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Kaigon the Miscreant

Durngrun Stonebreaker's page

2,225 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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Artanthos wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:
Further evidence for this (from real life) is the idea of the "distant twin" - i.e. that other person that happens to look like you somewhere out there. EDIT: As an example, I've seen this happen. Saw a model (definitely female) advertising things who had a face of a guy I knew in...
My wife was meeting me for lunch once and accidentally grabbed and kissed the wrong guy. He looked exactly like me and, being military, was dressed exactly the same.

That's what she tells you...


I love the way this thread is progressing.

"I think the ring should work this way, here's why, and if I'm wrong, I will burn this game to the ground!"


DM Jelani wrote:
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:

Alchemist. All you ever need.

(Yeah, inquisitor works too.)
No knowledge local, diplomacy, bluff or sense motive. Also be pretty hard to get a +5 to hit at 1st.

Do you need +5 if it's a touch attack? The skills I think you could pick up with traits if it's that important. (Or go human and get three free skill focus feats.)

Edit: actually if you have a 16 in your ability score, mutagen raises it to 20. There's your +5.

Edits 2:Traits:
Ease of Faith: Your mentor, the person who invested your faith in you from an early age, took steps to ensure you understood that what powers your divine magic is no different from that which powers the magic of other religions. This philosophy makes it easier for you to interact with others who may not share your views. You gain a +1 bonus on Diplomacy checks, and Diplomacy is always a class skill for you.

Outcast's Intuition: You are able to sense the motives of others and use that sense to bolster your magic against dispelling. You gain a +1 trait bonus on Sense Motive checks, and Sense Motive is always a class skill for you. In addition, your caster level is treated as 1 level higher for the purposes of any attempts to dispel your magic.

Bastard: You were born out of wedlock. You have always been an outsider in society, and in your own family. This perspective has sharpened your insight. You gain a +1 trait bonus on Sense Motive checks, and Sense Motive is always a class skill for you.

Civilized: You are well versed in the local laws, customs, and politics. You gain a +1 trait bonus on Knowledge (nobility) checks and Knowledge (local) checks. Knowledge (local) is always a class skill for you.

Fast Talker: You had a knack for getting yourself into trouble as a child, and as a result developed a silver tongue at an early age. You gain a +1 trait bonus on Bluff checks, and Bluff is always a class skill for you.

Friend in Every Town: You have no problem making friends and learning information from them wherever you go. You gain a +1 trait bonus on all Knowledge (local) checks and Diplomacy checks. One of these skills (your choice) is always a class skill for you.

Influence: Your position in society grants you special insight into others, and special consideration or outright awe from others. Choose one of the following skills: Diplomacy, Intimidate, or Sense Motive. You gain a +1 trait bonus on that skill, and it is always a class skill for you.

Style Sage: You have a passion for history and news concerning monastic disciplines. You gain a +1 trait bonus on checks with your choice of either Knowledge (local) or Knowledge (history), and the one you choose is always a class skill for you. In addition, you gain a +1 trait bonus on Diplomacy checks made to gather information about any person with levels in monk.

Suspicious: You discovered at an early age that someone you trusted, perhaps an older sibling or a parent, had lied to you, and lied often, about something you had taken for granted, leaving you quick to question the claims of others. You gain a +1 trait bonus on Sense Motive checks, and Sense Motive is always a class skill for you.

Trustworthy: People find it easy to put their faith in you. You gain a +1 trait bonus on Bluff checks made to fool someone. You also gain a +1 trait bonus on Diplomacy checks, and Diplomacy is always a class skill for you.

Truth's Agent: You are skilled at weeding out information. You gain a +1 trait bonus on all Diplomacy checks made to gather information and all Knowledge (local) checks. Knowledge (local) is always a class skill for you.

Unpredictable: Your actions often seem random and chaotic to others, but there is a method to your madness. You gain a +1 trait bonus on Bluff checks, and Bluff is always a class skill for you.


Alchemist. All you ever need.
(Yeah, inquisitor works too.)


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If George Lucas did owe his fans the prequels, does that mean his fans got what they deserved?


ElementalXX wrote:

So you are asking what good is to have multiple arms if you cant make multiple attacks and how this feats interacts? thats easy

If i have 4 arms i fight with 4 weapons, a mace, a sword, a whip and an unarmed strike however

TWF wrote:


Benefit: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced.

Twf wouldnt help you if you fight with more than 2 weapons

But! Multiweapon fighting does help you. Sure you cant make all attacks at the same time but you can pick which attack to use and none of the would have the high penalties.

You can already do that.

The FAQ you apparently won't read wrote:

Multiple Weapons, Extra Attacks, and Two-Weapon Fighting: If I have extra attacks from a high BAB, can I make attacks with different weapons and not incur a two-weapon fighting penalty?

Yes. Basically, you only incur TWF penalties if you are trying to get an extra attack per round.
Let's assume you're a 6th-level fighter (BAB +6/+1) holding a longsword in one hand and a light mace in the other. Your possible full attack combinations without using two-weapon fighting are:
(A) longsword at +6, longsword +1
(B) mace +6, mace +1
(C) longsword +6, mace +1
(D) mace +6, longsword +1
All of these combinations result in you making exactly two attacks, one at +6 and one at +1. You're not getting any extra attacks, therefore you're not using the two-weapon fighting rule, and therefore you're not taking any two-weapon fighting penalties.
If you have Quick Draw, you could even start the round wielding only one weapon, make your main attack with it, draw the second weapon as a free action after your first attack, and use that second weapon to make your iterative attack (an "iterative attack" is an informal term meaning "extra attacks you get from having a high BAB"). As long as you're properly using the BAB values for your iterative attacks, and as long as you're not exceeding the number of attacks per round granted by your BAB, you are not considered to be using two-weapon fighting, and therefore do not take any of the penalties for two-weapon fighting.
The two-weapon fighting option in the Core Rulebook specifically refers to getting an extra attack for using a second weapon in your offhand. In the above four examples, there is no extra attack, therefore you're not using two-weapon fighting.
Using the longsword/mace example, if you use two-weapon fighting you actually have fewer options than if you aren't. Your options are (ignoring the primary/off hand penalties):
(A') primary longsword at +6, primary longsword at +1, off hand mace at +6
(B') primary mace at +6, primary mace at +1, off hand longsword at +6
In other words, once you decide you're using two-weapon fighting to get that extra attack on your turn (which you have to decide before you take any attacks on your turn), that decision locks you in to the format of "my primary weapon gets my main attack and my iterative attack, and my off hand weapon only gets the extra attack, and I apply two-weapon fighting penalties."

You can already decide which weapon is primary or off-hand and can change those designations as you see fit.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
ElementalXX wrote:
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
ElementalXX wrote:

Normal: A creature without this feat takes a –6 penalty on attacks made with its primary hand and a –10 penalty on attacks made with all of its off hands. (It has one primary hand, and all the others are off hands.) See Two-Weapon Fighting in the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook.

Please read this carefully. I repeat the question: Can you tell me what part specifies you can make multiple attacks by using this feat?

My guess is you are asuming something that is not written.

Attacks made with ALL of it's off-hands. Not IT'S off-hand, not ANY off-hand. Attacks made with ALL of it's off-hand.
So then it doesnt specify it grants aditional attacks then

So, willful ignorance then.


ElementalXX wrote:

Normal: A creature without this feat takes a –6 penalty on attacks made with its primary hand and a –10 penalty on attacks made with all of its off hands. (It has one primary hand, and all the others are off hands.) See Two-Weapon Fighting in the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook.

Please read this carefully. I repeat the question: Can you tell me what part specifies you can make multiple attacks by using this feat?

My guess is you are asuming something that is not written.

Attacks made with ALL of it's off-hands. Not IT'S off-hand, not ANY off-hand. Attacks made with ALL of it's off-hand.


ElementalXX wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
ElementalXX wrote:
Look up my last post, having multiple []off hands doesnt give you multiple [b]off hand attacks
PRD wrote:

Multiweapon Fighting (Combat)

This multi-armed creature is skilled at making attacks with multiple weapons.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, three or more hands.
Benefit: Penalties for fighting with multiple weapons are reduced by –2 with the primary hand and by –6 with off hands.
Normal: A creature without this feat takes a –6 penalty on attacks made with its primary hand and a –10 penalty on attacks made with all of its off hands. (It has one primary hand, and all the others are off hands.) See Two-Weapon Fighting in the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook.
Special: This feat replaces the Two-Weapon Fighting feat for creatures with more than two arms.
Note that the Normal section of the feat explicitly states "attacks with all of it's off-hands."
and do realize that the normal text is what happens when you do NOT have the feat.
Can you tell me what part specifies you can make multiple attacks by using this feat?

You should look up the word all.


ElementalXX wrote:
Saint_Yin wrote:
You get one attack for every hand.

Humans have 2 hands, by your interpretation, both get me an offhand attack. My main hand is my foot. Unarmed strikes can be made with any part of the body. You are not following your own reasoning.

Now, i dont support your reasoning, this is a example of this reasoning applied to the game, obviously there are discrepancies since commoners dont have 3 unarmed strikes in the game.

As someone else mentioned, by your reasoning also a pc with no hands cant make unarmed attacks at all, which is also not true

Also I just found the monster entry for the kasatha
It doesnt have multiple attacks even tought he is a monk

Humans have two hands, giving them a primary hand and one off-hand. Referencing this FAQ, we note that they can designate any weapon they are capable of attacking with as a primary hand or an off-hand.


ElementalXX wrote:
Look up my last post, having multiple []off hands doesnt give you multiple [b]off hand attacks
PRD wrote:

Multiweapon Fighting (Combat)

This multi-armed creature is skilled at making attacks with multiple weapons.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, three or more hands.
Benefit: Penalties for fighting with multiple weapons are reduced by –2 with the primary hand and by –6 with off hands.
Normal: A creature without this feat takes a –6 penalty on attacks made with its primary hand and a –10 penalty on attacks made with all of its off hands. (It has one primary hand, and all the others are off hands.) See Two-Weapon Fighting in the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook.
Special: This feat replaces the Two-Weapon Fighting feat for creatures with more than two arms.

Note that the Normal section of the feat explicitly states "attacks with all of it's off-hands."


Calth wrote:


Again: There is no rule in the game granting attacks based on number of limbs. It doesn't exist. Rule whatever you want in your home games, but for the general rules that exist extra arms don't add extra manufactured weapon attacks.

You are correct in the sense that attacks are not based on the number of limbs but rather the number of primary hands and off-hands. Your standard PC races only have one primary and one off-hand, but the standard PC races are not the only races out there. As a general rule, multi-armed creatures have one primary hand but can have multiple off-hands. This is demonstrated here...

PRD wrote:

Multiweapon Fighting (Combat)

This multi-armed creature is skilled at making attacks with multiple weapons.

Prerequisites: Dex 13, three or more hands.
Benefit: Penalties for fighting with multiple weapons are reduced by –2 with the primary hand and by –6 with off hands.
Normal: A creature without this feat takes a –6 penalty on attacks made with its primary hand and a –10 penalty on attacks made with all of its off hands. (It has one primary hand, and all the others are off hands.) See Two-Weapon Fighting in the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook.
Special: This feat replaces the Two-Weapon Fighting feat for creatures with more than two arms.

here...

PRD wrote:
Multi-Armed (Ex) A kasatha has four arms. One hand is considered its primary hand; all others are considered off hands. It can use any of its hands for other purposes that require free hands.

and here...

PRD wrote:
Multi-Armed (4 RP): Prerequisites: None; Benefit: Members of this race possess three arms. A member of this race can wield multiple weapons, but only one hand is its primary hand, and all others are off hands. It can also use its hands for other purposes that require free hands. Special: This trait can be taken up to twice. When it is taken a second time, the race gains a fourth arm.


By your interpretation, multi-weapon functions no differently than two-weapon fighting. With this FAQ, you can already attack with any weapon your wielding without having to designate which hand is primary or off-hand. Two-weapon fighting merely lowers the penalty for making an extra attack with your off-hand. As pointed out in the FAQ, any hand can be your off-hand. There is no need for a separate feat to lower the penalty for each hand.


I was always curious if deleted posts lowered your total post count.


He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named wrote:

This multi-armed creature is skilled at making attacks with multiple weapons.

Prerequisites: Dex 13, three or more hands.

Benefit: Penalties for fighting with multiple weapons are reduced by –2 with the primary hand and by –6 with off hands.

Normal: A creature without this feat takes a –6 penalty on attacks made with its primary hand and a –10 penalty on attacks made with all of its off hands. (It has one primary hand, and all the others are off hands.) See Two-Weapon Fighting.

Special: This feat replaces the Two-Weapon Fighting feat for creatures with more than two arms.

Now if used by a Kasatha a being with Multi-Arms (Four in this case) how many off-hand attacks can the Kasatha make each round?

I would say 4, but at a penalty of -4/-4/-4/-4 to the BAB.
If all are light weapons reduce this to all -2. Can we get a Dev to just make a quick comment on this?

Please FAQ

You have one primary hand and three off-hands. So you could make four attacks, three of which would be off-hand attacks.


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ElementalXX wrote:
The existance of these discussions prove something in the rules is not clear

That's actually not true. I've seen plenty of discussions where the rules were quite explicit yet debate continued.


Fromper wrote:


And when we wanted to play, we had to walk 3 miles through the snow. Uphill! Both ways!

Try to tell kids that today, and they won't believe you.


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Nefreet wrote:
This is why I've never bought a Hat of Disguise, and I never understood why everyone thought so highly of them. The duration makes it an undesirable item, since, for one round every 10 minutes, your disguise is blown.

It's for the true master of disguise. You use a mundane disguise to mask your true appearance. Then the Hat of Disguise allows you to drop magical disguises on top of your mundane disguise. That way, even when people see thru your disguise, they are simply seeing another disguise.


Wildblooded is an archetype, not a bloodline.

FAQ wrote:

Sorcerer, Crossblooded and Wildblooded: Can I take both of these archetypes for the same character?

No, because the archetype rules say none of the alternate class features can replace or alter the same class feature from the class as another alternate class feature. Because the crossblooded and wildblooded sorcerer archetypes both alter the bloodline arcana and bloodline powers, they aren't compatible archetypes.

Wildblooded is an archetype that modifies a bloodline.

PRD wrote:

Wildblooded (Archetype)

A wildblooded sorcerer has a mutated version of a more common bloodline, with one arcana and at least one bloodline power that are different from those of an unmutated bloodline. When creating a wildblooded sorcerer, select an existing bloodline, then select one of the following mutated bloodlines associated with that bloodline. Use the normal bloodline's class skill, bonus spells, and bonus feats, and the mutated bloodline's bloodline arcana. Use the normal bloodline's bloodline powers, except when the mutated bloodline replaces one of those powers.


Mathius wrote:

Asking again

What about EH on bloodline that you have mutated with a level in sorc?
Can I use this tactic to MC away from wildblooded bloodline and still have it advance?

You cannot have EH for a bloodline you already have.


thejeff wrote:

Invisibility is closer to Continuous price: 20,000gp for the item

2(level spell)* 3(caster level)*2000gp *2 (min/level) = 24,000gp

Command word would be:
2(level spell)* 3(caster level)*1800 = 10800gp

Isn't there an increased cost for using the ring slot? (Since you have two.)


Sissyl wrote:
A fan WILL buy. Obligation or no.

Even if they DON'T have the money?


Do the fans owe the author? If the author is obligated to keep writing then is the fan obligated to keep buying?


I think RAW it clearly doesn't work. The Wildblooded archetype replaces bloodline powers that someone trying to take EH (Blank) does not have. I don't think RAI is there either because of the Wildblooded/Crossblooded FAQ. Sylvan obviously shouldn't work as you're replacing a power and an arcana; and as someone said earlier, "why should it not work for one but work for the others?" That's not to say it's overpowered or unbalanced, I just don't think the rules are there to allow it to work.


I think if the intent was for reloading advanced firearms to be a free action, then it would simply be written as a free action. I see no reason for them to write it as a move action and then have the only usable ammo drop it to a free action. That seems needlessly complex.


PRD wrote:
Animal Companion (Ex): You gain an animal companion. Your effective druid level for this ability is equal to your sorcerer level – 3 (minimum 1st). This bloodline power counts as your bloodline arcana and also replaces laughing touch.

How does the mutated bloodline replace a bloodline power the character does not have?


Rogue (Skulking Slayer/Scout) with Cleave feats and Surprise Follow Through. Guaranteed sneak attacks.


Wildblooded is an archetype. Even if you allowed it, the Sylvan bloodline should be excluded as it replaces the bloodline power and the arcana. Eldritch Heritage only gives you the bloodline power.


joeyfixit wrote:


I personally wouldn't bother with TWF when I can Rapid Shot,

You can take both...


No, that means actual movement, not move actions.


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Atarlost wrote:

The GM is wrong because the official rules are someone at Paizo engaging in unacceptable passive aggressive behavior.

Any GM who is not a passive aggressive douche will ignore these rules just like they do not act on the rules legal possibility that a cleric's god may just up and die for reasons unknown in the middle of the campaign or decide that today all they get is (heightened) stabilize in all of their slots.

You've made a very valid and reasoned argument.


Darkholme wrote:
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
So is the argument that the DM is wrong because the official rules are too weak? Would a DM be wrong to let a character play a rogue/monk multiclass? Should he just say no? Change the rules to make the combo more powerful?

The argument is that the (optional) game mechanics the GM is using make the character sufficiently terrible, that I would legitimately view it as an insult to have that be presented to me as though the GM thought it was actually reasonable. (again, unless everyone is playing as children with the same rules).

So it's the GM's fault the official rules are considered terrible? Should the GM rewrite the kids rules before or after he scours all 3pp material for the rogue/monk player?


ElementalXX wrote:

Compare to...

Player: I want to roleplay a child wizard
DM: Sorry no, no childs in my campaign, it would spoil the adventure's feeling
Player: oh dang it, ok i guess ill have to play something else

And then how many posters would be attacking the DM for not allowing the player' character concept?


ElementalXX wrote:
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
So is the argument that the DM is wrong because the official rules are too weak? Would a DM be wrong to let a character play a rogue/monk multiclass? Should he just say no? Change the rules to make the combo more powerful?

A dm cant be wrong.

A dm can be good, bad, passive agressive, fair, be a douce or just be annoying, but no, a dm cant be wrong. Its one of the fundamentals of the system.

The question is, is playing an adept fun? The op has stated that he doesnt find it fun. Personally i wouldnt play with a dm who forces me to play the "samurai" class because my pcs background says he is a samurai.

The DM isn't forcing anyone to do anything that I could tell. The OP wanted to play as a child, the DM said, "ok, here are the rules for kids," and now because the OP doesn't like the official rules, the DM is a "passive aggressive douche." My question is, What other weak rules is the DM obligated to change for a player in order to not be those things?


So is the argument that the DM is wrong because the official rules are too weak? Would a DM be wrong to let a character play a rogue/monk multiclass? Should he just say no? Change the rules to make the combo more powerful?


Tom Sampson wrote:

No, he shouldn't.

If a character gets hit by 3 different spells in 1 round, he can choose to voluntarily fail his save to his friend's spell while still resisting his enemies' spells.

He could not selectively lower his Spell Resistance.


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So no talking about douches in movie theaters in a thread titled Douches In Movie Theaters? Why not just lock the thread?


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I would say you're not dodging 19 different attacks but rather everything that comes your way. Imagine trying to catch one out of twenty things that come at you in a span of 6 seconds.

As to the other point, would you allow a fighter to bring an NPC whose sole purpose was to bull rush them into place for a full attack every round?


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Lamontius wrote:

differentiating that MMO players are not "normal gamers" really bothers me

you are not better or special because you use pencils and dice instead of a keyboard and mouse

Maybe you're not...


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First World Problems, amirite?


AndIMustMask wrote:
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
deuxhero wrote:
If they errata it, I'd prefer to see it restricted to weapons you can flurry with, not just unarmed strikes.
The trouble is, with the right class or ability, that is all weapons.
even if it was unarmed-strike specific, wouldn't martial versatility do the exact same thing to make it applicable to any weapon?

That would still restrict it to just close weapons, wouldn't it. (And require you to be a 4th level human fighter or equivalent.)


fretgod99 wrote:
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
fretgod99 wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Quote:
A creature that takes a direct hit from a healing bomb is healed as if she had imbibed the infusion or potion used to create the bomb.
It uses the dice of the potion/extract, not the bomb.
Precisely this. Instead of having one person drink a potion/infusion, you chuck it at a group of people. The person it hits is treated as having drank the potion/infusion (e.g., 1d8 + CL up to 5 for CLW). People in the splash radius are treated as if they drank the potion/infusion and rolled all 1s on the dice.
Has anyone said otherwise?
There were questions or comments upthread about whether it would scale with level like regular bomb damage and whether it would also apply INT modifier like regular bombs typically do.

Alchemists add their Int to any splash weapons, not just bombs. I agree those bonuses wouldn't apply to healing someone but I don't see why they wouldn't apply to damaging someone (undead or dhampir or whatever). It splashes and is still a bomb.

Edit: no one asked if it scaled by level (or at least not that I saw in my quick re-read thru) but whether a FCB of +1/2 levels would apply.


fretgod99 wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Quote:
A creature that takes a direct hit from a healing bomb is healed as if she had imbibed the infusion or potion used to create the bomb.
It uses the dice of the potion/extract, not the bomb.
Precisely this. Instead of having one person drink a potion/infusion, you chuck it at a group of people. The person it hits is treated as having drank the potion/infusion (e.g., 1d8 + CL up to 5 for CLW). People in the splash radius are treated as if they drank the potion/infusion and rolled all 1s on the dice.

Has anyone said otherwise?


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Is it cool to hang out with eight year olds, now? Man, I must be getting old.


It is not dealing "heal damage." It is healing damage (and this is the important part -->) instead of dealing damage. Hard to get more explicit than that.


Don't know the character but what you described could fit an alchemist. (Infused curatives for healing, bombs for blasting, extracts for magic...) Dagger of Doubling is all the reason you need to use a dagger!


Zwordsman wrote:
3) It's still a splash weapon and a bomb and it says Heal damage. so the int bonus and the level ups apply.

Not when healing his allies (or himself).

Quote:

from d20 (so maybe not the same wording as book?)

Healing bomb
Benefit: When the alchemist creates a bomb, he can choose to have it heal damage instead of dealing it. Creating a healing bomb requires the alchemist to expend an infused extract or potion containing a cure spell. A creature that takes a direct hit from a healing bomb is healed as if she had imbibed the infusion or potion used to create the bomb. Creatures in the splash radius are healed for the minimum amount of damage the cure spell is capable of healing. A healing bomb damages undead instead of healing them.

I guess it would apply to undead (but I think you'd be better off with holy water).


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deuxhero wrote:
If they errata it, I'd prefer to see it restricted to weapons you can flurry with, not just unarmed strikes.

The trouble is, with the right class or ability, that is all weapons.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
Thomas Long 175 wrote:
For the purpose of basic game theory, the person in question gains nothing by moving
On the contrary -- his action is noticed by others around him (because it is a winning strategy for them to notice who cooperates and who does not). He stands to gain a considerably increased future likelihood of people acting on his behalf in expectation of assumed mutually-beneficial quid pro quo arrangements, not only from Fakey, but from casual observers.

Or others notice his capitulation and decide he still has nicer seats then they do so they ask him to change seats with them. And why wouldn't he? They are only asking him to move one seat, it's not like you have to take any previous action into account.


Put Endless Ammunition on your repeating crossbow and never reload again.

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