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Kirrian

Fourshadow's page

Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber. 1,436 posts. 5 reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

That was fun to watch! Had no idea anyone had done that, though it makes sense that it could be done.


Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I don't know why you would want to spend a feat on it. Personally, I prefer having a Human Bard who can use their FCB to learn Masterpieces.
Just give up a spell known and gain this Masterpiece. Clamor of the Heavens is one of my favorites!


Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
pauljathome wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:


Either way, it doesn't change the factor that Paizo wanted to publish what we have now

I don't think that you can conclude that Paizo wanted to publish what we have now. Lets take the Advanced Class Guide. Very clearly, they did NOT want to publish what actually got published. The size, extent and speed of the errata proved that.

I find it hard to believe that Paizo actually wanted to publish a shifter class that is being met with such nearly universal dislike.

Would you please do me a favor? Please note that this is the fallacy of over-generalization. I like the Shifter. My sons like the Shifter. I could name several others on these forums that like the Shifter.

Not a personal attack, just seeking to correct a fallacy based on personal perception and opinion.
Thank you.


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Calthaer wrote:
Keith Richmond wrote:
If you guys want to identify specific needs for those characters...
OK...I have a long list of things that would improve Lem in the Bard class deck.

  • Weapons that interact with spells (e.g., Spelldagger)...or just any ranged weapon besides the Deathbane Light Crossbow. I know I raved about that thing in Runelords, but when I got this deck and saw it was the only viable ranged weapon until that spear in deck 6, I was sad.
  • Needs different elements besides Electricity and Poison - all the different elemental basics (Unshakeable Chill, Acid Splash, etc.), or I think there were powered-up versions of Lightning Bolt (but with fire or something) in later sets. I took this guy in the Wrath season and it was so annoying that everything was immune to all the damage-dealing spells in the bard deck.
  • Would be great to get Life Drain at a lower deck #. The only offensive Healing spell is deck 5 (Life Leech).
  • Needs spells that can handle multi-check monsters. This guy can't be wasting 2, 3 of his 6(!) spells on one encounter - it is so painful and expensive, and so often I found that I'd be able to hit the first check but then I'd be hosed on check 2. Aqueous Orb and stuff like that. Form of the Dragon would be awesome. I know I can team up to mitigate, but there are still those times when you just can't be clinging to other peoples' skirts.
  • I often found this guy without a way to do damage in his hand - there's no reliable way to get that weapon right off the bat; his favored card type is spell, and if you are going with his Tent Preacher role, then your spells will be Cure spells and whatever (and there's not much divine offense
...

I play Lem and I have Acid Touch (or is it Arrow? Cannot recall) and Holy Light in his repertoire. Very useful. I have not come across any who are immune to Holy Light...fave spell so far, btw.


Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Ah, disparaging comments despite the fact that I mentioned (for both sides!) 'Different strokes for different folks'. I like the shifter, you don't. And that is okay..or should be. Civility is dying a horrible death due to the faceless anonymity of the internet.


Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It is BECAUSE of such authors we have RPGs. He was the grandfather of fantasy literature, so of course he wasn't going by RPG rules (insert eye roll here). There weren't any yet!
Whatever the intent, he used the word 'shape-shifter'. The character of Beorn does fit this class rather nicely in addition to the word choice. And the word was quoted from Gandalf, so Bilbo's perspective is irrelevant.

EDIT: Oops, the term used was actually 'Beorn the Skin-changer'.

Still, I see this class as being the closest equivalent to creating a Beorn-like character.


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The Sideromancer wrote:
I kind of just assumed Beorn was a natural lycantrhope. It's not like Tolkien cared about balance between main characters.

No mention of "Were-" or "Lycanthrope". Just the term 'shape-shifter'. Seemed very intentional to me. Also, he had absolute control over his forms. No outside influences to compel Beorn's change (i.e. phases of the moon).

This is exactly what I expected from the Shifter, so I have no issue with this class. It's Beorn and therefore very cool.


Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Except that Beorn was referred to as a shape-shifter, yet had only 2 forms, IIRC. So, no need to rename as literature has set a precedent for this class. No better authors than Tolkien, IMO. Perhaps this was part of their inspiration when the class was created.


Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Arcane Healer actually stacks with Sound Striker, if that interests you.

Yes, Duettist burns through Bardic Performance VERY quickly. Fun though, considering the familiar increases your effective range for your performance.
However, I prefer the Verbose Performer feat chain (Faction Guide, out of print). Or even the Fey Performance feat (in UW).
At 11th level, consider Discordant Voice feat to add 1d6 Sonic damage to the party weapon damage, including Weirdwords!


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This book is full of really good archetypes (IMO), but one that stands out to me and has not been mentioned is for the Investigator: The Star Watcher, which trades rapier proficiency for Starknife and alters Alchemy from extracts to star charts--including being given the Scribe Scroll feat. Talents are included for choices that include applying your Studied Combat, etc. to the Starknife, even while thrown. Returning is even a choice! Really cool.


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Ventnor wrote:
Fourshadow wrote:
Damiv wrote:
So the Hero Lab for Shifter dropped today (or at least I noticed it today). Gotta say I'm quite disappointed in the class. Any druid will be outshining you both in and out of combat from level 1, and the difference will simply get progressively worse from there. A shifter gets slightly (very slightly) better melee ability and gives up a ton of versatility, animal companion, and of course 9th level spells. As it is, I don't see any reason to ever play a shifter over a druid, and it's very unlikely that will change without a serious "unchained" level makeover at least. Sad, but not unexpected.
Well, some of us go for theme rather than DPR. So, I like the Shifter quite well, thank you. Different strokes for different folks.
Except Druids are better at the “shapeshifting” theme than shifters are.

I've heard that often already. Doesn't matter to me. I still like it. As I have said, it reminds me of Beorn...always loved that character. He's the way I imagined a Shifter would be, so the class is good enough for me.


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Damiv wrote:
So the Hero Lab for Shifter dropped today (or at least I noticed it today). Gotta say I'm quite disappointed in the class. Any druid will be outshining you both in and out of combat from level 1, and the difference will simply get progressively worse from there. A shifter gets slightly (very slightly) better melee ability and gives up a ton of versatility, animal companion, and of course 9th level spells. As it is, I don't see any reason to ever play a shifter over a druid, and it's very unlikely that will change without a serious "unchained" level makeover at least. Sad, but not unexpected.

Well, some of us go for theme rather than DPR. So, I like the Shifter quite well, thank you. Different strokes for different folks.


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Oops. The oozemorph is there...twice.

Good book, BTW.


Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Any chance the FAQ'd Sound Striker Bard archetype could get in this edition?! PLEASE?! I would absolutely purchase this if that was the case. I have been holding off purchase of this book in hopes that would happen.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I think this PC was overlooked by many due to UW coming out. There is some really good stuff in here!


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Faelyn wrote:

I'm disappointed in the Blighted Defiler kineticist archetype in that it requires an Evil alignment. Yet another interesting kineticist archetype that alters the primary stat that is forced into evil territory and therefore pushes it into NPC territory for a lot of games.

I absolutely love that we finally have a Large-sized bear animal companion though! That was a fantasy staple that we've been missing for way too long.

Perhaps you did not read the fine print? "...must be evil in order to use steal power." Otherwise, they can be any alignment.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Don't know the answer to #1, but the answer to #2 is yes. Any time it says a feature is replaced, then only that text applies. No mention of extracts means no extracts. Fetters instead.


Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Perhaps it's just the kid in me, but the caster on page 28 of this wonderful book bears a bit more than a passing resemblance to Kaos of Skylanders infamy...gave me a chuckle.

My favorite thing about this book is the background text provided for the more prominent races that call these 'wastes' home. Of course, that usually includes a trait or feat or archetype as well. And then there is the Elysiokineticist--I love it! I know, I said it before...I always liked the Wood element, but thought Earth was almost as cool and addressed threats better. However, the positive blast followed by this archetype changes that, IMO. Wood is now my fave element, period.


Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mbertorch wrote:

Speaking of the Forester, would it be allowed/possible to get a level by level breakdown of said archetype? Because I'm not kidding when I say this is my new favorite. This is everything I want in a class. Bonus combat feats, the first six levels of Druid spells (only sorcerer/wizard would be better to me), innate self buffing... I love this thing.

Also, this might be a dumb request, but could the elementalist shifter's attacks be explained a little more? Does it scale? Is it 'pure energy' damage? Etc...

It is possible, but discouraged until the print edition is on the shelf. Sorry.

I believe they are slam attacks with energy damage in addition...not absolutely certain.


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Dαedαlus wrote:
Fourshadow wrote:
Verzen wrote:
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
Verzen wrote:
Honestly, one of the funnest aspects of the shifter I think is the ability to get 60 foot movement speed (with pounce) at lvl 4...
...given the way the class is going, that'll probably get nerfed (or disallowed for PFS play) in the first errata patch.
I hope not. But fyi, movement DOES have a soft cap. Eventually, you won't be able to benefit from additional movement speed once it gets to a certain point. ;)
I doubt it. I think some are missing any differences in these Wild Shapers. Druid gets wild shape as the spell Beast Shape I. Shifter gets BEAST SHAPE II. Hence Verzen saying they get Pounce @ 4th level.

Yes, Druids do get Beast Shape I at 4th level. And then they get Beast Shape II two levels later, and Elemental Body I. Then they get Beast Shape III, Elemental Body II, Plant Body I.....

They also get to transform at will eventually, and *gasp* get to transform into humanoids whenever they want at level 13. That's not even counting all the forms they can take through Shapechange.

Out of curiosity, does the Shifter have any forms that would actually be good for infiltration? Or can they turn into dinosaurs, but not a common housecat?

Sounds like some just need to keep playing the OP Druid. I find the Shifter refreshingly different and focused.

Besides that, I would love to combine the Shifter with these feats that get rage powers.


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Verzen wrote:
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
Verzen wrote:
Honestly, one of the funnest aspects of the shifter I think is the ability to get 60 foot movement speed (with pounce) at lvl 4...
...given the way the class is going, that'll probably get nerfed (or disallowed for PFS play) in the first errata patch.
I hope not. But fyi, movement DOES have a soft cap. Eventually, you won't be able to benefit from additional movement speed once it gets to a certain point. ;)

I doubt it. I think some are missing any differences in these Wild Shapers. Druid gets wild shape as the spell Beast Shape I. Shifter gets BEAST SHAPE II. Hence Verzen saying they get Pounce @ 4th level.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
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Rysky wrote:

I like Wisdom! Wisdom good!

It boosts my Will saves and my Perception!

Which is often a weak save for martial characters...including the Shifter. So, you now have more incentive to fix it when you create your character. Not only do Will Saves get a boost, but your AC does, too. And you already get 4 skill points per level, so you may not need as high an Int score.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

They did say all Changlings are female, they did not address what Changling's children might be, though--IIRC.


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Mbertorch wrote:
graystone wrote:
Dragonborn3 wrote:
That's kind of weird. Do any Druid or Ranger spells get added to the list?

No, but they at least get to use a musical instrument as a divine focus.

shaventalz:
thundercaller: sound burst ability nerfed HARD.
hunt caller: Up to beast shape 3 and you can still use bard performances.

THANK GOD. Because a 2/3 Caster capable of some Blasting (a sub-par strategy itself) was simply too much.

I'm sorry. I'm usually not that critical/sarcastic. I just like Bards, and blasting, so this makes me sad.

Actually, I just compared the text from the book to what was in the Varisia PC (@ Archives) and the damage didn't change. A Supernatural Sonic damage attack with a Fort Save to avoid stun. Darn good for giving up Inspire Competence.

EDIT: It keeps Inspire Courage, I was wrong...hmmmmm.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The only thing wrong with the Shifter, IMO, is the need for more forms. However, for a fresh new class, I really like the ones available. Just need some more in future products.
I like the fact that they added Awesome Blow to the Bear Major Form (15th level). Smacks of Beorn to me!
Some see these forms as restrictive, but I appreciate everything be defined right there in one resource. Remember, this is the beginning of the class. There is more to come.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Gisher wrote:
Fourshadow wrote:
Wish I could stack the new Star Watcher Investigator with my Lamplighter...really cool archetype that gets proficiency with Starknife and Astrological extracts (means you make and read star charts to activate extracts).
Star Watcher sounds fun. I'll be curious as to whether it makes a viable switchhitter. But your Lamplighter is going to be happier with a Lantern Staff than Starknives anyway. :)

Very true, but that combination could've been so beautiful, could've been so right...(and if you get the reference, you may be over 40!).


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QuidEst wrote:
Entryhazard wrote:
How do the totem feats work?
Nonlawful, feat tax for entry, then Con and BAB requirements (as well as having no other rage powers). I think it’s BAB plus Con mod rounds per day? Pounce is limited to natural weapons only. Anyway, it’s a chain, so you can eventually get an entire totem.

Dex and Str reqs, not Con. Con does impact the rounds per day.

A lot of reqs, but might be worth it depending on how badly you want that rage power without being a Barb.


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Wish I could stack the new Star Watcher Investigator with my Lamplighter...really cool archetype that gets proficiency with Starknife and Astrological extracts (means you make and read star charts to activate extracts).


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Yes, this is a VERY good book. A nice little overview for what life is like in the Mana Wastes, blighted areas, abyssal and waterlogged. Good stuff!
Unlike someone else, I like the guns (2) in here. Multi-barrel, but rather short range and can do a variety of rounds/cartridges with them.
I like the Elysiokineticist, a lot. Is it optimum? No, definitely not. But it has its place/purpose.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Alchemaic wrote:
Fourshadow wrote:
Still reading and enjoying this book. Sure, a few missing items of text here and there...nothing "Common Sense" can't fix.
You'd be surprised just how lacking "Common Sense" is when someone needs a *very* liberal reading of a bit of text to justify something. Rules text needs to be airtight within whatever editing constraints exist.

For Rules Lawyers, sure. PFS too. But not for my friendly home games, which is where I play. So, "Common Sense" works just fine for ME, thank you.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Thankfully, I finally got my PDFs. And, I am going to say it: I LIKE THE SHIFTER. No, it isn't the Druid (in the running for the most OP class available!). Play the Druid if you want a Druid. The Shifter is a fun martial, IMO. A PURE martial...which is refreshing.

Still reading and enjoying this book. Sure, a few missing items of text here and there...nothing "Common Sense" can't fix.


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Yes! Unlike too many others, I like the Shifter! Good stuff, guys. Keep it coming!


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Fourshadow wrote:
Orders are only shipped on weekdays, correct?! Here's hoping mine gets shipped in the last few hours of this work week....

Well, that didn't happen. :'( Still waiting. Are there server issues getting in the way of fulfilling shipments? I guess you could call me impatient, but I cannot recall having to wait so long for my subscriptions to ship in the nearly 2 years I have subscribed. Have I just been lucky and now my luck has run out? Sigh.


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Not a spell but very useful for your meatshields in the party: Holy weapon balm. When put on a magic weapon, it hits incorporeal as if Ghost Touched. Also, does additional damage as if it was Holy Water.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
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Kryzbyn wrote:
Just got my shipping notice. 4 to 8 days i'll have the book!

Wait...are they actually shipping on Saturday? Or did you just now see your Shipping Notice?!

Whoa, the Thundercaller got a reprint?! I hope they tweaked it, because it certainly pushed the Over-Powered envelope.


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Any description of the Characters?


Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Oh so very nice. I do have a Grippli Alchemist who may find this very useful.


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Feros wrote:
Cruel Illusion wrote:
Something to do with Holomog, perhaps?
The book covers various wastelands, one of which is the Abyssal wastelands of the Worldwound. This kineticist is a response to that place.

Absolutely AWESOME! Love that archetype! I always did like phytokineticism and when the positive blast arrived for wood...now this? Fantastic. Glad I am getting this...just wish it would ship.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
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Orders are only shipped on weekdays, correct?! Here's hoping mine gets shipped in the last few hours of this work week....


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Isabelle Lee wrote:

What do you think of the green knight and the saurian champion? ^_^

(I'm also looking forward to hearing what people think of a few of the feats!)

I would love to tell you, but I am still waiting. Sigh.

Are you waiting for someone to ask which feats you are responsible for or do those with the PDFs have to guess?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
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Rysky wrote:

Same.

*sets up campfire*

Nice fire! May I join you? :D


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I did, but I have nothing so far...unusual for me.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Love what I am reading regarding the Shifter...and the Perform check ritual vs...well, that would be a Spoiler! But it is cool. Thanks to those who are answering questions.
I do not yet have mine...which is unusual. In the almost 2 years I have subscribed I cannot fill one hand with the times I have waited as long as this. Sigh.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Nate Z wrote:

....the snail's pace at which this thread is updating is slowly driving mad. It either needs to pick up or I need to get my shipping notice, or I may well snap. :P

Indeed. This appears to be the slowest we have gotten any updates. Still waiting on mine or I would be telling you something...


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Yep. Have had to log in multiple times per day the last several days. Previously, I rarely had to do so.


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So very cool! Love the 'chimeric' possibilities to customize a character for each encounter...


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Rysky wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Does the feral hunter get at will claws that overcome DR as they level? And monk AC bonuses?
And Full BAB?

Oh how sweet this is! Who knows, it may even compete to be my fave Martial class...which is Paladin right now.


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Hey, the shifter sounds good to me! Will immediately look through that part when I get my notice...when I...when...sigh. Not yet.


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Herald wrote:
I have to admit I was looking forward to seeing that charge on my card yesterday. (The only time I like to see that warning pop up.)

Me too! I love to see my cc charged to Paizo! And my wife never questions it! She loves me true, she do! :)


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RumpinRufus wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
One of my earliest RPG memories is of a ranger on a rhino. He shot everything in sight, and later, when the rogue couldn't pick a lock, just crashed right through the wall next to it and starting stacking up evil cultists on the horn.
This sounds awesome. I'm now changing my vote to a goblin riding a t-rex.

My son has a ratfolk hunter with a T-Rex. Quite the damage dealers, those two. He too went with archery.

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