So...let me see if I understand here...you've gotten $750,000 in loans for business (which must be paid back)...while Paizo is working on a cool million with no strings attached...and you think your way is better? LOL
But seriously, seems some folks are taking this whole think awfully seriously. It's just a game...not a religion for heaven's sake. Who cares if the guy sitting next to you paid 5 bucks to get an extra +1 on his will saves or some such...big deal.
Just checking in...didn't want ya'll to think I'd fallen off the face of the planet. I hate having missed so much fun, but there are only so many hours in the day. I am so excited to read about all the things going on and how large we've grown and I can't wait for the next opportunity to come down and join in the good times. Toodles
Considering the way I've been buried with work and other real life committments lately, I've got a suggestion for another...
Asheville Area Role Players (AARP)
then repair replaces new... and no demand for new items means ultimately, low demand for materials and less interest in transport of goods. No Nihimon Caravans :D
A valid concern. Since I'm a sentimental SOB, and like the idea of hanging on to things for the long haul, I'll paraphrase a few ideas I've read here that would address it.
So long as coin, time and resources required to repair/upgrade >= new item, then no problem.
@insorrow - the scenario you present (negative tone aside) is a perfectly reasonable one.
My point, and I think that of most of the PvP-averse presence on these forums, is this: we're willing to accept a PFO world where getting killed while flower-gathering is a possibility. We are simply expressing our hope that the game design (along with the user community aka content) will be such that it is generally the exception, not the norm.
You raise an excellent point Valkenr...something I haven't quite got my hands around completely...
I can understand someone reaping a reward for winning a PvP encounter (and as an aside, being averse to PvP, I am 100 perecent in favor of anything that adds risk to it). But why is it necessary for a character's entire inventory to be lost if someone loots their corpse. I would rather see a system where...ok fine, you lost the fight so you lose an item or two from your inventory...but the rest of it will still be there for you when you do manage to make it back to your corpse. Why delete the rest of it automatically?
Is this mechanic intended to function as a way to remove stuff from the world...sort of an economic balancing factor? I can see the need for such factors, but man...triggering it by way of an event that has already kind of sucked just adds salt to the wound...
With all due respect, this is pretty harsh, and frankly quite unfair. It seems to me to demonstrate precisely the attitude which causes the concerns I have about PvP...namely "I can kill you ha ha and I will again and again just because I feel like it ha ha and if you don't like it, go play WoW hardy har har".
If I were to lash out in kind, I might say something like "if all you want to do is fight with other people, get a job, or get married, or at least get out of your parents' basement once in a while". But, that would probably be pretty unfair too :)
So let's keep this an objective and constructive conversation, shall we?
Most of the concerns about PvP I've seen posted don't advocate a complete restriction against it, but rather express concerns about PFO devolving into a gank-fest where only the strongest (or quickest twitch fingers) survive. If that's what you're advocating, then I believe there are few on these boards (even those in favor of PvP) who'd support your position.
I think most would agree with you on one very important point though. I certainly do. We all want a game everyone can enjoy. And it must be recognized that not everyone enjoys PvP. I think the developers' goal here is to make a game that appeals to as wide an audience as possible, including those of us who 1) don't particularly like PvP, 2) understand there's a development vision of a large, dynamic and immersive world for PFO, 3) understand that this vision includes PvP for various reasons which are discussed at length elswhere, 3) are willing to accept PvP with the hope that it will at most be simply an element of a much larger game, not the central tenet.
If PvP does become the central tenet of PFO, then yes, I agree with you on another point...many of us should, and undoubtedly will leave for other pastures.
Agreed. I wasn't aware of the legal element, but have understood from the earliest Goblinworks blog posts that the character advancement mechanics would be significantly different. Not terribly worried about mechanics. As you say, it is the "feel", or character/flavor/texture of the game that I'm mostly concerned with being true to PFRPG.
I think the PvE elements discussed will provide some of that...e.g. 4 guys walk into a tavern and find out the ostler's daughter has been kidnapped by evil goblins (themepark quests). Of course, the downside to this is once you've done the quest once, there's nothing new to a repeat experience.
Far more intriguing to me is how far the game design will go in providing people the capability to put on home-brew GM hats and coming up with their own quests...and bestowing those quests on other people. Yes, contracts will give some of that, but there is a limit to what can be done with contracts...escort this guy there, bring me 20 widgits, etc...
I wonder if the developers envision a player-accessible toolset to build their own bad-guy places/scenarios. That's something I'd willingly pay a premium for :)
I am an anti-PvP'er in general. I was thrilled when I first heard about PFO, but I was initially tempted to pass on the Kickstarter Tech Demo because of the PvP element that has bothered me since I read about it. Ultimately, I wound up kicking in a significant chunk of change for the demo because of blog statements that that the system would provide means for strongly discouraging "murder" e.g. PvP when it was unwanted or unwelcome.
I remain concerned that outside of the NPC safe zones, any character will essentially be vulnerable to such unpleasantness. I imagine under the best of circumstances, from time to time I'm going to get ganked by someone with nothing better to do and I really dislike the prospect. I am hopeful that all the goodness I'm reading about will outweigh it though.
The bottom line for me is this: I want to play an interesting, challenging game with many character growth options/paths. I do not want to pay money to become some snot-nosed idiot's virtual chewtoy.
If I find that I am getting killed by other people too often (which for me means anything more than very infrequently), I'll simply walk away disappointed that PFO for me failed.
Semi-related note...Interesting thought train expressed in several posts on this thread. Simply put, in some fundamental ways, PFO will be completely different that Pathfinder table-top. This is something else that concerns me a bit. I am excited about PFO because I love Pathfinder table-top. How true PFO stays to table-top will be another major factor in whether I become a long-term devotee, or try it for 1 month and then cancel my subscription.
Is this viable or is there a hole in my logic somewhere?
Net-using Human Fighter...Exotic weapon net, net adept and PA feats at first level...typical tactic will be to advance to within 15 feet of the bad guy and ready a sword attack if the guy moves to within 5 feet of me...so if he moves to attack me, I net him with attack of opportunity (melee 10 foot reach attack because of net adept feat), then drop the net which is hopefully already entangling the guy as a free action and hack him with my greatsword as my readied action.
James, number for Trip is 43472 -6. I've already decided to retire him though...gonna create a variation that I think will be better. Net-using 20 Str Human Fighter...Exotic weapon net, net adept and PA feats at first level...typical tactic will be to advance to within 15 feet of the bad guy and ready a sword attack if the guy moves to within 5 feet of me...so when he moves to attack me, I net him with attack of opportunity (melee 10 foot reach attack because of net adept feat), then drop the net which is already entangling the guy as a free action and hack him with my greatsword for 2-12+10 as my readied action. Mwahaha...
Probably shouldn't be telling you this...I'll probably get 14 level-draining wights dropped on my head when I walk through the next of one of your doorways...
Great time last night at WT. Great job GMing as usual Luth. Hated the deaths...dying happens, but those were some particularly nasty critters for 1st level. Wow.
WT looks like a great space...little bit of charm in that old gal of a building. Many thanks to Simeon and Nillic for letting us sneak in early.
26th is a holiday weekend. I imagine a lot of folks might have family plans. I know I am most likely going to have my mother visiting.
Can we get a preliminary show of hands on who would be showing up for the 26th? If a lot of people have holiday plans, we might need to consider making it either the 19th or pushing all the way out to 2-June.
Yes, you heard right. There is an effort underway to develop and bring to us an MMORPG version of Pathfinder. It is being worked on by an offshoot of Paizo called Goblinworks.
Click here to read the blog that's been ongoing for about 6 months. I read through it and get the sense that this MMO will be a very different experience than the yawners that are out there now.
Also, Goblinworks launched a Kickstarter project a few days ago, to raise money that will fund a technology demo to be presented to potential investors. The $50k goal was hit in less than 24 hours (pretty danged amazing). There is also a secondary goal to have as many contributers as possible. This will show the potential investors how much interest, and perhaps more importantly how many people there are out there willing to pay a few bucks a month to play it. Click here to see and maybe contribute to this project.
Hello from the depths of "too much going on at once". Its great to see all the things happening here :)
T-shirts? Sign me up! I'll take an XL.
Geekout? hmmm...the 12th is my monthly golf tournament, though we should be starting pretty early in the day...headed to Warhorn after this to check out what's shakin and see if I can fit in both golf-out and geek-out.
And nice to hear from you Dink. Hope things are well.
Howdy! My name is Dave and I'm moving back in the area soonish and I was hoping to try out Pathfinder when I do. I've only played D&D 2.0, 3.5,modern, and Hackmaster so far. How would I get involved with this group?
I'll chime in here with my own welcome and glad to have you :) Some of the guys have already provided some great info and links. I highly recommend the Guide to Organized Play. I was a little confused when I first started looking into Pathfinder, and it explained a lot.
You see, there are really two flavors of Pathfinder games. Pathfinder, which is the open-ended game where people use published adventures/story arcs (or their own home-brew) in a home-based campaign with a small group of dedicated players who are needed at every session to continue the ongoing multi-session storyline.
And then there's Pathfinder Society (also commonly referred to as PFS and Organized Play). This is what we play in our every-other-Saturday sessions. The scenarios used in PFS are all pre-published specifically for PFS. They are 4 hour scenarios that stand alone, starting and finishing in that 4 hours. There is an established world they are all set in, with some rather complex societal dynamics, but each scenario can be played whenever by whoever with no need for keeping to any particular order. This allows players to come to sessions as they wish without having to feel obligated to come to any given session. It is common to play with different players, different party compositions and different GMs from session to session. It also makes it possible to play PFS at Cons (I recently went to a Con in Chattanooga and played PFS all weekend with people I'd never met before...had a great time).
If you have any questions about any of all this, just post away right here and we'll bury you with helpful info!
Don't make the error of thinking it's about the players FIRST - it's about selling more PFRPG product. The fluff is important. Good stories are important. Selling more product is the POINT.
Quite a cynical viewpoint. Perhaps it would help to consider that the single most effective way to sell more product is to give the customers what they want. If that doesn't equal "players first", then nothing does.
In other words, "players first" and "selling more product" are not mutually exclusive as the post seems to suggest. On the contrary, they go hand in hand. And right there with them is the idea of catering to the widest player base possible.
In the posts I've seen by Mike and Mark, it seems clear that while considering potential game changes, they place the highest priority on the understanding the opinions and experiences of all players, and go out of their way to find creative ways to do so.
I will be there on Saturday...finally finalized the Singapore trip but worked a little schmooze and not heading out till Monday. I would be willing to try my hand at GMing 1st Steps part 1 IF (big if) we are desperate for another GM, but would really prefer to wait until after I get home from SG. If I am able to play, I have a 1st level Pally, 2nd level bard and 3rd level wiz locked and loaded.
One other thing...we had a respondant to the flyer and he said he'd be there on Saturday as well...he'll have (obviously) a 1st level character.
zrinka znidarcic wrote:
Zrinka, With respect, your example doesn't apply because there were only two subtiers. I've expanded on your bolded text to demonstrate my point.
Jake Dodd wrote:
APL North (we had our first few games this week)
Wow! I had no idea! That's great. Congrats on getting it going. Is it a relatively static table, or is there room for people to come and go? I might be interested in playing some mid-week games from time to time.
Any word on Blitzkreig space being available for the 18th?
I sent an email to Nillic at TWT last week just to find out when TWT would be opening and see if he had any thoughts on potential gaming spaces. In his response he mentioned that it wasn't likely the space at Blitzkrieg could be used to game between now and then.
Awesome time last night. Great job GMing Luth! And it was great to run with Zylph, Aravandor and QC. Two things I learned...
Guys, I am currently working on a project with a large group of "customers" who often have different opinions on how something should be done. The ongoing discussions, while having merit and raising valid points, always leads to what I like to call "analysis paralysis".
We can analyze it to death and get nowhere, or we can just let Aravandor come up with 2 or 3 final designs and then vote on them as they are. I recommend the latter course.
Timothy McNeil wrote:
I understand your point. I think it is important to bear in mind that PFSOP is an organized community. Every community needs a framework within which to operate. The "order imposed from on-high" can be viewed as unfortunate, but I think it at least as fair to say it is fortuitous, in that it is what gives our community the structure necessary for episodic play...which is what allows us to game at conventions with strangers and/or friends who live far away. In addition, it makes it possible for people who for whatever reason can't commit to a regularly scheduled on-going campaign to play when they can in a flexible format they can come and go from as they please without negatively impacting others.
So I applaud the guys who have worked so hard to establish this framework, and keep it fine tuned and balanced as much as possible. They make it possible for me to enjoy a game I have loved for many many years, but for a long time have not been able to partipate in because of the demands a campaign-style game represents.
If someone else has already said what I'm about to, my apologies...I don't have the time right now to read through over 70 posts.
I'm still fairly new to PFS and have not experienced things from the GM side of the table, so my perspective may be limited, but I find myself in disagreement. Please read objectively and be gentle in your replies :)
I want my characters as powerful and self sufficient as I am able. I will pick apart the rules with microscope and tweezers to eek out every last ounce of proficiency I possibly can. I want to be ready for whatever the gaming gods throw at me.
At the same time, I understand and fully agree with the concerns expressed regarding "game-breaking" characters. I would suggest that "game-breaking" is not because of how a character is optimized, but how it is played. Whatever the nature of the table I'm playing at (balanced or imbalanced, experienced or green), I should govern my actions accordingly.
I'm sure I don't need to point out even the most experienced players can go down, sometimes quickly and unexpectedly. If that happens to a few of my co-adventurers, I'd like to have something better than harsh language to throw at the baddies. I want a howitzer...with big pointy teeth! That could be the difference between my own moment in the spotlight, and a TPK.
So in my opinion, optimize optimize optimize, if that's what you want to do...but if you're playing an enchanter, let the melee guy hack away, maybe throw a debuff or something...save the nuke for if and when the melee guy gets in trouble. And if you're playing the melee guy, maybe this time around take out the trash and let the caster have his way with the BBEG.
(And if you're the GM, I know it isn't OK, but I still say it should be OK to fudge a little here and there, though I be burned at the stake for it)
One final note. These characters we make...I won't go so far as to say there's an emotional investment in them (there shouldn't be...that's just too creepy), but there certainly is an investment in time and effort. I want to protect that investment and minimize the chances that my character will die. Having a character with nothing better than a +2 does not accomplish this. Maybe as I grow as a player, and learn to do a better job with the environment, I won't be so set on having at least my primary stat raised very high. But right now, that's my comfort zone, unabashedly so.
I think it is an outstanding name. The wyvern was a heraldic device for what was once the West Country Kingdom of Wessex, and it was used as a crest on the helmets of the kings of Aragon. Today is used as a crest symbol by Cambridge University as well as numerous other institutes of higher learning. It is also part of the coat of arms for the Valencian Parliament and Government. It suggests nobility and honor, qualities that are seemingly lacking in certain sectors of the Asheville retail environment until now :)
And as far as domains are concerned, ya'll could use goatsoupforbreakfast.com for all it matters, people don't blindly type in urls when they don't know them, they google it! Now all we have to do is get The Wyvern's Tale showing up on top of Hillside in google searches...
All I can say is...<snort> how childish on the part of Hillside. Like folks with the chutzpah and wherewithal to open a new gaming store are going to be worried about a few domain names not being available. I checked. the-wyverns-tale.com is still available. So is wyverns-tale.com. I'd imagine there are countless other variations on the theme. All Hillside has accomplished is to alienate a fair number of potential clients of their own.
Maybe a 3rd level run this weekend, if folks are interested? I have a 3rd level wiz I ran at ConNooga...wouldn't mind playing him again. Of course, easy for me to suggest when I'm not doing the GMing...
You don't believe me??? Dang...I thought I was doing a good job honing my min-max role playing skills. J. Edgar will be so disappointed.
and just blame Eaghen for this. He was clearly trying to expose me as an anti-minmax zealot.
Oh sure...just blame the noob.
In case anyone was wondering why I'd need to go to Singapore, it is because I'm a CIA operative investigating reports of a terrorist cell in the asheville area trying to recruit new members under the guise of innocent-seeming flyers posted in local gaming stores, coffee shops and colleges. My investigation is nearly complete and indictments are pending
On another note, do we have enough 3rd level PCs for a 3rd level table? I could run 3-2 Sewer Dragons of Absalom if we've got enough. I'll need some help with minis tho...
I have a 3rd level Wiz I could run, but right now I'm not sure I'll be able to make the 3rd...really want to but it looks like I have to go to Singapore for a couple weeks, departure date not definite. Right now it is a tossup between early morning the 4th or the 11th. If I have to go on the 4th, I'll probably not make it to PFS on the 3rd because I don't want to precede such a trip with only 3-4 hours of sleep. I should know by Wednesday one way or the other.
Awfully quiet on here the last couple days. Let me stir the pot a little mwahaha.
I have created a number of test characters since I became involved in PFS (wow...like 6 weeks now...I'm becoming a veteran!), toying around with concepts, different classes, ranged vs. melee vs. caster and various combinations thereof. It seems I keep gravitating towards builds with one or two really high stats and a bunch of really low stats, which is a nice way of saying min-maxed. I have read a fair bit across these forums about min-maxed characters, and not surprisingly, there are widely divergent viewpoints on the goodness/badness of them.
(throws the giant flask of alchemist's fire over the fence) What do ya'll think?
I agree there is a lot of opportunity for some great fun with this one. I had a less-than-stellar experience with it. It was still fun, and I'm not faulting our GM...just pointing out a few potential pitfalls that might detract from the experience.
The way it went for us:
1. An apparent long-time friend of our GM (at a con) tried a diplo at the beginning. The gobs were immediately our friends and the biggest problem they presented through the rest of the scenario was scarfing rations out of a pack when left unattended during a battle. They were definitely funny in the way the GM portrayed them throughout, but I can't help but feel a lot of potential the scenario brings to the table was lost. Side note - From the "Goblins be Monsters" text box at the beginning of the scenario - "While goblins are often portrayed as comical miscreants, those in this adventure are wholly evil and more insane than simply funny".
2. At the border, the gobs were agitated as we approached the hut, but quieted down before we got close. From the scenario test - "The Frostfur goblins become terrified at the sight of the porcelain doll. Cowering, they plead for the PCs to protect them from the wrath of the Witch Queen, who they believe (correctly) can see though the doll’s eyes." We tried to stealth past the hut and when we got to a point where the gobs could see the doll, not a peep out of them. With no movement from the doll and nothing from the gobs, I'm thinking stealth worked, the doll can't see us, and on we went. Seems to me an opportunity was missed here to "encourage" a battle with the doll, since several of the faction quests depend on it happening.
3. At the Blackraven Waycamp, Enrik was portrayed as a goblin hater...all-but openly hostile. He also did not indicate there was a locked storage room they could be secured in, but rather simply refused to allow them into the waystation living areas. We opted to keep them in a stall in the stable and I stayed with the gobs while the other party members went in to eat. This made fulfilling the mission far easier than it might have been, because I was able to put down the two guards being sent to kill the gobs while the rest of the party dealt with Enrik.
Again, I'm not faulting our GM, who was clearly very experienced and capable. But I wanted to highlight a few places where careful handling of the situation can enhance the challenge and enjoyment factor.