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Endoralis's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 525 posts (10,079 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 15 Pathfinder Society characters. 28 aliases.


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Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Ravingdork wrote:
Anzyr wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:

.

I love that Paizo avoifds "must have" feats. I personally hate thinking "WHELP MAKING A ROGUE, NEED THAT TWIST AWAY". I would like to have options.

*cough*Spell Perfection*cough*
If they EVER touch Spell Perfection, I'm throwing in the towel and leaving Paizo forever. No joke.

Would be the first time they really revisit a caster option.. I would think you would be conflicted that they weren't just boning martials

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. 2 people marked this as a favorite.
Kudaku wrote:
Endoralis wrote:
Note there is a HUGE problem in the feat... One handed weapons dont use Dex to hit. And that it exists in its current form.
True, but swashbucklers can get dex to hit with one-handed piercing weapons. Since Slashing Grace lets you treat a longsword as a one-handed piercing weapon, you'd get dex to hit and damage when wielding a longsword.

So what I'm hearing is this is piazo's way of increasing pro-multiclassing views, they force you to have to take a level of Swashbuckler.. to do anything.

And even then you cant do it with more than one hand... And lord help you if you use your other hand to buckleswashes or.. pull out a potion.

Silver Crusade

Note there is a HUGE problem in the feat... One handed weapons dont use Dex to hit. And that it exists in its current form.

Silver Crusade

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Nefreet wrote:

I imagine the time it took to release this errata was utilized as an informal second playtest of the material from the ACG.

I know in my local PFS scene many, many characters were created with a one level Swashbuckler dip, and the amount of Dex-to-damage builds increased practically exponentially.

Those builds, comments, and questions made their way here to the forums where the Design Team was able to see the impact of what they had wrought.

Just like the original Warpriest playtest goes to show, when the majority of players quickly choose one option over others, it's a pretty good sign that option is out of balance with the rest.

Or that the other options were s#$!

Silver Crusade

LazarX wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:
bookrat wrote:

Out of curiosity - why waste a spell to CDG an enemy when you could just do it yourself what that handy scythe or pick of yours?

I suppose if you're in a situation where you can't get to that enemy in time, but that's kind of rare for level 1 scenarios.

Edit: with four wizards, you could also do this in tandem. Wizard 1 casts sleep, while wizard 2 casts summon monster. By the time summon monster casting is complete, wizard 2 will know which enemies fell asleep so he can summon his little critter right next to it for a CDG. Definitely makes the summon more valuable than a single attack that may do just a tiny bit of damage (or miss altogether!).

i did say in the other thread (or maybe i thought about saying it), but all the wizards should have scythes, but really it's a ranged coup de grace
Sure... what's a minus 4 to hit for a slow BAB class?

>implying CdG doesnt autocrit

>>implying they cant be prof with it with a Trait.

Silver Crusade

Charon's Little Helper wrote:
claudekennilol wrote:


So does anyone have any advice on what to do with this idea now that sacred fists can't wear armor?

Be a Sohei?

More seriously - just change to a dex build then use Crusader's Flurry and the new Slashing Grace with a kukri. It'll take longer to get up and running, but it'll actually end up with much higher defenses.

Edit: And if you still want to dip out of Sacred Fist at 2nd level - Swash would be an excellent choice. It's now the only way to get parry/riposte - not to mention grabbing Weapon Finesse.

As to stats - try -

Str 10
Dex 19 (17 + 2)
Con 14
Int 7
Wis 16
Cha 7

New Slashing Grace doesnt work.

Silver Crusade

4 people marked this as a favorite.
TOZ wrote:
Man, so this is what it's like when Blizzard releases a WoW patch.

They even buffed Mages... just like a blizzard patch.. how odd.

Silver Crusade

So what Im hearing is that going another element became mandatory for getting any sort of resistance/ability similar to the element types. Or that they dont have an equivalent.

Silver Crusade

What does the Telekinticist get instead? As I dont think thy have an element?

Silver Crusade

PIXIE DUST wrote:

NOR CAN A MYSTIC BOLT NE MADE WITH SPECIAL WEAPON PROPERTIES

Bane is a special weapon property.

Not happening...

The best you can maybe hope for is a Skald or Bard giving you buffs via perform (skald mix woth spirit totem wpuld hve interesting maybe)

See the issue there is that it doesnt apply to effects on the Mystic Bolt. They are saying you cannot enchant it with spells and it cant be enhanced like a weapon with money. Whatever you apply to it MUST be something that applies regardless of if it were a Mystic Bolt or not.

If what you said was true.. Arcane Striker wouldnt work.. because GUESS WHAT THAT DOES?

Silver Crusade

Still havent gotten an answer to how Mobile Blast functions, my Aetherkineticist (Telekineticist) will be turning level 4 soonish in an AP and it seemed like a good option by the name.

Silver Crusade

Right I didn't say you were wrong. I was emphasizing the fact that damage could easily but upped with classes outside of the main class.. which is bad. Sure they wouldnt bypass immunity but the damage would actually be viable or deal SOME damage at comparable levels to full Warlock.

If you were saying those other classes didnt help much I believe another poster basically showed with difference in damage is quite high with the others.. I simply didnt want to reiterate the fact things like Greater Bane and Divine Power were the solutions.. it didn't justify Mystic Bolts being so bad.

Silver Crusade

Thrawn007 wrote:

I think the based on what we've heard, our best bet right now is not to build warlocks and complain about Mystic bolt. We need to try and break mystic bolt to the extreme.

With that in mind, I've set up a test for some PC's against The Ripper, a BBEG Warlock4/Vivisectionist6 (I might bump him to 7 for a 10 CR to take on Level 7 PC's.)

I'm going to run the fight two ways.
1) Warlock4/Vivisectionist6
Will see if by getting the drop on the PC's using darkvision/darkness, 3d6 sneak damage on rapid shot/TWF mystic acid bolts tear up a party before the warlock dies.

2) Vivisectionist10
See if level 3 and 4 extracts along with 2d6 extra sneak damage have more impact than the mystic bolts.

I think that for the warlock getting playtest data of the strongest we can make mystic bolts will be more valuable than reiterating the same thing that's been said for over a week.

That's nice. You are implying I don't or haven't already done it. I have used Mystic bolts with conductive weapons. My arguments arent the same thing over ad over and your playtest will be skewed because the obvious solution IS to go into a different class.. with defeats the purpose. My build so far has mirrored the above.. its a slightly better Flaming. And that was Before the nerf.

Silver Crusade

graystone wrote:
Endoralis wrote:

Int mod isnt good enough because it wont compare to half or the +level it was before and unlike weapons doesn't have a way to get past Resistance OR immunity.

It also would require an obscene Int to be useful when you already need Dex to fulfill your feat prereqs.

We don't need this to be another Fist of the Avenger, which btw is terrible.

Int to damage could be part of the solution. Say they get to reduce resistances by thier level and add int to damage. Add some riders on the damage and a scaling bonus to it and I think it wouldn't be bad. Maybe not a damage king but deals ok damage along with status effects could be an interesting niche for it to fill.

Part of the Solution yes but a bandaid at most. Getting past immunity will be the biggest part. If they had something along the lines of the Winter Witch's ability to bypass Cold immunity it would help.

And like I said that necessitates High Int High Dex which means we will have a similar issue the Playtest Kineticist had where to be viable you had to go a particular specialization (Water), a particular way, with Particular stats (dump STR and CHA) or you had a bad time.

Silver Crusade

The damage would equate to anywhere from 8-11 more damage and have some odd combinations with your Plethora of feats, but I was making a point. I could have been mean and Used Paladin.. or Cavalier.. or Ranger... yadda yadda.

Silver Crusade

Is it possible to get a list of the names of the various Kineticist Blasts? Or Talents?

How does Mobile Blast Function?

Can we get a base idea how the Medium spirits work or what each path empowers (For Example does Champion give the same benefit Strength Spirits did? +Spirit Bonus to Attack and Damage? )

Silver Crusade

graystone wrote:
Kegdrainer wrote:
graystone wrote:
That really wouldn't make a dent. That means that at 15th level, you do a whole 1d6 vs a resistance 5 or 1d6-5 vs resist 10. That's really super, uber bad. At 1d6+level, a 5th you get a straight 1d6 vs resist 5. At least that'd keep you at cantrip damage.
Sorry, I meant rather than 1d6 + 1 every 3 levels, 1d6 + 1d6 every 3 levels.

That would be better but in pathfinder static modifiers tend to be your bread and butter. It wouldn't be much different than adding level on average. It'd be an interesting experiment to try but I think resistance would still prove to be a thorn in it's side. Weapon users damage tends to go up as they level but resistances tend to be more common and have larger totals as you level so at best your damage tends to stagnate or even drop as a bolter levels.

To have a bolter be a truly viable option, there has to be a resistance bypass. Once that's figured out, an appropriate damage progression can then be figured out.

Or to go into another class after 4th level.. that fixes the whole useless thing right away.. even with Fighter..... WITH FIGHTER.

Silver Crusade

Int mod isnt good enough because it wont compare to half or the +level it was before and unlike weapons doesn't have a way to get past Resistance OR immunity.

It also would require an obscene Int to be useful when you already need Dex to fulfill your feat prereqs.

We don't need this to be another Fist of the Avenger, which btw is terrible.

Silver Crusade

Imbicatus wrote:

Bolts don't need full BAB to hit since they are targeting touch. They need more attacks and a way to add static damage.

When you take Bolts, Vigilante Levels should count as Fighter Levels and BAB for the purposes of feats that affect bolts. This would let you add Specilization/Greater Specialization to help with arcane strike. You could also go Disruptive/Spellbreaker or more easily qualify for critical feats.

That is a bad idea for multiple reasons and would already tack on the the copious amount of feats this ONE talent needs to be viable. NO, Mystic bolts should be USABLE on its own with massive feat and talent expenditure and BETTER with it. Much like say, the Longbow.

As it goes now those feat would mean it would have no extra feats from 1-20 and still do a piddling 1d6+14 + Extra's at the end.

Silver Crusade

I think you mean the Archeologist Bard Page. Either or.

Silver Crusade

WHAT!? They Arent the Fun Police?!

Silver Crusade

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

I'm sorry whut?

We should stop measuring the fun we have?

Pixie Dust, you really need to calm down when it comes to this stuff. Fun is a perfectly fine measurement, along with the other measurements.

Your histrionic, repetitious complaints is a big part of why I have started pulling away from this playtest. But trying to invalidate others opinions is a bridge too far.

Be cool, it's a game. Fun is basically the measurement that matters.

He isnt wrong and if you pull away from the playtests because his words seem offensive to you its likely because.. well.. they are true.

Constructive opinions on why you had fun and what have you are fine. They however are not Constructive when your argument is solely based on that against a FACTUAL ISSUE. Similarly with the Monk, Fighter and Rogue. Saying you had fun won't make them less bad nor fix any issues. It won't negate the fact that there is a problem brought up.

Silver Crusade

Thrawn007 wrote:


PS - If a character can use the same tactic 90% of the time, it's a character I don't want to play.

Im pretty sure you just said you don't like playing any class ever. As a large majority of Martials at least tend to fall under that scale. " Put the pointy end in the monster "

Silver Crusade

And I'm pretty sure those Finesse builds were Commoners, because thats what you'd be. You are making excuses. What you describe is more akin to you Being a melee character with no ranged weapon against a Flyer. What the situation is now is that you invested heavily in melee and your attacks are but a wet noodle slapping against its skin. That is a very big problem. A Plan(Insert Letter) Won't matter if your main plan doesnt work 90% of the time. In that case why not just have invested in Plan (Letter) in the first place and be better off?

Silver Crusade

As of Right now, Pretty much any other class can dip 4 levels into Warlock and be BETTER than a Warlock at using Mystic bolts.. INCLUDING a Fighter.. and that is terrible.

Silver Crusade

Too weak is a problem for the game just in the way that too strong is but Too strong can be fixed, Too weak cannot. I did not say the class was worthless but the abilities it has tend to be unless you go one true build. And in that case you pale in comparison to already established classes in your field.

Bolts are NOT an investment of 1 talent, they are an investment of 2 talents you must take, delaying of spellcasting (That is already pretty abysmal), and sveral feats to be SUBPAR.

Firing what is essentially a Sorc Bloodline first level power or a glorified cantrip is not useful when you could fire a bow.. or a gun and be better off. As for the 'just cast a spell' answer. What spells? You will have all of 1 or 2 per slot, a few more later on. What is it to say your spells are even useful?

Silver Crusade

And so far your argument against it has bared any fruit. Checks and balances are just that. If anything your suggestion is 'two wrongs don't make a right' because ignoring the glaring issue without something of this type would mean it is worthless. Worthless things are a waste of print-space. I would rather something stronger and something weaker, because you can tone down but you can NEVER ramp up. Its the same with martials and why the most liked and balanced classes are things like the Inquisitor.

Silver Crusade

Zwordsman wrote:
Endoralis wrote:
Thrawn007 wrote:
I'm against pure energy or force as the starting damage types for this. I like elemental as a starting point. However, as I've said elsewhere I'd like to see chained talents to make a pure build around bolts viable as an alternative.
Why be against pure arcane? Its not force damage, just increase Elemental damage and you'll be fine. Also one element should be free With the Pure Arcane on anyway.

What do you mean by pure arcane? Just "energy damage" thats effectivly force. Nothing has resitsances to "pure arcane"

The damage/element types in the game are currently
Bashing piercing slashing fire acid ice lightning sonic force.
Sorta positive and negative energy as well

Everything but force has specifci resistances (though I can not think of anything with sonic resistance off hand)

So.. just generic energy doesn't fit in that paradign, thats usually represnted by force damage in the past. Just sheer magic power.

Or did you mean mystic bolt basic does B S or P at the choice when used, then you get one element as well? bsp does 1d6 and elemnents do 1d8?

thats not a horrible idea, except that BSP requires enhancment bonuses to get through DR. but I suppose if your smart about it, you can choes BSP or Elements per target and chose the most effective one

No I meant what I said. Force Damage has connotations, and strengths that this does not. For example Force Damage gets past incorporeality, can damage undamagable spells and items those kinds of things. This would just be untyped energy damage. Like the Feat Arcane Blast. It exists in many facets of the game.

Silver Crusade

Thrawn007 wrote:
I'm against pure energy or force as the starting damage types for this. I like elemental as a starting point. However, as I've said elsewhere I'd like to see chained talents to make a pure build around bolts viable as an alternative.

Why be against pure arcane? Its not force damage, just increase Elemental damage and you'll be fine. Also one element should be free With the Pure Arcane on anyway.

Silver Crusade

Trekkie, your build has an issue as there is no Multishot that DOESNT apply to bows.

Silver Crusade

Archangel62 wrote:
Thrawn007 wrote:
If you are worried about immunities, you take a 2nd or third bolt type. Odds are you have something to get through. If we are talking high level, you likely can have multiple bolts AND full spellcasting.
My point was that if you're trying to be bolt focused you're eating spells to amp the bolts at a fairly high rate, not to mention having to take the bolt talent multiple times. My point specifically was that the concern that the damage would be excessively high was alarmist.

It wasnt alarmist it was based on math as being a bit higher. 5d6+5 is Avg 22.5 and then Arcane Striker adds to it. Im not sure about you but Arcane Strike doesnt cost any spells and can crit. Not to mention the way Dice are its too swingy, i rather it consistent. My proposed method keeps it about useful every time.

Silver Crusade

It would be too powerful, A simple 1/2 level with the base being pure magic energy would be fine.

If they make it wear choosing an element makes it equal level or has an additional 1d6 or 2d6 then you will see a plethora of Bolt Warlocks who arent invalidated.

As it is the number is far too low.

Silver Crusade

Or certain classes just bone you, a 10th level Warlock v a 10th level Archer Inquisitor is a sad sad faceroll. AS A CLASS they can simply turn on Fast Healing and Energy Resistence. They dont even need to specifically prepare for the Warlock. Then the Warlock dies the next round. Any humanoid or monster can be an inquisitor.

Silver Crusade

Trekkie90909 wrote:
Ah, true.

Do you now understand the overall issue here? The developers did not acount for the vast change dropping Mystic bolt to the Avenger unarmed Talent. Its actually worse because at LEAST unarmed strikes can be modified by various feats and magic items... Like Power Attack. Mystic bolts basically cannot significantly enough to be worth while.

Silver Crusade

Trekkie90909 wrote:

Well at high enough levels you could have a holy thundering fire mystic bolt from arcane striker which will mitigate the resistance slightly.

It would be good if you could change the element as say a full round action, and then pick up a separate talent to reduce that to a swift if you felt like further specializing. Broad spectrum resistances and immunities are far too prevalent to make the current system viable.

You mean Holy OR Thundering Fire Mystic Bolt. The choices expand.. not stack.

Silver Crusade

Gisher wrote:
Endoralis wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Endoralis wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Deadly Aim doesn't work for touch attacks. But you can get a LOT more hits with it now, and it ignores SR. By my calculations (and as you indicated), with Logan's new changes, average damage from a full attack is going to be much higher than it was.
I play a Warlock on these threads I can tell you it did not up my damage at all. It lowered it. Ignoring SR was a good change that was simply needed. Now if you removed the elemental portion your numbers might be closer to correct.
Didn't the changes just come out two hours ago? You playtested this and ran a statistical comparison with your previous tests already?
Its not that hard to add and subtract the numbers. My particular Warlock lost 5 damage off of every shot. I Have Conductive weapons. One melee One Ranged.
Ok. I was just surprised that you had had time to try out the changes. But I see now that the second playtest came out several hours earlier than I thought it had.

I'm saying the changes are what they are, I didnt have to run a separate scenario to note the differences. I was running this way pretty much already, I TWF with Either Shortsword and Mystic Bolt or Gun and Mystic Bolt. I already had Arcane Strike as an actual feat.

Silver Crusade

Yes they need a talent for it now, which you can pick.

Silver Crusade

Gisher wrote:
Endoralis wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Deadly Aim doesn't work for touch attacks. But you can get a LOT more hits with it now, and it ignores SR. By my calculations (and as you indicated), with Logan's new changes, average damage from a full attack is going to be much higher than it was.
I play a Warlock on these threads I can tell you it did not up my damage at all. It lowered it. Ignoring SR was a good change that was simply needed. Now if you removed the elemental portion your numbers might be closer to correct.
Didn't the changes just come out two hours ago? You playtested this and ran a statistical comparison with your previous tests already?

Its not that hard to add and subtract the numbers. My particular Warlock lost 5 damage off of every shot. I Have Conductive weapons. One melee One Ranged.

Silver Crusade

Imbicatus wrote:


If you pick Acid and Electricity you should be able to bypass almost all resistances as Acid is the least resisted and most things that are resistant aren't to electricity.

Demons, Devils, Outsider kin and many other types would like to speak with you.

Let me put it this way, What advantage does the second interation have over the first that could have ALL of the same feats and have say a gun or Hand Crossbow in the other hand? At level 10 with haste you can do what? 6d6+30 with Mystic Bolts with the 2nd vers.. compared to the First that could have the same featline getting 3d6+30 + Crossbow Bolt of 3d4+12... with a +1 weapon.

Silver Crusade

Mark Seifter wrote:
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
Endoralis wrote:
Tuyena wrote:
Gisher wrote:
I'm a bit surprised by the damage downgrade to Mystic Bolt. But getting to use bolts in both hands is nice.
Arcane Striking with it will pretty much balance it out, combined with TWF it will do solid damage.

That is a lie, it won't balance out because now it has a major weakness that it didnt have before and forces you to pick arcane strike as well as hope you hit those 5 level increments to utilize the buff. You cant deadly aim with it or Power attack, I can only see this argument coming into any sort of comparison at 16th level when Arcane Striker does something. Otherwise it isnt true.

Why couldn't you deadly aim with the new version?

I'm pretty sure you could, as well as Rapid shot, and two weapon fight.

Since it targets touch AC, those penalties aren't really going to reduce your damage anyway.

Deadly Aim doesn't work for touch attacks. But you can get a LOT more hits with it now, and it ignores SR. By my calculations (and as you indicated), with Logan's new changes, average damage from a full attack is going to be much higher than it was.

I play a Warlock on these threads I can tell you it did not up my damage at all. It lowered it. Ignoring SR was a good change that was simply needed. Now if you removed the elemental portion your numbers might be closer to correct.

Silver Crusade

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
Endoralis wrote:
Tuyena wrote:
Gisher wrote:
I'm a bit surprised by the damage downgrade to Mystic Bolt. But getting to use bolts in both hands is nice.
Arcane Striking with it will pretty much balance it out, combined with TWF it will do solid damage.

That is a lie, it won't balance out because now it has a major weakness that it didnt have before and forces you to pick arcane strike as well as hope you hit those 5 level increments to utilize the buff. You cant deadly aim with it or Power attack, I can only see this argument coming into any sort of comparison at 16th level when Arcane Striker does something. Otherwise it isnt true.

Why couldn't you deadly aim with the new version?

I'm pretty sure you could, as well as Rapid shot, and two weapon fight.

Since it targets touch AC, those penalties aren't really going to reduce your damage anyway.

Because it specifically says you cannot affect touch attacks.

You can Do both those things as well but your measly 1d6+5 at 10th level still will take a -4 on top of Cover and whatnot because you had to spend all your feats on just using ranged capability. You underestimate some creatures having Touch and Highly underestimate base 10 resistance.

Silver Crusade

Tuyena wrote:
Gisher wrote:
I'm a bit surprised by the damage downgrade to Mystic Bolt. But getting to use bolts in both hands is nice.
Arcane Striking with it will pretty much balance it out, combined with TWF it will do solid damage.

That is a lie, it won't balance out because now it has a major weakness that it didnt have before and forces you to pick arcane strike as well as hope you hit those 5 level increments to utilize the buff. You cant deadly aim with it or Power attack, I can only see this argument coming into any sort of comparison at 16th level when Arcane Striker does something. Otherwise it isnt true.

Silver Crusade

Hrmmm I did sort of notice a big change in the way Mystic Bolts are. Before at lower levels, say 5. You could do enough without a booster (Assuming nothing like Bard is there) and Do good damage. However if you met a Demon for example there was at least a 1 in 6 chance to hurt it. NOW with the new function instead of making it 1/2 your level they made it 1/4 to damage. It now works with a few more things as well. However that Demon from before that you had a chance to hurt that increased later as you leveled... you have the same chance base to hurt.. at 20th level. That isnt good. The Reason being that now Arcane Strike becomes a Necessary pick to validate Mystic Bolts and even then doesn't fare well against even Resist 10.

Did they take this into account in the playtest or just make a blind guess? Luckily my own Playtest Warlock is not too affected by the change, but it is a noticiable difference. It seems too low.

Silver Crusade

Ah right they don't, I just noticed.. thats concerning somewhat.

Silver Crusade

Also Rage Domain is a thing.

Silver Crusade

Actually thats wrong as you can detect casting with SLA's

Silver Crusade

Well Hrmm.. It actually possible if you can gain a way of getting something along the lines of True Strike.. perhaps Monk Multi-class. It's something I've thought of in my combinations.

Silver Crusade

How am I a troll when I am in this game..
that makes it my business.. you rolled a bunch of dice the picked the last 6. Dont get upset.

Silver Crusade

Those rolls effect your rolls

So it would be

11, 10, 11, 11, 8, 13

Silver Crusade

Fight-er. Rogue. I can tell you an easy EASY way to completely bone them? Disintegrate. They have no con and btw Vampire cant benefit from barbarian rage.

Fighters have Armor Training...

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