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Many gypsies will not be working with hands of 5 cards. 5 card hands are primarily featured in archetypes (Secrets of Card & Salt).

Gypsies with archetypes can draw up to 5 cards as a standard action, plus they can draw a card as a swift action once per turn.

A vanilla gypsy with no auguries can only draw one card per turn as a swift action, and must discard it at the end of her turn. There are auguries that manipulate this, though (Twist of Fate grants the ability to draw a card as a move action, Broadened Horizons grants the ability to hold a card for 1 turn before discarding it if it isn't foretold, etc.).

Let me know if that doesn't help!

matlouraph wrote:


i ve got your product and it is a great pleasure to play a ritualist.

rituals are more powerful than revelevation of the oracle per example but why it doesn't exist a feat like : extra ritual giving a free ritual ?

thank you and go on ;)

Glad you're enjoying the class!

There's no additional ritual known feat to maintain balance and increase choice.

Some rituals were designed to be less applicable but more powerful than others so that players could choose between shining brightly (Higher Calling) or shining frequently (Siphoned Power). Racking up lots of rituals known could result in a character with very powerful solutions to a wide array of problems, exceeding the power curve and potentially marginalizing other party members (especially other support characters, who we strive to encourage rather than discourage). It also seems like it would present an optimal strategy as I struggle to think of any feat that could compete with its effectiveness or fun (especially at low levels), essentially reducing the player's choices - you begin with 2 rituals but can't choose a feat at level 1 (or whatever level we set the feat requirement to).

That said, I can imagine situations where a ritualist might not know enough rituals (very high magic campaigns, a table full of power gamers, build choices ill-suited to the setting, etc.), but I think the appropriate solution in those cases would be granting an additional ritual known as a default class feature rather than taxing a feat for the same effect.

Grant Parrish wrote:

I was however confused by some of the wording in regards to the deck. It says once a card it drawn it must be used or discarded in that round (clear enough) but the verbiage says that once a card is discarded the magic stops functioning... That is where I get a little confused.

For a spell like magic missile there isn't really any problem: you shoot, hit, damage, done. Victory to the gypsy!

For a spell like Mage armor which operates on the idea of an hour per caster level doesn't this wording of: ceases to function until the next day mean that Mage armor only works for one round? If so would you say that spells with a permanent effect (bestow curse) would also only work for one round?

A card ceases to function once a gypsy discards it, but a spell that she used the card to start casting continues to function.

Example 1: A level 3 gypsy draws a card with mage armor on it. She uses the card to cast mage armor on herself, then she discards the card. She benefits from mage armor for 3 hours as normal. However, if she picks up that same card and tries to cast mage armor again, nothing happens because the card stopped functioning when it was discarded. She can't cast mage armor by using that card again until she shuffles it into her deck the following day.

Example 2: A level 3 gypsy draws a card with sleep on it. She uses the card to start casting sleep, which takes 1 round, then she discards the card. She continues to cast sleep. On her next turn, she completes the spell and it puts 2 goblins to sleep. The goblins continue to sleep for 3 minutes. However, that card cannot be used to cast sleep again until shuffled into her deck the following day.

Please let me know if you are still confused or have any questions. I'm always happy to help!

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havoc xiii wrote:
Will we be getting Secrets of Sword & String soon?

It's coming later this year.

I am deeply sorry that you guys have to wait so long for the expansion, but we're working hard to give everyone a bunch of free upgrades to our existing products before we unleash our next subscription run.

Aleron wrote:
I keep getting my hopes up every time I see this thread get bumped.

Secrets of Sword & String is our 2nd or 3rd pending release. You can safely reserve your hopes until the advent of another Dreadfox product.

Oliver Volland wrote:
I hope [the gypsy]'ll be also covered with Herolab...

Yes - this is among the free upgrades we're working on.

xevious573 wrote:
... I was hoping for something on being able to take [Partnered Blade] out of the class to make the class pure martial without any mystical elements.

Yes - this is definitely happening.

Endzeitgeist wrote:
Primarily, though, I think the class would immensely benefit from more sword arts.

Yes - this is also happening.

However, as with the ritualist, we feel like we built a house of cards in balancing a multitude of competitive choices within a unique mechanic. In order to preserve that balance, we will probably be more conservative with the number of new sword arts than some players would like. As always, we're working hard to provide as much flavor as possible without detracting from balance.

havoc xiii wrote:
Do you have to be in combat with the target of Tactical Repartee?

You can use tactical repartee even if you're not in combat. You just need to goad your intended target into responding twice to the same topic, then you can follow up with something disconcerting and surprise them with a sequitur.

Roleplaying. Now with free sequiturs.

It's never too early to ask! But our next run of releases still isn't ready.

theneofish wrote:
Is there any update on Hero Lab files for this (and other Dreadfox Games) supplement? As per usual with a lot of 3PP products, I see something that looks very interesting, and has excellent reviews, but using it is completely impractical for us - I have two dyslexic players who can't read through lots of text either to establish a character or work out levelling up options. I'd love to offer this class on a trial basis, but Hero Lab is a must have.

I'd be happy to send you the swordmaster's working hero lab file so that you can gauge its practicality for your group. Our other classes use a very similar interface.

I've sent you a PM requesting your email address.

havoc xiii wrote:
When do we get to see Secrets of Sword & String? Or is those one of those things that if you told us you'd have to kill us?

The Bad News: The expansion is still a few months away.

The Good News: It's getting a thorough QA treatment.

Sadly, no save is required for such nebulous news, but it's the best I can do for now.

10 new spells coming to each grimoire soon!

Of all our grimoires, this one might have been the most fun to supplement.

Here's a sneak peak...

Ancestral Bones:

Ancestral Bones
School necromancy; Level cleric 1, druid 1, inquisitor 1, witch 1
Casting Time 1 minute
Components V, S, F (6 dice carved from the bones of your ancestors worth 1 gp each)
Range personal
Target you
Duration instantaneous

Your ancestors speak to you through dice carved from their remains. Specify one event or situation that has already occurred or is already in effect, then roll 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 1d10, 1d12 and 1d20. If you can reach at least three results of 3 or 7, you can interpret a clue from your ancestors regarding the event or situation. Die results can be added to or subtracted from each other to reach a result of 3 or 7, but an individual die can only apply once per casting of ancestral bones. For instance, a result of 2, 2, 3, 7, 11 and 17 could apply as one result of 3 (3) plus two results of 7 (7, 11 - 2 - 2). Clues are never given in the form of direct information, but rather a means of acquiring relevant and useful information. Common clues include a person of interest or a location that holds a relevant secret.

You can cast this spell multiple times with regards to one event or situation, so long as each instance is cast within 1 minute of the previous instance. However, subsequent castings do not allow you to roll again; they allow you to reroll any number of dice and will only reveal a clue if all six dice can be used to reach at least three results of 3 or 7.

Effects that alter a spell’s numeric variables have no effect on ancestral bones.

havoc xiii wrote:
If you were to give a tiefling a favored class bonus what would it be?

Add +1/2 to sword art damage when denying your target his Dexterity modifier to AC.

In case your GM requires something more traditional, the option above also works. The critical threat range option is much better overall (more balanced, scales more smoothly, never becomes obsolete and synergizes well with many sequiturs and finishers), but it might be a little too unusual or messy for some tastes.

havoc xiii wrote:
If you were to give a tiefling a favored class bonus what would it be?

Add +1 the critical threat range of swords when performing a sword art that does not allow a target to use his Dexterity modifier to AC. This bonus is always additive (it never increases, even if your critical threat range is doubled). Add 3 as a denominator below future selections of this bonus each time it increases the critical threat range of swords by 1 (i.e. +1 at 1st level, +1/3 at 2nd, 3rd and 4th level, +1/6 at 5th through 10th level and +1/9 at 11th through 19th level, if chosen every level).

Oops, meant to say 9. Must have 9 basic sword arts to gain an advanced sword art.

havoc xiii wrote:
So piranha strike works with non-light weapons?

Yes (in this case)!

By RAW, Piranha Strike only applies to light weapons. But we're making Piranha Strike incompatible with sword art damage as soon as Secrets of Sword & String goes live. We're replacing it with a new feat that has a similar effect, except it works with swords of any weight and only applies to sword art damage. A scaling -1 penalty to attack, +2 bonus to damage with any sword during sword arts at the cost of 1 feat is the intended effect, but in the short-term, you'll have to convince your GM of this. Developer post + GM treats should do the trick ;)

havoc xiii wrote:
Also can a Swormaster trade ou the fundamental sword arts? Like misdirection for subtle misdirection?


You can have a completely customized selection of sword arts at level 4 by replacing a fundamental sword art at levels 2, 3 and 4.

But you can only exchange sword arts for sword arts and advanced sword arts for advanced sword arts. Misdirection can't be exchanged for subtle misdirection, but it can be exchanged for any "normal tier" sword art. In other words, you must always have 8 basic sword arts in order to gain an advanced sword art.

Aleron wrote:
Power Attack it says doesn't work, is it the same for Piranha Strike?

2) Piranha Strike applies to sword arts, and Tactful Strikes counts as Weapon Finesse for the purpose of its prerequisites.

We're working on a smoother way to incorporate the same effect. But those playing / building the class before we finish can lean on the above for the time being.

Aleron wrote:

Late comer to this, but darn do I love this class! Just fantastic! Had a few things I wanted to clarify quickly:

1) When it says you get 1-1/2 times Dex bonus to damage when using a two handed that only for weapons like the greatsword (classified as two handed and must be used in two hands) or weapons you can wield in two hands (like katana for example) and you get that bonus when doing so?

2) Power Attack it says doesn't work, is it the same for Piranha Strike?

Thanks for publishing this!

Glad you like the class.

1) What Endzeitgeist said. It works just like Strength, but is specific to sword arts (you must actively use 2 hands to add 1-1/2 times your Dex).

2) Great question. This didn't come up in playtests, and I can't recall that we ever discussed it. It's going to take me a couple of days to explore, but I'll look into it and have a definitive answer for you ASAP. Definitely adding this to the FAQ.

TOZ wrote:
Hmm, Hero Lab support?

Soon we'll offer Hero Lab support for all of our products. It's one of the things coming in our huge update.

Hero Lab file sent! Happy birthday :)

It's not 100% finished, but the functionality is all there. We just need to trim some of the scripting fat.

Luthorne wrote:
... I noticed that possess object is listed both as a 4th-level spell and as a 5th-level spell for the Puppetmaster. Mind if I ask which is correct?

Possess object should be 4th level.

Another great catch! More presents for you!

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havoc xiii wrote:
Dreadfox Games wrote:

havoc xiii wrote:
Is there a chance the Swordmaster is useable on Hero Lab?
Soon. Before 2014 (don't have an exact date yet...).
Awesome! You know what'd really be awesome? If it came out on 9/25 my birthday. ;)

No promises, but I've moved a few things around to try and manage a little present for you.

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Liz Courts wrote:
eakratz wrote:
I just purchased the pdf and noticed that their is not a watermark on it listing the order number, date, and my email address. Is that a glitch?
No. The publisher has opted not to use the watermarking feature on the PDF.


Long story short, I'm a big believer in promoting goodwill between a developer and their audience rather than trying to strong-arm piracy :)

havoc xiii wrote:
Shadowglide (Su): ... he may, when in dim or less lighting, move 10 feet whenever taking the “5-foot step” action.

By RAW, this doesn't apply to sword arts.

By RAI, I would definitely apply it to sword arts. It reads like it was written to exclude both 5-foot steps granted by external sources (spells, allied abilities, etc.) and movement that covers more than 5 feet (regular move actions). But it suits my sense of continuity that as long as the character with Shadowglide is providing a direct, physical impetus for his own 5-foot step, it should apply regardless of the type of action that step takes. That's just my opinion, but it's definitely worth discussing with your GM (and possibly the developer of Shadowglide, as well).

havoc xiii wrote:
Is there a chance the Swordmaster is useable on Hero Lab?

Soon. Before 2014 (don't have an exact date yet...).

havoc xiii wrote:
Errr another question if you have a feat/ability/whatever that turns a 5ft step into 10ft does it affect the once given by this class?

Can you give me an example? It'll depend on the wording of the ability that modifies 5 ft. steps. We didn't know of any within Pathfinder at the time that the swordmaster was created, but I don't doubt that one exists.

havoc xiii wrote:
can sword arts count for the "any attack" clause some have?

No. "Unless otherwise stated, only one sword art can be performed at a time."

"Action: Any attack" means a sword art can be made as part of a full-attack, as an attack action, as an attack of opportunity, as an attack granted by a spell or effect, etc., but only if you're not already performing a sword art with that action.

Tactical repartee and cunning swordplay are the only exceptions I can think of (their descriptions both state otherwise).

kevin_video wrote:
This book's pretty good. Just one question though. Why is the bee CR 0? I thought that number couldn't exist. Is it closer to CR 1/8?

Yes! The bee should be CR 1/8.

That's one of the changes coming in our big update. Not all of the grimoires are ready, though, and we want to update everything at once - the bee has to sit tight a little bit longer.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. PM me your email address and I'll send you a present :)

havoc xiii wrote:
One more question regarding Assault. Does every attack need a fresh target or could you hit one target 5 times drop him and switch to a new one or is it more like a mop up attack when you e got 5 enemy left all at fairly low hitpoints?

Every attack needs a fresh target.

Luthorne wrote:
The other odd thing I noticed a bit afterwards, though this might be purposeful? is that the puppetmaster spell list has share language (communal) as a 2nd level spell, but doesn't get the original share language spell, which seems a little odd to me. Was it an oversight one way or the other, or just a puppetmaster peculiarity?

It was deliberate.

We don't want puppetmasters stealing bards' thunder (in this case, communicating with anyone at 1st-3rd level, which only the bard can do and is kind of a big deal).

Puppetmasters have a lot at 1st level; bards have precious little (before bardic performance / knowledge picks up and their favorable spell levels really set in). We didn't want to raid one of the only real cookies in their low level cookie jar. I know it seems awkward, but we place a lot of emphasis on not letting our classes steal another class's thunder.

Luthorne wrote:
Puppetmaster wrote:
Each time it is selected (including the first), the saving throw DC of the poison increases by 1, the size of the damage die increases by half a step (the second selection increases the die to 1d3, the fourth selection increases the die to 1d4, the eighth selections increases the die to 1d6) and the duration increases by half a round.
Is that supposed to read 'eighth selections', or is that supposed to be 'fifth selection'? It seems to make more sense as the latter, but it's possible I'm just missing something!

It now reads:

Puppetmaster wrote:
Each time it is selected (including the first), the saving throw DC of the poison increases by 1, the size of the damage die increases by half of one (the second selection increases the die to 1d3, the fourth selection increases the die to 1d4, the eighth selection increases the die to 1d6) and the duration increases by half a round.

Eighth's consecutive consonants must have blinded me to that stray "s". Also, several months removed from this project, the word "step" seems very misleading because it implies that the die should jump straight to d6 at 6, d8 at 8 and d10 at 10, which is not the case (we found even a d8 to be a bit too extreme in the 2nd beta). Hopefully half of one is more clear.

Luthorne wrote:
Also, a minor typo I noticed, in the Base Material table, for Wood, it says the flaw is "Gains vulneraility to fire" instead of vulnerability.


Good catches. PM me your email address and I'll send you a little thank you present.

Endzeitgeist wrote:

For what it's worth, I have a swordmaster in my game... I still, after more than a year of active gaming experience, stand by the review: This class rocks incredibly hard.

Wasn't there an expansion in the pipeline? "Secrets of Sword and String", if I recall correctly?

Glad to hear it!

There is, although it's pretty deep in the pipeline right now. Other work has gotten in the way (meticulous improvements to our existing body of work before we take it to print), but we will definitely expand the swordmaster and the puppetmaster. Secrets of Sword and String should be third or fourth in line as soon as our revisions are finished.

havoc xiii wrote:
Overwhelming Assault, the attacks do they use normal iteratives or are all the attacks at your highest BAB?

They're all made at the swordmaster's highest BAB. Also, the number of attacks a swordmaster can make during Overwhelming Assault is not limited by his BAB. That is, if he has 28 Dexterity, 9 unique targets and never misses, he could make 9 attacks.

How's the class working out for you so far?

I'm glad to see that people are enjoying the puppetmaster so much. Its development took twice as long as any of our other classes, so it makes us very happy to see that work pay off.

More importantly, thanks for all of the constructive feedback so far! We're always starving for more, especially of the post-play variety.

p.s. We're plotting a system of player appreciation. It'll be released with the rest of our prep-for-print improvements (which are taking much longer than anticipated...).

You get to choose.

Upon a successful bull rush, "You can move with the target if you wish but you must have the available movement to do so."

Lareg wrote:
Just a minor issue I noticed. Manipulator’s Wiles is described at occurring at 2nd, 6th, 12th, 14th, and 18th level. The puppetmaster table lists the ability at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th. I'm assuming the 12th is a typo.

The table is correct, the text is incorrect.

An updated file has been submitted to Paizo and should be available for download very soon. It's also optimized for display on tablets.

Thanks for letting us know!

havoc xiii wrote:
What exactly does Appel do....?

Mechanically: It enables a sequitur. It's a conservative opener that trades your move action for a 100% chance to advance the compound, but has no additional effect.

Thematically: It's a short and quick step that distracts your opponent, breaking their guard enough for you to advance. Here and here are videos of it in practice.

Lareg wrote:
Considering the high quality of the work put into class, I was curious why there ended up being columns with sections that are blank? Did some art fall through?

If you are viewing the PDF on a tablet, then yes, some art is disappearing.

There is a compatibility issue with newer versions of Adobe Acrobat and most tablets. We have resolved the issue and have an updated version in-house that should go live very soon. We're working on a lot of brand-wide improvements and want to hold off on updating our live files until they're all finished because we don't like to spam updates.

Very good things loom on the horizon...

Chris Zank wrote:
Has anyone played a puppetmaster yet? If yes, how did it go?

I know mine are not valuable words from this perspective, but we play everything we develop in at least one campaign.

I loved my marionettes puppetmaster, and so did everyone else in my party.

havoc xiii wrote:
I was going to make a swordmaster who throws daggers as his semi "ranged" attack.

There are lots of ways to gain a solid ranged attack at level 1. You could be a tengu, gnome, half-elf or elf, or you could take the Heirloom Weapon trait. Only tengu or gnome will grant proficiency with multiple daggers, but half-elf could grant proficiency with starknives, which are pretty similar.

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Zenlike wrote:
Maybe I'm just missing it but why is the Int bonus to AC a deflection bonus instead of untyped? It's already stated that it doesn't stack with the Duelist's Canny Defense (untyped) ability, so it seems that all you are doing is limiting the Swordmaster's ability to use a deflection bonus from another source.

Short answer: Yes, this exactly.

Long answer:

It was untyped at first, but as we continued to playtest the class, we changed it. It was a simple solution for a lot of convoluted issues.

1) Nerf Maximum AC. We want swordmasters have a slightly higher AC and slightly fewer hit points than Strength-based fighters. Emphasis on slightly. This change reduces a swordmaster's maximum AC by 5. 5 points may seem insubstantial, but not so much when phrased as "a 25% chance to hit" - especially when that brings an epic monster down to just 5%. The bottom line is that the -5 AC cap makes a defending optimized swordmaster difficult for epic monsters to hit as opposed to untouchable (requiring an attack roll of ~17 instead of ~22 in most cases).

2) Encourage Active Play. Swordmasters can get huge bonuses to AC from sword arts. Active and dynamic play are the foundation of the class. The only 2 AC bonuses we have control over are the Int and sword art bonuses, and we didn't want to tone down the sword art bonuses in order to keep the class as dynamic as possible.

3) Reliable AC. Swordmasters would be very soft front-liners in low-magic campaigns without a secondary AC bonus. With only mundane items, Dexterity is a ~4 AC disadvantage to Strength. Again, we wanted swordmasters to have a higher AC and fewer hit points than most Strength-based fighters, so including a secondary armor feature was an important way to standardize those strengths and weaknesses across all campaigns.

4) Balanced Defenses. We wanted the Int bonus to apply a small buff to CMD and touch AC - two of the most important defenses - to help compensate for lower hit points. Circumstance, deflection and dodge were the only types that a) apply to both of these and b) could be sensibly derived from sharp swordsmanship. But, because of maximum AC issues, something had to give, and both circumstance and dodge bonuses always stack.

5) Reduce Dependence on The Big 6. Every player in their right mind buys a ring or protection if one is available. Deflection is the best bonus to AC (applies to AC, touch AC, flat-footed AC and CMD) and the ring is cheap for what it is. But it's terribly boring when every player buys the same 6 items, over and over again on every character. By putting this bonus at odds with a ring of protection, we gave swordmasters the option to free up some gold (and a ring slot) to explore new and more exciting items. Int also increases a swordmaster's damage in many cases, so it's not often optimal to ignore this feature, dump Int for Con and buy the ring at a net -1 AC anyway.

Ultimately, the change brought all swordmasters closer to the same place on the power curve, encouraged active play and made itemizing more fun.

havoc xiii wrote:
Just wondering but what exactly are the swordmaster's weapon proficiencies?

We used "swords" as opposed to a specific list to accommodate future Paizo material, 3.5 material and other 3pp material.

Definite Inclusions: cutlass, dogslicer, falchion, gladius, greatsword, longsword, rapier, scimitar, short sword, sword cane.

The GM is the final arbiter of additional inclusions. Some weapons straddle the fence between sword and something else (kukri comes to mind), making their inclusion a matter of opinion more than common sense. When in doubt, always consult the GM.

Adding this to our FAQs right now. Great question.

Orthos wrote:

Presuming of course you prefer Dex-based characters at all... I've always been more fond of a heavily-armored Strength-based smasher myself. Not my cup of tea, but at the very least interesting for those who do.

That said, if you're in to Dexy characters, this appears to do the job.

You make a really good point.

We hope you agree that the mechanics are clearly more fun; not necessarily the concept.

Dreadfox Games invites everyone familiar with Pathfinder or previous editions of D&D to the open playtest of Players as Feature Creatures.

There are still 2 spaces available at this playtest.

Playtesters get:

  • Free food
  • A credit on the product tested (the top 2 feedback contributors are credited as designers and the rest as playtesters)
  • A free copy of any Dreadfox product

    Playtests are a lot of fun, and this product is particularly cool (it introduces rules to enable a player to assume the role of another player's animal companion, familiar or eidolon).

    If you live in L.A. and want to playtest but can't make these dates, get in touch with us and we'll send you information on future playtests.

    Email if you are interested.

  • apexut wrote:
    Really enjoying the class on first read through, I was struck by the breaking of the BAB/HD core rule of Pathfinder though, what made you choose to do that? Was it for flavor?

    The puppetmaster got a d8 hit die combined with a low BAB for a variety of reasons, but they're all mechanical in nature.

    In short, it was about making him play the way we wanted him to play.

    Hit Die: In terms of flavor, I wish we could give the puppetmaster a d6. But a d8 is as squishy as we can make a class without inherent defenses (especially a MAD one). With a serious dearth of mid-to-high level defensive spells (he has mage armor, but doesn't get stoneskin, fly, dimension door, etc.), he wouldn't last very long with a d6. He is very MAD (multi-attribute dependent), which means that, unlike sorcerers and wizards, he can't afford to spend a lot of ability score points on Constitution to compensate for a low hit die. And in most cases he will have a lower AC than a cleric or rogue, but he should be a higher priority target for intelligent enemies. Rod puppeteers in particular have to utilize tactical positioning, which would be a recipe for disaster if we coupled the poor defenses listed above with anything less than a d8. We don't want puppetmasters leading the charge against dragons, but we also don't want them to be too skittish to enjoy their abilities.

    BAB: This is low to encourage puppetmasters to be team players, regardless of their primary focus (i.e. even animist primaries). At low levels, when puppetmasters don't have enough Wonder Points to diversify their puppetry, BAB is fairly insubstantial. Ability scores and proficiencies are much bigger factors in chance to hit than BAB until level 4 or 5, which is why the puppetmaster has a number of excellent string-based proficiencies (to help carry animists and rod puppeteers caught without an appropriate story through low levels). At mid levels, we wanted to make it optimal for even animist primaries to spend a few Wonder Points in marionettes or rod puppets, so that every puppetmaster would benefit the entire table. A low BAB effectively phases out weapon attacks at mid levels, replacing those standard actions with spells, Use Magic Device checks or the use of a secondary puppetry style. That's exactly what we want - an optimized puppetmaster's standard actions to benefit other players. Even if a puppetmaster is adamant about sinking 100% of his Wonder Points into animism, a low BAB ensures that nets quickly become the best use of standard actions (because they target touch AC), which is ideal because tossing nets helps the party in a controller / leader capacity.

    We really want to include Shadow Puppets as well, but that will have to wait until Secrets of Sword & String (the swordmaster & puppetmaster expansion). Which has to wait until we've played, watched and talked about the classes for several months.

    We just didn't have enough time to tweak and balance a 4th style of puppetry.

    Cheapy wrote:
    If I'm not a huge fan of the summoner due to the Build Your Own Pet aspect and powergaming, what would make me like the puppetmaster?

    If you don't like complicated character builds, you won't like this class.

    If you don't like focusing on pets, you may very well like this class.

    You build your own puppetmaster, but you don't have to build your own pet (or allow players to do so). The focus is on the main character, and there are plenty of non-pet abilities to choose from.

    You get a certain number of Wonder Points based on your level. Almost all of your abilities are purchased with these. You can spend them however you like. There are three basic Puppetry Wonders, plus Miscellaneous Wonders:

    • Animism - A construct companion. It's powerful (better defense but worse offense than an eidolon) and strongly encourages imagination, but its ability to heal is very limited. If it dies, you can bring it back once per day, but repairs take a lot of in-game time and the animated doll becomes substantially weaker each time you bring it back (until you gain a level).

    • Marionettes - Actions through other creatures. You start with the ability to make a single attack through another creature as a full-round action, and get the ability to perform more diverse actions with a better action economy as you invest further.

    • Rod Puppets - Stories with an infinite number of uses per day that apply effects to all creatures within range (including enemies). There are some really unique effects to these; it doesn't play like your typical buffer because the effects are so exotic and you have to use them cannily to make them benefit allies more than enemies.

    • Miscellaneous - Includes spells known and a handful of extremely unique features.

    I think that this class encourages role playing much more than it encourages power gaming, but for those players who can't help it, it's a great choice. Instead of 1 player running away with the game and making everyone else feel weak, an optimized puppetmaster helps every player contribute and makes everybody feel like their character is awesome.

    How to navigate the PDF:

    Click the name of a spell to travel to that spell's page on

    Thanks, Liz!

    Subscribe at during January, 2013 and save 20% with zero commitment!

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    icrywolf wrote:
    I recently bought the supplement from dreadfox games, and... i would love some adivce

    TreantMonk is currently working on a guide for the gypsy. Please email us - - and I will be happy to send you the rough draft.

    Buffer / Debuffer is a safe and reliable theme, though not the most powerful (which is not to say that it is weak, just relatively less powerful than a few less reliable or more challenging themes). We rank it 5th out of 9 themes in terms of power (behind burst, versatile, enchanter and healer) and TreantMonk seems to rank it 5th out of 9 as well (seemingly behind enchanter, versatile, shapechanger and debuffer). Ultimately, the optimal build depends on your group, your GM and your skill level.

    The following questions can help you determine the most effective build for you:

    -How many "mandatory" spells will be provided by your party?
    -How many encounters do you face in an average day?
    -How many creatures do you tend to face that are immune to Fortitude saves or mind-affecting effects?
    -How effectively can you improvise a cunning use for a "wild card" spell like shadow conjuration or limited wish (at a moment's notice)?
    -How well can you keep track of what spells remain in your deck?

    icrywolf wrote:
    side question the gypsy cards are all considerd divine would the feat spell focus divination work on all my cards even if they are not normaly divination school?


    But there are two auguries that add +1 to the DC of all of a gypsy's cards: Cast In Stone (vanilla) and Foretold in Legends (expansion - Secrets of Card & Salt).

    Cheapy wrote:
    you can't easily use wands, staves, scrolls, etc.

    This was very true prior to July, but the gypsy gained UMD as a class skill and a +8 bonus to UMD checks related to 1 class's spell list (at level 3) in an update issued in July. This means that at level 3, the gypsy is looking at +14 UMD with regards to a single spell list (assuming 10 Cha, no UMD traits, feats or auguries and 3 ranks in UMD), so a roll of 6 is required to activate a wand. This makes most gypsies more likely to activate a wand than hit with a ranged weapon (though exceptions do exist - archery gypsies can be surprisingly effective if the player sets out with that purpose in mind).

    We still have 1 seat available for the 11/25 playtest of the puppetmaster.

    Playtesters get:

  • Free food
  • A credit on the product tested (the top 2 feedback contributors are credited as designers and the rest as playtesters)
  • A free copy of any Dreadfox product

    The playtest will occur on Sunday, November 25th from 12:00 - 6:00.

    Playtesters always have a lot of fun and it's a cool experience to take part in the development process. If you live in L.A. and want to playtest with Dreadfox but can't make this date, get in touch with us and we'll send you information on future playtests.

    Email if you are interested.

  • The Gypsy turns spellcasting into a card game. I don't know if the card game mechanics are a selling point or deterrent for you, but I wanted to help you make the most informed decision possible.

    We are currently working on several pregen decks for the gypsy (which should benefit GMs and novice card game players the most). The development of these pregens is taking longer than expected (we are consulting with a number of renowned "power gamers" and [busy gamers x labor of love = slow response times]), but I would be happy to advance you a prototype of a build if you tell me the level and general tendency you are going for (generalist, blaster, buffer, healer, etc.).

    LazarX wrote:
    You mean having Dervish Dance wasn't enough?

    It was not.

    The swordmaster was an opportunity to do a lot of really cool things (listed in the design goals).

    Among our goals was make Dexterity a viable option for melee combatants. Even with Dervish Dance, Dexterity-based melee combatants are second class citizens. Having to choose between foregoing Power Attack (-50% damage in many cases) or wasting 3 ability score points, foregoing 2-handed and dual wielding damage while not using a shield and spending 2 feats on basic functionality combine to make Dexterity-based melee combatants much weaker than equivalent Strength-based melee combatants. The perks (+10 ft. speed, skill bonuses, high initiative, high Reflex) don't compensate enough to make the trade-off worthwhile mechanically in most cases, and the scimitar restriction renders it a poor choice for many characters in terms of flavor.

    The swordmaster makes Dexterity and Strength competitive with each other. Neither a Dexterity-based swordmaster or a Strength-based fighter is clearly better than the other. We hope you will agree, however, that the Dexterity-based swordmaster is clearly more fun to play.

    Cheapy wrote:
    But I am interested in seeing how you pulled this off and may recommend it to those who are a fan of that.

    This is our first product to be requested by 100% of its playtesters (every playtester gets any Dreadfox product for free after an open playtest).

    Hopefully that is an indication of responses to come.

    How to navigate the PDF:

    Click a sword art's type at the top of its description (opener, sequitur, finisher) to travel to that section of the sword art table.
    Click the name of a sword art in the sword art table to travel to that sword art's description.

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