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Dragonchess Player's page

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber. 2,653 posts (2,655 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 alias.

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(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

Paladin 3/Oracle (Life) 3/Holy Vindicator
Smite Evil (even though the damage is limited), Divine Grace, Aura of Courage, and Divine Health from paladin levels
Take the Channel revelation
Holy Vindicator boosts Channel and is a full BAB, 3/4 spell progression PrC

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

Note the sentence in the second paragraph of the Fused Eidolon class ability (Ultimate Magic, pg. 80): "The synthesist also gains access to the eidolon's special abilities and the eidolon's evolutions." Then note Table 2-9 Eidolon Base Statistics in the Advanced Player's Guide: The eidolon of a 1st level summoner gains the special abilities darkvision, link, and share spells. The description of the link special ability on pg. 58 of the Advanced Player's Guide states: "...the summoner and his eidolon share magic item slots. For example, if the summoner is wearing a ring, his eidolon can wear no more than one ring. In case of a conflict, the items worn by the summoner remain active, and those used by the eidolon become dormant. The eidolon must possess the appropriate appendage to utilize a magic item."

There is nothing preventing the summoner from removing a magical belt, summoning his fused eidolon, and then replacing the belt so that the fused eidolon receives the benefit of the physical ability boost. A lenient interpretation of "While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist uses the eidolon's physical ability scores..." and "While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist can use all his own abilities and gear," would allow the summoner to increase the eidolon's physical ability scores without having to remove the belt and then replace it. Of course, this would then make the belt immune from being sundered/otherwise targeted while fused with the eidolon, so it might be more powerful than some GMs are comfortable with.

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

Banjax wrote:

If you look at the second example on page 165 the Selected Ice Blast Life Leech it starts off as a level 6 spell but says

"Ultimate Magic wrote:
A sorcerer or wizard can boost the target word to make this spell affect multiple targets but doing so increases the spell's overall level to 9

The Selected targetting word does have a different wording to its boost effect in that it says "This boosted target word increases the level of all the effect words in the spell by 3 levels" compared to the "boosting this effect word increases its level by X" which all the others have, I just would have expected boost to affect all the targetting words in the same way.

I suppose Selected might have its own rules due to the fact that there are a significant number of effects which you just cant use with words like burst, cone or barrier so being able to extend them out to multiple targets is a huge boost to them which would come with a corresponding level increase but you could argue that doubling the radius of the burst spell ought to come at the same cost as you can use that to hit more targets.

A boost selected wordspell is very powerful: one target per caster level, without a limit other than "no two of which can be more than 30 feet apart." No chance of allies being caught in an area.

Ice blast and life leech are both 4th-level effect words. A boost selected ice blast life leech would raise both effect words to 7th-level. Per Table 4-1: Effect Word Combinations, that's a 9th-level wordspell.

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

Some "piratey" concepts that I've fleshed out 1st level versions of (I like building characters; so what):
Half-Orc (Bestial, Chain Fighter, Scavenger) Alchemist (Beastmorph Vivisectionist); feral melee/tripper
Half-Elf (Arcane Training (Sorcerer)) Druid (Aquatic Druid); Storms Domain; 13 Cha, use Adaptability for Skill Focus (Diplomacy), Ease of Faith trait, Eldritch Heritage (Serpentine bloodline) at 3rd
or
Half-Orc (Plagueborn) Alchemist (Preservationist Reanimator); Planar Preservationist at 3rd, Spell Focus (Necromancy) at 5th, and Skeleton Summoner at 7th
Half-Elf (Water Child) Druid (Shark Shaman Tempest Druid*); Aquatic Domain, Bully trait
and
Human Monk (Hungry Ghost Monk Master of Many Styles Monk of the Sacred Mountain Qinggong Monk); +1/4 to ki pool each level; Dragon Style (bonus), Improved Grapple, Snapping Turtle Style
Human (Heart of the Wilderness) Ranger (Infiltrator Skirmisher Trophy Hunter)

Human (Heart of the Fields; +1/2 per level on Profession (Sailor) checks) Barbarian (Sea Reaver)
Gnome (Gift of Tongues, Magical Linguist) Bard (Sea Singer)
Human Rogue (Pirate Scout); +1/6 rogue talent each level; 13 Int, Fast Talker trait, Combat Expertise, Improved Feint
Elf (Spirit of the Waters) Witch (Sea Witch); turtle familiar; River Rat trait, Eschew Materials

Halfling (Low Blow, Underfoot) Cavalier (Luring Cavalier Musketeer); Gifted Firearm (musket), Order of the Tome; Dangerously Curious trait, Amateur Gunslinger (Deadeye deed), Precise Strike (bonus)
Dwarf (Craftsman, Stubborn) Gunslinger (Gun Tank Pistolero)
Human Inquisitor (Spellbreaker) of Besmara; Black Powder Inquisition; World Traveler trait (Knowledge (Local)), Skilled Driver (Water Vehicles)
Human Wizard (Spellslinger); Gunsmith (musket); Rapid Reload (Musket), Scribe Scroll

Human Cleric (Besmara); Channel Negative Energy (Weather Variant), Oceans and Storms Domains; 14 Cha, Birthmark trait, Selective Channeling
Half-Orc (Gatecrasher) Fighter (Cad); 13 Int, Dirty Fighter trait, Combat Expertise, Improved Dirty Trick
Human Magus (Bladebound Myrmidarch); Focused Mind trait, Combat Casting, Scribe Scroll
Half-Elf (Ancestral Arms (Longbow), Bard and Summoner as favored classes) Summoner (Evolutionist Master Summoner); +1/4 to evolution pool per summoner level; Arcane Strike; possible dip into bard

Human Oracle (Black-Blooded Oracle*); Waves Mystery, Darkvision and Wintry Touch revelations; Dangerously Curious trait, Extra Revelation, Martial Weapon Proficiency (Trident)
Human Paladin (Antipaladin); Sacred Conduit trait; Improved Shield Bash, Two-Weapon Fighting; Channel Smite at 5th
Halfling (Warslinger) Sorcerer (Crossblooded); Djinni and Stormborn bloodlines, Electricity Ray; River Rat trait, Martial Weapon Proficiency (Halfling Sling Staff)
Dwarf (Deep Warrior, Lorekeeper) Wizard (Siege Mage); Magical Talent trait (detect magic 1/day), Scribe Scroll

*-From Inner Sea Magic

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

Banjax wrote:

I'm sure this has been debated back and forth before (so if anybody can point me to that thread i'd be grateful as I can't find it) but now that the Words of Power system has been out for a while what are the pros and cons of it compared to regular casting?

From what I can see it does offer a reasonable amount of versatility, especially for spontanious blaster casters in that they can adapt their magic to a greater degree to suit what they're facing, facing cold immune mobs? just swap out the cold word for an acid word, prepared casters can do the same but only to th extent that they can read their GMs mind and guess what they're likely to face.

But they seem to offer a significant number of disadvantages to the caster, all the targetting words have greatly reduced ranges if you don't use the boost word which bumps the spell level up dramatically, I believe the standard example is fireball vs 'burst fire blast' where without boosting the wordspell has a close range and a 10ft radius instead of a long range and a 20ft radius, an exact match isnt possible but to get the 20ft radius you have to boost the spell by 2 levels to spell level 5 and to get the long range (and a 40ft burst) you have to boost by 4 levels to spell level 7 (which is a fairly steep cost to do 10d6 of damage at 13th/14th level)

You are mis-reading the burst target word description (granted, the typo of "this effect word" instead of "this target word" didn't help). Normally, a burst wordspell is close range, affects a 10 ft radius, and is minimum level 1; using boost on the burst target word, the spell is medium range, affects a 20 ft radius, and is minumum level 3; alternately, a boost burst wordspell can be long range, affect a 40 ft radius, and is minimum level 5. So both the burst fire blast and the boost burst fire blast wordspells are 3rd-level (burst minimum 1, fire blast minimum 3; boost burst minimum 3, fire blast minimum 3).

Words of Power is a slightly "weaker" version of spellcasting that allows a greater degree of flexibility/power in some cases, while being less versatile than normal spellcasting. As stated, it's very good for spontaneous blasters (as well as controllers; they can both mix and match targeting and effect words to the circumstances at hand); since all wordcasters know all the targeting words for free, being able to cast a 1d4/level damaging spell (either electricity or fire) as a 10 ft burst at close range, a 10 ft cone, a 20 ft line, or touch spell/ranged touch (ray) spell at close range by learning one effect word at level 1 is actually a pretty good deal.

IMO, the flexibility from combining effect words at higher levels is really where the system shines. For example, frost fingers cramp as a 3rd level spell to do 5d6 cold damage (can be increased with Intensified Spell), with a save against the staggered condition and half movement for one round; depending on the target word, the damage may also be saved against for half damage.

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

Ultimate Magic, pg. 80: "...the synthesist seems to be inside a translucent image of the eidolon." (emphasis mine)

Translucent =/= transparent.

From Dictionary.com: "permitting light to pass through but diffusing it so that persons, objects, etc., on the opposite side are not clearly visible: Frosted window glass is translucent but not transparent"

Getting back to the original topic, the synthesist is good for a self-buffing caster/melee concept. As noted, the synthesist only has a single set of actions, instead of two sets with a normal summoner/eidolon; however, the synthesist is about making the summoner a better combatant, not having a pet to do the fighting. It allows more flexibility in choosing alternate form abilities than either druid or beastmorph alchemist at the cost of being limited to a specific alternate form; where a druid or alchemist can choose different forms/abilities each time they use wildshape or brew a mutagen, the synthesist is pretty much locked in until gaining a new level.

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

Neall Raemonn Price wrote:
You still get bonus spells per day from your domain/bloodline, don't you?

The bonus prepared spells from a domain or school, yes. They are described under the Domain and Acane School class features gained at 1st level.

The bonus spells known from a bloodline, mystery, or patron, no. The bloodline and mystery spells are listed on the sorcerer and oracle class tables as separate class features. Patron spells have been specifically addressed by the developers.

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

Personally, I'd go with a human mobile fighter.

Human Fighter (Mobile Fighter) 10
17 Str (+2 race, +1 advancement), 17 Dex (+1 advancement), 14 Con, 10 Int, 12 Wis, 8 Cha; 20-Point Buy
1st- Improved Shield Bash, Power Attack, Two-Weapon Fighting
2nd- Agility +1; Double Slice
3rd- Armor Training 1; Cleave
4th- +1 Dex; Cleaving Finish
5th- Leaping Attack +1; Combat Reflexes
6th- Agility +2; Shield Slam
7th- Armor Training 2; Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
8th- +1 Str; Improved Bull Rush
9th- Leaping Attack +2, Weapon Training 1 (Close); Great Cleave
10th- Agility +3; Improved Cleaving Finish

Why? Because at 11th level I get Rapid Attack (combine a full attack with a move, losing the highest iterative; however, I can still make four attacks at BAB +6/+1//+7/+2, counting penalties for two-weapon fighting and the Leaping Attack and Weapon Training bonuses; unlike the pouncing barbarian, I don't have to charge) and Two-Weapon Rend (as my 11th level feat choice).

I wouldn't bother with Greater Two-Weapon Fighting. I'd concentrate on feats to increase attack/bull rush/critical/damage bonuses from 11th level and up.

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

Note that the "hire a 5th level illusionist that knows spectral force" is not dependent on (PC) ability score generation methods. A 12th level wizard should have plenty of funds from adventuring, especially considering that "buying/selling magic items" was pretty much not happening in 1st Ed; even copying spells into your spellbook still left you with a lot of money (unless your DM didn't follow the treasure tables, you also had a bunch of lower-powered magic items that you could use as loyalty enhancers).

Granted, illusionists weren't very common, but a large town would probably have at least one and a city would have several (if there is an organized "wizard's guild" or something similar, then there will be more of them). Since Tucker's Kobolds are part of a "classic mega-dungeon," periodic (lengthy) breaks to recover/train (on gaining a new level)/side trips (to a major city for rare supplies)/etc. are expected. If there are no suitable illusionists nearby, then all the party needs to do is take a trip to a large city and spend some "down time" on advertising and interviewing candidates.

Again, the party described by Roger E. Moore did not play in a prepared, savvy fashion. I'm not knocking the kobolds by saying that two prepared, savvy 5th level characters using two 3rd level spells (which are pretty iconic for their classes) could have killed them in batches with hardly any risk to themselves; that a "high level" party (in 1st Ed, once you hit "name level" at about 9th-11th, you were considered "high level") couldn't figure out a way to deal with them says more about the players' abilities relative to Tucker as a DM than it does about their characters' "limitations."

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

Yes and yes.

The crossblooded sorcerer has one fewer spell known of each spell-level, with no minimum. Note that the human alternate favored class bonus and the Expanded Arcana feat can help mitigate this.

The crossblooded sorcerer still gains the normal number of spell slots, which can be used as normal. The sorcerer can cast metamagiced versions of lower-level spells; usually, you can also cast lower-level spells using higher-level spell slots even without metamagic (I know this was the case in 3.x and I haven't seen anything disallowing the practice in Pathfinder).

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

Zimmy wrote:
We could debate this point all day, but the fact still remains that all of the arguments as to why clerics do and nobody else does are obscure reasoning which can only be defended by semantics.

Because clerics get their spells from their deities, who want their followers to promote their portfolios through their domains; the bonus prepared spells are specified in the Domains class feature (note domain powers are gained only with actual cleric levels). Also, specialist wizards gain the bonus prepared spells through the Arcane School class feature (again, the school powers are gained only with actual wizard levels).

Sorcerers, on the other hand, list the bloodline spells as separate class features on Table 3-14 (see Core Rulebook, pg. 72), just as oracles list mystery spells on Table 2-5 in the Advanced Players Guide (pg. 44) and witches' patron spells have been specifically addressed by the developers. This isn't semantics; this is following the rules as written. If it's listed on the class progression table, then you do not gain it past your actual levels in that class when you multiclass or prestige class, unless specifically stated otherwise.

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

It's a bit late, since you already went with a kitsune, but for those uncomfortable with being a transvirtual (i.e., role-playing the opposite gender) with a changeling, I'm always reminded of the Leithond (IIRC) character from the Thieves' World stories. Basically, the character was an androgynous spellcaster who kept his/her gender "under wraps," so to speak (Varsuvius, from the Order of the Stick comics, is a more modern example).

Really, gender is probably just about the least important aspect of a character (IMO), unless gender and gender roles are central to the character concept in the first place. It doesn't have to matter, unless you the player make it matter.

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

Yes, a magus can use Arcane Pool and Spellstrike on natural or unarmed attacks. Note, however, that in both cases the benefits only apply to a single natural weapon (a bite, one claw, etc.) or fist/foot; it does not apply to all natural weapons/unarmed attacks.

Arcane Pool: "A magus can only enhance one weapon in this way at one time. If he uses this ability again, the first use immediately ends."

Spellstrike: "At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of "touch" from the magus spell list, he can deliver it through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell."

Sorry, no Toothy half-orc ranger (shapeshifter) 2/magus X that can full attack with an Arcane Pool and Spellstrike boosted claw/claw/bite...

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

adamcboyd wrote:
Oh, well I guess it does the same. What is the benefit of one over the other? The way I see it, getting a Keen weapon just saves you having to burn a feat slot for Improved Crit?

As far as combat mechanics go, there's no real difference. However, the feat can be used with any weapon of that type (basically, any falchion the half-orc uses will have a critical threat range of 15-20). This also means that your character's main weapon can be a bit more powerful, since it can use the "extra +1 bonus" that would normally be used for keen on increasing the enhancement bonus or another ability. It's not like a fighter lacks feat slots, anyway.

I'd recommend Improved Critical, Greater Weapon Focus, and Critical Focus as your 8th, 9th, and 10th level feats. Greater Weapon Focus is the one I'd switch out as the least necessary.

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

Changelings gain -2 Con, +2 Wis, and +2 Cha, plus claws (1d4), +1 natural armor, Darkvision, and a Hag Trait.

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

Don't forget that the Item Creation feat qualifications are based on caster level. If you are using traits, the Magical Knack trait adds two to the caster level of one of your classes, not to exceed HD. If you took Magical Knack (Druid), then you can take Craft Magic Arms and Armor as a Druid 3/Wizard 2 with your 5th level feat choice, since your druid CL is 5.

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

An even simpler method:

1) Hire a 5th level illusionist that knows spectral force.

2) At the entrance of the dungeon, wedge open the doors and have the illusionist (standing 30 ft back with the rest of the party) cast a spectral force of a group of advenurers/soldiers heading down the dungeon corridor.

3) When the kobolds swarm out to attack ("The kobolds caught us about 60' into the dungeon..."; the range on spectral force for a 5th level illusionist is 90 ft), the 12th level wizard casts fireball down the dungeon corridor.

Result: Many dead kobolds for the use of two 3rd-level spells, and no one in the party took any damage.

As Aelryinth states, the party the Roger E. Moore described didn't play in a prepared, savvy fashion.

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

houstonderek wrote:
Guessing y'all house ruled out casting times? Just about anything short of a pole arm was faster than a high level spell, and the magic user's initiative is when he started casting...

12th level Magic-User (who is supposed to be smarter than average): "We know there are kobolds on the first level who are organized and like to use missiles, fire, etc. and move around in small tunnels between the main corridors. OK, Cleric, make sure you memorize resist fire as one of your 2nd-level spells when you pray to your deity before we travel to the dungeon tomorrow. I'll memorize invisibility, fireball, fly, infravision, and wizard eye. Once we get to the dungeon entrance, I'll cast wizard eye to scout a bit to find out the nearby dungeon layout and locations of the nearby kobolds. After I describe/draw the layout and locations, I'll cast infravision and fly on myself; then you cast resist fire on me while I cast protection from normal missiles. I'll then cast invisibility and fly to a good location before casting fireball to roast as many kobolds as possible as the explosion fills all those small tunnels and sets off their oil. I'll then fly back to the entrance as the rest of the party and henchmen/hirelings move in quickly to secure the blasted area after hearing the explosion. Everyone should stand about 30 ft back from the entrance, just in case."

Rinse, repeat, etc. If the kobolds can replace losses of tens to hundreds per day, then you aren't fighting a tribe living in a dungeon, you're fighting a nation with advanced logistics. At which point, the game goes from being heroic fantasy to a fantasy warfare campaign.

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

Kthulhu wrote:
That's the thing. If we want to play old-school enough that we're using the old "more dangerous monsters as you go deeper" trouple (not that I dislike that...I love megadungeons)...you can't just kill everything on level 1 and not expect the lower levels to flood onto level 1 to see what all the racket was. And if you go away and come back tomorrow, then sorry friend, there's just gonna be more kobolds.

That's why you hire a horde of henchmen (... and a partridge in a pear tree) and bring several days worth of supplies for everyone (it's probably a good idea to have a several 1st-3rd level clerics with create water or purify food and drink as well as cure light wounds and hold person among the henchmen, or possibly a few 5th-6th level ones with create food and water): you clear an area, then move in and fortify it (or at least part of it), setting up a strong point/rest area as a base from which to make further forays; the henchmen are there to guard the perimeter and help keep the PCs from being ambushed in their sleep (i.e., they take shifts). Depending on how close the mega-dungeon is to the nearest town and the conditions between the town and the dungeon, setting up overland lines of supply might be feasible. If your party is on the N(E) side, then any cleric of 5th level or above (or magic-user of 9th level or above who learns the spell) can cast animate dead to raise the corpses of the dead monsters (and the henchmen too, if they're really on the E side) as zombies; zombies, after all, don't need food or payment, never need sleep, and always follow orders.

This style of play is old hat for many of us who grew up with 1st Ed or cut their teeth on B2 The Keep on the Borderlands. What amuses me most about Tucker's Kobolds is the lack of strategy and tactics by the players, considering that this was on an Army base. Obviously, Tucker had a much better grasp of them than the players did.

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

Quote:
Can you help me think up some reasons why a dwarf would be a monk?

The monk of the sacred mountain archetype, Improved Trip, Greater Trip, and Twin Thunders feat chain (technically, unarmed {fist} strikes are "bludgeoning weapons" that are "wielded" "in each hand").

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

Name Violation wrote:
theres also a trait that lowers metamagic'd spells by 1 level i believe

Magical Lineage only applies to a single spell chosen when the trait is selected.

However, you can take the Spell Perfection feat with the same spell, potentially using two metamagic feats on the spell without increasing the effective spell-level: want to cast a Maximized Intensified or Quickened Intensified fireball from a 3rd level spell slot?

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

Yora wrote:
If the item is a ring, boots, helmet, or something like that, adding new magical abilities increases the price for the new ability by +50%.

Almost right. The market price for an item with "multiple different abilities" should always be calculated with the most expensive power unmodified and each additional power increased by 50%, independent of the order in which powers are added to the item. This follows the same ordering as items with "multiple similar abilities."

Yora wrote:
When you create a new item, starting with the most expensive enchantment first makes the whole thing less expensive then when you start with a cheaper one.

The order the powers are added doesn't matter when calculating market price, just the discrete price of each power. Otherwise, the GM has to look at every item with multiple abilities not created by PCs and decide in which order each power was added; this also prevents items with exactly the same abilities having different market prices. Just follow the "most expensive power is unmodified, the other powers are modified" rule of thumb, even if it causes some extra calculation when adding new abilities; it causes less problems to the overall campaign/system.

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

Amentum (Ultimate Combat gladiator weapon)

Arc Slinger (Ultimate Combat feat)

Atlatl (Ultimate Combat primitive weapon)

Hawkeye (Archer archetype class feature)

Longshot (Ultimate Combat spell)

Steady Aim (Musket Master archetype deed)

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

Re: Craft Construct

It's feat intensive, but an alchemist can qualify by taking the Master Craftsman, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, and Craft Wondrous Item feats. Note that there are a few wondrous items that can be crafted as armor (gauntlet of rust, helms) or weapons (feather token (whip), mattock of the titans, maul of the titans).

It's not RAW, but you could also allow alchemists with Craft Wondrous Items to make dusts, elixirs, restorative ointment, salve of slipperiness, silversheen, sovereign glue, stone salve, unguent of timelessness, and universal solvent without requiring Master Craftsman (Craft (Alchemy)) to qualify for the Craft Wondrous Item feat.

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

Khrysaor wrote:
And yet I've cited examples comparable to the item listed that are cheaper and provide better benefits. You're trying to over complicate this by insisting there's more to this than meets the eye. The benefits provided by the OP aren't so beneficial that they should be up for extra consideration. The quote you're citing is for things like boots of expeditious retreat, that by RAW are valued at 4000gp and provide a greater benefit than an existing item.

1) There is no published item that grants continous sanctuary to provide a price comparison, either. Besides, it's not as if a DC 11 Will save (remember, saving throws from magic item effects always use the minimum needed casting stat for a spell of that level; DC 10 + 1 for spell level + 0 for 11 Wis) is really worth it (no it is not "better benefits"). The protection from evil effect is complete immunity to mental control (no save to bypass); again, the closest equivalent magic item is a ring of freedom of movement.

2) The quote is a general rule. There is no text saying "only applies for this and that, but doesn't apply for the other." You disagree with my interpretation, fine. But you have not provided any analysis showing that a cost comparison to a similar item for non-standard magic item is unwaranted. All you have done is play a shell game by using other (non-standard magic item) spell effects to "prove" that using the spell effects formula is "balanced." All you have done is show the deviation within that formula; you have not put it in any greater context.

You seem to understand that 4,000 gp boots of expeditious retreat are more powerful than the bare formula would indicate, but have not grasped that as a general principle. See ring of invisibility for another example: by the spell effect formula, it's 2 x 3 x 1,800 gp = 10,800 gp for an unlimited use command word item; however, because invisibility is a powerful effect, the market price was raised to 20,000 gp.

Again, complete immunity to mental control is a powerful effect. The magic item pricing should take that into consideration.

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

Khrysaor wrote:
Why is everyone coming up with arbitrary savings and formulae for this? The formula is already listed in the book and is entirely fair.

See Core Rulebook pg. 549: "Many factors must be considered when determining the price of new magical items. The easiest way to come up with a price is to compare the new item to an item that is already priced, using that price as a guide." It also states (pg. 549-550): "Not all items adhere to these formulas. First and foremost, these few formulas aren't enough to truly guage the exact differences between items. The price of the magic item may be modified based on actual worth."

Ignoring that text and blindly applying Table 15-29 leads to use activated true strike items for 2,000 gp (+20 to your first attack roll each and every round) and other silliness.

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

adrem wrote:
Dragonchess Player wrote:


With pearls of power you still have to prepare mage armor in one of your 1st-level spell slots. Depending on how long you expect to be in danger, a command word mage armor (CL 2) 4 times per day item (market price 2,880 gp) will protect you for 8 hours per day (four 2 hour spell effects) at a lower cost than three pearls of power (1st).

if I pay 2800, I presume I'm a minimum 4th level. a 3th level have a maximum of 3000 gp.

If I'm a 4th level, I take 5 pearl of power and protect me for 16hours. and I pay only 2500.

A pearl of power (1st) has a market price of 1,000 gp. If you want to compare apples to apples, a 4th level wizard can craft three pearls of power for 1,500 gp (four castings of mage armor for a total of 16 hours, must prepare mage armor as one of your 1st level spells) or the mage armor 4 times per day item for 1,440 gp (four activations of mage armor for a total of 8 hours, all of your 1st level spell slots are free for other spells). Considering that a 4th level wizard can only prepare, at most, 5 1st-level spells (if the wizard has a 20-21 Int; i.e., started with a 19-20 Int at 1st level), plus one more if a specialist, the need to tie up 1/5th (or more) of your possible 1st level spells with mage armor may not be worth having the effect up for 16 hours instead of only 8 hours.

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Stabatha wrote:
Dragonchess Player wrote:
The continuous bonuses on Table 15-29 used to calculate the market price of magic items do not have restrictions built in.
why should u get a cost savings ? the item only works Vs. the evil alignment , which is the point of making it .

Read the sentence above.

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adrem wrote:
Dragonchess Player wrote:

By my estimate:

(+2 deflection bonus vs. evil) 2 x 2 x 2,000 gp x .7 = 5,600 gp x 1.5 = 8,400 gp
(+2 resistance bonus vs. evil) 2 x 2 x 1,000 gp x .7 = 2,800 gp x 1.5 = 4,200 gp
(immune to evil possession/mental control*) 40,000 gp x .7 = 28,000 gp
Total Market Price = 8,400 gp + 4,200 gp + 28,000 gp = 40,600 gp

wrong cost.

I prefere to pay for all.

+2 deflection base (vs all): 2x2x2000= 8000
+2 resistance base (vs all): 2x2x1000= 4000x1,5= 6000
immune to mental control by evil creature whitout deflection or resistance bonus (only one protection evil effect): 1x1x2000x2= 4000x1,5= 6000.

total 8000+6000+6000= 20000, craft it is 10000.

I dont understand why you compare protect evil (inc lev 1) whit freedom of movement (inc level 4) !!!!!

In your opinion. Core Rulebook pg. 549 states: "Many factors must be considered when determining the price of new magical items. The easiest way to come up with a price is to compare the new item to an item that is already priced, using that price as a guide." It also states: "Not all items adhere to these formulas. First and foremost, these few formulas aren't enough to truly guage the exact differences between items. The price of the magic item may be modified based on actual worth."

There is no "immunity to mental control" line on Table 15-29. The closest equivalent item to use as a comparison is a ring of freedom of movement (immune to all effects that impede movement, such as entanglements, grapples, etc.); note that a ring of freedom of movement doesn't follow the formula on Table 15-29, either (if it did, it would be 4 x 7 x 2,000 gp x 1.5 = 84,000 gp).

The "only applies vs. evil" also needs to be factored in. The GM can either rule that's equivalent to the Item Requires Specific Class or Alignment to Use limitation (30% reduction; This is the 40,600 gp price I gave above) or decide that larger cost break is in order to capture the actual worth (IMO, a 50% reduction might be in order, since evil creatures make up at least 1/3 to 1/2 of opponents in most campaigns; this is the 29,000 gp price I gave above).

Your pricing does not reflect the actual worth of the effect. Because the immunity to mental control includes "enchantment [charm] effects and enchantment [compulsion] effects," the character cannot be subject to command, hold person, sleep, etc. Immunity to all forms of mental control is a huge benefit; the major limitation on the spell (why it is 1st-level) is duration and that it only applies vs. mental control from evil (or chaotic, etc. for the other versions) opponents. Actually, the spell is pretty powerful for a 1st-level spell, but that's a different argument.

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For progression, I'd recommend something like:

Human Crossblooded (Djinni/Stormborn) Sorcerer/Spellslinger Wizard
Favored Class: Sorcerer (take the extra spell known every sorcerer level)
Trait: Magical Knack (Sorcerer) to keep your sorcerer caster level equal to HD

Sor1- take Electricity Ray as your bloodline power; Point Blank Shot, Skill Focus (Knowledge (Arcana)*)
Wiz1- Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Firearms) and Gunsmithing as bonus feats; gain a free pistol or musket (a pistol will be handier)
Sor2- Eldritch Heritage (Arcane bloodline); parrot (raven) familiar
Sor3- +1 Dex to raise 15 to 16; Stormchild as bloodline power, shocking grasp as bloodline spell
Sor4- Rapid Reload (Pistol) so that you can reload as a free action with alchemical cartridges
Sor5- gust of wind as bloodline spell is more useful on a ship, but invisibility is more useful in general
Sor6- Intensified Spell or Reach Spell
Sor7- +1 Cha; Deadly Aim as bloodline feat, lightning bolt as bloodline spell
Sor8- Empowered Spell or Intensified Spell or Reach Spell
Sor9- Whirlwind as bloodline power, shout as bloodline spell
...

*-Knowledge (Arcana) is used to identify magic auras, spell effects, etc., which will probably be more useful to an arcanist than other knowledge skills.

@sunbeam: Turtle familiars are in Ultimate Magic.

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adrem wrote:
ZomB wrote:

Protection from evil only works against evil in the first place - you can't get a discount for then saying it doesn't work against other types. Protection from good/chaotic/lawful are separate spells.

In any case the only RAW reductions allowed are for if the item requires skill use (10%) or if it only works for a specific class or alignment (30%).

ok, in this point of view, protection vs evil is only a first level spell,

and cost

1x1x2000x2= 4000. craft it cost 2000. whit 30% discount cost 1400

I think ZomB is missing part of the point: The OP wants a magic item that duplicates most of the abilities of the protection from evil spell as a continuous effect.

The continuous bonuses on Table 15-29 used to calculate the market price of magic items do not have restrictions built in. By my estimate:

(+2 deflection bonus vs. evil) 2 x 2 x 2,000 gp x .7 = 5,600 gp x 1.5 = 8,400 gp
(+2 resistance bonus vs. evil) 2 x 2 x 1,000 gp x .7 = 2,800 gp x 1.5 = 4,200 gp
(immune to evil possession/mental control*) 40,000 gp x .7 = 28,000 gp
Total Market Price = 8,400 gp + 4,200 gp + 28,000 gp = 40,600 gp

Note that a GM may wish to provide a larger cost savings for only working against evil opponents. 50% instead of 30% seems reasonable, because any alignment can use the item and evil opponents are pretty common. The lower-priced version would be 29,000 gp.

*-based on comparison to ring of freedom of movement; mental control vs. physical control

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adrem wrote:
ZomB wrote:

Consumables: Wands, Potions and scrolls always use their respective formulas.

For a continuous item you match against the most expensive formula on the list. Mage Armor gives a +4 Armor Bonus so a continuous effect Mage Armor would use the armor bonus formula = armor bonus squared * 1000 = 16000 GP.

For charges per day items its a gray area so a DM might insist you base it off the armor bonus formula or might let you use the command word spell formula.

Wand of Mage Armor (50 charges) = 750 gp
Continuous Mage Armor slot item = 16000 gp

Command word Mage Armor item = DMs call

16000??

pass, I craft pearl of power.. and when I'm 5 or 6 level whit 3 or 4 pearl of power I have mage armor for all day :D

Note that the pricing for continuous items should always use the top of Table 15-29 if they grant bonuses. The 16,000 gp market price for a continuous +4 armor bonus is exactly the same as bracers of armor +4.

The command word/times per day item is less expensive because the spell effect must be specifically activated (it's not "always on") and only lasts for a set time (usually determined by caster level) per activation.

With pearls of power you still have to prepare mage armor in one of your 1st-level spell slots. Depending on how long you expect to be in danger, a command word mage armor (CL 2) 4 times per day item (market price 2,880 gp) will protect you for 8 hours per day (four 2 hour spell effects) at a lower cost than three pearls of power (1st).

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adrem wrote:

hi all!

If I create an item whit 5 charge x day whit mage armor (level 1).. the cost is:

1x1x1800x(5/5)= 1800?

a wand whit 50 charges is 750mo, 5 charges/day is 1800?

and longstrider is the same cost? 1800?

That is correct for X per day command word items. Note however the difference between command word (activated by anyone without needing Use Magic Device) and spell-trigger (must be on the character's spell list to activate without needing Use Magic Device).

Also, the 5 times per day item never "runs out" of magic; it can be used up to 5 times every day for as long as it's in the character's possession. A 50 charge item, on the other hand, can only be used 50 times before becoming non-magical. If both the times per day item and the charged item are used 5 times each day, the charged item will no longer work after 10 days, while the times per day item will keep working.

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You may want to consider crossblooded (djinni/stormborn) sorcerer, both for the arcana (djinni to change energy type to electricity, stormborn for the +1 DC with electricity and sonic spells) and access to the Electricity Ray and Whirlwind powers. The fewer spells known can be mitigated to some extent with the alternate human favored class bonus.

You may also want to look at taking a level of spellslinger wizard, which gives you Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Firearms) and Gunsmithing; the ability to "cast any ranged touch attack, cone, line, or ray spells" through a gun, adding "the gun's enhancement bonus... to the spell's attack roll or... saving throw DC;" a free gun; and the ability to sacrifice a spell to enhance a gun. Also, the character can "learn" any 1st level spell by scribing it to their spellbook. This does, however, delay sorcerer spell progression.

Alternately, instead of sorcerer with a level of wizard, you could go wizard with a level of sorcerer.

Spending two feats (Skill Focus (Knowledge (Arcana)) and Eldritch Heritage (Arcane bloodline)) for a familiar may be a bit steep for some, but if that's what you want go for it. Instead of a parrot (raven), you may want to consider a monkey (shades of Captain Barbossa from Pirates of the Carribean).

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Jeff de luna wrote:
GeraintElberion wrote:

Ancient Greece would be weird in PF.

It doesn't really do tiny little city-states at the moment. Everywhere on the map is, by European standards, absolutely massive.

True, which is a little odd, when you think about it. Tiny city states or semi-autonomous communes were a part of the historical middle ages and renaissance, nearly everywhere.

Except for Byzantium, the Caliphate of Damascus, China (both before and after the conquest/unification under the Mongols), the Holy Roman Empire, etc...

Granted, most RPG settings have nations that seem larger/more unified than most European countries in the Middle Ages, but there are indications (i.e., Council of Thieves) that individual polities still have significant levels of autonomy. It's more of a limitation of how much information a publisher can reasonably include than anything else (seriously, RPG publishers can't afford to develop/print setting details down to the granularity of real world history). Border areas (or even some divisions inside the country) are probably fairly amorphous and/or "just lines on a map," unless there is a strong military/magical presence, just like countries in the real world.

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A beast-bonded witch's Familiar Form can still work with an Improved Familiar. However, the restrictions on beast shape II mean the witch's Improved Familiar has to be of the animal type to take its form: celestial/fiendish familiar, dire rat, or other animal at the GM's discretion (IMO, the starting stats for almost any of the Small size Animal Companions*--badger, bear, boar, small cat, crocodile, dinosaur, dog, viper snake, etc.--would work pretty well; other animals like poison frogs should also be considered).

*-Note that the Improved Familiar is still treated as a familiar and not as an Animal Companion.

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BYC wrote:
Dragonchess Player wrote:
BYC wrote:

I'm almost positive once you are higher level, the weapon cord will cause problems by allowing the gunslinger to take a lot of shots all as touch attacks.

At level 6, with Rapid Shot and Deadly Aim, using Grit for Focused Aim (let's assuming 16 CHA), that's 4 shots, that's 4d8 + 20, all as touch attacks. If your party is heavily optimized, this is not an issue. If not, I bet somebody will complain at some point. Also remember free actions can be limited by the GM now, as it is stated in Core under free actions.

Yes, you can get a lot of shots in by dual-wielding pistols and using weapon cords. However, the shooter only gets to target touch AC in the first range increment of early firearms (20 ft for regular pistols or double barreled pistols); with early fireams, that puts you within reach of a large creature with a reach weapon. The Deadeye deed can increase that, but only at the cost of 1 grit point per range increment (1 grit for 40 ft, 2 grit for 60 ft, etc.) and normal range penalties still apply.

Also, per the rules on weapon cords, you cannot wield another weapon in the hand with a weapon cord attached. That's a pretty big drawback when you're shooting targets at close range (although the Pistol-Whip deed at least lets you use the pistols as clubs).

Anybody who isn't an idiot knows this. I play a gunslinger, and I've GMed 2 more before. I know how it works. Are you trying to impress somebody with your knowledge of the rules or something?

You were the one who stated "I bet somebody will complain at some point" about the damage from dual-wielding pistols unless "your party is heavily optimized." You also failed to provide any context that you were viewing this from any other perspective than "4 shots, that's 4d8 + 20, all as touch attacks." I was simply pointing out that there are some pretty big drawbacks from it, which you didn't mention.

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Callarek wrote:
Oliver McShade wrote:
So Enchantment bonus count as armor bonus or shield bonus when added to such.
So, there any rules that say this?

LordClammy already posted the relevant text regarding enhancement bonuses: "Since enhancement bonuses to armor or natural armor effectively increase the armor or natural armor's bonus to AC..."

However, if you want the actual Core Rulebook quote, it's on pg. 179: "Enhancement Bonuses: Enhancement bonuses apply to your armor to increase the armor bonus it provides."

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BYC wrote:

I'm almost positive once you are higher level, the weapon cord will cause problems by allowing the gunslinger to take a lot of shots all as touch attacks.

At level 6, with Rapid Shot and Deadly Aim, using Grit for Focused Aim (let's assuming 16 CHA), that's 4 shots, that's 4d8 + 20, all as touch attacks. If your party is heavily optimized, this is not an issue. If not, I bet somebody will complain at some point. Also remember free actions can be limited by the GM now, as it is stated in Core under free actions.

Yes, you can get a lot of shots in by dual-wielding pistols and using weapon cords. However, the shooter only gets to target touch AC in the first range increment of early firearms (20 ft for regular pistols or double barreled pistols); with early fireams, that puts you within reach of a large creature with a reach weapon. The Deadeye deed can increase that, but only at the cost of 1 grit point per range increment (1 grit for 40 ft, 2 grit for 60 ft, etc.) and normal range penalties still apply.

Also, per the rules on weapon cords, you cannot wield another weapon in the hand with a weapon cord attached. That's a pretty big drawback when you're shooting targets at close range (although the Pistol-Whip deed at least lets you use the pistols as clubs).

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Note, however, that enhancement bonuses apply to a specific object or creature ability. The bonus on a +1 shield or +1 armor is not a "generic AC bonus" separate from the shield or armor. I only mention this because of a common mistake of adding the enhancement bonuses from magic armor and/or shields to the armor/shield bonus granted by bracers of armor and the mage armor and shield spells.

You can't transfer enhancement bonuses to other items/effects. Sorry, no sorcerers/witches/wizards with +1 silken ceremonial armor (+1 armor +1 enhancement, 0% arcane failure) and a +1 mithral buckler (+1 shield +1 enhancement, 0% arcane failure) getting an AC of 20 + Dex mod from mage armor (+4 armor) and shield (+4 shield). It's either 14 + Dex mod without the spells, 16 + Dex mod with mage armor and buckler, or 18 + Dex mod with both spells.

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gnomersy wrote:

Stop being silly intentionally. Also what would you do if your level 1 party sat down and since you ruled no application of crafting prior to the game they simply sat in town and refused to leave before finishing their crafting?

Do you rocks fall everyone dies like a brat throwing a fit, or just accept that if they want to there is absolutely no reason they can't do that. And all you're doing by forcing them to do it during play time is slowing down the game for everyone.

...

Besides are all of your adventure party backgrounds, "We were the bestest of friends forever golly gee wilikers!"? Because otherwise your characters may not even know each other at the start of the campaign.

Watch your tone.

Well, if they do something like that ("We can't rescue the mayor's daughter for another week or two while we craft equipment."), then either the bad guys succeed and are much tougher/no longer there or some group of NPCs goes out and foils their plans (and are celebrated as heroes). In either case, the town residents and authorities will look on the PCs with disfavor (instead of the benefit of the doubt normally given to adventurers in the game) because of their (lack of) action. No "rocks fall, everyone dies," just the appropriate reaction to a group of "heroes" who refused act with a sense of urgency in a crisis.

As far as party backgrounds go, with such a large mechanical benefit, why wouldn't a party be "bestest of friends?" This forces GM-fiat to not have the entire party start with double normal Wealth By Level. The point is that allowing it will likely cause more GM-fiat, not less, or throw off game balance significantly.

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Two things to keep in mind:

1) If you allow "crafting" of items at character creation, you will skew the game balance toward specific races (dwarf with Craftsman alternate racial trait, gnome with Master Tinker alternate racial trait and Obsession (Craft (Weapons)), half-elf with Adaptability (Skill Focus in a Craft skill), human using bonus feat for Skill Focus in a Craft skill) and traits (Rich Parents for 900 gp starting wealth). With a 12+ or 14+ Int (12+ Int with Skill Focus, 14+ Int with Craftsman or Obsessive) and a set of masterwork artisan tools (55 gp), you can reach a +10 skill check modifier on a Craft skill with one skill rank (since every class has Craft as a class skill), allowing you to take 10 when crafting masterwork items (DC 20). Suddenly, you get 1st level dwarf fighters running around in masterwork full plate with masterwork weapons, 1st level gnomes with masterwork repeating heavy crossbows and falcatas (which they can use proficiently without needing to take feats), 1st level half-elves with masterwork armor, weapons, or masterwork composite longbows built for Str, etc. If you start after 1st level, there won't be quite as much of a difference without the Rich Parents trait, but there is still an effect to game balance.

2) The magic item creation feats are not designed to increase the Wealth By Level. What they are designed to do is allow characters to customize their magic items without losing money from selling "excess/unwanted" items (i.e., +1 longswords when everyone already has a +1 weapon or someone wants a +1 scimitar instead) at half market price (see Selling Treasure, Core Rulebook pg. 140) and then paying full market price on upgrades/replacements. Even if the GM tailors the treasure to the PCs, there will still be a large amount of duplicate or unwanted items (i.e., unholy weapons when a party of good PCs wipe out an evil temple). If you start after 1st level and allow PCs to use item creation feats to make items at half market price, you skew the game balance even more toward the item creation feats (and also toward spellcasting classes even more than normal, since Master Craftsman is RAW restriced to items made with a single Craft skill; i.e., either armor or weapons (not including bows) or only bows with Master Craftsman and Craft Magic Arms and Armor).

As a GM, you can certainly allow either or both, but be aware of the effect on game balance.

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Ævux wrote:

In ultimate combat, there is a character duel wielding pistols while ghost hands reload for her.

WTF is that, and how can I be that?

Its right under reloading hands, So i assume that is suppose to be the spell... but why does magus get it?

So is there a way for me to effectively play a duel pistol wielding Magus? or is Paizo being jerks?

1) The picture is probably of a spellslinger wizard (possibly gunslinger/wizard/eldritch knight) using two pistols attuned as his (?) Arcane Guns and two reloading hands spells. The top looks a lot more like a leather jacket than leather armor.

2) There is not really an archetype to play an "effective" two-pistol magus, if you mean being able to simultaneously enhance both weapons with your arcane pool and/or spellstrike abilities. The myrmidarch is the only archetype that allows the use of spellstrike with a ranged weapon, but you still need the free hand to cast with Spell Combat. However, the Pool Strike arcana could be used when fighting with weapons in both hands.

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

Since it is not explicitly stated otherwise, the baseline is that similar effects overlap. Period.

Otherwise, you have 10th level beastform alchemists running around with six extra abilities from their mutagens (one from alter self, two from beast shape I, and three from beast shape II) and 14th level beastform alchemists with TEN (four more from beast shape III). At which point, everyone except the munchkins complains about how overpowered the archetype is compared to druids and why would anyone play anything else. If you want a broken game at 10th level, go right ahead and let the extra abilities stack (or try and find a GM who will allow it).

It's not like the non-stacking version is all that weak, anyway. Basically, it just allows the beastform alchemist to incorporate the effects of an extract into their mutagen (also benefiting from the longer duration of the mutagen) at about the point when that extract formula can be learned (one level early for alter self and beast shape I, same level for beast shape II, and one level after for beast shape III).

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Kantam Xantaros wrote:

I am working on a character/partial campaign that has an enemy who can pose/disguise as a human and is highly intelligent but is really something else. Im not looking for like a lycanthrope or something like that, i just can't find the right monster. Any suggestions?

Oh an ps this archenemy needs the ability to take on multiple different appearances.

Any humanoid would work as a 13th level druid. A Thousand Faces gives a druid "the ability to change her appearance at will, as if using the alter self spell." Not only can the BBEG pose as human, but also dwarf, elf, etc., as well.

Druids also have spells, medium BAB, and an animal companion/spontaneous summon nature's ally casting.

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

1. The values in table 15-29 are for market price, not construction cost.

A ring of invisibility is a command word item, not a use activated or continuous item; you have to spend an action to activate it. 2 x 3 x 1,800 gp = 10,800 gp. However, because invisibility is such a powerful effect, the market price is nearly doubled to 20,000 gp to prevent it from unbalancing medium level play.

2. The system of pricing magic items is not perfectly reducible to just reading from a table. There are flaws (mainly from failures to apply the formulae for bonuses, instead of spell effect, in cases where a spell effect grants bonuses and someone wants a "continuous mage armor or shield" item), but the rules provide a pretty good benchmark for magic item pricing. However, there is still a need for interpretation and comparison with similar items.

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@Sayer_of_Nay: Sorcerers don't really have the spells known slots to get all of the different form/physique/shape spells; they pretty much have to specialize on a subset if they want to be able to do other things. Alchemists get most of them, but don't get the very best ones (such as shapechange).

@Dennis Baker: The beastmorph alchemist (Ultimate Combat) gives some additional benefits with a mutagen.

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

IIRC:
1) Xanderghul (Pride)
2) Sorchen (Lust)
3) Alaznist (Wrath)
4) Karzoug (Greed)
5) Zutha (Gluttony)
6) Belimarius (Envy)
7) Krune (Sloth)

I'm not 100% sure about the order of 5) and 6), but it's probably correct. Xanderghul and Sorchen were the only two runelords who held onto power since the founding of Thassilon.

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

You can have a wizard with Craft Wondrous Item make you a 1/day command word item for 360 gp (720 gp for a non-slot item)... except in Pathfinder Society. You're probably better off with a wand of gravity bow (750 gp for 50 charges); you'll need to make DC 20 Use Magic Device checks to activate it, but as a bard it's a class skill and you should have a high Cha. Alternately, a magician bard could choose gravity bow as their Expanded Repetoire spell at 2nd level.

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Sayer_of_Nay wrote:

I'm making this thread for a friend who "doesn't like to waste time screwing around on message boards." Despite this, he seems to believe that I *do* have time to waste... which I do.

Anyway, he wants advice on creating a polymorph specialist wizard; images of Merlin and Mad Madame Mym no doubt dance in his head (not that I blame him, that movie rocked). I advised him that druid might be the safer bet as far as shapeshifting goes, but he's not a fan of druids.

The game is 7th level with a 25 point buy (our standard, it seems). All paizo material is available for use.

I'm not really certain how effective a melee focused shapeshifter wizard will be, but meh. Thanks all!

The following can serve as a starting point:

Human or Half-Orc (depending on whether he wants the feat or the Toothy alternate racial trait) Wizard (Shapechange) 5/Barbarian or Fighter (depending on whether he wants Rage or a bonus feat) 1/Eldritch Knight 1
16 Str, 14 Dex, 14 Con, 17 Int (+2 race, +1 advancement), 12 Wis, 8 Cha
Trait: Magical Knack (Wizard)
Feats: Eschew Materials, Silent Spell, and Still Spell will allow you to cast when using beast shape I (or in armor with Still Spell); unfortunately, wizards don't qualify for Natural Spell
Spells: make sure alter self, animal aspect, and beast shape I are among the spells in his spellbook

The benefit wizard shapeshifters have is the ability to learn all the shapeshifting spells: alter self, animal aspect, baleful polymorph, beast shape, elemental body, form of the dragon, giant form, monstrous physique, plant shape, polymorph, shapechange, undead anatomy, vermin shape, etc. The drawback is either poor BAB (straight wizard) or delayed spellcasting (eldritch knight).

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