Silver Dragon

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Goblin Squad Member. Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber. Organized Play Member. 3,120 posts. No reviews. 29 lists. 1 wishlist. 3 Organized Play characters. 1 alias.


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GM Rednal wrote:

1. Yes.

2. Yes.

Many Spherecasting classes give bonus talents aside from the two basic talents you get for the Casting class feature. For example, the Elementalist gets two free talents and the Destruction sphere, for a total of three talents at first level.

(This does not include any extra talents from your casting tradition, such as those gained by sphere-specific drawbacks, or those from archetypes.)

Thanks GMRednal! You are a scholar and a gentleman.


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Question:

Mental Powers
A symbiat gains the Mind and Telekinesis spheres as bonus magic talents.

1. Is this separate from the standard, "(Note: All casters gain 2 bonus talents and may select a casting tradition the first time they gain the casting class feature.)"?

2. Is this basically saying that they gain access to those two Spheres with no need to spend their talents on the access?

Thanks!


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GM Rednal wrote:

I have. I was once in a game where, because of some especially generous build rules, people were essentially playing different games. One player had been built to such an extreme that anything that slightly threatened them would wipe out everyone else, and there was really no way to run the characters together without it being a one-man show.

Ultimately, each table needs to find what they're comfortable with, and I'm not about to start saying there's only one true way to go. XD People have fun in different ways. But in my experience, it does help if the mechanical basis of things is close enough that people feel like they're playing the same game. In that regard, it helps to at least be familiar with a system before you start customizing it.

@GMRednal Right on the money.

@GMDark I hear what you are saying, but in reality this happens, and often happens because the player (s) is attempting to be a good, fellow player, and just do not "see" what is happening in reality.


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My initial read, I dig it. I’m liking the approach of finding that essence in the class and bringing that to the fore. I also dig the modularity.

I think having unarmored as the base weapon proficiency is a great idea!


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@GM Rednal Thank you for the timely response!

I was beginning to think the same thing, myself. Thanks for the tip on the Reincarnated Master archetype.


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@GMRednal - Yep! Beware!

Question for those more familiar with the system:

I have a player who wants to use the Invidian archetype, but with the Incanter. How would you change Invidian archetype to accommodate this request, or would you simply ban that particular use?

Thanks for any assistance!!


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Captain Morgan wrote:
Yeah, I would dig it if creature tactics became a little more spelled out in the bestiary. Also the results of knowledge checks.

+100 to knowledge checks! The adventures that have included these are EXTREMELY useful. In fact, at times, it may not be that I, as the GM, are asking for those particular checks, but that they just come up organically as part of a the party's investigations. Either way, these are ALWAYS useful.

I do hope we see more of them. In fact, I'd like to see them as a part of the core approach to all different parts of the whole thing (adventures, bestiaries, etc, etc.). Basically, anywhere that you would likely have a PC doing a knowledge check, they should be present.

Please give some love to the harried GM ;)


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James Jacobs wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
Elfteiroh wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:
Aww, but that means I can continue living in vain hope that I will see hardcover version of Second Darkness and Legacy of Fire :'D (I really want to run them for real though)
A fixed Second Darkness would make me very happy, but that one is so unpopular that that chances are way too slim. :(
I don't know if you *can* fix Second Darkness, given the huge disconnect in themes between modules 1-2 and 3-6. I can't see players who made a character for the specific theme of the first two modules being too happy about being thrown into a completely different type of story later on in the AP.
I've been thinking about it for about a decade now and I'm 100% confident I can fix that problem. The question isn't how. The question is when, and so far, the "when" is not now.

Great! I have always felt like SD was a great story with a lot of cool unique elements and it would be a shame not to give it some extra love.


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Looks good - simplified, and more depth. Works for me!


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Looks like a lots of fun offerings! Thank you!


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Awesome! Thank you!


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Ultra cool!


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Welcome aboard!!


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bookrat wrote:
Crayon wrote:
While I'm sure there are as many reasons for groups abandoning APs as there are groups playing the things, I would think that the fact they're supposed to take 2-3 years to complete is probably a much greater contributor to why many people never finish them.

They are? I thought they were supposed to take six months to complete, and my group was just slow.

Release of one book per month seems to suggest they expect people to finish each book in a month (or at least within 4ish session of play).

I'm fine with being wrong on that, it's just the assumption I've always had.

Takes us about 1 year per volume


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Kohl McClash wrote:
how will paizo garner playtest feedback? Forum threads like on the forums here or website surveys with email login or IP address?

This is answered on the playtest info page


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The idea I am getting is that if you know someone has the Telekinesis sphere, do not piss them off if you are on top of building/tower/cliff, or in the mountains. ;)


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Thank you for the reply, GM!


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Thanks for the response, Stack!

A follow-up - Let me be a bit more precise, is there a Basic/Advanced power/talent that allows you to move hostile creatures horizontally?

Let's say the Incanter is 8th lvl, and is focused on the Telekinesis sphere, and the hostile creature is a (medium) werewolf.

So, in other words could you use Hostile Lift, and then Telekinetic Push to move to move the creature 25' up, and 25' east?

I don't see a power/ability that specifically allows for the horizontal move of a hostile creature.


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Hello!

I am familiarly new to SoP. But can an Incanter with the Telekinesis sphere, move a hostile creature horizontally? Thank you!


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Thank you for the update! Looking forward to the updates!


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Awesome Todd! Cannot wait for the book!


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Malk_Content wrote:

For folks worried about needing high level crafters as npcs I don't think we need to worry much. Basic things like arms and armour likely won't have high level requirements, and getting master proficiency at low levels already exists (fighters with weapons for example.)

I can easily see an "expert" npc class that gets master proficiency in one skill by level 4 or 5 that doesn't offer much else and has very low (2?) hp per level.

This is how I am seeing it as well


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@deadmanwalking Thank you for curating!


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Absolutely LOVE the incorporation of downtime in Core!


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Excited!


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Thank you SOO much for another great issue!!! You all never cease to amaze me! Kudos for holding the torch high!


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Tons of interesting stuff. Getting excited for the playtest!

re: encounter
I feel like one big benefit is not being discussed - Ease of use. One less duration to have to keep track of is a boon, in my book.


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Kudos to everyone who could make it! The rest of us are living vicariously


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Fantastic! Thank you sharing your wondrous adventures, again!


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JoelF847 wrote:
Not a fan of removal of ability scores for monsters, and only including their bonuses. Either the ability scores can matter in the game, such as using the Str score to determine carrying capacity, or they have no impact on the game, in which case PCs shouldn't need them anymore either.

So, either you show ability scores, or ability scores don't matter? Hunh? Not sure I get that.

That aside, are you figuring out carrying capacity during combat with an ogre? (I would think this would be fairly rare) But let's say you are, than the Str +5 would translate as either a 20 or a 21 Str and you go from there.

It is a matter of convenience. How often, during combat/encounter, do you need the ability modifier vs. knowing the actual ability score at a quick glance? I know for myself, it is the former the overwhelming majority of the time.

If you are creating a custom ogre character, then you are likely doing that ahead of the session, in which case translating +5 into Str. 20/21 seems doable as part of prep time.

Maybe this is all alluding to using stat blocks in different ways - during the session, and session prep.

Anyway, was just a little baffled at this response. I suppose we'll be able to suss it out in the playtest!


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Ecidon wrote:

Looking at these statblocks, along with the claim that they're "More concise" and "Easier to run", we should look at empirical evidence.

The Ogre: 12 lines, 458 characters.
This compares to the Pathfinder Ogre at 24 lines, 649 characters. Half the lines, maybe 80% of the characters. But wait: it's also omitting titles such as "Offense", "Defense", as well as the XP value (which has probably been removed). It also omits the Ecology section, the Environment section, its Organization, and its treasure. Once we discount them it stands at 15 lines, 446 characters. So it's more text to read.

Let's now look at a "moderately complex" monster, the Redcap:
43 lines (at 80-column width) 2339 characters.

Compared to the Pathfinder Redcap at 47 lines, 2178 characters. And this includes the Ecology, Environment, Organization and Treasure.

In volume alone, I'm not sure how this makes it "simplified" or "easier to read".

It seems like you are looking for evidence that would be of interest to a book publisher or perhaps an editor, when they are considering how many pages are supposed to be in a book for a given print run.

Here are the quotes that you seem to be quoting from (my emphasis):
"Well, we put a lot of thought into making a new monster stat block that would be more concise, while remaining flexible enough that we can still keep a similar level of complexity for some of our most powerful and iconic monsters."

"We think that will make it easier to use at the table, but we'd love to hear your feedback as you run these monsters during the playtest!"

My sense is that the reason for wanting the stat block to be more concise is so that it is easier to use during play.

During play, I am not worried about lines of text, nor pages in a book. What matters is, do I have the info I need for actual play. I am not reading the whole stat block everytime I am rolling its initiative. I am not reading the whole stat block everytime I am rolling a skill. Etc. etc. When I need a particular thing in play, is it where I need it, and have enough (but not too much) that I need for that time in play? That is the type of evidence we need to decide if it is easier in actual play.


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Looks good! I like the focus on the essentials, so that it is easier to handle things quickly.

I also appreciate the monster design philosophy - make the monsters what the should be, to heck with making them ALL conform to a predetermined logic. With that said, I also want rules for simplified monster adjustment and creation ;)


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Generic Villain wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:


Paizo are sympathetic to this position. Several people "reserved" various Inner Sea nations and that has resulted in some much-loved campaign setting books. The downside to that approach though is that some areas have been left to languish. They appreciate that there comes a time when it really needs to happen, even if the original "champion" of a region has moved on or got bogged down in other things.

Erik Mona made a post about that recently (complete with educational acronym).

That's an awesome post, thanks. Good to see that the developers have the common sense to do away with a tradition that really is just stagnating the setting. Seriously, what has happened in Nex in the past decade?

I would MUCH rather have something done with passion, then something done solely to have it done.


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Congrats on the new roles, and for being receptive to the Whispering Golem!


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Great idea!


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Really digging this approach to character creation. I am especially excited about the possibilities for campaign integration.


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Welcome aboard! Great to see new blood for sacrifice, err for great new ideas


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Well said. Keep on truckin’ golem!


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Alceste008 wrote:
Jason Bulmahn wrote:

Hey there all,

We knew the Paladin was going to be a bit contentious. The class has provoked strong emotions and discussion since the earliest days of gaming. In designing this class, we really had two routes we could take. Traditional, but very flavorful, or Reimagined, but ultimately more generic. I chose the former.

I am going to disagree with this decision from a business standpoint. There is a malignant effect created by having this class be the primary defender upon the whole PF 2.0 system. Many people have had bad experiences with self-righteous, demeaning, and / or condescending behavior from Paladin players due to the way the class and code creates entitlement in the “one true path”. Those experiences cannot be changed. These same / more people will have to possibly suffer through this behavior more often due to this class and code being the primary defender. I disagree with making this happen because of class fantasy. Having this behavior occur more often is not how you grow markets but rather shrink them. Also, you typically grow markets by being more inclusive not less.

Please note, I do not care about the name but rather the mechanics around the primary defender in this system. I actually am not a fan of the name. I would suggest the class name being changed to knight \ warpriest \ etc. with Paladin being a special archetype or alternate class.

This has way more to do with players, then any class


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RickDias wrote:
Ryan Freire wrote:
In the face of this i kind of hope you find another game that fits your requirements,

Tempting. I hear WotC apparently wants my money now.

I was hoping the developers at Paizo would be bold enough to try some new design space on opening up this play-style to other alignments. I was hoping feedback over the last few weeks would help them mold the product in that direction.

It did not happen

It did happen. It just wasn’t the direction that your “feedback” suggested. Simple as that.


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Thank for the note taking and sharing!


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So cool! Looking forward to hearing about the new approach!


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Awesome! Loving the depth of options! This was a much needed upgrade of weapons


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Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
The only concern I see is that the PF2 anathema is less permissive than the PF1 **paladin code**.

Sounds like a positive to me!


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This sounds SOOO cool!


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Davor wrote:

It doesn't matter to me how different the systems are. NPCs could be generated with a completely different system, as long as the system is:

1. Simple
2. Fast
3. Full of pre-made options

[...] The premade NPCs book was a blessing for that reason.

This is where I stand. Well said, Davor.


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Great idea!


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DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
Edymnion wrote:

The fact that they already have a print date of only a year from now tells me one thing.

The playtest feedback isn't going to be given much weight. It might revamp a skill or feat, or maybe get a class rewritten, but thats it. It tells me that they are hard set on the system as a whole and will not change it no matter what the feedback says.

If this 3 actions a round thing ends up pissing off exactly 100% of the tester base, a year is not enough to rewrite it (and by extension everything that relies on it, which is pretty much everything) and re-test.

For good or for ill, 90% of what they've got at this point is already locked in stone.

What you’re talking about isn’t playtesting, it’s crowdsourced design. It’s very important to calibrate your expectations that what’s happening is refining and improving the design. Much like the APG playtest there was no changing the name of the Oracle to anything else, even though the oracle had almost no divinatory power. There are likely to be some aspects of the game that have more flexibility than others.

This. More people need to get this. Thank you for saying this clearly dudemeister.

Some folks think they are suddenly being employed as professional designers, you are not. This is a playtest. We have plenty of history with Paizo and playtests, which makes me think we will have a net positive experience.


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Looks interesting. Again I am liking the modularity of the characters within their particular design space. Loving the idea of anathema!


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Evilgm wrote:
MerlinCross wrote:
You have more options. I and others that want to play normal/old Cleric however, have feat taxes. This was how I felt over in Alchemist thread.
It's not a feat tax when you spend a feat to play the style of character you want to play, that's just called choosing a feat. The fact that you want to play the style of a PF1 Cleric doesn't change the fact that you are still choosing a style of play and thus selecting the feats that enable it.

This.

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