From Another Thread
Mark Seifter wrote:
Dang It I got Ninja'd
Ryan Freire wrote:
Hey Ryan, guess what has Divine Grace, Antipaladin and Tyrant aka the CE & LE (respectively) Paladins.....
Unholy Resilience(Su): At 2nd level, an antipaladin gains a bonus equal to his Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.
So why aren't you letting other Paladins of other alignments have it? When other Paladins of Other Alignments Already Have It.
A Rose by any other name right?
So wait if everyone can make the Same number of Iterative Attacks, and every class has the same BAB(I Know I read this elsewhere on these Playtest Forums).......... Then aren't casters as good as Martials at Martial Combat? What the Actual Heck? I really hope there's Bonuses for Martials to Actual Martial Combat, and then some(cuz Spells are prolly still OP).......
the nerve-eater of Zur-en-Aarh wrote:
yeah and at what cost?
The Paladin doesn't need to change just because someone wants their powers without paying the price.
You say without paying the Price, I say that the Price should Indeed be the Code of Conduct and an Alignment Restriction to Only Good. You Say the whole Sacred Cow about wanting the Power w/out paying the Price But I've Already proven in another thread, and other people have said here that that CAN'T Be the Case because of Antipaladin having those exact same powers you cry out that noone else should Have or opposing powers(their Mercies, their Auras, having Divine Grace by another name etc.). If you allow for the Antipaladin and the Tyrant, why would you possibly not allow a CG to Counter the LE, which the LG Paladin Can't do in Every Scenario...
There's honestly Just No Understanding You.
You Also talk about the Shooting Star Feat, yes I understand that's a Thing in 1E, there's a Good possibility if they make a CG Paladin in 2E that they WON'T Make that Feat alongside it..... And To Be Honest, I DON'T Give a Flying Fudge About that Feat, I don't even know that the real name of it is, just that it keeps being brought up around CG Pallies.... There's Also the Fact that People Can Easily Disallow the Combination At Their Tables.
As for Divine Grace and Smite Evil, Antipaladin's Again HAVE Divine Grace and Smite Good!
The Paladin Needs to change, its Barely tied to Law right now, and the one tie in its Code of Conduct Forces a Paladin to stand by while Evil acts are being committed or Fall (because you can't respect a Legitimate Authority at the same moment that you are trying to overthrow its laws). If you don't Believe me go read my post up above as well as all of the Base Paladin Class in the Core Rulebook. Right now the Paladin screams of Good, but Not Law, and it Never will, just lip service, and an unneeded Alignment tie.
If you don't think that Chaotic Good can be honorable I dare you to besmirch the honor of Mahatma Ghandi and Robin Hood.
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING of the Paladin's Mechanics Other than its Alignment, Speaks ANYTHING of Being LAWFUL. ALL OF IT Screams of GOOD, Yes, But Not of LAW.
There's Literally Only one line in the fluff of the PF1 class that even says Anything that can Possibly be seen as Lawful, and that is:
Meanwhile In the Code of Conduct We Have: "Additionally, a paladin’s code requires that she respect legitimate authority" So Don't go telling me that A Paladin WOULDN'T Not be troubled with Torture, Capital Punishment, Slavery, Child Marriage, or FGM and Discrimination, WHEN Performed By a LEGITIMATE Authority.... Because if They Do Anything About It THEY WILL FALL, that is LITERALLY In their Code of Conduct, and It Really Shouldn't Be If They're the So Called Heroes and Paragons of VIRTUE that the LG-Only Criers Say they Are, AND IF YOU REMOVE that Part, then they have No More TRUE Adherence to LAW In their Code.
MEANWHILE IF they Say that the Authority isn't Legitimate WHEN IT IS They've Now Crossed Into Chaotic Good Territory, so Good Going! Liberation from Laws You Don't Agree With, is LITERALLY Chaotic Good's Schtick, And Against your Code of Conduct!
You Know Who's a Legitimate EVIL Authority that Paladin's Should be able to do NOTHING About? Cheliax.
I agree Vermin and Magical Beasts would be great forms for the Base Shifter to replace the Plant and Elemental Forms. If the base Shifter were to gain elemental forms, there'd honestly be no point in there being an Elemental Shifter Archetype which there Already Is One, so you're destroying an Already Existent Archetype to include Elemental Forms in the Base Shifter....
Basically by using the original wild shape BUT adding a small section to it (or just to Aspects instead) about how you can use the Major Aspect Forms (which are stronger than their base wild shape forms), and then write in the current FAQed version of the Uses Per Day for them in place of the older version's.
And if doing the whole Beast Shape 1, Beast Shape 2, and Beast Shape 3 tiering that the Druid does, the Large (and Tiny for Mouse) Major forms could start out as Medium(/Small) like the Owl does.
I 100% agree that Minor Aspects Need Much longer durations, minutes per day makes it rather pointless on a lot of them. As for the Needing more Aspects, I can totally get behind that, maybe every Odd level, that'd actually fill the currently empty 7th, 13th, & 17th levels, give us more versatility amongst our Wild Shaped forms, and we can only use a Max of 5 Aspects at a time, and that's at 20. Its also not like the Feral Hunter doesn't already get that many Minor Aspects (and our Aspects are about the same as theirs) and Permanently, till canceled, for one of them at a time.
Pre-Defined Aspects gives the class an Identity, instead of just being a Druid/Feral Hunter/Beast Shape spell line using Caster, Clone. It also gives them things you Can't Even Get w/ those base animals using Regular Wildshape. I can give you examples from every single one of the Aspects, if you'd like.
Edit1: What I'd argue we need, is Yes Definitely Chimeric Major Forms, BUT probably regular old wild shape WITH the Major Aspects on Top.... Then you'd be able to have the versatility that some want, and the more DEFINED Shifting Other's would like to keep as a defining feature of the Shifter.
Edit2: Though I'd also like to keep the uses per day of our Current Wild Shape after the Update FAQs.
Edit3: I'd also argue against things like Elementals, Plants, Magical Beasts, and maybe Vermin (I Love Vermin, really wish we had an archetype for them). Let those be the business of Archetypes, the Base Shifter is about Animals.
As for you saying you can stay in it all day. With an 18 Wisdom (+4), and +6 headband (+3) that is +7 hours; you'd have to be level 17 (or 11 if you didn't want to stay in form while sleeping 8 hours; which personally I'd rather stay in animal form especially if it gets a perception bonus) to stay in wild shape all day with those stats. Where as by 17th level as it is in the actual book; you'd have 7 uses per day each of those 17 hours. By the time you're 8th level normally you could be in Wild Shape all day; even if only 3 uses (or 4 with a druid vestament).
So my calculations are correct, for not sleeping in shape. Also the only shapes that are getting a bonus to Perception are: Corgi (for the hearing bonus), Falcon(but that's perception), and a bunch of others get Scent(but I'm not gonna count on my sense of smell when I'm sleeping). So I don't really see a bonus to your perception when you're sleeping by staying in form, unless you're gonna wild shape into a Corgi every night before bed, if you even take Corgi.
And again I counter your preference for Multihour wild shapes, with my being able to change between forms far more often.
As for the whole item problem, yeah I can see the problem and your point there.
Also I LOVE your idea for the Aspects, that makes tons of sense, could still work your Wild Shape off of the Aspects, but gives you Far more diversity in form! I honestly LOVE it. Though I honestly think the Evolution points should be a Separate ability that can work on you BECOMING the Chimera, an animal of Disparate parts..... Maybe make it so that certain Aspects can take certain Evolutions baseline, and when you get Chimeric, Greater Chimeric, and Final Aspect, you can combine a certain amount of evolutions from your choice of another aspect(then 3, then 5) can take, and add them to your beast. This is An AWESOME Idea!!!
Another idea I was thinking of, was that when you're in your Major Form, maybe allow your Minor Form to be constantly active during the duration without using time from your Minor Aspect.
@Roivan its Not +1 hour, its literally Shifter Level + Wisdom Bonus uses per day, at lvl 9 w/ an 18 in Wisdom and a +6 Headband if you nix the 8 hrs of sleep, you can stay shifted all day long if you want. BUT the purposes of the change isn't about staying in the same form, its so that you can change your form more easily on the fly. As it stands the Druid Version, doesn't really allow that, because of how FEW uses per day it actually has.
PS: I know I for one am building for Wisdom, because I want the Wild Shape feats that have high Wisdom requirements, more Wild Shapes per day, and a higher AC Bonus from Defensive Instinct.
Hell I have a lvl 12 Rogue/Alchemist (that I keep forgetting to use the Extracts on >.> I kinda treat her more like a Rogue, despite having far more levels in Alch >.>) that has Int and Dex in the mid 20s.
Honestly that's exactly how I read it. It doesn't say that you use more charges with Chimeric, it just says you can pick two aspects instead of one when you use a minor form.
Ultimate Wilderness pg 28 wrote:
Here's the thing though, the Firing of both barrels at once is Called an Attack Action, while the Condition for Vital Strike is "When you use the Attack Action." So if you fire both barrels of the DBP at once, you are specifically using the Attack Action, and since Vital Strike Triggers on the Attack Action, it should literally by RAW work. >.>
Also per the posted FAQ, it is the exact same action an Attack Action, soooo it Should Work. Since firing both barrels Should (because it is referenced in its description as one) Count as the Attack Action that Vital Strike Needs to work.
My post from earlier continued so you can react to it without changing your post:
Because right now, the Major Aspects are set up to give us stronger forms, but the set up also requires the ability to Tailor said forms to be stronger, which is why we unfortunately have fewer forms. If we had the same shifting as a Druid, we'd have Exactly the same forms they do, except without Plants and Elemental Forms.... Which would be boring, this spices things up, so that we're More than just the stat blocks of the different animals from the Bestiaries. We just need More Aspects to choose from, so we can build ourselves better.
Then again, maybe you're right, maybe we need Regular Wild Shape and then we can have Tailored Wild Shaping on top of it.... Only with more uses per day than the Druid.... That honestly isn't a bad idea.
Also I am going to bed, its 7 am here.
Honestly Wultram, the point of the Ability Bonuses is so you don't Need the belt and can put your money towards elsewhere, for example Wild Enchant on your armor. At least that's how I look at it, which to me just brings up the fact that we need more time per day on our Minor Aspects...
I also think I gave my stance on the needed Versatility of form that the Shifter needs. But, I do like that if the Druid and the Shifter were going at it like that, and they were only using the same forms, the Shifter would squash. That's what the Aspect set up and the change in uses per day does, we just need more Diversity in forms. And that will come with time, like more alchemist discoveries or rogue talents, right now, this is a good start.
Completely Agree on All of these Points.
Aspects: These are in no way shape or form balanced against each other. The enhancement bonus to stats is a huge mistake.(Who wants class abilities that are worthless?) You also get way too few and way too late.
This one Not so much, the enhancement bonuses are good, the real problem is the small amount of time you actually get to use them. That in my opinion is what can make them worthless, why couldn't they have had permanent until turned off like the Feral Hunter's?
These two are mostly being fixed in the errata, w/ Final Aspect, Wild Shape becomes At-Will so basically yeah, permanent and cancelable. For Wild Shape It basically is since their adding in Wisdom uses per day ontop of Class Level uses per day at lvl 4. On top of that the Forms that can be used are Stronger than the Druid's Animal Forms in the first place, just less versatility in what you can become and less length of time (the change is 1 hr uses, Class lvl + Wis Mod per day; vs the Druid's 1 limited uses but each one being a number of hours per day. This change will give the Shifter Far more versatility in which form their currently in. Also, hopefully the versatility of amount of Different forms will be somewhat fixed with increasing Aspect options in the future, I personally wanna become an Elephant.)
Greater chimeric aspect: Change this to allowing combination of 2 major aspects and you are onto something.
This I couldn't Agree with more!
Well played. <slow clap>
I don't know if that's a slow clap directed at me.... or at Giovanni... *looks at Orthos curiously*
Heather 540 wrote:
I never play with a set team and instead level up all of my pokemon evenly. Because of this, storywise, I only just beat that Totem Togemaru Trial. I'm getting all of my pokemon up to level 30 before I go any further. At least the Rotom EXP Power is making it quicker. But is it just me, or does the RotomDex just NOT shut up? It keeps giving me 'advice' every 5 seconds.
Not just you, that Rotom is Really Really Chatty, and when its not being Chatty, it looks all depressed.... Then again if I were a pokemon finally able to talk to Humans and have them understand me, I might be pretty chatty too.
I Finally finished Ultra Moon (Pokemon League and Team Rainbow Rocket) and my final team was Drapion(my starter), Flygon(a Fav), Lurantis(a Fav), Ribombee(the last of my captures from Melemele to stay on my team), Araquanid(Really good suggestion from a friend), and Forretress.
Really wish that Forretress had better Special Defense or Attack, but its got decent type coverage, really good Defense, and is only weak to Fire.... So it turned out to be a really decent addition to my team.
Oh also, funny thing happened, when I beat Giovanni I went and cleaned, fed, and pet my pokemon to happiness immediately after the fight "Like No Giovanni, I know you prolly wanna give some sorta speech or somethin, but you can wait for me to take care of my pokemon." And then when he gets to speak first thing he says is "...I see you have raised your pokemon with utmost care." Like damn right I did X3
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
Add in the fact that many aspects feel like their lesser forms (or even greater!) are meant for side-job utility and are thus off the table, you might feel locked in a metagame where the only options are Bull, Raptor, or Tiger if you want to remain effective.
Better Picture Bull! I think this better illustrates it next to the talking raptor and the toramimi(look up what a kemonomimi is).
I would definitely say that my top 5 Divine Casters would be Shaman(I Love this class to bits not cuz its a 9th level caster, but because of the Spirits), Oracles(Same reasons as the Shaman except I Love the Curses as well as the Mysteries), Reliquarian Occultists(because Implements are awesome), Hunters(for the Animal Companion Love!), and Inquisitors(for just being plain Fun).
I would Happily DM occult rules if my group wanted to play some occult classes. I honestly understood everything from first read, even the Medium back during the Playtest when they had Spirits based on the Harrow Deck. (God I wish that would have been able to fit, it was an AMAZING Concept. Since we didn't get all of the spirits revealed I can't even play with it either....)
That's a good point, I literally forgot about the fact that lances as a weapon have that benefit of doing double damage on a mounted charge, I guess I kinda derped there.
Benefit: A lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount. While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand
By what I'm reading there, dual wielded lances should get 2 doubled attacks because both are being slammed into the opponent with the momentum of the charge.... And that is literally what it says.
And if that's the case since Natural Attacks don't need to be drawn back, and a full routine of Talon/Talon/Bite/Foreclaw/Foreclaw would each get the full momentum of the charge, wouldn't they then all get the doubled damage? Just going by RAW? Its not like the Natural Attack routine here has Iteratives which is specifically what's being called out.
Well Drapion's unevolved form Skorupi(which I'll have for the first 40 levels) is definitely a Bug Type, so Drapion should be considered a Bug for more than just being in the Egg Group.
Flygon not being a bug type is a crime since in the very next gen they besmirched his name by making a more competitive Ground/Dragon type Garchomp as a Pseudo Legendary no less.... Who they then went on to make a Mega form for and not Flygon..... I honestly Hate Garchomp for so upstaging Flygon... Damn Bulette..... Not giving Flyon a Bug/Dragon typing for an Alolan Form, and not giving it a Mega Form when one was PLANNED during ORAS, apparently the designers got Artist's Block when trying to complete the design. Which is just.... Really Sad not only is he outshined by Mega Garchomp, but he's the only Dragon from Third Gen without a Mega Form, even Sceptile became a Grass/Dragon Mega....
As for Lurantis, that IS Kinda the Point of it, it was made as a Grass Type that evolved to imitate Bugs. Lurantis is also the reverse of the Orchid Mantis which is a bug that uses aggressive camouflage to imitate flowers and lure in its prey. Heck its Japanese and Chinese names literally mean Orchid Mantis. Its inspiration is really cool, is my favorite RL insect, and enough for me to want to add it to my bug team. Just because mechanically it is not a bug, doesn't mean it shouldn't get consideration >.>;;;
And Just Now I Learn that Scyther is caught in Poni Plains not Poni Wilds >.< I Definitely Derped, Poni Plains is Post Game, so I would have to get an egg from Sun and level up the Scyther if I wanted to get it up to snuff before the League (and I don't like having traded pokemon on my teams, hence eggs). Either that or I could stick with Vikavolt who I was gonna trade out for Scyther....
As for Trapinch, only gonna get him as of Haina Desert, and Larvesta(able to be caught in Lush Jungle alongside Fomantis) like you said won't evolve till 59.
And I know, my friend beat his copy way before I did(since I got mine late), so he caught a Drapion asked if I wanted it, and of course I said yes, cuz it sets me up to have it in my second run.
3.5 Campaign, we went through a temporal anomaly all ended up outside of town earlier in the day than when we had Just started the game. I tell everyone Not to interact with their past selves, could Blow up the Universe..... So I go tell my past self Not to upset the Barbarian in the bar later....
Needless to say the universe broke, and some Draconic God of Time destroyed my past self..... SOOOOOO basically I got killed Before the Campaign Technically began >.>
I finally completed the main story in my Ultra Sun, and the entire game I was using a team that were, or would become Dark Types. I started with Litten soon after caught Rattatta, Inkay, Grimer, Zorua, & Murk. When I got to Diglett's Tunnel I finally let Cheeky evolve (I don't like the look of Alolan Raticate) and caught me a Larvitar to replace him. I then took her and the rest up through the Pokemon League! We were unstoppable even at times I really thought we wouldn't be (like with Guzma and Mina) They weren't easy battles, but we couldn't be stopped (heck Incineroar soloed Totem Mimikyu). Have Not beaten Team Rainbow Rocket Yet though....
I think I can thank Inkay and Murkrow for being strong vs Fighting types, Murkrow, Litten, and Larvitar being strong vs Bugs, and Litten and Grimer being strong vs Fairies (also gave Murkrow Steel Wing early) aka the three weaknesses of Dark Types.
In my Ultra Moon run I think I'm just gonna use pokemon I find cute, and not let them fully evolve till after the Pokemon League (plan so far is for Brionne, Rockruff, Buneary, Noibat, Quilava, and Pikachu, might switch Buneary out for Fomantis later). Maybe evolve them right before the Pokemon League.....
Then again there's still the option for a Bug/Pseudobug Run..... Which I think the final team for would be Drapion(got one from a friend, thinking of Breeding it and giving the egg to my Ultra Moon), Flygon, Lurantis, Ribombee, Scizor(can get the Metal Coat from my Ultra Sun), and Volcarona.
Which team do you guys think would be better?
Actually, with Armored Juggernaut, since Viking takes away Heavy Armor Proficiency, its only 2/- >.> unless you take Heavy Armor Proficiency.
Armored Juggernaut wrote:
When wearing heavy armor, the fighter gains DR 1/—. At 7th level, the fighter gains DR 1/— when wearing medium armor, and DR 2/— when wearing heavy armor. At 11th level, the fighter gains DR 1/— when wearing light armor, DR 2/— when wearing medium armor, and DR 3/— when wearing heavy armor.
Sorry for continuing to be a party pooper. Good News is it's still 9/-, or 11/- if you get Heavy Armor proficiency <.<
Question, Armored Juggernaut says that other than DR from Adamantine Armor and Armor Mastery, it doesn't stack with any other Damage Reduction...
Armored juggernaut wrote:
If the fighter is 19th level and has the armor mastery class feature, these DR values increase by 5. The DR from this ability stacks with that provided by adamantine armor, but not with other forms of damage reduction.
So does it actually work with the Increased Damage Reduction Rage Power?
Douglas Muir 406 wrote:
Recognized it, and thus got it, in under 5 seconds x3
What I would do to fix the underpoweredness of the Shifter is to A) make their Minor Aspects permanent but chooseable between like a Feral Hunter's, B) give them more uses of Wild Shape to start with and At Will as a Capstone, C) give them some Bonus Feats
A) Makes some of the options not redundant or useless like the Ability Uppers or the Initiative Bonus respectively.
B) Gives them the ability to shift more often and doesn't gib their uses for shifting during battle. Could switch hours and uses around so that its uses per level and giving more hours every other level. (Sure that makes it so that you only get 8 hrs a day per form if you wanted, but it also gives you 20 shifts a day at max, and 5 uses for 1 hr each at minimum. I'd say its a MORE than decent trade, and one that seems perfect for the class' Limited Wild Shape.)
C) Would just be a nice additional bonus that almost all other Martials already get use of.
Yeps did my research. Was originally gonna complain about Unchained Rogues being treated like Unchained Monks. But, I went looking around the forums a bit, saw something that peaked my interest, went to look in my copy of ultimate Intrigue, and saw those lines(and that it was from there). I then went to check the PFS AR for further proofing. ^-^
**EDIT** If you are doing it via the Stalker advanced talent, that is a Core Rogue ability, and not available to Unchained Rogues (which it appears you are an Unchained rogue with Finesse Training and Debilitating Injury in there)
Actually From Ultimate Intrigue where the talent is from:
Rogue Talents: The following rogue talents are appropriate for unchained rogues (Pathfinder RPG Pathfinder Unchained 20) with an interest in intrigue. Consider allowing them for normal rogues, but they aren’t available to other classes or alternate classes that can choose rogue talents (such as ninja).
And from the Additional Resources Page for Pathfinder Society, under Ultimate Intrigue:
well from the list I'm seeing, other than Bisharp the rest are based on artificial stuff x3
Magnezone is based on magnets/a UFO (and I mean man shaped magnets, not just natural ones)
Palossand is a sand castle
Rotom is the ghost of a bunch of different appliances (his original form even came out of a TV the first time we see it in a game)
Dhelmise is an anchor
Metagross is a super computer, but has a form reminiscent of landers, UFO's, and robots... >.>
Muk is sludge
Xurkitree is a bunch of electrical wires
Kartana is origami
Celesteela is a rocket
Klefki is a key ring
Probopass is a maoi head/wooly willy
Drifblim is a hot air balloon
Golurk is a robot
Claydol is a shakōki-dogū(a clay doll)
lil Trubbish is a bag of garbage