ElPapoFugitivo's page

ElPapoFugitivo wrote:

So stop telling the women here that their experiences and reactions to those experiences are invalid.

The only person I see telling people their experiences are invalid is you.

ElPapoFugitivo wrote:

YOUR opinion is worthless. You don't know what it's like. I don't care how smart you are. How experienced you are. How sensitive you are. How you were bullied or made fun of for x or y problem you have. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE!

If you want to keep this thread civil, I recommend you take a deep breath, take your finger off the caps lock button, and talk to people like they're people, and not "the problem."

When a women suggests that an all female game night would be helpful and a male responds with, "What's REALLY best for you is a mixed game night." That's invalidating their experience. If you're not seeing it, it's because you're not paying attention. And that's the crux of this issue. We all need to pay a bit more attention.

I'm not telling anyone their experience is invalid, I'm telling them that their application of that experience onto people and situations they do not understand is invalid.

Now I'm gonna take my own advice and hush up.

BNW, let me start by saying, while I don't post much, I have followed the boards for a while, and in general I agree with you more than not, so this isn't just a "You're Stoopid, anonymous person whom I'm judging based only on 3 sentences I just read"

But, in this case I disagree vehemently. The errorI think you, and a number of posters on this thread, fall prey to, is thinking that this is a problem for you to analyze and solve in any way.

It's not.

It's not about you. It's not about how you approach ideas. It's not about what words make you feel angry or defensive. Or what YOU can do so YOU feel like less of a jerk or weirdo or whatever.

It's

Not

About

YOU.

It's about the women who play this game. And the women who might want to play this game. And the women who never will play this game because of various and sundry reasons.

The OP asked how to be more inclusive of women. That's not a topic you, or I, or anyone with a penis gets to have an opinion that matters on. We have the 'privilege' of listening to some rather articulate and patient women explain some of those reasons to us. Our only acceptable response is to say "Okay, I hear you."

Then we take the information provided and do with it what we will. Maybe we think they're full of it and don't do anything. Maybe we don't think there's a problem and don't do anything. Maybe we make small changes to how we speak and interact. Maybe we have life-changing epiphanies and dedicate ourselves to the cause of feminism.

But whatever we do, it starts with simply listening.. Not saying "Yeah, but..." or "You're wrong about this..." Or "You should do this instead..."

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that not one if the women who've shared here are asking for your help analyzing their experience, their reactions to that experience, or even their thoughts on how to make future experiences better. They are giving their thoughts, take them or leave them, but it's not your responsibility to stress test their thought processes for them.

I said hush up. I meant hush up. Because, I believe you're wrong, EVERYTHING is to be gained by men shutting up about a whole host of women's issues and simply listening to what they say.

Perhaps, just perhaps, the men on this thread can take a step back from mansplaining what the women are doing wrong while discussing this issue and simply READ and ABSORB what they are saying.

It's not a question of whether you agree. Or whether it makes you feel bad. Frankly, WMP exists. The evidence is easily and widely available. Arguing against it or demanding additional proof is trolling on par with demanding more proof for evolution or climate change. The need says far more about you than about the state of reality.

So just hush up and listen. If you disagree, that's your right, but I'm certain neither the OP or the majority of readers here want to hear how offended you are.

On topic, I recently attended my first con since being a teenager (let's say 20 odd years). My wife, daughter and son accompanied me and we all played a PFS game. For what it's worth, my 10 year old daughter's excitement at the prospect grew exponentially when she learned a female GM had volunteered to run our table. And in at least one instance that female judge, rightfully, slapped me down for not giving my own daughter enough time to make her own decisions in-game.

It's not an easy topic to deal with. But it's a heck of lot easier if those of us with the power talk less and listen and reflect and change a bit more.