Fantomas's page

I have been running Beyond the Mottled Tower, and it is awesome. The encounters are just mind-blowingly great. My players are loving tossing monsters into blood chaos and lava.

If you are playing this campaign and it's feeling like a slog, trust me, it gets better. I'm reading Haven of the bitter glass and I am honestly thinking it's the best 4e adventure out there.

In addition, the author has created the "roleplaying encounter", which is simple and clever.

Sorry for the brief threadjack, but could you tell me why you thought Thunderspire labyrinth was a campaign killer? I've been thinking of trying to work it into a homebrew Nentir Vale campaign I want to run and I'm wondering what about it you thought was so bad.

Fantomas wrote:

I would suggest that you keep playing Scales of War. I am running it, group just hit 11th level, and it's been good but not great.

Pros:
- The Low level adventures are better than Keep on the Shadowfell and Thunderspire Labyrinth. Thunderspire, in my experience, is a total campaign killer. The Horned Hold will rip all the gaming passion from your soul. It is utterly dreadful.
- The second Scales of War adventure is awesome. The final series of encounters are legendary.
- Overlook, the city, is really cool. Definitely wander around and get to know the districts. It's one of the best things about the whole path.
- The adventures I'm getting to now both look to be awesome. Beyond the Mottled Tower will give my party much-desired revenge against an old enemy. And Haven of the Bitter Glass is looking like a path-saving mini-masterpiece, if your party is actually looking to do some role-playing.

Cons:
- Official 4e adventures take a long, long time. Individual encounters can take much longer than an hour, even if every player is focused and even if your DM waves the battle off when it's clear the PCs have won.
- While I personally liked the third adventure in the SOW path, lots of people hate it. The plot is weak. But IMO, the place you go to is extremely cool and makes up for it.
- The overarching story barely connects at all. If your DM doesn't adjust the plot, the players are left feeling like they don't know what's going on, or who the uber-bad guy is, or anything. By the time things are revealed, nobody cares.
- The character backgrounds provided in Dragon magazine supposedly connect the PCs to the path. They don't. It's all up to your DM to link them.

If you're looking to play a 4e campaign, Scales is a good

...

What was so bad about Thunderspire?

It's basically split into 4 adventures. The first one, with the Chamber of Eyes, is OK but very forgettable. Then comes The Horned Hold. When I ran it, it took forever. The encounters were all against duergar, who are boring. And the fights are elaborate but somehow still dull. And the purpose for going there is very dull and pedestrian. As I ran it, I ended up adding in side adventures to keep everyone from falling asleep. I ended up abandoning it after a TWO SESSION ENCOUNTER. That's about 10 hours we spent fighting Murkelmor. And it was not epic. It was boring.

Then, I have a friend who's running it. I did not warn him until it was too late. His party got to the Horned Hold. And a few sessions later, they stopped it and are thinking about just leveling everyone up to paragon because the Horned Hold was so boring that players had DROPPED OUT. And this guy is a good DM!

The Well of Demons in part 3 looks awesome. But I severely doubt many groups will get to experience it. Just say "no" to Thunderspire Labyrinth, people. If you drop it in a garden, all of the flowers will wilt and turn grey, and the bees will commit suicide.

cthulhudarren wrote:

Question for everyone who used/is using Tammeraut's Fate, it looks like a decent part of the plot dynamics is that the players are stuck on the island. Obviously this isn't going to happen with the Sea Wyvern. What changes if any did you make to account for this and keep the drama factor high?

Like Bacchreus, I inserted Tammeraut's Fate as Fort Greenrock. Instead of having been attacked by zombies (which seem overly common already in this AP), I had the locale be ground zero for a second savage tide. This allowed the players to be relatively certain that Kraken Cove wasn't a fluke and that Vanthus had passed this way ahead of them.

I expected my players not to stay a night on the isle, and didn't want to force them into it, so the best aspects of Tammeraut's Fate (the night time) wouldn't have come into play anyway.

Wow... thank you! I am going to do this!

This thread has been extremely helpful. I had been planning on running War of the Wielded, but then decided to check out Tammeraut and I like it alot.

I would suggest that you keep playing Scales of War. I am running it, group just hit 11th level, and it's been good but not great.

Pros:
- The Low level adventures are better than Keep on the Shadowfell and Thunderspire Labyrinth. Thunderspire, in my experience, is a total campaign killer. The Horned Hold will rip all the gaming passion from your soul. It is utterly dreadful.
- The second Scales of War adventure is awesome. The final series of encounters are legendary.
- Overlook, the city, is really cool. Definitely wander around and get to know the districts. It's one of the best things about the whole path.
- The adventures I'm getting to now both look to be awesome. Beyond the Mottled Tower will give my party much-desired revenge against an old enemy. And Haven of the Bitter Glass is looking like a path-saving mini-masterpiece, if your party is actually looking to do some role-playing.

Cons:
- Official 4e adventures take a long, long time. Individual encounters can take much longer than an hour, even if every player is focused and even if your DM waves the battle off when it's clear the PCs have won.
- While I personally liked the third adventure in the SOW path, lots of people hate it. The plot is weak. But IMO, the place you go to is extremely cool and makes up for it.
- The overarching story barely connects at all. If your DM doesn't adjust the plot, the players are left feeling like they don't know what's going on, or who the uber-bad guy is, or anything. By the time things are revealed, nobody cares.
- The character backgrounds provided in Dragon magazine supposedly connect the PCs to the path. They don't. It's all up to your DM to link them.

If you're looking to play a 4e campaign, Scales is a good choice. The official path (Shadowfell-Thunderspire-Pyramid-etc) to me doesn't look like fun until it gets high level, starting with nightwyrm tower (and kingdom of the ghouls - I cannot wait to run that!).

Converting a paizo path is another way to go, but that is a lot of work. I converted Shackled City, and while it was fun, it was not easy. All the rooms need to be made bigger and monsters need to be added, it's quite an ordeal. But Shackled City was just awesome. I'm currently also running a converted Savage Tide campaign, and that is going really well too - but again, there's lots of work to be done. Particularly if you want to use the affiliations.

Your last option is do some Living Forgotten Realms. That could be fun, but requires a lot of printer ink (or a DM who runs from a laptop I guess). The problem with LFR is that there's these connected adventures, but the level requirements are spread out to where you can't do them in a row. So you nibble on one plot set in Cormyr, nibble on another over in Baldur's Gate, and by the time you get back to Cormyr you don't remember or care what the heck is going on. Additionally, the published adventure, Sceptre Tower of Spellgard, was less than thrilling. And that's the only one they'll be making!

Good luck!

Updated the link so that clicking on it hopefully works now!!

Chapter Six Conversion to 4th Edition.

Feel free to download and peruse, use or comment.

Cheers
Blakey

One thing you may want to consider is to model the lich fight after an encunter in dungeon magazine. I don't want to spoil too much, but basically, the PCs need to wind their way around a ledge while minions pour out of a random tunnel (there were 6 tunnels in the adventure) each round.

The adventure is called "Siege of Bordrin's Watch", it's in the second free issue of Dungeon on the wizards site. The encounter is called "The Nexus" and is hands-down the best 4e encounter I've run.

Fantomas,

How did you deal with the Oblivion Doors? Did you convert them to something 4E-ish, or leave them as is, or just have them as normal locked doors?

Cheers!
Blakey

The Oblivion doors... I kept them the way they looked, but turned the first one they found into a skill challenge to find a way to pick/use magic the door. Failure meant that the door shot a beam at the offending PC. Success with one door taught them the "magic trick" of opening all the others, so from then on out all they needed was an Arcana check. It worked well, but again the damage for failure wasn't powerful enough. Though the party rogue never got over the damage he repeatedly took from the doors in Jzadirune.....

The problem with this is that Vhalentru's lair is ABOVE the rest of the dungeon. I decided to just leave it and see how it went. They did enter and fight the beholder before exploring the rest of Oblivion, and it threw them off a bit.

You might want to do a thing where they need an "eye gem" off of each of the other doors to open vhalantru's door. Or some kind of gimmick/device/magic word held by the flamewarders below.

Beware of Knock, obviously!

I scaled down the beholder in the MM and the fight went well. It wasn't too deadly, though one PC was turned to stone.

Hey Fanto (and other 4E converters),

How did you deal with the numerous places where the module expects the party to use powerful Divination magic but where similar spells/rituals don't exist in 4E?

For example, Chapter Seven the party acquire a Soulcage and on page 211 of the HC it goes through the various spells they could use to research it including Vision and Legend Lore.

I'm guessing two approaches to this:

1. Just give the PCs a straight forward Arcana check. If they don't score high enough then maybe Vortimax Weer can help them.
2. A skill challenge.

Sadly I'm really not quite sure how to run skill challenges under 4E yet (yes its probably time I figured it out!!) so I'm not sure how to design this. If it was a skill challenge, I expect it would involve Arcana but what other skills would prove useful? Also, what would happen if the Skill Challenge was failed?

Any ideas?

I will look at your conversions after work. Any time my group needed information, they went right to the church of Kaylin to use the Star of Justice. They used to find it funny to make me come up with a rhyming answer on the spot (though sometimes I was ready with a pre-made response).

Skill challenges are really tricky. I'd suggest that you look through the published adventures for examples. I'll look later, I'm pretty sure I have an adventure that has a "seeking knowledge" challenge.

Hmm, my party's 8th level rogue hasn't got that power. I won't be alerting him to it!!

Have you finished the campaign yet Fanto?

I ran the Tax Riot last night using lots of ideas you had come up with in terms of the conversion and it went off like a dream. So thanks for your help!

I wrote a huge response to this many days ago but this site ate it. I'm glad the riot went well, that section is one of the best parts of the campaign IMO.

We finished the campaign. Unfortunately I made Adimarchus too weak, so the final fight was nothing special. I'd recommend basing stats off of a monster in one of the newer supplements... like the Aspect of Tiamat from the Draconomicon. It would work well with the four snakes coming out of Demonic-Adimarchus' back.

Now the heroes are adventuring in The Abyss. They wan to go all the way to 30th level.

Good Luck!

Ladies & Gentlemen,

1) How easy was it for your group to get through the Starry Mirror? Would you have done anything differently to make the puzzle easier/harder?

2) Not mentioned in the book, but if a PC wanders around inside the SM for a while first, does he/she have to "walk the pattern" (heh heh ... Zelazny) starting from whatever color she/he happens to be standing in at that time, or from the color originally entered?

3) What's your favorite color? Red? NO, BLUE! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhhhhhhhh

;^D

Thanks,

FM

My party did not figure out the starry mirror. They weren't even close. I had to have an NPC figure it out. I also know someone else who ran it, and his group was baffled too. He was of the opinion that The Starry Mirror was ridiculously hard.

I haven't read it in a while, but I don't think you have to start from the first color...

Here's my take:

Continue to use the paralyzing spit on them until they're all paralyzed, then its game over for them since he could drag them out of the field and destroy them one by one, or even coup de grace them in the field with his bite. Don't forget with that antimagic field, they can't retreat out the way they came (the oblivion doors need magic to open).

Tossing stuff with telekinesis is a good one, too.

Last tactic, don't be afraid to have Orbius retreat if he seems ineffective. He can turn and disintigrate upwards til he hits the surface while facing his antimagic eye down to prevent pursuit. He can always show up later when the PC's aren't so prepared, to take his revenge (perhaps before the events of Foundation of Flames, or even afterwards with the cagewrights).

It's been mentioned, but the first thing I thought of was to have Vhalantru use his disintegrate ray to cut out some of the ceiling and have it collapse on them...

But IMO the best idea is to have him keep using the paralyzing spit until they're all paralyzed.. THEN drop the ceiling on them.

Remember, it says in the adventure that Vhalantru used his disintegrate ray to carve out Oblivion himself, so he is very good at carving up the stone as he sees fit.

Are you sure you want to continue the 2nd AP with the *same characters* ??

Diamond Lake is a really place to start out a group of new adventurers. In fact, my biggest gripe with AoW is that the action wonders away from "home base" and never returns! And it's totally different from Cauldron - so by moving it to there you'll miss out on a lot of what makes the first few adventures so special.

You're high level PCs from AP1 can always show up as "guest stars" at some point, in cameo roles...

Well my group wants to go in an entirely different direction, so I won't be using AoW at all (though I want to some day, as it looks really good). Instead, they're going to adventure in The Abyss.

Thanks for the advice, though. I think it's cool that certain elements and NPCs cross over from path to path (although Celeste looks like a completely different person in each one). I am running the 4e Scales of War path for another group, and there's an NPC with the last name of Dourstone, which I think is one of the mines in diamond lake.

The bane of solos is this rogue power:

Walking Wounded Rogue Attack 5
You topple your enemy with a crippling blow and force him to
stumble around the battlefield.
Daily ✦ Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee or Ranged weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding a crossbow, a light blade,
or a sling.
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Fortitude
Hit: 2[W] + Dexterity modifier damage, and the target is
knocked prone. Until the end of the encounter, if the
target moves more than half its speed in a single action, it
falls prone at the end of its movement.
Miss: Half damage, and the target is not knocked prone.

Once that's applied, the PCs just roll off their slow effects (every round if the solo makes its' save).. Their speed is effectively a 1.

My players also roll off their daze and stuns in a carefully co-ordinated ballet of violence... The +5 save bonus usually works, but then there's another power ready to be unleashed right after it.

Maybe I'm being over-dramatic when I say they "don't work". The fight with the beholder went fine. It just seemed for a while there that solos posed no threat at all.

What I did for a lot of the cagewrights was to just take stats from the 4e books and "re skin" them. I also changed the final few adventures quite a bit...

For Shebeleth, I used the final encounter of Pyramid of Shadows. The bad guy has all these minion "clones" of himself, and he can shift between them. It was AWESOME.

For Ssythar, I just used a 17th level yuant-ti and some other yuan-ti for what turned out to be an epic battle in Shatterhorn. The yuan-ti dominate power wreaked utter havoc with the party.

For Dyr'Ryd, i made him an elite version of some demon, and gave him two initiative counts. It was great.

For the final battle with Adimarchus, I have it set up so that the interior of the soulcage that adimarchus is in is actually a sort of demi-plane inside. The PCs will go through a number of dream scenarios in this prison-plane where Adimarchus tries to tempt them to join him.

Once they pass through them, they will fight Adimarchus once and for all. I bought a Solar miniature, and am using a map from a 3e fields of ruin product (Hellspike Prison). The map is called The Temple of the Prismatic Flame. It should be epic.

So that's mostly what i did - just re-skinned existing creatures. And you can add in a power or two based on the original monster's stats if you feel it's necessary.

My players are planning on trying to adventure in the abyss once this is over. It's going to be great.

"The other biggest change was that when the party finally confronted Adimarchus they would, instead of killing him, travel into his Dark Dreams and Nightmare Realm where his Inner Demon was slowly corrupting Cauldron with maddening dreams.

I suggested the party entered the realm where they passed through doors and into Adimarchus' dreams (which they had progressively seen themselves) where they had to help Adimarchus avoid or redeem the actions he took which lead him to eventually losing his souls and mind. "

I don't know how helpful this is, but I just want to point out that I have been pondering how to change the Asylum adventure for 4e (I am not a big fan of the adventure, it feels very anti-climactic) and I think you just solved my dilemma.

My big problem is that Adimarchus is a sitting duck in the cage. My players will set up so that as soon as the cage door swings open, they'll unload all their daily/hampering powers and blast Adimarchus... it's just really lame for a final fight. My hookface fight was pathetic.. they had hookface hobbling around so that if he moved more than one square, he fell prone.. when he wasn't dazed or stunned.

But the concept of Adimarchus' cage being an entrance to a demi-plane allows me to create an entire adventure out of Adimarchus' demi-plane prison within a prison.

I know I want the final fight to be against Adimarchus as he shifts between angel and demon forms. But now I'll have to cook up two or three other encounters involving the major moments of Adimarchus' life. One should involve his time as an angel... one during the big fight against the angels, and then one involving Athux betraying him...

I didn't knew he had a French accent....(I'm french) but I realize that his name Dhorlot looks like the french verb Dorloter which means To Pamper in english.

Well I just saw the name as french, and i had read a thread on this site about Dhorlot... The thread mentioned having Dhorlot be on a rotating bed with pink sheets as the PCs entered... So I gave him the french accent and it was gold.

The heroes knew his name, but not the pronunciation. So when they came into his lair, they found the dragon lounging with a kuo toa female, who was stroking him lovingly.

The party warlord said "You must be Door Lot" (that's how the player pronouced it).

Dhorlot replied in his accent, "No, eet's... nnnDhorlot!"

The name meaning "To pamper", that makes it even better.

PulpCruciFiction wrote:

Yeah, I think they actually mention that the encounter is really only there to boost XP if the PC's are behind the curve of the AP at that point, and you should feel free to leave it out.

This is correct. When I developed the hardcover, I tried to make him a bit more relevant to the story, but were I developing that adventure today I'd just cut him out of the entire thing altogether. And not just because he's a half-dragon. :)

I feel the need to leap to the defense of Zarik Dhor!

My players loved Dhorlot. They got a kick out of his french accent, and they were just stunned that he was breeding with kuo toa, lizardwomen, and anything else he could make sweet, sweet love to.

So, when we got to the part where the mercenaries come in to play (I changed them from orcs to dragonborn, as I'm in 4e and it fit really well), Zarik Dhor was hired to keep an eye on the PCs.

Zarik Dhor was not subtle about this. He walked right up to them, his guards in tow, and said "Zo I zee you haff met my fazair!"... And from there it was two sessions of hilarity until they finally got to throw down with Zarik Dhor.

They loved every minute of it. And Zarik's picture is awesome.

This message has been paid for by the Dragon/Minotaur Love Coalition.

Blakey, I'll have to dig around and see what i have... unfortunately i write most of this stuff on paper, just starting to cut and paste instead...

One thing I just want to mention. I read the final adventure of the campaign - Asylum. And it's pretty underwhelming. It feels like it's not fleshed out enough. There's a whole city/town that could really use a lot more detail... and Skullrot itself has only a couple encounters inside.One of the encounters is absolutely ridiculous (an opera-singing demodand?? I can't see that playing as anything but ill-timed comedy in what should be a very dramatic, climactic adventure).

Not too thrilled with the lichfiend named "Dark Miracle" either. I can't tell if my players will laugh him off the map or not.

And I hate the idea of my PCs setting up to open Adimarchus' cage and then all unloading shots on the guy just as the door opens. They're going to fire off all their dailies and get the walking wounded/slow combo off right in the beginning, and Adimarchus will be hobbling around one square at a time for the rest of the encounter.

The switching from angel to demon form, however, should be good. If they unload all their big effects on the angel, and then he auto-shifts to a fresh demon-form, that might be cool.

I tested out the basics when they fought Dyr'Ryd, who has two faces. So I gave him two initiatives and attacks. It worked absolutely beautifully. It wasn't over-powering at all, either. It felt like a well-balanced challenge.

But the Adimarchus fight does not feel very climactic. I'm going to try to trick out the terrain and everything.. it's the final fight of the whole campaign, crazy crap should be happening!

WHAT exactly happens, i'm not so sure yet.

Hey glad to hear you're still rolling along!

How are you incorporating Shadowfell? You should definitely pick up Thunderspire... I haven't gotten to the well of demons (the third of the four dungeons in Thunderspire) but it looks awesome. And the fourth dungeon is guarded by an aspect of a god, which is a really cool encounter. You could change the god to a shade of adimarchus, perhaps.

What conversion notes are you looking for?

Did your players fight Dhorlot yet?

Adding an NPC is a great idea. Are you scaling encounters as per the DMG? If possible, you should find out who can make it and who can't days before you play. That way you can set up encounters appropriate to how many players. I think it's chapter 7 in the DMG, there's a chart. Just look up the XP total, and assign that XP worth of monsters per encounter, raising a few that are supposed to be more difficult.

An NPC sidekick is always a good idea. My party has had a number of actual minions as sidekicks. They began with a kobold named Tremble, who ended up as a member of the striders of fharlagn and is no longer a minion at all. They also had Meepo (from 3e's sunless citadel) with them, but he got frozen in the soul pillars adventure. Now they have bertrum, one of kravichak's derros.

NPC sidekicks are great for healing and balancing out a night when the players rolls go bad. You might want to make your dwarf a cleric or warlord, for healing purposes.

I don't know if anyone else out there is still converting this to 4e, but my group is rocketing through this adventure path and we are nearing the big finale. 27 sessions down, probably 6 more and we're done (I'm going to heavily alter and shorten 13 cages and shatterhorn).

We just finished foundation of flame, where Cauldron needs to be evacuated. The PCs are now 13th level. Some observations:

- 4E Skill DCs are either too easy or too hard. I had intended to run these encounters with the assumption that the heroes would work together, and important skill checks would be made by the PC with the biggest bonus. That would mean they'd have a myriad of bonuses for the roll: Trained (+5), Stat bonus (+4), Half their level (+6), and assists (+2 to +6 or beyond). That's about a +18 on average. The errata'd DCs, however, make this a cakewalk. "Hard" at lvl 12 is a DC of 21! That means the PCs would need a roll of 3 to pass!

So I went with non-errata'd DCs. And of course you know what happened. The PCs didn't work together... they bum-rushed the guy with the dangling baby. The baby died, the father died, and the daughter was crushed when the building collapsed.

My players grumbled after that session. We had some email talk about it. I decided that in the next session to use the errata DCs.

You know what happened next session! Nobody failed anything. But they sure enjoyed it more, so hey whatever. Skill DCs are tricky, that's for sure.

- Solo monsters don't work! I have no idea what to do with Adimarchus. My party will slaughter him. The latest example: Hookface. 15th level solo! I busted out the colossal red dragon miniature and plopped it on the map. Players freak out... and launch their slow/daze/stun abilities in succession so that the legendary dragon does little more then stand there with little birds floating around his head.

My players are pretty clever. The rogue uses walking wounded, which causes the victim to fall prone any time he moves more than half his movement. Then other people use slow effects on him. Slowed means Hookface can move two squares. But if he moves more than one, he falls prone!

Every solo fight is like this. They just don't work.

In comparison, the "warm-up fight" nearly lead to a TPK. When the demodands began plummeting from the sky, I had three riding the frostforged wyrms from the draconomicon (which is an incredible book and is very, very useful for shackled city campaigns). That's six level 11 creatures against my 13th level party (and all the demodands did was stand behind the dragons and use a minor action to provoke a standard action out of the wyrms).

The breath weapons go off in round one, and almost everyone is slowed and bloodied! I forgot to use two of their bloodied attacks (which do 4d10+6 in a close burst 2!!), and if I had remembered, PCs were going to die...

- For the elemental fight, I used firelashers and placed some water barrels on the map. One PC ran over and used thunderwave ON A BARREL, sending it flying at a firelasher... it was such an awesome idea that I decided that he killed it.

- If Nidrama is friends with your PCs, consider having her fly up into the clouds to investigate the forming planar rift, get hit or something, and then fall into a burning building on a crumbling street. Then make a skill challenge where an acrobatic PC has to dash across the rooftops of the burning buildings, grab Nidrama, then race back as the buildings collapse.

It was well-received.. though again, the errata DCs were almost unmissable.

- And a personal observation. The 4E official adventures are BORING. IMO you are much better off running shackled city and wedging in encounter concepts from the official 4e modules. In my other group, I am running them through the official adventures (Shadowfell, Thunderspire, etc) and it's nothing but giant dungeon crawls. It got so boring I started making whole side adventures that involved more than placing miniatures on a map and rolling it out for an hour per room.

I am going to be taking that group off the 4e "track" after Pyramid of Shadows and running them through an "old school path" - Planescape's The Great Modron March.

That will free up the future 4e modules.. I can "raid" them for maps and encounters to use as I see fit.

With Shackled City for sale on this site for 30 bucks, I would highly recommend getting it and running it in 4E as opposed to Keep on the Shadowfell (or Scales of War, which is also boring so far).

I am looking for some help, any advice I can get is appreciated.

I have been running a Shackled City campaign converted to 4th Edition. We've been plowing through it, and should be finished within two months. The heroes will be about 16th level.

The players really want to go all the way up to 30th level. I am pretty sure I am going to convert Age of Worms to 4E (and powered to their level). I'll shorten many of the dungeons, but keep the story intact.

The heroes will probably be ruling the city of Cauldron (the volcano city from Shackled City). I am planning on not using Diamond Lake, but switching all of the Diamond Lake adventures to the city of Cauldron. The "Free City" will be easy to plop in, as I've referenced the city of Sasserine from the Shackeld City many times. Sasserine can be the Free City.

I am now getting ready to start dropping hints and foreshadowing the whole Age of Worms story for my party. What should I make sure that I do so that the Age of Worms story doesn't feel "added in"?

- I'll need to reference the wind dukes of aaqa, correct?
- Will there be any issues as far as politics? My party will likely rule Cauldron. Is the overall kingdom known as Redhand? Maybe I should have the prince of redhand visit them sometime soon?
- Any legends they should know?
- They've already run into the Ebon Triad faction, which was very memorable. How do the triad "cells" relate to one another?
- The heroes met Celeste (who's still trapped in a magic thingie right now) as well as Ekaym Smallcask (who they HATE). Do I need to position either of them in the free city for whatever their role is in Age of Worms?

I'm just starting to sift through all of the Age of Worms material. Any advice is appreciated.

So I'm pretty far into the Shackled City path, and I've read the criticisms of it: "The villains aren't foreshadowed" and "It's a meatgrinder" are the two I've heard the most (and also "The Starry Mirror is impossible to figure out").

I love this path, but as I prepare for what comes next, I am wondering what you all think are the best paths out there and how they stack up against The Shackled City. I think the one I will run next will be another conversion to 4e (ohh joy!) - Rise of The Runelords. It just looks awesome.

But I am wondering how you'd rank Shackled City among the others. Here's the main options and my brief, ignorant thoughts on them:

Age of Worms - This looks really, really good. But I've read that it, like the Shackled City, feels like it's not very connected.

Savage Tide - Supposedly in this one, the adventures flow together beautifully. But I personally don't like the "pulp" style, and I hear this is pulp-y.

Rise of The Runelords - Again, awesome. Though I've never seen a serial killer work in d&d.

Scales of War - I am actually running this for another group, but it's too early to say how good it is. I like running something in actual 4e, but wizards hasn't released much of an over-all plot. It's pretty generic thus far.

Dhorlot ended up becoming something of a legend in my group. When they burst in on him in his lair, he was on a big cushion, with a kuo toa female stroking him lovingly. He corrected their pronunciation of his name in his french accent...

So last session, the heroes ran into Dhorlot's lost son, the half-minotaur Zarik Dhor. The heroes have been tormenting the poor NPC ever since. It's pretty hilarious.

I believe the inns listed in the HC are:

* The Cusp of Sunrise (more of a private club than an inn)
* The Coy Nixie
* The Slippery Eel
* The Tipped Tankard
* The Drunken Morkoth
* Minutia's Board

I've got them listed in order from swankiest to sleaziest (at least, how they are in my campaign). Most of them don't play much of a role in the plot on their own, but during the Flood Festival my group played out the drinking competition and I had great fun detailing some of the bars. They can be useful for foreshadowing if nothing else... for example, the Drunken Morkoth can be used to flesh out the myth of the Lake Monster.

There's also The Brass Trumpet, which is closed... I think it is used as a bad guy hideout in later chapters.

My players for whatever reason chose The Slippery Eel as their watering hole of choice, but got banned for life after a bar fight with some sleazy dwarves. They've spent time in all but The Tankard and Minuta's...

I just finished up Test of the Smoking Eye in only 2 sessions (thought they went much longer than usual). It is a GREAT adventure for 4e. Tons of terrain that affects combat.

A couple notes for anyone else who will be running this in 4e:

1. Tremor zones work well if you have the zones roll an attack vs. REF on anyone in them, and if they hit, the target is knocked prone.

2. The driders perched upside-down on the ceiling in the cathedral makes for a really cool fight. Some of the players climbed the outside wall and we ended up with half the party fighting inside the cathedral and the other half up on the roof.

3. Again, my players annihilate solo monsters. They all have powers that daze, knock prone, and even knock unconscious. The bebilith was a cool encounter, but it could have been a cakewalk if the dice didn't go sour on them.

4. The plain of cysts.. they figured it out, but couldn't resist any of the distractions. Which was fine. I used venom-eye basilisks... I don't think they're ready for the stone-eyes yet.

5. The black dragon... Dhorlot is something of a legend to my group. So when they saw Vorkaire flying toward them, they seemed to want this dragon to be related or similar somehow. Didn't matter... It swooped down and the rogue used knockout to drop the dragon and the party kicked its' butt.

6. They had no problem with the level 9 rakshasa and his fire giant guards.. I had the lich (converted to a simple level 9 wight) use swarms of undead minions, which was freaking awesome. They had to wade through about 40 minions to get up the stairs to the test room. It was great.

Test of the smoking eye was a great adventure. But maybe in part because I abhor random encounters, the party is only 10th level going in to the next chapter. Up until now, their level progression matched the 3rd edition adventures.

Not a big problem. It was a fun adventure. And now they're going back to Cauldron, it's going to be awesome.

So wizards just posted Graz'zt's 4e stats here:

http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dramp/20081003

It's funny, I'm just running Test of the Smoking Eye and re-read about how graz'zt ties in to the shackled city story.

Anyone got any ideas on how to use Graz'zt in Shackled City? Maybe as a post-campaign event? I mean, they printed the stats.. might as well use them.

And who is that female behind Graz'zt in the picture? In my game, I have made Athux a female, and I might say that she is Athux.

OK took me a few days but here's some more stats for you to tweak... Alek ended up being a little too tough, he outshone the party a bit. 2 of the players had to stumble out into the desert, gushing blood, while alek and the party paladin continue to wage battle with Nabthatoron.

Fire Giant Level 9 Soldier 400 XP
INIT +6 Speed 7
HP 102 Bloodied 51 Resist 15 fire
AC 25 FORT 25 REF 19 WILL 19

Searing GreatSword: Reach 2 +16 vs. AC 2d6+5 damage, target is marked

(encounter)Sweeping Sword: Close Blast 2 Make a Searing Greatsword attack as a close blast

Iron Javelin: Range 15/30 +16 vs. AC d8+5 damage, target slowed until end of giant's next turn

Throw an anvil: Range 10/20 +16 vs. AC 3d6+5 damage

STR 23 CON 22 DEX 11 INT 10 WIS 10 CHA 11

Fire Giant Forgecaller Level 9 Artillery 400 XP
INIT +6 Speed 8
HP 100 Bloodied 50 Resist 15 fire
AC 23 FORT 26 REF 21 WILL 22

Smoldering Mace: Reach 2 +16 vs. AC 2d6+5 damage

Fire Pillar: Ranged 20 +12 vs. REF, d8+5 fire damage

(recharge 6) Flame Burst: Area Burst 2 within 10 +12 vs. REF 4d8+5 fire damage, ongoing 5 (save ends) Make a Searing Greatsword attack as a close blast

Throw an anvil: Range 10/20 +16 vs. AC 3d6+5 damage

STR 23 CON 22 DEX 15 INT 10 WIS 16 CHA 11

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I just used a drow poison from the DMG in the goblet that the angels offer the PCs (my players didn't try it)

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For the spellweaver skeletons, I just used skeletal tomb guardians (MM page 235) and added a set of arms holding discs with arcane runes on them (which you may decide explode when the skeleton dies for some serious damage?). These skeletons are INCREDIBLY deadly! Be careful!

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For the Nabthatoron encounter, I added in 4 barlguras (Subtracting Alek from the XP, this was an encounter three levels higher than my PCs).

Nabthatoron Level 13 Elite Brute XP 1600
Init +10 Perception +10 Truesight
HP 300 Blood 150 +2 to saving throws, +1 Action Point, Speed 8, Fly 8
AC 27 FORT 29 REF 25 WILL 25
Resist 10 variable (3/encoutner)

Pincer Claw: Reach 3 +16 vs. AC 2d8+6 amage

Double Attack: 2 pincer claw attacks. If both hit, target is grabbed.

(Minor) Abyssal Bolt: Ranged 10 +14 vs. REF d10+6

(Encounter, Minor) Blasphemous Word: Close Burst 5 targets enemies +14 vs. Will d10+5 psychic damage, target dazed until end of glabrezu's next turn

(Minor) Chaos Word (Recharge 6): Close Brurst 5 targets enemies +14 vs. FORT d12+7 damage bypasses all resistances

(Encounter, Free) Arcane Fury: When bloodied as an immediate reaction, Nabthatoron can teleport 8 squares, recarges Blasphemous Word.Chaos Word/and can use those powers or an abyssal bolt immediately.

STR 26 CON 20 DEX 17 INT 24 WIS 14 CHA 16

Here's Alek's stats, based on Jaryn. I'm a little worried he has too many hit points, but the Nabthatoron encounter i made is tough.

Alek Tercival, Human Paladin Level 9 Elite Soldier

Medium natural humanoid XP 800

Initiative +8 Senses Perception +4
HP 200; Bloodied 100
AC 23; Fortitude 25, Reflex 23, Will 25
Saving Throws +1
Speed 6
Action Points 1

Greatsword (standard; at-will) Weapon
+14 vs. AC; 1d12 + 9 damage (plus an additional 2d12 damage on a critical hit)

Holy Strike (standard; at-will) Divine, Radiant Weapon
Requires greatsword; +14 vs. AC; 1d12 + 9 radiant damage. If Alek marked the target, he deals an additional 3 damage.

Thunder Smite (standard; encounter; recharges when first bloodied) • Divine, Thunder, Weapon
Requires greatsword; +14 vs. AC; 2d12 + 9 thunder damage, and the target is knocked prone. Can score a critical hit against a marked enemy on a roll of 19–20.

Valiant Strike (standard; at-will) Divine, Weapon
Requires greatsword; +14 vs. AC; 1d12 + 9 radiant damage; Alek gains a bonus to the attack roll equal to +1 per enemy adjacent to him.

Divine Strength (minor; encounter) Divine
Alek applies his Strength bonus (+5) as extra damage on his next attack this turn.

Divine Challenge (minor; at-will) Divine, Radiant
Close burst 5; targets one creature; the target is marked until Alek uses this power against another target. If the target makes an attack that doesn’t include Alek as a target, the target takes a –2 penalty to attack rolls and 6 radiant damage.

Rebuke (immediate reaction)
When Alek is hit by a melee attack, he makes a basic attack.

Alignment Lawful Good Languages Common,
Str 20 (+9) Dex 11 (+4) Wis 16 (+7)
Con 10 (+4) Int 13 (+5) Cha 12 (+5)

Feats Human Perseverance, Improved Initiative, Ritual Caster
Equipment:

Oathblade +2
Critical: + 2d6, or + 2d10 damage against a target marked by Alek
Power (Daily): Minor Action. Alek's next attack against a target marked by him deals an extra d6 damage per plus.

Actually I just looked over your document and I would recommend not throwing the 18th level fire giant at them. In the first adventure, I made the choker in Jzadirune (the one in the trap door of the stage that had the illusory play)a feygrove choker. It was level 12. The heroes were level 2. They couldn't hit it. It was choking the life out of one of them and holding the victim up so that the PCs were hitting their own friend by accident. It was immediately apparent that this was just a slaughter, and I confessed my error to their relief. I changed it on the spot to a cavern choker (level 4) and chalked it up to a 4e learning experience.

Then later, I threw the Grell at them, which was 5 levels higher. It dropped ALL of the party, except the ranger, who was able to kill the creature as it closed in on him.

Throwing stuff more than four levels higher then the party will lead to doom! Doom I tell you!

What I did for the fire giants, was place four 9th level giants in there (i don't have my MM handy). Two were one type, and the other two were forge callers. I believe they were all 9th level, there was probably some scaling involved. I just decided that one of the forge callers was Dugobras, and the other three were his friends/clan/family/assistants.

Same with Nabthatoron.. Although that should be an epic battle, so he should be tough. But I am planning on making Nabthatoron 2 or 3 levels higher than the PCs, and then adding in the demon flunkies. I'm actually opposed to making his allies straight minions though (at this point, the PCs just annihilate minions so they'll be a non-factor and won't add anything to the battle), So I might make Nabthatoron one level higher and then load up on some lower level demon allies.

Although... Alek is there. So that gives us xtra XP to play with. It's going to be a tricky encounter - as Alek is supposed to be killed. That means Nabhatoron will be focusing his attacks on him, and the PCs are free to unload. It might be a tricky battle to run. Alek HAS to go down for the story to work. Otherwise you'll really be in a tough spot to set up the next adventure.

I am actually thinking of maybe giving Nabthatoron an extra daily. A power he can use to annihilate Alek with. So that way, if Nabthatoron is getting his ass whipped and Alek is healthy, Nabthatoron can blast him with this new daily which drops the paladin immediately. "Demonskar Necro Blast" or something... a power that is ultra-effective against a good paladin. Ha ha, maybe I'll even make it a minor to cover my ass.

I also agree with your opinion on the mirror people. They're kind of cool, but ultimately they're useless and confusing. I might have one there, not to fight, but just so the PCs can drag information out of him.

Another note... my players like to knock people out instead of kill, so they can question them (In 4e, you can just declare your intention to knock someone out.. when they drop to 0, they're unconscious instead of dead).

I am certain my players will want to knock out at least one hag. I am thinking that these hags are ancient and nasty. How could a mere mortal get her to talk? Why, a torture skill challenge might do it! Any fan of the show 24 would probably enjoy a skill challenge like that, and my players love 24.

I run my next game friday, I should be doing some statting before then. I can post the stuff here once it's done.

Wish I read this earlier... My group is in Vaprak's Voice, hopefully they'll finish it in the next session.

For the mob scene, I counted the crowd as terrain. I also used the mechanic of rolling randomly to determine which way that the crowd was shifting. If you tried to move against it, you took an attack vs. REF and if it hits, the PC fell prone.

I changed things a bit, using Magma Striders from the MM as the monster. I did that because Magma Striders are cool, and when they charge, everyone adjacent takes flame damage. Seeing how I count all citizens as minions, this creates a horrific scene where all the citizens beneath the strider burst into flame.

I used a bunch of magma striders, using guards to attack the other ones. It also allowed for scenarios where friends of the party were in jeopardy across the map, and they had to get over there to save their friends. I also had in my head the idea of letting the rogue make an acrobatics check to run on the mob. As in, he jumps up and steps on them to travel, kind of like crowd surfing. I had described the crowd as packed like sardines.

My players were also furious when they saw Maavu simply casting spells to protect himself instead of helping. They almost didn't even want to meet up with the chisel.

They also were very confused about the whole Alek Tercival challenge thing... despite the fact that I had well established the Old Law of Peers long ago. I'd also dangled Alek in front of them numerous times, but they never really talked to him aside from one encounter which the warlock doesn't remember!

Traveling through the jungle.. I changed the encounters a bit. The gnoll ambush went really well. The gnolls were challenging!

I changed the other encounters. I'm in the process of streamlining a bit. I've decided to have a few cagewrights attack the PCs. This will give the PCs a good idea of the overall campaign story. And also, as some Cagewrights are killed, other villains will take their place. I want Orbius to be officially a cagewright, and Todd Vanderboren too (my players HATE Todd).

Anyway... I turned the pipe maze into a skill challenge, but it was pretty boring.

The heroes goaded the hill giants (I changed it so that 4 giants guarded the portcullis instead of one). I FORGOT about the noxious lake vapors, which would have changed the whole thing...

But my players taunted the stupid giants into charging down the corridor.

The fire giants were really, really tough. The forgecaller power to create a fireball-like explosion is devastating. The party almost ran. And when the broken, molten anvils started flying, it got crazy. It was a great fight.

They have retreated to the pipe maze to rest, and set up an eye of alarm ritual as protection. I am planning on having the ettins (2 of them!) disturb them. The ettins are dumb, and i will allow the pcs to trick them into letting the heroes get a full rest.

4e Ettins are awesome! Each ettin gets two complete turns per round (with separate initiative roll).

I'm a little worried about having the hags show up disguised as archons after the fight, because my players will see right through it. And I'm not sure how to stat out the amaranth elixir. +8 STR and -4 WIS seems goofy. I'm thinking of going +6 STR and -6 WIS so at least it's balanced.

And I haven't picked out a poison that's appropriate yet. Poisons are extra difficult because the DCs have been errata'd. It can get confusing.

Also am worried about the starry mirror. I don't quite get how they're supposed to figure it out based on the diagram around the throne. It seems like it will get frustrating and I'll end up letting them make a roll to get some clues.

And then there's nabthatoron... I haven't statted him out yet. I guess I'll look at your file, hee hee.

At least post the link here, I'd like to read. Reading other groups summaries helps me get ideas.

Yeah. the hulk had an AC 28. That is high, but remember that most classes have attacks against other defenses. And the party rogue has an insane plus to hit AC anyway. Add in the fact that I had the hulk attacking a building and simply confusion staring them away. Also add in a flanking bonus (+2) and magic weapons (+1), warlords and clerics giving others extra plusses to hit, and their powers knocking it prone, etc.

I just wanted to insure that the heroes didn't annihilate the hulk until he at least got his three rounds of action in. I'd bet you could easily get away with lowering it further. I didn't realise how well the confusion power worked.

I wasn't able to look at your conversions.. the site gave me an error message or something.

Here's the kuo toas. Feel free to tweak away:

Kuo Toa Guard level 5 minion XP 50
INIT +6 HP 1 SPD 6 SWIM 6 Darkvision
AC 20 FORT 17 REF 18 WILL 17
(base)Spear: + 11 vs. AC 5 damage
Slick Maneuver: A Kuo Toa adjacent to the target shifts to another square adjacent to the enemy
Light Armor, Light Shield, Spear
Alignment: Evil Language: Deep Speech Perception +4

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Kuo Toa Marauder level 5 Skirmisher XP 200
INIT +6
HP 63 BLOODIED: 31 SPD 6 SWIM 6 Darkvision
AC 19 FORT 17 REF 18 WILL 16
(base) Skewering Spear: + 10 vs. AC (+12 when bloodied) d6+4 damage, ongoing 5 (save ends)
(immediate reaction) Sticky shield: *when missed by a melee attack* +8 vs. REF, target's weapon is stuck on kuo toa's shield. (I ruled that reaching to grab it is a minor action and provokes an opportunity attack)
(minor, when bloodied) Quick Step: Shift one square
Slick Maneuver: A Kuo Toa adjacent to the target shifts to another square adjacent to the enemy
Light Armor, Slime-covered Shield, Spear
Alignment: Evil Language: Deep Speech Perception +4

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Kuo Toa Harpooner level 5 Soldier XP 200
INIT +7
HP 65 BLOODIED: 32 SPD 6 SWIM 6 Darkvision
AC 21 FORT 18 REF 18 WILL 15
(base) Harpoon: + 11 vs. AC d6+4 damage, target grabbed + takes ongoing 5. While grabbing an opponent, harpooner cannot use the harpoon on other targets.
(base ranged) Reeling Harpoon: Ranged 5/10 +11 vs. ACd6+4, Secondary Attack +9 vs. FORT d6+4 damage and pull target 3 squares
(immediate reaction) Sticky shield: *when missed by a melee attack* +8 vs. REF, target's weapon is stuck on kuo toa's shield.
(minor, when bloodied) Quick Step: Shift one square
Slick Maneuver: A Kuo Toa adjacent to the target shifts to another square adjacent to the enemy
Light Armor, Slime-covered Shield, 4 harpoons
Alignment: Evil Language: Deep Speech Perception +4

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Kuo Toa Monitor level 5 Skirmisher XP 200
INIT +7
HP 60 BLOODIED: 30 SPD 6 SWIM 6 Darkvision
AC 19 FORT 17 REF 18 WILL 16
(base) Slam: +10 vs. AC 2d10 +4 damage
(base ranged) Crossbow: Ranged 15/30 +10 vs. AC d8 +5
(at will)Leap Kick: Shift two squares and make a slam attack
(Encounter, melee) Lightning Fist: +8 vs. REF 3d8 +4 lightning damage and the target is stunned (save ends)
(minor, when bloodied) Quick Step: Shift one square
Slick Maneuver: A Kuo Toa adjacent to the target shifts to another square adjacent to the enemy
Light Armor, Crossbow, 20 bolts
Alignment: Evil Language: Deep Speech Perception +4

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Kuo Toa Whip level 5 Controller XP 200
INIT +7
HP 68 BLOODIED: 34 SPD 6 SWIM 6 Darkvision
AC 19 FORT 17 REF 17 WILL 17
(base) Pincer Staff: Reach 2 +10 vs. AC d6+4 and target is grabbed by the staff. the Kuo Toa can sustain this grab as a minor action and automatically deal d8 damage to the target. Victim can escape using the normal 4e escape rules.
(base ranged) Crossbow: Ranged 15/30 +10 vs. AC d8 +5
(at will) Lightning Strike: Ranged 10 +9 vs. REFd6+4, target blinded until the end of Whip's next turn
(Encounter) Slime Vortex: Area Burst 4 within 20 targets enemies +9 vs. FORT, d6+4 damagetarget takes -2 to hit(save ends) and slides 3 squares and falls prone(!)
Miss: 1/2 damage, target slides 1 square
(minor, when bloodied) Quick Step: Shift one square
Slick Maneuver: A Kuo Toa adjacent to the target shifts to another square adjacent to the enemy
Pincer Staff
Alignment: Evil Language: Deep Speech Perception +4

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My players immediately wanted to use the sticky shields and harpoons to do the same things the Kuo Toas did. I ruled that they'd have to train and spend feats to use them. But that might be a fun option to consider for your group. I'm still not sure if I made the right call there. I was just afraid things would get out of hand - the shields basically introduce disarming an opponent to 4e.

As for the Mummy, I just used the mummy and flameskull out of the 4e MM. It wasn't very effective.

As far as the wraith in the pit trap room, I didn't bother with it. One wraith is not going to do much, even if a PC does fall in the pit. You could easily use a bunch of wraiths, but I found that we had gotten our money's worth out of this dungeon as it was, and the wraith just felt like it would slow things down.

What I ended up doing with the umber hulk was to make him 4 levels higher then the party, and to position the hulk closer to the building with the baby in it. My party does a lot of movement-hampering attacks, so I decided if I wanted to do the "baby drop" (and I did, it was great) I'd have to guarantee that the hulk could do that.

The hulk's confusion utterly dominated my group. It sent them all scrambling. I was not concerned about a TPK, because I knew the magical threats agency could drop on in any old time to make a save.

The Cryohydra will be tricky. I ended up re-scaling a normal hydra and adding an acid breath from another hydra creature (don't have my books handy). A warning: Sleep will wreak havoc on solo monsters. My party dropped the hydra with sleep and hacked it to bits with a bunch of coup de gras.

I would highly highly recommend taking the time to scale the kuo toas. You'll have to take their powers and figure out the appropriate plusses, as scaling them down from their MM levels doesn't work out right at all. I ended up with kuo toas who had a decent plus to hit, but did low damage. It worked out perfectly. Especially with their sticky shields that snatch weapons away on a miss.

The temple inside Bhal Hamatugn can be done in many different ways. 4E designers seem to love to throw 2-3 encounters right in a row with no rest, and you could do that in this room. I decided against using the erinyes (re-flavoring it to fit my campaign) and had the statue feeding the whips' lightning bolts, giving them more than normal damage. You might want to create a skill challenge that allows the heroes to de-power the statue.

I would also suggest that you use whatever opportunity to have the heroes get attacked when they're boating across the lake. My players had to leave bhal hamatugn and come back, and they were utterly petrified of the black dragon attacking them while they were on the boat. I ended up having a bunch of kuo toas lurking in the lake, and they tipped the party's boat and we had an underwater combat. Underwater combat in 4e is LETHAL. But... fun!

I messed up the mummy and wraith encounter. What I did was use a mummy and a flameskull. I allowed my thief to sneak down the hall, get off a sneak attack, and then run away, leading the monsters around the corner where the PCs were waiting to open fire. The thief shouldn't have been able to sneak as close as he did, because the mummy had a direct line of sight to him. Mummy Rot did strike though, and man that is no joke.

If you're interested, I can post my kuo toas. They're one of the few conversions I've been totally happy with.

I have found a decent way to deal with the sleep spell. The whole group is aware that the spell is "broken". But I have a deal with them.. any time they use it, they can expect an opponent to use it against them in a future encounter.

So it works out OK. The Oni's sleep-like ability (hallucinatory breath I think it is called) very nearly led to a TPK. Everyone but one PC fell unconscious.

One interesting thing about 4e is just how deadly a cloud of darkness is. I made Dhorlot the black dragon (from Zenith Trajectory) right out of the MM - 4th level solo. The party was 6th level. They had to run from him.

They ended up fighting him in a cramped hallway (long story) and he dropped the cloud of darkness. They could blindly swing at him with a -5 to hit, and that's it. They didn't have line of sight due to the cloud.

The last couple weeks a few people couldn't make it. But when everyone can make it, they plan on going back to Bhal Hamatugn to kill Dhorlot, even though they've already brought back Zenith and finished the actual quest!

I've been running some side adventures for the players who could make it. We did one where they killed a Jester (I made Ziguarz the goblin alchemist from a recent Dragon Magazine article a Jester) and now the party thief is the 5th Jester, with his ally Jil the 4th.

And I ran one where the party wizard discovered he was a long lost descendant of Surabar Spellmason.

Shackled City is a fun campaign. The storyline could have been better - and there is the problem of the heroes never really interacting with the villains (all 2 billion of them), but as a DM you can do a lot with what they give you.

There is an actual chance that my party may go all the way to 30th level in the path. They are leveling according to the 4e book (a bit fast IMO, but whatever). They just hit 7th level, and we're only at the end of the 3rd adventure out of 11 (I'm using magazines, not the hardcover).

In all seriousness, in my campaign, instead of stairs leading out of the room, it will be a ramp leading to a wide, arched doorway. I'll make Dhorlot's room bigger, and have a secret tunnel at the rear that leads out of the complex, and under the lake.

And not so seriously, I think I'll make it a Dragon Bachelor Pad.

I'll optionally add a plush heart-shaped bed with a switch that causes the bed to slowly spin & vibrate. Mirrors on the roof and a magic mouth that occasionally fires up with some Barry White music.

What is Kua-Toan for "Can't get enough of your love, Babe" and "This is going to hurt me more than it hurts you, Baby."

;)

That's pretty hilarious haha. When I read this adventure, I had Dhorlot in my head as a minor encounter. The PCs are higher level than him. But things took an unexpected turn when the PCs hacked up piles of kuo-toans, set off an alert, and then tried to take a 6 hour rest in the armory.

Ultimately, the kuo toans found out where the PCs were, and Dhorlot decided to investigate. He went to the armory and tried to make them a deal - he'd let them go if they gave him their female. Their female is the party paladin.

The PCs tried to fight him, but the 4E cloud of darkness is pure death in a cramped hallway. The PCs had to run.

Next session, they came back to the temple focusing on dealing with Dhorlot. But they ended up finding and killing Zenith instead. I thought to myself "well good, the dragon can just stay there. He was giving them trouble". But the players made it very clear to me that after they handed Zenith over to Gortio that they were going back for Dhorlot!

At the beginning of that session, they had rested back in Gottrod's cave lair (not too far from the Pit of Seven Jaws). I had thrown an encounter at them where they found a small orc camp. The male orcs of the camp attacked and the PCs killed them. Then they saw the females. I tried to portray the orc females as just horrible, evil women. Smacking their spawn, even evidence of them eating one of their own children.

My idea was that they could offer these orc women to Dhorlot for safe passage. But they either didn't realize that was a possibility, or more likely, they were not interested. They want to kill the Dragon-Father.

I may not put in a rotating heart-shaped bed, but I should probably make some kind of "passion area" where Dhorlot takes his fish-maidens.

We played our first session playing the official H1 adventure last night usiing 4E and it went great. That whole thing has re-instilled in me the interest in revisiting converting SCAP to 4E again. So I came back here and re-read this lot.

Three questions to the DMs who are tackling this conversion:

1. Do you do encounter conversions on the fly? Or pre-prepare them?
2. How do you convert levelled NPCs (I've not read the DMG/MM yet so dont know if there is a standard way to make NPCs without going to all the hassle of making them PC copies).
3. How are you dealing with treasure?

Cheers!
Blakey

1. I would strongly recommend that you do not convert on the fly. A lot of the 3e encounters have, say, two skulks. That just doesn't cut it in 4e. I found that adding more skulks worked reasonably well. You have H1 which is a good reference.. as you can see in there, most encounters have piles of creatures. You'll need to plan out encounters before hand, keeping track of the XP value and everything.

2. Leveled NPCs... You can find most of them in the MM. Gnomes are in there. Human guards are in there. For the last laugh guys in the first encounter, I used the human bandits in the MM. Leveling them up and down is easy. It's in chapter 10 of the DMG. And put on class templates from the DMG if you want, though that's a touch more work.

3. Treasure was a headache for the first adventure. The 4e treasure system is very... strict, i guess is the word. In the first adventure, Jzadirune is overloaded with treasure. You'll need to go through and place parcels. I took some of the cool non-magic items, like candelabras and music boxes, and just gave them a gold value equal to a parcel. My players like that better than just plain boring gold.

There was one room where it was a real pain. There was a suit of gnomish plate mail full of gold, along with all sorts of valuable treasure. I had to get rid of almost all of it, leaving a rusted suit of plate filled with copper coins.

Converting to 4e is tricky, but not overly time consuming. It's a great way to learn the system.

Converting NPCs is not that difficult. Most races have stats in the MM. Then just level them up or down as per the guidelines in the DMG, which is only a few steps. Also, you can slap on a class template, like the ranger for the Striders of Fharlagn.

You're right about encounters though. A lot of them need to be re-worked. 4e seems to be all about encounters with many enemies. I just ran the first half of Zenith Trajectory, where the first three encounters dealt with an Umber Hulk, a Red Dragon and a Hydra! The Hydra encounter got blown wide open when the wizard's sleep spell got through. Then they all surrounded it and coup de grace'd it while it slept. Auto crits, all. They chopped it to bits.

I'm not sure what to do about the sleep spell. But it seems to "break" solo monster encounters.

I haven't been happy with many of my conversions, but I'm starting to get the hang of it. A lot of times, I adjust their stats on the fly.

The Harpoon Spider from Flood Season worked well though. The room before it had some ettercaps. The encounter in the module had it set up so Skaven ran to the spider, invisible. But my players went through the spider caves before running in to Skaven. So what I did was, I had the harpoon spider attack as the heroes were still fighting the ettercaps. It went perfectly.

Harpoon Spider Elite level 4 worth 350 XP
HP 126 Blood 63
Resist 5 poison
INIT +8 +2 saving throws Speed 6 (probably should have climb 6 too)
1 Action Point
Bite +9 vs. AC 2d6+3 slowed, ongoing 5 poison (save ends)
Harpoon +7 vs. REF d6+3 knocks target prone, pulls target three squares
Impale on spines: +7 vs REF d10+4 target is impaled on the spider's back. Getting off takes a standard action
Spines: Anyone attacking the spider with a small weapon takes 5 damage from the spines.

Those plusses to hit might be a little high. I don't have my DMG around and I can't read my handwriting too well.

Have a look at the document called 'The Seige of Redgorge' before you kill your Stormblades off. The Invasion could offer your party the opportunity and excuse to wipe out the noble adventure party. The only problem is that the Seige occurs during chapter 6 which may be too long a wait for you.

If you are interested search this forum for the thread dedicated too it or theRPGenius.com achive.

Good luck with the new years eve ball and your party in general.

Delvesdeep

Hmmm I will definitely look into the Siege of Redgorge, that might be really cool. Plus, there seems to be a slight issue in the campaign where the PCs get a little behind where they should be with XP, so I'm always up for side adventures.

I used a portion of the Demonskar Ball scenario in my last adventure. I placed it during a New Year's celebration. I put many of the non-noble NPCs there. Everyone from Keygan and Starbrow to the Striders.

First came the singing competition, The "Song of Heaven". I had planned it to be simple - a bard who they had paid to write songs about them was in the competition and would likely win. One of the PCs would be part of a "celebrity judge" panel and help decide the outcome.

But what ended up happening was that two of the PCs entered the singing competition. One PC, Forvan (a dragonborn warlord) was a celebrity judge, along with a couple NPCs. There was Finterwold (a nerdy kid who criticized everything, that Forvan enjoys bullying). And Conrad the Executioner, the city executioner. He had publicly be-headed Triel Eldurast just a few days before. Conrad wears his black pointy hood with the eyeholes almost everywhere (just because the idea makes me laugh).

Mr. Pip, one of the PCs, rolled really high and destroyed the competition in singing, like that opera guy on Britain's got talent. But when the judges deliberated, both of the NPCs just wanted to vote for the hottest woman. Forvan used intimidate on Finterwold to make him change his vote.

While the judges deliberated, the other PCs hopped on stage and put on an impromptu juggling show. Mr Pip and Sagan (the thief) did a juggling act (and made their rolls) while Kelvamin the wizard put on a light show. By the time the judges were ready, the crowd was chanting for the "Vanquishers" (which is the party name).

Mr. Pip was declared the winner.

Then came the dancing part, where there's two magic circles and everyone has to dance around them in a figure eight pattern. I warned the players that a bad roll would mean an embarrassing collision, and that people in the city would talk about it. But to my surprise they all entered anyway.

The favorites to win were Fario and Skie. The potential couple to collide with was Rufus (the cleric they rescued in the very first encounter of the campaign) and a "lady" from a place I made up called "The Devil's Horns". So the PCs all rolled... and did well. In fact, Sagan and Shensen Tesseril were out ahead. And then I rolled for Fario and Skie... and rolled a one! They collided with Rufus, the crowd laughed, and Fario's gonna stay inside for a month or so.

So Sagan won. Then everyone enjoyed a magic light show cpnsisting of magic images in the sky depicting big moments of the gods in my campaign (most of the good gods are former characters).

All in all, the players loved it and it was pretty much one of the highlights of the campaign. Thanks delvesdeep, you are extremely helpful!

I just had no idea they were taking the stormblades thing so personally. My plan now is to have the heroes hear that the stormblades are going through rough times (Zachary breaks up with Cora, etc.)... and eventually, an evil entity takes over Zachary Aslaxin and the stormblades just flat out try to kill the PCs outside of the city. The PCs can kill them and that will take care of that. I'll have to look for a dramatic location for this fight to take place in.

I'm running a session tommorrow, I've cooked up a little new year's celebration and I'll scavenge what I can from the Demonskar Ball and let you know how it went!

Well, I had been eagerly anticipating running the Ball. I knew my players would love it. But now they've decided not to attend.

They have hated Todd Vanderboren of the Stormblades since adventure one. They knew that the city guard were lenient with the nobles, due to the olde law of peers (and later because of the "hostility" law in the rpgenius _laws of cauldron_ file I found and put into effect a few sessions ago).

Just prior to establishing "hostility" and other laws, the PCs faced off against the Stormblades in a few Flood Festival events. The big one was a wrestling competition. The finals came down to Cora Lathenmire versus our party's romantic rogue. His rolls were crazy good. He had an epic wrestling match with her, while her concerned boyfriend Zachary Aslaxin looked on. My dice suddenly ran cold, and his were on fire. The battle had gone on so long that they had been making endurance checks, and he had made his while she was on the verge of passing out...

So as he pinned her 1, 2, 3... the rogue kissed her. Right in front of Zachary Aslaxin. The crowd was simultaneously elated and stunned. Our winner got the heck out of there. After that session, I discovered the "hostility" law (where a noble could actually prosecute someone for parodying or humiliating them). I sent out an email establishing the law, but making it clear that the rogue would not be penalized for his prior actions.

After I emailed the laws out to them, the players decided not to go to the Demonskar Ball because they didn't want to be on eggshells around the Stormblades. They also were upset that I had previously used the Stormblades to go on side missions that the heroes passed on, and then the Stormblades would rub their noses in it.

I am still baffled by all this. I can only guess that they were taking the Stormblades insults personally. I sometimes laugh during the game as I roleplay the Stormblades, because I get a kick out of playing a jerk character. I am thinking maybe they think it's a player vs. DM kind of thing? So I've pretty much phased out the Stormblades, as apparently they are dampening the players' enjoyment of the entire adventure path.

So. The Demonskar Ball is not happening for them. But I am going to use whatever I can salvage from Delvesdeep's work as part of a New Year's festival for the next session.

Well, I'm running Shackled City using 4E rules, so my experience varies depending on how well I can convert these monsters. In addition, I am playing with a group that hates dying. As in, they don't even want to play in a campaign where they can die. Prior to this I hadn't played with them in 3 years due in large part to this issue. The whole experience just feels lame when there's no real risk.

Life's Bazaar:
1. The party ranger died in the battle against the hobgoblins on the elevator. He failed his checks, and the paladin went out of her way not to save him (he uhh had done something very very controversial and this was her revenge). Once he was dead, she stabbed him again and flung his corpse down the 500 foot elevator shaft. She's unaligned...

2. The Grell nearly dealt out a TPK. Three of the four party members dropped, and I "forgot" to have them roll some saves while the ranger heroically slew the beast. This encounter was not balanced correctly by yours truly. I believe it was 5 levels above them... I used the grell right out of the MM.

Flood Season:
I got the hang of converting encounters. A few times a PC went down, but nothing too deadly. The most memorable part of the whole adventure was when they encountered Triel taking a bath. She fought them naked, as suggested in the module.

I'm just starting Zenith Trajectory this week. They're 5th level, so it should be interesting to see how they fare against Gottrod the 7th level dragon (right out of the MM).

Fantomas wrote:

I have just begun a Shackled City campaign (converting it to 4e), and I will be running this ball in a few weeks. I have always had a rule of thumb when DMing - "players love in-game parties". I consider these parties my specialty. This one looks to be the mother of them all. Can't wait to run it, thanks for all the work put into it!

Now back to the gear doors of Jzadirune....

I really dont want to derail this thread but seeing as I can't PM you Fantomas, can you tell me how hard you are finding converting SCAP to 4E?

I have just started to read up the 4E rules and really like what I see, but suspect converting NPCs to them will be hard.

Perhaps you can start a new thread about your conversion (I'm sure you're not the only one doing such a thing) and we can all chip in? Personally, I'd like to rip your work off for my own use... :D

P.S. Total long shot but you're not the same Fantomas who is a dwarven warrior on Kilrogg server of WoW are ya?

Hey Blakey, I am not the same Fantomas. That guy probably has my taste in music though.

I just made a post about my conversion trials in the 4e thread. Converting takes a bit of time, but it's not too bad. I feel a little funny posting my conversions on here, as some have come out wonky and just plain not good. For instance, I made the pulverizer automaton an Elite creature, and it was way, way too difficult for the party. The 3e version of the creature had it operating each round only if it rolled an 11 or higher on a d20. I changed that, so that the rolls began when it became bloodied. It was ugly.

Also, another tricky thing is the treasure. In the module, there iss stuff with hundreds and even thousands of gold. 4e has a strict "parcel" system where the PCs should have a certain amount of gold in treasure. It has required massive scaling down. I made the gnome plate mail full of coins into a rusted plate filled with copper. It's a pain.

But hey, if people are interested I can start a thread. I guess I could put notes in on how challenging each encounter was. The dark creeper blindness cloud is really cool.

I have been running Shackled City as 4e for a few weeks now. Converting does take a bit of work, but I like it. It helps me become more familiar with the 4e rules. My players are grinding through Jzadirune still. Luckily, Dark Creepers are in the MM. And for the skulks, I just use the "gnome skulk" stats in the 4e MM.

There have been a few hiccups. I had the one skulk in Ghelve's Locks turning and staying invisible until he attacked, no matter what. It actually made the encounter more exciting though, heh heh. The players have been very forgiving when stuff like that comes up. Especially when I foolishly put a FEYGROVE (level 12) choker in the gnome illusion play room. We were heading for a TPK on that one.

Oh yeah... I made the spiders in the fountain room deathjump spiders. The heroes had to run. The battle wasn't even close! Now that they've hit second level, they may go back and give it another shot.

The one thing I've noticed with 4e is that the encounters are very even. When you throw an encounter that is even slightly more than 1/10th the XP they need for next level, you're looking at a potential TPK.

I like the module, but I break it up a bit with some encounters at the Slippery Eel (their bar of choice). The grind can be a little boring, especially with all the empty rooms in Jzadirune.

I can't wait to run the Demonskar Ball as presented in a thread on this site. All of the material here is extremely helpful.

I have just begun a Shackled City campaign (converting it to 4e), and I will be running this ball in a few weeks. I have always had a rule of thumb when DMing - "players love in-game parties". I consider these parties my specialty. This one looks to be the mother of them all. Can't wait to run it, thanks for all the work put into it!

Now back to the gear doors of Jzadirune....