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Manshoon

FallofCamelot's page

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps Subscriber. FullStarFullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 1,873 posts (1,892 including aliases). 7 reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 13 Pathfinder Society characters. 9 aliases.


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Silver Crusade

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I can only go by my experience.

I live in England. All my life I have lived in a system of Nationalised healthcare. No one I have ever met considers the NHS to be anything other than a source of national pride. It was in the opening of the 2012 Olympics for Pete's sake.

When a relative got breast cancer her treatment was free and on the NHS (and successful I might add.) I know people whose children had life threatening conditions at birth, the treatment was paid for. When one of my in laws tripped and broke her hip she was rushed to hospital in a free ambulance to a state of the art facility where she received free care until she was back on her feet and free physiotherapy afterwards.

In our country this is the norm.

On the other hand I have an American friend who last week sent out a request on Facebook asking if anyone knew a doctor who could examine her as a favour because she's felt ill for ages and can't afford to visit one.

Now I'm not saying our system is the best in the world, nor am I saying that America sucks, it does many things better than where I am from. But healthcare is not one of them. You pay more for a system that does not cover everybody and generally offers inferior care to most people.

Honestly in the 21st century free universal healthcare should be a basic right of a citizen.

Silver Crusade

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Moondragon Starshadow wrote:
HAN SHOT! GREEDO DIDN'T!

Fixed that for you.

Silver Crusade

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DrDeth wrote:
Tholomyes wrote:
I like to have death be relatively rare, but, for the most part, final.

So you have two choices:

Either the player brings in a new PC, which break continuity and adds wealth to the party, or the player has to sit out until next campaign?

OK the second one is silly. No-one is suggesting that outside Dark Dungeons.

The first one takes some management and doesn't break continuity unless you let it.

Neither is worse than immortal heroes.

Silver Crusade

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Wow the level of player entitlement on these boards sometimes is unbelievable.

Silver Crusade

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DrDeth wrote:

For all those complaining Raise dead is too easy:Oh yeah.

Players: “Hey Bob, we have to go on a quest for about 4 nites of gaming in order to raise you, so I guess you can just stay home or you can play my Mount.”

Bob: “yeah, sounds like real fun. Look, instead- here’s Knuckles the 87th , go ahead and loot Knuckles the 86th body. He's got some cool stuff."

The whole idea of “death should mean something” becomes meaningless when we all realize that D&D is a Game, Games should be Fun, and in order to have Fun you have to Play. Thereby, when a Player’s PC dies either you Raise him or he brings in another. Raising is preferable story-wise, and costs resources. Bringing in another costs continuity and actually increases party wealth. Not to mention, instead of an organic played-from-1st-PC we have a PC generated at that level, which can lead to some odd min/maxing.

The third alternative is “Sorry Bob, Knuckles is dead. You’re out of the campaign, we’ll let you know when the next one is starting, should be in about a year or so.’ Really?

Another point is that the game isn't fun if there is no risk. None of my players like the raise dead merry-go-round it's just part of the game.

My players have just refused to have their 18th level characters raised. These players played their characters from 1st level but are refusing to have True Resurrection cast even though they know someone who can cast it. Why? Because they think that it is cheap. They would rather bring in new characters for 2 levels because they feel that the integrity of the game suffers from deus-ex-clerica.

Silver Crusade

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ryric wrote:

Yeah, I actually don't see the problems others have with raise type magic.

-It generally requires 9th+ level casters, so we're already in fairly crazy land for what can be done magically.

A facility which (under the rules) is available in any town with more than a couple of thousand inhabitants isn't exactly rare or unusual. It's pretty much as common as having a cinema is in our world.

Quote:
-The individual has to want to come back, which many won't.

I get that some people are ready for death but most people aren't and want to do more. Otherwise how do you explain the popularity of Sun Orchard Elixir in Golarion?

Quote:
-It's crazy expensive unless you have a kingdom or adventurer level budget. Bob the farmer might want to bring his wife back, but his 5 sp of on-hand cash doesn't help him get the required diamond, even if his church is willing to cast the actual spell for free.

I get that Joe Bloggs the farmer isn't going to get raised, that's obvious. But "kingdom level wealth" isn't necessary to get 5,000 GP's worth of wealth. A galley full of wheat works out at being 3,000gps for the cargo alone, the same galley full of iron is a whopping 30,000gps.

Or put it this way. A luxurious suite at an inn is 32gps a day. if it were occupied for only half a year that's enough money to pay for a raise dead. Just for one suite. Even an average quality inn with say 12 decent rooms can clear over 7,000gps a year quite easily.

So successful business owners can afford this kind of expense easily. That doesn't even touch nobility.

Quote:
-Let's say the king is assassinated. Break out the treasury and have him raised, right? What if his heir doesn't want that? The kid's the new king, maybe he think dad should enjoy his heavenly reward and let junior do the ruling.

Sure that's a possibility. But equally possible is that the cunning king has already pre paid for a raise dead. Or maybe the heir doesn't want to rule just yet? Or plain loves his father? All those are equally likely.

Quote:
So for adventurers, death is a minor inconvenience. This is a good thing as it prevent a player from having to sit out or make a new character who may be less invested in the ongoing plotline. Even Conan in the 80s movie was returned from the dead, and that's a fairly low-magic setting.

And rare. In the movie it was a plot point, a major focus of a substantial part of the story.

Raising the dead in Pathfinder on the other hand is a simple case of visiting a decent sized town. Meh.

Worse it cheapens death. Death should not be a minor annoyance. In Pathfinder it is.

Quote:
For NPCs, there are all sorts of ways to justify why they might not be raised. It's up to the GM to decide if they need to come back.

Sure but verisimilitude must be maintained. If a merchant can do it why not (say) a Baron with significant resources and many friends?

As a GM I can make up whatever rules I like but they have to be consistent with the setting I place them in.

This is like Final Fantasy VII. Aeris dies (I'd say spoiler but seriously the spoiler statute of limitations has expired on this one by now.) So why don't you just use phoenix down?

Because reasons, that's why.

If you make Resurrection this easy to obtain then it is part of the metaphysics of the world. In that case anything you do to try to hand wave that is irrelevant. That is simply how the world works.

I can make up excuses as to why not but at the end of the day that's not addressing the issue. It's the world building equivalent of healing a decapitation with a band aid.

Silver Crusade

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Absolutely.

One of my major problems with the system is that death is easily reversed and doesn't mean anything.

There is a PFS scenario where a major character gets killed and stays dead. Why? Under the rules any settlement of reasonable size (including the one where he got killed) will have someone who can cast raise dead. So it's ridiculous that he wouldn't be able to just pop back to life. Anyone playing that scenario didn't think "Oh my god they killed him off!" they thought "Erm... can't we just fetch a cleric?"

I would much rather have a system whereby any form of resurrection is at least an 8th or (preferably) 9th level spell. To compensate for that there should be spells available that prevent you from dying for x number of rounds. That would be a better system for me.

Silver Crusade

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Damian Magecraft wrote:
LazarX wrote:
1. Don't make the assumption that your "experience" is typical.

The same could be said for your stance.

35 years of gaming (on both sides of the gm screen) and discussions with other players from all walks of life (over that 35 years) says my experiences are the norm

My 30 years of gaming (on both sides of the GM screen) and discussions with other players from all walks of life (over that 30 years) says that your experiences are not the norm.

Silver Crusade

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Deadmanwalking wrote:
Belkzen: Uh...orcs. no real-world equivalent.

Head into any British city centre after 11pm on a Saturday night. You'll see quite a few Orcs at that point, trust me...

Silver Crusade **

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...My wife is running.

(seriously she's like the grim reaper of character sheets...)

Silver Crusade **

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Guys. Seriously let's stop the negativity before this gets unpleasant.

I'm sure the Paizo staffers have better things to do with their time than patrol the messageboards to keep order. It's a thankless task I'm sure.

I'm sure that they have also taken note of the OP's concerns and the responses to it.

Can we all just move on? Or is that too much to ask?

Silver Crusade

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Can we have a follow up called "Magnificent Bastards of Golarion?"

Silver Crusade

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Katara from Legend of Korra counts. Admittedly we see far more of her as a teenager.

Lin Beifong is a badass as well but I wouldn't call her old.

Silver Crusade

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Erm...

So... Plane Shift?

Silver Crusade **

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I always felt that factions were tagged on and took up way too much time. Now faction missions are interesting and special.

Too often faction missions were "go into this room, make skill check "x" with a DC of "y."" It was rare to have an interesting mission.

Worse, the missions often spoilered the scenario and took up half the scenario running time on occasion. Good riddance.

Silver Crusade

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One of the NPC's has to be an Android Druid with a cat animal companion called Spot.

Get on it Mr Jacobs! :)

Silver Crusade **

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Raptor Island in the Shackles.

Silver Crusade

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1992 wants its problem back.

Silver Crusade **

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One of those "Make sure every player is comfortable with this before I do it" kind of things...

Silver Crusade

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Wearing longcoats and irritating the Winchester brothers?

Silver Crusade

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I played a Forgotten Realms game through to 34th level. At a certain point you basically become the Justice League or the Authority.

It's a case of:

1) Bad guys do bad thing
2) We teleport in
3) Bad guys get turned into paint

Silver Crusade **

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Shifty wrote:
FallofCamelot wrote:
I'm sure you are. Surprised you remember what winning feels like.

See that's just it, we don't remember, so it's like discovering it all over again and we are summoning unicorns and rainbows n' stuff.

But not summoning undead; that would be controversial :p

Heh.

I'm pretty certain a team of zombies could have put up a better performance than England though...

Silver Crusade **

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Patrick Harris @ MU wrote:
FallofCamelot wrote:
As a result at you have a responsibility to make sure that everybody at your table is going to be cool with you playing that. If you insist on playing that and don't compromise or offer to play another character then you are being unreasonable.

You say, "You have a responsibility to not offend characters who were built to be offended by legal choices."

I say, "You have a responsibility not to build characters who are offended by legal choices."

I have a character that eats babies. Oh Mr Paladin? This offends you? Tough! Mwahaha! It's legal baby!

Silver Crusade **

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Patrick Harris @ MU wrote:
FallofCamelot wrote:
Bottom line you are casting an evil spell and committing an evil act.
Casting a spell with the evil descriptor is not an inherently evil action in Pathfinder Society Organized Play.

Desecrating a corpse is.

Silver Crusade **

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Honestly, you should know that creating a character who uses Animate Dead on a regular basis has the potential to cause conflict with other characters. It's provocative, whether you want it to be or not.

My first character in PFS was an inquisitor of Pharasma, that's not a controversial character. An undead raising character is a controversial character. So yes the onus is on the undead raising character to tread carefully and be aware that your choices may cause issues for other players.

My inquisitor is not a religious fanatic, he is prepared to bite his tongue in pursuit of pathfinder goals and deal with people who he finds distasteful. However having someone animating dead in front of him is the same as having someone saying "Oh I summon creatures by desecrating your holy symbol" there are limits to explore, report, co-operate.

Bottom line you are casting an evil spell and committing an evil act. Every PFS character is either good or neutral. By playing this character you are stepping on a load of toes and you should know this. Therefore you should be prepared to not play this character where it will upset other players. I do that, it's common courtesy.

Of course it's better that you sort out a compromise but really it's not fair that the necromancer gets to dictate terms to the table, when it's his character that's causing the problem.

Silver Crusade **

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"Hi guys before we start I'm playing a Necromancer that raises and utilises undead. Will that cause any problems for anyone round the table? I have an alternate character if it's a problem."

Problem solved.

Silver Crusade

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Honestly I share some of the disappointment in this AP.

I have run Kingmaker, Carrion Crown, Curse of the Crimson Throne, Jade Regent and Legacy of Fire through to completion. I have also played Second Darkness and Shackled City through to completion and I am most of the way through Rise of The Runelords and Age of Worms as a GM and Skull and Shackles as a player.

This AP is the first one I haven't got any enthusiasm for running.

My problem is that the AP is one long series of fetch quests that you are forced to do on literal pain of death on behalf of a legendary evil. The nature of the AP leads it to be incoherant and episodic and at no point do the players choose to do anything, they are pretty much told to find each magic football in order with no player input at all.

Linear plots are fine, I like linear plots. This one though grabs the PC's and forces them down a set course. The places you go are interesting but really who cares if you have no reason to be there other than to find the Magic Football of Bob?

The worst thing though is the fact that you are racing to save a legendary evil to stop a lesser evil. All you are is the errand boys for the real big bad. No big damn heroes, just a witches b##$@es.

This one's sitting on my shelf, I doubt it will do anything other than gather dust.

Silver Crusade

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ZipTucker wrote:
Im still not convinced by any of you that attacks require an attack roll by definition. Your citations, fretgod99, only say that thos things require attack rolls, not that they are the beallendall of attacks.

Trust me on this everybody on this thread is correct. Sneak attack requires an attack roll, always has, always will.

You have come on here asking for the combined wisdom of the PF community, they have all told you the same thing including wraithstrike who knows his stuff. I also know a tonne of experienced GM's who run it this way, including probably about 8 PFS venture officers. Do you really think everyone is getting it wrong? In exactly the same way? No, me neither.

You have asked for advice, it's been given and it is correct, best to be gracious and say thanks.

Or you could continue to argue the point but trust me, that's the way it works.

Hope that helps. :)

Silver Crusade

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Cleric: "My commune spell has revealed that Razmir is a fraud"
Razmiran Priest: "Well your god would say that wouldn't he?"

Silver Crusade **

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redward wrote:
FallofCamelot wrote:

All this does is make things more difficult for people to go to conventions. I should be at a convention as we speak. I had to pull out of said convention this weekend because I couldn't physically carry the books I needed for my 12 PFS characters.

This ruling (or rather the enforcing of this ruling) prevented me from playing PFS not because I don't own the materials, but rather because transporting these materials that I have paid for is impossible.

This policy does not encourage people to play and doesn't help to spread PFS. Please reconsider it.

You only need the books for all 12 characters if you intend to play all 12 characters. If space/weight becomes a factor, you can always limit the characters you bring or the items/abilities/spells that they use.

I prefer to choose my character at the table based on the makeup of the group. I shouldn't have to restrict my choices because the damn books are too heavy to cart around.

That said I'm aware you are trying to be constructive and I thank you for that.

Silver Crusade **

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All this does is make things more difficult for people to go to conventions. I should be at a convention as we speak. I had to pull out of said convention this weekend because I couldn't physically carry the books I needed for my 12 PFS characters.

This ruling (or rather the enforcing of this ruling) prevented me from playing PFS not because I don't own the materials, but rather because transporting these materials that I have paid for is impossible.

This policy does not encourage people to play and doesn't help to spread PFS. Please reconsider it.

Silver Crusade **

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Silver Crusade.

Silver Crusade

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Monday's Paladin alignment thread folks!

Silver Crusade

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Paladin alignment thread? Must be Monday...

**

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Yup whatchya got here is a good old fashioned Pony infestation. They gets at the roots of yer fandom and then spread throughout the thing if your not careful.

Luckily I gots me some hardcore Norwegian death metal back in the van. You fix me a cup o joe and I'll have them outta here faster than you can say "Fluttershy's head just exploded"

Silver Crusade

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What are they good for? Absolutely everything! (say it again y'all)

Silver Crusade

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Dresden reference? Shakespeare is turning in his grave...

Silver Crusade

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How does it stand up? I've been trying to balance it all night but it just keeps falling over. The books are too thin I think.

I'd recommend some kind of rudimentary stand or similar.

Silver Crusade

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As much as I enjoyed the Lovecraft elements of various Paizo products I would actually prefer not to see a Lovecraft AP. Personally I think less is more when it comes to this sort of stuff and I think that there's a perfectly decent RPG already fully dealing with the Mythos.

Plus another Horror AP after CC is a bit like treading the same ground twice.

Not a criticism just something I would prefer not to see when there are already loads of other arenas to explore within Golarion.

Silver Crusade

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Not wanting to derail this into a Paladin allignment thread (heavens forfend) but isn't a Paladin doing a deal with a known CE creature a bit dodgy? And isn't then breaking that deal even more dodgy?

For me? Sue them. Seriously. The Dragon should take them to court. They had a legal agreement and as lawful characters they should stick to it. Sure the Dragon is CE but I would think he would enjoy beating the PC's with their own stupid rules.

Give it a couple of sessions and then have a few inevitables turn up demanding reparations be paid to the Dragon.

They won't be expecting it

Silver Crusade

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Draco Bahamut wrote:
4- A new Varisian AP, because metaploting its fun.

Please not more Varisia. Anything but Varisia.

Silver Crusade

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Gorbacz wrote:
There's a strong and vocal group of supporters for Distant Worlds AP on the forum. We're burning candles and holding a vigil every Saturday. Our prayers will be answered someday.

Can I come? I'll bring cookies!

Silver Crusade

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An Inquisitor is a ranged class in exactly the same way that a Cleric is a healing class...

Silver Crusade

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meatrace wrote:
Sounds like your dm is a dick. Don't play.

Judgemental much?

Maybe the GM has a specific world that doesn't have Wizards in it? Maybe he wants to keep arcane casters as NPC's? Maybe there is a good plot reason that Sorcerers and Wizards don't exist that will be revealed in the course of the plot?

The GM has warned the players that divine magic may be lost in the course of the campaign. Warnings of this nature are not the actions of a dick GM.

I think that judging a person that you don't know based on no information is a really nasty thing to do. This was a really horrible thing to say.

Silver Crusade

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This is an OOC issue, not an IC issue.

Silver Crusade

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The crafting rules are awful. One of the chief areas of the rules that need a fix.

Silver Crusade

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Here's how much difference having a point buy or rolled stats makes:

Next to nothing.

Character choices make up 99.9% of how interesting or powerful a character is. Point buy or rolling makes very little difference.

Silver Crusade

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Lord Foul II wrote:
I don't like it being impossible to ascend other than the test of the starstone which they haven't told us anything about

Who says that? Where is that written? Irori and Nethys are both rumoured to have been former mortals.

Also, what's with all the recent thread necromancy?

Silver Crusade

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deuxhero wrote:
FallofCamelot wrote:
deuxhero wrote:
Poorly designed, but saved by the sheer power of spells.

Er... no.

Of all the APG classes they are the best designed. They are thematic and consistent with a bunch of cool options and several ways they can be played.

I'd love to hear your justification for calling them poorly designed.

The biggest two are that

1: They seem to be designed as archers by the proficiencies, but make really bad ones (no support in class abilities. At the time of publication, there were no teamwork feats that benefited archery)

You don't have to play them as archers but they can make good archers. Teamwork feats are a bonus but you don't need them to make the class powerful. If all you see is archer when looking at the inquisitor then you are missing the point of the class.

deuxhero wrote:
2: Judgement scales badly: +1 and another +1 every X levels is really bland and not very useful due to the slow speed of growth. An ability like this should be boosted by an ability score, benefit the entire party, be at will instead of X per day, flat out scale better or some combination of those (At least it isn't a standard action).

It works well. The point is that you have a versitle buff which you can then stack with other buffs: heroism, bane, magic vestment whatever is appropriate. There is no buff in the game that is as versatile as judgement. When you understand that judgement is not the whole class but merely one of a group of abilities this makes sense.

deuxhero wrote:
The design is also pretty 3.5 and feels weird with PF conventions: Judgement is a x/day with scaling number of uses ability, while PF made all of these into rounds based on class level and an ability score that can be divided in any pattern desired.

Wrong.

Paladin Smite? Cavalier Challenge? Monk's Quivering Palm? Every Cleric domain ability/Sorcerer bloodline ability/Wizard school power with uses per day? I could go on, there's loads of x/day abilities.

deuxhero wrote:
There are also no customizable options not shared by other classes (deity/domain, spells known and, if neutral, profane/sacred)

Not sure what you are getting at here. There's a bunch of inquisitor only spells, they have unique abilities and their versitility is their key selling point.

deuxhero wrote:
Their remaining class abilities run the gambit from good (Bane) to "duplicates a low level spell" (almost everything else)

Stern Gaze? Cunning initiative? Stalwart? Exploit Weakness? Show me the spells here.

deuxhero wrote:
Magus is better than 3.5's multiple attempts at such a class, actually letting you BLEND the two styles instead of use them consecutively. It has multiple viable options, works well with additional material that isn't necessarily made to compliment it and has unique abilities that scale well.

Not in the APG, I specifically mentioned that. Besides every Magus is generally the same. Rapier/scimitar and shocking grasp. Rinse and repeat (yawn). To say that the Magus has more versitility than the inquisitor is just wrong.

deuxhero wrote:
Alchemist is also versatile, relatively original (and yet is still a classic fantasy archetype), very unique in mechanics and work well without even touching its "spells"

Funny you should have a go at the inquisitor for having x/day abilities and then defend a class that has x/day abilities...

deuxhero wrote:
Summoner, while poorly balanced, is an interesting concept and, again, has many options that make no two summoners alike.

Yeah but really unbalanced. Plus again they are not as versitile as an Inquisitor, you can't do a ranged Summoner or a buffing Summoner or a healing Summoner. It's eidolon or bust.

Silver Crusade

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Solidchaos085 wrote:
Haven't gone all the way through Jade Regent, but beyond a couple of encounters in the first books swamp and castle it doesn't seem undead heavy (downside, it requires the players to be friends or frienemies with the four main npcs)

That's only a downside if you make it a downside.

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