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Hand of the Inheritor

Fergie's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 1,663 posts (1,685 including aliases). No reviews. 1 list. No wishlists. 4 aliases.


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You should prepare yourself by listening to the the Joy of Sex Album!

Here is a video if you don't happen to have it on vinyl.

Damn. No one should ever have to go through anything like that.

I'm so sorry.

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I don't know, now that things have gotten serious, I think we have to pretend that Goblins do it in a refined and dignified way, in a secure non disclosed location.

I think part of the premiss was that there isn't operating power plants, or power transmitting infrastructure, and you can't just mail order stuff on amazon anymore. Batteries haven't been produced in years, nor have any electronics. Even if you could just contact someone far away, you don't know who they are or what their motives are. The character in the book always left his radio on, in case there was a trickle of electricity, but when it did crackle to life, it was almost always some doomsday preacher ranting and raving.

Maybe the guy in the next town over did have a ham radio, but he might not let everyone know.

Also in the book folks were more concerned about getting a windmill or waterwheel working to feed themselves, rather then dealing with media.

thejeff wrote:

How does Kunstler think we get back to the 1800s? As I understand it, we couldn't support a fraction of today's population with that kind of society and infrastructure. A population crash of that magnitude would be ugly. I have a lot of trouble seeing how we stop at the 1800s.

The book doesn't talk much about exactly what happened, but I think it involved some catastrophic stuff on the coasts, followed by famine, disease, and lots of hardship. One of the themes of the book is that information beyond word-of-mouth just isn't available. People might know about the next town over, but not much beyond that. Centralized government, schools, health, etc. are non-existent. Most people are forced into subsistence agriculture, and most of the day is spent getting food, water and the basics of survival.

This summer I biked across Iowa, and can tell you that there is no shortage of farmland available. If it was used to grow the most nutritious food, not cornsyrup and cattlefeed, it could probably feed the world. Without tractors it would take a tremendous amount of labor, but there isn't much else to do after society fails.

I don't think the Mad Max world will ever really happen because running things like cars and oil refineries requires more then a good set of hand tools. Without modern manufacturing, you just can't produce the massive amounts of crap required to keep a car running, much less a big ass factory or refinery.

These days, everything is so full of electronics it won't survive a damp weekend, much less an EMP burst.

I think we are now living in a decline of cheap energy. That sounds strange to say when oil is $50 a barrel, but post peak oil is not about running out of oil, it is about running out of consistently cheap oil. Oil prices are expected to fluctuate wildly, which historically wrecks industrial economies.

The most thoughtful and entertaining book about post-collapse life is James Howard Kunstler's World Made By Hand. The super quick summary is that things go back to a lifestyle similar to the 1800's, not Burning Man.

I would also take a look at what happened in North Korea about 10-20 years ago. It is amazing what happens when the coal doesn't reach the powerplant, and the cascading effects of scarcity.

kestral287 wrote:

Because the odds are very, very good that the Fighter won't be decently built. That's the idea behind the thread.

Just promise everybody (not just the Fighter) a one-time rebuild and you should be good.

In my opinion, there is a big difference between decently built, and optimized. If the fighter has a good strength, decent dex and con, and doesn't dump wis, he will be off to a good start. If he has power attack and the option to use a two handed weapon or a great shield and full plate, he is going to kick ass in melee. A composite long bow, and he will be good at ranged. That is really all it takes to be a viable combatant.

You don't need to win the DPR Olympics or have a specific set of feats, you just have to not deliberately gimp yourself or attempt some kind of bare knuckle brawler using core. If he has full plate and two handed or sword and board, he won't have a problem.

DOH! Just saw this post. Unfortunately, I've got a nice cold going on right now and can't accomplish much. I would be more then happy to protest with her, but I should warn you that I have an awful record of keeping people out of police hands. Back when I was doing CM every month, getting asked to escort someone, or inviting them to CM resulted in them getting grabbed.

Anyway, it looks like things are going to be F'f up in NYC for a while now, so I'm not sure what the future will hold.

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Back when we were in middle school, one of my friends came up with the line:
What do you do with a drunken sailor, send him to Exxon to pilot a tanker!
At the time it was very topical.

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Ms. Pleiades wrote:
The entire affair is soiled by having failed to roll the miss chance. That cheapens the karmic backlash, and leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

Not to mention that when you are blind, you can't even locate your enemy without a whooping perception check. Second, the "flash of insight" ability: "Once per day as an immediate action, a cyclops can peer into an occluded visual spectrum of possible futures,... tough to see visual things without eyes.

As much as I love it when a cheater gets smacked down, I can't help but feel "Rob" got shafted in this case.

But the whole 24 charisma monk thing is really hilarious!

Arachnofiend wrote:
Fergie wrote:

"So there will be about half evil and half neutral baddies IIRC."

So the paladin and fighter should be about on par then...

Yeah... no. The Paladin can still buff himself and heal his allies, as well as being overall much sturdier than the Fighter due to having astronomically better saving throws. The Paladin is still a really good class against neutral enemies, he just loses some damage.

OK, sure the paladin is a little better, but the fighter benefits in many ways by having the paladin around. Also, whenever the paladin isn't smiting, the fighter should be able to do more damage. He also has enough feats to switch between melee and ranged, have a better AC, iron will, improved initiative and some nice stuff like quick draw. The fighter should have a better strength, dex, con and/or wis. He also has class abilities that allow him to boost his AC, attack, and damage, as well as movement.

I just don't see why a decently built fighter can't keep up.

MagusJanus wrote:
There's no way not to connect this to the protests at this point, considering the hashtags used. And given his post, it sounds like he wasn't done killing yet; he only got half his targets.

If the connection to protesting against racism and police abuse of power is "#RIPErivGardner", I'm not willing to accept that he is anymore representative of the protesting then he is of representing Conney Island (one of his other hashtags).

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As many a wise person on these threads has said:

Flag it and move on.

When did he reference the Garner case?

MagusJanus wrote:
Pretty much? By all evidence, this was to do with the protests and very much about race.

Please reference the evidence you speak of.

I read both articles, and I saw ZERO evidence.

What evidence are you talking about?

The New York Post is for entertainment purposes only, and is not to be taken literally.


noun: reciprocity

the practice of exchanging things with others for mutual benefit, especially privileges granted by one country or organization to another.

"So there will be about half evil and half neutral baddies IIRC."

So the paladin and fighter should be about on par then...

I'm not sure this is going to be a big problem. Also, if the Paladin chooses a mount who isn't always around, that will dilute his power somewhat as well.

I would suggest working with the players so that the fighter has his niche. If he is a rush into the middle kind of player, how about a tower shield high defenses build? He can be almost un-hit-able, and still deal OK damage, or drop the shield, and do whooping damage. If he uses a high crit weapon, he will be a real threat. I saw a build like this played 1-10 levels, and it worked very well.

TriOmegaZero wrote:


TOZ wrote:
Never watched it, actually.

That is how we can tell you are a replicant!

I would like to die while riding my bicycle. Doesn't matter much if it is on road, or mountain biking, although I would rather die in the woods then get whacked by some car in a strip mall or something.

There is a week long ride across Iowa every year called RAGBRAI that involves something like 30,000 riders. Every year there are a few weddings, probably a few hundred kids conceived, and a couple of deaths. I can't help but feel like those people had good deaths. I would rather die doing what I love, rather then staring up at florescent lights.

Fergurg wrote:
I'm not; I genuinely don't understand. From the statements of ShinHakkaider, he hates the country he lives in, hates the people he lives around, and is afraid for his son's life. This isn't a "my country is flawed" or even a "this country has big problems that need to be fixed." He emphasized by using the Internet version of yelling that he has hatred toward this country and its people. Yet he stays. He is raising his son in the country he hates, surrounded by people he hates, and, yes, teaching that hate to his son. ...more...

I should stay out of this, but here goes...

Please point out where he is teaching his son to hate... I couldn't find anything of the sort.
ShinHakkaider wrote:
"The amount of pure HATRED I feel for my countrymen and this country in general because I have to prepare him like this at such a young age is maddening."

Emphasis added. I suggest you re-read ShinHakkaider post, then adjust your questions to what it actually says. As it is, your questions seem out of line.

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EntrerisShadow wrote:
Strong words

While I don't disagree, I feel that there is a time and place. Paizo has been kind enough to host our conversation here, and as their guests, it is only right that while under their roof, we adhere to their rules. What I might say in Paizo's store or message boards is different then what I might say on the street in front.

I would also say that talking to people on the internet is of very limited value when trying to change things, although I admit I don't have a clue what the best way to enact positive change really is.

I have found that shutting down peoples ideas or insulting them (saying this in general not toward you) generally makes people more entrenched and less open minded. If you want to influence or enlighten someone, you generally have to connect with them, and the easiest way is to listen to their viewpoint first. Yeah, sometimes you have to sit through some ignorant BS, but at least it gives you a frame of reference for the conversation. You can't change someones mind for them, but you can help them change it themselves.

I would just like to interject that respect is EARNED not given. I don't respect the office, the title, the badge, the Law, the uniform or anything else that can be bought or sold. As far as I'm concerned, the rejection of authority granted by god or the Crown was the best reason the US fought the Revolutionary War.

In my everyday dealings with people I try to treat everyone with dignity and respect. The guy mopping the floor gets the same treatment as the police or the guy in the fancy suit.

Police wield vast amounts of legal power and weaponry, but that is all. They don't have god, morality, history, or reputation on their side. If a cop gives you an order that they are not legally permitted to give*, you have no responsibility to obey it. In fact, out of respect for the people who have fought and died for our rights and freedoms, I would say the patriotic thing would be to NOT tolerate police abuse of power.

Disobeying the police can and does have tragic consequences, but it often has legal and moral backing.

*You better be 100% sure about the legality, and many issues are not clear cut.

EDIT: BNW you are correct, a young black male is 2,100% more likely to be fatily shot then their white counterparts. I first thought 2,100% when I wrote the post, but just kind of couldn't believe it. I thought I must have been mistaken, I must have messed up somehow, but damn.
Here are some more shocking statistics:
US statistics about race

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Fergurg wrote:

It is about whether or not it is acceptable to automatically assume that police killings are motivated by racism.

Given that young black men are 210% more likely to be shot dead by police then whites, I would say it would be criminally negligent not to question race as a motivating factor in police killings.

Chris Lambertz wrote:
Good Stuff

Sorry about the Kool Aid Man thing. One of my first jobs as a graphic designer was working on some Kool Aid stuff (~1994 god I'm old), and I have always had a special place in my heart for that massive sugary monster. The idea of that version of the Kool Aid man was very funny to me, but I did not consider how it might be viewed in the context of the thread. Sorry about that.

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Fergurg wrote:
You mean it's possible that a black man could be shot by a cop for a reason other than "Police just hate black people"?


The police could think a black person is more likely to become violent.
The police could think a black person is better able to resist or withstand force.
The police could think a black person is more likely to be committing a crime.
The police could think a black person is less able to respond to verbal commands.
The police could think a black person is better at fighting or using a weapon.
The police could think a black person is more likely to be armed.
The police could think a black person is less likely to respond to a summons.
The police could think a black person is less likely to win a court settlement against them.
The police could think a black person is less likely to be missed by the community.

None of these are as simple as "just hate black people", but they are all things that make it more dangerous for black people dealing with police. White people don't have to even consider any of this when dealing with police.

EDIT: I should note that it is not just the police who may think these things. Sadly, these thoughts can come from all aspects of society, including black cops and other black people.

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When I was arrested in NYC back in 2004, it was interesting how differently we were treated by the NYPD, compared with the corrections officers. The NYPD were very nasty and acted like we had personally insulted their mothers while dealing with us. The corrections officers were very different, just doing their jobs without getting aggressive or seeming to really care one way or another.

I found out years later that the NYPD had put out all kinds of misinformation about the bike riders and protesters that week. They told their officers false information about the reason for the ride and protests, and worked up all kinds of stories about out-of-town anarchists, hell bent on destruction.

The end result was NYC losing the largest protest related settlement in history, although my arrest was over 10 years ago, and I still haven't seen a dime.

Vets derail:

Krensky wrote:

I vehemently object to his earlier statement that "Vets ARE more dangerous and crazy then the general population," followed up by three random famous criminals who were veterans.

That followed by his use of First Blood as evidence of anything makes it all very suspect.

Sorry to offend Krensky. I should have chosen my words more carefully, as I did NOT intend to say that all, most, or even the vast majority of vets are dangerous and crazy. My point was that vets are much more likely then the civilian population to suffer from addiction, PTSD and similar mental problems (as well as physical injuries). They are also likely to have trouble dealing with the phoneyness and tedium of modern life after being in a warzone. Vets are also trained in a way that makes them highly dangerous to the enemy, and if those skills are used in inappropriate situations, the results could be catastrophic.

I brought up First Blood to break the tension, but also because the ending scene is very apt to this discussion, and I thought Stallone did a great job of conveying the emotion of the scene.

" Trautman: You did everything to make this private war happen. You've done enough damage. This mission is over, Rambo. Do you understand me? This mission is over! Look at them out there! Look at them! If you won't end this now, they will kill you. Is that what you want? It's over Johnny. It's over!
Rambo: Nothing is over! Nothing! You just don't turn it off! It wasn't my war! You asked me, I didn't ask you! And I did what I had to do to win! But somebody wouldn't let us win! And I come back to the world and I see all those maggots at the airport, protesting me, spitting. Calling me baby killer and all kinds of vile crap! Who are they to protest me? Who are they? Unless they've been me and been there and know what the hell they're yelling about!
Trautman: It was a bad time for everyone, Rambo. It's all in the past now.
Rambo: For *you*! For me civilian life is nothing! In the field we had a code of honor, you watch my back, I watch yours. Back here there's nothing!
Trautman: You're the last of an elite group, don't end it like this.
Rambo: Back there I could fly a gunship, I could drive a tank, I was in charge of million dollar equipment, back here I can't even hold a job *parking cars*

Krensky wrote:

Because I wasn't talking about police shootings vs civilian shootings. I was pointing out that Fergie's evidence for the his claim that military veterans are dangerous crazies waiting to snap was ridiculous.

My point was that Vets had a higher percentage of problems then the civilian population, and thus may needed special assistance merging back into civilian life. Most vets probably do just fine, have no issues, and everything is great, but that is not the case for all of them. Given their military training and experience, we have an obligation to help them.

It's all there in Rambo - First Blood.

Just a quick friendly reminder to everyone:

"The Gaming Community
...You may find yourself in a debate on our messageboards, and disagreements are bound to happen. Focus on challenging the idea, rather than the others in the conversation. Remember that there’s another person on the other side of the screen. Please help us keep it fun!


Posts or threads made solely to provoke a strong negative reaction or conflict do not contribute to the inviting place we’d like our community to be. Threads with provocative titles will be locked, and posts removed as necessary."

thejeff wrote:
Michael Brown is accused of assaulting a cop and "going for his gun" when the cop drew the gun to shoot him.

define: accused "charge (someone) with an offense or crime."

Not to split hairs, but Officer Wilson's claims are not an accusation in the context of a court setting.

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Anti-OSCE Protesters Clash With Riot Police in Switzerland
from Vice News

I saw the second-to-last photo in the article, and thought of you!

I like how they were not only spray painting F--k the OSCE, but they even had a F--K OFF banner that seemed to be of very high quality!

I also like the last paragraph or two. With children's songs like that, no wonder the Swiss know how to protest!

PRD - "Her alignment, however, may restrict her from casting certain spells opposed to her moral or ethical beliefs; see chaotic, evil, good, and lawful spells."
"A cleric can't cast spells of an alignment opposed to her own or her deity's (if she has one). Spells associated with particular alignments are indicated by the chaotic, evil, good, and lawful descriptors in their spell descriptions."

So you want to use a wand to cast a spell that is against your deities moral or ethical beliefs?

I would not want to be standing there between heaven and hell with my heart and a feather on the scale, trying to explain that "the wand was the one who did that not me."

Kthulhu wrote:
Gee, they deal with the worst scum of humanity on a day-to-day basis. I can't understand why some of them become cynical.

I don't know whether to make a lawyer joke, a cop joke, or what here... Soooo many options!

More derail:

Krensky wrote:

Correlation does not equal causation Fergie, and you haven't even shown that. Just as many, heck, more violent crimes have been committed by civilians.

Also, there are massive differences in kind between those three events that make linking them together ridiculous.

Just out of curiosity, what things are known to cause crime as opposed to just correlate with crime rates? I can't think of any myself.

As I have said before, there are no statistics for who commits crimes, only who gets accused or convicted of them.
"No one knows how many veterans are incarcerated, but the most recent survey, compiled by the Department of Justice’s Bureau of Justice Statistics in 2004, found that nearly one in 10 inmates in U.S. jails had prior military service. Extrapolated to the total prison population, this means that approximately 200,000 veterans were behind bars."
From, terans-become-criminals.html

Note: I just pulled three examples of former military committing famous crimes off the top of my head. The broad range of crime type and time span indicates that the issue itself is vast. Pick a major famous murder spree or other major tragic event, and there is a surprising good chance that the person involved had military training. Another example- the guy who shot those people from the clock tower. The military gives people training and experience to do things that are often criminal when done outside of a war setting. Is it really so odd to question what they do with these skills after they leave the military?

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Krensky wrote:

And before anyone says it I am not saying that vets are dangerous or violent or crazy, just that PTSD is a real problem we still don't take seriously enough that is one of many factors at play.

Not to derail the thread,

Military derail:
but there is a connection between military service and committing some of the worst crimes in our nations history. Tim McVeigh, Lee Harvey Oswald, the DC sniper, etc. Vets ARE more dangerous and crazy then the general population, and I think it would be a great thing to take better care of the people we train to kill. I think military personnel have special rights and special responsibilities that are different then civilians. It might also be good to ask why many questionable military tactics are taught to foreign military personnel. This was part of the US drive to use "dirty tactics" against insurgents in Iraq, a counterinsurgency doctrine known as "fighting terror with terror," and one that had previously been exercised by the US in other theaters, including Vietnam and El Salvador

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I have a fair amount of experience with NYC cops, and there are several things that influence their behavior. I suspect that some of these behaviors are most prominent in NYC, but exist in different degrees in other parts of the country.

Police feel that they are "under siege" not just from criminals (many of whom do have ill intent), but also politicians, voters, protestors, courts, their bosses (whiteshirts), their union, etc. In many respects most cops are the lowest rung on the government ladder and have a culture of feeling persecuted. Naturally, the people who perceive themselves to be at the bottom are always looking to put someone under them.

This might be more specific to NYC, but the NYPD view themselves as the front line in the "War on Terror". But since there is absolutely nothing they can do in this respect, they end up acting in confused ways. They have many squads know as something silly like "Hercules Squads" that hang out in full black combat body armor and carry automatic weapons in crowded places. They treat protestors and others as working for the terrorists, or at least interfering with or distracting from their "war on terror." It makes no sense, but it is VERY ingrained in police culture. No matter how stupid something is, "...because September 11" is an acceptable answer.

Police culture is very insular. Police work, socialize, and even live in neighborhoods with other police. They read police websites, newspapers (NYpost and daily news) and get their information from police unions and whiteshirts. Like mafia life in Goodfellas, after a while it all seems normal. It breeds some b@$%!#% crazy and racist stuff, but most non-police never hear about it.
"...And there are the Hercules Teams, elite, heavily armed, Special Forces–type police units that pop up daily around the city. It can be at the Empire State Building, the Brooklyn Bridge, Times Square, or the stock exchange, wherever the day's intelligence reports suggest they could be needed. These small teams arrive in black Suburbans, sheathed in armor-plated vests and carrying 9-mm. submachine guns—sometimes with air or sea support. Their purpose is to intimidate and to very publicly mount a show of force. "

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I found this article to be pretty dead on about the current state of policing in the US:
The American Justice System Is Not Broken

The US has a long history of mistreating minorities, especially black people. While things have been very slowly improving since the civil war, institutional racism never disappeared, it just became more subtle. While you can't own a black person these days, you can own stock in a private prison company, that works with the government/police/court system to increase business (inmates). The plantation has been replaced by the prison.

The Ferguson case and the Eric Garner case highlight the fact that police and the courts ARE above the law. They can essentially act with impunity, because there is really no police for the police. In order to control The State, you are are only allowed to work within The State, which very obviously prioritizes it's own over "justice", "rights" or the "law".

Like many aspects of the US, problems are labeled as exceptions, bad apples, or mistakes, but if you follow the money/power you can see that these things are intentional, and are going to keep happening.

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Farael the Fallen wrote:
He is returning...

Satan? I didn't know he left...

Limeylongears wrote:

Are you talking about Elfquest elfquest, or some other questing elf?

I ask because the original graphic novels warped my young mind, and provided much inspiration when I colored comics later in life (including ones drawn by a guy who did books 7-8). I also happen to live a short train ride from the creators.

GreyWolfLord wrote:

... to discuss what causes someone to go insane enough to burn down their own homes...on a massive scale even.

OK, I just failed by Will save Will Save: 1d20 - 10 ⇒ (16) - 10 = 6 because I personally enjoy when satire gets mixed with reality.

To the best of my knowledge ZERO homes in Ferguson have been destroyed.
ALWAYS check your source for comedy before using it was fact

Two thoughts...
Repeating darkwood heavy crossbow.
Wands of scorching ray or magic missile (CL 3 or 5)

As a side note, check out the hover feat. Hovering near the ground where there is dust and debris changes the combat dynamic drastically.

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While I have a lot to say on the subject, (I started the original thread) the discussion of race turns toxic pretty quick.

We have basically been asked to have the discussion elsewhere, especially while the office is closed for the holiday/weekend.

I would encourage everyone to take a look at the current state of protesting in the US and read up on the Miami Model of protest policing. Perhaps suggesting ways to protest for positive change might result in a more civil thread, but I suggest waiting until at least Monday, and probably taking the discussion to another site.

Chris Lambertz wrote:
Just a quick note here: is honestly probably not the appropriate place on the internet to discuss this issue, and related threads have not resulted all that well. Following this post, any posts that don't adhere to our Community Guidelines may result in us choosing to lock this thread. Given the upcoming holiday and limited staffing, I'm unsure we can properly facilitate this discussion without willingness on all participants to follow them. So be cool to each other guys.

EDIT: I'm not trying to speak for the moderators, just repeating what they said.

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Fergie wrote:
That is kind of funny to post in a thread about alignment where GM discretion is RAW and RAI.
Which makes it hard to say "Evil spells make you Evil according to the rules!" when the rule is "The GM decides if that is true or not."

True, but as GM I take a look at clerics and see this:

"Spells: A cleric casts divine spells which are drawn from the cleric spell list presented in Spell Lists. Her alignment, however, may restrict her from casting certain spells opposed to her moral or ethical beliefs; see chaotic, evil, good, and lawful spells. A cleric must choose and prepare her spells in advance."

If a spell is opposed to the moral and ethical beliefs of Good, is a a stretch to say that it is Evil (for a spell with the [Evil] descriptor for example)?

WPharolin wrote:

My group calls the "Trust in the magical superpowas of the DM" argument the Willy Wonka argument.


That is kind of funny to post in a thread about alignment where GM discretion is RAW and RAI.

PRD - "In the end, the Game Master is the one who gets to decide if something's in accordance with its indicated alignment, based on the descriptions given previously and his own opinion and interpretation—the only thing the GM needs to strive for is to be consistent as to what constitutes the difference between alignments like chaotic neutral and chaotic evil. There's no hard and fast mechanic by which you can measure alignment—unlike hit points or skill ranks or Armor Class, alignment is solely a label the GM controls."

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DominusMegadeus wrote:
I'm pretty sure the summoned creature would 'do it's best' to do exactly what the caster said. Because it's a summoned creature.

PRD - "Creatures you conjure usually—but not always—obey your commands."

Usually, but not always. Nothing in the spell description or the section about conjuration indicates that the creature is required to obey you.

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

Shameless socialist self-promotion: Pre-Stand with #Wal-Mart Strikers/Stand with Ferguson rally

A to the K homeboy!

Sorry, been listening to a little too much Cypress Hill lately...

kikidmonkey wrote:
Fergie wrote:
Are people really so hung up on the idea that something that is generally a minor evil act can be used for good in specific circumstances?
Brace for impact! :P

That is why I posted here instead of the other thread... I wasn't sure if the other thread was serious.

I would say that in order to make a list of what is powerful, and what isn't, you would first have to select a character level. At the lowest levels, the martial characters are generally superior to casters. This trend evens out in the mid levels, then reverses in the higher levels.

Many times the "default assumptions" of the game are thrown out the window - especially in the later AP's. Some encounters don't give you a chance to cast mirror image, freedom of movement, etc. before you end up in some tentacle grapple swallow whole situation. Sometimes encounters start with everyone in the party taking damage, and healing is needed to keep PCs from getting one-shotted. I think too often people confuse kicking ass 75% of the time, then being useless 25% of the time with well rounded power.

I would also add that for inexperienced players defense is often more important then offense. The guy with full plate, shield, and lots of HP is often going to seem like the most powerful character.

Finally, I would say that the only classes that are really at the low end of the scale would be rogues, monks, and TWF rangers. Super easy to make a very weak character, very hard to make a mid powered character. Any character with full BAB who has decent defenses and can do archery or melee without five rounds of buffing could reach a 7 in my book.

I was going to ask this on the parody thread, but I guess I'm looking for a slightly more serious answer, or at least don't want to start a debate on that thread.

I also have not read all of the responses, so I apologize in advance if this has been covered.

Are people really so hung up on the idea that something that is generally a minor evil act can be used for good in specific circumstances?


"The subjects look, feel, and smell just like the creatures the spell makes them resemble. "
So I think any "creature" is fair game. Invisible stalkers have Natural Invisibility (Ex), so I think you could turn everyone into an invisible stalker.

"Those who interact with the subjects can attempt Will disbelief saves to see through the glamer, but spell resistance doesn't help."

How often you get to save, what constitutes "interaction", and other questions desperately need a FAQ thread!

N. Jolly wrote:

I can't blame you for not going through all of them, everything about this situation has been so emotionally draining for me. I've been crying for about a day now over the fact that something like this can even happen.

I feel for you N. Jolly. I have a little history with the police in riotesque situations, and to have my very last name suddenly linked with injustice in so many forms is to say the least- depressing.

On the brighter side, at least this sparked international attention, and positive change often results from bad situations.

EDIT: And thanks for keeping the thread open, at least for now Mr. Lambertz. I realize threads like this are a drain on resources, with very little benefit, but I really appreciate the forum provided. Thanks!

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