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Stone Giant

Fabius Maximus's page

998 posts (999 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist. 1 alias.


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Mythic JMD031 wrote:


This Crowe?


You could use the Arodenama (look at part six of the AP for a map) or one of the temples to Aroden or Asmodeus in Rego Sacero.

The Kithangian. A CR 9 Demon that almost wiped a party of five level 9 PCs. Granted, the SC are not particularly optimized and lacked a Paladin or a Cleric. Still, they should have not have had so many problems with that thing.

BigNorseWolf wrote:
mechaPoet wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Yeah, there's a reason for manspreading. Two reasons actually. Nether of them have anything to do with oppressing anyone. Avoiding oppression is the goal there.
-Name those reasons.

Left and right.

Maybe you should go see a doctor about that?

I got two bottles for Christmas: 10 year old Bushmills Single Malt and 12 year old Glenlivet. The Bushmills is rather nice, tasting quite a bit of fruit. I haven't come to terms with the Glenlivet yet. It's not bad, surely, but I cannot distuingish any particular flavours yet. But I'm a relative newcomer to Scotch, so I guess my nose still needs a bit of training.

Aubrey the Malformed wrote:

Actually, the dwarves had a number of accents. James Nesbitt (honestly, no idea which dwarf - he had no lines in the 3rd movie) retained his strong Northern Irish accent and the actor playing Kili is also (and also sounded) Irish. Thorin didn't sound very Scottish (Richard Armitage is English, from the Midlands) but Ken Stott (Balin) is Scottish. In fact, if memory serves, Gimli's accent was Welsh (as was the actor).

Here's a discussion. I can tell you now that Thorin's accent is not Yorkshire.

The funny thing is that half of the dwarf actors are New Zealanders.

FatR wrote:
Archivist is one of those classes I don't mind to see gone. Full-list access casters like clerics are already very, very problematic when running games above level 7 or so (not even wizards' memorizations consumes nearly as much time as their searches through their ever-expanding spell list for just the thing that might win DnD today). Archivist had the same problem squared. In PF it is even worse because of extra divine casters.

Minor correction: Archivists use a spell book. They don't have "full-list access".

I tried the same last year without any luck. It may have something to do with the pack not working with the latest version of the game.

There is Dark Messiah of Might and Magic, as well. It has nothing to do with the rest of Might & Magic, apparently, but it's a pretty good game.

Quark Blast wrote:
Fabius Maximus wrote:

I'm going to leave the rest of the discussion fall by the wayside. It's going in circles and - quite frankly - you don't make much sense to me.

Quark Blast wrote:
Fabius Maximus wrote:
First of all: Since you avoid answering my question, am I correct in the assumption that no published campaign setting does what you'd like them to do?

But I did answer. Go back and read my 20+ posts earlier on this thread and you will see.

I did. And no, you haven't named a single setting that does it right in your opinion (barring aliases; I didn't check those).

I'm rather curious, though. Maybe you can come up with an answer. If not, I've no choice but to go with my assumption.

As for Fabius Maximus' persistent request - as if it wasn't obvious - I have no disagreement with any other published setting, that I'm familiar with, to the degree that I do with the Eberron Campaign Setting.

That still is not a clear answer. Maybe I didn't make myself clear. Are you against published settings in general and particularly don't like Eberron? Or do you like some settings and not others, one of which is Eberron?

I've got the impression that it is the former, in which case I must ask what you are doing here in the first place (except being deliberately belligerent for the heck of it). In the latter case, I'd really like to know which published settings you actually like (for comparison's sake).
I'd appreciate that.

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I'm going to leave the rest of the discussion fall by the wayside. It's going in circles and - quite frankly - you don't make much sense to me.

Quark Blast wrote:
Fabius Maximus wrote:
First of all: Since you avoid answering my question, am I correct in the assumption that no published campaign setting does what you'd like them to do?

But I did answer. Go back and read my 20+ posts earlier on this thread and you will see.

I did. And no, you haven't named a single setting that does it right in your opinion (barring aliases; I didn't check those).

I'm rather curious, though. Maybe you can come up with an answer. If not, I've no choice but to go with my assumption.

First of all: Since you avoid answering my question, am I correct in the assumption that no published campaign setting does what you'd like them to do?

You seriously underestimate the levels of Eberron "government officials". King Boranel might be only CR 10, but he doesn't have to be the most powerful NPC around. In fact, Keith Baker described Thorn, one of the common Dark Lantern field agents as having levels in the Assassin PrC, so she can't be of low level. The NPCs in "Five Nations" - among them another Dark Lantern and members of various other organizations - are almost all around CR 10.

So, while the mooks on the border might be low-level NPCs, there are special operatives on hand who have teleportation magic available and who can to a crisis in a literal flash. Furthermore, being low level doesn't mean the NPCs have to be stupid. They can withdraw. That particular border is sparsely settled anyway.

Also, the only nation on Khorvaire Aerenal is allied with is Valenar, and that only tenuously. The Aerenal elves are isolationists. Taking over one of the Galifar successor states won't garner Vol anything she wants.

As for GM-fiat: That is not different in any setting. Describe it how you will: fate, prophecy, bad luck, whatever. The GM decides what happens in the world. No matter what I changed in Golarion, I still chase my players through Council of Thieves (which I modified heavily, as well) set in Westcrown, Cheliax, Avistan.

Buying setting material means I don't have to come up with my own world and reading it inspires me, to boot. Saying that modifying something makes one not to play in a published setting anymore is hyperbole. The effect of player interaction, fan fiction, online discussions, etc. is additive, not exclusionary.

I really don't know what you want. Your expectations of what an RPG campaign setting should do seem way to high and more akin of a CRPG persistant world than a P&P RPG.

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Quark Blast wrote:
Fabius Maximus wrote:
...Maybe you could give me an example of a setting that does it right in your opinion?...

Any setting that is just its own. Eberron is a combination of "fixes" (to things that aren't broke!) plus (seemingly) "fun things" from KB's childhood, all plopped into one big un-stirred cauldron of stew sitting over dead coals from a fire long burned to ashes.

Sorry, but that is not helpful. All you say that Eberron does it wrong, again, instead of saying which setting did it right.


Oh, but they do wait around. There are entire frontiers of the major kingdoms guarded by average low-level troops led by mid-level leaders (like 6th level) who have no peers and only a few even lower level aids to help out. One Bulette could take down half the kingdom before the PC's even hear about it. Because, let's face it, without the PCs the kingdom is doomed.

Vol herself could summon a dozen Shadows and, with their Create Spawn ability, take out the ruling class in any one kingdom in a long weekend. Except maybe Thrane. Speaking of Thrane...


Take Breland, for example. In your scenario, they would put together a force strong enough to bring the landshark down. For other scenarios, there are the Dark Lanterns, for example. The kingdoms are not helpless. If something turned up that they couldn't handle, you just run with it and have the PCs sort it out.

Vol could maybe use that plan (I highly doubt it, though), but why would she? Her goal is not to conquer a random kingdom, but to take revenge against Aerenal, which is much more difficult. Apart from that, her goals are nebulous. As are those of the Lords of Dust and especially those of the Daelkyr, because they are so alien. The only exception is the Dreaming Dark, who are trying to make the current Quori age last forever, but that doesn't have appeared on the slate of the Khorvaire nations yet.

The Big Bads do not wait around. They are planning and moving pieces into position. Don't forget, they have massive amounts of time to do that. But the moment they start speeding things up, it gets noticed and the checks and balances start being active, the PCs among them.

What your PCs do does matter, if you - as a GM - make their actions relevant. And if you think real life is boring, it is because you are not in the middle of things. The PCs in Eberron are supposed to be.

As for house ruling: Do you play Golarion, the Realms or any setting as is? Really? I couldn't do that. I have adapted Golarion to my needs and would continue to do so, depending on the region my game is set in, because some things just grate on me. That is the point of a kitchen sink setting: you take what you need and change the rest.

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5. A box full of more or less cylindrical objects of various sizes that are tapered on one end and partially dissolved by battery acid.

For other sources, there is a short article called "The Ecology of the Duergar" in Dragon Magazine #325.

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Drejk wrote:
Don Juan de Doodlebug wrote:

Apparently, I am in danger of growing up and being domesticated.

I've heard love does that...

(We exchanged.)

So you are on your way to become household goblin? That's something new...

We could start calling him Doddy.

Imbicatus wrote:
Agree, Voyager has some great points, especially after they got away from the Kazon and Seska. Year of Hell was pretty awesome, as was Scorpion.

And then they went and made the Borg push-overs.

If an archetype replaces a class feature that has a series of improvements, but it does not list one individual improvement, that class feature replaces the entire class feature and all of its improvements. For example, if a class feature says that it replaces trap sense without mentioning a specific bonus, it replaces all of trap sense.
Ironskin Monk wrote:

Tough as Nails (Ex)

At 6th level, an ironskin monk gains DR 1/—. Subtract 1 point from the damage the ironskin monk takes each time he is dealt damage from a weapon or a natural attack. This damage reduction increases by 1 point at 9th level and every 3 levels thereafter. Damage Reduction can reduce damage to 0 but not below 0.

This ability replaces fast movement and slow fall.

At level 6, the Ironskin Monk already has Slow Fall (20 ft) and Fast Movement (10 ft.). Does he never get them or does he stop the progression at that level?

Date of Lies wrote:
Fabius: I can understand that, but not for the next room in the dungeon (where we stopped in between sessions).

Fair enough. I'm still encountering the problem in Council of Thieves, which is very wordy and at several points gives the PCs quite a few options where they can go next. But if the GM knows what comes next, I cannot think of an excuse for that (except maybe time constraints).

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Re point 2: I know that problem as a GM. Many times, information is scattered through the book and you have to look up details because you didn't expect the players to ask certain questions. The only way to avoid this is to memorize the whole book. The amount of information in those books can get quite staggering, too (although I don't know how it is in Legacy of Fire).

Aranna wrote:
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
DS9 is where Star Trek fandom goes to die.

I thought it was after Enterprise was poorly received that producers thought Star Trek was dead? They even sold all the props and sets off.

Nah, Berman and Braga killed Star Trek with Voyager. It got resurrected in season 4 of Enterprise for a time, until they put the last nail in the coffin with its last episode (which was just a big f*** you to the fans).

Dustin Ashe wrote:

That might actually work, but they'll need a new script first (one that doesn't reset the universe yet again).

Quark Blast wrote:

I see your point but what I'm saying about Eberron-official stuff is that if I'm using a purchased product to help me with my campaign it would be nice if it did things that I really don't have time to do.

Adventure hooks? Those are beyond easy to come up with. What I don't have time for is detailed plot interactions and room descriptions. Custom stat blocks and non-standard magic items or traps. The more details the better as I find it far easier to tweak or delete content than to make it up whole on my own. If I'm paying $30-$50 for something I want the boring detail work done for me.

I seriously don't know what you expect. Stat blocks usually don't show up in Campaign Setting material. There are some in the ECS in addition to a few in the other books (mostly when it comes to PrCs). However, there are a lot of "non-standard magic items" to be found; the ECS has a whole section devoted to it, for example. And traps you mainly find in adventure modules, anyway. There are not a lot of those for Eberron, sadly.

Setting books are there to deliver background information. Now, you don't like Eberron as a setting and that's fine. But it seems to me that your expectations are impossibly high here. Maybe you could give me an example of a setting that does it right in your opinion?


Population levels of all the cities for example.

Eberron - it's famous for confusing/wrong maps.

The fact that very few good or neutral NPCs are >6th level yet the world is infused with major BEBG type-things (Dalkyr, Blood of Vol, Lords of Dust, Dreaming Dark, etc.). Things that could eat civilization on Khorvaire for a light brunch yet instead wait around for the PCs to get high enough level to be a threat to them... why?

Baker confessed to the first two facts quite early after the initial publishing of the ECS. I'm not sure if they were fixed in the 4e material.

As for the threats, they all have counters: the Chamber, Adar and the Kalashtar, the Church of the Silver Flame, the Undying Court and so on. Don't forget that the most powerful beings of two Big Bad factions are locked into Khyber, one of them pretty thoroughly. Also, they don't wait around (I don't know what gave you that impression).

Mechagamera wrote:

If I was a decision maker at Paizo, I would agree 100% with LazarX.

Since I'm not, I think the Malazan books would be interesting in a mythic rules kind of way.

I think the Malazan setting depends on what do you want to play: normal people or ascendants. For normal people, Savage Worlds might work better. For ascendants, WoD: Scion could be suitable (even if you'd need to adapt a lot of the material).

Camazotz already is in the game (that's not to say that he can be expanded upon).

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captain yesterday wrote:
if you want people only to say nice things you need to start a thread for it, maybe title it "Eberron, how do I love thee, let me count the ways" but jumping on everyone here that doesnt like it as much as you isn't constructive at all

Quark Blast's post was pretty vitriolic, throwing words around like "atrocity". My postings here are tame in comparison.

And no, I have nothing against criticism that is founded somehow. However, you and Quark Blast admitted that you basically have not done much reading on the subject and have also stated things that are objectively wrong (probably as a result of ignorance). That is not constructive.

captain yesterday wrote:
Fabius Maximus wrote:
Quark Blast wrote:

Finally, the thing that gets me most about Eberron is the official products. They give big sweeping and sometimes vague generalizations about the history/politics of the campaign world and then tell the GM (and players) that if they need any more detail they should fill that stuff in "to make the setting truly their own".
If I understand you correctly: You want a setting that does all the work for you while exactly matching your expectations.
he wants adventure hooks, something more then "figure it out yourself" its the history of the setting for gosh sake! are you going to criticize everyone that doesn't like Eberron? is it that important to you?

There are plenty of adventure hooks strewn throughout the material.

Eberron is my second favourite setting after Planescape, so why would I not answer false claims about (and outright hate towards) it?

Quark Blast wrote:

Finally, the thing that gets me most about Eberron is the official products. They give big sweeping and sometimes vague generalizations about the history/politics of the campaign world and then tell the GM (and players) that if they need any more detail they should fill that stuff in "to make the setting truly their own".

If I understand you correctly: You want a setting that does all the work for you while exactly matching your expectations.

Eben TheQuiet wrote:

As for the whole drow thing ... I think it's unfortunate that drow—distinctly characterized by their black skin—are nearly always racially evil. But, as was mentioned up-thread, that's hardly unique to Eberron. In fact, it seems to me that Eberron went out of its way to remove automatic Good/Evil assumptions as a baseline from most races in the setting.

.. as opposed to ... say ... Golarion (for drow, anyway).

Indeed. The baseline alignment for every Eberron being is neutral, moreso than in other settings.

captain yesterday wrote:
Eberron sucked (i assume it has faded into nothingness) it was too small, bland (which is odd considering the genre it was going for) and just a bit racist (almost no human ethnicity, dark elves being evil from "the dark continent", Dwarves being miserly bankers)

I think we've been over this before. The only true thing in what you say is the claim that the world's too small (Keith Baker himself said he miscalculated sizes, I believe). However, it is big enough for most campaigns.

Grand Magus wrote:


A flat scissors is a series of nose-to-nose turns and overshoots in the
same maneuver plane, with each pilot attempting to get behind the other.
But how does this ever end? When one guy runs out of fuel?


When one of them makes a mistake or his plane is inferior in that situation.

@jjwolven: You didn't mention how the psionic characters outshone the others (although this would not be the thread or subforum for that discussion).

Anyway, since I've finally read through the playtest document, I might as well post my impressions here.

Kineticist and Medium seem like fine classes for which I can come up with character concepts quite easily. I'm a fan of Radiance House's work for 3.5e, though, so I don't know if I will use Paizo's updated Binder.

The Mesmerist looks like an updated Beguiler, a class that - like the Warmage - should have been a Sorcerer PrC back in 3.5. I like the fluff and quite a few of the mechanics. I just don't see why it needs to be a base class.

The Occultist seems fine, even if I probably won't play one, as it doesn't interest me much. However, the weapon and armor proficiencies are weird and do not fit the class's fluff. If this was intended to be a psychic melee combatant, I'd understand, but the class seemingly wants to be something else.

The Psychic is not for me. I'm neither a fan of the fluff nor of the amplification mechanics. I'd rather play a Psion.

The Spiritualist looks good. It is basically a haunted Oracle to the extreme, although I find the fluff a bit too narrow. Maybe there will be archetypes for tethering elementals or other outsiders in the book.

So, 2 or 3 interesting classes out of 6 is not enough for me to consider buying the book.

For non-divine healing, you could take a look at Dreamscarred's Vitalist, especially the more aggressive variants. A Battle-Medic Tactician could work quite well, too.

Any chance you can lay your hands on Hunter: The Vigil (World of Darkness)? Because Supernatural is very, very similar.

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Sara Marie wrote:
liz: if Valeros quits drinking, the cumulative hangover could kill him

He's going to need some Klatchian coffee, then.

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lorenlord wrote:

Also, I believe it was in Korea with the Sabres they hunted in groups of two, and employed the Scissors technique for mutual offense/defense. If a MiG got on either one of their sixes, when they rolled back over and "closed the scissors", the other Sabre would have a firing solution on the MiG.

I believe that tactic is called the "Thach Weave" or a variant thereof. It was developed by one John Thach during WWII, because the US Navy Wildcats were inferior to the Japanese Zeros. As the Japanese pilots rarely used group tactics, it proved a pretty effective defensive tactic.

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Morzadian wrote:
Ssalarn wrote:
nighttree wrote:
As someone who didn't actually like the "psionics" feel in 3.5....I'm looking foreword to seeing what this turns out like flavor wise, as well as mechanically ;)
As someone who loved 3.5-style psionics and also loves the idea of cool Victorian and/or (Stephen) Kingsian mind magic, I too, am looking forward to seeing what this turns out like flavor wise, as well as mechanically ;)

D&D 3.5 Psionics was beyond broken. It created a new definition for what could be considered broken.

The infamous Pun-Pun build (kobold egoist) was conceived from the D&D 3.5 Expanded Psionics Handbook. With infinity looping power giving a player deity like powers.

I find it hard to understand Paizo's rationale in treading backwards into WOTC's worst blunders.

Erik Mona has a love for pulp fiction, and I can see why he would want to use the 'occult' as theme and subject matter. But D&D 3.5 psionics, please no.

Pathfinder doesn't need a Pun Pun.

Just four quick things:

1. Pun-Pun wasn't created using the Psion class. He can use the Psion class.
2. The problem was not that class, but that he can somehow force a Sarrukh to grant him one of its abilities. Sarrukh are high-level creatures from a FR splatbook, which makes him a corner case.
3. The whole thing is an experiment in extra odorous cheese and and not meant to be played.
4. You have no idea about 3.5 psionics if you use Pun-Pun as an example for its alleged brokeness.

If you want a discussion about this, PM me or use one of the psionics threads on the board, please.

Grand Magus wrote:
Fabius Maximus wrote:
Re the different pursuit types: In the prop era, there was an additional reason for using them: visibility. Depending on the target's distance and position realative to you, your plane's engine would block line of sight when in lead pursuit ...


Yay, firing while turning would be a harder shot compared to more level flight.
I have to wonder if early pilots avoided firing while turning unless the
lower chance of hitting vs. ammo use vs. desperation of the situation
demanded it.

Did they try to document and keep that type of data back then? That is,
what maneuver the plane was in during a kill shot. Information like that
would more likely be passed on word-of-mouth from pilot to pilot rather
than taught in a lecture-style assembly. Over the decades, the general
knowledge of such statistics would fade away.


I have no idea if they recorded that information. Also, confirming kills was really unreliable, because it frequently happened that a shot-up plane made it back to base or that a plane that still looked flight-capable after losing an engagement went down out of sight. The latter happened a lot in the Battle of Britain. British planes were outfitted with .303-caliber light machine guns. These things usually didn't stop German (or Italian) planes from fighting immediately, but damaged them enough that quite a few of them ended up in the drink much later.

As for lining up shots: you always wanted to approach a fighter from its six. You were way out of its firing arc and rearward visibility wasn't great in many WW II planes (the BF109 was especially bad in that respect, even if the thing blocking your view as an armor plate). But even rookies knew that. As a result, part of German air combat doctrine was "never fly more than 30 seconds in a straight and level line in a combat area". The allies had similar guidelines. More often than not, you'd catch an enemy fighter plane at an angle where a deflection shot was necessary to bring it down (the whole thing changed when engaging bombers; never approach a bomber from its six if you can avoid it).

That's not necessarily saying you'd engage in a turn fight. You needed to know your airplane's capabilities versus the attacker's plane and then decide how you wanted to continue. Most WW II planes were built with speed as their main defense in mind (with the exception of most British and Japanese aircraft). The FW-190 series for example could probably be outturned by any other single-engine plane during the war (though it had a very good roll rate, I believe, which helped a bit). It was very fast, however, and had a great dive speed, which meant pilots could dive away from engagements (provided they were out of the enemy's line of fire), then climb back up to a greater altitude and boom their opponents.

Krensky wrote:
It was much more useful in WWII and the early part of Korea when the Mk1 Eyeball was a pilot's sole sensor system.

That's where I was coming from.

Re the different pursuit types: In the prop era, there was an additional reason for using them: visibility. Depending on the target's distance and position realative to you, your plane's engine would block line of sight when in lead pursuit. But it was necessary to line up deflection shots, especially if you caught the enemy inside his turn (which you ideally wanted to do, because he showed you the "broadside" of his plane, including the cockpit). So you had to lead you target while hoping that the enemy pilot didn't change direction or - much more aggreviating - altitude when out of sight.

Krensky wrote:
In air combat they are pretty much never used except when breaking off when the other side doesn't have a good position to maneuver for an attack in the first place.

Would that not depend on your and the enemy plane's respective flight characteristics?

Well, yes. I don't know how the misappropriation of the Immelmann name came about, but it irks me. There is barely any skill involved in doing a half loop. You just have to know when you got the energy for it.

The Wingover variants actually are difficult to pull off.

Yeah, but that's not really an Immelmann turn. It's a half loop.

Originally, the Immelmann was a shallower version of a Wingover, with the expert version being the Hammerhead: After an attack on an enemy with less energy you'd pull up until your plane almost stalled, then used rudder to reverse direction, ideally going in for another attack. The enemy cannot follow you; if he does, he will stall sooner than you and therefore be unable to evade your attack.

The trailer makes Horizon look bad. I will probably watch at least the first 10 minutes, though. I'm also not a canon hound, so if Axanar works and Paramount doesn't block it, I'm fine with it, FASA or no FASA.

As for good fan movies, I recommend Star Trek: Phase II. They have done tremendous work with the scripts for the scrapped second TV series.

That worked, though I'm not much interested in the jet age, to be honest.

I wonder, shouldn't it be "Sun & Zoom", following that description?

Grand Magus wrote:


[vid = jets over korea]
In this video, goto 17 minutes from the ending (or 43 minutes from the beginning ...)
"Zoom and Sun" is a colorful name, too.


No Hulu for me, I'm afraid.

Axanar looks very, very good. It helps that they got several experienced actors for the project.

Horizon looks very bad. Not only is the trailer ineptly done, they also went with the temporal cold war background, which killed Star Trek: Enterprise.

Grand Magus wrote:


I think it was during the Korean War (1950-1953) that America first went
up against Russian jet-fighters. The jet-fighters would dive down and then
climb back up, and U.S. Pilots called them Yo-Yo attacks.


Never heard of Yo-Yo attacks. There are aerial combat maneuvers called high and low yo-yo, respectively.

The Soviet MiG-15bis was designed for intercepting B-29 bombers, which meant high service ceiling, good climb rate (and good acceleration), good high altitude performance and superior armament. To add insult to injury, the bloody thing turned really well, too.

OTOH, the MiG-15's low altitude performance wasn't great, compared to the F-86 Sabre. The firing rate of the Soviet large caliber cannons was also not really suited to combat enemy fighters and gun convergence between the 23mm and the 37mm was off, I believe.

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That's a long period to cover and I'm no expert, just an interested amateur, so take what I write with a grain of salt.

Basically, duels were much more prevalent during WW I, because of the ideal of gentlemanly combat and also because bombing tactics were just emerging. The fighter planes were really suited to these tactics, because those bi- or tri-plane fighters could turn on a dime.

After the Great War, the powers believed the future would lie in inassailable bomber formations and neglected developing fighter technology and tactics further. The Spanish Civil War kind of reinforced that impression, with the Legion Condor's bombing campaign being so successful. But the German Luftwaffe already was investing in new fighters and accompanying tactics. The Messerschmidt BF 109 was one of the first so-called energy fighters, I believe.

Energy fighting means that the pilot would try to gain altitude as rapidly as possible (meaning the planes had to have a good climb speed), because altitude equaled energy you could convert into speed used for diving down on an enemy plane, taking a shot and then using the speed gained in the dive to quickly gain altitude again, before the enemy had time to react. This was referred to by US pilots (I guess) as "Boom & Zoom", as opposed to "Turn & Burn". As this was more an ambush tactic, there barely was dueling anymore. Fighter wings would swoop down on the enemy and zoom away, then turn back and do the same again until they ran out of ammo or fuel.

The US AAF and Navy perfected this tactic and ordered their fighters to be uniquely suited for it. Late US planes would not have a great climb speed, but in the pacific theatre, the distances were so long that that didn't matter. The machines were very heavy, which meant they could outdive anything the Japanese Armed Forces (mostly using turnfighters, like the RAF) could throw at them.

Strategic bombing would be used much more heavily in WW II, so fighter escorts were standard. Again, the best plane for that role was the P-51. Its range was so great that it could range in front of bomber formation to sweep the sky clear of German interceptors, which by then were much more heavily armed than their US counterparts, but lacked the flight characteristics to keep up with them.

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