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Errant Mercenary's page

445 posts (449 including aliases). No reviews. 1 list. No wishlists. 1 alias.


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For the sake of this awesome build, which I preffer with Kensai:

Riverwhip makes your attacks TOUCH attacks. Remember to take magical knack as a trait.

Spell Combat + Greater Invis + Swift for an extra attack.

Ranged one shot alchemist; the art of war

Can be built in many ways but uses extracts and expensive potions/elixirs with alchemical allocation to be a deadly ranged combatant,focusing on Int, only shooting once a round but adding a tonne of riders (vital strike, kirin strike, bombs,, extracts admixtures, hollowed projectiles, etc).
The idea is that it can take down a priority target in one shot and also choose the battlefield. He has a myriad of tools to accomplish the "never fight" and "know your enemy" of the Art of War. A skirmisher, hit and run specialist.

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
I follow the AP recommendation of 1 pt. per trip to port. Our group is level 8 now, with 4 players, and I find the gold values pretty much bang on... challenging, but bang on. Less gold to the PCs would make that group a bit anemic. Plus, I don't want to run into a hypothetical scenario where they leave for months (lost a sea or something) and owe thousands of gold pieces to the crew... that would be silly. To give a weekly pay to pirates... is to no longer call them pirates... just sayin' ;)

Damned good point! Consider that changed to plunder per prey/selling wares.

Are people's players changing plunder into gold straight away? What do they use plunder for? Are they using the gold for themselves?

Bandw2 wrote:
I feel like someone should go around and redo them, and not necessarily make them 1 per class, druids or cavaliers and what not have enough different abilities to fill out a few VMCs on a theme. Also, getting something at every other feat level is pretty limiting, i think they should just swap 5 feats for a whole package.

I agree. There shouldve been several options:

Druid - basic
Druid - animalcompanion focus
Druid " wild.shape focus
Druid - domain/casting.focus

Remember paizo's unchained is just testing the waters - advanced VMC can easily be a future prospect in other books.

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
The Captain is the ultimate authority at sea, in every culture

Apparently the Swedish East India Trading Company ship Gotheborg of the late 1700s ( had an agent as an embassador from the Trading Company who could overrule the captain, though it wouldve been very daft of him to do so in many situations and was never called upon. He was the one conducting all the actual trading.

At sea, every culture does have the captain being the supreme authority (unless for exceptions like above). At port and off duty, not always the case. A call to depose of a captain could happen (only in some very select pirate cultures that we know of, i.e. age of sail). I admit to not having a direct source apart from articles and stuff I remember reading.

This thread does deal with the PCs being at port to trade plunder however. Here, it is very important to note that the captain does not have so much power. A crew member could potentially walk off and join another crew. Can the captain say no to this?

I am not trying to contradict that the captain is the most powerful figure on a ship, but that his power was situational, and in the Age of Sail pirate vessels this AP simulates, Ship Articles and such were commonly under effect. Ship Articles were a thing, and an agreed payment proportional to the plunder of a ship was to be agreed upon amongst the crew, so were many of the aspects of life onboard. That is rather democratical (close enough). Not every ship would stick to that, being captain through murderous deeds and fear was most likely a thing...humans afterall.

However give more credit to some of the reasons some of these people lived such a persecuted life; the ideal that one had more say over one's life...amongst a myriad other reasons of course.

There are some interesting pirate cultures in the Mediterranean. For example the Eolian islands, north of Sicily, during the Punic wars. They were mostly without a government, plundered everyone. The people of the islands would share the work between sailing/piracy, trading and making wares/staying in the islands to provide. This lasted until they sided with Carthage and the Romans decided these islands needing purging and brought them into their domain.
Another short lived attempt at a pirate rule was the city of Salé for a while. Not sure how their treatment of the people was though.


If you are running a tyrannical ship in the AP however, ahem...
Make those maggots squirm as the sounds of your boots drum on the deck, make them fear for their lifes should they cross (fearful name here)!

A captain who brands each of his sailors (nevermind the slaves) and if they jump ship get prosecuted would be cool. Harrigan does this to an extent, but a mechanic to find such people would be fun. Perhaps reliquish a personal effect when being recruited?

I personally make the PCs cough up 1 piece of plunder per 7 days.

DM_Blake wrote:

Why would you say the command word at the top of the mast? It's not a parachute that needs time to slow you down. It's magic. Just say it at the bottom of the fall, a few feet above the deck - there are no rules about when in your turn you activate this instant ability.


It made me scratch my head for a while though, so much to consider!

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Being on a ship is never democratic - you enter an autocratic, "Captain is God" zone, and if you don't understand this, you will be made to understand somehow; don't confuse mutiny with democracy.

This is only true under sailing conditions or at-battle conditions. The crew had a right to vote and a right to bring up issues. That things divulged into grey areas depending on the crew/officers is a different case.

The captain in a warship of a nation and the captain of a pirate ship were two very different positions. Also, we dont have much information about piracy conducted everywhere in the world. I am under the assumption, as I mentioned before, that we discuss "age of sail"-new world piracy. Chinese seas piracy was was more akin to mercenary armies, dukedoms or mafias, for example.

"Captain is god" only under stressful situations / at sea / on duty, even in modern times. Armies are always more strict.

Furthermore, in many ships, for example in some trading ships (east indiamans) the captain was not the supreme authority; this was the trading company's representative.

PS: perhaps we're talking about different situations/nations/ship cultures though, were you thinking of any particular background?

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
1 plunder everytime they convert their cargo hold to cash... sorry... being on a pirate ship is not a democracy

Ironically it was more democratic than in any other ship heirarchy. (talking colonial-caribbean age of sail piracy, though many in the Mediterranean were also more democratically inclined than others)

Sub-Creator wrote:

Nope. I'm not buying.

All of my players are incredibly mature . . . mature enough to know beyond all reasonable doubt that playing evil characters is not something they're interested in. Also, mature enough to know that to desire evil to gain victory isn't their cup of tea at all.

I would also argue that playing evil is quite easy, actually. It doesn't involve a great amount of depth at all, as evil is very much engrained within human nature. Unwillingness to lie, cheat, steal, or even bend the rules to get what you want or desire (lawful evil characters do this according to the society they wish to uphold, as well, though they do it in a fashion that would be logical, with loopholes -- think lawyers!) isn't easy to play. If you don't believe that good would be more difficult, look at all the Paladin alignment threads out there! People can't seem to grasp how good can even be quantified in-game!

I've also been running games for over 20 years, so I've got plenty of experience doing it. My friends would say I'm pretty good at it. ;)

For us, it's a question of morality and ethics, even in the characters we're portraying. I run evil characters as GM with the knowledge that such characters will get defeated by my players. It's not about evil winning with us. Evil is there to be defeated, not to be the stars of the show.

Thus, I disagree with your two cents. But, I will not argue with your play style! If you enjoy evil, have fun with it...

Man, I wonder what you think of reading gritty fantasy...part of the allure there is that nobody is good by definition. I'm curious, is it a genre you dislike?

*continues fishing with bait from [Opened Can Of Worms]*

It is a fun discussion :) though I think it all hinges on 1. what physic rules are obeyed/obviated and 2. Do turns/initiative affect these set rules in play.

Because you can put all the rules you want but if the ship is having its turn while you fall, it is going to get weird.

We ruled it as falling by the mast, by conserving inertia and ignoring air pressure/resistance (to not discuss whether your mass is the same or that of a feather falling). If wind effects are severe, they will factor in.

My players laughed at me when I was about to say he'd fall in the water..."physics doesnt work that way", and i did agree with them. Then I killed one of their characters. Unrelated...of course.

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I really like the side effect that npcs become tougher. Otherwise they were just exagerated loot pinatas - I generally apply templates to them to actually make them on par without showering the party with gold for an easy fighter kill.

I also liked the idea to trade boni 3 to 1 or 2 to 1 depending what it is, to customise the aspects that you desire.

The disappearance of "cool cloak shame i already got resistance one" is definitely a bonus too. So is the cheaper application of weapon enchantment effects, allowing more varied builds (note: id bump keen to a +2 requirement in this system).

Again, this system has one point which will make players unhappy, even if it is nonsensical: you give them half as much as what you did before. If you ever played with a 25 point buy and went to a 15 pb you can grasp the feeling. Except this one is even more frivolous. Not all players are like that but many do chant "loot loot loot!!!" after tough encounters.

Seppuku wrote:

I am going to be my own wealthy parent and buy my tiger now: Buy a Tiger!

I encourage anyone interested in this to first watch many of the doccumentaries done on animal captivity of exotic pets. Then make up your mind.

88. Because there has to be at least one hot chick in thst crowd, said the most generic bard ever

89. Because statistically if youre from the same area you will be genetically related. Medieval times, people didnt move too far.

kestral287 wrote:

Personally I wasn't fond with either of the Big Six replacements in Unchained as they were written (though my next campaign will probably include modified rules for ABP). Instead, I used the Scaling Magic Items system. Drop a few Amulets/Rings/etc. early and the PCs can put them entirely out of mind, just knowing that when they hit the relevant levels these items go up another tick in power.

Compensating for that wealth is that as a result of this system, Big Six items are not valuable items for shopkeepers. After all, 90% of the shopkeeper's customers are going to be in the level 1-5 range, where such items are +2 at best. Even if you bring back a weapon that the BBEG used as a +10, hand it to the shopkeeper and it drops back to a measly +1-- which means that's what he'll pay you for. Excess wealth solved.

Makes it easier to make weapons unique too. Just tack on a property that can't be added normally, or a 'bonus' property that exists outside the normal scaling (i.e., a sword that gets the standard +1s based on its owner's levels, but also always has the Flaming Burst property). A player isn't inclined to sell or ignore it because it's not disadvantaged compared to their normal weapons.

I will look into the self progressing items, thanks for the suggestion.

There is something that doesnt quite sit right with me about this system though, the deletion of choice in where to allocate your resources.

A character might think he has enough defensive capabilities (heavy armour, casting, very good stats, some strategical schticks) and therefore decide to pour everything into offensive. This choice, whether smart or not, is now removed, making all characters closer to one another. A melee glass cannon is powerful, but has low defenses to compensate, yet now he is average in defenses too. Someone decides that their character is ok with not taking resistances (his class might give rerolls or boni), again standarised.

Example: I had a ninja with terrible AC but used clones, snake style, fog and other sneaky tactics to get out of problems. It was exiliarating to try not get hit and be useful at the same time. This factor would be softened with this system.

Not saying it is better or worse, just that this is intrinsic in the auto system.

I would very much like to hear of any middle ground suggestions or your house rules, or more on scaling magic items and how you used them.

Yes but the difference is that you slapped on some bloodline power and tool 3 feats away from an NPC library fighter, instead of using half hour to create a multiclassed weirdo thing and crunching numbers and restatting :) not always, the multiclass "oh my god he's doing what and does..huh??" does have a sire spot in my heart too.

ABP sounds good but...What about the rest of the gold not spent in the big 6? Still the same amount of loot? If less loot, some players might feel short changed/bored. What about APs, do you need to tweak them?

Edit: just saw it "decrease character wealth by half"

Edit2: surely on the flip side you can just throw more gold at the party. If they just want +s then restrict it by level, if they are a group that needs a lot of gold glint to be kept happy. Same results..

Edit3: ABP does make levelling more fun, for example to those bring cleric levels.

Gun Dragon wrote:
which book do I find the Alchemist (Drow's) void bomb? and what page?

I think it is in Monster Codex, it is a drow only discovery.

It is also sick. On a failed save you fall prone. On a successfull save you can only move 5 feet. Now, combine it with the gnome discovery/archetype that lets them mix bomb effects and combine Void with Breath Weapon. Luckily you cant be a drow gnome as far as I can tell.

Monk of the Four Winds, at level 11 they stop time for themselves, if you need a frontlinet.

Request for Hell's Vengeance, or what Id like to see:

A guide (whether in the AP, players guide or campaign setting) for playing with Evil characters (of the neutral and lawful spectrums, i ignore CE entirely in this post). Evil alignments are tricky and if you do an evil campaign, many folk could use a hand in troubleshooting.

Usable by/for: Players making evil pcs, GMing evil npcs realistically, GMs when handling evil pcs.

Building an evil pc
Goals, procedures (blatant open evil, subterfuge, appearing good), ambitions and flaws, stressing the importance that evil doesnt necessarily mean you dont care for people (some evil adore some people and/or are unwilling to sacrifice others), the scales of evil (what sacrifices these people are ready to make, what drives them, how they might also do good/neutral acts). Relations towards other pcs.

How to keep an evil party together!
The AP will surely have a catch (stray from your way and GODS/higher powers smite you..zzZzZZ), but it is not always the case. Some ideas, guidelines and inter character agreements so the party does not implode. Some guidelines/rules of actual betrayeal within the party (so long as the players know or have given their consent, without it being the point of the game).
The lack of such basic storytelling as betrayals, favoritisms, grey morale areas, are what an Evil campaign could give. Why is it so much fun to read Rival's Guide or Game of Thrones? Because the characters have meaningful relationships, some of which are banned strsight off in good aligned PC parties, killing much potential. This is a very fine line however, so focus on containment and clearness could be prioritised. (note:not for all players...then again evil AP is not for all either).

Different kinds of evil

Examples of evil/darker neutral grounds, who might these be, how they came to be, why they persist in their ways.

The greater good/lesser of two evils: a good course to follow, the fall of a great character from roghteousness into grey moral dilemas that necessitate evil acts, the nomad hero that is forsaken for having done a crime that he had no choice in carrying out to prevent a worse fate.

Environment: in evil environments acting evil/selfish is sometimes just survival. The misguided that never learnt anything else, those that wished they could chose brighter options but must survive, those that consider it a natural result.

Druids: Largely Neutral with possible E sprinkled; neutral and evil druids, getting a bit closer to the primal, instincts, heirarchical, order. From Skull and Shackles Master of the Gales is a perfect example, Ormandar a good evil-strongest of the psck example.

The petty: thieves, swindlers, smugglers. Those that do the small evils, or sometimes the not so small.

The greedy, the evil, those more typical of the alifment, i just gave some examples.

Evil, for whom?
How deities class evil (seems to be a very clear cut thing)
How people in the world class evil. Evil acts, when not under divine ordenance, might appear different to a variety of folk. Andoran freedom fighters might consider a relatively neutral sct to be evil. Just some scales as to how some specific folk might react. Big big caveat: dont want to fall into "what is evil" nor heavy alignment discussions; only that denizens metres might vary. Racial wars between old enemies might go beyond evil, dwarves vs orcs etc.

The plan
How to bring about a good machination with subtle manipulations or overt acts. Emphasising on how to carry out, fot GMs and players, a good evil betrayal/coupdeetat/con/bringing down an empire/government. This is one of the hardest and most important aspects for a successful evil campaign. AKA how to not just burn puupies, rape crops and murder churches, or How to avoid CE cliches.

Empires and races that are evil. What makes them such? Instincts, ambition, twisted magics...
Example npcs, a small codex. Rivals Guide is a fantastic product for example. The Chelaxian party there is a good standard with relationships within evil parties that would be very nice to be able to bring out in actual PC parties.

Just a few thoughts that could really improve how to run such a setting and perhaps pique the interest of those that only play good.
Playing/GMing evil is difficult, it is a very unexplored area that needs to be handled with finesse and tact. Give us a hand, Paizo :)

Cydeth wrote:

As people seem to be chiming in on their opinions of Hell's Vengeance, I figured I'd give my own two cents. *chink*

I hate running games for evil characters. Utterly, completely despise it. For a one-off? Sure, I can manage that...but only barely. So from the word go, Hell's Vengeance is on thin ice with me.

The only way I will even bother maintaining my subscription through Hell's Vengeance is if Paizo is giving me a fair number of Good-aligned NPCs and monsters for the game. Otherwise...I will cancel, even if it is with a good deal of regret. By and large I agree with a good many design decisions of Paizo, and love most of their Adventure Path plot arcs. This pushing my comfort zone enough that I am extremely hesitant about continuing.

On the other hand, a sufficiently awesome Adventure Path after Hell's Vengeance will likely get me back, so... *shrugs*

It is difficult I agree. It also depends on what kind of players you have. If it devolves in murderhobos or CE fests then it is just boring.

Subtle evil, planned grand schemes? This is awesome, but very very hard to pull off. I would really appreciate if Paizo did a section on how to bring out this part of the game. Some strong guidelines with examples and how to make it arch into other plots.

LE is best when it doesnt LOOK evil until the final moment, when the victim turns around and realises, all too late, how he's been played. (victim need not be good, in fact it is better if it is evil thinking he was getting the upper hand BWAHAAHA!)

Cap. Darling wrote:
If this thread acomplished nothing else it just made me buy the PDF:)

Good purchase! I think the gold om VMC is for GMs that can take a fighter NPC and slap something for a more interesting fight.

For example a fighter that turns into s whirlwind! (uh..forgot how I got there..sorcerer bloodlines? Got it writtem somewhere). I bet your players would remember that more than NPC Genericmfoghter #23.

I would say VMC applies to all of your character's progression.
Furthermore while VMC paragraph says that you could use both at the same time though not reccomended, I think it means Player A could do VMC and Player B could stick to normal multiclassing, not that you can do VMC and multiclass ala oldschool within one character.

That is my interpretation though.

kestral287 wrote:
Errant Mercenary wrote:

Gm: your turn remember you are dazed

Smartass player: ok it says here thst "pedantic explanations from this thread"
Gm: ok so what actions do you do?
Player: I take a 5ft step as a non actiom so i can get my aoo as a free action on him
Gm: Well you said you do two actions and the text says you cannot take actions.
Player: "2 hours of more pedantic manure thatd get you looked at weird for, even in law school"
Gm: Right, right you win. So, the guy 5ft steps away, summons T rex that Vital Strikes you..lets see..yes, mmh critical.
Player: ..what, Im dead...
Gm: Yes, yes you are. Also, dead means dead, no actions even if they are free, non or vegan. /pedantic sunglasses

...Is how to deal with too much loophole abuse and ruleslawyering. I bet your players will be STUNNED.

(disclaimer: this is a fun story more about pushing your luck and tiring the gm than anything else. If new, remember, discussions from the Rules forum can, and will, get your character killed.)

Player: "Pendantic rules lawyering that explains that the "dead" condition does not stop a character from taking actions".

Frankly though, that post was rather condescending and insulting. You may not like that it's a valid question, but a 5' step is very clearly spelled out as not being an action. Thus, legally you should be able to take it-- but it's easy to see it as an oversight that should be corrected. And the best way to get it corrected to prevent discussions like your quote is to hit the FAQ button.

I said it was more about bickering with a gm on fine details to slip away from a condition. It happens way too often sometimes and only serves to stop the game. If the gm wants you to be hit with that daze, and you start a long argument about it in the hopes to evade fate, he can still do whatever he had planned, and probably do worse to you thanks to that. (note: this isnt to say you or anyone here does that).

However, you are right it was too personal, sorry for that, just a reminder to try not bring certain things to the table. This is also the rules forum so these questions are valid and legitimate.

Still think that these conditions, including Nauseated (for which we had a massive thread recently) are very obvious, and reading between the lines is just far fetched. As always, the language they use for move/actions/etc could be clearer.
I dont see how or why anyone would be able to 5ft step while stunned, a condition that makes them drop everything they are carrying.

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Gm: your turn remember you are dazed
Smartass player: ok it says here thst "pedantic explanations from this thread"
Gm: ok so what actions do you do?
Player: I take a 5ft step as a non actiom so i can get my aoo as a free action on him
Gm: Well you said you do two actions and the text says you cannot take actions.
Player: "2 hours of more pedantic manure thatd get you looked at weird for, even in law school"
Gm: Right, right you win. So, the guy 5ft steps away, summons T rex that Vital Strikes you..lets see..yes, mmh critical.
Player: ..what, Im dead...
Gm: Yes, yes you are. Also, dead means dead, no actions even if they are free, non or vegan. /pedantic sunglasses

...Is how to deal with too much loophole abuse and ruleslawyering. I bet your players will be STUNNED.

(disclaimer: this is a fun story more about pushing your luck and tiring the gm than anything else. If new, remember, discussions from the Rules forum can, and will, get your character killed.)

new physics question! (sorry to derail but its yhe physics sjenanigans indeed):
Someone atop a mast of a moving ship casts featherfall and lets himself drop. Where does he land? Ship has one mast. Wind speed is considered 0.

Fist2Jaw wrote:

So today I wanted to try the ever so interesting "Feather Token: Anchor attached to an Arrow" Trick, giving it some thought about how I'd need to shoot my arrow to get full efficiency. I figured that my GM, if I told them that I was shooting with my feather token arrow and hit, would make up some b~%+*@+# excuse that the arrow isn't sticking into my opponent or something, so I figured I could try to shoot above the opponent and than activate the Token using a verbal command. But than I'm told that my character, a Zen Archer monk with an intelligence of twelve, couldn't time the right moment when my arrow would be above my target and use the word command to activate the feather token. What the f*+$?

So what sort of skill would my archer need in order to logically be able to calculate the timing and angle to shot an arrow above my opponent at the right moment to activate the feather token to turn it into an anchor, which I would hope drop right on top of my enemy?

Common sense is the skill you are after. Mostly because it is used to understand stuff like this is not a viable tactic and your GM is sensible to shoot it down.

It is pretty cool, if you pull it off once, I'd definitely allow it (unless it's to one shot a BBG with flimsy rules). Any medium threat? You're on.
I suggest your GM make you take a REFLEX save since it is the closest we have to MADSKILLZOMG in the real world.
Otherwise Profession: Ballistic Engineering, with an Int score to match.

Devilkiller wrote:

It is kind of funny that not long after Weird Words finally got a workable FAQ it seems to be poised to get sent back to Limbo again.

If you're shooting bursts of sonic damage at people there's nothing there which implies to me that it is "continuous" damage which happens gradually. Anyhow, if you hit an enemy with Weird Words and it reduced his hit points below 0 I figure that he'd drop right away, not at the end of the round or even the end of your turn. The familiar could also ready an action to perform after your turn is done, when an enemy takes a certain action, etc.

It might have been better if the 4th level Duettist ability had been worded so that only the Bard or familiar could create a bardic performance effect in a particular round. That's not how it got written though.

Edit for shortness: Seems to work, however probably unintended.

You're twisting this too much. This is an unintended effect from archetypemmixing, a far stretch. More so since the duettist later has an ability to do a performance each. So no, not doing it at level 4 just cause people want to break rules by reading way too much into things.

If you want to read it purely pedantically..well up to you but most sensible gms wont let this fly. Though interesting loophole for sure.

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1-2 levels Master of Many Styles
Rest in Spell Dancer
Traits: magical knack, brawler or somesuch (+hit aoo unrmed)
Feats: Combat Style Master, dodge, mobility, Panther Style 1+2, Snake, Style 1+3, Combat Reflexes, weapon finesse
Pauldrons of the snake, amulet mighty fists
Arcana: flamboyant etc for damage
Spells: Frostbite
Stats: dex for Ac/hit, wis for AC + panther, int for casting
How: round 1 activate your styles (free action), activate spell dance (swift), cast Frostbite (standard), MOVE and provoke AoO from as many foes as possible.

What?: An enemy attempts to hit you; you hit them back (panther), if theh miss you (mobility +4, spelldance +2-+4, pauldrons +2) you attack them again (Snake), if you hit you attack again (snake, immediate).

Say 3 enemies in the field. You potentially do 7 attacks in a round.

Damage?: Unarmed + Frosbite 1d6+CL + flamboyant level + anything else you got.

Intelligent enemies: it only worked once? They took a lot of attacks already, they think if they dont attack you from AoO you arent dangerous. Walk up to them and SpellCombat that smug face.

AC: 10 + armour 4 + dodge 1 + dex 5 + wis 4 = 24
On the move: mobility +4, spelldance +4, pauldrons +2 = 34

Hit: Weakest part. Invest in amulet, get Weapon finesse, cast Greater magic weapon daily, use arcana int to hit when you have swift actions available (round 2), move smart so you flank at the moment of provoking.

It's a fun build to do. Make sure your GM is on board with this.

Like this enough and you dont mind not being a full caster? Slap on 3 levels duelist.

gustavo iglesias wrote:
mplindustries wrote:
gustavo iglesias wrote:
But if you make a lot of attacks, like, say, 4 attacks, or 6, you take 4d6 or 6d6 damage per round.. 1d6 per turn for your vicious Lance in a cavalier is susteinable (especially with fast healing or similar options). I'd rather do 100 damage in one hit, and take 1d6, than do 25 damage per hit 4 times, and take 4d6 damage.

Except Vicious scales perfectly with the number of attacks you make. You'd be dealing 107 (with vicious) and taking 3.5 yourself in one hit, or, you'd be dealing 32 four times (128 damage) and 14 yourself in four hits.

The damage is proportional. More attacks means you take more damage, but also that you deal more damage.

But 3.5 in 107 is roughly 3% damage back, while 14 in 128 is roughly 11% damage back. You deal more, but you take back proportionally much more

If you are looking at vicious, you should look at damage done BY vicious and damage received FROM vicious only. Damage done by other sources has 0 impact on damage done/received by vicious.

It is 2d6/1d6 for one attack and 8d6/4d6 for four attacks. Hence, it is always proportional to (roughly) 50% of the damage dealt.

What I think the argument meant was that if you have a single/few hit/s that do a lot of damage, Vicious is decent since you will not receive much damage but increase the chances of dropping the enemy. If you have many low-damage attacks, Vicious is a bad investment since it'll kill you both.

Edit: right, sort of reonforcing your comment here, the use of the word proportionally threw me off.

Variant Multiclass Sorcerer can work too.

Also, consider running a different RPG altogether, such as 7th Sea (i think thats what it was called) or Razor Coast's stuff (fire as she bears is part of that but usable in PF), if you arent overly attached to pathfindef.

Sounds feasable. First thing, have a look at Fire As She Bears and use that, it'll give a lot more depth to the real world feeling you're going for, it is worth the purchase.

For religions, the issue here is that in the real world religion was a driving force, or a strong excuse at least, which is not the case in S&S. It is however, very political, which goes well with point 1.

Guns everywhere then means the 1700s. Look up who the mayor players were in that region and try to connect them to the powers.

Sargava - Cheliax - Shackles relationship is what you might have most trouble with, as there never was a colony paying another power to wage war on their behalf (north american states probably some of the earliest to do it in a big scale).
I can imagine Cheliax being the kingdom of Spain. Early mid 1700s their power at sea was still immense, yet waning rapidly, their extraction of treasure from the colonies diminishing (and getting plundered by dutch and english privateers). Cheliax loses this connection with Sargava too, therefore it fits well. The AP could revolve in a hypothetical fleet to bring the Caribbean under spanish rule once again.

If anyone says Britain corresponds with Andoran I will find you and cast Bigby's Often Unmentioned But Very Horrible Spell on you. Just joking, moderately. Andoran is hard to fit since they are a freedom fighter nation, which is applicable to exactly 0 colonial powers. Luckily they dont feature in this AP.

France, Netherlands, Britain, Spain, Portugal.
Another way to play this is have the different Shackles factions be aligned with the different powers. Imagine Kerdak Bonefist being in the British isles, Tessa Fairwind in the French islands like Martinique, Brasil being Sargava (mainland to the south...though portuguese were not about freedom either), Arronax of Hell Harbour correspnd with the Spanish territory and the Master of the Gales at Drenchport with the Dutch (druid free for all everyone gets plundered NOW..dutch!).
That covers the mayor players in the AP.

I suggest reading about s game called Sid Meiers PIRATES! play it too if you have tbe chance. There, you start with a small boat and crew and take prizes until the Nations want you to align with them (in the caribbean). You can break off alliances and chose whom you like as allies, but will make you hostile elsewhere. You get letter of marques, get to climb social ladders and fromtime to time end up in prison from where you need to bust out. Good times, bluckes, swashes and ha-ha-stabbings.

Anyway, the story needs minor tweaks and it depends on if your players need a grand scheme or are happy filling their pockets and doing less grand quests.

Good luck with this, sounds fun and very doable.

Erik Mona wrote:

There will be more posts here from the Paizo staff once PaizoCon is over. The AP staff has not yet conducted their Adventure Path Q&A, which will have a lot more Infformation on Hell's Vengeance. Until then, a couple things:

1) Hell's Rebels and Hell's Vengeance take place at the same time, during the same general rebellion throughout Cheliax. Hell's Vengeance has nothing whatsoever to do with Kintargo, and Hell's Vengeance does not in any way "undo" Hell's Rebels. We've had that concern for months and months, and have planned things accordingly to avoid the problems some people here are worried about.

2) The AP staff is very familiar with Way of the Wicked, and I am certain that they will be taking great pains to provide a very different experience. Although I referenced Asmodeus at the Preview Banquet, in fact the PCs in Hell's Vengeance do NOT work for Asmodeus. They work instead for House Thrune, which isn't the same thing. In fact, friction between House Thrune and Asmodeus is a significant plot point in Hell's Vengeance.

More soon.

Encouraging, especially in relation to WotW. Thank you for the clarifications.

Malwing wrote:

I assume Ultimate Intrigue is a sibling of Ultimate Magic/Ultimate Combat. If that's the case then it's been a long time coming and I'm looking forward to it. I guess I should expect some social and skill alternate rules but I'd be more interested in more skillful archetypes of classes that don't normally get skills. My real hope is that charisma gets enough options where dumping it actually feels like a serious missed opportunity.

I'm kind of not looking forward to a new bestiary but its not like they're ever bad and each one means that I rarely have to build my own creatures.

I wasn't interested in either of the Hell APs but I still need to buy and play The Mummy's Mask and Iron Gods so my money's going somewhere. It is interesting that an evil campaign comes right after Hell's Rebels. I do see the appeal of dueling APs.


I hope it is done subtlety, with grace and finesse instead.

If the new AP happens at the same time Hells Rebels does, and the same place, eventually diverging (depending on which side succeeds) it would be very interesting. Imagine running 2 groups simultaneously one on each.

Disappointed. An Evil AP is for me very good. However an evil AP revolving around Asmodeus? We have Way of the Wicked for that. It is an unimaginative pursuit.

Trying to show non paizo how to do things? Making them irrelevant? Did they perhaps write it in a way that lacked or didnt quite fit for people at Paizo? Did paizo want to explore more in that direction since WotW was well received?

If I play Way of the Wicked I dont feel like playing an Asmodeus paizo AP, and viceversa. Paizo have their whole world to explore and they decide to do something thats uninteresting and not refreshing. On the heels of a cheliax related campaign too. Wasted potential.

No doubt the AP will deliver in quality, as they mostly do. I like Cheliax, I like evil subtle-machinations stories..but this sounds like a regurgitation.

That was an early and highly opinionated...opinion, I am always open to changing my mind if proved otherwise.

I am still very looking forward to when they put their minds to many of the more distant/otherwordly topics in this thread. Or high intrigue (hint of their new book?) where they cater for grey morals instead of black and whites, again.

You're all assuming this guy wants full cleric casting. To OP, of you do want to have a "relevant" caster then the advice given is spot on.

If yoi want a rogue with a dash of something else for utility, just have a look what exactly you want from cleric, particularly what spells. This will let you know how many caster levels you need.

Regardless which you pick, have a look at Magical Knack trait which lets you count as 2 levels higher (up to HD) in a spellcasting class you posses for the effects of its spells (i.e. cure moerate with c3/r4 heals 2d8+5, instead of 1d8+3, divine favour counts as a cleric of 5th level, etc).

Weird Intelligence/dex focused Rogue/Cleric:
8 levels Divine Strategist (int to hit when flanking, lvl 8)
3+ Rogue
Domain: Crocodile (1d6 sneak at 6th)
Perhaps pick up Spring Attack when taking rogue levels

How to play?
First levels you play straight up cleric (perhaps 1 level in rpgue early for skills and sneak) and buff/support, focus on skills too. You're a good support and durable if you want (spells).
Later, after cleric 8 and more so rogue 3, flank, hit and never miss. Play more like a rogue.

Consider: Outflank for all your team and keen kukris with Butterfly Sting, and a flanking buddy with a high crit weapon. Praise Desna!

This gets you (at 11):
Int to hit, Dex to hit and Damage
Initiative boost +4
High Int high Dex, wisdom only needs a 14 at 11th, easy
Some sneak attack (3d6), with high chance to hit
4th level cleric spells, some great buffs here, much problem solving too

Weirder still:
VMC into Wizard Foresight (rerolls int times per day)
VMC magus for the arcanas, letting you target flat footed or add int tp hit.
I prefer to play the above build with the Animal, Feather domains, giving you a flanking buddy if your team isnt the right composition.

Remember just cause you play with some cleric levels doesnt mean you are a heal bot. You can flavour things as you like. Youre there m ostly to flank and provide support, and otherwise have skills (hey, same as a rogue).

blackbloodtroll wrote:

What type of damage is Weird Words?

I am really considering the dip into Picaroon.

I would not only grab Quick Clear, but double my Grit pool. ity-questions#66

So you chose damage type (b,p,s). It's a Standard action, ranged (touch, not that it matters for conductive), Su (key), therefore applicable by using 2 charges. If only hexes werent changed from requiring an attsck roll..tsk.

Picaroon is a good candidate for Opening Volley feat and similar, perhaps beyond the scope of your concept though.

I would too suggest you stick with Cleric. They are true power houses as they level up.

Find a couple of good Hours/level spells, like Greater Magic Weapon (3rd). Then there are the other amazing spells such as Divine Favour which will pump your damage. Eventually, you'll be a true powerhouse of which rangers and fighters will be jealous.

Have a look at what people build with animal companions, they can also be fun.

I dont see a clause against it, and Weird Words is an AoE on a 30 foot radius..scatter is 15 or so depeing on weapon, so they are quite similar. You can put Conductive on a bow and use Weird Words since both are ranged attacks.

Gun damage + Charisma (mstranger) + Weird Words damage + Charisma.

blackbloodtroll wrote:

PFS, more or less, caps out at 11th.

I don't need to worry about anything beyond that.

I understand, that Musket Master does two-handed firearms the best, but I was hoping to be charisma based.

The Mysterious Stranger's ability to add Charisma to Attack Rolls, and Damage, is what draws me in.

This is why I am seeing if I can do it, full Mysterious Stranger, or if I would need to go into something like Archeologist, or Spellscar Drifter.

Ey BBT perhaps MStranger dip with the resŧ in Soundstriker with a Conductive weapon could be your thing.

I would mostly like to know why are we getting CANTRIPS at level 11. I put that close to combat expertise. Someone explain this to me.

Otherwise VMC is a great..start. Some of the options are good, dynamic and make sense. Others fail miserably. I am a fan of Unchained but this needed a much larger section of the book (many things did though..) to make it work smoothly. However, more options, hey!

But why cantrips? Whyyyyyyyy?

Perhaps have someone with them who sunders the heads, then dies, to show them how it is done? Hopefully not the dying part too.

Thanks for the suggestions, the craft feats are great and there is space, the bloodline is good too but I will stick to wizard, great way to circumvent the Animate Object.
Unseen servant is...amazing, didnt realise it was hours per level.

Now, much discussion on Unseen Servant but quite sure it can reload a weapon once per round (a pistol or xbow). It's not for PFS.

I've gotten down the build concept and background:
Spellslinger Wizard
Feats: Precise Shot, Point blank shot (sigh), Rapid Reload, Spell Penetration/Focus.
Craft: wondrous, constructs
Metamagic: Bouncing (scorching rays veering to other targets), Extend, Enlarge

So, he's an old captain originally from Alkenstar (insert generic Gonepowder Nation here) who now roams the seas mostly on his own, scarred and tired, and has a bit of a tragic past as many in the high seas end up with. As the sole survivor of a battle he saw all his crew, who he considered like brothers and sisters, felled before him and was denied his duty to go down with the ship and crew. He was made an example of at a harbours and eventually ended as a slave in galleys. This was due to a dealing of one of his crew to sell out some of Alkenstars secrets, and they all got punished for it. He always saw it as his mistake, not that of the crew, for having failed to notice. Some events later and we're at the present, where he plunders ships from Alkenstar for guns, naming each new acquisition after one of his dead crew. He carries them strapped on himself and on tne coat, using his arcane snd gunsmithing knowledge to set ablaze whatever is between him and his twisted, melancholic search for closure.

How do we do it?

As a wealthy pirate he gets Animated Objects made permanent on his guns. If he could cast it himself, at level 11 he'd have 7 guns and 1 cannon (his first mate, Barry). This costs permanency 15k, the guns (craft?) and the casting. His own gun is a pistol named after the cabin boy whom he considered his son, he uses it to cast spells. Enchanted +3.

Casts Unseen Servants before battle, Extended if necessary. They are assigned one to each gun and ordered to reload it if it fires.
Animate Object: cast on the guns it makes them attack on command. Hopefully firing instead of flying at the victim. Their to hit wont be great.
Greater Magic weapon or magic weapon on as many as the guns as possible.
Skeletal crew, mage armour, false life, typical day/hour buffs.
Tiny hut, named bullet, floaing disk (carry the big guns/cannon around)
Havent figured put opposition schools but Evocation and Transmutation he keeps.

(sacrifice a spell for the + where appropriate)
Standard - Cast Scorching Ray/spell from gun or set up Tiny Hut, Invis sphere whatever.
Move - have your 7 guns unload blasts, dragon breath pistols would be coolest.
None - Unseen servants reload guns.
Rinse, repeat.

This should give a tremendous barrage, whilst anyone can say thst doing a fireball is probably better, well it isnt as cool as some old weathered man taking on a crew by himself with floating guns he calls by name.

Big boom:
Barry (the cannon, which could be the bonded weapon as a culverin etc)
Named Bullet spell on a cannon ball
6d6 + enhancement gmw x4 + cl (11)
Cast gravity bow on it first and get vital strike for fun :P

Right, so that's the story and concept, wont be playing this as a PC just thought Id try a fun NPC.
If you see something that wont work do say.

Edit: Im really dont know how craft constructs works and what sort of prices it is hence I hacent made the comparison.

Trying to build a character with the following concepts:
Uses guns/xbows, high level casting for Animate Objects, preferably is a Spellslinger/gun related, uses a few rounds to do his set up.
His set up would be him having siege weaponry on floating disks that take minimal effort to fire, casting animate objects on siege enegines on floating disks/surroundings or a bunch of floating ones.

It is not for a PC but building it as it were, for levels 8-15 or so. I have this image of a guy sailing on a small craft or being marooned, then being taken on board by a larger vessel or approached, and at that point shows his hand, a floatingdiskloads of loaded guns and cannons floating in front of their faces..."I'll be comandeering this ship", basically a character that takes over ships alone.

What I have so far:
- Spell Slinger or Siege Mage for casting + flavour
- Casting Animate object on guns. Not on the wizard spell list. Ideas?
- Floating disks to carry Balistae/Cannon, some threads around about this.
- How to load/fire the guns/siege? Do I need Abundant Ammunition, does Animate Object fire but not reload? Then Reloading Hands is necessary? This would be a hell of a setup.
- Loading guns/siege with blast shot/grape for wiping entire decks out.
- Use of Tiny Hut to conceal his apparel and use offensively in battle.

I could use a bit of help with ideas of how to put this together, I am not great with gunslinger nor siege stuff.

Blindmage wrote:

Primalist Wizard - because it's the closest we'll get to a Wild Mage.

Wild Rager Barbarian - can you tell I love randomness?

Check out the Harrowing archetypes then, thenSczarni Swindler rogue and the inquisitor archetype.

Right, I get what you mean. However, quite sure that sentence is still missing something and as read it means theopposite. /latenightgrammarderails

Shame because it would be good to use it with monk weapons at least. BBT does have the most straight forward suggestion in Far Strike Monk.

blackbloodtroll wrote:
Pummeling Style is not only exclusive to unarmed strikes, there is a FAQ, just to remind people of that.

Here it says only Unarmed. What faq am I missing? Itd make me very happy.

3 people marked this as a favorite.

I read leotards....meow indeed.

Mr. Jerk does make a lot of guest appearances in this thread.

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