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As stated, Arcane Tricksters are hard stuff to build. My favourite take on it is a melee Arcane Trickster though.
Ninja (scout) + Magus (kensai)

Slower spell casting, however with a whip you can stay at range and deliver full round attacks. Ninja gives you an extra attack as a swift action (colliding with some magus arcanas, but still) and Magus allows you do do SpellCombat, which is yet another attack. Can also turn invisible as a swift action.
Strength and Intelligence, some dex?

Not the most efficient but an interesting character to play with, having to watch out for positioning yet with some strong defensive options (Mirror image/invisibility as swift/decent AC-shield-int-dex-armour) and a mix of everything. Oh and sneak attack cause that's what we're here for.

Hello there!

Spellslingers, by RAW, can use spells of ANY class. Scarred witch doctor (CON)? can do. Sorcerer CHA? Can do!

So pick Spellslinger Wizard and then sorcerer and go from there.

How about this:

Phalanx Soldier(until you get the 2h in 1h)/Sacred Shield Paladin.

This gives you a lot of fun things to do, playing with reach and being by your allies to minimise the damage around them.
I played a character who was an Oracle of Battle (with the sudden charge revelation), who dipped 2 levels (and eventually 4) into Sacred Shield, then would dip into Phalanx Soldier for the 1handed polearm and continued oracle.

Went with Combat Patrol chain and the sort, a good battlefield controler.

Hey, I played one similarly. I went Oracle of BattleX/Paladin Sacred Shield 4/Polearm Fighter 3.
Mixed with Combat Patrol, the revelation of sudden charge, the 1/2 damage to allies from paladin and being able to wield a 2h with a shield in 1 hand..quite interesting.

Anyway, I suggest Sacred Shield archetype as a Paladin :)

Gillmen in the adv race guide have a really interesting archetype for you. Allows a 3rd level spell.

Nice! Alright, adding a bit more since there are some threads about using Vital Strike and such around again:

Improved Feint (Feat): You can make a Bluff check to feint in combat as a move action (instead of standard)

ps: note to self dont shorten "standard" to "std".

More multiclassing!

Kensai Magus might be a good dip for you. As a rogue, it gives you access to a lot of rather useful spells (to use as wands/scrolls).
It also gives you in one level:
Weapon Focus
Exotic Weapon Proff
1 point of AC if possitive Int score (and wearing light armour)
Spell Combat (can cast in a pinch if necessary though you'll have few spells)
Arcane Pool for +1 enhancement to weapon as a swift action/1 minute

Gives you access to True Strike which is what you want for a sure Trip.

Personally I love a few more levels in kensai for rogues, for extra attack (spellstrike) giving you more sneak attack and the Arcana to add your Int to your attack bonus for ALL your attacks that round.

Hello everyone,

This is a recopilation that everyone can use but will likely appeal to a specialised few. I would like your help with it though!
It is a guide about what to do when you have spent your Standard Action doing something and have a Move Action left over and don't want/can't move.

The reason for this guide is that I was trying to put together a character concept revolving around sniping with a crossbow. Almost futile. Threads like "One Big Hit build" and many others dealing with Vital Strike, Cleave and such have been the kindling for this.

Now, I have only a few suggestions and since Pathfinder is vast, perhaps we can all put down what we know. Eventually we can wrap this up in a google doc or with pretty colours :)



Team Up: Aid Another as a Move Action
Bulls Eye Shot: Gain +4 bonus on a ranged attack as a move action (PF Companion: Faiths of Purity)
Equipment Trick:Varies depending on the armament. Adventurer’s Armoury.
Master Siege Engineer: Crew can load Siege as a Move Action

Class Abilities or "dips"

Ranger(Freeboter): lvl1 – Freebooter’s Bane as a move +1 attack/damage to allies within 30ft against a foe, +1 per 4 levels(replaces Favoured Enemy)
Lvl 4- Freeboter’s Bond – Move action to grant flanking allies a +2 bonus to attack with freebooter or affected allies within 30 ft
Alchemist: Swift Alchemy Lvl 3 – Apply poison as a move action (as swift at 6)
Alchemist (Grenadier): Lvl 1 – Attach an alchemical weapon as a move to your shot
Barbarian (Drunken Brute): Lvl 1 – Drink as a move action (replaces Fast Movement)
Rogue (Scout): Lvl 8 - When you Move 10 ft in a round and attack opponent is dealt Sneak Attack as flat footed
Bard: Lvl 7 - Start Bardic Performance as Move Action instead of a Standard Action

Accelerated Drinker: Drink as a Move Action as long as Potion is already in your hand


STANDARD ACTIONS or "what's the point of this"
There are many great things that use Standard Actions in Pathfinder. It opens a different play style all together. It also decreases player's turn time with just one role or simple action.

- Vital Strike (Double weapon damage die)
- Cleave (Hit adjacent target if first hits)
- Focused Shot (Int to xbow/bow damage, 30ft)
- Sorcerer Bloodline Powers
- Oracle Revelations

Adding to the recopilation, what to have in mind:
Feats are always good, as full attacking becomes more prominent using Standard actions fades away when possible, so even if the feats have a high prerequisite they are worth mentioning. E.g. Vital Strike chain.

Class abilities preferably must come early, for dips, however it would be good to have a list of all "as a move action" abilities that classes get for possible combinations.

To give an idea of how playstyle may change:

Thrills the Standard Action Switch Hitter:

I decided to build a Switch Hitter specialised in killing with one crossbow bolt, that could grab his meele weapon and still do well.
For this I turned to Heavy Crossbows(large), Vital Strike, Alchemist, Barbarian and Consumables.
Accelerated Drinker Trait.
This guy walks with iron vials in his hand ready to drink. Gravity Bow/Lead Blades/etc. Helps that the Gm allows the D&D masterwork Potion Belt.
1-4 levels in Alchemist.
This gives Bombs (2d6+Int). 2nd level extracts for Alchemical Allocation. Conductive Weapon allows you to use Bombs with a shot for 2 charges. Alchemical Allocation allows him to drink potions of Greater Invis/Named Bullet/Whatever up to level 3 without spending them.
1-2 levels in Barbarian.
This gives Furious Finish to maximise damage from Vital Strike ending your rage. You need a BAB of 6 though.
Kirin Strike. Using this Style Feat he'll add even more Intelligence damage to that single shot/hit. (Kirin+Targeted Admixture+Bombs = 4x Int damage)
Vital Strike feat chain and Impact Weapon/Gravity Bow/Lead Blades. See the Vital Strike threads out there.
He's a bit more complex with extra multiclassing but this is the bare version:

1 Alchemist - F:Point Blank Shot, Half Elf Ancestral Arms: Repeating Xbow
2 Alch - Discovery: -
3 Alch - F:Precise Shot
4 Alch - Discovery: -
5 Ranger Freebooter- F:Bulls Eye Shot
6 Barb -
7 Barb- F:Vital Strike, Rage Power: Furious Finish

Feel free to give your character examples that use Standard Actions (but in Spoilers please)

Ah that's why you were making such a fuss about the Klar being sub optimal in another thread :) What other weapon are you using?
At what level are you?

As always the "Finale" spells are maginificent. Also simple buffing in first round, Song+Quickened Spell+Spell, is going to make you/your party great.

If you're melee, Mirror Image, Displacement, are great. I do a fair bit of tanking with my arcane duelist (we're a party of 3/4 bab, I use crane style and fighting defensively). Cant help you with high level stuff though.

HaraldKlak wrote:

I wouldn't have any problems with it.

If anything, daggers is going to be weaker than a bow (shorter range, more expensive enchanting).

Blink Back Belt.

Blueluck wrote:

I recently discovered Archon Style...

Archon Style is powerful. Broken powerful I think. I have an Arcane Duelist aasimar who uses Crane Style (dip into unarmed warrior), couldve chosen Archon Style but it would just spoil the gm's fun.

Elephant Stomp won by a large margin on "most useless feat" threads where it appeared. Forget it.

The question about Overrun is a good one. Look at the feat Charge Through for more confusion :)

1 person marked this as a favorite.

You're going to get an army suggesting that someone play a bard, so I'll be their vanguard.

Put a bard in there. Bards can come in many flavours too. The bigger the party is, the more awesome a bard is.
Also a rogue or vivisectionist can get a lot of flanking partners, making their sneak attacking easy to pull off and therefore a joy to play.

Sohei Monks can flurry with some weapon groups, and do not need to dip fighter because they gain weapon training.

"At 6th level, a sohei gains weapon training in one of the following weapon groups, as the fighter class feature: bows, crossbows, monk weapons, polearms, spears, or thrown weapons. He may select an additional group of weapons for every six levels after 6th, to a maximum of three at 18th level. A sohei may use flurry of blows and ki strike with any weapon in which he has weapon training. "

Here we go!
Two handed thrower.

Azaelas Fayth wrote:

Spellslinger gets no benefits from using a Crassbow. And will rarely benefit from Vital Strike.

That's why I mentioned you'd do it to get a firearm :) and to get a cheap Ghost Touch firearm. The Crossbow thing is a choice for flavour.

I remember seeing something, perhaps a barbarian arch that allowed to throw 2 handed weapons at BAB...cant find it now.

Azaelas Fayth wrote:

Spellslinger and Prescience school is an illegal combo.

Thank you for the clarification! I havent played him yet, just building him. It's..complicated, trying to make Crossbows AND vital strike an efficient choice. What exactly doesnt combine of the school and archetype?

School of the Gun replaces Arcane School. Thanks!

I really like this. I have been trying to make a character work with a crossbow. It's a headache. You can do MUCH better with a firearm or crossbow.

With this change it makes Vital Strike a real possibility with crossbows.

Firearm: same damage, higher multiplier, can reload as move (with feat/thing) no matter the type if 2 hander.
Bows: We've all seen the threads.

Building a switch hitter you can also use Vital Strike. In this case "Impact" weapon property would help.

I'll elaborate on what I'm building. He's a switchhitter/potion user with a repeating crossbow and a lot of Int.
Alchemist 4 levels (level 2 alchemical allocation)
Barbarian 2 levels (Furious Finish Vital Strike)
Rest in Fighter/Barbarian/Alchemist/Cavalier/Ranger..whatever you like

Accelerated Drinker trait (guy carries iron vials in his hand so as a move you can chug Gravity Bow/targetted admixture/whatever you need).
Kirin Style + Kirin Strike feats for adding x2 Int as a swift.
Conductive Weapon on the crossbow to add bombs (+int) to shot.

You can make it more impressive by one level Wizard Spellslinger to get a good nice firearm and the Prescience school.

To drink potions as a move action instead of a Standard (which lets you combine it with things like Vital Strike and other Standard action of other classes such as Alchemist Explosive Missile, Arcane Archer Imbue Arrow, Cleave, Spells..):

Drunken Rager Barbarian 1: lets you drink as move
Accelerated Drinker Trait: same, so long as it's in your hand already.

Alchemists are good at this with potions. Special mentions of
Alchemical Allocation (level 2 spell, spit back the potion, gain effects but not consuming it)

Jubal Breakbottle wrote:

That conductive ability is AWESOME for Alchemists. That's right with Guided for Wisdom-based characters.

Oh Wow Oh Wow. Thank you for this, catching that bombs are a Su ability!

You can take Imp.Unarmed Strike as a discovery if you are an Internal alchemist.

You can also take the Grenadier Alchemist, use your move to attach an alchemical compound to your shot and shoot it. Still the splash+int in damage. Like this you can also use Vital Strike with it.

Kirin Style. x2 int to damage as a swift action.

Some advice is to pick up a movie character or such you like and try to find what is it that makes it sound like that. (I.e. Inigo Montoya from princess bride...check out spaniards...drunks...)

Stand Up Comedy is a great place to get british accents.


Check this thread out for some ideas. It is mostly about ranged and a bit later levels, but the mechanics discussed are relevant.

Btw 2 levels Barbarian for Furious Finish if you want to one hit something at early levels.

Another option:

Work in Shatter Defenses and Deadly Stroke.

Fighter level 8 minimum (or samurai 8, kensai 11).
Find ways to add shaken (Ranger Falconer, Rogue Rake i think, etc).
At BAB 11 things should be exploding if you have enough + modifiers.

I.e. level 11
Weapon Training +2 +2(glovesdueling)
Deadly Aim: +4 (or +6 one level after)
STR modifier: +5
Weapon Spec: +2
+weapon: +1+1d6element
+Kirin Style (i'd throw it in): +8

4+4+5+2+1+8+1d6(3) = +27
Deadly Stroke 27x2 = +54 +double weapon damage (2d10?)

This at level 11, without looking into buffs or manuch stuff.

And you can still move.

(Note that the build I posted above is MUCH more versatile. This one just does damage. The other is getting about 50 damage at 8th level guaranteed plus spells and shenanigans)

Some good suggestions and ideas in this thread!

Dead Shot of gunslinger + Kensai's Perfect Strike is SCARY.

I'm currently building a sniper as a "one hit" wonder. Based around Vital Strike and Kensai 4th level Max out your damage. Perhaps a large or double heavy crossbow (2d8), but bows give str to damage too.

Spells like Named Bullet (lvl3 ranger, auto crit) and Aspect of the Falcon (ranger 1, x3 crit modifier), gravity bow, plus the maxing weapon damage or increasing multiplier from the Kensai, make for a hefty sniper.

Be invisible, pick your target, buff, destroy. Throw in Arrow Erruption for surprises.

I'm making it an int archer...he'll be using Kirin Strike.

Here's a rough sketch of my build:

Vivisectionist/mindchemist:3 for sneak, potion brewing, xint knowledge check
Fighter Unarmed:1
Arcane Archer:2 for AoE arrows
Arcane Trickster:X

This will give him Magus spell progression, Arcanas, max full base dmg on demand, Sneak Attack progression, Kirin Style/Strike. Making him a very efficient assasin.
This is not to compete with a full attacking archer, that'd be stupid.

Feats to consider:
BullsEye shot, Deadly Aim, Vital Strike chain, IUS/KirinStyle/KirinStrike.

Alternative routes:
Scout Rogue Arch (combinable with ninja): At 8th level move 10 feat and get Sneak Attack on one attack.

Other stuff:
He'll be a potion maniac, using the Alchemist's Allocate Alchemy to chug a potion but not consume it, depending on the situation. Up to level 3 spells. Named Bullet, Greater Invisibility (thank you Summoner spell progression!), Venomous Bolt..

The guy still have Spell Combat, Spell Strike, several escape spells.

Hope that at least gave you some ideas :)

Peet wrote:
Mergy wrote:
I can see a rather esoteric build combined with the belt of hurling from UE; you would be a pretty bad thrower up to that point however.

Well, I played my first PFS game today using this character. The idea is that he'll be a two-weapon thrower and a two-weapon fighter. Basically if it comes down to it, the idea that I don't have to worry about which items I have in my hands is useful. But at 1st level, melee fighting with 2 chakrams and a Reflex save of 2 probably means that I kill myself in about 3-4 rounds of fighting. :P

But later on in this character's life it becomes a better option. Things like Weapon Focus and Specialization work better if you can use the same weapon for both melee and ranged. And a Chakram does 1d8 so I'm not sacrificing anything damage-wise, except crits.

I'd prefer not to wear heavy armor for mobility and armor check issues, but it looks like I won't be able to do both at once. Mithral is a possibility but mithral heavy armor is very expensive.

Speaking of heavy armor (and derailing the thread a bit) what is a good set of heavy armor for keeping the armor check penalties low? I have a 15 Dex and that will likely increase so I want to keep a dex bonus. Is agile half plate good or is it a trap?


Sohei monk can get good used of throwing chakrams with many attacks, weapon training etc.

Run, Just Run wrote:
I realized feint won't work and I thought intimidate would but it does not. So I guess I'll just have to save for an invisibility ring and play a goblin for an insane bonus to stealth.

Ninja Vanish trick.

Umd level 1 scroll. DC 21.

Just because humans and other animals function one way doesnt mean all do. There are species of Bark Beetles that are inbreeding.

Also if they managed to grow to 2000 surviving the evolutionary bottle neck of a population of 3, chances are they are thriving. Could be attributed to a very fast rate of mutation, which sort of fits goblins. Perhaps even considering they live in bad environments, caves, etc, they are genetically disposed for this.

Or Deus Ex Machina, ey why not, it worked for the greeks.

ROTL with more than a 15 point buy is stupidly easy.

PS I like the aim of the thread though! Good idea!

Ashiel wrote:


Cloak of Disappearance
Aura faint illusion; CL 3rd
Slot shoulders; Price 4,800 gp; Weight 1 lb.
This cloak appears to be woven from spidersilk, and has an almost translucent appearance when viewed against the light. By pretending that your foes cannot see you (a free action) the cloak actually causes you to turn invisible for up to 30 rounds per day. These rounds needn't be consecutive. Anything that breaks invisibility also ends the invisibility granted by this cloak.
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, invisibility; Cost 2,400 gp

Ashiel this item is crazy powerful especially for such a low price. It gives rogues sneak attack as a free action 30 times per day. There are feats that are increibly taxing to get this done. Ninjas need to spend a SWIFT action and 1 out of their usually max4-7 ki pool points to get this.


First thing you need to buy is MULEBACK CHORDS

If you think of dipping monk (i.e. master of many styles), Kirin Style is a way of delivering damage (through INT ninja rolled a very high int, low wisdom, which gives a lot of play and does some not so recommended acrobatic checks :P)

Haste if no one in your party has it too.
Jester's Jaunt if you're interested in this style.

Because my Battle Oracle preffers to smoke his pipe peacefully in total cover while my Archer Fighter/Ranger fires 5 arrows with gravity bow and buffs cast on it.

Also known as:

No point in rolling, it'll just slow the fight down, just let the archer's turn come faster.


Also having a 20ft reach (lucerne hammer, enlarge, lunge), and able to cast Oracle's Burden (Blind).

LazarX wrote:

If you're going Kensai. the sword is your thing and only thing. That is the essence of the class.

If you want to mix up sword use and boot to the face.... Go straight fighter. It's the only way to get the feats you need to pull both off.

If you want all that and magic.... You're going to have to choose two of the three things you want.

Style Feats...

Conundrum wrote:
Muay Thai doesn't train for grappling Wraith thats BJJ. He wants a Half-orc Tony Jaa not a Half- orc Royce Gracie :-)

Muay Thai has heavy use of grappling. Not necessarily on the floor making man love, but clinches, throws, locks, etc.

Edit: On thing is the sport, with rules about how/where to strike. Another is the martial art itself. Most martial arts cover all fighting situations. Muay Boran was a weapon originally, not a sport.

tocath wrote:
c873788 wrote:

16 str; 12 con; 14 dex; 10 int; 10 wis; 14 chr

Lets pick bludgeoner and sap adept as 1st and 3rd level feats (Note: bite and claw attacks surprisingly do bludgeoning damage as well).

3 attacks (+2 BAB and +3 Str) to hit with no penalty for 2...

This build also seems like it would pair well with Snake Style. You already have Improved unarmed strike for free for purposes of your natural attacks.

Skill Focus: Sense Motive would really start to make a lot of sense with this build as well!

NOTE: If you are going to take Skill Focus, as a human, take the Alternative Trait that lets you take a Skill Focus every so many levels.

My ninja is using Snake Style and also going into Shadow Bloodline (Hide in Plain Sight, cool shift of characters and generally fitting/flavour), allowing me to take SF:Sense Motive, Stealth and eventually something else.

Flame Oracles have a similar (and more powerful) vision I think.

I have a Ninja/Oracle. One level in Oracle (Waves). The trick has been discussed before so it isnt new but: Obscuring Mist + Water Sight. It's a fun trick full of flavour.

"Water Sight (Su): You can see through fog and mist without penalty as long as there is enough light to allow you to see normal..."

I have used this to great effect, though you have to take care for your allies...they might not see a thing either.

Means you get sneak attack if they cant see you. If you go more than one level Baleful Polymorph is quite amazing.

Animation wrote:

In the Pathfinder rules, what is the best way to make a fighter with full BAB (or near full) who still had a good AC but who wears light armor? Basically a city-themed character who, cinematically, could still be a front line fighter in light armor, should he/she become an adventurer.

I thought about a level of monk and some wisdom action, but maybe thats ineffective.

Is there a good way to do this?


I suggest using "Fighting Defensively" and Crane Wing Style (feats 1 and 3, attained through a monk moms dip or unarmed fighter)

- F.defensively: 2 Ac, -4 hit
- Crane Style: 2 Ac, -2 hit
- Crane Riposte: 3 AC, -1 hit
- 3+ ranks in acrobatics: 4 AC, -1 hit.

Know you mentioned Magus.

Spell Combat as a level 1 dip is amazing, giving you -so- much utility. For example True Strike. You're a Lore Warden, make that CM attack really count.

Dips for Ninjas/Rogues into Monk, I think, are a brilliant idea because of Style Feats. Some pearls in there.

2 levels in monk when being a ninja also gives you evasion.

Depends on the flavour.

Sacred Shields are very fun if you are a dedicated bodyguard. Throw on top of it Bodyguard feats, enchantments (Ultimate Equipment has some crazy good ones for armour/weapons when in Aid Another) and it's fun.

I'm playing a Oracle/Paladin/Fighter, goes as follows:
3-4 levels Paladin (Sacred Shield abilities, CHA to saves..)
3 levels Fighter (Phalanx fighter, can use a 2 hander with 1 hand and shield, so it can work with Sacred Shield
X Battle Oracle - spontaneous movement, great CMBs, great Initiative rerolls, Enlarge spell...

Disruptor and makes everyone take 50% less damage from the big baddies, can INMEDIATELY dash to an ally to make him benefit from the aura.

Combining it with Combat Patrol, a Lucerne Hammer, Lunge, Enlarge, Charge Through, Improved Overrun, and things like that and well, no one's getting to my archer ranger any time soon.

Mergy wrote:
guile pool...

This, a hundred times this. You might loose trapfinding, but you also might gain an extra attack per round for 1 Ki, Mirror Image ninja Trick, etc.

While you found out you cant multiclass rogue/ninja you can still take archetypes.

I reccomend Bandit or Scout.

Personally, Rogue and Ninja advanced tricks are something that I wish were cross-class. Your DM might agree to this.

Ninja Master Trick: Greater Invisibility is a pretty good one.

The normal Rogue talent that lets you move out without getting hit by AoOs is decent aswell (although with an acrobatics check perhaps you can get by without it, dm dependant).

Personally the Bloodline feats are really interesting to flesh out a character - for my human ninja I am taking Shadow Bloodline (Eldritch heritage they are called i think), giving Darkvision and swapping positions with allies, as well as Hide in Plain Sight.

Fast Stealth is generally suggested in these forums.

Good luck let us know what you stick with!

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