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Can be built in many ways but uses extracts and expensive potions/elixirs with alchemical allocation to be a deadly ranged combatant,focusing on Int, only shooting once a round but adding a tonne of riders (vital strike, kirin strike, bombs,, extracts admixtures, hollowed projectiles, etc).
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
I follow the AP recommendation of 1 pt. per trip to port. Our group is level 8 now, with 4 players, and I find the gold values pretty much bang on... challenging, but bang on. Less gold to the PCs would make that group a bit anemic. Plus, I don't want to run into a hypothetical scenario where they leave for months (lost a sea or something) and owe thousands of gold pieces to the crew... that would be silly. To give a weekly pay to pirates... is to no longer call them pirates... just sayin' ;)
Damned good point! Consider that changed to plunder per prey/selling wares.
Are people's players changing plunder into gold straight away? What do they use plunder for? Are they using the gold for themselves?
I feel like someone should go around and redo them, and not necessarily make them 1 per class, druids or cavaliers and what not have enough different abilities to fill out a few VMCs on a theme. Also, getting something at every other feat level is pretty limiting, i think they should just swap 5 feats for a whole package.
I agree. There shouldve been several options:Druid - basic
Druid - animalcompanion focus
Druid " wild.shape focus
Druid - domain/casting.focus
Remember paizo's unchained is just testing the waters - advanced VMC can easily be a future prospect in other books.
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
The Captain is the ultimate authority at sea, in every culture
Apparently the Swedish East India Trading Company ship Gotheborg of the late 1700s (soic.se) had an agent as an embassador from the Trading Company who could overrule the captain, though it wouldve been very daft of him to do so in many situations and was never called upon. He was the one conducting all the actual trading.
At sea, every culture does have the captain being the supreme authority (unless for exceptions like above). At port and off duty, not always the case. A call to depose of a captain could happen (only in some very select pirate cultures that we know of, i.e. age of sail). I admit to not having a direct source apart from articles and stuff I remember reading.
This thread does deal with the PCs being at port to trade plunder however. Here, it is very important to note that the captain does not have so much power. A crew member could potentially walk off and join another crew. Can the captain say no to this?
I am not trying to contradict that the captain is the most powerful figure on a ship, but that his power was situational, and in the Age of Sail pirate vessels this AP simulates, Ship Articles and such were commonly under effect. Ship Articles were a thing, and an agreed payment proportional to the plunder of a ship was to be agreed upon amongst the crew, so were many of the aspects of life onboard. That is rather democratical (close enough). Not every ship would stick to that, being captain through murderous deeds and fear was most likely a thing...humans afterall.
However give more credit to some of the reasons some of these people lived such a persecuted life; the ideal that one had more say over one's life...amongst a myriad other reasons of course.
There are some interesting pirate cultures in the Mediterranean. For example the Eolian islands, north of Sicily, during the Punic wars. They were mostly without a government, plundered everyone. The people of the islands would share the work between sailing/piracy, trading and making wares/staying in the islands to provide. This lasted until they sided with Carthage and the Romans decided these islands needing purging and brought them into their domain.
If you are running a tyrannical ship in the AP however, ahem...
A captain who brands each of his sailors (nevermind the slaves) and if they jump ship get prosecuted would be cool. Harrigan does this to an extent, but a mechanic to find such people would be fun. Perhaps reliquish a personal effect when being recruited?
I personally make the PCs cough up 1 piece of plunder per 7 days.
It made me scratch my head for a while though, so much to consider!
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Being on a ship is never democratic - you enter an autocratic, "Captain is God" zone, and if you don't understand this, you will be made to understand somehow; don't confuse mutiny with democracy.
This is only true under sailing conditions or at-battle conditions. The crew had a right to vote and a right to bring up issues. That things divulged into grey areas depending on the crew/officers is a different case.
The captain in a warship of a nation and the captain of a pirate ship were two very different positions. Also, we dont have much information about piracy conducted everywhere in the world. I am under the assumption, as I mentioned before, that we discuss "age of sail"-new world piracy. Chinese seas piracy was was more akin to mercenary armies, dukedoms or mafias, for example.
"Captain is god" only under stressful situations / at sea / on duty, even in modern times. Armies are always more strict.
Furthermore, in many ships, for example in some trading ships (east indiamans) the captain was not the supreme authority; this was the trading company's representative.
PS: perhaps we're talking about different situations/nations/ship cultures though, were you thinking of any particular background?
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
1 plunder everytime they convert their cargo hold to cash... sorry... being on a pirate ship is not a democracy
Ironically it was more democratic than in any other ship heirarchy. (talking colonial-caribbean age of sail piracy, though many in the Mediterranean were also more democratically inclined than others)
Man, I wonder what you think of reading gritty fantasy...part of the allure there is that nobody is good by definition. I'm curious, is it a genre you dislike?
*continues fishing with bait from [Opened Can Of Worms]*
It is a fun discussion :) though I think it all hinges on 1. what physic rules are obeyed/obviated and 2. Do turns/initiative affect these set rules in play.
Because you can put all the rules you want but if the ship is having its turn while you fall, it is going to get weird.
We ruled it as falling by the mast, by conserving inertia and ignoring air pressure/resistance (to not discuss whether your mass is the same or that of a feather falling). If wind effects are severe, they will factor in.
My players laughed at me when I was about to say he'd fall in the water..."physics doesnt work that way", and i did agree with them. Then I killed one of their characters. Unrelated...of course.
I really like the side effect that npcs become tougher. Otherwise they were just exagerated loot pinatas - I generally apply templates to them to actually make them on par without showering the party with gold for an easy fighter kill.
I also liked the idea to trade boni 3 to 1 or 2 to 1 depending what it is, to customise the aspects that you desire.
The disappearance of "cool cloak shame i already got resistance one" is definitely a bonus too. So is the cheaper application of weapon enchantment effects, allowing more varied builds (note: id bump keen to a +2 requirement in this system).
Again, this system has one point which will make players unhappy, even if it is nonsensical: you give them half as much as what you did before. If you ever played with a 25 point buy and went to a 15 pb you can grasp the feeling. Except this one is even more frivolous. Not all players are like that but many do chant "loot loot loot!!!" after tough encounters.
I will look into the self progressing items, thanks for the suggestion.There is something that doesnt quite sit right with me about this system though, the deletion of choice in where to allocate your resources.
A character might think he has enough defensive capabilities (heavy armour, casting, very good stats, some strategical schticks) and therefore decide to pour everything into offensive. This choice, whether smart or not, is now removed, making all characters closer to one another. A melee glass cannon is powerful, but has low defenses to compensate, yet now he is average in defenses too. Someone decides that their character is ok with not taking resistances (his class might give rerolls or boni), again standarised.
Example: I had a ninja with terrible AC but used clones, snake style, fog and other sneaky tactics to get out of problems. It was exiliarating to try not get hit and be useful at the same time. This factor would be softened with this system.
Not saying it is better or worse, just that this is intrinsic in the auto system.
I would very much like to hear of any middle ground suggestions or your house rules, or more on scaling magic items and how you used them.
Yes but the difference is that you slapped on some bloodline power and tool 3 feats away from an NPC library fighter, instead of using half hour to create a multiclassed weirdo thing and crunching numbers and restatting :) not always, the multiclass "oh my god he's doing what and does..huh??" does have a sire spot in my heart too.
ABP sounds good but...What about the rest of the gold not spent in the big 6? Still the same amount of loot? If less loot, some players might feel short changed/bored. What about APs, do you need to tweak them?
Edit: just saw it "decrease character wealth by half"
Edit2: surely on the flip side you can just throw more gold at the party. If they just want +s then restrict it by level, if they are a group that needs a lot of gold glint to be kept happy. Same results..
Edit3: ABP does make levelling more fun, for example to those bring cleric levels.
Gun Dragon wrote:
which book do I find the Alchemist (Drow's) void bomb? and what page?
I think it is in Monster Codex, it is a drow only discovery.
It is also sick. On a failed save you fall prone. On a successfull save you can only move 5 feet. Now, combine it with the gnome discovery/archetype that lets them mix bomb effects and combine Void with Breath Weapon. Luckily you cant be a drow gnome as far as I can tell.
Request for Hell's Vengeance, or what Id like to see:
A guide (whether in the AP, players guide or campaign setting) for playing with Evil characters (of the neutral and lawful spectrums, i ignore CE entirely in this post). Evil alignments are tricky and if you do an evil campaign, many folk could use a hand in troubleshooting.
Usable by/for: Players making evil pcs, GMing evil npcs realistically, GMs when handling evil pcs.
Building an evil pc
How to keep an evil party together!
Different kinds of evil
Examples of evil/darker neutral grounds, who might these be, how they came to be, why they persist in their ways.
The greater good/lesser of two evils: a good course to follow, the fall of a great character from roghteousness into grey moral dilemas that necessitate evil acts, the nomad hero that is forsaken for having done a crime that he had no choice in carrying out to prevent a worse fate.
Environment: in evil environments acting evil/selfish is sometimes just survival. The misguided that never learnt anything else, those that wished they could chose brighter options but must survive, those that consider it a natural result.
Druids: Largely Neutral with possible E sprinkled; neutral and evil druids, getting a bit closer to the primal, instincts, heirarchical, order. From Skull and Shackles Master of the Gales is a perfect example, Ormandar a good evil-strongest of the psck example.
The petty: thieves, swindlers, smugglers. Those that do the small evils, or sometimes the not so small.
The greedy, the evil, those more typical of the alifment, i just gave some examples.
Evil, for whom?
Just a few thoughts that could really improve how to run such a setting and perhaps pique the interest of those that only play good.
It is difficult I agree. It also depends on what kind of players you have. If it devolves in murderhobos or CE fests then it is just boring.
Subtle evil, planned grand schemes? This is awesome, but very very hard to pull off. I would really appreciate if Paizo did a section on how to bring out this part of the game. Some strong guidelines with examples and how to make it arch into other plots.
LE is best when it doesnt LOOK evil until the final moment, when the victim turns around and realises, all too late, how he's been played. (victim need not be good, in fact it is better if it is evil thinking he was getting the upper hand BWAHAAHA!)
Cap. Darling wrote:
If this thread acomplished nothing else it just made me buy the PDF:)
Good purchase! I think the gold om VMC is for GMs that can take a fighter NPC and slap something for a more interesting fight.
For example a fighter that turns into s whirlwind! (uh..forgot how I got there..sorcerer bloodlines? Got it writtem somewhere). I bet your players would remember that more than NPC Genericmfoghter #23.
I would say VMC applies to all of your character's progression.
That is my interpretation though.
I said it was more about bickering with a gm on fine details to slip away from a condition. It happens way too often sometimes and only serves to stop the game. If the gm wants you to be hit with that daze, and you start a long argument about it in the hopes to evade fate, he can still do whatever he had planned, and probably do worse to you thanks to that. (note: this isnt to say you or anyone here does that).
However, you are right it was too personal, sorry for that, just a reminder to try not bring certain things to the table. This is also the rules forum so these questions are valid and legitimate.
Still think that these conditions, including Nauseated (for which we had a massive thread recently) are very obvious, and reading between the lines is just far fetched. As always, the language they use for move/actions/etc could be clearer.
Gm: your turn remember you are dazed
...Is how to deal with too much loophole abuse and ruleslawyering. I bet your players will be STUNNED.
(disclaimer: this is a fun story more about pushing your luck and tiring the gm than anything else. If new, remember, discussions from the Rules forum can, and will, get your character killed.)
Common sense is the skill you are after. Mostly because it is used to understand stuff like this is not a viable tactic and your GM is sensible to shoot it down.
BUT RULE OF COOL!
Edit for shortness: Seems to work, however probably unintended.
You're twisting this too much. This is an unintended effect from archetypemmixing, a far stretch. More so since the duettist later has an ability to do a performance each. So no, not doing it at level 4 just cause people want to break rules by reading way too much into things.
If you want to read it purely pedantically..well up to you but most sensible gms wont let this fly. Though interesting loophole for sure.
1-2 levels Master of Many Styles
What?: An enemy attempts to hit you; you hit them back (panther), if theh miss you (mobility +4, spelldance +2-+4, pauldrons +2) you attack them again (Snake), if you hit you attack again (snake, immediate).
Say 3 enemies in the field. You potentially do 7 attacks in a round.
Damage?: Unarmed + Frosbite 1d6+CL + flamboyant level + anything else you got.
Intelligent enemies: it only worked once? They took a lot of attacks already, they think if they dont attack you from AoO you arent dangerous. Walk up to them and SpellCombat that smug face.
AC: 10 + armour 4 + dodge 1 + dex 5 + wis 4 = 24
Hit: Weakest part. Invest in amulet, get Weapon finesse, cast Greater magic weapon daily, use arcana int to hit when you have swift actions available (round 2), move smart so you flank at the moment of provoking.
It's a fun build to do. Make sure your GM is on board with this.
Like this enough and you dont mind not being a full caster? Slap on 3 levels duelist.
gustavo iglesias wrote:
If you are looking at vicious, you should look at damage done BY vicious and damage received FROM vicious only. Damage done by other sources has 0 impact on damage done/received by vicious.
It is 2d6/1d6 for one attack and 8d6/4d6 for four attacks. Hence, it is always proportional to (roughly) 50% of the damage dealt.
What I think the argument meant was that if you have a single/few hit/s that do a lot of damage, Vicious is decent since you will not receive much damage but increase the chances of dropping the enemy. If you have many low-damage attacks, Vicious is a bad investment since it'll kill you both.
Edit: right, sort of reonforcing your comment here, the use of the word proportionally threw me off.
Sounds feasable. First thing, have a look at Fire As She Bears and use that, it'll give a lot more depth to the real world feeling you're going for, it is worth the purchase.
For religions, the issue here is that in the real world religion was a driving force, or a strong excuse at least, which is not the case in S&S. It is however, very political, which goes well with point 1.
Guns everywhere then means the 1700s. Look up who the mayor players were in that region and try to connect them to the powers.
Sargava - Cheliax - Shackles relationship is what you might have most trouble with, as there never was a colony paying another power to wage war on their behalf (north american states probably some of the earliest to do it in a big scale).
If anyone says Britain corresponds with Andoran I will find you and cast Bigby's Often Unmentioned But Very Horrible Spell on you. Just joking, moderately. Andoran is hard to fit since they are a freedom fighter nation, which is applicable to exactly 0 colonial powers. Luckily they dont feature in this AP.
France, Netherlands, Britain, Spain, Portugal.
I suggest reading about s game called Sid Meiers PIRATES! play it too if you have tbe chance. There, you start with a small boat and crew and take prizes until the Nations want you to align with them (in the caribbean). You can break off alliances and chose whom you like as allies, but will make you hostile elsewhere. You get letter of marques, get to climb social ladders and fromtime to time end up in prison from where you need to bust out. Good times, bluckes, swashes and ha-ha-stabbings.
Anyway, the story needs minor tweaks and it depends on if your players need a grand scheme or are happy filling their pockets and doing less grand quests.
Good luck with this, sounds fun and very doable.
Erik Mona wrote:
Encouraging, especially in relation to WotW. Thank you for the clarifications.
CHA AND INT to EVERYTHING!!!!
I hope it is done subtlety, with grace and finesse instead.
Disappointed. An Evil AP is for me very good. However an evil AP revolving around Asmodeus? We have Way of the Wicked for that. It is an unimaginative pursuit.
Trying to show non paizo how to do things? Making them irrelevant? Did they perhaps write it in a way that lacked or didnt quite fit for people at Paizo? Did paizo want to explore more in that direction since WotW was well received?
If I play Way of the Wicked I dont feel like playing an Asmodeus paizo AP, and viceversa. Paizo have their whole world to explore and they decide to do something thats uninteresting and not refreshing. On the heels of a cheliax related campaign too. Wasted potential.
No doubt the AP will deliver in quality, as they mostly do. I like Cheliax, I like evil subtle-machinations stories..but this sounds like a regurgitation.
That was an early and highly opinionated...opinion, I am always open to changing my mind if proved otherwise.
I am still very looking forward to when they put their minds to many of the more distant/otherwordly topics in this thread. Or high intrigue (hint of their new book?) where they cater for grey morals instead of black and whites, again.
You're all assuming this guy wants full cleric casting. To OP, of you do want to have a "relevant" caster then the advice given is spot on.
If yoi want a rogue with a dash of something else for utility, just have a look what exactly you want from cleric, particularly what spells. This will let you know how many caster levels you need.
Regardless which you pick, have a look at Magical Knack trait which lets you count as 2 levels higher (up to HD) in a spellcasting class you posses for the effects of its spells (i.e. cure moerate with c3/r4 heals 2d8+5, instead of 1d8+3, divine favour counts as a cleric of 5th level, etc).
Weird Intelligence/dex focused Rogue/Cleric:
How to play?
Consider: Outflank for all your team and keen kukris with Butterfly Sting, and a flanking buddy with a high crit weapon. Praise Desna!
This gets you (at 11):
Remember just cause you play with some cleric levels doesnt mean you are a heal bot. You can flavour things as you like. Youre there m ostly to flank and provide support, and otherwise have skills (hey, same as a rogue).
So you chose damage type (b,p,s). It's a Standard action, ranged (touch, not that it matters for conductive), Su (key), therefore applicable by using 2 charges. If only hexes werent changed from requiring an attsck roll..tsk.
Picaroon is a good candidate for Opening Volley feat and similar, perhaps beyond the scope of your concept though.
I would too suggest you stick with Cleric. They are true power houses as they level up.
Find a couple of good Hours/level spells, like Greater Magic Weapon (3rd). Then there are the other amazing spells such as Divine Favour which will pump your damage. Eventually, you'll be a true powerhouse of which rangers and fighters will be jealous.
Have a look at what people build with animal companions, they can also be fun.
Ey BBT perhaps MStranger dip with the resŧ in Soundstriker with a Conductive weapon could be your thing.
I would mostly like to know why are we getting CANTRIPS at level 11. I put that close to combat expertise. Someone explain this to me.
Otherwise VMC is a great..start. Some of the options are good, dynamic and make sense. Others fail miserably. I am a fan of Unchained but this needed a much larger section of the book (many things did though..) to make it work smoothly. However, more options, hey!
But why cantrips? Whyyyyyyyy?
Thanks for the suggestions, the craft feats are great and there is space, the bloodline is good too but I will stick to wizard, great way to circumvent the Animate Object.
Now, much discussion on Unseen Servant but quite sure it can reload a weapon once per round (a pistol or xbow). It's not for PFS.
I've gotten down the build concept and background:
So, he's an old captain originally from Alkenstar (insert generic Gonepowder Nation here) who now roams the seas mostly on his own, scarred and tired, and has a bit of a tragic past as many in the high seas end up with. As the sole survivor of a battle he saw all his crew, who he considered like brothers and sisters, felled before him and was denied his duty to go down with the ship and crew. He was made an example of at a harbours and eventually ended as a slave in galleys. This was due to a dealing of one of his crew to sell out some of Alkenstars secrets, and they all got punished for it. He always saw it as his mistake, not that of the crew, for having failed to notice. Some events later and we're at the present, where he plunders ships from Alkenstar for guns, naming each new acquisition after one of his dead crew. He carries them strapped on himself and on tne coat, using his arcane snd gunsmithing knowledge to set ablaze whatever is between him and his twisted, melancholic search for closure.
How do we do it?
This should give a tremendous barrage, whilst anyone can say thst doing a fireball is probably better, well it isnt as cool as some old weathered man taking on a crew by himself with floating guns he calls by name.
Right, so that's the story and concept, wont be playing this as a PC just thought Id try a fun NPC.
Edit: Im really dont know how craft constructs works and what sort of prices it is hence I hacent made the comparison.
Trying to build a character with the following concepts:
It is not for a PC but building it as it were, for levels 8-15 or so. I have this image of a guy sailing on a small craft or being marooned, then being taken on board by a larger vessel or approached, and at that point shows his hand, a floatingdiskloads of loaded guns and cannons floating in front of their faces..."I'll be comandeering this ship", basically a character that takes over ships alone.
What I have so far:
I could use a bit of help with ideas of how to put this together, I am not great with gunslinger nor siege stuff.
It's always better to know why this happens than to act first, but Judge Dredd would be proud of you. Jokes aside, I imagine you had pinpointed why you wouldnt invite the player back from more than a single act of murderhoboness. Then again I also play with friends not just relative strangers, so I am biased towards trying to investigate the 'whys'.
Theoretical totally fantasy example: your player had been watching Captain Harlock and he also hated the lawful dystopian world Raving Dork had set up, so he decided to comandeer the ship, take over it and then propose his sky-pirate-revolution plan to his party whod have otherwise shot his plan down, but now it is done and voila, so commences the story of *CRASH BURN SCREAM DEATH*
Remember kids dont dump your intelligence to 3. /fantasy end