Elcian's page

Congratulations Heathy!

Still not brave enough to take the plunge on conception. Happy to practice though (safely) till I get really good at it!

you have lucky kids,

Elcian

If you haven't already had a look, please consider heading on over to the What Can I Do to Help Paizo page.

We can only see the Pathfinder numbers when we're in the office, but as of Friday afternoon, the numbers were looking very good. I don't really want to provide exact figures, but we're moving towards our targets very quickly.

And, of course, we're very pleased with the community's response towards Paizo, both here and on other boards. Rest assured, we understand that this community is special, and we have a lot of cool things in store for community members in the coming months.

-Vic.
.

Hi Vic,

Thanks for the reply. I have checked the FAQ page and as I'm sure you saw I'm all signed up.

I wouldn't expect you to provide exact numbers. For one thing its an open web site and for another I would have no idea if you gave numbers if they were good or bad. I just wanted to know exactly what you said, looking good and on the way to where you want them to be.

I know you, and the rest of the staff value us, I wanted you to know we all value you guys too.

Thanks

Elcian

PS I'm not usually this gushy. I'm sure I'll get over it soon!

shameless BUMP as I write so slow...

First off I would like to echo all the sentiments of support and praise for the way Paizo handled all this. You guys have been awesome. How many other companies would have had direct contact with customers all the way up to CEO level (thanks Lisa) I think I even saw posts from Vic Wertz answering people on saturday!

We are all probably (for various reasons) still angry at WOTC but I want to avoid all that vitriole on this thread and be more optomistic.

A while ago you asked us what kept us comming back to the paizo site and community. Probably a little market research on your part to make sure we didn't all say "official D&D". However, what came through loud and clear was that everyone liked the community atmosphere.

I have read hundreds of posts over the last couple of days and while people are worked up the community is shinning through. All the "Lords of the boards" seem to have signed up to Pathfinder, even Heathy seems to have calmed down a little and returned to his usual humourous posts.

We have all been so shocked by the news that we have consentrated on how it affects us. What I am mostly concerned with right now is how is affects you. I feel you huys did your bit for us (getting Pathfinder ready, answering posts, clming us down etc), I want to make sure we do enough for you.

So my question is this. Pathfinder needs to be a success to keep you guys in jobs (and us in quality material), hows it looking so far? Are you getting the numbers you need subscribing? What % of the way are you to break even?

Good luck,

Elcian

does anyone know if these forums will continue beyond the end of Dungeon and Dragon mags in August?

As a DM that just started his Shackled City campaign, I am concerned I may be losing the best support group I've ever been involved with.

Robert

I believe James Jaccobs has said the messageboards are property of Paizo and they like 'em so there staying.

I certainly hope they do. It would be a shame to lose the community. I'm fairly new here myself but it already feels like its full of friends.

Elcian

Ok, I think I have calmed down enough to post something coherent.

First off I echo the sentiments here or shock and dismay. It's funny how attached you can get to a magazine.

I would rather this had not happened but it has so, we are where we are.... Given that I think Paizo is making the best of the situation and it sounds like we are going to get pretty much everything we liked before but split between Pathfinder and Gamemastery. the only down side is the cost but if this makes Paizo more secure and they continue to produce the quality (I'm sure they will) I will find the cash.

As to the reaction I think the fact Paizo senior staff manned these boards to look after thier customers is fantastic. It only enhances my opionion of you guys. As for WOTC, well they are suspiciously absent (hidding under the desks no doubt) which says all I need to hear about how much they care about thier customers.

As always its been dressed up in whats good for the consumer but, again as always, it is money that rules and I think WOTC think they can do the mags online, avoid publishing and make a mint from rising sales.

There is one small problem, well two actually

1) The most loyal Dungeon and Dragon mag customers are on these boards and we are unanimously either going with Paizo or boycotting WOTC offering, from what I've read on the boards

2) Without the periodical on the shelves what drives people into game stores? Nothing. Lost opportunity purchases. (someone else point but sorry cant find it now)

I'm in for Pathfinder. I know it will be good. As for WOTC, I never bought much anyway and what I did way through Paizo. I wont say I will never buy anything because you never know but I will certainly not but anything I dont absolutley have to have. such as a new PH or MM.

Thak you Paizo, we are with you, keep up the good work!

Elcian

PS sorry for the long post. I feel strongly about this. I think we all do.

Thanks Cosmo,

Its showing up now. I thought it was probably something like that as I have never had any issues before but I just thought I would check before I sit here like a lemon.

thanks for your help. I will keep you posted.

Elcian

Hi Cosmo,

I know you've answered me (at least It says you were the last poster) but I cant see your post yet. Whatever you said thanks for the answer I expect it will show up soon.

Elcian

Hi Guys,

I placed this order on the 27th of March. "Tearing of the weave" reads dispatched but has not arrived yet. I know magazines take a while but I've never had a product take this long. Should I be concerned? Reorder? Ask for a replacement? (No idea how I prove it never arrived)or hang on a bit longer?

Any answer is fine, just wondered if it should be here by now?

Thanks

Elcian

Ok, so sometimes it takes a while for an idea to form but what about this,

1) Wizards are not authorising any Greyhawk material even though they know there is a call for it.

2) Wizards are limiting the AP Hard covers that are kind of set in that world. (limiting any official changes to the setting).

3) Speculation abounds about 4th edition

Could the conclusion be that 4th edition would be launched with a hardback Greyhawk setting as the core world. Thus seeing a return to 1st edition basics and ensuring great launch sales?

They could then either produce there own support material or allow Paizo to produce the AP's already in third edition but with an update to 4th edition. This would bring the Paizonians on board and ensure better sales of the AP's.

If I was Brand manager for WOTC and there was a fourth edition on the horizon this is what I would do. Or maybe I'm just reading too much into it and its all to do with boring legal stuff.

Elcian

Elcian wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

No news yet regarding any future hardcover adventure compilations like Age of Worms. :(

Thanks for the update James. I will keep hoping..

Elcian

PS I might have missed this somewhere. if so appologies, will there definitely be an AP4?

Yeah apparently there was a quote saying that is gonna be completely material plane campaign.

Thanks, thats something to look forward too!

As I say, I think your right about the WOTC adventures being the stumbling block. Its miss guided as it assumes the amount of money dedicated to gaming is limited. In reality I think if there are more quality products people will buy more. To me this says Wizards think their product is inferior.

Elcian

No news yet regarding any future hardcover adventure compilations like Age of Worms. :(

Thanks for the update James. I will keep hoping..

Elcian

PS I might have missed this somewhere. if so appologies, will there definitely be an AP4?

NorthernOkie wrote,

Well, here we are at nearly a year since the original post. OBVIOUSLY the interest is high and SCAP continues to sell well so that seems like a "no brainer" for the guys in the WotC treasury department.

What's the word on a publication date for a AWAP hardcover????

What he said, any news at all? Even if its a no?

I only recently started getting Dungeon and I am currently running SCAP. Which I bought in HC long after the path had finished in the mag due to the (accurate) praise on these boards. I would buy an AOW HC if there was one (or a box set, though I doubt this would happen) since I missed the original issues.

As far as i can see the only reason WOTC might have for not approving this is competition. Paizo's financial security is surely not a concern for wizards. If Paizo doesn't make a profit what do they care, give the licence to someone else. Surely WOTC will only care if in their opinion a HC AP will mean less sales for them.

If anyone at Wizards ever reads this could I just say, this is ridiculous. I spend my money on products I like. If I see two products I like, I buy two. If I see none, I buy none. I do not spend a fixed amount of money on D&D every month. If they are worried that an AOW HC would stop me buying WOTC books then they need to take a look at the quality of there product.

I bought the expedition to castle ravenloft, I have ordered the Tearing of the Weave and the Shadowdale module from wizards. If these are good I will buy more. In short my money follows the quality not the quantity of available material.

Keep up the excellent work on the AP's and lets hope that WOTC dont try to block a 4th AP. If they do I might just stop buying WOTC materials and stick to Paizo.

Elcian

Mine also arrived today in the UK.

Elcian

I filled mine in. Ahhh, finally, inside the ravings of a mad woman! Feel the insanity!

-Lisa

Somehow anything I might put in a profile seems a little shabby after that. What have I been doing with my life? Is there anything that happens in the gaming industry that isn't driven by you?

Great Mags and great website, thanks.

Elcian

Fatespinner wrote:

I find it amusing that Zombie's posts, which consist of gibberish, seem to be unaffected by the April Fools Day filters. Maybe it's a "smart" filter that realizes it can't make this nonsense any worse!

Read paperclip every tomato other list word. I pretzel decided later if lettuce they tin wanted plastic nonsense, hamstring I'd boot give cord it speaker to tape them.

Fair enough

Elcian

gnitset gnitset...lliw sdrawkcab gnitirw krow?

Sey! Sey! Ti skrow!!!

suineg!

Elcian

Elcian wrote:

I thought if the joke was after midday on April the 1st the person playing the joke was the fool for the whole year. Or was that someone playing an april fools joke on me?

Maybe we make more sense this way, or maybe they forgot how to turn this off?

Elcian

Thoth telephone a bugbear photograph icecream. But tanks orc brain stem treehugger.

Got me? Now I'm completely confused.

Elcian

I thought if the joke was after midday on April the 1st the person playing the joke was the fool for the whole year. Or was that someone playing an april fools joke on me?

Maybe we make more sense this way, or maybe they forgot how to turn this off?

Elcian

Great idea for a thread. I have spotted a few of us Brits on the Boards, here goes..

Born in Bristol. Living in cornwall. Started playing D&D after seeing an episode of Taggart based on Role playing games. I had no idea about them but they sounded cool so I asked a friend who, as luck would have it, had played D&D with his family. He fleshed out the idea of the game and pretty soon we were starting our first group. We were 14 or 15 and the group lasted (at least the three core players did) for about 3 years (mostly avatar trilogy/ homebrew). Then I two of us went off to University and the group broke up, though we kept in touch.

That was 14 years ago. About 3 or 4 years ago I got back in touch with the guy who had been the DM (after losing contact for about 5 years). We got talking about old games and to cut a long story short we started our first game in 14 years about 2 months ago. We have 2 new players which were difficult to find! (talking about D&D in the UK is a bit like I how I imagine it must be to start a serious conversation about wife swapping. People kind of look at you as if your nuts and mentally brand you a freak as the edge away from you).

Anyway, my gaming drought is over and the new group started Shackled City AP with me as the DM. I think we will only get to play about once a month at most but its better than not at all. Every cloud...

Elcian

Aluminium Cricket bats?

Heathen!

Cricket is far too English for such new fangled ideas. We even stop for Tea and Lunch (As well as sleeping 4 times) during the course of a test. Very civilized.

Aluminium Pah!

Elcian

I lived at home until I was 29. In retrospect I probably should have moved out sooner, but it was a cushy number and I get on very well with my parents.

However, there is a growing trend in the UK for grown-up kids to stay at home, though this is largely financial - housing is now incredibly expensive to purchase. This didn't particulalrly affect me, as I always earned good money (except for a six month hiatus when I didn't have a job, and moved quite happily back with Mum and Dad for that period) but my story is far from unusual in the UK these days (though more so when I was younger).

Aubrey, I think I heard somewhere that the average age to move out of home in the UK for boys is now over 30?

Glad I did it when I did, Dont think I could afford too now.

Elcian

Moved out to go to University at 18 and never really went back except the holidays. Fully supported myself from the age of 21 (11 years ago) when I went into retail management. Now I live with my partner of 8 years (she's a non gamer) about 130 miles from my parents (not on purpose, its just the way it went). Still in sales just not retail anymore.

As for the rest of the group. Out of 4 of us only one still lives at home (moved out for a while but moved back for family reasons). The other two both have wives and kids.

Sorry Heathy, Cant compete with a moisture farm!

Elcian

Elcian,

That extra copy is yours to keep. Maybe a nice gift for a friend? Your account has also been credited so the extra issue won't count against your subscription.

~Corey~

Elcian wrote:

Mine arrived two days ago. Great issue but I recieved two #145's on the same day. Do I need to send one back? If so where do I send it in the UK?

Thanks

Elcian

Thanks Corey, Excellent service as always. I know just the person for the extra copy!

Elcian

I think the general concensus seems to be, really cool idea, difficult to make it work as a business. Now while I, and most others, love the idea enough to hope you make it work the issue is revenue stream vs expenses. Now I know this suggestion isn't going to fit your initial idea but see what you think anyway,

Do you have a place locally that is already open which you could use in the evenings when they are closed. I'm thinking existing coffee shops, bookstores with seats that kind of thing. You probably need an independant as any chain is going to worry about insurance and stock loss issues. The idea is that they are already paying the fixed costs and surviving so for them its extra revenue (always welcome). For you your only expenses are they running costs and whatever they place charges you. If it works you can set up with existing clientel if it doesnt you lose very little.

Of course the down side is how do you pitch the idea to an existing business without them saying "great idea, why do we need you to do it?". You could probably solve this by pointing out that you are the expert in this field and you understand the customers.

What do you think?

Elcian

I'm still fairly new to the boards though I've lurked for a while. I came originally to have a look at the new Dungeon magazine. I live in England (cornwall) so there are none on the shelves. I had been away from gaming for about 15 years but some friends and I were thinking about getting a group together and I was looking for ideas on what to DM. (Shackled City as it turned out).

Once here, as everyone else said, I found the community to be the most civilized I have ever read (as long as you dont miss spell rogue). I dont contribute to any other boards but started too on this one when I thought I might be able to answer a question about an old product.

Being able to see what other DM's recommend is invaluable.

Elcian

Try "War of the flowers" by Tad Williams. Its a long read but I also love the dresden books and this is the closest thing too it for setting. Real world meets Fantasy.

That said I think Tad Williams my well be the best Fantasy author alive. Memory Sorrow and Thorn is fantastic. Otherland ia also superb. Read em all!

Elcian

Why not just make it into a mini-gaming store/coffee house? Sell the D&D books, and some of the paper products of other major RPGs, minis, and a small amount of gaming specific stuff (battlemats) instead of magazines like People, Life, etc, but not all the curio crap and other trappings of the stereotypical gaming store. I would like this idea more than just a coffee house that I can sit and game at and it would probably have a better chance of surviving with gamers buying supplies from there.

FH

Fake Healer is right and I think this is what I was alluding too earlier. Most restuarants can tell you the average spend per seat and the average duration of stay. Retail is all about Sales Density (Sales per Square Foot) Food is all about through flow. The solution to 90% of resturant problems is either move customers faster or increase the seating. As Sebastian rightly points out most places want you to spend, drink and go. If your encouraging people to stay (and I think the concept is fantastic for the market you want to serve) you need a revenue source that does not make you dependant on food. The mark up is good but without through put...

while I think about it you need to take into account shrinkage (stuff thts goes out of date etc) when costing. you never sell everything.

As Fakey (can I call you that?) says, merge a game store and a coffee shop but do it better than either do it at present for that market.

You mention you dont want to steal revenue from the local gaming stores. While I commend the sentiment and I am far from a capitalist, you might want to rethink this unless they are friends of yours. If you do this and it works I gaurantee they will be putting in drinks machines and selling food within the month. Ask yourself this "If these other game stores dont fit my needs why am I protecting them?"

Please dont take this as criticism. I really hope you do this and succeed but if any of this helps it might save you making costly mistakes.

Elcian

PS glad you liked the ideas!

This is a fantastic idea. I live in England so I probably wont be your most regular customer but since you asked for feedback I have some questions.

1) How will your core market know you are for gamers?
2) Apart from food what else do you offer that makes me go to you to game rather than stay home? Will I have to pay for parking etc?
3) What will you do about non gamer people who turn up? Obviously your going to serve them but if they dont feel comfortable they aren't comming back. (Maybe thats what you want in which case no need to worry)
4) Will you make all of your profit from foodstuffs or could you also sell items such as Dice, Paper, Pencils etc. Maybe even minatures and adventures.
5) How late will you stay open and on what nights?
6) What profit do you need to make to cover overheads and your wages plus any other staff wages plus oncosts. (you probably worked this out already.
7) What else in your area offers gamers these facilities or similar?

Finally and most importantly

8) How big is the gamer population you are going to serve?

I have a few ideas on how this might look as well, assuming you think all of the above stack up in your favour what about the following,

1) Music? Perhaps varied in normal hours and atmospheric during game sessions?
2) How about a resident DM. Someone experienced who is happy to run games once a week for a core group of players. Maybe SCAP or AOW or maybe Forgotten realms theamed? Then you could have Guest DM's and try to get someone kown locally or, even better, in the industry.
3) You could give some kind of XP award to players who attend to game that they cam trade in for a cup of Coffee etc. Like a loyalty scheme.
4) Grid off the tables so the can double as battlemats for those that need them.
5) Large screen TV to advertise upcomming events (at the cafe), Charge Local gaming stores to advertise on it to bring in revenue. Other times put on screenings of classics like LOTR or Star Wars (might need a licence in the states I don't know). Charge entry for these but do it well. Perhaps all the films back to back with a meal at half time?
6) Put in a wireless network so people can use there laptops to search the net and power points so they can use them for game aids if they want. Printers would be good as well.

I might have more if I think about it but its a start...

Hope it helps, good luck with a really cool idea. If there were enough gamers in England for someone to open one of these I would go.

Elcian

Mine arrived two days ago. Great issue but I recieved two #145's on the same day. Do I need to send one back? If so where do I send it in the UK?

Thanks

Elcian

First off, I have to ask a question . . . how exactly could 4th edition be MORE minis intensive? Tactical movement and positioning is already pretty important, so I guess I can't really picture a way to make minis MORE a part of the game. Unless you include a contract in the PH, DMG, and MM that makes you promise to not play a fighter unless you get an approved fighter mini, for example . . .

I hope 4E happens. Not because I have any problem with 3.5E, especially since I just managed to get a game off the ground for the first time in fifteen years and I would have to learn another set of rules, but because if it does it means we should get continued support for many more years. If it doesn't happen we might be back in the wilderness that was post 2E.

One Proviso to me spending my cash on it though would be for it not to go down this line as I dont use minatures (nothing wrong with them just not for me) That said if this were the line I wanted to go down...

If I wanted to make the game more miniatures centric I would sell all of the monsters in blister packs with supporting stat cards that slot into an index system. This would replace the MM but I would sell an index box to organise the index cards that contained a selection of CR1 monsters stat cards and minis to start you off. This would be like the old Monsterous Compendium but in Index card style and to increase your available monsters you would need to buy the mini's. Of course for 1/2CR monsters you would get two in a pack.

I hope this never happens,

Elcian

Thank you for the kind words. I studied philosophy of science at university about 15 years ago. I sort of drifted away from philosophy when I realised it didn't really offer The Truth, but only pointed out the limitations of what we know, i.e. nothing at all. I have found the latter a slight comfort, since it leads to what I consider a healthy scepticism about dogmatism and what I might consider "woolliness" of a religious/spiritual kind. But since it couldn't really answer anything much beyond a negative outcome, I never really got past the problems of induction and ontology.

I agree about Philosophy not having the truth. Its more of a pool of unanswered questions. As we find some answers that gets thrown out as a new subject, Biology, Physics, Mathematics, Sociology etc...

I spent 3 years on it about 11 years ago and, while personnally I enjoyed it, now find I am well qualified to talk to drunk people in pubs. Everyone starts asking philosophical questions after a couple of pints.

Elcian

Elcian wrote:

It also has other issues as well as a waste of time, Sexi Golem, this is why I excluded the senses argument earlier.

I know. I repeated it as the crux of your argument seemed to be that nothing, including scientific laws, could exists without faith in their validity. Which I agreed with despite the fact that science would have had no trouble with the coin.

I think we are on the same lines here. I was just trying to move the argument away from Science = Fact. Religion = Pure belief. And point out its a lot more grey than that. I wanted to avoid some of the issues Empiracists have with sense arguments while still achieveing this. I also tend to agree with the post before yours (sorry cant see your name while writing this) That the induction problem is only an issue if you are searching for scientific truths. Are we all sure this is not what scientists are claiming though (I dont mean the posters on these boards I mean the scientific community in general). After all dont they claim scientific laws, not just laws for right now.

Either way I think Hume is right. You have to assume some basic things or how could you go about daily life.

Elcian

Kahoolin, sorry about forgetting your name. It was your post I was refering too

There was once a philosophy proffessor that taught a friend of mine. The proffessor placed a chair in the middle of the class and posed a pop quiz.

"Take out a peice of paper and write on it your proof as to why this chair exists."

My friend turned in a paper that read. "What chair?"

Great answer! LOL

Elcian

The two problems set out above (the problem of induction - "how do you know the future will resemble the past" and the problem of ontology - "how can I trust my senses are actually telling me the truth") basically floor any discussion of religion, or any other belief about the universe. We don't know, we never will know. It is a question of faith.

Aubrey, I know from other posts that you are in the UK, as am I. Am I to guess from this that you also have some Philosophy background as I do. If so what? I'm just curious. Your summation was spot on.

Elcian

However, the induction problem remains, and all the above is based upon ignoration of said issue.

This is true, Kuhn suggested that this might be a paradigm shift version of scientific understanding. In his opinion we continue with our current view and modify it in the face of evidence to the contrary untill we have so many amendments that the curent theory is replaced by a simpler one that explains the known facts better.

"Simultaneously, one must remain mindful of the practical issues at hand. Perhaps this entire world is just a dream, and nothing beyond your own consciousness is real. You can't prove that it's not, since all tools that would be used to do so would only be part of the delusion."

This is well known in Philosophy as the problem of "Brains in Vats" you can not know you are not a brain in a vat with all of your experience fed to you by some super scientist/ technician. Since nothing in your experience reveals the truth you can not justifiable trust your senses.

I would refute this point by saying that if you have nothing in your experience that is inconsistent (which would prove the control or delusion) you can trust that your senses to show you the world you live in. Even if it is not real the rules you form are valid for that universe.

" I find skepticism over the reality of reality to be largely a waste of time."

It also has other issues as well as a waste of time, Sexi Golem, this is why I excluded the senses argument earlier. If you doubt everything as Descartes tried to do in an attempt to prove rationalism over skeptacism even the affirmation "I think therefore I am" can itself be doubted. It assumes a single thinker to do the thinking. But it could be a randon thought buble or it could be the agreed upon thought of several behind the scenes actors.

The interesting question for science comes from within the system. It uses scientific reasoning to raise an issue. Anything outside the system just meets with criticism that you have not understood the basis of science.

The other issue with the senses can be wrong argument is that it can be a double edged sword. If we go down the road of "my senses are sometimes wrong and I cant tell when they are fooling me therefore I will trust none of them" we logically should equally assume that since "my senses sometimes are correct and I can not tell when they are I will trust all of my sense input"

Elcian

I completely agree. As I say I would put myself in the science camp and I would not say its a religion. That said, while I think the scientific method is the best way we have of working out how the universe works on a philosophical level I find the induction problem facinating. It lies right at the heart of how science functions.

I am probably not doing a good job of explaining it but wikipedia might have a better discription. As a scientist I think you would fnd it interesting. It wont change you view, or mine for that matter, but it is interesting to think about.

Elcian

Science cannot be called religion. Science is a method of study and learning. Unlike dogma, science is subject to change. It does not hold that what it states is truth revealed by divine providence. It presents its findings a result of repeated observations based on controlled experiments. Everything is subject to challenge and change

This is a facinating discussion and one I have tried to stay out of since I am not religous. That said, my background is philosophy and I just cant miss the opportunity to throw my hat into the ring on this one.

While on the day to day level I agree with Bills discription of science, on the philosphical level I would like to raise a point.

Science establishes universal laws based on numerous individual instances of observed events (as Bill points out).

For example; the sun came up this morning and I have observed this many times before. Everyone I know also observed this therefore we can postulate a law that says the sun comes up in the morning (for now lets ignore the Descartian view that these are all sense based observations and that we cant trust our senses, or the gramatical issue that the sun rising is the definition of morning. Its an example. I could have used water boiling at 100 degrees or others).

The laws of science are claimed to be universal. They hold true at all points of space and time. Gravity always works in a certain way. Water boils at the same temperature on earth now and in 1000 years or a million years.

Heres the problem. Since we can not observe every instance we are extrapolating from our experience to the universal. And making a clain about all points in space and time.

Let me demonstrate. Suppose I flip a coin 100 times and it comes downn heads each time. In science I would form the rule. The coin lands on heads when it is flipped. We all know this is not true and that its 50/50 but our experience and observations of the 100 flips demonstrate the law. Scientific laws are the same. We have thousands or years worth of observations but there are millions of years worth of missing data and in terms of space an endless amout of other places we have not been to check the rules. Plus we cant know if tomorrow the laws might just change, the coin land on tails.

This is the problem of induction (look it up if you want). Science rests on this shaky pillar.

My question is this. Since the induction process to get to universal laws is unprovable does science not also rest on a belief. A belief that induction tells us something about the universe. Different from Religion I grant you but equally as difficult to prove.

Does this make science a religion? Don't think so. Does it mean its fact based? As far as possible. Does it mean its belief free? Definitely not.

Please note that this is a philosophical point and no conlusions of my religous beliefs should be drawn. Actually I would put myself in the science camp if I had too but that doesnt mean I cant see the problem.

Elcian

PS I used to be agnostic but now I'm not so sure.

I think a series set in the continuing trek universe (just after Voyager) that shows starfleet to be 'the bad guys' and lets the viewer see just what it's like if your one of those people who wants to have money, a religeon, smoke, drink and some other things that dont seem to be allowed on the Enterprise!

This series would tell the story of those who dont want to be assimulated by the fascist-flavored federation! :D

The stars of the series would be a group of freedom fighter/terrorist/rebels made up of different races who have exciting adventures in the alpha quad.
Things like trying to bust out politcal prisoners from federation jails or escaping capture by starfleet ships!

Each episode would see them desperatly trying to tear down this HUGE overbearing borg-like culture eating creature by pulling various stunts like kidnapping important trek figures and sabataging first contacts, stealing starships and blowing up outposts etc.

This rag-tag group would be supported by all manner of power groups, often by the Ferengi - who would supply them with cool tech and hide them in space-safehouses, fit them with cloaking devices and other nice things.

It would be great if done properly.

There was a British Series called Blake Seven which came out after the original Trek. It was pretty much exactly this. Even took the Federation symbol and tilted it 180 degrees as the Empires symbol, dont know how they got away with it. Its dated worse than Trek since the budget was smaller but the concept is brilliant and worth checking out if you can find repeats or the DVD's. The show was created by Terry Nation who also created the Daleks in DR Who. It lasted 4 seasons before finishing abruptly. I think the guy who played "Avon" (Paul Darrow) has been trying to bring it back.

Personally I think a Battlestar Galactica type reimagining of Blake seven would be excellent.

Elcian

If I remember correctly 2E went down the path of lots of "complete" and "Compendium" style books (as well as numerous settings) just before it was reprinted in the black covers and then fizzled out (along with TSR). I am sure a 4E is on the way at some point but I hope this is not the start of it yet as I've only just returned to D&D after a 15 year abscence and I'm just getting the hang of the 3.5E rules. Which IMO are excellent.

Elcian

Sorry forgot to mention, you asked about problems with the first edition I think in terms of plot structure and story arc, characters knowing what to do next etc? The 3.5E does seem to try and solve some of this but it doesn't look like it solves it completely. Of course as I haven't run it yet I might be speaking to soon....

Elcian

Darthloser wrote:

This is what I have

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=003&sspagename=S TRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=130070671746&rd=1&rd=1

Hmm - not the product I thought you had. I guess their where two releases of the Dragonlance material in 2nd edition. I have a version with a red cover released in three volumes.

I think Jeremy and I might be on the same lines. As I say the PDF's of all three volumes (green cover vol1, Blue cover Vol2 and red cover Vol 3 all (AD&D TSR)) are available on the download section of this site. Sorry I dont know how to do links. They were collected volumes (4 in each collection) of the first edition modules with some changes to update to 2E.

I haven't seen the version you purchased so can't really help much but as its WoTC its a later edition.

As for the New 3.5E Dragons of Autumn it is an updated version of the old green cover Classics (check the PDF). I have not run it but have read about half of it. Its basically the same book as the old classics with new stat blocks, a few new encounters and some tweaking to allow for faster PC progression in 3.5E compared to 2E. IMO if you want to run this and you have time to modify use the PDF's at $4.00 a piece. If not go for the updates 3.5E versions.

Hope this helps

Elcian

First post so here goes, hello one and all.

The points jeremy made about the prep needed for these modules is spot on and they do become a bit linear and difficult to follow. From memory every time the PC's get off track an army of Draconians appears over the horizon to put them back on course. That said if you can live with the problems the story is worth it.

I dont know if it helps but the original modules were collected into 3 volumes in 2E (this might be what you have) they are available for download in PDF from this site. Maybe someone who knows how to do links might help you out? I dont know if the poster maps are included in the PDF, which were the best thing about the collected volumes, but the updated versions dont have them anyway.

Hope this helps?

Elcian