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Forgottenprince's page

Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Society Member. 675 posts. No reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist.

Liberty's Edge

I've been tinkering and consolidating the various rules/spells/items/etc. for calling/binding outsiders and I noticed something interesting.

Both greater planar ally and greater planar binding have an 18 HD limitation. Yet the section on binding outsiders in the Ultimate Magic repeatedly references calling or binding outsiders with HD above that range (Balors, Draconals, Pitfiends, Solars, etc).

I see how gate circumvents that limitation for calling 18+ HD outsiders (its essentially a super planar ally spell) but there doesn't appear to be a Pathfinder canonical way to bind 18+ HD creatures. Am I missing something?

Also, given the Pathfinder rules for binding outsiders, how do people feel about the ensnarment and implore spells from Dragon magazine 336?

For those without access, ensnarment grants a +4 bonus v. SR of the target and allows the caster to use Intelligence instead of Charisma for Charisma checks but costs an extra 1,000 gp. Its clearly more useful for a wizard or sage bloodline sorcerer than any other kind of sorcerer but its available to both. I'd probably also allow it for witches given its creator/most famous user...

Implore allows the caster to bind a single creature of up to 22 HD, had an xp cost which converted to Pathfinder equates to 1,250 gp/HD (so max of 27,500 gp), imposes -4 penalty to the Will save/Charisma checks, ensured no double dealing, and granted the target a cumulative +1 bonus v. being called for 1 year.

Implore also required the caster to know the target's true name, which under the Ultimate Magic imposes a -5 penalty to the Will save and Charisma check. I think a total of -9 is a bit much, but then again you're paying more for a 22 HD binding than you are for a wish spell.

Thoughts? Observations?

Liberty's Edge

11 people marked this as a favorite.

I just wanted to announce that my wife and I welcomed our first child today. Its my sincere hope that she enjoys the hobby my wfe and I do.

Little Girl, I hope I can still find this thread when you're old enough to know how much your mother and I love you.


Liberty's Edge

I can't seem to find anything stating whether a PC's wealth by level should factor in his mythic tiers. Does a 10th level PC with 10 mythic tiers have the equipment of a 10th level PC or a 20th level PC?

If its 20th level PC, then what do we use for a 20th level PC with any mythic tiers? Just cap them at 20th levels value?

Hopefully I didn't miss a very obvious answer (wouldn't be the first or the last)!

Liberty's Edge

Ignoring for the moment the actual ability/stat modifications, is there anything other than a strict interpretation of the statement that "you become a Medium chromatic or metallic dragon" preventing a PC from using Form of the Dragon/Shapechange to become a Medium sized half-dragon?

Remember that the half-dragon template changes the base creature to "dragon" and (to my knowledge) the only possible half-dragons available are chromatics and metallics.

I think its technically legal, but it may violate the intent of the spells.

Thoughts? Concerns?

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Succintly put, what kind of weapon would you need to use to overcome the solar's "epic and evil" damage reduction?

Based off the "Overcoming DR" section on p. 562 of the Core Rule Book, it looks like satisfying the "epic" portion of the DR would automatically bypass the "evil" portion.

But p. 299 of the Bestiary and p. 296 of the Bestiary II both provide

A few other creatures require combinations of different types of attacks to overcome their damage reduction (such as “magic and silver”), and a weapon must be both types to overcome this type of damage reduction. A weapon that is only one type is still subject to damage reduction.

So does this mean that one would need a +6, unholy or +4, good outsider bane, unholy weapon to bypass the solar's DR?

What about the balor's "cold iron and good", the pit fiend's "silver and good", and the vampire's "magic and silver" DR?

I'm inclined to rule that the "Overcoming DR" table will only allow you to bypass one of the two DR's (epic or evil, cold iron or good, etc), which appears to put the Bestiary language into context. I'd like some other peoples thoughts on the subject.

Liberty's Edge

When I try to download anything from my downloads page, the page reloads and nothing happens. Instead I get an unspecified error at the bottom left of the page. Below is what I get when I double click the error.

Message: Unspecified error.
Line: 145
Char: 186
Code: 0

Liberty's Edge

Dear Paizo Customer Service,

I just received the above listed package and everything seemed to be in order with two exceptions.

1) My City Map Folio was NOT in the box, I just checked it twice.

2) The "Non-mint Sorcerer on the Dragon" mini had a wing completely broken off. If this is considered "non-mint" then that's fine, but if this is what you would normally classify as broken as such I wanted to bring it to your attention.

Hope you all have a Merry Christmas or Happy Holiday as you prefer.


Liberty's Edge


It looks like the total on the new version of the order is also off.

Liberty's Edge

So with the release of the PRPG, I'm about to do a reboot/AU of a high level on again/off again campaign I've run since undergraduate. Everyone is really excited (I think), I've been inspired by a book series to have a great story arc, people are statting up characters, etc.

There's just one problem (so far). Starting wealth. Specifically, some of the spellcasters are arguing that taking item creation feats entitles them to a discount on related items when choosing their gear for being above first level.

For example: 20th level characters are listed as having 880,000 gp in equipment. One 20th level spellcaster has the forge ring feat. Does his ring of protection +5 count as 50,000 gp of his equipment or only 25,000 (the cost to create it)? Multiply said questions by a large number of diverse feats, throw in the potential for failures/cursed items due to botched Spellcraft checks...

In the past (3.x) I have allowed this, usually as an encouragement to take the item creation feats. With the removal of the XP cost I'm not sure if this is necessary, besides there is no longer the threat of "abuse this and I'll dock you a level." For the record, I've NEVER had to follow through with that threat. I've been very lucky with regard to players.

Now, the non-casters as well as two of the spellcaster argue that, at least initially, no one should get a "crafter discount." This argument seems particuarly persuasive since the section on generating characters above 1st level does not mention the use of item creation feats. The proposed counter is that disallowing the discount penalizes the player for taking a "useless" feat.

What I was wondering is that for people who routinely start at mid to high levels what rules do you use? Do you give everyone the same amount of equipment or allow a "did it myself discount?"

I'd appreciate it if my players refrained from posting in this topic (I'm looking at you Taka, Lurion, and Sprith). I've heard your arguments, now I'd like to hear from other DMs/Players.

Liberty's Edge

Starting Monday, July 21, my wife and I will be sitting for the Louisiana Bar Exam. It’s a nasty process; 9 exams over the course of 3 days (MWF), each exam lasting 2-3 hours. It’s supposed to be a test for “minimal competence” with a minimum score of 70% required to pass each exam, but considering the breadth of topics you’re responsible for it’s not a cake walk. Then there’s the fact that the first five exams (Code exams) are more important than the last four (non-Code). There’s a wonky system for whether you fail completely (and have to take it all over again), pass (and don’t have to take any again), or “condition” (where you have to take the ones you failed again). It’s a real pain in the rear; we’ve been studying for two months for this thing. Worst part is that we won’t get results until October (after I’ve started my job as a “law clerk”). If I condition or fail I stay a law clerk until I pass, if they don’t let me go. Needless to say, it’s a real nerve-wracking time.
So, wish us luck. We need all the help we can get.

Sincerely, if not quite lucid,

Liberty's Edge

I’ve mentioned a couple of times on the Paizo boards that I’m embarking on a new pet project, namely, compiling all the spells I intend to allow in my campaigns into one central location. Rather than be just a “copy and paste” job I’ve decided to make two additions. First I’m going to indicate where the source spell originated from (company, book, and page number) for reference in case I seriously mess up a description. Second, and the real reason I’m posting this, is I’ll be implementing an “availability” mechanic. There are a lot of great spells out there, done by some of the best and brightest in the industry. But some spells are clearly more powerful than their core book competition and some clearly don’t fit within a given campaign setting. What I’d like is for people to review my proposed categories of “availability” and the in game effects they have. Constructive feedback is always welcome.

Couple of disclaimers:

1) I got the idea from the TSR (now WoTC) Wizard’s Spell Compendium, but did not follow their system word for word.

2) I am an unabashed epic and multi-setting fan, so I am building in methods for epic casters to have, in theory, every spell available to his or her class in the unlikely event they play that long. No one will start in my games with every spell available to their home setting, let alone the entire game.

3) Settings I intend to support include: Pathfinder (1st in my heart now!), Forgotten Realms (pre-Spellplague), Dragonlance, Scarred Lands, Eberron, and any others I grow enamored with.

Here are my categories as they currently appear in my Introduction:

Common: Common spells are spells that have crossed planetary and planar borders to such an extent that they are regarded as the “basis” of many magical traditions. Identifying, researching and selling common spells follow the rules presented in the Pathfinder RPG without modification.

PC’s may acquire common spells through level advancement according to their class. Once clerics, druids, paladins and rangers become capable of casting spells of a particular level, they automatically learn all common spells on their spell lists for that level. Bards and sorcerers may freely select common spells for their new spells known and may switch out old spells for new common ones according to their class. Wizards are allowed to choose any common spells they desire for their two new spells per level.

Example common spells include any spells found in Paizo’s Pathfinder RPG core rule book as well as custom created spells I deem to be widespread. Common spells are acceptable in any campaign I run unless I inform you otherwise.

Uncommon: Uncommon spells have also crossed planetary and planar at some point but for one reason or another are not as widespread as common spells. Because they are not as well known, Knowledge (arcana) and Spellcraft DC’s involving uncommon spells are increased by 2. Researching uncommon spells costs an extra 20% in time and money. A non-scroll written copy of an uncommon spell sells for an additional 10%. Scrolls of uncommon spells cost the same amount of time and money to create, but can be bought with a 20% markup and sold for an additional 10% of the base market price. Otherwise, if a magic item involves an uncommon spell, it does not change the market or sell price.

The acquisition of uncommon spells through level advancement is restricted in the following ways. Divine spellcasters do not automatically learn uncommon spells. Instead they must either research the spell themselves or study a written copy they have acquired through adventuring or purchase. Bards and sorcerers may choose an uncommon spell as a new spell known or in replacement of an old spell only if they have personally researched the spell or have a written copy to study. A wizard may also acquire an uncommon spell through research or by studying a captured spell. Once a wizard has learned all the common spells in the Spell Codex, he may begin selecting uncommon spells as his two free new spells per level.

Examples of uncommon spells include sanctified and vile spells from WoTC’s Book of Exalted Deeds and Book of Vile Darkness, respectively. Other uncommon spells can be found in various WoTC splatbooks that are not tied to specific campaign settings like the Complete Mage, Complete Champion and Spell Compendium.

Rare: Rare spells are spells that, while known in their place of origin, have not spread to other planes and worlds. Spells that have been labeled as rare are assigned to a specific campaign setting. For characters from that campaign setting or who have spent a significant amount of time studying that setting’s magical traditions (my call, but over a year in game would not be unreasonable), rare spells generally follow the rules for uncommon spells such as increased skill DC, market price and research time.

For all other characters, identifying and acquiring a rare spell is a bit of a problem. Knowledge (arcana) and Spellcraft DC’s involving rare spells are increased by 5. Successful checks for purposes such as identifying the spell as it is being cast or while it is still in effect will only result in a general description of the spell. I will describe the spell as being “an altered form of the ‘xxx’ spell” or “it seems to have ‘y’ effect upon your companion.” Rare spells may not be independently researched by someone unfamiliar with the designated settings magical traditions. Instead, they must either be purchased in some written form at an additional 50% market price or must be discovered as treasure. Copies of rare spells may be sold for an additional 25% of the base market price.

The acquisition of rare spells through level advancement is restricted in the following ways. Divine spellcasters do not automatically learn rare spells. Instead they must study a written copy they have acquired through adventuring or purchase. Bards and sorcerers may choose a rare spell as a new spell known or in replacement of an old spell only if they have a written copy to study. A wizard may acquire a rare spell only by studying a captured spell. A wizard may never select a rare spell as one of his two free new spells per level.

Examples of rare spells include all the spells found in campaign specific books or which I feel belong in a particular campaign setting and not others, even if the spell was later republished in a splatbook. Thus, the energy transformation field spell that was published in WoTC’s Magic of Faerun and later republished in WoTC’s Spell Compendium is a rare Forgotten Realms spell. Another example includes the repair construct spell series which first appeared in WoTC’s Tome and Blood, were republished in the Eberron Campaign Setting, and were republished in the Spell Compendium. Despite being published twice in splatbooks, the repair construct spell series are designated as rare Eberron spells.

Restricted: Restricted spells are either known only to their creators and a small number of other spellcasters or they are only distributed to members of a particular organization. For characters from that belonging to such an organization or who persuade the spell’s creator to share the spell, restricted spells follow the rules for uncommon spells such as increased skill DC, market price and research time. Thus a member of an organization could identify a restricted spell as if it were merely uncommon (+2 to DC), buy a copy for an additional 20% of market price and sell written forms of the spell to the organization or creator for an additional 10%.

For all other characters, identifying and acquiring a restricted spell is nearly impossible. Knowledge (arcana) and Spellcraft DC’s involving rare spells are increased by 10. Successful checks for purposes such as identifying the spell as it is being cast or while it is still in effect will only result in a very vague description of the spell. I will describe the spell as being “some kind of fire based spell” or “it seems to have affected your companion, in what way you are not sure.” Restricted spells may not be independently researched by anyone outside of the particular organization or who is not close to the spell’s creator. Restricted spells are generally unavailable to outsiders. Instead, they must either be taken from a spellcaster who has access to them or they must be discovered as treasure. Copies of rare spells may be sold for an additional 100% of the base market price but brings the risk that the organization or creator will backtrack them to the character. Such a development is rarely a happy event.

Examples of restricted spells includes many “named” spells, spells developed by and only available to a particular religion, and spells shared amongst an organization. For example, the Simbul’s synostodweomer spell, was published in WoTC’s magic of Faerun and later was republished as synostodweomer in WoTC’s Spell Compendium, is a restricted Forgotten Realms spell which is usually only available to those the Simbul has deemed worthy. Other examples would include the clergy specific spells found in Paizo’s Pathfinder deity articles. Finally, spells developed by the Orders of High Sorcery in WotC’s and Margaret Weis Productions’ Dragonlance books would be restricted spells typically only available to Wizards of High Sorcery.

Liberty's Edge


Just saw that Jason B was online, hoping to grab his attention.

Liberty's Edge

Does anyone know of a way to get the texture/art from the cover of the Player's Guide for RotRL without the text? I'm planning on making a binder for all the spells allowed in my campaigns and I'd like to use the front and back covers as binder art.

Specifically, does anyone know how to get the back cover without the extra stuff (OGL compliant, etc)? I can put a text box to cover the "Player's Guide" bit on the front.


Liberty's Edge

I just got my combined Pathfinder/Chronicles delivery but it was also missing my Gazetteer. The Order number was 935365.


Liberty's Edge

Does increasing the character's Intelligence through ability point increases add skill ranks retroactively? IE: Human Wiz 3 with Int 17 has 2+3+1 skill ranks/level. If he adds +1 to Int bringing it up to 18 does he retroactively get 2+4+1 skill ranks/level or is inly prospective. Considering that magic items that last longer than 24 hours now grant skill points (p. 115) this isn't as clear cut as it used to be.

I'm in favor of retroactivity, been using it for years without issue, but did anyone see anything different in the PDF?

Liberty's Edge

It says d8 in class write up but it says d10 on designer note class hit die

Liberty's Edge

We just started Rise of the Runelords with character's using the Alpha Rules, yesterday. For once I get to play, and I'm running a wizard with Pathfinder Society aspirations. Thus, he's keeping a journal. I've got two questions so far.

1. Other than "first day of autumn" is there an official start date for the RotRL? I'd scour the adventure but I'm trying to avoid refreshing the storyline in my head to enjoy it more (I read it before the DM volunteered to run it).

2. Has anyone/Paizo posted copies of the NPC potraits? I can copy and paste the ones in the adventure into Paint... but I'm not very good with the program so I feel like I'm butchering it. I wanted to add some pictures to give the other players a face to remember when I'm discussing an NPC.

Any help would be most appreciated.


Liberty's Edge

So I’ve got a group of epic level adventurers based in Faerun. Since I’m not a big fan of some of the upcoming FR changes, I’ve been steering them towards changing it into a planar campaign. I thought it’d be great if they created their own demiplane and used that as their new base of ops, so I mentioned it to them.

They loved the idea.

I’m going the whole nine yards by making a Manual of the Planes type entry, making maps with Dunjinni, they’re using an epic spell variant of the genesis spell to make the demiplane, they’re creating a mythal, portals, etc.

There is only one thing stopping me.

They want to make a forest with a lot of rare (magical) plants, like the wierwood trees from the FR setting book, as a nature preserve. The problem is I’ve only found descriptions on rare plants/trees in the FR setting, the Silver Marches, and the 2E Volo’s Guide to All Things Magical and not all of those would fit in the intended climate of the demiplane.

Yeah, I’m trying to get realism for a fantasy game, forgive me.

I’d like some more options. This weekend I’m going through my Dragon magazines, so I’m not asking for help because I’m lazy (though I won’t ignore any articles people point out for me). But if anyone knows of a collection of magic plants/trees/”natural” features, including descriptions, I’d appreciate it if you drop me a line.



Liberty's Edge

James Jacobs,

I just started running this adventure Saturday for a group who've never played above 14th level before. This is the second time I've used this adventure for introducing a group to epic level game play, and like last time, my players are having a blast.

The story has been intriguing for them, and thanks to your advice about divinations, they actually believed the assasins & Lascer were the good guys until they talked to Urlkathoon. After that, there was a lot of forehead slapping! They are very eager to finish the adventure this weekend.

Basically, you rock!


Liberty's Edge

Has anyone heard anything about game play above 4th edition's "epic" levels (ie, 31st+)? Specifically has anyone heard whether they will/will not release rules for it in the future? If they will release it, any clue when?

Despite A LOT of problems with it, my players and I have always enjoyed 3.x's epic level system and have played the same characters for over 5 years now. If they will provide 31st+ level gameplay, then one possibility my group and I have discussed is remaking their characters at a lower level and, hopefully, time the game to reach 31st level with the release of such rules.

I'm not exactly thrilled about buying new books (especially since I'm just finishing law school), but something that can simplify (supposedly) my workload as a DM while providing the game my players want is worth examining. If they have definitively stated they won't release such rules, then I'll happily run 3.x games for many years to come.

Thank You.

Liberty's Edge

Just how many of us Paizo fans are lawyers or law students? I'm currently a 2L in La (looking to go into tax law), and I never expected to meet anyone else who shared my favorite hobby.

Imagine my surprise to discover that there are a number of lawyers or fellow law students on these boards. Further imagine my surprise to discover one of my schools Con law/civ proc professors is also a D&D player. Im really beginning to wonder...

So if anyone is interested in sharing their legal background I'd be greatly interested.

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