All good and valid examples of out-of-combat situations but there are also many examples where the duration is too short. I didn't say it has no use, I said duration limits its use.
Ok, I didn't remember this one. So the workaround is to summon neutral creatures or use range attacks. Hum, somewhat limiting too.Don't get me wrong, I think the SM spells are very good spells but the 1 round casting time, short duration, Protection vs X issue, redudancy (have to learn higher level spells) are clear drawbacks. They're worth mentioning in your "Summoning: God's favorite spells" section to be complete :P even if you think the benefits outshine them.
In 3.5 a lot: enfeeblement, exhaustion, enervation, acid arrow (vs spellcasters), the occasional orb or scorching ray spell, etc. It's also very useful at low levels (up to 5/7) when you cannot cast every round to participate in combat with range weapons. Also missing a hit for an archer is not as much an issue than for a wizard wasting a spell. With the 10 feats every PF characters receive now, the opportunity cost is even lesser and +5 to hit is 25% more chance of hitting. Not necessary for every build but still good for debuffers.
Reading your guide was very instructive, like an accelerated 3.5 to PF course, thanks a lot! It will definitely makes me reconsider a bit my feats and spells selection.
Duration of SM X is still an issue at level 5 for out-combat situation. That makes it a lot less versatile than you say. Also I'm not an expert re the 3.5 material you are referring to but I thought that you stated at the beginning of your handbook that the handbook is made for PF Core, as is in PF I think you are overrating the Summon spells. Did I mention that a 1st level spell can sometimes protect from the effects of the summoned creature (Protection vs X)?
You don't mention the Ray specialization (PBS, Precise Shot feats) in your handbook. Do you think it's dead with PF nerfed spells (I think Enfeeblement for ex) or were you never an adept? Enervation still rocks and IMHO is one of the best spells of the level.
Very interesting stuff! My understanding from the different articles from Skip Williams, especially the Part Three is that illusion of sound does not give an automatic save. Some illusion spells state that they give automatic saves like Ventriloquism and Ghost sound but not Minor Image (or more). I find the explanation of interaction close to what I stated before: you need to do an action to interact with the illusion (e.g. at least taking some time observing/listening the illusion).So Minor Image does not give an automatic save even if there is sound, silent image + ghost sound do (actually only ghost sound but if one successfully saves vs ghost sound, as a DM I would allow another save with a HUGE bonus vs the silent image).
Edit: wow you beat me at that, you guys are fast at typing! Glad to see we have the same opinion about this now :D
Regarding the rest of your spells selection, I have few comments:
Summon Monster X:
Dennis da Ogre wrote:
You're unfortunately right :(One thing though, for Ventriloquism, the PRD says:
So it means that hearing a sound is not automatically interaction. Unfortunately the description says:
Still doesn't make sense to me than hearing a sound is more an interaction than seeing something but by RAW it seems that it is :(
Just finished reading your guide: great guide, very good read!
About the sound in an illusion giving a save automatically, I disagree with this. Hearing is no different than sight, it's a passive sense (you receive information) so it should not trigger a save. Interacting is touching, talking, attacking, receiving damage, etc.
In the spells section I noticed that there is a lot more red and orange than green and blue. You said that wizard is your preferred class but it looks like you find that most spells suck ;)
Good analysis of the changes in the spells in PF, I love some of the changes but hate some of them...
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Where did you get that from? Take a step back Mr Pink, I've never been emotionally attached to WotC, neither I am to Paizo now. Allows me having an objective look. I also never bought the 3.5 stuff and staid with my 3.0 books so I'm not going to buy them from you now :P (never been a marketing victim). You loved WotC yesterday and are burning them now, you might do the same with Paizo in few years... I'm less emotional so I don't develop a fanboy attitude regarding games I play contrary to you apparently. You can disagree as much as you will, we didn't even start having a discussion anyway.
James Jacobs wrote:
Fortunately it's not ruining my game. I understand your constraints, the difficulty of the task and appreciate that you'll fix the subsequent versions of the prints and PDFs. I was not and am not going to continue discussing on this thread (except if I find errors), I wanted to express my disappointment about mostly erratas, but it's not going to prevent me from playing. All in all I enjoy the Pathfinder RPG and the direction it takes (except for the artwork :P but I know this is about personal taste).
Epic Meepo wrote:
Page 268: Omission error. The troll entry makes no mention of anyone named Faenor.
Hehe. You may be right it can sound like a troll which is not in my habits but it's the Product board right? And the thread is about the problems of the Bestiary product right? So I apologize (sic) if I'm not satisfied with the product and let it know to the editors, publishers, designers, etc. with the hope they will do better next time. Now if you're fine with buying an unfinished product, recalculating the stats of each monster (stats being almost the only feature of the book) and hearing critics about it then that's good for you. I'm not a fanboy like you apparently and I expect better quality in the products I buy (and I like to think I'm not the only one).Regards
Sorry I bought the book not the PDF and it will never get updated so I'll have to remember all the errors for each monster and carry the sheets of papers. Reactivity is ok but I would prefer the quality to be better in the first place. I didn't pay to buy a beta version of the book. I definitely feel like the work wasn't done correctly.
WotC boards also has an active message board and the number of errors in the 3.5 MM seemed much lower that what we see here: 3.5 MM errata. Sorry but it's just a shame, it seems that there are mistakes every other monster.
So many errors in the book! It's a a shame. With so much delay I was expecting more rigor, it looks like the errata is going to have as many pages as the book itself...
I must say that I am disappointed by the Bestiary, I was expecting a lot better than that in terms of quality: less errors, more flavor text (some monsters are just really a stat block, not inspiring at all) and especially better artwork.
I know this is personal opinion and everyone has different taste about artwork but I find some of the monsters art really crap, especially the goblin family. I wan't a big fan of the new goblin to start with but the other family members are just wrong: the bugbear, the hobgoblin who looks like Shrek, the bargheist, ...
The worse of all being the troll IMHO.
Sorry for the rant, not a specific problem about rules but more a general disappointment about the product.
Thank you I know that but the question is about the build presented in this thread which uses a heavy shield and a heavy shield is a one handed weapon, not a light one, as explained above...
What is making it light? Mithril doesn't reduce the weapon category (p155) as already explained above so how?
Shield Master does remove the penalty entirely so there is no discussion regarding the off hand attack penalty (0). Only the primary hand attack puzzles me, I think this build should be -4/0.
Sorry, it's a bit off-topic but how come it is only -2 on the primary attack? I thought TWF feat + one-handed weapon in off-hand is -4/-4 and the heavy shield is considered a one-handed weapon, not a light weapon. Shield Master feat eliminates the off-hand penalty but I don't see anything that can reduce the primary hand penalty. Even a mithril shield would not make the heavy shield a light weapon.
Have I missed something? I am looking at creating a sword and board build so I'm interested to see how one can reduce the penalty further.
Iron Host of Acheron wrote:
Sounds great! I prefer minis but I don't have any here.
Neil Mansell wrote:
What about the others? Still okay for the 18th at the Royal Exhibition pub around noon? Do we have enough people coming?
And good idea for the Society scenario in the afternoon; Is there a DM willing to run one? :D
Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:
I think it's Oracle no?
Count me in im fairly new to the game (have a decent amount of rpg experiance though) but im definetly up for it.
Link to Pathfinder Reference Document for those who don't have the rules. Need to come with a 7 level character. I'd like to play a wizard myself.
Are we only 3 who confirmed at the moment?
Hey guys – I’m looking for a group to playtest a couple of monsters that will feature in the upcoming “Monsters of the Razor Coast” indulgence for Sinister Adventures. I’d like to run a one-off Friday night game in the city after work in the next week or two. Give me a holler if you’re interested!
Sounds cool. I'm interested and Friday night works fine!
Hum, I haven't received the email so I guess there was as an issue. I am sending you an email so you can loop me in.
It was great to meet you guys, see you soon for some awesome games ;)
Just saw that you are in Melbourne and I live in Sydney...
Anyhow if anyone has space for a new player in the Sydney area, please contact me.
Sorry for the spam.
Happy gaming all
Hey - I live not very far from Mascot. Would there be an opportunity for me to join your group? :)My email in case of: jtblin at gmail dot com
Sorry for the threadjack. I also would be up for a meeting in Sydney in June for the Paizonian gathering so not completely off-topic: is the 21st of June still in the plan for everybody?
Would it be possible to join your group as a player? I have been playing RPGs for many years and I am looking for joining a new group to play PF or D&D (3E, 3.5). I recently moved to Sydney from old Europe so I am dying to find a new RPG group in the Sydney area ;)
You can contact me directly at jtblin at gmail dot com.