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KingOfAnything wrote:

@Torbyne

That just means that of the four pilots going on the mission, a few will need to fill the other roles on a ship. For Organized Play, it will be smart to have a secondary role you are ready to fill, be it engineering, gunnery, or science.

I think that is the reason Starfinder classes tend to have more skill points than Pathfinder classes.


Imbicatus wrote:
Fardragon wrote:


Necrogiders don't need shields, damage control or evasive manoeuvres.

They would need all of those things, in order to avoid destruction. What they don't need is life support or provisions.

They don't need to avoid destruction. Getting destroyed is what they are for. The in-game logic is that if the necrogliders are being shot at then the carrier isn't.

But the true purpose of any monster is to die at the hands of the PCs.


The vesk fighter is a two man craft, which is a lot more viable, since you can have one person to fly the ship and somone else to fire the guns or deal with incoming damage.

Necrogiders don't need shields, damage control or evasive manoeuvres.


Fighters are cannon fodder. That's why the ones we have heard about are crewed by undead or goblins.


I would merge both threads, they are on the same topic.


Torbyne wrote:
CKent83 wrote:

Also, if everyone is supposed to be piloting their own ship, you're losing out on party diversity. If you've got 4 small ships going up against an encounter designed for a normal party, they're probably going to take many more casualties because they are squishier, can't shoot, fly, repair, scan, and whatever else all at the same time. 1 big ship automatically has much more defense just from sheer bulk, and can have someone dedicated to repairs, can have much larger/more guns with a dedicated gunner, and can be better at avoiding attacks because you can have some specialized in piloting. This diverse group will have those same strengths when they are on the ground adventuring, whereas a group of 4 pilots would be too similar, and, again, will take more casualties from being unable to deal with specialized threats.

TL;DR: a big ship with a diverse crew is better than a greater number of ships piloted by characters that can't do everything at the same time.

EDIT: grammar.

This is all based on a lot of assumptions though.

We know there are single crewed fighters in the game, so lets assume they can perform basic move and shoot in a single turn. they probably can also perform something like a target lock or sensor scan, maybe at the cost of moving or shooting.

Actually, we know quite a lot quite a lot about how starship combat works, and have seen it in action. We know that each PC - not each ship - can perform one action, and one quick action in a turn.

So yes, each ship can (and must) perform basic movement. But anything else it wants to do - mavouver, fire weapons, perform a sensor scan, recharge shields, repair system damage, give an inspirational order is limited by the number of PCs on the crew.

And in order to do those things, you will need the appropiate skill Pilot, Gunnery, Engineering, Computer, etc. A fighter pilot would need to have all those skills, which would make their options a bit limited on the ground.


Torbyne wrote:
Fardragon wrote:
Steelfiredragon wrote:
I was going to ask why a pc would even want tehir own personal ship outside the party ship.... unless your pc is unhappy with the party and wants to leave....

That's no different from a character wanting to leave the party in Pathfinder. Generally, they are written out of the story.

As for fighters, we have discussed elsewhere why they are likely to be sub-optimal with the Starfinder starship combat rules, an why they are limiting on viable PC builds.

Oh, i think i missed that thread, where is it?

This thread: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uczk&page=last?Adventuring-Party-Starships

CKent83 makes a particularly insightful post on the drawbacks of a fighter campaign.

Action economy does seem to be a major factor in starship combat, but it's tied to the number of players, not the number of ships.


Steelfiredragon wrote:
I was going to ask why a pc would even want tehir own personal ship outside the party ship.... unless your pc is unhappy with the party and wants to leave....

That's no different from a character wanting to leave the party in Pathfinder. Generally, they are written out of the story.

As for fighters, we have discussed elsewhere why they are likely to be sub-optimal with the Starfinder starship combat rules, an why they are limiting on viable PC builds.


I thought everyone knew the F4 where elemental-themed.


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Fardragon wrote:

Obozaya's hp:

7 per level from soldier + 6 vesk. Nothing from Con.

Stamina Points

7 per level from soldier +con bonus per level from Con. (Obo's con bonus increases between level 1 and 5).

Just thought I would repost some of my calculations, based on the iconic character sheets sedn at level 1 and 5.

And the mystic gets 6 + con bonus SP per level, and 6 per level + race bonus HP.

Since the racial hp bonus doesn't scale with level, its only really significant for 1st level characters. Class and level are the main factors after that.

Con is important for stamina, but has no effect on hp.


I don't think the delicate electronics in a laser rifle would like it if you started using it as a spear.


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Torbyne wrote:
do you think you can get AP ammo that is adamantium cored to ignore hardness of 20 or less and DR/Adamantium? couple that with a Good fusion and basically be set? Really being amused by a "holy" machine gun. every bullet accompanied by an angelic choir singing and the powder flash always forms feathered wings behind the bullet...

I am reminded of the Doctor Who story "Battlefield". The Brigadier is going through UNIT's special ammo: "we have teflon for daleks, gold for cybermen..."

The Doctor: "do you have silver?"

[I'm quoting from memory, so may not be exact]


If EAC is almost always just 2 pips less than KAC, why not just have one AC and give energy weapons +2 to hit?

The problem with all this balancing that goes on "under the hood" is the GM at least should understand it so they can exercise thier creativity without breaking the game.

I've been ignoring the 5th edition monster rules though, and so far I have gotten away with it without my players noticing anything amiss.


Yeah, the other day a monster rolled a 20 in my 5th edition game and inflicted 26 ponts of damage on a 1st level charachter.


Speaking as a 1st edition vet, we don't need no steenkin monster creation rules.

And I will ignore them anyway.


Mashallah wrote:
Fardragon wrote:
Technomancer may be on 4 SP, but I suspect it will be Solarions who join soldiers in the low band.
They're called Solarians. Moreover, 4 SP is the low band - that's what Soldiers have.

Yes, I said 4 was the low band. My guess is soldiers and solarians are on 4, envoys and operatives are on 8, and everyone else is on 6.

And I'm dyslexic, so only one letter wrong is pretty good going for me.


Technomancer may be on 4 SP, but I suspect it will be Solarions who join soldiers in the low band.


I think a paradigm shift is needed. In PF 2 SP is low, 4 is medium, 6 is high and 8 is very high.

In SF 4 SP is low, 6 is avarage, and 8 is high. Mechanics and Mystics are average, soldiers are low.

NB does Int still have it's usual effect? Do humans stil get an extra SP?

NB most of the backgrounds seem to give situational bonuses to Culture skill, which suggests that the developers are expecting most characters to take it.


This being a science fiction game, I expect skills will be more important than in an avarage fantasy game, especially given that Pilot, Gunnery, Engeneering and Computer are so important for space combat. So lots of high-skill classes.

As for soldiers not having perception as a class skill, if it bothers you so much why not house rule that they do?


I would see Mechanic as another skill monkey class (especially if they have an AI assistant) and a choice of skills to represent scientists and doctors, not just engineers.

Class skills: Computers, Culture, Engineering, Life Science, Physical Science, Medicine, Profession, Disable Device.

And Perception. If you want to fix something you have to be able to spot what is wrong with it.


Enjoy your holiday, and thanks for all the work you have put in.


I don't know if he said it then, but it has been stated before.


Core mechanic: if a player uses a rules exploit bad karma catches up with them.

It's better than trying to legislate against every eventuality.


If I'm GMing:

Str 7: you are encumbered by your cloak if it rains.
Cha 7: everyone hates you.


Wether or not there are any 4hp classes (I doubt it myself), I don't see mechanics being frailer than envoys and mystics. (or less skilled than an envoy).


I say 6 skilll points, and 6hp.


I think there are special rules for sniper rifles, seperate to trick attack.


Yes, it sounds like the aliens are all fully detailed.


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I'm guessing Forerunner is inspired by the Pathfinder Chronicler PRC, with a hint of ranger tracking, and maybe some form of HIPS.


If you think you can lower str to 7, I take it your GM ignores the encumbrance rules.


Seisho wrote:

I just wondered

The Phrenic Adept has innate magical abilities
does he get spellcasting or some spellike abilities?

Given that spellcasting classes can choose this AT I would assume it grants spell like abilities rather thsn actuall spellcasting.

I would guess some sort of telepathy at level 2, with mind control and psychic blasts at higher levels.

NB, since the first ability isn't granted until level 2, does that mean you don't need to choose your AT until you level up?


Mashallah wrote:
Damanta wrote:
Mashallah wrote:
Quote:
The first time you fail a saving throw
The first time per day? Per encounter? Per lifetime?
The way I read it: per save and as long as you have resolve points to spend.
The wording would definitely benefit from being cleaned up.

Yes, I queried the wording earlier. Somewhat consernifying that the wording isn't clearer.

My understanding would be that any time you fail saving throw against an eligable attack you can activate the ability if you have resolve points available. If you then fail again the ability reduces the damage or duration of the effect. This raises the issue of abilities that do half damage on a successful save (if such abilities exist). Since you made your save you can't use this ability to reduce your damage.

I would say the reason it says "the first time" is to prevent you from activating the power again against the same attack, potentially rerolling the same save until you win or run out of resolve.


I doubt there would be more than one option, unless there are options inherent in the ability - e.g. One less spell known, there is obviously a range of potential spells that you could have learned if you didn't have the AT.


Seisho wrote:

That one went to my head to

So I wonder if it is always the same set that gets traded or are there options?

Not every archetype replaces every replaceble class feature. As stated, if you choose the Forerunner AT it replaces the replacable ability at 2, 4 and 6, but you keep the base class ability from level 9, 12 and 18.

So you could potentially shop around for an AT that only replaces the abilities you don't want, and not the ones you do want.

That is once more ATs have been published. I expect they will appear quite regularly.


I'm not sure what the Forerunner is for, especially in games that don't involve the Starfinder Society. It adds ranger-type abilities?


Can you clarify the description of "Phrenic Defence"? Do you get the reduced damage/duration automatically, or only if you spend a resolve point to reroll your save?


Cute fury animals from alpha centuri are cute fury animals from alpha centuri.


Ashanderai wrote:
rooneg wrote:
Interesting. I wonder how the difference between Pathfinder spells and Starfinder spells compares to the difference between Pathfinder spells and 5e spells.
I'm afraid I wouldn't know that as I have not even read any of the 5e books.

I would say that the main difference is that 5th edition spells don't scale with level. You have to cast it at a higher level if you want it more powerful. To compensate for this the spells tend to be stronger out of the box.


I suppose the issue is, not "can you do it" but "why would you do it?"

Starfinder includes detailed rules for starship combat, but only perfunctory rules for cyberspace.

Shadowrun has no rules for starship combat but detailed rules for cyberspace.

Which is the best choice if you want a campaign with lots of cyberspace and no starships?


Yeah, the themes are more job descriptions than character motivations. "Member of an order dedicated to seeking justice", (which reduces to Priest) is the way to go. Or "cop /mega city judge/Batman" which all reduce to Bounty Hunter.

But there are a lot of possibilites not covered, which is where Themeless comes in. It should really be called "Other" though - there would be less confusion that way.


I think spacefarer was con and xenoseaker wisdom.


IonutRO wrote:
Fardragon wrote:

The archetype replacement ability is based on class level, rather than character level so it's not an issue.

Say you have class A with archetype 1 and milticlass to class B with archetype 2. The archetype replaces a class feature at level j. When you reach level j in class A that class feature is replaced by the archetpe 1 feature. This is irrespective of how many levels of class B or total character levels you have.

I.e. Even though ATs are usable with any class they must still be assigned to a specfic class which will have abilities replaced.

It is very much an issue when trying to multiclass but want the same archetype for more than one of your classes

That's simple.

You can't.


The archetype replacement ability is based on class level, rather than character level so it's not an issue.

Say you have class A with archetype 1 and milticlass to class B with archetype 2. The archetype replaces a class feature at level j. When you reach level j in class A that class feature is replaced by the archetpe 1 feature. This is irrespective of how many levels of class B or total character levels you have.

I.e. Even though ATs are usable with any class they must still be assigned to a specfic class which will have abilities replaced.


Science Officer role is fun.

Captain: "scan the ship for life signs."
Science Officer: "I scan the ship for life signs."
GM: "you detect no life signs"
Science Officer: "I detect no life signs."


Torbyne wrote:
I always thought the term hobo was fairly modern anyways and would apply just as well in space. Murdernaut sounds more professional if anything, like, "Yeah, i am 9-5 Murdernaut in the corps. no biggie." :P

Depends what you call modern. It's dated to around 1890.


The mechanic should have a giant robot shape on thier list.


The GM could add a pseudo-PC to the party I guess, in the same way as you might in Pathfinder if you didn't have enough players, but generally it is supposed to be covered by having lower challenge rating enemies if the number of players is small.

The idea is to make things managable for the GM by not having to make dozens of skill rolls every turn for the opposition.


Players can double up on roles, but they can still only take one action and one minor action per round, so if they do a pilot manoeuvre they can't restore the shields or use the sensors and so on.

Extra PCs are useful as additional gunners or engineers, but NPCs don't count. So if you have 60 players they can all be useful, but 54 NPCs are just a liability.

In Star Trek RPG the NPC crew are tracked, and if too many die the efficiency of ship functions is impaired. There is also a role for a Medical Officer who can mitigate crew damage. But the Starfinder starship sheets have no box to track crew damage, and there is no medical officer role.


Shadrayl of the Mountain wrote:
Fardragon wrote:

Here is the problem:

The GM has this first level scenario set up: "you are hired by a broker who claims to represent the Xenowardens. He want's you to smuggle a cargo of energy weapons to a group of opressed natives on the local moon". (This is actually what I have planned).

How would the crew react to such a legally dodgy/small time commission? Why would the broker aproach the captain of a naval/pirate frigate in the first instance?

From what I gather, the Adventure Path scenario would be equally inappropriate.

And of course, as the rules are set up, a ship with a crew of 6 would perform just as well as a ship with a crew of 60. There us no gameplay advantage to those extra bodies.

Do you have actual evidence for that claim of 6=60 in performance? I don't think we have enough info for this statement to hold much weight.

Yes. Only player characters can perform actions and make skill rolls. That's true if they are crewing a light freighter or a megadestroyer. In gameplay terms there is simply nothing for your 54 NPCs to do.


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The other archetype will be Inquisitor. No one would expect that.

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