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Darn Kid! Get off my lawn!
Altho it is true that the board for Outdoor Survival was used heavily in early D&D, this is a Fantasy RPG, and playing a survival game is best left to other venues. Not to mention being boring as hell.
Perhaps a better question line would be why on earth do you like low magic is more fun? Even Aragorn has a magic weapon.
So did Frodo, Sam, Merry, Pippin, Gandalf, likely Legolas (Galadriel gave him a "special" bow, but remember the elves rarely say anything is "magic"), and if you beleive the Official Licensed RPG,also Boromir and Gimli.
Actually, I think few games of whatever level of magic are played a lot beyond 14th level.
Our main game got to 15th, then ended.
I did have a 3.5 game get to 18th, and a 3.0 game get Epic.
And of course some of our early AD&D and OD&D games got crazy high.
This is why I am not terribly concerned there are some issues with very high level games.
There's a bit of talk about how other editions did it better - I'd love to know what the wording was in those editions. Can someone quote them?
http://deltasdnd.blogspot.com/2010/04/spells-through-ages-haste.html(AD&D spell) Haste: ... When this spell is cast, affected creatures function at double their normal movement and attack rates. Thus, a creature moving at 6" and attacking 1 time per round would move at 12" and attack 2 times per round. Spell casting is not more rapid. The number of creatures which can be affected is equal to the level of experience of the magic-user, those creatures closest to the spell caster being affected in preference to those farther away, and all affected by haste must be in the designated area of effect. Note that this spell negates the effects of a slow spell (see hereafter). Additionally, this spell ages the recipients due to speeded metabolic processes. Its material component is a shaving of licorice root. [1E AD&D PHB, p. 74]
Matthew Downie wrote:
You could replace Haste with a spell that increases martial damage output by 33% or so - keep the teamwork aspect, but lose the weird visual imagery of everyone moving in speeded up motion. But I don't think that bothers many people anyway.
No, in fact it's rather iconic in Fantasy.
Mark Seifter wrote:
Mythic Evil Lincoln wrote:
Right- Haste is a perfect spell. It is critical, yes. But it boosts martials far more than casters.
Haste is one of the reasons why the "Caster/Martial" disparity" is (at many tables) not a significant thing as the group plays as a TEAM.
Haste is one of the reasons why our Fighter in a 14th level is still by far the most dangerous member of the team
Take away Haste, and you get rid of a critical part of Caster/Martial teamwork.
Casters are back to Fireball.
Decomp or not, it's not gonna stop crabs, etc from eating it.
You dont even roll to start with on most of the best spells.
Or to put in in what really happens with a Fumble-crazy DM:
After ten rounds of combat your Epic Fighter has managed to both break and drop his weapon, not to mention critically wounding himself.
This is good as the Spellcasters dont need you anyway as they cant fumble, so you might as well be the Comedy Relief.
Next time, just bring a commoner with a rubber chicken, maxed out ranks in Perform Comedy and call him "Shemp".
Actually, a lot more than that, depending on how Low you go.
Ultra-Low magic is more different from PF than PF is different from OD&D.
Orfamay Quest wrote:
You can cut back the magic. Get rid of Ye Olde Magik Shoppe. Nerf some spells, define others more tightly. Limit splatbooks.
Well, to some extent. I mean, some modifications to the PF magic system can be done without making it "Iron Heroes in Golarion". I dont like "ye Olde Magik Shoppe", but I tend to hand out cool specialized loot. I have put some nerfs on spells and spell casters. I agree that D&D breaks down when casters can do 9th level spells.
I wouldn't mind seeing a PF version of IH.
Bot too often "Low magic' means a DM who is over-reacting to some super-optimized build with some kludgy "fixes" that are worse than the problem.
Or DM's that want to run Iron Heroes type game but when they advert for the game they get no players, so they say "Low magic E2 Pathfinder' instead. To them I say- be honest. Or just try a few small fixes.
You need to have fresh picked berries for goodberry, thus you need to hunt for food. And it will take 3 castings a day for most parties.
Why would creating a low-magic version of Pathfinder be less viable than Iron Hero? Well sure, if the Devs want to publish such a book. But usually it's a kludge of houserules.
But since both PF and IH are D20, what do you need from PF to run a D20 low magic game?
No, I mean stuff like simple survival stories. There are pages and pages of rules about going without food/water, drowning, long distance walking, fatigue, hot/cold environments, etc., but all of those things are easily overcome by spells (level 1 spells or even cantrips for most of those) with a 100% success rate. It's boring, and those spells do nothing else except totally remove...
What 1st level spell creates food?
And yeah, PF is a Fantasy Roleplaying Game. Not a Mundane Roleplaying Game. Most people are bored to hell with survival instead of adventuring, when your encounter for the day is:
There are such game systems. They are fun.
Why try and warp Pathfinder into one of them?
It's like trying to play Monopoly without Monopolies... or money.
I really enjoyed playing Iron Heroes, which is a nice D20 RP game- and which is even Fantasy. Wny not play a game built and intended for Low magic?
No, without ready access to healing even random orcs or bandits are "the entire adventure"
I have done this. Boring as hell.
It goes like this:
Qakisst Vishtani wrote:
Simple, just dont let him run a a rogue. Some newbs are just incapable of understanding that it's a team game, and a rogue isnt supposed to use his skills vs the party.
Actually, playing a drow in a party would still have been bad, not that Drizzt was a solo for much of his adventuring life.
It's one thing to want to play a drow, and have fun with being hunted, hated and shunned- it's another to FORCE the rest of your party to be hunted, hated and shunned. It's damn selfish is what it is.
John Kretzer wrote:
I want to play a Space Marine. Or Superman. Or a 9yo vampire street hooker. Or The Tarrasque.
I did a game where the Wizards are the Bad Guys. Hard to play a wizard then, eh?
I dont allow guns in my game, since it is Medieval.
Insain Dragoon wrote:
http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lgcs?A-Tale-of-Two-Covers"And to be clear, the misprint concerns about three square inches on the front cover. The logo on the spine is correct. The logo on the cover page is correct. The logo on the back is correct. The logo on every spread in the book is correct. One image link broke, to one logo. Yes, it's the most important one, and yes, that's very embarrassing, but ultimately it makes no difference to the book's content. Many folks I've shown the book to did not even notice the difference, as the logos are very similar."
Wow, gee, gosh, that sure is a terrible, horrible error that stops that supplement from being enjoyed!
Also everything remotely useful in the "gear" section of the CRB or Ultimate Equipment becomes completely useless after level 5. Except sunrods.
Alchemist fire and Acid is useful until high level, unless all the party is spellcasters. We still use Antitoxin at level 14.
Not many spellcasters stop needing a Spell Component Pouch and some will need a spellbook thru Epic. Alchemist need a alchemy crafting kit. And so forth.
A few people. Most either dont care or are happy just to buy and use Dreamscarred Press's products as is.
If the guards, etc have a way to get across it, or if it was designed that way-then it's a trap.
We can't have "another Advanced Class Guide disaster " as there was no disaster in the first place.
Unless you are holding Paizo to such a high level that anything short of perfection is "a disaster".
Note there's a large difference between a NPC and a GMPC (which is a special case of NPC, true).
Generally, when GMPC is used, what is meant is a Character similar to or more powerful than the PC's and who adventures with the party on a more or less constant basis. This can be REALLY annoying and is often abused.
prominent & interesting NPCs= Good
Yes, there is a CoC D20 and also Iron Heroes which is very low magic D20 D&D.
Orfamay Quest wrote:
One person is not a settlement. One family is not a settlement.
Orfamay Quest wrote:
A Thorp is not a single isolated farmhouse.
Actually, it means the same as Hamlet, but somehow in D&D it means small hamlet of less than 20 but more than one family.
Many monsters have a faster speed.
Yeah, we tried that. Note, there's random encounters too. So you have an encounter. Rest. Get attacked. Rest for that attack. Death spiral or it takes weeks to do a three day walk.
(drags body away to join the others)
Liz Courts wrote:
Good point, Liz.
I dont get the hat hate. There's no reason to hate a person based upon their choice of headgear. That's quite superficial.
And I have been wearing fedoras for forty years, and I never bring up "a discussion on men's rights or Linux." I think your sample size is too small.
Fedoras are cool. They keep the sun off you face, protecting you from skin cancer. They keep your head worm in the cold and dry in the rain.
Hating hat wearers is like hating people who wear shoes based upon the fact that one of them was a jerk once.
Well, in The Hobbit, Gandalf vanishes with a blast of bright light. He also made Bilbo look like that's how he vanished. So, apparently- a flash, smoke, then re-appear is a common enough trick. Gandalf is also known to be able to counter any spell. He used a Blinding Light and Lightning spells, as well as blasting a stone bridge to pieces in one hit.
Saruman controlled the weather, and made tens of thousands of UrukHai from slime down in pits (in others he bred them, but in the Histories it was made clear he "grew" them). He was able to Charm the WitchKing of Angmar with his Voice- a pretty good trick.
Elrond also had the Gift of Foresight, without a Palantir. He could summon a flood.
We actually only see one mage in action- Gandalf, who is given many limitations on usage of his power.
Apparently there were other mages. Sauron disguises himself as "The Necromancer" and Saruman, Elrond and the rest assume he is just a rather powerful spellcaster of some sort. They simply accept that as unexceptional.
Beorn doesnt trust magic users except Radagast- and thus he must have run into (and perhaps eaten) some of lower power (and it's clear he's never met Gandalf) . This then indicates that there are a number of adepts, hedge-casters and what not around.
This term should be shot dead, and it especially doesnt apply to the Nine Walkers.
It's true, Mana point systems can work that way, but not always* and the same with Vancian. It's not the system at all.
* T&T is one example.
No. This meme keeps coming up, but it's completely wrong. The Eye and Will of Sauron would stop the Eagles and the Nazgul would make short work of them.
About Bilbos Mithril shirt: it's not just a D&D Mithral shirt.
It saved Frodo's life when he was nearly skewered by an Orc-chieftain in the Mines of Moria. Aragorn said the thrust was strong enough to skewer a wild boar, but the Orc's spear point could not penetrate the mithril-alloy armour coat. Yet, the leather shirt beneath the Mithril was punctured with the force of the blow and Frodo was bruised and in pain."
"'Look, my friends!' he called. 'Here's a pretty hobbit-skin to wrap an elven-princeling in! If it were known that hobbits had such hides, all the hunters of Middle-earth would be riding to the Shire.'
'And all the arrows of all the hunters in the world would be in vain,' said Gimli, gazing at the mail in wonder. 'It is a mithril-coat. Mithril! I have never seen or heard tell of one so fair. Is this the coat that Gandalf spoke of? Then he undervalued it. But it was well given!'...."
The shirt is 100% arrow proof. Its value is not a mere 1000gps, but more than a entire county. It stops a critical hit from a mountain troll with nothing but non-lethal damage.
The original Invulnerable Coat of Arnd was designed to mirror the shirt. I was around back then, you know.