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Hand of the Inheritor

Fergie's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 1,580 posts (1,600 including aliases). No reviews. 1 list. No wishlists. 3 aliases.


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Caineach wrote:
For a similar reason, if I were among the protesters I would ask Al Sharpton to shut up and go away, since he is a more divisive figure than anything else.

I don't think there is a civil rights activist/leader in history who wasn't called divisive.

From my experience, almost any sympathetic public attention to your cause is very important when you are dealing with the police. I was very happy when Al Sharpton joined us for a critical mass ride one night. It brought lots of attention and diversity, and was really magnanimous of him to help us out. David Lee Roth mentioned joining us on his radio show, but as far as I know, Al Sharpton is the most renown person to join NYC critical mass during those 'police crackdown' times.

Also have to mention the support of Norman Siegel.

http://gothamist.com/2008/05/30/al_sharpton_rid.php

Cornell West is the strongest supporter of the rights of the people of Ferguson that I can think of. I can't name anyone else of much fame publicly supporting the people on the streets. Am I missing anyone?


Just recently discovered that one of my pet rats had a little botfly infestation. The first symptom we noticed was a inch+ long larva emerging from the poor little guys belly. The vet said they don't really damage the host, but it sure freaked me out!

I never knew that the Alien movies were based on reality.


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
Is that a kosher dill pickle or a sweet pickle?

Want me to tell you where the pickle/goblin connection comes from? - minor runelords spoiler...


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Caineach wrote:
Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
Cornel West Arrested in Ferguson
I really don't see how a guy going out to get arrested at a protest getting arrested is news.

I think if you view it in the context of the civil rights movement, it might make more sense to you. That might also be why this appears under the "black voices" part of the Huff Post. A black man standing up to white cops is sadly still very relevant in this day and age.

Generally protests only get attention when they are violent or include property destruction. The other option is celebrities, especially if they are arrested. Otherwise, it rarely attracts mainstream media attention.


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Dance protest outside police station and cop stomps protestors outside gas station
Also from Vice
Roundup of recent police actions I like how the NYPD ones are of robbing and beating defenseless people, and the Michigan one is of a cop helping. [shakes head] F*$%ing NYPD

Say what you will about Ferguson, but linking arms and standing your ground in front of those cops takes massive courage!


Rynjin wrote:


...Common sense: The man was known to previously be armed and dangerous,...

First of all, I think he was know to have a weapons charge. As someone who has has a weapons (rifle to be specific) related charge on there record, yet has never owned, and only fired real guns once (years later), I can tell you that a weapons charge has nothing to do with being armed and dangerous.

The bottom line is that busting in people doors and throwing flash-bangs around is very dangerous for all involved. You should only do it when it is absolutely necessary. It was very clearly NOT needed in this situation. That means the police f-d up, and should be held accountable for their actions just like any other person who busts into a strangers house and maims a kid.


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
[Shrugs]

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad I read the article. It just seemed the article was saying that the march being an inclusive and autonomous event was somehow a bad thing. I don't think that some billionaire lobbyist douches sponsorship reduces the importance of a person willing to spend the day protesting for the environment. Especially since the value of a person protesting is worth about $0 to begin with.

I do always like to know where the money comes from.


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

...

The Great “People’s Climate March” Scam

Frankly, I hope you pinkskins wipe yourselves out, and the sooner the better. We goblinoids aren't scared of a four degree temperature increase, lemme tell ya.

Pinkskins out!
Gobbos forever! ....

This article has been bugging me for days. On the one hand, yes, the march was a useless waste of time. Any time you get permission to protest, it is a joke. The police isolate the area, and you get to preach to the choir while the decision makers sip champagne on the other side of town, and the news covers things as a traffic disruption. But the demand of purity in the article comes off as very distasteful and cultish. If you are going to take that attitude, you need to hold up some examples of success, or you are just whining.

Here is an article about the "unpermitted" march the next day:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/23/nyregion/climate-change-protesters-wall-s treet.html

The truth is that neither march made a real difference. I don't claim to know what would have made a difference, but pissing on someone else for not being pure enough comes off very badly in my opinion.


I would say it is just like healing in real life using technology. Some doctors can sew you up so there is barely a scar, and others slap it together and leave a mess.

If you want to apply mechanics to how battle scarred you look after healing, use the heal skill.

I would personally rather play in a game where combat actions had more then just a temporary mechanical effect. As long as it isn't the gm messing with you, it sounds interesting, and probably isn't more then a restoration spell away from being solved.


Wait. I thought EVERY day was coffee day?

I had the pleasure of meeting the most hardcore coffee drinker I have ever met. It had been an old WWII vet who drank a pot of coffee a day, and was still very active in his 80's. He still holds the title for an American. It was a fellow from Columbia who has been drinking coffee since his mother used to give it to him in a bottle. He drinks it with every meal, always is sipping a cup, and often has a cup before bed! At least his wife is a doctor.

But yeah, Java Beanie is one of my gods!


mutant origin: 2d20 ⇒ (13, 5) = 18
Plant empath


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Freehold DM wrote:
That should also be oops, not opps.

EDIT: Damn, Naughty by Nature! They destroyed my young mind!

Yeah, you know me...


Irontruth wrote:

Also, something that's bugging me....

indite = archaic word for writing or composing words
indict = to charge with a crime

Opps, thanks Irontruth.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

http://fox2now.com/2014/09/26/devin-james-public-relations-spokesperson-for -ferguson-fired/
"A statement from St. Louis Economic Development Partnership issued a statement Friday saying:

“We have asked Elasticity, our contracted communications firm, to release [spokesman] Devin James from his subcontractor role, due to a lack of transparency. While we admire his personal growth from difficult circumstances and commend him for his high quality work in Ferguson, it was the lack of information about his background that prompted us to make this move. Mr. James failed to inform us of his prior conviction. He also did not reveal this information to Elasticity when he was hired as a subcontractor. As of today, we are developing new vendor due diligence policies which we believe will prevent similar incidents in the future.”

According to the St. Louis Post Dispatch, James was being paid $154.10 an hour.
"

New idea... Stop wasting people's tax money on propaganda. If they did their jobs right in the first place, they wouldn't have to pay to cover up their actions.


HangarFlying wrote:

So basically you're saying that the officer should be locked up even if the evidence indicates that he shouldn't be...because the mob is always right?

You have to have faith in the system because if no one does, then the system no longer works. It's certainly not perfect, and there are systemic issues that need to be addressed, but it's important to remember that there are two sides to every story and both have a right to be heard.

Sorry if I am not understanding you correctly, but it sounds like you are confusing the grand jury with the criminal trial that sometimes follows.

A grand jury isn't for deciding guilt or innocence, and it is not where proof of innocence is presented. It is incredibly rare to even see the defendant, because it is basically a chance for the prosecutor to tear into the defendant with no option of defense counsel. The "system" you seem to be referencing will never be reached because right now the prosecutor seems to be actively working for the defense, so only the officers view is being presented.

A grand jury is basically a formality that only avoids trial in cases were the evidence is so lacking that there is not a reasonable chance the person may have committed the crime - a very low standard for indictment, especially when you consider that only something like 2/3's of the grand jurors have to agree. I would guess that over 90% of people brought before a grand jury are indited on all counts, and I'm willing to guess 99% of cases are voted on the day they are presented.

I don't know... maybe there is some brilliant legal maneuvering going on, but I just don't get it. It seems like a clear cut case of total BS, but I'm surprised that they would do it in such a way that everyone who has served grade jury would catch on to the scam.

Anyone out there know enough about grand juries to shine some light on this?


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thejeff wrote:

Just for the record: Darren Wilson testified to the grand jury, which just doesn't happen unless there's some kind of a deal. The defendant testifying without benefit of counsel when he can't be compelled to?

The prosecutor is also apparently not asking for any particular charges, but leaving it entirely up to the grand jury.

That bit about inditing a ham sandwich, it works the other way around too.

I had not heard that he testified... that sees really strange to me.

...searching...
" The St. Louis Post Dispatch reported that officer Wilson talked to grand jurors for four hours."
WTF? That is really weird! I have done grand jury, and I don't think I ever saw a defendant the whole time. We also indicted many people for serious crimes with about 5 minutes deliberation. I think about 95% of cases we were presented were indicted on all counts.
This whole thing is totally odd to me. Waiting until the middle of January in order to decided if there is enough evidence to go to trial? You have a dead body and an eyewitness, that would have been decided before lunch on every grand jury I have ever heard of.

EDIT: And one more thing, if one grand jury doesn't give you the results you want, you just bring him before another grand jury.

I think I could get this guy indicted in about 10 minutes. Any decent prosecutor should be able to do it in 5.

What the hell is wrong with these people?


The first thing that really struck me about this whole thing is that the video was released by a propaganda firm that is presumably paid for by the police department, presumably with taxpayer dollars. (If the money is coming from somewhere else, that would be very interesting!)

The video might have been nice a month or two ago, but now seem like too little, way too late. It also seems full of lame excuses, for problems that don't seem to happen in other cases.

The big problem is that the cop has not even been indicted yet. Grand Juries are kind of a joke, and the old saying is that it is so easy to indite someone that "you could indite a ham sandwich". The fact that the cop hasn't even been charged, and is even still collecting a paycheck, is a national disgrace!

No justice, No peace!

PS The Ferguson police have proven to be shameless lairs, who are bad at writing arrest reports. I could care less what the arrest reports written by those clowns say.


Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
Schools get tanks too!

Isn't this the same State where school security can't handle a bottle of pepper spray without having to make F-up payments to both sides?

On the lighter side, I'm sure MRAP abuse would result in some hilarious internet memes.


Yeah, but reproduction is only like 20% of what separates you from the constructs, undead, and other non-living things.

I'm in it for the consumption and excretion in addition to the passing on of DNA. Actually, since I don't really want kids, I guess I'm in it for the other stuff.

But yeah, much of our societal systems are set up around the reproduction part.


Wait. David Duke = Jesse Jackson, and Cornel West is crazy?

What did I miss?

I think many people hear 'white privilege' and think of the old Eddie Murphy SNL skit where he gets done up as a white person, and goes around getting free money from banks and stuff. I think it is far more subtle, and varies by situation, location, and many other factors.

I see it most obviously when I get involved with any court setting. There is almost always a disproportionate number of minorities coming up before the judge, and I think that starts with more getting pulled over and ends with more in jail. Having been before judges on several occasions, I'm always glad to be white and well spoken in those situations, although I know it isn't fair.

I don't have time at the moment, but the town I live in is 85+% white, and race is a factor in many aspects of life here.


National lawyers guild are always on the edge of First Amendment stuff.

National Lawyers Guild recent activity.


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"The Most Important Rule" wrote:
...Remember that these rules are yours. You can change them to fit your needs. Most Game Masters have a number of “house rules” that they use in their games.

I consider some minor house rules to be the way the game was intended to be played. Pathfinder is intend to be used to play games people enjoy, part of that is that it is customizable, because not everyone enjoys the game for the same reasons.

I change some of the rules and ignore some of the guidelines, but I can point to The Most Important Rule, and say that I'm playing exactly as the developers intended.


During the day, the 120 degree temperatures and lack of water should make any sane person stay clear.

A couple of Brass dragons with the vampire template should make it even more dangerous at night.

Also, great potential for story in how brass dragons acquired the vampire template. If full vampire template is too strong, consider making them spawn under control of a different type of vampire.


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

I usually hate dogs and horses, but...

[Clenched fist salute]

Loukanikos, the Greek anarchist dog photo gallery

BEST. DOG. EVER.

A dog like that could make Mayor or even Governor!

Check out the photo at the end of the article!

EDIT: Also, those Greeks don't mess around!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

NYTimes article about today's protest in Ferguson

"Organizers at the rally on Saturday called on demonstrators to drive on Interstate 70 and other area highways at 4:30 p.m. Monday, turn their hazard lights on and stop their vehicles for four and a half minutes to symbolize those four and a half hours that Mr. Brown’s body lay in the middle of the street."

Ugh. Mixing cars and protesting is a shady thing for a variety of reasons.

Best part is at the end of the article:
"As the march turned into the park, a few dozen protesters began chanting, “Ain’t no justice in the park!” out of frustration that the march was not moving on to the city police station. “If they stop here, a lot of people will feel misled,” said Trinette Buck, 40.

Organizers urged order, intimating that splitting up would not help the protest. But eventually a few did break off, then a few more, then many more walking the two miles along the road, drawing supportive honks along the way. Withing an hour, hundreds had convened outside the police station, chanting, holding signs and even directing traffic on the nearby streets while a line of police officers stood behind police tape.

“There is no fear anymore,” said Ms. Buck. “It’s either stand up or die.”

HELL YEAH!


I agree with Deadmanwalking. If you are going to have an additional party member you control, it should be something in the background like a healing/defense character, and it should be the weakest member of the party.

The best advice I can give is to start off slow in terms of party power. Many first time GMs think it would be a good idea to give away power from the beginning of the game. This often involves high point buy, high wealth/magic items, and allowing many race, class, spell, etc. options. This may make first level more fun, but by the time the group is fifth level, they are blowing apart encounters. Start with the basics, and allow the players to slowly accumulate power.

I recommend 15 or 20 point buy, with no starting stat below 8 or above 17 after racial adjustment. Only core rulebook classes, races, feats, etc. A explicit agreement that all PCs treat each other as allies and comrades. If you are make an opposed check or attack against a fellow PC, your character becomes and NPC. I also don't allow PCs to be psychos, loners, idiots, or any character that doesn't belong in a group.

I would also include an agreement not to specialize in action-denial character builds. A little is OK, but if every encounter involves a PC tripping, color spraying, or holding the enemy, things get boring real fast.

You might also want to start off with a limited campaign (say 1-4 level) with an agreement to either continue, or reboot at that point.

Good luck, and have fun!


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And one more!

Wow! This guy is a lunatic! I don't know if this has been posted before, but yeow!

The scary thing is that he is part of some organization, the "Oath Keepers", where you can just say that crazy stuff, and it seems like no one blinks an eye. I watched about three minutes of the video, and had to shut it off. I can't imagine sitting through an hour of that BS.


LazarX wrote:
If you were never arraigned, you weren't charged with anything. Not an unknown thing to happen in mass arrests at events like this.

I was finally brought before a judge at about the 26 hour mark, and charged with 3 violations and a misdemeanor.

EDIT: Here is a post that tells what happened

LazarX wrote:
You can be arrested and held for up to 24 hours, then at that point you MUST be either arraigned or cut loose.

Yeah, NYC screwed that one up, that was one of many things that led to the class action settlement victory. Some people were held for up to 72 hours before seeing a judge that week.

Here is an article about it.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Auxmaulous wrote:

Yet according to the link you posted it was a protest. Critical Mass is a left-wing cyclist movement/gathering - which was gathering at the RNC.

You can discuss or argue about police treatment and how they handled the situation - don't lie about the premise, it just makes your overall argument look disingenuous.

It is called many different things by many different people, from a parade, procession, caravan, protest, etc. Having been pulled into the legal side of things, I was going by the definition used by Justice Stallman, who noted, "Federal Court Judge William Pauley] held that participation in the Critical Mass bicycle rides constitutes ‘expressive association’ entitled to First Amendment protection.” While it may seem like splitting hairs, from a legal perspective, it can make a big difference in what laws and protections apply.

Since we are getting specific about things, critical mass had been happening every month in NYC for about 10 years before the RNC came to town. During that time, there was almost no police attention. In 2003 NYC hosted "Bike Summer" and critical mass was a listed event on a calendar put out by the city. Those rides were some of the best, with thousands of riders of all types and a great vibe. The August 2004 ride took place days before the RNC started, and had been scheduled years before the RNC. Since then the police have spent millions and millions of dollars to crack down on a bicycle ride. The city has also spent many millions of dollars in legal fees and court settlements. I have personally been followed by a police helicopter, and seen dozens and dozens of cops and all manner of equipment every month for YEARS!

Krensky- Sorry you seem to have had a bad experience with CM. I find the streets bring out the worst in some people, regardless of if they are on a bike, motorcycle, car, truck, or shoes. As nice as it would be to have more of a structure to control what happens during CM, in NYC at least the police have made it clear that anyone associating themselves with CM will be targeted. Despite the problems with CM, I am reminded at times like this of a memorial ride I went on several years ago. After visiting about a dozen different locations where cyclists had been killed in the past year, we gathered at the steps of city hall for some speeches. One of the speakers was the father of a young child had recently been killed. He wrapped up his speech by saying that next year, instead of marching on the sidewalks, they would take over the street! A few folks who I knew from CM and I exchanged nervous glances, as we knew what the reality of doing that entailed. We knew that when it really came down to it, people were quite willing to trade many dead children and adults for the convenience of the automobile. I have come to grips that I too am willing to shrug off many deaths rather then walk, ride, or take public transport, but I don't hold it against people who make an effort to minimize the negative effects of the automobile, even if their methods are not above reproach.

It is important to remember that many aspects of our lives have rare but serious consequences. Police are no exception. Everyone wants to stop crime, but armed and militarized police are going to result in more dead children and adults. Just like traffic, it is accepted as a fact of life, but keep in mind that without effort (effort that may not be perfect), it could be a whole lot worse.

EDIT: At this hour, ten years ago , I had spent the night in the filthy Pier 57, was loaded onto a prison bus and driven to "the tombs". I spent the afternoon waiting on that parked bus, chained to my friend and several others. My "arresting officer" was not there, and only he was allowed to take me off the bus and into the jail. At some point late in the day he arrived, and we were finally taken in for fingerprints, bathroom access, mug shots, really bad bologna sandwiches, and finally access to phones. Still hadn't seen a lawyer or had a chance to wash my hands. Still didn't know what I was charged with.


6 people marked this as a favorite.

Ten years ago on this very night, about about this exact time, is when I got arrested. It wasn't even a protest, but the overblown policing thing was in full effect that week in New York because of the Republican Convention.

Here is video of the scene on the street where I was later arrested. I'm the guy in the orange shirt who is "assisted" into the scene by the NYPD at 1:55. The guy on the ground at about the 5 minute mark is my friend who was 16 years old at the time. A day of horrible detention followed. After many years in court, I was awarded a $1,000 as part of a class action lawsuit settlement, but here we are ten years later, and I haven't seen a dime.

I hope the people of Ferguson get faster compensation for having their rights violated.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

As much as I like the idea of a jail "sit-in", I think that tactic stopped working once we entered the tough-on-crime era. The problem is that detaining people, especially for a period of a few days, is just not that expensive. It gets even cheaper if you do a really half-assed and crappy job of running a prison. I don't think you could ask people to spend more then a day or two under those conditions. Also, I'm guessing that since 9/11, they aren't strapped for cash. If they really need the money, Homeland SSecurity would love the chance to erect some new detention facilities.

Sadly, it seems like none of the politicians from the president to their local council are are aligning themselves with the people of Ferguson, and many are aligning with the police. I think the police will back off until the spotlight fades, then it's payback time for making them look bad!


pres man wrote:
Ferguson P.D. doesn't have that many African-Americans.

I wasn't aware that they were the only department operating in Ferguson these past two weeks.

I'm not asking anyone to take my experiences as evidence. If you care about it one way or another, look for yourself. You will find numerous examples of the police and prosecutors "busting" anarchists, but then getting laughed out of court.

This isn't some new thing or isolated case. This has been going on for at least ten years now, and is very well documented.

"[Missouri State Sen. Maria Chappelle-Nadal] reported that there was an “outside influence” causing some of the unrest in Ferguson. “We’re going to have to find ways to calm down this community while getting out some of the negative impact. And we have anarchists here, which we do not welcome in this community” she said. Chappelle-Nadal also seemed to agree with Carlson’s assertion that some of the protesters were from “out of town.” "

Miami Model:
**Public relations, "information warfare", newspeak/spin:**
"terrorists/violent protesters coming" vs "well trained officers".
"event meaningful target for terrorism."
"police will protect the right to protest."
"anarchists and criminal elements", dramatic Seattle WTO or London imagery.
display of confiscated "weapons" prove malintent.
"unpermitted protests can continue" due to police good will.
independent media targeted, cameras, video confiscated.


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Quark Blast wrote:


As far as Fergietown? Don't know. Other than the mayor and governor upping the anti with the protesters (and rioters - lets face it, there were anarchists types in the crowd who had no other purpose in mind than fomenting destruction) by their dictator-state paramilitary declarations, I don't know what went wrong.

Just a quick note: "Out of town anarchists taking over local protest groups and plotting violent destruction" - is a made up fantasy. It is propaganda the cops use before every protest, but it's just a lie designed to justify police excess. I have known many anarchists, and they are generally planning a vegan sausagefest, not mayhem. Most are highly politically aware, and understand that engaging the police in violence is exactly what the police want, not what the protestors want. People don't go to protests if their goal is just to destroy stuff or steal without political motivation- too many cops around, and almost no other protesters will tolerate it. Furthermore, people never bring weapons to protests. Before every major protest, the police raid some "anarchist hideout" and claim to find all manner of "weapons", but it is BS. They find kitchen knives and hammers and all the other stuff that is in every kitchen and garage in the world.

There are a small number of people who attend protests with the plan to spray paint, smash windows, or engage in similar property damage, but I have never heard of anyone attending a protest with plans to assault the police - never.

The bottom line is that protest is about getting heard and drawing attention to a cause. Property damage is one of the best means of drawing mainstream attention. Like it or not, it works. Jesus did it, the 'founding fathers' did it, Gandhi did it, and virtually every protest event that has ever succeeded has done it, or maintained the real threat of it.

Oh yeah, there is one group who practices for violence and comes equipped with all manner of weapons - the cops. If you want to find out-of-towners looking to turn things violent, look no further then the police!


houstonderek wrote:

Fergie,

If you're planning on committing a crime,...

Who snitched? It is ok though, I'm not planning on getting caught!

My only experience with jail is in NYC. During the RNC they put us in Pier 57 - a filthy bus depot with chainlink cages topped with razorwire. Then Central Booking, or "The Tombs". The tombs were depressing and the food was really bad, but I did not spend enough time there or mix with the regulars enough to get a real idea about the place.


Comrade Anklebiter, do you still have a PS2 for gaming?

If so, PM me your address.


The 8th Dwarf wrote:
Europe is not a monolithic entity and while some Western European countries have reasonably humane systems - would you choose a Russian, Ukrainian or an Albainian prison over an American one.

Do I get to pick what State in America?


"In the war of the races, I'll side with the bears"
-Edward Abbey

More
music
to riot by:

Public enemy - Fight the Power

Dr.Dre - The day the niggaz took over

Frank Zappa - Trouble Every Day

The Goats - TV Cops

And on the subject of the "N-word"
Public enemy - I Don't Wanna Be Called Yo Niga


In NYC there is a pretty cool group called 100 Blacks in Law Enforcement Who Care.

They are the ones who are willing to break with the "official" police propaganda, and speak truth to power. I have real respect for these guys (and ladies) as they catch hell for being black, being cops, and being cops who speak the truth (especially when it comes to other members of the NYPD. I'm guessing that Ferguson doesn't have a similar group, and could really use one right now!

So 100, out of 30,000... It's a start. But more seriously, there is a segment of the NYPD that is very scary. They were once part of the special Street Crime Unit (motto: "We Own The Night"), until it got shut down for all kinds of bad stuff. The white shirts (upper level cops) use them as a tool, often in very inappropriate situations. My point is that like in most large groups, most people are fairly apathetic/distracted, and there are others at both ends of the spectrum. What seems to make the most difference is how the people in command use each end of the spectrum.

PS I was also out in Guttenberg, Iowa last month, and hung out with a really nice cop. The County she was in is the hardest hit by meth in the country, but she still treated the people she interacted with link human beings.


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

(update) Reds, Rioting, and how it Really is!

The Four R's of the Goblin Reeducation Camp. (The fourth R is for Reeducation)

How about the Peekskill riot of 49! Happened in my backyard, when Paul Robeson had a concert that was attacked by stone throwing mobs. The police basically watched as yokels formed a gauntlet of stone throwing rednecks miles long as concert goers fled back to NYC. When they were going to have a second concert, they found several white snipers in trees planning to assassinate Paul Robeson.

1949 Peekskill Riots

My town used to have a communist enclave in my town, but I heard from a prominent local socialist and international activist, and photographer, that it has dwindled down to only a couple of old school Communists.

But I often think of this incident as an example of people in desperate need of police assistance. Some times, riot gear is needed. Law enforcement should be used to protect peoples right to protest, not stop them from protesting. I try to keep it in mind that the cop poking me with his billy club might be needed when the drunk rednecks show up...

On the other hand, the cops are usually the ones driving the pick up trucks.

EDIT: I just realized that I was arrested on the 55th anniversary of the first concert/riot. To think that people were having that same sickly crowd violence and fear feeling over half a century before. Weird.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

OK, as fun as the Gangsta Rap stuff is, I have to share a link that is one of the best things I have ever seen on the internet or anywhere else. I wish it was not so relevant, but sadly, these words have never been more needed then they are right now.

Sgt. Shamar Thomas vs the NYPD

I hate to ruin my well established tough-guy image, but I have to admit shedding a tear the first times I watched this.

Please watch this and show a friend.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:

Here's the full article: Washington Post: "I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me."

First of all, Fukc that asshoel!

I would also point out that he is a the perfect poster child for the LAPD. If you want to know why they are one of the most hated police departments in the world, THAT's why! What to know the opposite of correct police behavior - LAPD.

Their behavior was the inspiration to an entire genre of music:
Cop Killa - Ice Tea

F~~& tha Police - NWA

Guerrillas in tha mist - Paris

(I would have linked "Coffee Donuts and Death, but the intro to that song is a little too harsh to link in a public forum. But almost every song by Paris is about cops and racial injustice.)

LAPD sucked 20+ years ago when all these songs were made, and I don't think much has changed.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Fake Healer wrote:
The police are responding to people who are violating the law, not peaceful protesters.

But legally, you can violate the law and still be a peaceful protester. Or more accurately, the law applies differently when you are exercising your constitutional rights. The police can take actions based on there opinions, but whether they are legal or not is up to a judge to decided just as it is up to a judge to decide if the protesters actions are legal. In almost every major protest event like this that uses the Miami Model, the actions of the police fail to pass the threshold for legality. I would say that as a general rule, the police always lose a class action lawsuit (ask me how I know...).

Again, "being part of a crowd" does not make it legal for the police to take action against you. Individual probable cause is required for every charge a person is accused of. Using force against a person who is not reasonably suspected of a specific crime is no more lawful for a police officer then for you or I.

EDIT: Thanks for the good discussion everyone, see you tomorrow.


ShadowcatX wrote:


Less of a difference than you might think actually. Even criminals have rights.

While I agree with your statement, I don't think having rights prevents them from being violated. If someone can violate your rights with near impunity then "having rights" becomes almost meaningless.

EDIT: To apply that to the people of Ferguson- Do they have a right to peacefully assemble, if police interfere with them when they attempt to exercise that right? Do the people need to be granted permission from the police in order to exercise their rights?

vvv Agree vvv


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Fake Healer wrote:

Sorry, you can't break the law as a way of protesting the police. You follow the legal rules in place to protest or you risk being treated as...GASP...a criminal.

Here is the tricky part: Laws apply differently to protests then they do to other disturbances. This often gets into the greyer areas of the law, and here is a surprise to many people- many cops are not very familiar with the details of the law. Many cops don't know the fine line of when some some laws may be applied and some many not. {Note: Not a slam on cops here, you can be a good cop without knowing the letter of the law.]

However, when a large scale operation like what is happening in Ferguson is going down, it is a forgone conclusion that the police should operate by legally approved guidelines. In Ferguson the police seem to be operating by a different set of instructions, and it is very important to know who is authorizing this stuff, and whether it follows protocol or goes against it.

I should also point out that cops don't have the power to designate you a criminal, nor are they allowed to sentence you. Police are not supposed to treat you like a "criminal", they are supposed to treat you like a suspect, and there is a big difference!

Finally, I've done all manner of marches, protests, demonstrations, vigils, etc. Some small, some with over a million people. They are a joke. A circle-jerk. They hardly do a damn thing. The media covers you as a traffic disturbance, and says your message was incoherent. The cops spy on you, film you beat and arrest you. The politicians ignore it or pay it lip service, then do whatever they were going to do anyway. If anyone has a better idea to get real change, I'm open to hearing it. Until then, I stand by whatever way the people of Ferguson want to stand up to the unlawful actions of the police. I won't go so far as to say I support people looting, but I have more respect for them then the cops and suck-up politicians.


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If we are talking about a "criminal element" in Ferguson, I'm looking at the guys driving military vehicles and throwing tear gas and stun grenades around.

I can watch those videos and see law breaking galore, but it is mostly the police committing the crimes. On the non-police side I see pictures of some looting, what look to be a couple of arson related events and property destruction, and lots of minor traffic stuff, as well as what I'm guessing is a fair amount of public drunkenness. From the Police, I see some very serious civil rights violations, and a whole lot of "continuum of force" violations. Most troublesome is a very obvious failure to secure individual probable cause before using force, including less-lethal weaponry.

Even if people are throwing some rocks and bottles (pretty much the definition of riot) it doesn't justify taking actions against the general population. Even in riotous situations, the law does not recognize guilt-by-association.

The police are acting in an illegal manner, and citizens are not required to obey orders the police are not allowed by law to make. Either the police can back off and get someone in there with creditability, or they can keep having a turf war with locals. The protestors are the ones who are going to be winning the court cases when all of this gets shaken out in the courts*.

*Assuming there is substantial national public attention.


HarbinNick wrote:
Just looters. I think shooting a few looters would stop the others. It would make you stop thinking "free stuff" and start thinking "stay home and live".

"Stay home and live" -I would rather protest in the street then live like a coward.


“With these additional resources in place,” said Mr. Nixon, a Democrat in his second term, “the Missouri State Highway Patrol and local law enforcement will continue to respond appropriately to incidents of lawlessness and violence, and protect the civil rights of all peaceful citizens to make their voices heard.

Someone needs to slap this guy in the back of the head if he thinks these idiots are acting "appropriately".

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/12/michael-brown-protests_n_5672163.h tml

I can't watch that video without thinking, "Steroids it, all you steroids steroids! Steroids it!".

EDIT: Anyone have video of this scene?:
https://twitter.com/EliKMBC/status/501591669679329280/photo/1


Here is a link to the article describing how the police edited video in the cases I was involved with:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/12/nyregion/12video.html
That video editing, and the article that came exposed it were the reason my charges were dropped.

Also, the original charge against me was Disorderly Conduct for... Blocking traffic!

The cops aren't very original with this stuff.


ShadowcatX wrote:
What are the outcomes everyone hopes comes out of this?

Much more scrutiny of military responses to protests.

More racial/class equality and understanding.

But I'm not holding my breath. These kind of events can usually be spun to support any agenda.


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Aranna wrote:
Shouldn't we try now to see all the sides (and there are more than two) and work to rebuild trust? If the sides cling to distrust then this will happen again at some point.

I find this idea or rebuilding trust troublesome, at least without some drastic consequences. Everything about this incident, and the build up to it has injustice written all over it. Why in the world would the people trust these cops?

Also, our countries founding documents are all about NOT having to trust your government. You don't have a 2nd Amendment because you have faith in your government. You have it so that The People control the government, and not the other way around. Good government is derived through transparency, not blind faith. Right winger types should be all over that idea, and I think they would be if it were white people resisting their government.

EDIT: Not to say that I disagree with what I think your point is Aranna, just that changes, big changes need to be made for it to happen.

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