Dragonamedrake's page

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Dragonamedrake wrote:

Only think I have noticed so far.

The Witch favored class bonus that gives a spell to your familiar. It is the bonus to several races and you have a different color for each lol.

You start giving it a blue, and then it goes green, then orange, and finally red by the time you reach goblins lol.

I agree its a trap favored class bonus. You can spend gold to get spells for your familiar.

I would change all the races that get that bonus to Red.

Thanks for that, sometimes in a huge document like this you get confused about your own ratings LOL

NP. I did the same thing when I wrote the trait guide. My opinion would change as I wrote the guide about how good a certain bonus was and would rate similar traits different colors. Thankfully I had alot of great posters point out the differences.

The guide is looking top notch. Good luck finishing it up.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Only think I have noticed so far.

The Witch favored class bonus that gives a spell to your familiar. It is the bonus to several races and you have a different color for each lol.

You start giving it a blue, and then it goes green, then orange, and finally red by the time you reach goblins lol.

I agree its a trap favored class bonus. You can spend gold to get spells for your familiar.

I would change all the races that get that bonus to Red.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Well its theme appropriate. I thought about playing a Tattooed Sorcerer if I ever played a Skull and Shackles campaign, but it works just as well for a wizard who takes the feats.

Your a pirate... in a pirate campaign... who can create magical tattoos. Thats frigging awesome. Pirates should be lining up to get inked by you. On top of that you do some pretty cool things with them. Just looking at the 3 example tattoos are pretty impressive. Things to remember though.

1. Magical tattoos follow the rules for magic item creation as though they were wondrous items, except that they can use the Craft (calligraphy, paintings, tattoos) skill.New magical tattoos can be researched and designed using the guidelines for pricing new magic items.
So yes you can use them for scrolls... but they can also be wondrous items. This is only limited by your imagination and your DM. First you need to make sure your DM is ok with custom magic items. Second check out a few of the guides online about really good (cheesy?) custom items you can make into tattoos

2. Magical tattoos are treated as slotless magical items for pricing purposes. This can get expensive quick. Low level utility spells and effects are probably going to be your best bet. The good thing though is they don't take up your magic item slots.

A few ideas.

Summon Monster/summon swarm - You could make a really cheap tattoo of a snake, spider, ect and make it a summon of that animal... have it literally peel off your skin and animate. Cool stuff like that. Give it a thematic feel... DM permitting.

The feather tokens could make for some hilarious situations.

Use your talent for profit. I cant see why your fellow pirates (NPCs) wont pay for cheep low level magical tattoos. Pirates are superstitious. The tattoo doesn't even have to be that impressive for them to think its worth a ton.

Just my 2 cents.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

LazarX wrote:

The same reason that you and others keep asking about them. They're about the most broken aspect of an extremely breakable class. Hardly anyone would ask if a DM banned the geisha archetype.

Summoners are effectively the rebirth of 3.X Druidzilla.

I agree its the druid reborn, and I so want to play one.

3.5 Druid vs Sythesist

D8 HD vs D8 HD = Draw
3/4 BAB vs 3/4 BAB = Draw
4 Skill Points per level vs 2 Skill Points per level = Druid
Med Armor vs light armor = Druid
Animal Companion vs no Companion = Druid
9th level spell casting vs 6th level spell casting = Druid
Entire spell list known vs limited spells known = Druid

Multitude of forms based on what is needed at time vs
One static form that can change once a level = Druid

So worse Spellcasting, Spells known mechanic, skill points, companion, and altered form.....

Yeah totally the same thing as the 3.X Druidzilla (which btw wasn't that bad).

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I have to second what Mathwei ap Niall said.

Twin Soul is the most OPed ability in PF. Period. Its an at will permanent Magic Jar for you and your familiar. YOur target just... dies. And you get a shiny new body. Who needs improved familiar... your familiar is whatever you want him to be. RP wise you are immortal. If by some fluke you keep a body long enough for it to become old, then you again just get a new one.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I personally love them. Heck I hope they make more. Why not? If your running a game just limit what you dont want. If your playing then dont play something you dont like. Why is it that the simple existance of new classes offends you(And by you I am speaking generally)? Its like someone complaining there are more options then just Ford and Chevy when they go to buy a car. More options = Good. Someone actually complained that it was harder to min/max when there where so many options... well then dont go to that extreame when it comes to min/max. Just make a competent character you can have fun with.

Now my opinions on the classes...

Witch - So much flavor in this class. Some of the hexs are just full of RP value... for both players and DM NPC enemies.

Oracle - Love it. Great spontanous divine caster. Flavor and effective.

Summoner - While it is complicated and can cause issues for DM's if they aren't prepared... its a great class. It reminds me of the Malconvoker from 3.5 which I loved... in fact I made a hombrew Malconvoker archtype for the summoner just to get the feel perfect.

Magus - Its a gish in a box. It what alot of people wanted since 3rd edition. It works well and I think is right where it should be on the power scale.

Ninja - Its what the rogue should have been. Personally I give it trapfinding, allow rogue talents and call it a rogue... I just reflavor to be less ninja sounding. (Rogue luck vs Ki as an example).

Samurai - Never seen it in action, but if someone wanted to play one I would simply reflavor it so be less asian.

Inquisitor - I like it. Its a good mix between Cleric and Bard. It has great melee potential while still giving some spell casting for utility. Again the flavor is fantastic based on what deity you choose.

Gunslinger - This is the one class I dont like. First I dont do Steampunk so no firearms in my game. Second the mechanics are just wonky and hard to balance. A full BA class that uses touch attacks. Its seriously overpowered if you dont highly adjust your enemies to compensate for it.

Over all. Most the classes are full of RP value. They all have their nitch. And it provides a breath of fresh air for those of us who have played since 3.0 first came out. Sometimes you want to play something new. These classes are great additions.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Which spellcasting casters can get familiars? I know that wizards and witches start with them, while sorcerers, magi and alchemists have methods of getting them, and the Summoner has his eidolon so this becomes an irrelevant question for him. But what about the divine casters? Can they get a little magic-assisting critter to help them?

There are some domains that give familiars. You can also get the Arcane bloodline and receive a familiar by taking the Eldritch Heritage feat. The last one is good for any player.

What is even the point of the Bard? Their role as a buffer can easily be taken by almost any other spellcaster, and a lot of them can do it better. Why do we still have these, besides tradition?

Bards are jacks of all trades. Large number of skill points (skill monkey). They get Bardic Knowledge for knowledge checks. Lore Master and Jack of all trades only compounds on this.

Bards are 6th level casters that can wear armor, have medium BA, and a decent list of weapons they can use. Their spell list is great. Bards have great archetypes. And last but not least they have Bardic Performance... one of the best buffs in the game and unique to the class and one archtype for one other class. Few classes can be as good at buffing and still bring other things to the table. I dont care for them, but that doesn't meant they aren't very effective at what they do.... support others.

I can never spell that right, it feels like it should be sorcerOr. But besides some of the bloodlines, and getting Eschew Materials for free, why pick this when the wizard can have as many spells as he damn well pleases?

Well this is really a complex answer I will dumb down.

1. Sorcs are Iconic fantasy classes that alot of people enjoy.
2. You trade utility for being able to cast what you need when you need it. There is no wishing you had memorized two X spells instead of X and Y. You have at your disposal your entire known spell list. You trade in the ability to cast everything for the ability to cast a limited list whenever you want to. Its that simple.
3. They allow you to have a high CHA (charismatic) caster to RP with. For some, giving up a bit of power for the ability to play a hansom/pretty and suave character is a good trade off.
4. Some bloodlines give you abilities and RP that a wizard cant duplicate.

I am completely confused as to the pros and cons of getting a bonded object vs getting a familiar. How does the familiar help you? The rules and Treantmonk's guide aren't exactly that clear on the matter, so I remain perplexed.

1. There are several Iconic wizards that have their power tied to a specific item. Thats the main reason for this choice

2. A bonded object can be used once per day to cast any one spell that the wizard has in his spellbook and is capable of casting, even if the spell is not prepared. Thats pretty powerful.
3. Familiars are just as powerful. You get a bonus to a skill or check. You get a free feat(Alertness). It has skill points and can use them for your benefit. Certain familiars can use wands and such. And again they are iconic to several wizards.

Ultimately there both solid. Its a choice the player needs to make based on what they want.

Again, why do we have this? It's like a divine bard, so she has the same problems.

Wow. They are not divine bards. They are beast. The Bane ability means they are great for damage. They have a decent to great spell list. They can be the out of combat healer and still deal damage. They have HUGE RP value based on what deity you choose. The judgements can really bring the pain. The only negative for them is they dont have a decent archer build/archtype.

Witch: Much like the sorc, I'm not sure what the benefits of the witch vs. the wizard are.

1. RP. So much flavor in this class. Just look at the Hexs. They alone should give you a reason to play them.

2. Speaking of Hexes... they never run out of things to do... even if they run out of spells.
3. They have a unique spell list that gives you spells from the wizard and druid list. I personally like it.
4. Based on your Parton you can fulfill a lot of rolls.
5. Some of the most powerful and cool archtypes. Beast-bonded alone is so good it might be OP. You are basically immortal at 10th level as a Beast-bonded witch. Name another class that lives forever after level 10.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

1 person marked this as a favorite.

This is why I hate paladins in 3.5/PF. The Code screws you without providing any true benefit over other classes. And you have lose lose situations like this...

A. Paladin refuses to kill the evil prisoners till they are dragged back to town and given a trial. He is so frustrating... how do we get rid of the him!

Or

B. Paladin slaughtered the evil prisoners! Im writing a letter to his superiors, petitioning the DM that he should fall, and never going to help the Paladin in combat again! Jerk!

Literally you cant win with some groups... its not if the Paladin gets screwed... its when. I have seen some of the most ticky tacky crap called on Paladins. In my games I completely overhauled them. Paladin is a 10 level cleric prestige class. You can be LG, CG, LE, or CE based on your deity. And the code is much more forgiving. It really takes some blatant and repeated acts to fall. In its RAW form... none of my Players would touch a paladin.

As for the OP: Your a CN Ninja. RP a CN Ninja. You shouldn't care one way or the other. Let him do him, and you do you.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

If encounters are too easy, that is a failure of the GM to adapt to the party, and often is easily overcome - sometimes it really is as simple as "add more enemies", especially if the players are typically one-shotting your mooks. Worried that they will then get too much xp? Change the way you award XP.

This is exactly why i have dropped xp all together. There is no point to it. Its not used in crafting or spell casting like 3.5 anymore. Modules tell you when a group is supposed to level. And I don't have dumb rules like characters coming in at different levels or earning xp separate from the group.

I simply award a new level to the party when its appropriate in the campaign. This eliminates me tracking xp and I don't have to worry about throwing extra encounters or mobs in a fight.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

My general point in this conversation is this...

90% of RP comes from backstory, character personality/Ideals, and the occassional skill point. None of that effects your ability to optimize. The other 10% can be stat allocation if you have a drastically low or high stat.

You dont need an 18 int to be smart. You dont need a 18 Cha to be charismatic. A base human has a 10 int. In real life terms most of us in this discussion have between a 10 - 13 int. And thats not a knock on people. I tend to believe most people who post on these forums to be very smart. They just aren't Albert Einstein(18-20 int imo) Most professional atheletes have a 15 or 16 str/dex. A 12 in any stat can be "RP'ed" as being sufficiently good at that stat.

So baring some crazy character concept I cant see why you cant be optimized and RP at the same time. It totally depends on how much mastery you have of the PF system. So if you want your Paladin to be the Einstein of Paladins... sure you might have issues. If you just want a "smart and cultured" paladin... your stats wont be an issue.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Rynjin wrote:

15 pt buy is a bit difficult but here goes:

Str: 11
Dex: 18 (Human race mod)
Con: 12
Int: 12
Wis: 8
Cha: 12

He's a decent archer at 1st level and will only get better with time at both investing his skill points into his skills and his Feats into Archery.

Yes, that works. The risk is large though that it will feel completely irrelevant in combat compared to the St14/De14/Co13/In12/Wi12/Ch20 synthesist with three attacks and pounce and next to the St22/De14/Co18/In7/Wi13/Ch7 barbarian that attacks with +6 (2d6+9).

LOL. Of course it would fall short of that Synthesist or barbarian. You are taking the extreme stat dumping side of things. We said optimized... not super cheesy min max. The Syth alone is what... a 32 point buy vs a 15. The point stands. You gave the lowest acceptable point buy and extremely specific criteria and we still provided a build. The fact it doesn't hold up vs Cheese builds has nothing to do with it.

Ilja wrote:

...

15pb isn't the smallest, it's the standard, listed together with 10 for low, 20 for high and 25 for "epic".

And I don't see how this disagrees with my point at all. My point is simple: Some character concepts don't lend themselves to optimizing very well. That was the point I made, and dragonmedrake disagreed with that stance. This was an example of such a concept.

Of course there are an endless number of character concepts that don't work very well for optimization, especially if bringing in characters that have a crippling weakness as part of their concept. This was just a simple example.

A 10 point buy? Now your really stretching. 20 is used in PFS. Im pretty sure thats as "Standard" as you can get... no matter what they are listed at. And the fact is we still provided a decently optimized build that fit all your criteria on a 15 point buy.

And as to the endless concepts... Im very tempted to create a new tread just to see how many concepts we can't optimize... Im guessing none.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

1 person marked this as a favorite.

This is such a vague and situational question. There really is no right answer.

How often do you summon?
What else do you want to do?
What would you have to sacrifice to get those 2 feats?
What is the rest of the party make up?
What AP/campaign are you in?
What type of mobs do you usually fight?
How many mobs are in an average encounter?
How much wealth do you have to throw at the issue?
Ect, ect, ect

There isn't a clear cut answer. Its up to the individual to look at how often the feat will come in handy in the situations he will find himself and his party. That pretty much goes for half the feats in the game.

Augment Summoning is one of those for a non-dedicated summoner.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Dragonamedrake wrote:

I don't think I could disagree with you more. There is no reason that any character concept cant be optimized to be effective for combat. It might not be a dps powerhouse but it will buff/cc/heal/tank/ect. Something.

Many concepts just doesn't lend itself well to combat optimizing over the level of say the Iconics. The intelligent paladin who for RP reasons is also a master poet, dancer and cook (and because of this has lower physical scores to afford the intelligence and less feats to afford good skill scores) will have quite a hard time at low levels in a group that has to have encounters at CR+2 constantly to remotely challenge the superoptimized synthesist.

Again I disagree. I will use your example. The Intelligent Paladin.

Human Paladin (20 Point Buy)
STR: 16 (+2 Race) DEX: 12 CON: 14 INT: 12 WIS: 7 CHA: 16

There you go. Intelligent Paladin. Average intelligence is 10. You dont need an 18 to RP being smart. The rest of your example are just skill points. Paladin's dont need a ton of combat skill points. Place a few points in Perform and Profession (Cook) and there you go. An effective start at a Combat effective paladin who is Intelligent and loves to dance and cook.

I have yet to see a character concept that cant be optimized to be effective in combat. In fact that might make for an interesting new Thread. People post random Character Concepts and the optimizers on the board make builds. I doubt you would stump the board.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

There is no reason you cannot make a well-optimized character also well-roleplayed. However, not all character concepts are able to be optimized.

Basically, optimization doesn't prevent roleplay but it drastically reduces the amount of different types of characters you can play.

I don't think I could disagree with you more. There is no reason that any character concept cant be optimized to be effective for combat. It might not be a dps powerhouse but it will buff/cc/heal/tank/ect. Something.

As others have pointed out. I have seen "I RP instead of optimize" as just another way of saying "I'm not very good at coming up with decent builds".

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Looks like a decent Fighter (archer)build to me. Its a straight class with what seems normal feat choices. It seems the player didnt do anything cheesy. He just made a solid archer. On top of that the poster has mentioned several times that he buffs the archer.

A reasonably well build fighter archer with a pocket buffer is going to wreck things. Whats the issue? The DM should hit his weaknesses more and throw things at the party that work well for the other characters strengths. The OP needs to realize he is buffing an archer which does really good damage if the DM doesn't understand how to combat against archers.

If anything the DM should give the other characters a chance to retool their characters if they want... or throw more RP encounters if they don't want to combat such things. All I hear so far is "We built our characters for RP and not combat... its not fair he is better then us at combat!"

Let him shine at combat. If you built your character for RP then you should shine there. Simple as that. Buff him and let him go crazy. Let the DM figure out how to make the combat last more then 2 rounds (Toughness, More flunkies, terrain, concealment, or just get up in his grill more often and make him move)

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I really enjoy the good old fashion Ranger archer.

Near the same damage as the other dedicated archers
Can cast up to 4th level spells
Nice skill list and number of skill points.
Decent abilities outside Archery
Really nice pet you can put between yourself and the bad guy.

Not to mention its got that classic Archer feel.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Well you have

Healing/CC/Arcane Caster
DPS/buffing/Divine Caster
DPS/Scout/Divine Caster
DPS/Arcane Caster

You have most of your bases covered. You could go with a melee tank or a face. Trapfinder type (rogue or alchemist), Tank (Fighter/Barbarian/Paladin), Face (Bard/Sorc/Rogue/ect).You dont have a High CHA caster in the group. I understand that is a nice thing to have in Kingmaker. So I would suggest a Bard or a Sorc.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Some very good advice. I think I'll talk to the player and basically tell him:

"Yes, you can technically force the demon to profane gift you, but I'm going to role-play that succubus as CE and she will suggest things to you constantly until she is bored and decides to drop the profane gift, thereby dropping your CHA"

Since he is a demoniac with high knowledge:Planes, shall I inform him that he would have absolutely zero power over the succubus unless he can learn her true name, and possibly would never be able to summon the profane gift-er again?

I mean I can empathize with the player that got this new ability and thinks "hey, I can totally do something new and cool!" but at the same time I don't want to just screw him over with a permanent CHA drain.

Perhaps I could meet somewhere in the middle. Allow him to gain the boon once or twice for a temporary time, while dropping the CHA for a temporary time.

My end goal is so the player can have fun, but I don't want him to turn into a succubus profane-gift generating font.

I can totally understand you wanting to let your player have fun. Thats the main job of a DM... to make it fun for your players. But you should also have fun. On top of that there should be consequences for actions in your game. After all, if you treat your players with kid gloves they will more then likely abuse that coddling.

My suggestions:

1. Defenitly give your player a Knowledge(of the Planes) check to realize he might be in trouble if he does what he wants.

2. If he follows through I would suggest spending a few game sessions using suggestion to mess with him. Start simple like inappropriate comments to friends... saying mean or cruel things to them. Then start having suggestions to do small evil things (kick puppies, spit on homeless, laugh at allies wounds). Finally have suggestions that are truly evil (attack allies during combat, steal, murder,ect).

3. At some point the PC should realize how badly he has messed up and will want to fix this. Give him another Knowledge check to realize that a Protection from Evil will temporarily remove the link and protect him from the suggestions.

4. This should anger the Succubus enough the first time used to cause her to remove her gift. Roll the drain as intended.

This might seem harsh. And it is. But its not a bad idea for several reasons. First your player is playing a Demoniac PC. There should be times he gets burned. This is a perfect lesson that his path is fraught with chances to loose himself if he doesn't tread carefully. It adds a bit of danger to his choices... that's cool. Second it makes sure he knows that doing abusive things in your game can and will be countered.

NOW. After that's done.

1. You can throw him a boon by offering a cheap restoration spell either through a friendly NPC or item that will give him his CHA back. Lesson learned and he didn't get a permanent negative.

2. Either in game or off to the side let him know that there are ways to get what he desired. But they take a lot more work then a simple summons. You can even give him the chance to research the True Name of the Succubus that burned him after he can use the Binding spell... so he can get some payback and actually bind the Succubus to his service for a year and a day.

You just...

Taught him a lesson
Gave him extra danger and RP for his class
Gave him a goal to work toward
And gave him the chance to get a pet in later levels.

Its a win win and something that should be a fun story later on.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Well the Wizard Father could have a rival witch who secretly mentors his student in the ways of the witch...

Think Sword in the stone.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Ahh, I see. I missed that it was the Geas you gave her. That's a pretty brutal mess. Not at all what the OP's player is doing.

No he isn't lol and I think we have the same idea as to how it would play out. She would use suggestion to screw him until she got bored and then drop the no save 2d6 CHA drain on him for being dumb for trying to pull a fast one on an immortal ancient being of evil that was deceiving beings of immense power when his great great grandmother was still in a cradle.

You don't make deals with demons/devils unless you hold all the cards... and cheat for good measure... even then its risky.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Why would she want water? They don't eat or drink... If anything you just bore her and make her like you less. Hostile is not very negotiable, and they always seemed like the evil plotting type.

Personally, I'd love to roleplay someone with commentary from a succubus. That just sounds fun. Especially if it benefits both of you consistently.

Why do I care if she wants water or not? Its a Geas. She is compelled to drink the water. If the subject is prevented from obeying the geas/quest for 24 hours, it takes a -3 penalty to each of its ability scores. Each day, another -3 penalty accumulates, up to a total of -12. That is the point. She can't leave the circle and therefore cant complete the Geas lowering her stats and her saves.

It can be anything. "Go lick the wall" can work just as well. She cant leave the circle so she can't lick the wall. Get it?

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Orc - Strength of the Beast (Ex)and Power of Giants (Sp)

Arcane - Arcane Bond (Su) and School Power (Ex)

Abyssal - Claws (Su), Demon Resistances (Ex), and Strength of the Abyss (Ex)

Those are the one's I would look at.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I have a player that is playing a Demoniac prestige class and he has reached the level where he can begin to summon various types of demons to the prime material plane.

He desires to summon a succubus and have her bestow him with a +2 to constitution using the "profane gift" ability.

Would this be a proper usage of the power to summon and what would be the implications of summoning a succubus to the PMP for a few rounds, receive the profane gift, and then send her back to the abyss.

LOL I wish a player would try this in my game. He better be very VERY careful in how he pulls it off. Here is why.

I assume the summoning will be through Summon Monster. Using this you get the service of a random Succubus without the knowledge of her "True Name" Without her true name you have zero power over her after the summons is over. While it is active you can compel her to use her abilities that don't involve planar travel or summoning other creatures... so yes he could compel her to use her profane gift. Now lets look at that ability.

Profane Gift (Su)

Once per day as a full-round action, a succubus may grant a profane gift to a willing humanoid creature by touching it for 1 full round. The target gains a +2 profane bonus to an ability score of his choice. A single creature may have no more than one profane gift from a succubus at a time. As long as the profane gift persists, the succubus can communicate telepathically with the target across any distance (and may use her suggestion spell-like ability through it). A profane gift is removed by dispel evil or dispel chaos. The succubus can remove it as well as a free action (causing 2d6 Charisma drain to the victim, no save).

So you get the +2 Con. You dismiss her. Now... Now you have a very evil and spiteful demon that can telepathically whisper to you AND use SUGGESTION on you AT WILL whenever she wants. You will be her play toy. You will be very very screwed... until she gets bored or your dead. Either way she can remove her gift any time she see's fit and you take 2d6 Charisma drain with no save.

Is this a tactic that should work without any hitches to bestow a profane gift to each member of the party? Is the succubus automatically compelled to bestow this gift on the summoners whims?

So yes it will work. No it does not come without hitches lol. It will bite him hard if the DM plays it correctly.

What if a different demoniac summons the succubus in a different location and requires the same? Is there a % to roll to see the odds of that happening daily?

No there is no roll. The succubus can bestow her gift to as many people as she wants... Once a day.

I can see the profane gift ability being flavorful when using the succubus as an NPC or as a monster that is designed to ingratiate a potential victim into serving the succubus, but as a method for increasing ability scores I don't see that as a particularly viable way to go about it.

What are your thoughts?

As stated... no it is not viable. There is only ONE way you can really get the gift without a hitch. You have to use the spell Binding. Here is a sample guide to Binding a Succubus from Treantmonk's old Malconvoker guide. Its 3.5 but most of it is still viable for binding a demon.

So you want to bind a Succubus, but the 26 CHA scares you? Here's what you do (lets assume you are a conjurer with a 10 CHA):

You are at least 8th level - so pony up the 4,500 and get a circlet of persuasion.
Cast Magic Circle against evil. Use Spellcraft to fortify it.
Cast Binding - call the Succubus.

Cast a Geas on her first thing. "Drink a glass of water from the pitcher over there." Point to a pitcher outside the circle. Wait 4 days.

Cast Eagle's splendor before you return.

Now hit her with Bestow Curse. Her saves are currently at -8 (total will save -1). As long as you peirce SR you are golden (if not - cast again!). Suddenly her saves/checks are at -12

Now hit her with Cause Fear. Now she's frightened (or shaken if by some miracle she saves). Her ability checks are now at -14

Time to propose a deal. No reason to make it lovely. Ask her to serve you for the remainder of the spell - to follow all your commands, in both word and intent, to never take action that could harm you, and to give you her true name. - and she will be released at the end of the spell. This is a crappy deal for her - so you get no bonus to negotiation.

Her negotiate modifier: -6
Your negotiate modifier: +5

You should win.

If there's any doubt - go ahead and pony up 3000 gp for a Moment of Prescience scroll. It's a one shot deal - but the additional +16 to your roll makes this a sure thing.

Once she agrees -drop the cause fear, the curse, and the circle (so she can have her drink of water). She's back to normal.

Now you give her the warning. "I know your true name now - if you ever screw me over - during the duration of the spell, or afterwards - I'll use it to summon you again. I'll also cast again and summon an IMP. I'll give the imp this deal - "do whatever you want to this succubus for the duration of the spell - and I expect nothing in return.", you'll be defensless in one of those circles you were just in, but I'll let him out of his, I expect the Imp will take the deal - I get the impression they have LOADS of built up hostility."

As you can see this will give you her True name. Then you can truly screw her if she takes away her gift or uses her suggestion power. This is the only viable way and its pretty hard. If a player went to this length for a +2 to a stat... I would allow it. Otherwise I would screw the holy heck out of him for trying without preparing.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

LOLZ

I think there is alot of reasons to use larger weapons I wouldnt use it because I waned a black blade and the scimitar is the most simple option to get 15-20 crit even though its only a D6 that but gets multiplied alot sooner than 17-20 with a bastard swod who is only 1d10 the difrence between 1d6 and 1d10 is only a slight difrence in the early lvl's once you reach lvl 5 and up the DPR on 1d6 (15-20) and 1d10(17-20) is neglageble.

because at lvl 5 you are shocking grasping for 5d6 damage :-) and I can do it all day long (7-14 times) with 3 pearls of power and 7 points of arcane pool although when I use my points to make my weapon keen it ofcourse decreases :-)

Dont forget Intensify metamagic and the trait Magical Lineage...

At 10th you have a 10d6 Shocking grasp that is still a first level spell.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Well as far as what is affordable.

Obviously adding bonuses to your Mithral armor would be the cheapest route. As stated before adding agile to the rogues armor might be a nice addition if his Dex is higher then the current allowed max Dex bonus. I assume you're Dex is within the limit.

Other than that your looking at more expensive Items...

Rings of Protection (Rings are expensive)
A +4 Dex item instead of a +2 (Just adds 1 to your AC + expensive)
Feat Chains (probably unavailable this late)
Bracers of Natural Armor (This might actually be affordable)
Several Ion stones will give you a bonus.

You might also look into spells that can make it harder for you to get hit. Something as simple as Blink can do wonders.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Could you have it take a book full of explosive runes next to a target and read the first rune.... BOOM

Not sure if it works or not.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

1 person marked this as a favorite.

38. Back rub
39. Foot rub
40. Fetch Arrows from the battle field
41. Loot bodies on battle field
52. If being tracked by sent have the US take a piece of clothing in another direction

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Well I really don't see that rogue as underpowered... but if you want to give them a decent buff.

1. Give them Fighter BAB.

2. Give them a Rogue talent that can be taken after 7th level that lets them use Dex to damage instead of Str.

Done and Done. Less issue hitting and less MAD. I honestly cant think of any reason why they would need any more buffs than that.

Currently rogues suffer both in and out of combat. In combat offensively he lacks the opportunity to land his SA frequently enough. Defensively his poor hp and AC makes him a easy target. Out of combat rogue suppose to be the best skill user but in reality he get matched or even surpassed by other classes. Everyone has his skill rank capped at level+3+ability modifier + feats anyway, so a rogue sneaking is no better than a wizard if the wizard max out his sneak and get a sneaking trait.

First off. I think the rogue can hit with SA plenty if played right. He has D8 HP and his most important stat adds to AC. HP and AC might be a challenge, but its far from a WEAKNESS. He simply has average in both compared to most classes. Sure the wizard can be as sneaky as the rogue if he invest a ton of points into the skill and invest feats and points in Dex. Thats INTENDED. You are supposed to be able to branch out into other things if you invest into it. The rogue can do the same with UMD and wands/staffs/scrolls.

So I propose following fixes:
1. Make rogue easier to qualify for flanking. Rogue from lvl X onwards can flank a enemy as long as the flanking partner is not adjacent to him, or even remove the restriction at higher level, making rogue show his worth as long as there’s another friendly adjacent to the target.

Why adjacent foes need to be able to be flanked by rogues I'm not sure... too lazy to make the extra 5 foot step? There should be some challenge. It shouldn't be an automatic thing.

2. Defensive roll which works like mounted combat, allow rogue using opposing acrobatic check to negate physical attack, X times per round, with X increasing with rogue level

Terrible. They don't suffer from poor AC to begin with. And dodging attacks MULTIPLE times a round? Are you serious? There is an extensive feat chain you can take to get ONE attack dodged a round... and you take negatives to hit while using it. No... just no.

3. Better skill user. Allow rogue to choose one class skill as his favored skill and add half his class level on it, and then allow the rogue to chose more favored skill as he levels.

The rogue already has a decent skill list and the highest number of skills per level. They need zero help in this department. As above. Just cause a wizard can become good at sneaking doesn't mean the rogue is broken. That wizard would have to invest into making it work. And sneak is already high enough. No need to give him such a bonus that its impossible to spot him.

4. Modify rogue talents to apply various conditions like shatter armor(AC penalty), negate DR on his SA without sacrificing SA dice. Making rogue’s combat role support fighter and condition inflictor.

Wow. This last one ranges from decent to downright overpowered. However if you really want you can add all the rogue talents you want. I personally think the talents are fine as is.

Over all your suggestions would take him from where he is (Underpowered to Average)to a whole different level of overpowered. There is no need. Those two simple changes alone will fix any issue he might have. No need to go overboard.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Cant a Summoner make their pet Undead?

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Sam is correct. He was a Fighter/Barb/Ranger... just another example of the horrid mish mash builds some of the BIG heroes had.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Create water.... alot

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Dragonamedrake wrote:

There is no such thing as a broken class... only broken games. Any and Every class can be the catalyst for a broken game if allowed to do so. Its the job of the DM to make sure this doesn't happen. If you police your players its impossible to create a broken class.

I do police my players; I don't let them take broken classes. I completely fail to understand why you would play a game with this elaborate system of CRs and levels and XP if you didn't believe that it mattered.

I can't tell from your response if you agree or disagree with me lol. You say you police your game ... so your doing exactly the right thing... hence there shouldn't be a broken class.

I will give a perfect example.

I had a 3.5/Pathfinder mix game. High power. High Min/Max. I told them to bring it on. I had a cleric who took my PF conversion Paladin Prestige class. He had a 3.5 feat that let him memorize wizard spells(Sword of the Arcane Order). He was a full Cleric caster, with Paladin abilities, and he could memorize wizard spells. I was ok with all of it. Had no issue... except for one thing. He had really REALLY good AC. It was hard to hit him.

Now I could have complained or thrown crazy fights that completely out played his CR and made it hard on the rest of the party ... or... surprise surprise... I talked to the player.

I said something like this "Hey man. Your AC is getting pretty high. I realize the party just came into a lot of gold and is heading back to town. I know you want to beef up your armor. Could you do me a favor and add armor abilities for now instead of straight + enhancements. Do that for a few levels and the mobs will have a chance to catch up in BAB to your AC and then you can add straight bonuses again.

He said something like "Yeah cool man. There are some sweet qualities I wanted to add anyways like shadow and stuff."

It was that simple. I talked to the player. We came to a compromise. And we kept playing. I could throw stuff at the party that could still have a chance at hitting him without also auto hitting everyone else. I still threw some grapples and touch attacks... but I didn't have to rely JUST on those.

Police your game. Talk to your people. Most classes will be fine.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

There is something to be said about being honest with deadly encounters. At least to the point to where your players believe they can die. After all if there is no threat of them loosing... whats the point? Your basically letting them play on easy mode with cheat enabled.

Nothing wrong with the occasional fudge when things go drastically wrong for the party... but making a habit of it can cause your party to fear nothing. If they fear nothing, then it takes the edge of the game away and will cause boredom for many groups.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

and in all those cases, the person post the build, and there is nothing wrong the class. and then people post a myraid of suggestions to easily deal with situation.

The master summoner however is not easily dealt, with, and it's not the players fault either, the class is flat out overpowered and when used corectly (meaning you do what the class says, and summon stuff) it is broken.

And in every "Summoner OMFG OP!" thread I have seen the same holds true. People give a myraid of suggestions on how to deal with them.

I dont want to turn this into ANOTHER summoner thread, but the only issue I have with the Master Summoner is his action economy. Not because its over powered, but because it bogs down combat to a crawl. Simply dont allow the Master Summoner archtype. Summoner's are fine. Even that archtype is fine if you have a player that has his summons written out and he is on top of his game when it comes to keeping a brisk pace.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Dragonamedrake wrote:

Wait... so you want to run a campaign with zero magic, but the RotR is based on a bunch of crazy old super casters.... how does that work?

No, the idea is a team from a land of no magic trying to put down a high magic threat. PCs could opt to pick a magic using class, it would just lack some benefits from being part of the initial Alkenstar group. Also alchemists really aren't that shabby as a substitute for a casting class.

It really is an experiment. If things go poorly, I will certainly let people change over if necessary.

Ahh gotcha now. Wasn't familiar with Alkenstar. That would work. I agree with others here. You can use the ability subs, but if I where in that group I would hire a Magic user post haste.

Sounds fun though. Good luck.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Dragonamedrake wrote:

Baron of the Sands wrote:

What do you think are the most powerful or broken classes in Pathfinder? explain why you think so.

There is no such thing as a broken class... only broken games. Any and Every class can be the catalyst for a broken game if allowed to do so. Its the job of the DM to make sure this doesn't happen. If you police your players its impossible to create a broken class.

i disagree, i don't think even if you tried you could make a broken martial class.

honestly the only close to broken class, is the "master summoner". If you use it with the eidelon, it's fine, but if the player realizes that the eidelon is actually a nusiance, then the class can quickly spiral out of control.

There are no broken classes so yes... it is impossible to create a broken martial class. There are DM's who dont know how to handle some martial classes... if you disagree, I will simply point you at the treasure trove of threads where DM's are complaining they can't handle so in so martial class. Usually there is a thread a few post down complaining about how weak the same class is.

There are no bad classes. Just bad DM's who dont have control of their game. Now are there weak classes? That might be a valid question.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Ok, I have a rather funky idea for a campaign, and I need some information.

Up front the premise is to take a team from Alkenstar and run Rise of the Runelords. This would mean a team lacking in any spellcasters. I would allow alchemists (and turn their abilities to Supernatural).

What I need to know is what classes and archetypes could be considered as valid coming from a place where magic doesn't occur...

Wait... so you want to run a campaign with zero magic, but the RotR is based on a bunch of crazy old super casters.... how does that work?

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

1 person marked this as a favorite.

What do you think are the most powerful or broken classes in Pathfinder? explain why you think so.

There is no such thing as a broken class... only broken games. Any and Every class can be the catalyst for a broken game if allowed to do so. Its the job of the DM to make sure this doesn't happen. If you police your players its impossible to create a broken class.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

james maissen wrote:

Honestly one things that is typically done for 'simplicity' is the summoner controling the summons, but in all honesty that's what the DM should do. They are NPCs.

I've seen a lot of players really take advantage of summoned creatures as if there is some mental network between the caster and all the creatures. I strongly agree with James that summoned creatures should be considered NPCs.

Remember that casters cannot direct a summoned creature unless they can communicate with them. At low levels, many of the summoned creatures are animals with no languages.

Another aspect is that players coordinate between their summoned creatures too much (again, as if there is some mental network happening). Have some of the other players roll attacks, damage, saves, etc for the summoned creatures, but the GM should handle the tactics.

And when the combat has finished, maybe have the summoned wolves start eyeing up the summoned dire rats (mmm, dinner).

Unfortunatly you (and others on the thread)have a few things off a bit... From the PRD on Summon Monster I.

This spell summons an extraplanar creature (typically an outsider, elemental, or magical beast native to another plane).

1. It appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn.

2. It attacks your opponents to the best of its ability.

3. If you can communicate with the creature, you can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions.

1. So summoned creatures act on the casters initiative. They dont use their own initiative unless combat ends and a new initiative is rolled.

2. It will only attack your opponents. Your dire rat summons are not opponents... if you have them attack random allies your nerfing the spell and the class.

3. You can communicate/direct the actions of your summons as long as you have a way to communicate. This can be done several ways. If you share a common language is the biggest. In the case of low level animal summons you can use a DC 20 Handle Animal check to direct it to attack a specific creature. I you summon said creature directy adjacent to your target and he is the closest enemy then there should be no need for a check.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Hello all and thanks for any advice or tips regarding the following situation.

Gnome Summoner (Master Summoner)
Gnome Rogue, but will be going Summoner (Synthesist) from 2nd level on
Warforged Artificer
Human Paladin

I would suggest a few things....

1. Ask the Master Summoner if he would be ok with playing a normal Summoner. They are limited to only having one Summons or thier pet out at once. This will cut down on number of creatures he has to roll for and help quicken your combat rounds.

2. Check, Double Check, and Check again the Synthesist. They can easily be built wrong. This doesn't mean your player is cheating. The rules for Synthesist can be confusing. Alot of this is due to how unique the class is though. Its less powerful then a normal Summoner so I would allow it... just check his math.

3. Are you using the 3.5 Artificer, the 3rd party Converstion for Pathfinder, or a homebrew conversion? You can find a list of Converstions (Including mine :D )HERE.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Cleric vs Oracle?
Wizard vs Sorc?

Who cares. They both get 9th level spells! Its like asking whats worse... getting hit by a 9.5 earthquake or a Nuke... either way your dead.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

When you build a character you come up with a backstory as to why he adventures.

When the DM builds an NPC he comes up with a backstory as to why the NPC is who he is.

----------------------------

Why then is it a great leap for people that the Player and DM set down and write a backstory as to why the cohort doesnt get a share of the loot and instead is given gear from the players share?

On a side note: Is it fair if the Cohort gets an even share? Well thats up to the group. The DM just hands out the loot. The group should decide where it goes. If everyone at the table is ok with the cohort getting that +1 Breastplate cause noone wants it they whats the big deal? If party members do care... then the player with Leadership should have that backstory ready to go.

Honestly sometimes I think Teamwork/Communication is becoming a lost art.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Maybe its my military background or the group I learned to play with, but some of the responses I have heard here kinda turn my stomach.

I host the game
I provide the snacks
I buy all the Modules and Books
I spend my time creating extra material/NPCs
I flesh out the world/campaign
I DM the game

Yes I feel more then entitled to make rules, set standards, ect.

There are classes I dont want in my game... it could be because I feel they are overpowered (underpowered), dont fit my campaign, or because, as a DM, I have trouble dealing with them. I set the Point Buy. I decide what rules we use, which are waved, and what costume homebrew we use. These are my decisions because I am taking the time to run the game. If someone doesn't like it then they are more then welcome to step up and DM, or find a different DM. Thats my opinion.

Now that doesn't make me a Tyrant. There are few classes I ban (Gunslingers are the only constant). I use a 20 point buy (Used to roll stats - talk about nashing of teeth when I changed that). I am open to homebrew or makeing custom stuff to help a player flesh out a concept. I have set down and created a custom prestige class for a player so he could play *insert consept*. I allow all PF books exept for custom Races. I will even consider old 3.5 material if it doesnt break the game. Basicly I am wide open.

But if I do decide that something doesnt work, or that something is too odd to be included... I expect it to be accepted. Sure players moan and groan at times... but they accept it and move on. After all... the alternative is to find a new group or start your own. Same goes for rules. If a rule comes up and no one at the table knows the answer off the top of their heads... I make a ruling. If you disagree you can show me the rule after the game and we can discuss it. If your right I can retcon if it caused an issue, or just keep it in mind for the future if it wasn't that impactful.

I dont mind listening to my players opinions
I like feedback on how Im doing
I want my players to have fun... thats number one
I want my players to feel have characters they feel are heroic and cool.
Im open to most concepts.

But I still think that someone needs to be in charge. And that someone is the DM. My 2 cents.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

It is amazing that this thread has gotten to over 1k responses when AD killed the whole debate with like the 3rd response. Interesting.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The best options are classes that share similiar stats and that shore up each others weakness. A class that has straight BAB, Good HP and a class that has good utility.

Fighter/cleric

Not bad. You have the Feats combat of a Fighter and the pre combat buffing of the cleric.

Monk/wizard

Terrible. Just Terrible. MAD as stated earlier. Both have weak BAB, so so HP, and neither complement the other.

Wizard/sorceror

Again, not that great. Sure you can cast all day long but it adds nothing a straight Wizard or Sorc can usually pull off. You have low HP, and low BAB.

I would suggest looking at the following.

Fighter/Paladin - You get the self healing and Burst DPS of a Paladin, with the Feats and Steady Combat DPS of a Fighter.

Sorc/Paladin - Shared stat priorities. Healing and Arcane casting. Great saves. Great HP. You cant wear Armor however.

Oracle/Sorc - Now your talking. Shared Stats and Divine and Arcane Casting.

Wizard/Magus - now we are talking. You can cast in Armor. You can Full attack and cast 9th level spells (in the same round) Better BAB, and Better HP then a straight Wizard. And much better casting for your Magus.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Thankfully I have never had this issue because my group tends to be XP/Loot hoars (myself included). Usually they do things the hard way on purpose to gain the most xp.

My next game will be XP free. We will level when the AP decree's it time. Because XP is no longer used in spellcasting or crafting there is little to no reason to keep it around.

This wont change my groups mindset Im sure though... after all there is still loot on those bodies.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Exiled Prince wrote:

well see this was a Castles and Crusades game until SOMEONE just had to switch to Pathfinder.

Seriphim84 wrote:

Unfortunately out of principle I can't help you create really long turns.

Gotta be honest, this sounds like a temper tantrum in response to switching systems, to me.

If you don't wanna play PF, I'd just say drop out rather than try to pull something like stupid-long turns as a protest. Just my 2cp.

Agree with this 100%. Secondly, its very odd to come to the official PF forums to complain about having to switch to PF. Obviously the posters here are fans of PF and will have little sympathy.

I would suggest you find a class that sounds fun. Keep an open mind. And try to have fun instead of ruining everyone elses.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Spellslinger 1/ Crossblooded (Orc/Draconic)Sorc 19 works well too.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

From the PRD...

Lycanthropic Player Characters

When a PC becomes a lycanthrope, you as the GM have a choice to make. In most cases, you should take control of the PC's actions whenever he is in hybrid or animal form—lycanthropy shouldn't be a method to increase a PC's power, after all, and what an afflicted lycanthrope does while in animal or hybrid form is often at odds with what the character would actually want. If a player wants to play a lycanthrope, he should play a natural lycanthrope and follow the guidelines for playing a character of a powerful race.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Two feats that are really good for a level 1 strength-based magus:

arcane strike
exotic weapon proficiency; katana

This. EWP Katana is awsome for a Str Magus.

Letting go of or gripping a sword with two hands is a free action. So you can wield your Katana two handed with all your strikes other then your extra attack you cast with.

Big jump in DPS. Take power attack, Weapon Focus, and Arcane strike later. Toughness if you have room.

If you need more 1st level spells get pearls of power. They are cheap.