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Would be the first time they really revisit a caster option.. I would think you would be conflicted that they weren't just boning martials
So what I'm hearing is this is piazo's way of increasing pro-multiclassing views, they force you to have to take a level of Swashbuckler.. to do anything.
And even then you cant do it with more than one hand... And lord help you if you use your other hand to buckleswashes or.. pull out a potion.
Or that the other options were s#$!
>implying CdG doesnt autocrit>>implying they cant be prof with it with a Trait.
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
New Slashing Grace doesnt work.
PIXIE DUST wrote:
See the issue there is that it doesnt apply to effects on the Mystic Bolt. They are saying you cannot enchant it with spells and it cant be enhanced like a weapon with money. Whatever you apply to it MUST be something that applies regardless of if it were a Mystic Bolt or not.
If what you said was true.. Arcane Striker wouldnt work.. because GUESS WHAT THAT DOES?
Right I didn't say you were wrong. I was emphasizing the fact that damage could easily but upped with classes outside of the main class.. which is bad. Sure they wouldnt bypass immunity but the damage would actually be viable or deal SOME damage at comparable levels to full Warlock.
If you were saying those other classes didnt help much I believe another poster basically showed with difference in damage is quite high with the others.. I simply didnt want to reiterate the fact things like Greater Bane and Divine Power were the solutions.. it didn't justify Mystic Bolts being so bad.
That's nice. You are implying I don't or haven't already done it. I have used Mystic bolts with conductive weapons. My arguments arent the same thing over ad over and your playtest will be skewed because the obvious solution IS to go into a different class.. with defeats the purpose. My build so far has mirrored the above.. its a slightly better Flaming. And that was Before the nerf.
Part of the Solution yes but a bandaid at most. Getting past immunity will be the biggest part. If they had something along the lines of the Winter Witch's ability to bypass Cold immunity it would help.
And like I said that necessitates High Int High Dex which means we will have a similar issue the Playtest Kineticist had where to be viable you had to go a particular specialization (Water), a particular way, with Particular stats (dump STR and CHA) or you had a bad time.
Is it possible to get a list of the names of the various Kineticist Blasts? Or Talents?
How does Mobile Blast Function?
Can we get a base idea how the Medium spirits work or what each path empowers (For Example does Champion give the same benefit Strength Spirits did? +Spirit Bonus to Attack and Damage? )
Or to go into another class after 4th level.. that fixes the whole useless thing right away.. even with Fighter..... WITH FIGHTER.
Int mod isnt good enough because it wont compare to half or the +level it was before and unlike weapons doesn't have a way to get past Resistance OR immunity.
It also would require an obscene Int to be useful when you already need Dex to fulfill your feat prereqs.
We don't need this to be another Fist of the Avenger, which btw is terrible.
That is a bad idea for multiple reasons and would already tack on the the copious amount of feats this ONE talent needs to be viable. NO, Mystic bolts should be USABLE on its own with massive feat and talent expenditure and BETTER with it. Much like say, the Longbow.
As it goes now those feat would mean it would have no extra feats from 1-20 and still do a piddling 1d6+14 + Extra's at the end.
He isnt wrong and if you pull away from the playtests because his words seem offensive to you its likely because.. well.. they are true.
Constructive opinions on why you had fun and what have you are fine. They however are not Constructive when your argument is solely based on that against a FACTUAL ISSUE. Similarly with the Monk, Fighter and Rogue. Saying you had fun won't make them less bad nor fix any issues. It won't negate the fact that there is a problem brought up.
And I'm pretty sure those Finesse builds were Commoners, because thats what you'd be. You are making excuses. What you describe is more akin to you Being a melee character with no ranged weapon against a Flyer. What the situation is now is that you invested heavily in melee and your attacks are but a wet noodle slapping against its skin. That is a very big problem. A Plan(Insert Letter) Won't matter if your main plan doesnt work 90% of the time. In that case why not just have invested in Plan (Letter) in the first place and be better off?
Too weak is a problem for the game just in the way that too strong is but Too strong can be fixed, Too weak cannot. I did not say the class was worthless but the abilities it has tend to be unless you go one true build. And in that case you pale in comparison to already established classes in your field.
Bolts are NOT an investment of 1 talent, they are an investment of 2 talents you must take, delaying of spellcasting (That is already pretty abysmal), and sveral feats to be SUBPAR.
Firing what is essentially a Sorc Bloodline first level power or a glorified cantrip is not useful when you could fire a bow.. or a gun and be better off. As for the 'just cast a spell' answer. What spells? You will have all of 1 or 2 per slot, a few more later on. What is it to say your spells are even useful?
And so far your argument against it has bared any fruit. Checks and balances are just that. If anything your suggestion is 'two wrongs don't make a right' because ignoring the glaring issue without something of this type would mean it is worthless. Worthless things are a waste of print-space. I would rather something stronger and something weaker, because you can tone down but you can NEVER ramp up. Its the same with martials and why the most liked and balanced classes are things like the Inquisitor.
No I meant what I said. Force Damage has connotations, and strengths that this does not. For example Force Damage gets past incorporeality, can damage undamagable spells and items those kinds of things. This would just be untyped energy damage. Like the Feat Arcane Blast. It exists in many facets of the game.
I'm against pure energy or force as the starting damage types for this. I like elemental as a starting point. However, as I've said elsewhere I'd like to see chained talents to make a pure build around bolts viable as an alternative.
Why be against pure arcane? Its not force damage, just increase Elemental damage and you'll be fine. Also one element should be free With the Pure Arcane on anyway.
It wasnt alarmist it was based on math as being a bit higher. 5d6+5 is Avg 22.5 and then Arcane Striker adds to it. Im not sure about you but Arcane Strike doesnt cost any spells and can crit. Not to mention the way Dice are its too swingy, i rather it consistent. My proposed method keeps it about useful every time.
Or certain classes just bone you, a 10th level Warlock v a 10th level Archer Inquisitor is a sad sad faceroll. AS A CLASS they can simply turn on Fast Healing and Energy Resistence. They dont even need to specifically prepare for the Warlock. Then the Warlock dies the next round. Any humanoid or monster can be an inquisitor.
Do you now understand the overall issue here? The developers did not acount for the vast change dropping Mystic bolt to the Avenger unarmed Talent. Its actually worse because at LEAST unarmed strikes can be modified by various feats and magic items... Like Power Attack. Mystic bolts basically cannot significantly enough to be worth while.
You mean Holy OR Thundering Fire Mystic Bolt. The choices expand.. not stack.
I'm saying the changes are what they are, I didnt have to run a separate scenario to note the differences. I was running this way pretty much already, I TWF with Either Shortsword and Mystic Bolt or Gun and Mystic Bolt. I already had Arcane Strike as an actual feat.
Its not that hard to add and subtract the numbers. My particular Warlock lost 5 damage off of every shot. I Have Conductive weapons. One melee One Ranged.
Demons, Devils, Outsider kin and many other types would like to speak with you.
Let me put it this way, What advantage does the second interation have over the first that could have ALL of the same feats and have say a gun or Hand Crossbow in the other hand? At level 10 with haste you can do what? 6d6+30 with Mystic Bolts with the 2nd vers.. compared to the First that could have the same featline getting 3d6+30 + Crossbow Bolt of 3d4+12... with a +1 weapon.
Mark Seifter wrote:
I play a Warlock on these threads I can tell you it did not up my damage at all. It lowered it. Ignoring SR was a good change that was simply needed. Now if you removed the elemental portion your numbers might be closer to correct.
Because it specifically says you cannot affect touch attacks.
You can Do both those things as well but your measly 1d6+5 at 10th level still will take a -4 on top of Cover and whatnot because you had to spend all your feats on just using ranged capability. You underestimate some creatures having Touch and Highly underestimate base 10 resistance.
That is a lie, it won't balance out because now it has a major weakness that it didnt have before and forces you to pick arcane strike as well as hope you hit those 5 level increments to utilize the buff. You cant deadly aim with it or Power attack, I can only see this argument coming into any sort of comparison at 16th level when Arcane Striker does something. Otherwise it isnt true.
Hrmmm I did sort of notice a big change in the way Mystic Bolts are. Before at lower levels, say 5. You could do enough without a booster (Assuming nothing like Bard is there) and Do good damage. However if you met a Demon for example there was at least a 1 in 6 chance to hurt it. NOW with the new function instead of making it 1/2 your level they made it 1/4 to damage. It now works with a few more things as well. However that Demon from before that you had a chance to hurt that increased later as you leveled... you have the same chance base to hurt.. at 20th level. That isnt good. The Reason being that now Arcane Strike becomes a Necessary pick to validate Mystic Bolts and even then doesn't fare well against even Resist 10.
Did they take this into account in the playtest or just make a blind guess? Luckily my own Playtest Warlock is not too affected by the change, but it is a noticiable difference. It seems too low.