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So does the "no bonus attacks" mean that a natural weapon character (claws) does NOT strike any of these foes TWICE? One claw attack per foe, correct?
Yes one attack per enemy strictly.
Thanks for the answers again. I imagine swift actions lie either before or after the WWAttack action too.
About bonus or extra attacks, found a 2010 necro'd in 2012 that says "Bonus" should be "Bonus Attacks" due to avoiding old d&d exploit rulings.
Edit: Thanks for the swift reply! They are very explicit mentioning "foes you threaten" etc that when I read something like this it makes me wonder.
I have some questions on Whirlwind Attack, as I find the wording confusing. I am GMing a group and this will come up soon.
Whirlwind Attack (Combat)
You can strike out at every foe within reach.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Int 13, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: When you use the full-attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your highest base attack bonus against each opponent within reach. You must make a separate attack roll against each opponent.
When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities.
Reach vs Threatened:
Forfeit any bonus or extra attacks:
Any help, I cant find anything in the forums, very underused feat.
Playing a combat cleric a little different:
Add buffs (Divine Power, Bless Ferovr, Magic Wep, greater), perhaps reach, kirin strike, monk level (flurry) if you want more attacks.
Did you ever get further?
I had a frontliner bard and main damage dealer of our campaign for a bit.
While your stats are not good for this (Cha), check this:
Otherwise have a look at the Combat patrol feat line. Perhaps the Overrun and improved overrun to get to enemies fast if your group is that mobile.
Thanks for the ideas! Well clerics are versatile by nature. The ones i see do mot eapexialise much.
The HangOver cleric is also a fantastic cleric that plays alittle different.
Ps I meant Divine STRATEGIST in my previous post. Also the Feather subdomain thouhh fur is good if you have free actions.
I would like to see a Magus style cleric, but very limited to a couple spells or doing witha shield (ala skirnir). Think there is an archetype somewhere but it isnt a main bool.
I am also looking for fun clerics. This is a cleric that I have not se en played often:
Divine Tactician archetype. Lvl 8 int to hit on AoO/flanks, plus amazing initiative.
This gives a first action cleric that can move into position and gain amazing flank bonuses (int +2 flank + 2 outflank + 2 menacing. Crank int up a bit and you have +10-12 easy).
Yeah I do love the concept (I go with Mobility, Spell Dance, etc to get the flavour going. Also Arcana that adds Int to hit is great in the magus build.) but with some explanation it goes. If you see this going on for the first time youd just think it too complicated.
For all the skeptics about Action Management: Combat Style Master. Your styles do not take swifts anymore!
I play something similar with Panther, Snake and combine it with Monk (MOMS2/flowing monk) and Magus(SpellDancer/kensai). Add Rime Spell to Frostbite and you do what you are saying + Fatigued + Entangled + Denied dex to AC. It works well but..can be a lot of rolls and tracking per turn.
If you add another step (swashbuckler parry) you might provoke AoOs from more dangerous foes, your friends at your table, cause man does it get micromanagement like.
Good luck though :)
Combat Style Master helps a lot. If you do go this route, you need to be dedicated however.
I made this build to shoot once during combat and buff/position with the rest of the actions. Can work with any ranged weapon, though I built it to be used with a crossbow (repeating heavy if possible).
Alchemist X/Barb 2/Wizard 1
Combine Spring Attack with Snake Style. Now they are both down to Standard Actions since the spring attack forces the other to move, but as he receives a blow (oberyn) he can use Snake Style to negate it.
So crank that Sense Motive. I think it fits well.
edit: and as bignorsewolf suggests, put in Combat Reflexes.
Simon Legrande wrote:
Can't understand the point of the last one. Also not sure why these classes in particular..rogue fighter oracle. Can see the first one though, sounds fun.
The flavour for the above character was a bounty hunter, a specialist. Having Bane arrows/bolts for every enemy kind (since he shoots so few times, it's worth it), knowing all weaknesses, being a tactical genious and using a lot of potions/consumables.
ps: gravity bow forgot about that
and the damage calc: crossbow, buffed with gravity bow 2d8, GM rules that furious finish works for weapon+vitalstrike, not any other dmg
24(4d8maxvitalstrike)+2d8(namedbulledcrit)+8(namedbulletCL)+ 20(5intx4,kirin/bomb)+3d6 (bomb) + 1(pbs) + 6(deadly) + 2 (weapon probably)
One Shot, One Kill. Vital Strike, Kirin Strike and others
For reference: Bloodtroll's One Bit Hit build thread, thanks for that lovely thing :)
Other build paths:
Oradin, a new look with Combat Patrol
This is a build I used expanding on the Oracle/Paladin thing. He was the representation of defense and protection of life for his order, so this is how I went about building him:
2 levels Paladin, then up to 4 Paladin,
What this does:
Combine with Sudden Charge: As an inmediate action you can rush to your allies, making sure that Dragon's Breath, Fireball or whatever only does 1/2 damage to them.
Combine with Combat Patrol & Enlarge it creates a large area where everyone provokes.
Enlightened Magus Monk, attacks of opportunity please
This is something that you may have seen around, but the combination of the archetypes/classes is what is fun:
2 levels Master of Many Styles
AC: Dodge 1, Mobility 4, Wisdom, Dexterity, Int(if kensai/duelist), spell dance 2+, whatever buffs you have on (mage armour hour/level!), shield etc.
As the combat proceeds, you buff yourself more with each Standard action. If they stop attacking you when you provoke, full round them with frostbite, or True Strike/Spellcombat a Manouver.
To Duelist or Not to Duelist
Heya, I love unique-quirky builds! As some of the players say at my table "one day, you'll play a standard sword and board".
Intelligence cleric, never miss:
8 levels - Divine Strategist Cleric, Animal domain, Feather Subdomain
1 to x levels - Witch
This means that at level 9, you have double your Int to hit, you do your int in damage + double int once (kirin swift), your flank bonus is +4, lots of inniative.
Just a way to use the Divine Strategist which doesnt see much play
edit: actually prehensile hair is 1-1/2 damage if its the only weapon you use.
Heya, go for a one-shot ranged character.
Hints: Named Bullet, Arrow Eruption, True Strike, Gravity Bow.
As stated, Arcane Tricksters are hard stuff to build. My favourite take on it is a melee Arcane Trickster though.
Slower spell casting, however with a whip you can stay at range and deliver full round attacks. Ninja gives you an extra attack as a swift action (colliding with some magus arcanas, but still) and Magus allows you do do SpellCombat, which is yet another attack. Can also turn invisible as a swift action.
Not the most efficient but an interesting character to play with, having to watch out for positioning yet with some strong defensive options (Mirror image/invisibility as swift/decent AC-shield-int-dex-armour) and a mix of everything. Oh and sneak attack cause that's what we're here for.
How about this:
Phalanx Soldier(until you get the 2h in 1h)/Sacred Shield Paladin.
This gives you a lot of fun things to do, playing with reach and being by your allies to minimise the damage around them.
Went with Combat Patrol chain and the sort, a good battlefield controler.
Hey, I played one similarly. I went Oracle of BattleX/Paladin Sacred Shield 4/Polearm Fighter 3.
Anyway, I suggest Sacred Shield archetype as a Paladin :)
Kensai Magus might be a good dip for you. As a rogue, it gives you access to a lot of rather useful spells (to use as wands/scrolls).
Gives you access to True Strike which is what you want for a sure Trip.
This is a recopilation that everyone can use but will likely appeal to a specialised few. I would like your help with it though!
The reason for this guide is that I was trying to put together a character concept revolving around sniping with a crossbow. Almost futile. Threads like "One Big Hit build" and many others dealing with Vital Strike, Cleave and such have been the kindling for this.
Now, I have only a few suggestions and since Pathfinder is vast, perhaps we can all put down what we know. Eventually we can wrap this up in a google doc or with pretty colours :)
Team Up: Aid Another as a Move Action
Class Abilities or "dips"
Ranger(Freeboter): lvl1 – Freebooter’s Bane as a move +1 attack/damage to allies within 30ft against a foe, +1 per 4 levels(replaces Favoured Enemy)
STANDARD ACTIONS or "what's the point of this"
Adding to the recopilation, what to have in mind:
Class abilities preferably must come early, for dips, however it would be good to have a list of all "as a move action" abilities that classes get for possible combinations.
To give an idea of how playstyle may change:
Thrills the Standard Action Switch Hitter:
I decided to build a Switch Hitter specialised in killing with one crossbow bolt, that could grab his meele weapon and still do well.
For this I turned to Heavy Crossbows(large), Vital Strike, Alchemist, Barbarian and Consumables.
Accelerated Drinker Trait.
This guy walks with iron vials in his hand ready to drink. Gravity Bow/Lead Blades/etc. Helps that the Gm allows the D&D masterwork Potion Belt.
1-4 levels in Alchemist.
This gives Bombs (2d6+Int). 2nd level extracts for Alchemical Allocation. Conductive Weapon allows you to use Bombs with a shot for 2 charges. Alchemical Allocation allows him to drink potions of Greater Invis/Named Bullet/Whatever up to level 3 without spending them.
1-2 levels in Barbarian.
This gives Furious Finish to maximise damage from Vital Strike ending your rage. You need a BAB of 6 though.
Kirin Strike. Using this Style Feat he'll add even more Intelligence damage to that single shot/hit. (Kirin+Targeted Admixture+Bombs = 4x Int damage)
Vital Strike feat chain and Impact Weapon/Gravity Bow/Lead Blades. See the Vital Strike threads out there.
He's a bit more complex with extra multiclassing but this is the bare version:
Feel free to give your character examples that use Standard Actions (but in Spoilers please)
Ah that's why you were making such a fuss about the Klar being sub optimal in another thread :) What other weapon are you using?
As always the "Finale" spells are maginificent. Also simple buffing in first round, Song+Quickened Spell+Spell, is going to make you/your party great.
If you're melee, Mirror Image, Displacement, are great. I do a fair bit of tanking with my arcane duelist (we're a party of 3/4 bab, I use crane style and fighting defensively). Cant help you with high level stuff though.
You're going to get an army suggesting that someone play a bard, so I'll be their vanguard.
Put a bard in there. Bards can come in many flavours too. The bigger the party is, the more awesome a bard is.
Sohei Monks can flurry with some weapon groups, and do not need to dip fighter because they gain weapon training.
"At 6th level, a sohei gains weapon training in one of the following weapon groups, as the fighter class feature: bows, crossbows, monk weapons, polearms, spears, or thrown weapons. He may select an additional group of weapons for every six levels after 6th, to a maximum of three at 18th level. A sohei may use flurry of blows and ki strike with any weapon in which he has weapon training. "
Azaelas Fayth wrote:
That's why I mentioned you'd do it to get a firearm :) and to get a cheap Ghost Touch firearm. The Crossbow thing is a choice for flavour.
I remember seeing something, perhaps a barbarian arch that allowed to throw 2 handed weapons at BAB...cant find it now.
Azaelas Fayth wrote:
Thank you for the clarification! I havent played him yet, just building him. It's..complicated, trying to make Crossbows AND vital strike an efficient choice. What exactly doesnt combine of the school and archetype?
I really like this. I have been trying to make a character work with a crossbow. It's a headache. You can do MUCH better with a firearm or crossbow.
With this change it makes Vital Strike a real possibility with crossbows.
Firearm: same damage, higher multiplier, can reload as move (with feat/thing) no matter the type if 2 hander.
Building a switch hitter you can also use Vital Strike. In this case "Impact" weapon property would help.
I'll elaborate on what I'm building. He's a switchhitter/potion user with a repeating crossbow and a lot of Int.
Accelerated Drinker trait (guy carries iron vials in his hand so as a move you can chug Gravity Bow/targetted admixture/whatever you need).
You can make it more impressive by one level Wizard Spellslinger to get a good nice firearm and the Prescience school.
To drink potions as a move action instead of a Standard (which lets you combine it with things like Vital Strike and other Standard action of other classes such as Alchemist Explosive Missile, Arcane Archer Imbue Arrow, Cleave, Spells..):
Drunken Rager Barbarian 1: lets you drink as move