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Ryan Dancey wrote:
VR-MMO personally ;)
You guys should see if oculus rift support could be viable in the future for PFO /grin
Ryan Dancey wrote:
So it's essentially the same concept with character creation, you can't go balls to the walls on the customization angle because you have to consider the hardware assets that would be required to render it all specially if you have large groups of players in one area and within draw distance of each other.
But you have to juggle that card a bit because everyone wants that unique feel about their characters in a mmorpg.
I like the portrait concept someone mentioned earlier, being able to craft a realistic view of our characters for the portrait, screened and allowed, then uploaded. It would give the artists around here something interesting to do and create a whole another little thing to the experience (specially immersion in a way).
The system could also tie into the forum avatar system, similar to how square enix handles FFXIV forum avatars, your in game representation is your forum avatar.
Regardless I'm going to be interested to see how it's handled, I'd assume different materials = different textures at least in the final created item (initially or eventually).
It must be tough though, wanting that uniqueness accessible but not being able to give it to the players
Vic Wertz wrote:
While the post-launch development period will involve a lot of player input, it's not "design by committee," and unless everyone agrees something has gone terribly wrong, it won't involve rewriting the fundamentals. It's about letting the community guide the development focus; essentially, answering the question "what should we do next?"
So I just have to brainwash the community, mwahahaha.
I like the concept personally because it keeps that community aspect that you guys have helped created around here while also acknowledging that most the stuff developers give us is s+%+ we don't want.
But you know bounty hunting is coming, might as well start working on it :P
You'd be correct.
There are many players that get satisfaction from simply combating the elements of the game to one extent or another. It isn't really "combating the devs" per-say but more taking the elements of the game and using them to the extent that it seems like manipulation of it.
Being frank they aren't breaking the game, they are playing it but I guess you'd say they are "power playing" the game at such a hardcore level that it seems mind-boggling to the normal player how they are understand the game to such a level.
In a sandbox environment you expect it however, it's one of those things to adds to the dynamic and community of the game.
We saw a true "combating the devs" with eve a while back, it's when devs partake in the universe they create that you can call it "combating the devs" until you get to that point where the players rise up against the creators it's not even fighting back but using what was made to absolute precision.
And immersion happens on many different levels in video games, so they might be immersed in the game and playing it to that hardcore extent ;)
One one hand it's nice sure but...
From Everquest and FFXI (& FFXIV) experience, ryans team "foozle" theory is correct but he worded it nicely. The actual reality of what happens is much worse then what ryan described, you think you can stop them? If they are a static spawn in x hex? No way in HADES!
The only way you could pull it off would be if the monster random spawns all over the map in any hex, then that monster would also have to have a random loot list that drops various things based on the hex it has spawned into.
And even then with such a system the same thing ryan said would happen only that the team "foozle" would be bigger, cover a larger area, use exploits and bots to achieve the goal (which they would do in the simplest static application of the rare spawn).
Honestly keep the rare spawn, take away the item of rare value and the monster would become another monster, people wouldn't care if it was rare or normal.
However if you have gamers that game for challenge and not e-peen (which is rare these days) then you could get a case for having rare spawns with good mechanics in the open world but they would only be fought for the achievement associated with them or the challenge itself, the reward being very trivial.
So the case for rare spawns really comes down to, do you want harder monsters or do you want exploitable high quality loot with the possibility of inflating the economy?
Only games of late that I've enjoyed the music in the mmo-genre would be FFXIV. For ambient sound I'd have to give a nod to The Secret World, that game really has good immersion qualities even if the gameplay doesn't.
Guild Wars 2 is probably the close third.
Only games I never really want to be on teamspeak or mumble for because it really pulls me away from the experience.
Nihimon is correct though, know a lot of people that would debate the hell out of my choices above with poison tipped daggers given the chance but you know what art is very subjective so I just raise the middle one to them =P
I'll third it, don't waste the money on voice actors for npcs and such.
Sure if you have lots of cut-scenes ala swtor or guildwars 2 it brings a whole different dimension to the game but for what PFO is trying to be I think it can sit on the backburner to the gameplay and lets face it once most people have seen that content it's done and dusted. You attract a different crowd with sandbox games because players actually have to think (it sounds bad I know but it's true), they more then not have to create things to do themselves instead of how themeparks work with relying heavily on scripted content coming from someone else.
The thing PFO should focus on (which a lot of mmo's don't anymore) is gameplay systems, you add a proper depth to gameplay and the experience is so much more different.
They've already established a impressive (ambitious) list to build the game into and they should just keep adding to it.
In saying that I still want 7.1 and surround sound support! No point having a 3.5m long x 4m high wall with a HD projector blazing onto it with my sound setup if I can't enjoy it ^_^;
Mirage Wolf wrote:
Will there be different architecture styles of building up a foundation? A Taldan's building would look drastically (?) different from Garundi, for example.
Pretty sure it was ryan that said structures would match the environment in which they were built in, whether this relates to different architecture styles or not is something you'd have to get him to answer but I'd guess that a settlement built in a desert would be different then in a snow region, forest region, etc.
Ryan Dancey wrote:
@Fire Bud - you'll be disappointed. There won't be walls around Hexes.
Oh not around a whole hex, that would keep explorers, adventurers and traders away because I wouldn't claim any taxes because they are outside of my hex control. I'm talking about my primary settlement really, my home is my castle, well my nation is my home so my home is my castle =P
I don't think I could even imagine a entire city spanning a hex, that would just be insane (it would be cool but insane).
Anyway you stated that the better a settlement the higher the dungeons in that slide show, so if you stick with that walling and isolating a whole hex would be detrimental to a nation or settlements growth.
Prove me wrong if I'm incorrect but the better a settlement becomes the better the territories under it become for players overall.
So from my understanding it creates a kind of competition between nations and/or settlements to beat the others down (or ally) while keeping your own nations and/or settlements at a high standard to improve the overall experience for the players who want to venture into your lands.
So that ultimately the more people that come to your territories the more taxes you can acquire to improve everything even more and further dig your feet in against others while providing a core gaming experience to others at the same time.
Essentially from my point of view a settlement is a giant treasure trove that you give out to players for free but they give you lots of rewards in return for making it a great little playground for them and to improve that little playground.
I hope they don't have 100% secure storage in settlements because it adds a huge reason to pvp/invader/war/use diplomacy against another settlement for resources.
Combined with the fact in a settlement you could have that unsecured thieve-able storage system but instead have it guarded by powerful npcs, traps, wards and other creations that only people allowed to use it are able to get around unharmed and it becomes interesting.
Add in the possibility you could have with a upgradable storage system that gets more secure and bigger with each new tier. Say you start at with a room full of chests, then you upgrade it into a vault with a couple guards, then a multi-chamber vault pushed underground with traps, golems and a magical lock that summons a boss style monster to stop thieves.
Part of the reason why EvE still has people playing it is that nothing is permanent, you can lose items, lose ships and it adds to the cycle to get things again and help keep the economy strong.
I'm not saying theft shouldn't have it's limits but it should definitely play a role in settlements, specially if a invading settlement just can't get past your resource stockpile and instead sends in a group to sabotage it to remove that advantage from you.
Combined with the fact you could have a system that flags stolen items, meaning you can only trade them for use via person to person contact, not on auction systems or to npcs, which again would be very interesting to the economy.
Despite what people might think it can add a lot to the game if used right and while it might not be fun to have some of your loot taken from your settlement (note I say settlements and nothing to do with npc controlled towns storage or the like) it can add a depth of gameplay to sandbox games if used correct.
Sandbox is about freedom, players interacting with players as ryan puts it, the more layers you can add to it the more things are possible.
Personally hoping I can build a giant wall around my nation, isolationism and all that with minimalistic trading of goods that happen in small settlements just outside my nations walls near it's main gates/points of entry.
That way I give birth to the need to have thieve and smuggler guilds so all those crazy roleplayers have something to actually do in that avenue.
Greatest advantage would be that I can hold greater protection of my lands from monsters and outside invaders, naturally I'd expect the cost to be enormous but the pay off if possible would be so great.
But at the end of the day if I couldn't lose everything then there would really be no point in me trying to acquire it/build it in the first place.
Hell yeah thornkeep is going to be some good epic dungeon fun ^_^
I haven't stopped advertising to people to support the project for the last few days but most don't like the incentives unfortunately as tabletop holds no interest to them.
On top of that they see all the dev videos getting leaked anyway so that base induction incentive holds no sway either :(
But power to the goblins, we few, we proud, we green lil beauties! (I would have used something else but I can't remember the rules on it).
The artwork? If your talking about the stuff on the kick starter page that all comes from the manuals. And most the guns in pfo are very basic or elemental infused, the ideal way is to do it with very rare or emerging rules so that guns are limited to Magical items or siege engines. You don't need the gunslinger or archetypes with these rules, it only allows gunsmithing in uncommon hands and treats gun creation as still secret and highly sort after arts.
It removes everyone having them as players but allows for such things as the possibility of gunpowder/black powder into campaign for things like cannons which would be useful for sieges and those gunpowder siege weapons are a large chuck of siege weapons.
Also many of the special ammo types are launched from fire engines.
The limit on the rules makes guns as viable as bows or crossbows but at the start they could just limit it so gunslingers aren't in the game but we can use the rules for siege engines and pvp.
We will know more once they announce the timeline for the game, current time or future means they will have to because they exist in the timeline and are part of core classes like holy gun for paladin or spell guns for wizards.
Well you have to add guns into that equation.
Personally I'd want that to include non-combat options with environmental interaction possibilities to bring down a enemy or get through dungeons.
DeciusBrutus is correct in that certain characters should be able to handle certain situations better then others, like a room full of traps should be easily navigated by a thief with the rights skills then a mage or a fighter.
And rightfully a mage should be better at dealing with say a arcane lock on a magically sealed vault. How a fighter would work into equations like this is the thing I can't work out because they are as simple as name-sake.
I agree with the cross class combinations though, a mage imbues a fighters weapon for fire/lightning/etc to battle something with a elemental weakness or a thief throws a bottle of sleep tonic on the ground while the mage uses wind magic to push it down into a corridor to incapacitate the enemies so the group can sneak past.
My magic eight ball says: He's a Time Lord!
My spidey senses simple tell me: If you could see the future, you wouldn't be here =P
If made right it's possible to add those elements into the game in some fashion. Player created content can exist in a mmo game, it just has to have been developed into the game (and done right).
To the same degree though you could claim that table-top rpgs should never have been made into books or movies either because they are more often then not bad but it happens.
It's the skill of the craftsmen that brings about the result of good or bad, if you want something though that is like the original NWN then look into the new NWN mmorpg because they are putting in a DM system ;)
1: Artistically Beautiful World
GW2 does this in amazing detail in certain areas, in others not so much while keeping the ability to run on a huge range of systems.
Winds, Heavy Winds, Dust Storms, Lightning, Rain, Heavy Rain, Storms, Cyclones, Blue Skies, Blizzards, Calm Days, Cloudy Days, Drizzles, Clear Nights, Dark Nights, Cloudy Nights, Fog, Mists, Heavy Thunderstorms, Howling Winds, Humidity, Icestorms, Midnight Sun, Snow Showers, Wind Storms.
Weather has a under used quality in the worlds in video games and can open up absolutely incredible amount of immersion if used, biggest reason it isn't used enough is financial resources and hardware requirements.
3: Layered Clothing
I want the ability to be able to layer my clothing on my characters, the ability to make my character look unique in a game world that follows DnD principles can not be understated.
4: Clothing Creation System
I want the ability while creating armor, clothing, wearables in the world to be able to change them more then simply dying them. I want to be able to give them patterns, remove or add parts from other armors to them and make them unique so that while out in the world players can appreciate what they are wearing instead of going "oh I've got fell plate +1 armor with XXX of Epics".
Yeah that's right don't make hairstyles, beards, etc on a characters face item shop re-customization based. Give us something so simple as this can make a lot of players (specially RPers) happy as hell.
6: Night and Day MATTER!
We have all seen it done in certain mmorpgs but night time needs to be feared and in a DnD verse it should be feared, in pathfinder it should be a sense of absolute terror to be in the depths of a forest alone or otherwise at night.
Certain monsters should come out only at night, certain monsters should only come out in the day but the night is to be feared! And in saying that...
7: Realistic Lighting System
If I go down into a dark catacomb, unless it's got it's own light sources I should have to bring torches. This also helps improve the immersion of pvp and lets us use light spells.
It also adds a ambiance to the world like weather that improves peoples immersion (I say immersion a lot but it helps keep mmo players coming back to play games and keep them subscribed).
8: Don't Make Block or Dodge Range Number Generated, Give Players that Control!
I don't need to say anything on that one.
9: Monster Arenas & Player Arenas
Player Arenas are PvP Based, Something Simple in the Rome Style Fashion.
Monster Arenas give players a reason to go out into the world in search of incredible dangerous pray other then to slay it! Battle it down, stun it, build a cage around it (or bring a prepared one) and drag it back to town for sacks of coin and the chance of others to prove their worth in front of a crowd ^_^
Make repairs both NPC based and Player based.
FFXIV does this where players can repair something to 100% if they have the item (dark matter, used to be actual items) but NPC based repairs can only go to 99%. In order to pass items onto other players you have to have a item at 100% repair otherwise you can't pass it on if it's tradeable.
Thus you have a reason to seek out craftsmen if you want to sell something you've previously used.
11: My Personal Dungeon
Yeah that's right if I get evil enough and decide to build a fort, I don't want a fort! I want a massive tower or a underground labyrinth from which to lure my pray into in order to destroy them, they can loot my corpse and take my stuff after I'm dead but they have to get to me first!
This also ties back into the monster capture system with the arenas, who doesn't want to sell extremely violent, overly dangerous monsters to a prince of darkness or crazy mage hellbent on wickedness.
The idea behind this craziness is the ability to create dungeon modules and hold onto areas with valuable resources without the need for a large group to defend or hold onto that area but also to give a player created raid concept to the world.
Layout inside the dungeon, monster located herein, traps, everything designed by the player (or players). It seems like a mad feat for one person to pull off alone but a highly skilled player could craft these absolutely brilliant pieces of content.
Imagine it, going into a player created dungeon, fighting your way through it and finally defeating someone at the end (or them escaping! leaving you cursing the moons) and not only getting excellent content but also you acquire a building which you can re-purposes by taking it's resources and building you own structure in it's place.
12: Player Shops, Forges, Farms, Workshops, Etc
Give them to us, not the korean way, the way it should be where we actually have a structure that we build (in player cities) or purchase (in placed cities) so that we can craft and sell our wares.
I accept the bazaar system and many will because you get those pack merchants who will take something from somewhere else and sell it in other locations.
13: No unified Auction House
If we are aiming for a player driven economy we need to have reasons to venture to other places and caravan items from x to y to z. Sure there will always be that central location in video games that everyone migrates to in order to get things but with player controlled structures like forts, towers and the like you need for them to have resources shipped to them.
If you are sieging a structure that can easily repair itself by mailing the resources from the other side of the map to your inventory or stockpiles then don't even bother with player controlled structure based pvp it just will not work.
Give us seasons, like night and day suggestion early this allows for more immersion plus the ability to change up monsters based on even more factors adding to the uniqueness of the world.
15: Underwater Systems
Has to be done, simply to many monsters in the codex that are water based not to go for something like GW2 has done where 3D combat is viable.
16: Environmental Consequences
Playing into weather previously suggested, things like snow storms, sand storms, lighting storms, cyclones, etc should have a impact on modifiers (at least) to combat.
Things like traversal of the world can just be animation based, where in heavy winds or a dust storm a character might shield his face or look like he/she is struggle with the force of the situation.
17: Encumberance should exist
Encumberance might not sound like a smart idea in gaming but it's always existed in DnD and it should exist here in the pathfinder online game.
I don't mind coin not having weight but items other then it should.
We shouldn't be able to lug 10 tons of ore from x to y to z.
We all know blackmarkets exist in pathfinder, lets make them happen in pathfinder online, who doesn't love allnight :P
19: Holy Trinity Limited
It's DnD, It's Pathfinder and all the archetypes in the genre were created by our beloved parent. But in saying that we should find a system that isn't reliant on healers or tanks.
Encounters should be open ended in that you don't need a set structure in order to tackle them (sure it can work for some of the content but playing whack a mole isn't fun), just good players.
20: I shouldn't have a kill everything in a dungeon!
Dungeons should not be built around the idea of monsters, they should be built around the idea of adventure and the unknown. Say I randomly stumbled across a dungeon, an ancient ruin in the middle of a forest, it's entrance had been blocked for god knows how long and I open it with my group and venture inside.
It's fulled with death traps, not a monster in sight! Instead of fighting our way through the dungeon we know how to THINK! our way through the dungeon because since our party doesn't follow the trinity we don't have a healer and we have a rogue/thief with limited trap skills so he can't detect the most dangerous traps.
We use a deduction of logic to work our way through the death maze to the prizes which wait within it's depths! (and maybe cannon fodder decided through rock, paper, scissors...).
21: What is a Name! Is that my Brand!
The ability to nickname/brand our weapons, armors, wares, brewed concoctions and all the goodies crafted by yours and yours truly. Everyone loves to be acknowledge for their efforts in downing a raid boss, why not give crafters love by letting people acknowledge their items!
22: Allow Pickpocketing
It seems like a counter-productive idea to let players steal coin from other players (specially because of gold farmers) but it makes sense to have in pathfinder because of thieves.
To stop gold farmers just add a mechanic into the game where if you steal to much npc members of thieves guilds come after you for hunting on their turfs.
Defeat them and they send assassins after you, defeat the assassins and they put a player based bounty on your head for everyone to hunt you down!
23: Shrouded Stealth, Not Invisible
If you have stealth in the game it should appear like previous DnD games where players are shrouded when they stealth instead of being completely invisible like the current norm.
24: I proper Death Penalty
Bring back the fear of death! Too hades with convenience, let us make death something that players try to avoid to the best of their abilities and not something they shrug their shoulders at!
Don't follow Star Wars: The Old Republic, World of Warcraft, Elder Scrolls Online or any cartoony (so called stylized) graphic styles for the love of zeus!
The style established in the manuals can be adapted into a fantastic looking video game, use it in all it's glory so that we can fear our monsters, immerse ourselves in the world and enjoy the universe we all enjoy playing in.
Like how things were done in the middle ages with color distinction between countries military forces allow us to visualize the cloth based pieces of our armors (specially for pvp reasons).
Nothing is worst then bring in a massive battle and not being able to tell friend from foe in the thick of battle, more so in melee combat instead of ranged because most ranged players migrate towards "AOE AOE AOE, KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!!!!" mentality.
27: x4, x6, x8, x12 multi-threaded cpu support
Make use of technology, most gamers will upgrade if they really want to play the game because they are excited about it, make x4 aka quad cores the standard for the game as it opens up a lot of leg room.
28: 4GB of Ram Minimum
Yeah you heard it and you know damn well why!
29: Cross Spell, Cross Environment Interaction
Fire + Oil = Fun
Water + Ice Spell = Fun
Needles + Tornado = Great Tool of Lethal Fun
Make things work together and make the depth of possibilities awesome.
30: 1+, 2+, 3+, Enchants, Etc Matter
+ Items should always been something of a rarity, a badge that says "damn I wish I had a high quality item".
Things like enchants for fire, ice, etc, etc should matter in encounters with monsters. I flame sword should be useless against a fire elemental but a flame shield should be infinitely useful!
Thinking I'll end my randomness their today
The ability to dodge & block (with shield or weapon) attacks is a must, always been a game breaker to me in mmorpgs that I couldn't dodge or block things and after playing GW2 & Tera recently I have to admit it was something that should have been in the genre half a decade ago if not longer.
If they can find a combat style that can in a way be semi-twitch with tactical thinking they'll be able to pull off something amazing.
Agreed with Andius as well, never limit pvp (specially open world sandbox pvp). That's the most suicidal thing this game could do in regards to pvp. Sure you'll get the zergers, the conquers and the tyrants but that's what makes sandbox games great is that things that can happen will happen and players have to accept them or rise up to overcome them.