Ernest Mueller's page

Well, I'm starting a Brand New campaign tonight! It's Golden Suns of Kor Kammor, a gestalt Pathfinder game allowing nearly all official Pathfinder material (there are, like, two feats and three spells I've outlawed until they get errata, and there is no way to detect alignment -- even smiting won't do it, since hp are abstract you can't tell IC if you "did more damage" because you smote evil, or because you crit, or because the bad guy only had 5 hp left), all Super Genius Games material, and a lot of Rite Publishing and Jon Brazer Enterprises material (and more potentially allowed with a GM review).

I hope to run it once a month. (Our gaming schedule is SO stuffed!)

At the end of the last campaign, Silken Sails of Kor Kammor, the heroes managed to reform the Aldean Church, and help the Messaih Reborn ascend to godhood. As a result the world is entering a new Golden Age, as mighty heroes are born who can face off against the vast evils that have taken over much of the known world in the previous ages. All PCs are in their late teens or early twenties, and have been identified as "reborn saints" granted special powers by the new Aldean god (hence the gestalt classes) and in most cases trained in Nuevo Akkador, the City of Heroes (and seat of the newly-restored Aldean Church).

Characters start at 3rd level, and background histories must include 2 noteworthy adventures the character has been on. The characters are:

Kinsen Jelt (Male NG human seer oracle of life/celestial sorcerer) Descended from the sister of the Messiah reborn, Kinsen (Kin's Son) is a scion of divinity, through whom magic flows life blood. As a boy Kinsen foresaw an invasion of his homeland by the Gnargir (flind/gnoll empire with half-demons and godlings common), and his divinely-inspired guidance was instrumental in its defense (resulting in him being taken to the front lines despite his youth). Then he insisted on aiding the enslaved orc shock-troops his people captured during the fighting settle as a (relatively) peaceful folk (though most hire out as mercenaries), resulting in a vast political power he has no interest in exercising.

Brand (Male LG half-orc paladin/inquisitor) One of the previously enslaved shock troopers Kinsen helped re-settle. Brand had no name as a slave, then on day threw himself in front of a scorching ray meant to slay Kinsen. The fire branded with the Holy Tree of the Aldean Church (an acknowledge miracle), and he became a paladin/inquisitor. Originally an orc, he is a half orc because the miracle was caused by a hound archon having itself bound to the orc in order to help guard Kinsen. Brand was taken to Akkador a few years ago for training, where he rooted out several bad elements by the simple expedient of allowing himself to be captured by bigots, tortured, and then rescued.

Hundred-Handed Lui ("loo-oi")(Male LN summer elf magus/monk) Reincarnated champion of the far east, Lui underwent the Gauntlet of a Century of Blows, a training exercise designed to identify reincarnated :Great heroes," and on his sea voyage to Nuevo Akkador helped defend the ship against the Bloodwind Pirates.

Mira Fatesdottir (Female CG dwarf clever godling/summoner) Literally a god born in a mortal body so she can experience mortal life before becoming the dwarven Goddess of Crafts. Her eidolon is The Breaker, an earth element assigned by her pantheon to keep her alive, because if she dies as a mortal, she will never achieve godhood. Mira fought off a pack of wererats as an infant, and then was captured by slavers working for Kaug Blackspear, an evil god also born into mortal form as a result of his immortal form behind killed. However she masterminded a slave revolt (and managed to badly wound Kaug Blackspear, who fled), then marching the survivors to Akkador as the nearest safe city. Though not Aldean herself, she respects the newly-reformed church.

Nenevieve Ravenswing (Female N aellar witch/shadow assassin) Nenevieve is the reincarnation of Dyrienne the Night Queen, a fallen saint who was responsible for the original downfall of the Aldean church. The Messaih reborn is giving her one more life to redeem herself, before she is cast into the Outer Darkness, home of the Elder Gods, forever. She and a number of other girls of her village were nearly killed by a hag who wished to drink their blood to gain power. Then she was captured by Kaug Blackspear who wished to turn her to evil, and instead she was rescued and befriended by Mira Fatesdottir.

Dellen Whitesmith (Female NG human fighter/armiger) Dellen is a smith's apprentice (a whitesmith works in mithral and adamantine, having it as a family name is a note of coming from a long line of master smiths) who thought she was 6 foot 4 inches and able to bench press a horse as a teen because her parents where both big northerners. She refuses to believe she is a "reborn saint" because she (unlike every other character) can't cast spells. She fought off a goblin attack on her father's forge as a child, and ended up being one of the guards of the caravan that brought her to Akkador after a few guards were killed in a Gnargir (flind/gnoll) attack. Fights with a longspear and tower shield (with spear brace armiger talent). She has trained to be in the Ivory Guard, so she can protect the "real" saints reborn, which is the only reason she agrees to go along with the group on its first adventure (to protect them).

Grun Ironhoof (male LE taurian Rog-Kalem/gunslinger) Grun was raised in Lybrittia, a patriarchal, misogynistic minotaur island culture, and was hired out to the Bloodsail Pirates as muscle. When an Aldean Wave Cathderal defeated the ship and captured him, he eventually agreed to give his parole so he would have more freedom to move about. The Aldeans have identified him as a reborn saint, and sentenced him to seven years service to the church, which Grun accepted. He was then sent on an expedition to fight Lybrittian slavers and explicitly given a chance to escape, to see if he could be trusted. Grun takes his seven year sentence seriously, and thus fought his kin with horn and musket as best he was able. It's already been established than Grun and Mira don't get along, but that's largely been chalked up to their racial and cultural differences so far (and actually Mira is more often the one to start trouble).

As far as the players know, their characters are to accompany the elderly Mother Wykka on a short trip up-river to the edge of the Dengdel forrest. There, every year for the past thirty years, Mother Wikka has taken the tribute of the Khek, a powerful tribe of lizardmen who were unwilling to convert to Aldeanism, but were willing to ally themselves to the secular power the Aldean Church represents. In return, Wykka gives them potions and salves for healing, disease removal, and good crops (worth exactly the amount of the tribute to be collected).

It's supposed to be a milk run...

I like what I read except the player loot issue, which I dislike to the extreme.

I'm firmly in your camp Balodek.

I can understand the urge to increase the consequences of death...

I cannot understand it. I have heard every argument in favor of it and the value of it is completely lost on me. I guess I just value my toon's quality of life more than some arbitrary ideal of "consequence" in a video game.

Death is its own consequence. You die, you know you made a mistake, your time and money is wasted, and that is enough consequence. You won't be running headlong into that same scenario again.

Here is the compromise I would accept:

You die. Someone loots your corpse, receiving a random selection of its inventory. The rest stays there until you retrieve it.

What is the purpose of destroying it? To add insult to injury? The reasoning is unfathomable to me. You already died and learned your "lesson." You already got penalized with the loss of time, money, and property, and someone (perhaps whoever killed you) got a reward. What is the point of more penalty?

Before i get into this, i want to say that the group of players are all cool with one another, there are no hurt feelings and no one is upset or "wrong" for their actions in or out of character, we are all adults and are all happy to be playing pathfinder together. This is 99% in game, in character strife that is being discussed, and don't want anyone to be put down or told they are jerks etc for any in character decisions they made. At least one other person whom i play with visits these boards, and if he reads this, i think it would be pretty cool to have him tell his characters side of the story too.

Also, this takes place in an AP i won't mention, so I will be attempting to give away as little info as possible, some things may not come across quite right, but it is because i am making everything into vanilla yogurt so it won't spoil anything. On to it.

Background:
My character is a lvl 4 gnome life oracle with the deaf curse. He has been a blast to play, and i am very pleased with him. I built him from the ground up as a protector of friends and innocents, and made him CG. The whole time i have been playing him i feel as if i have harped about his protective side, and how he will often go out of his way to put himself in danger if he feels it will help others... he takes extra time to bury bodies when he feels it is right to do, and does everything he can (make the dm come up with non-lethal coup de gras rules on the spot!) to not kill unless he feels threatened, or feels others are being threatened. He definitely ~does~ kill, he has actually been pretty darn good at it, so don't get the wrong idea, he is not some pansy who always whines when something dies... anyways... this leads us to ~~

Situation:
We have been fighting through an area where everything is hostile... not a single creature has been even slightly willing to negotiate. Suddenly, a winged creature (WNPC) appears and gives the "don't kill me i just want to talk" sign. Others don't want to talk, but my character approaches, and WNPC asks for help. I say to the group we should do it, but another PC wants nothing to do with WNPC, and thinks WNPC is going to try and kill us ("nothing in this area hadn't up to this point", he says), lets call him Bob. We go along with it because it leads us to another NPC whom we would very much like to put down. Fast forward to the fight, we have killed the 2nd NPC, but during the fight, there was some confusion and WNPC fired upon a PC (rogue) who popped out of combat and approached WNPC mid fight (the fight was occurring a distance from WNPC). The Winged NPC went back and forth from doing nothing but moving 5-10 ft(very confusing), and firing at this PC who immediately began to attack it (as an aside, the rogue had also said ~OOC~ that he was "going to come back and kill this *****" the round he moved towards WNPC, which was the round before WNPC first fired at him, but it shouldn't... persay... matter because it was OOC, and it is still unclear if he would have actually done anything). When the 2nd NPC fell, Bob joined the frey as well as a barbarian on our side and went to town on WNPC, with WNPC firing back at Bob, or once again moving slightly without doing anything else. I motioned for WNPC to give up (threw hands in air in WNPC's direction and pleaded) but WNPC did not... so WNPC was cut down... here comes the issue.

WPNC fell to the ground, obviously down for the count (below 0 for sure, not sure if - con). Myself, and the ranger who did not participate in WNPCs demise b/c we both thought there was a misunderstanding ran to WNPC and attempted to stabilize. When this happened, Bob attempted to coup de gras WNPC while the ranger and i were over WNPCs body. I tried to stop him, rules did not allow, and there was much discussion over how to handle it. In the end, the DM did not allow a coup de gras, but did allow a normal attack, saying there wasn't a way for me to get in the way of the blow (which i stated i wanted to do if he was to swing), which was tantamount to a coup de gras at this point anyways, an effective 100% chance of death (could have rolled a 1)....

My character was shocked. As a protector, and having taken on that role for WNPC, he was devastated that he could not protect WNPC from his own party members, people whom he had previously, even in this current encounter, done so much for (healed Bob and the rogue for ... 40+? hps, much through life link, taking the gnome down to 20% health at one point), and whom he had trusted to have his back. He attempted in vain to hold her wounds together, even though she was certainly dead. After the party pretty much immediately stripped WNPC of items, my oracle dropped most of his worldly possessions, picked up WNPCs body, and walked away. The ranger protested to the rest of the party, but due to his "if it's alive i care, dead i don't" general attitude, he quickly abandoned such and went on with the rest of the group.

Spoilering the rest as they are my characters possible decisions, and if a group member does read this post, they can skip this part.

Please, what do you guys think my character should do? It is a character decision, i know, there is no right or wrong answers, but would love some feedback. Thanks!

If 5th ed is compatible with Pathfinder, I think this will be good for both. If all of Pathfinders bestiaries and adventures are suddenly usable with 5th ed? Huge extra content for people who start with that set, and thus extra sales. For D&D? Fans who might actually buy their books.

It all depends on various variables, the main one being whether the OGL is reintroduced, but I think it will be good for the industry and gaming as a whole.

It's not that difficult to create a computer game where you have classes and races and feats and skills much like what's in the Pathfinder RPG, net not have it shackled to d20 mechanics and the current skill point resources and the way that feats work.

If you're playing a fighter in the computer game, as long as you get a lot of free combat options that other classes have to pay for, it still feels like a PF fighter.

If you're playing a barbarian, if you have a rage mechanic where you get stronger, and have special powers when raging, it still feels like a PF barbarian. [Edit: I had originally said "fighter" here, too. :p]

If "power attack" is a stance a character can take to deal extra damage with less accuracy, it still feels like PF power attack.

If rogues still deal extra damage when flanking or against unaware opponents, and have tricks they can do relating to roguish things, it still feels like a PF rogue.

If your ability to climb, jump, tumble, notice, and know things can improve as your character gets more powerful, it still feels like a PF character.

And so on.

But the game engine doesn't have to be rolling d20s. It doesn't have to be based on 20 character levels, it may not give you feats at every odd character level, and you may not have the same number of skill points per "level" that you do as defined in the Core Rulebook. What's going on under the hood may be an internal combustion engine, but you don't need to know if it's gasoline, diesel, or ethanol, as long as it makes your car stop, go, and maneuver in a way that's familiar and fun.

So you want to play Pathfinder RPG

A comprehensive guide for Dungeon Masters and Players.

---

First off, welcome on the Pathfinder RPG community !

This guide is intended to help Dungeon Masters ("DM") and Players alike to understand how to make sure everyone is having fun around the table, a task well-suited to a roleplaying tabletop game.

Maybe your DM sent you a link to this guide.
This is a good indication that you currently have a comprehensive DM who wants you to have fun in his coming game, and is wanting to take his time to build adventures which will give you a good time.

This DM is thinking about you, player. He wants you to have fun, and wants you to know it. He also wants to make sure everyone understands how to behave in this collaborative, social game. By showing you this thread, he wants you to understand what are it's duties, it's rights, and what are yours.
While he plays any and every foe you will meet in the adventure, and while your life always depends on his will ; he is also the one who makes sure you will want to play again next time with a smile on your face, and to talk again about your upcoming adventures in the years to come.

Or, maybe you are a DM having difficulties to deal with your role, and are searching for answers or advices to make the game more fun for everyone - you included.

In any case, this guide will provide you with important rules of conduct when it comes to play roleplaying games that one normally acquires through experience - and most often, BAD experiences. Please read it carefully.

"Brain-in-a-Jar" Maxximilius

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Table of content :

1. Pathfinder : a collaborative game
- The Most Important Rule
- The 5 Pathfinder Rules

2. FAQ
a. Do you have advices for a new DM ?
b. My DM isn't letting me play X/do X !
c. How to deal with difficult players ?
d. How to deal with difficult DMs ?

---

1. Pathfinder : a collaborative game

Pathfinder RPG, before anything else, is a game. Simple and stupid.
A game is something people do to have fun. The only way to play this game wrong is by not having fun, not because the rules aren't followed exactly as written.

It is thus important to emphasize this statement : the DM and the players are playing with each other.
The DM isn't here to kick player's asses. He's here to challenge them with deadly situations, and provide them with fun and memorable adventures. But with great responsability come great powers, and, as written on the Core Rulebook :

The Most Important Rule

The rules in this book are here to help you breathe life into your characters and the world they explore. While they are designed to make your game easy and exciting, you might find that some of them do not suit the style of play that your gaming group enjoys. Remember that these rules are yours. You can change them to fit your needs. Most Game Masters have a number of “house rules” that they use in their games. The Game Master and players should always discuss any rules changes to make sure that everyone understands how the game will be played. Although the Game Master is the final arbiter of the rules, the Pathfinder RPG is a shared experience, and all of the players should contribute their thoughts when the rules are in doubt.

Read it.

Pathfinder's N°1 Rule :
Dungeon Masters have all authority on their game, and are the final deciders on any topic ever brought on the table.

Players, DMs, there is no "in our group, the DM must" ; "explain yourself or I don't accept it" ; or "but you are doing it wrong, you are DOING IT WRONG AND SEE I SAY IT LOUDER SO I'M RIGHT OK" argument to have. If the DM says "no", it's f#%*ing "NO". Stop b~#*+ing around. Don't be a spoiled, immature, stupid, childish and ridiculous brat peeing himself. The DM is god at his table, he is using his time to provide you with a game, and this means you have to follow his rules, deal with it. BUT, thankfully for everyone, you can...

Pathfinder's N°2 Rule :
Talk to each other.

One of the most ignored, and simplest solution for DMs and players when it comes to arguments, is to talk to each other. DMs, players, do it before playing. Do it during the game. Do it between sessions. DMs, check if your players are having fun, ask them what you could make better. If you aren't having fun, explain them why and ask for change.
Players, talk to your DM about what you would like to see happen in the game, what kind of dilemmas you would like for your characters to deal with, what could be fun to happen to a fellow player as to encourage roleplay drama, talk to him about what you don't like and could be changed.
While the DM is God in his game, he is also a human being.
He is here for you to have fun. You are here to have fun.

=> Talk. To. Each. Other.

Pathfinder's N°3 Rule :
There is no fun if someone in the group isn't having fun.

DM, you are not a writer working on a novel. The players are individuals, and have characters with free will. While banning some classes for roleplay and setting reasons can make an universe more interesting, saying to a player what he HAS to play, or suggesting him in a forceful way is a no-no. It's up to you to make the sessions challenging whatever the group's composition, not to the players to absolutely "have a cleric" or "play a rogue". Railroading the adventure is also a big no. Do concessions, and if your player wants to do something strange, make sure it would work and the player is able to use this opportunity.
Players, don't optimize so much your characters that they are overshadowing the group. You wouldn't want to be the Robin of their Batmans, don't make them suffer the situation. Play what you want to play, in the limits defined by the DM. Don't be a jerk by playing voluntarily an antagonist to another player's character (like a Chaotic Evil necromancer with a paladin), it never ends well, except if you talk to each other beforehand to make it work in a fun and mature way during the adventure.

Pathfinder's N°4 Rule :
Roleplay. Lots of it.

DMs, use your player's characters to create interesting and stimulating situations. A player's NPC brother is a roleplay goldmine, and you will make sure that everyone around the table is interested and implicated in the story.
Players, always explain your characters, how they became what they are. Provide a minimum informations to the DM so he may create a story just for you. Don't scuttle the roleplay occasions just for the fun of it, you will lose at this game, your adversary (which it shouldn't be) is God. Play your character as he is on the sheet, have the character on the sheet be what you play.

Pathfinder's N°5 Rule :
You love it, or you leave it.

DM, your players are bullying you ? They take your advices or fiats for s!$&, play non-legal characters, refuse your limitations, argue the N°1 rule, then have the nerve to use the Rules As Written (but badly read) as an argument afterhand ? They argue during hours your decisions despite your will to be open-minded ? They physically assault a fellow player or yourself ? They are overly lacking respect to you, your neighboors ?
Players, your DM is the insufferable jerk who railroads the story, makes rocks fall, cheats rolls when it makes him "win", follows the rules only when it arranges him, and seems like he is in a power trip with his Alpha Male position of all-powerfulness ?

Call the police if necessary, say goodbye, take your pack, and leave.

This is a GAME.
When you don't have fun with a game, you just leave it and do something better. Remember this. Pathfinder is no exception. There are a lots of nice groups out there or even the Play By Post, don't stick with the stinky group when it comes to RPGs ; especially when they are your friends and your experience could ruin this relationship.

2. FAQ

a. Do you have advices for a new GM ?

Well, as a rule of thumbs :

- Stick with the least amount of rules possible. Even try grabbing the Pathfinder Beginner Box, to enter into the system with a convivial and simple version of the rules !
- If you play in a new group, try being a player during several sessions before being a DM, so you know better what style of game and characters the group likes.
- The DM must always warn players of the rules he wants or doesn't want to use in his game before the game begins, including any houserules. Suddenly changing the rules during the course of the game is both bad form and bad DMing, and should be avoided.
- Your should ALWAYS have your players's character sheet accessible both in paper, and numerical form to check on when needed.
- Don't hesitate to search on the Paizo Messageboards if you need an advice, if you have a rules question, or if something looks fishy and overly powerful in a player's build - like someone double-wielding bows with a four-armed race from an obscure supplement in alpha playtest you don't have access to ; a druid/monk flurrying with natural attacks plus unarmed strikes plus a lot of damage bonus ; or a sorcerer/monk/arcane archer casting several spells per round.* Paizo Messageboards are like Skynet, if Skynet was made of rules-lawyer whose favorite hobby was to play with a complicated RPG with each potential loophole acknowledged and toyed with.
- Do concessions for everyone's fun. But accept no lack of respect, nor argumentation over your decisions.
- You have to know the rules you use ; or to have someone around the table you trust and who knows the right rule at the right time (often called a "rules lawyer"). If during the course of the game a rules argument appears, use the short rule provided in the Core Rulebook : a +2 or -2 to a roll usually is enough. Your duty is to check on the rule for the next time this situation occurs ; your player's duty is to keep the game rolling, not to interrupt it and begin an endless argument about it. YOU are the rulebook once the game begins.
- The Pathfinder Game Mastery Guide provides a lot of deeper advices about how to run a campaign. Grab it when possible on Paizo Store or your local dealer.
- Send this thread to your players. ;)

b. My DM isn't letting me play X/do X !

- Anything you want to play is subject to DM fiat and approval, including AFTER inclusion in the game. If the DM says no to your character or is using a houserule, refer to Pathfinder's N°1 Rule.
- If the DM banned a rule/supplement/class/concept/spell, DON'T argue.
- If you really want to use this rule/whatever, ask him why he banned it.
- If you REALLY want to use this rule/whatever, propose to play with the banned rule, with the condition that your character may be retired at any time if he breaks the balance of the game and makes the game less fun for others. You are signing a social contract of "not being a dick", and it is better for everyone's fun if you don't abuse it.

c. How to deal with difficult players ?

So your players are the kind to argue a lot. Like, all the time, while not being the cleanest when it comes to see how they built their character by forgetting some "details". Despite you applying all this guide's advices so everyone can enjoy the game, they don't even apply the N°4 rule. Or they don't listen to you, or make the rules pass before anything else - including your parole. Maybe they made a list about what the DM can or cannot do. Well, they are f%#*ing wrong, as the Most Important, the N°1 and the N°3 rules already explained.

Use °2. Discuss with them. Make them understand you don't have fun, and would like more respect for the work you originally provide so everyone can have fun around the table with a good ambiance. You're their friend in this game, not their enemy, and this implies that everyone knows it's place.

If this simple thing doesn't work after one or more sessions, use rule °5 as soon as possible.
Some people are just stupid and you will change nothing to this fact. You just have to leave and find better players. Dump them, walk without looking at the explosion. Don't give them a childish "rocks fall, everyone dies", you'll feel much better once you're out and ready to play again with better people.

d. How to deal with difficult DMs ?

So your DM is sometimes dickish, or really doing a lot of things that annoy players around the table. Changing rules on the fly, playing an overshadowing DMPC, trying to kill the PCs as his principal objective before "putting a good experience and adventure for everyone". You wish things would change. You don't have fun because another player is way more powerful, or because the DM seems to hate your character so much that there are only barbarians to fight with your rogue, or antipaladins attacking your paladin by surprise.
Try rule N°2. Explain your problems in private, your current griefs, and what you suggest so everyone can have a better experience during the game. You could even send him this thread as a friendly advice. You just want to have fun, like everyone else, without impairing your fellow players's.

If this doesn't work after some more sessions, use rule N°5. Simple. You don't have to play when you don't have fun.

(*These are real-life examples of players stupidity and munchkinism, not exagerations to make a point. I let you think about them.)

In essence, calling simulated sexuality sillier than simulated slaughter bespeaks more of the speaker than the subject if their suspension of disbelief will allow them to imagine impaling a dragon on their long hard phallic weapon, but sticking their imaginary phallus into a nymph is more than their creativity can handle.

Quote of the month

This is very exciting news, and we're thrilled to finally get to share it with you! We plan to monitor this thread throughout the day and the coming weeks, so let us know what you think!

I'd say it's a variety of things:

1) New Options - From feats to spells to archetypes to prestige classes. The crunch that immediately causes a player to say, "Oooh, I want to run a character who can do that...or be that." It still needs to be flavorful material, though, and relevant to the topic at hand. This stuff needs to bring that corner of Golarion or that particular species, faith, or organization to life for the players. That's what immediately inspires them, because it gets their character-creation juices flowing. Consequently, this also works for the GMs as it gives them new material to incorporate into NPCs.

2) Roleplay Inspiration - This is where you could probably benefit from some in-character examples of what it's like to be a certain type of character as presented within each topic explored by a Player's Companion. Show, don't tell. Give an example with in-character dialogue, a sample NPC who might serve as a mentor for a PC during their early adventuring career, and...generally...just demonstrate what that archetype, prestige class, race, faith, etc. would be like from a flavor-filled roleplay perspective. It gives both players and GMs something to hang their hat on when they're gathered at the table as they try to properly portray some concept they have in mind. Or, better yet, it helps inspire them to better understand what it means to play a particular concept altogether.

3) A Picture's Worth A Thousand Words - Quite honestly, there's a significant number of players who immediately get drawn in by superior art. The kind that gives them a blood-pumping action scene or demonstration of the power a certain type of character, race, faith, etc. can wield in a specific region or place set in Golarion. You fill a Player's Companion with the best possible depictions of what the words themselves inspire and you'll hook (and engage) the players that much more.

4) Innovate - Introduce new ways of looking at things. Turn some concept on its ear. Shake up the players so they realize how cool it might be to play something a little out of the norm (like tieflings, aasimar, orcs, or goblins). Not crazy out of the norm. But cool. Maybe its a non-traditional race? Maybe it's a new use for a skill, feat, or combat maneuver? Maybe it's a new prestige class or archetype to give them a whole new imagining for a core or base class? This is where you make the series worth the price of admission. It needs to add value beyond what you'd simply get from the CRB or APG by putting things together for the players or going beyond the concepts those books introduced.

5) Widen the In-World Information - This is true for both the GM- and player-centric sourcebooks. Rather than just repeat information (some of which will certainly be necessary to bring both GM and player up to speed on the topic at hand), try your best to make sure there's something new revealed about the region of Golarion, race, organization, or faith you're describing in each of the books. Obviously, the player's book shouldn't include anything spoiler-ific. But, it can still include some new perspective that might not show up in the GM-only book. Maybe it's just an idea or a hint. For every door you close by answering a question about your world, open two more for the readers to ponder and take in whatever direction they want.

If you ring these five things as hard as you can in every sourcebook, and you'll create a winning product time and again (provided, of course, the subject matter itself is of interest to a significant enough part of the consumer base).

My nickel's worth,
--Neil

Things I'd like to see more of (or at all);

1) There was a weird little 3.0 product that I don't remember the name of, that included flavor examples for what members of various races would look like as members of various classes, including flavor ideas for a dwarven wizard or a halfling monk or a half-orc paladin, as those ideas were pretty new to a predominately 1st/2nd edition playerbase, with it's race/class restrictions.

That's the sort of thing I'd like to see more of in Companion lines, examples of how things that might not be immediately intuitive would fit into Golarion. Everybody knows what a halfling rogue or dwarven fighter would look like (thanks Mr. Tolkien!), but a halfling paladin or dwarven wizard isn't nearly as 'obvious.' Less flavor geared towards making the same sort of character that everyone's been making for twenty odd years, and more flavor geared towards integrating the 'any race can be any class' change from 3.0 into the setting, by introducing concepts like guilds of dwarven rune-wizards, or spear-dancing elven barbarians, or a 'sundered chain' order of former slave half-orc monks, who use their broken slave-chains as weapons, could make these less intuitive combinations sing.

2) More descriptions of heraldry, clothing styles, architectural styles, armor preferences, common foods and trade goods, etc. for regions or cultures detailed. Not just flavor, but the sort of flavor that's going to be relevant when I'm describing a group of Shoanti raiders and don't want to say 'They're Shoanti raiders,' or describing the contents of a plundered Varisian trading caravan and my brain locks up and I say, 'Uh, they were carrying turnips.' because I have no idea what crops are grown in Varisia.

3) More mechanical bits that are also flavorful. Traits are great for this, but feats and spells also can ooze regional or cultural flavor, if designed well. I'm not convinced that new weapons (such as those in Gnomes of Golarion) have been so successful, although I would love for a book on somewhere like Qadira or Osirion to detail what armors are like there. Do they wear the same heavy armors as everyone else? If they do not, do they have some regional alternate class ability to off-set their lack of heavy armor with a dodge bonus while unencumbered?

This last thing, IMO, is something that should have been addressed a long time ago, when Osirion and Qadira were being pushed as part of the 'big 5' nations for inclusion in the Pathfinder Society Organized Play, because, for the most part, any sort of factional flavor is utterly abandoned in favor of everybody just wearing whatever armor is mechanically best, regardless of whether they came from a desert or not.

4) The Companion line is the perfect place to include Golarion specific rules items that would normally go in some sort of 'Golarion Campaign Setting' or 'Players Guide to Golarion,' like 'all clerics in Golarion must have a diety.' Ten billion electrons wasted on threads about this topic, and half of the hair on James Jacob's head, could have been saved if it was just printed in a book somewhere, that players could read. I'm sure it's not the only thing in the Core Rulebook that might not apply 100% the same in Golarion, as well, and a Players Companion would be the best place for this sort of info.

I also read these threads with Shock & Awe. Shock that Pathfinder in such a short space of time has become as broken as any d20 previous, and Awe that so many people pat Paizo on the back for doing exactly what many dreaded would happen once the 'splat books' started coming out after the excellent Core Rule book. Still by the 7th or 8th printings of each book perhaps sanity will return to the game.

I love Paizo for their creativity (meaning Adventure Paths & Settings), but PLEASE step away from the Rules now before completely and irreversibly damaging your wonderful game. I know things are getting bad when I find myself thinking - 3.5e wasn't that bad on reflection...

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I know the writers love their NPC's, but why are they so special that certain rules do not work against them. If the NPC's can get skill immunity, why not PC's?

To play Devil's Advocate, I'd hate to mention it but players do have skill immunity. Sure, you can give a player the shaken condition with Intimidate, but as GM I'll never force a PC to surrender or to tell me exactly what the NPC wants to know, even if my NPC just beat a DC 40 on his Intimidate skill.

"Sorry guys, you break down, surrender and tell Rimetusk all about your mission. The troll just beat DC 40 on his Intimidate check. Everyone hand in your sheets."

The same goes for Diplomacy. Just because an NPC has a +50 Diplomacy, no GM has ever forced a PC to:
1) Provide a service for less or take a lesser cut of the loot.
2) Force a PC to stop interrogating the NPC for information, because he's just too damn nice.
3) Stop an attack. "No, you can't attack him, you like him far too much"
4) Sell a magic item for less money than normal

Players would go CRAZY.

So my point is, "Players are already immune to many skill checks".

Here the population of every region of Golarion (Taken only from the notable settlements has seen in the Inner Sea World Guide):

Absalom : 320 450
Andoran : 190 453
Belken : 50550
Brevoy : 90298
Cheliax : 367 515
Darkland : 234 533
Druma : 44250
Five Kings : 88 861
Galt : 88 999
Geb : 170 780
Irrisen : 56 490
Isger : 23 427
Jalmeray : 25 380
Katapesh : 239 294
Kyonin : 74 310
Lastwall : 25 515
Land L.K. : 131 090
Mammoth L. : 23 600
Mana Wastes : 65 800
Mediogalti : 20 920
Mendev : 116 660
Molthune : 65 740
Mwangi : 112 201
Nex : 93 610
Nidal : 57 082
Nirmathas : 23 392
Numeria : 111 448
Osirion : 258 239
Qadira : 268 780
Rahadoum : 124 090
Razmiran : 28 250
River Kind. : 107 600
Sargava : 26 020
Shackles : 88 720
Sodden Lands: 3 640
Steaming Sea: 8 420
Taldor : 228 455
Thuvia : 106 620
Ustalav : 75 979
Varisia : 91 189
Worldwound : None
Total : 4 328 650
With the 1:9 ratio : 8 224 435

The throwing axe, especially if it is based off of the Francesca Axe.

The kukri, seriously. Read up on the Ghurka's and why the British said screw it we'll make you part of the British army rather than keep loosing men.

But TBH, I would rather use a lot smaller vareity of damage and threat so that the weapon was more about what flavor/ image you wanted. The way WHFRP 1ed which honestly is the opposite direction of what you are looking at.

I think the min issue with blasting is that spells haven't really changed all that much over the past editions of D&D: A fireball does 10d6 damage today, same as it did 20 years ago. But average HP has increased a fair bit, which means that spells that deal direct damage have a harder time keeping up, compared to more control-focused spells.

I think you just hit the nail on the head. Back when you stopped getting hit die at tenth level, gods were only a 9th through 13th level challenge, and ancient red dragons had 88 hp, doing 1d6 damage per level was pretty sweat.

I'll admit it. When I DM I sling more fudge than a girl scout troop during cookie season. I'll straight up fudge rolls when dramatically appropriate then turn right around and play theater then take what I rolled. Rule of Fun, play the room.

Hands down my favorite trick is when an encounter is going a little too well, making the NPC's attack roll with x4 Crit Multiplier Weapon of Doom. Then I look at the dice for a second, slowly look up at the vic's...I mean player's...face, look back down and roll again. Wait a second, then exhale meaningfully and roll damage. NPC didn't threaten a crit in the first place, it was pure theater to build tension. Alternatively, if an NPC has a x2 weapon make a "confirmation" check then roll damage and be vague about whether I confirmed and rolled low, or didn't confirm and just rolled average to well (either way, there's a brief cathartic moment as the player thinks s/he dodged a bullet).

NPC casts a fireball. Player fails his Reflex save. I roll the damage dice, look over and ask, "uh how many HP do you have again?". I get my response, then just announce the damage I actually rolled.

Another good trick is to roll the actual damage dice in one color and add a bunch of BS dice of other colors just to get the "how many F'ing dice did he just roll?!?!??" response, although that falls less into the "fudge" category and more into the "asinine yet hilarious practical joke" category.

The Random Number God is not favoring me tonight and the PC's are looking a little bored, so the NPC's get a surreptitious "crap, the encounter's becoming a wash, better raise the stakes a little" bonus here and there. The RNG isn't in the players' favor, I'll toss a little surreptitious "PC's need a break" penalty once in a while. Somebody's flubbing left and right and getting frustrated, I'll take an opportunity to give them a brief respite from their own bad luck. The trick there is to keep GM footprint as light as possible and don't break suspension of disbelief.

Though I do have some base rules. I never fudge without reason. I only fudge when Dramatically Appropriate. I never fudge big. Most of all, I never fudge on anything that could result in a character death or TPK. Bottom line is if you're going to fudge, be at least as unpredictable about it as the dice would otherwise be. GM'ing is 95% presentation and theater, 5% middling crap like rules and dice rolls, and in total 100% making sure the players are having a good time; if you're an entertaining and even-handed GM who can strike that delicate balance between dramatic tension and suspension of disbelief, you can fudge every single roll you make during a session and the players will eat it up.

This is a rant thread. If you can't stand a rant, then move on.

I know you've heard this one, "He doesn't optimize, he's a roleplayer"

There is also the reverse, "He doesn't role play, he's an optimizer."

Now we can probably agree that "Roleplaying" has a few different definitions. For example, if you play Pathfinder, then you are playing a roleplaying game, and are a role player by definition.

That's not the definition I think those who use the above statements are referring to though.

Role Playing would also be what you do with your character. Developing a personality for your character, a set of values, speech patterns, facial ticks, etc. This is likely the definition they are referring to.

There seems to be some kind of weird view that this is somehow no longer meaningful if your character is effective. I mean it's pretty obvious right? Look to fantasy literature, how many interesting character are also good at anything? Oh right...most of them.

Relating how well you roleplay a character with how well you optimize a character makes no more sense to me than comparing how well you optimize your character with how full is your mustache.

"He doesn't optimize, he's got a mustache"

Can anyone explain to me how this would be less relevant than comparing "Role playing" to optimization?

Blame White Wolf.

Once upon a time, they said words to the effect of "choose your name, then choose your concepts, then choose everything else, and try to have everything else fit the concept."

I think a lot of us had already intuited this, but they said it early and well, formalising the concept first view of roleplaying.

For a concept first roleplayer, optimisation is a useful but distant tool. It is a way of making a concept work well, not the starting point from which to build the character. It is the way decide between two equally appropriate choices, not a way of selecting options from the raw list.

Optimisation can damage a persons ability to play in this style. If your desire to be 'effective' runs stronger than your desire to play to concept, you end up with character that don't fit the concept they set out to begin with. If your desire runs strong, but not as strong as your desire to play to concept, it tends to end up limiting your choice of concepts.

Neither of these things is a good thing as far as roleplaying goes, at least to the "concept first mind set." It leads to situations like "Magnus Vaska, 12th arch mages of vann, living god", and the fish hook street boys heroing together, and the fish hook street boys getting royally narked that their carefully crafted and observed characters, which fit the adventures power level and setting, are getting completely sideline by a god wizard, who for some reason is hanging around with their gang of misfits.

Their role is to be fun to play and to have high adventure! I don't understand why this is difficult.

I was thinking about something.

There's been a lot of nerdrage over UM (mostly) and UC (less, but still). Much of that was envitable (OMG GUNS BROKE MY FANTASY DIE PAIZO), but I'm wondering, could that be somewhat avoided?

A thought struck me. Paizo splatbooks have a *lot* of authors. Far more than equivalent WotC books. APG lists 13 authors, UM 10, UC 14.

I believe this approach comes from desire to lift some work from the dedicated full-time Paizo designers (all 2 of them) and also to "give that guy a shot at writing a splatbook", as evidenced by RPG Superstars.

Now it sounds great on paper, but what does it lead to? I see several problems emerging here.

1. COHERENCY AND QUALITY

This problem has two aspects. One is the situation where designer A writes X which refernces Y, while in the end Y gets cut from the book (spellbooks in UM and Tetori in UC are great examples).

Another aspect is uneven quality of design. While this is normal for splatbooks, I believe that multiauthor approach magnifies the problem. You get feats/spells/archetypes of very varied quality

Third aspect, repetitions. There are harmless ones (same name used in two different products, eg. the dueling magic weapon quality) and dangerous ones (two feats do the same thing).

2. FEEDBACK

UM and UC were both subject to a massive bout of nerdrage, 1-star never buy again reviews, OMG you killed D&D yadda yadda. In some cases, designers were at hand to answer questions and clarify things (Jason Nelson in particular is known to be at hand to help).

But in many cases, answers about rules remain unanswered. Perhaps this is due to the original author not willing to provide comments, while other designers not being sure of his design intent?

3. INTERNAL AWARENESS

Lately I've encountered two situations that baffled me. One was SKR errating brass knuckles in Adventurer's Armory while simultaneously the APG printing of same item didn't get changed. It almost felt if like SKR and Jason have two different views on how one item should work like, something that's surprising to say at least.

Another situation was where James Jacobs was at one time surprised about how Inquisitions from UM work vis a vis Golarion deities, while on the other out stating that he didn't read UC yet. I understand that Jason is a writer and a "fluff" person, but perhaps the scattered approach to writing rules makes it harder for other folks on the team to familiarize themselves with the new rules?

To sum it up - I like both new books (UM less, UC more), but I believe that the shotgun design approach might be showing it's negatives. I understand that Paizo is a small company and it's entire life cycle is dictated by GenCon and Christmas season, but perhaps there are ways to improve the situation? What do you folks think?

I guess my intuition is different from the rest of the world's. Nonetheless, every time the Pathfinder organisation comes up it reminds me that I'm reading about a campaign setting designed for a game, rather than reading about a fantasy world, which is what I get from most Pathfinder supplements.

I struggle to accept the notion of world-spanning organisations in a balkanised fantasy environment at any level but can hand-wave it in the interests of manageability and campaign world cohesion. (The Red Mantis is another 'unrealistic' organisation in my mind - I find them thematically consistent though so can just gloss over the fact that they exist with such seemingly far-reaching power and influence).

The Pathfinder organisation seems contradictory to me - if it had 'noble purpose' or was devoted to some God of knowledge/lore/whatever then the whole thing would make more sense to me. As it is, it feels to me like it's trying to fill just a tad too many roles within the campaign world.

the prison comment was a joke about the fact in prison if you say "somebody is breaking the rules" you get a brutal stabbing.

I was just hoping, for your sake, it never happens.

i believe the term is "snitches get stitches"...

just sayin

I think the original article is a flavorful take on mere mortals not knowing everything about the gods.

So, you're a LG Chelaxian raised in the Church of Asmodeus, maybe you dumped Int since you want to bump up Cha and Str as a paladin. You are kind of a heretic in that you think all these LE people running around are "crazy" for being so mean to the Father of Contracts, Elder God of Cheliax, Lawful Ruler and all around great guy (you were raised to believe) Asmodeus. Asmodeus in the meantime says, cool, what great LE can I bring about via this LG vessel?

It's gearing up for a fall or a deity change as the campaign progresses and the higher level paladin finds out more about the "true" church and the "true" nature of his chosen god.

But really, the big thing is that mortals shouldn't know all the ins and outs of the gods (unless they have high Kn: Religion and Kn: Planes maybe) - myths and lies and propaganda abound in a pantheistic society. Just because you the player read it in a book doesn't mean the character should know the same.

YMMV.

Quite a few gamers I know are concerned that "book bloat" is rapidly setting in. Two hardcovers a year was the sweet spot it seems. This gives everyone enough chance to digest the new goodies. Within what seems to be about a 15 month span we're looking at 5 hardcovers released: Bestiary 2, APG, Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Combat and Bestiary 3.

I'm hoping that pace drastically slows down. Affording that many primary PFRPG books plus the AP subscription is too much. The additional spells, feats, classes, archetypes, racial options and so on have to be "processed" for lack of a better word. They need to work themselves into the Adventure Paths so both GMs and players can see them in action.

The APs are "behind" the new rules books excepting the Bestiaries (the only rule books that they are decidedly 'in front of') by anywhere from six months to a year or more. Maybe this will have changed with Jade Regent, we won't know for a bit.

- Group-based play breaks down. Will save DCs that are auto-pass for the Wizard and auto-fail for the Fighter. ACs are auto-hit for the Paladin and auto-miss for the Rogue. (Not counting nat 1s & 20s)

- For the GM, creating opponents takes too long. As a GM, it's really not worth my time to stat up an 18th level Fighter, pick all his feats, and learn all his tactics... so that I can use him in one encounter.

- Time at the table suffers. Someone has over 8 attacks, with some things doubling on crit and others not, adding up all the circumstantial modifiers, etc. It just takes for-flipping-ever. You can say "be prepared" but that one guy, he never will.

- The difference between "well-built" and "minmaxed to hell" grows. I'm not even talking about sub-par builds. I'm talking about the difference between a "softcore manmaxer" and a "hardcore minmaxer" - at low level, they have similar power. At high level, their power has significantly diverged. Then the arms race happens.

- Too many spells. Spells deal more damage than swords (esp when you throw in auto-kills). If the Wizard can do that only a handful of times a day, and the Fighter is the "steady damage dealer", then that's a cool differentiation. But once the Wizard has over 30-some spells per day (and enough wealth for wands&scrolls besides) then he can cast his uber-spells every round. Then the Fighter wonders why he tries.

- Too many weird rules. What happens why you're in the bottom of a Shadow Conjured Create Pit, and then you put up an Anti-Magic Field on yourself, but the range doesn't reach the lip? Here the forums, we can figure it out. In the middle of an initiative round? Kills the momentum.

- Impossible to write classic stories. Travelogue? Nope, got a Teleport spell. Save the King? Why bother, we'll just Raise him. Sure, you can come up with special rules and explanations as to why you can't do these things, but at that point, you've bent the world so much toward the Tippyverse, that it no longer resembles the classic fantasy world of Tolkien and King Arthur (or whomever) that you're trying to replicate.

And many, many more. There's just no point. I've run 4th level adventures where the PCs have traveled to Mt Celestia and slain the celestial that gaurds the enterance to the 7th Heaven. Just scale the numbers down, but keep the fluff epic. You don't need your sheet to say "level 35" in order to do Mythic Things (tm).

Jiggy: Anyone offended by Seoni's dress or Alhandra's outfit should probably steer clear of beaches, swimming pools, the Internet, formal ballrooms, James Bond movies, beauty pageants, the magazine covers in the check-out aisle as the super market, prime-time television...

You want the advice forum.

Edit: OK, I guess I could be a little more specific. If you want to discuss "how to make a build moar awesome", post to the advice forum. If you want to suggest an awesome build, post it to the advice forum. If you want to ask "why does this thing suck because I hate it so much", post it to your blog.