Hey so had some questions here. You mentioned class compendium, is there a chance of getting a PDF or hardcopy of more of these classes put together? Maybe you could do some of the rebuilds in like certain collections, like a reprint of all the martial rebuilds, and a rebuild of all the divine ones and such. Also cool thought, what about once you get them all done, you do the Legendary Core Classes book, like a collection of all the Legendary rebuilds for each class?
Some third party options were brought up and discussed before, and were cleared out by the mods.
What was deleted was talk of 1p vs. 3p, as shown in the following post:
Sara Marie wrote:
I removed the 1pp vs 3pp derail. Take it to another thread if you have to have that conversation. Remember, everyone is here because they love something about Pathfinder, and the reasons other people might love or play Pathfinder they way they do can be very different from your own.
Not bringing up 3p at all. This wasn't an attempt to bring that back up, just mentioning that there was something that already existed that met the poster's desired mechanic.
i think a kineticist archetype that has you focus on two elements from level one would be cool but you only get two elements and can't composite blast till level 7
If you're not opposed to 3rd party, N. Jolly already did that in Kineticists of Porphyra 2, it's called the fusion kineticist.
I'm gonna be honest, there's NO reason for this class to exist. This isn't me saying it's because it's a hybrid, or for anything like that, it's because it involves basically no new mechanics. It feels like a straight smashing together of both classes with no finesse, nothing to make it feel unique, nothing that gives any reason to play it. Out of everything here, there might be 3 new mechanics: new spell list, guardian beast eidolon, and the divine eidolon's share mercy.
These three things aren't enough to make this an interesting hybrid, rather than the collection of copy/paste class features that this class possesses. The only real selling point here is the 'any good' which could even be expanded to any good/evil and throw on cruelties as an alternative option, even if that'd just be more copy/paste design.
As far as balance, this is far more powerful than a Paladin due to trading out auras/immunities/bond for an eidolon, which is an absolute combat beast. And presentation wise, the PDF is spartan as all hell, with nothing interesting (not even a cover page), and 90% recycled text from other classes. Even while picking it up, I saw the PDF for the Avowed preview (which was awesome) which looks amazing as far as layout alone in concerned. The only time I've seen playtests this bland were for live playtests, and those were like that for ease of commenting and such.
There's nothing that makes this class unique, nothing that makes it stand out, and balance wise it's suspect, so I guess I'm saying that if you'd like to actually move forward with this, you should consider what actually makes a hybrid unique like with things such as the Kinetic Shinobi, which offered tons of new ways to use kinetic blasts through its shinobi talents or other hybrids which offer a ton of options that their parent classes don't have. As far as this is concerned, this is a turn off for me as a customer and I really hope we get a second preview with more unique mechanics.
Broken Zenith wrote:
What does 'by experience' mean here, and are we to assume that stat blocks are going to be around 150 words? I mean a standard stat block is around 600-700 words, can your classes really condense it down that much? You talk about not needing feats, but that's maybe 40 words at most for a lot of stat blocks.
Hey, had a small question here; in the KS, it mentions that some of the stuff in it is written by N. Jolly, but none of the listed books have him as an author as far as I'm aware (please correct me if I'm wrong). Does this mean he's doing something else in this book? I've just really liked what he's done so far, and I wanted to keep up on it where I could.
Hey, I have one that I'd like to see if you're up for it!
Her name's Tyra, and she's a young brawler girl, let me bullet point her for ya:
Thanks a lot for doing this, let me know if you need any other details.
Generally we don't do third party....but I'll check it out ;)
Totally understandable, I didn't at first either, but it was written by the same person who wrote the guide on the class itself, so I'd like to assume they knew what they were doing :D; here's the link to the archetype section in the guide, they have a review on it too.
If you're allowed to use 3p for this, seriously check out the Dread Soul archetype from Kineticists of Porphyra III; it's literally this concept done right. All their blasts are treated as evil aligned, they can force other creatures to accept burn for them by scarring their souls, and eventually when they kill a creature they can make a soul stone out of it, letting them keep a creature's soul and continue to torment it in place of taking burn. Seriously, it's just a way better version of this archetype.
Mark Seifter wrote:
I agree with N. Jolly that we need more wild talents for existing elements the most, especially wood and void, by an order of magnitude more than the other things. Fortunately, the prospects look quite good for a product soonish that provides this, not to the crazy extent that I would go if unleashed to make a kineticist-only book that wouldn't sell our usual numbers due to the limited audience but would make me happy, but still to an amount where I could actually feel the options opening up while writing them in my gut (I'm weird and sometimes design things cause me to feel things in my gut, like when a rule is super messed up and too strong or doesn't actually work, I get a mild physical pang while reading it, or when it's really opens up new stuff, it feels good).
While I'm happy to hear you'll be working on this, can you PLEASE get N. Jolly to help write some of this? He's kind of redefined the class through 3pp products and a lot of what he's written has been amazing. I don't think I'm alone in believing that he'd be a huge asset in helping expand the first party options for this class.
I'm not going to lie, when I first saw the thread title I thought this thread was going to go in the opposite direction and complain about the Cult of Paizo's sycophants giving five stars to everything.
Wow, that's...actually a very real issue which I see a lot. Never really thought of it until now though.
That's not fair, they're technically 1/8 according to the guide, as the blood kineticist managed to score green.
Unless we're subtracting points for red, then we're at -3/8.
If only there was someone who knew how this class worked and had proven that time and time again...if only...
You could say that wood does have a composite blast of wood+wood and call it "verdant blast".
If you're going to do that, you might as well check out Kineticists of Porphyra which actually does give them a composite, and one of the later books also gives them a basic talent, making it almost like a real element.
Another vote for kineticist, if third party is lower check out Kineticists of Porphyra and Legendary Kineticists, N. Jolly is the master of all things kinetic and it shows in their writing.
Complete agreed here, the class doesn't really function that well at all without 3p content, as it's just so unfinished in its current state. Hell, both elements in Occult Origins were even stated to 'not be primary elements', but with the kineticists of porphyra and legendary kineticists books, they really get fleshed out into their own solid element.
Isn't the fact that the wizard has access to blood money RAW and RAI both kind of invalidating of the concepts of the duel? Paizo wrote a spell that allows a wizard with prep time to ignore expensive prereqs (not to mention all the other spells the wizard can use to combine with this for even MORE ways to abuse it), it exist, and it's a part of the class as much as any other spell. If you're going to say they can't use it, you're house ruling here, and that does against the spirit of what you're trying to do here, which is to prove the rogue stands any chance (it doesn't).
Now with the news of what the first two hardcover books will be next year, it looks like the kineticist will not get the love it needs anytime soon unless they release a completely kineticist focused players companion book.
That's a shame. I like codexes as much as the next person, but I really wish we'd get more for this class. Hopefully horror adventures has some stuff in it for them, at least on the 1st party front :D
So I was thinking about archetypes, and how you can apply more than one they don't coincide, and I started to wonder how many is the most you could possibly add to a single class? I kind of want to say the monk just for the free one they get that gives them magic abilities, but what's the most you could put onto a single class legally?
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