Silver Crusade ***

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Mazel Tov!

Silver Crusade ***

This reminds me of the old "Your alginment won't go to evil for doing an evil faction mission, but you may still fall as a paladin." Just because we can use [evil] spells without an alignment infraction, that doesn't make it ok for good PCs, especially paladins.

Edited to respond to Andrew's post, since he ninja'd me. While I agree that paladins shouldn't be doing it, I don't believe in insta-fall for anything but REALLY obvious evil (killing orphans, etc). A warning from their god and an Atonement would cover it.

Silver Crusade

I'll have to look those up. I've never even heard of a lot of them, so I'll have to figure out what books they're from. This is for PFS, so I have to own the book to use the spell. I have most of the earlier hard back books, and a few splat book, but I haven't bought many new books recently.

As I said, I've already got Gusting Sphere, along with Obscuring Mist and Fog Cloud as domain spells (Weather Domain).

I actually looked at the Liberation domain when I created the character, but I ruled it out. The movement abilities are great, but the domain spells are all very circumstancial. Given that I took a domain instead of an animal companion specifically to have more spells to cast per day, I really wanted spells that I'd be using constantly, rather than things that only come up in very specific situations. That domain just looks like it would be fantastic for a cleric who gets two domains, but it's not worth it as the only domain for a druid.

On the other hand, Weather isn't as good for a cleric. They'll frequently have other things to do regularly and not need the little first level blast, and other domains might have better spells for them. But for a casting focused druid who needed something to do every round at low levels without burning spells, that little blast is a pretty good filler ability. And the spells aren't half bad, especially for a sylph who can see through the cloud spells.

Silver Crusade

Situational buffs make great scrolls. Every caster I play has scrolls of Comprehend Languages. In this case, I've got low level stuff like Faerie Fire, Touch of the Sea, Air Bubble, etc as scrolls already. Don't have the PC in front of me, so I don't remember all of them off the top of my head.

I think your list of spell suggestions highlights my big problem right now. All your recommendations are level 3+ spells. I think the lower level druid control spells are more environment dependent, so there just aren't many that can be used in an urban setting.

I was kind of hoping that hitting level 3 meant that the character would start to become more useful, as pure casters tend to suck at low levels. But I may have to wait until level 5 for that to happen, or else stick to adventures that I know take place in outdoor settings.

Silver Crusade

My Self wrote:
I like your choice of OOTS avatar, by the way.

Thanks. I'm a huge OOTS fan. That's part of the reason I made my sylph character a female pacifist. Her name is Celia. She's not quite as dedicated a pacifist as Celia from OOTS, but she's at least partially modeled on that character.

Use Headbutt!! wrote:

aqueous orb is a personal favorite of mine (and if you fluff it as a giant raindrop I'd say it fits a sky druid) as far as non-lethal conjuration offensive spells go. Unfortunately you will not get it for another 2 levels.

maybe ray of sickening at early levels for at least something non-lethal?

Sorry to say, but I don't think you can go pure non-lethal on a non-combat oriented class this early on. Having produce flames as a back up ranged attack is going to be too helpful for you.

Summons sounds like your best bet if you personally don't want to get your hands dirty so I'd say so augment summons. Druids actually get enough conjuration spells to warrant it, such as snowball.

Yeah, I was already thinking Aqueous Orb will be great when I reach that level.

The spells don't have to be non-lethal, but I prefer to stick to that where possible. Like I mentioned earlier, Gusting Orb is pretty good for that, as is Entangle. But Entangle is location dependent. But stuff like Stone Call and Flaming Sphere seem like necessary backup plans for when I can't avoid doing lethal damage, along with having summoned critters who do real damage for me.

Taenia wrote:

Keep in mind that a low str does not preclue melee. With a good dex you can grab weapon finesse, piranha strike and an Agile AoMF and still do some damage, especially combined with spells like frostbite and produce flame.

If you want to have fun as a blaster grab spell pen, Sp Focus Evocation/Gr and use flaming spheres, call lightning, ball lightning, aggressive thundercloud and similar spells for consistent damage. Keep in mind that you can generally have two of these out in a turn, so its fun having a flaming sphere and aggressive thundercloud running around the board hitting for 3d6 each, each round.

This is definitely not a melee focused character. Partially due to the racial constitution penalty, I intentionally made the decision to dump strength, and go caster focused with this one to stay off the front line. Thus, the whole "hide in my clouds casting" approach.

I'll definitely do a little blasting later. After all, I get Call Lightning as a domain spell. And it fits as a priestess of Gozreh, God of Storms (among other things). But as I said, I don't want that to be my focus.

I'm more looking for battlefield control spells, like Entangle, Soften Earth and Stone, Expeditious Excavation, etc. But most of those are location dependent. I'm really hoping to find more stuff that I can do in any environment, but the down side of being a druid is that a lot of their stuff only works in natural settings, so I may have to stick to summoning and blasting in urban settings.

Silver Crusade ***

countchocula wrote:
I was hoping for 25 different types of cookies.. :(

There's only three types of cookies: lawful, neutral, and chaotic... but they're all evil.

Silver Crusade

I'll consider it, but it'll be a while. This archetype doesn't even get wildshape as early as most druids, so I don't think I qualify for the feat until level 7. So I'll probably stick to Spell Focus: Conjuration and Augment Summoning at 3 and 5.

It's too bad there are so few conjuration spells for druids to go with that.

Any other recommendations for offensive druid spells, though? Especially stuff that works indoors, since many require a more natural setting?

Silver Crusade

So I got a boon that lets me play a sylph in PFS, and I went with the Sky Druid archetype from the Advanced Race Guide, just because it would be something I couldn't do with any other race. I built her as a pure caster, with the Weather domain instead of an animal companion, and dumped strength, so no melee capability at all, but more spells than most druids.

I've only actually played this PC twice, but I also put some GM credits on her, so I'm up to advancing her to level 3. I'm hoping to play her again this weekend, and some more in the near future, so I'm looking for advice on feats and spells that would be good for this type of druid.

My first level feat was Cloud Gazer, the sylph specific feat that lets me see through non-magic clouds, and three times as far through magic clouds. The idea is that my domain gives me Obscuring Mist and Fog Cloud as my first two domain spells, so I can hide in my clouds and cast spells at the enemies without being targeted back. Of course, this only works in large, open battlefields - in closer combat, I'll just hide behind the front liners and skip the cloud spells, since they could mess up the rest of the party.

For other feats, I'm not sure what else would be useful for this type of druid. I'm thinking Spell Focus: Conjuration with Augment Summoning, to improve my Summon Nature's Ally spells. Beyond that, maybe Spell Penetration (and Greater) and Spell Focus (possibly with Greater) for the schools I use the most? Starting at level 5, my archetype will let me fly in combat most of the time without having to wild shape, so I won't wild shape as much as most druids, so I think I can skip the usual Natural Spell. I'd also consider Combat Casting, Toughness, or Lightning Reflexes. Reflex is my lowest save, and I figure the biggest threat to me when I'm hiding in my clouds would be an area of effect blast.

I'm also wondering what offensive spells I should be looking at. Due to the PC's pacifistic personality, I'm leaning towards non-lethal damage whenever possible, but she might do lethal damage with a spell as a last resort. This is another reason Weather domain works for her - the first level blast is non-lethal, but it has a little debuff to go with it, which is nice.

I'm also really liking that most of the sylph specific spells in the ARG are castable by druids. I've already used Windy Escape as a level 1 defensive spell, and now that I can get level 2 spells, Gusting Sphere is an offensive spell that goes with her theme (non-lethal, weather/wind based). Gusting Sphere isn't as good as Flaming Sphere for damage, but it's a little non-lethal damage with some battlefield control.

Like I said, I'll consider lethal damage if absolutely necessary, but I'm more inclined to look at battlefield control spells. In the past, I've prepped Entangle and Charm Animal for outdoor adventures. I was thinking Stone Call or Flaming Sphere now that I get level 2 spells. Soften Earth and Stone is another tempting one for outdoors, but it doesn't affect worked stone, so it won't work indoors. Similarly, Entangle and Charm Animal aren't good for dungeon crawls. What are some good spells to use instead?

And of course, I'm mostly looking at level 1 and 2 spells right now, since that's all I can cast so far, but I could use suggestions for higher level offensive spells, too.

Silver Crusade ***

Stiletto wrote:
If the party leaves at Section B6 do they lose the 2nd Prestige Point?

I don't have the scenario in front of me, so I don't remember the numbers of the rooms/encounters. But if you're talking about accepting the deal and using the key to leave, then yes.

Silver Crusade

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Try this.

Silver Crusade ***

I think the weirdest "Who are we again?" moment I ever had in a PFS game was with a friend of mine playing a Paladin/Hellknight from Cheliax. We were sent to infiltrate a group of Hellknights, and weren't supposed to let them know we're Pathfinders. But as a paladin, she can't lie.

That PC was so min-maxed that she started with int 7 and wis 7 to get her 20 charisma to start, and yes, she played up her character as a very dumb blonde. So the rest of the party just lied to her and told the PC we weren't Pathfinders. We were just some people going to visit some of her fellow Hellknights with her.

I don't know if that made her the worst Pathfinder ever, but I think it might qualify her as the worst Hellknight ever. And definitely the worst worshiper of Aroden ever (this was before paladins were required to have a legal deity in PFS, so she played up her very dumb paladin refusing to believe that Aroden's dead).

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