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Goblin Squad Member. 360 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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Alchemist: One of my favorite classes. I love the bomb throwing and just the range of different things you can do. Sure, spells can do it better, and often to other people. But I've turned alchemists into everything from front line combatants to woodland hermits to poison crafting and bomb throwing leaders of thieves guilds. Cognatogen is also fun. Instead of a Hyde type, you get a brain-Hyde.

Cavalier: Some people love them. I've always been really so-so about them. The focus around mounted combat irks me. However, I've come to love them with the addition of the Huntmaster archetype.

Gunslinger: While many people are completely anti-gun in their fantasy settings... I love it. As long as you restrict it to early (musket style) firearms only. I've used Gunslinger for a few different roles. I actually did a mix of mysterious stranger/paladin at one point and had a blast with it.

Inquisitor: Another enjoyable one. A bit more slanted towards combat, but it has enough skill potential to turn into a skill monkey. I wish the teamwork feats were just bonus combat feats, but that's really my only complaint about the class.

Magus: I've never played one. I've designed quite a few that I intended to play, but I've never been able to actually play one. I think they look pretty cool. I enjoy using them as villains in my campaigns though.

Oracle: Really a sorcerer version of the cleric, but with added flavor. I think the curses could have used a bit of working, maybe give some bonus a bit earlier than they do. But I do like the class a lot. Half orc metal oracle probably being my favorite. Was a great front-line bruiser.

Summoner: I don't like them. Not for thinking they're overpowered. But just because of their bond with the Eidolon. Being able to see through their eyes, dismiss them instantly. And having no downfall to just treating them like crap... I've seen too many Eidolon's turn into trap finders and little else. Pretty annoying.

Witch: I like it, but I'm honestly done with the Slumber Hex. I'd love to see a single witch that's built without it. Alas, that's yet to happen.


MaxAstro wrote:

I have them. Man, those are my favorite character sheets, especially the Psionics ones (although I wish he'd do the Advanced Psionics classes).

On topic, though, how can I get them to you?

That'd be absolutely awesome if you can get them to me. I can send you a private message on the forums with my email address. You can just email them to me.


I always used HC's character sheets. They were my go to, especially since he had all the class specific sheets available. However I recently lost all of mine. I've come across the Core and APG sheets, but I can't find his UM and UC specific sheets. PathfinderDB links are dead, and the internet is failing me in finding any other copies of his character sheets. Was wondering if anyone out there might have them and would be willing to share. I'd appreciate it.


Please cancel my Pathfinder Roleplaying Game subscription.

Goblin Squad Member

UO had an interesting mechanic for going perma-red (the murderer flag status).

Basically, you could spend time in game not killing people to let your murder counts fall off. Once your 5 short term murder counts were gone (8 hours each) and you dropped below 5 Long Term murder counts (those took 40 hours each) you would become blue flagged again (meaning not a murderer, able to go to towns and whatnot.)

If you did the Red-Blue-Red swap too many times, you just became permanently flagged Red. It was a pretty harsh penalty, but I could see something like that being useful in PFO.

Goblin Squad Member

Andius wrote:
At that point, your character will suck. Your character will be so weak that it isn't competitive and the developers are actually hoping you will just give up and leave the game.

And that's piss poor game design. If I go around murdering people, I fully expect that I won't be able to go into the vast majority of settlements, be they player or NPC. I expect not to be able to interact with many, if any NPCs. I'd even take UO's stat loss system (if you died while having too many murder counts, and then ressurected, you lost some skill/stat points). But if bottoming out is going to cause my character to straight up suck? No thanks. It'd be thinly veiled consensual PvP. I'd laugh at the joke that PFO would be at that point.

But really, until we have hard facts on the way PFOs systems work, it's pointless to argue the point. I hope you're wrong, because I'd hate to have to walk away from this game after blowing the amount of money on it I already have.

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:


Doggan wrote:
Simple rule of thumb if you've just been RPKed: You had stuff, the RPK wanted it and was able to overpower you and take it. That's it. That's a reason right there. Is that toxic? Nope. It's harsh. Get RPKed enough and you'll learn to travel through safer areas, or in groups, or learn how to fight. Adapt or die.
I don't believe that's the dynamic Goblinworks is hoping for in Pathfinder Online.

It doesn't much matter if that's the dynamic they're going for. That's the dynamic that's going to exist. Unless they remove the ability to RPK, in which case they've just taken away the fact that they're a player based sandbox game.

Look, RPKing is going to happen. Whether people want your stuff or not. It's going to happen. Hell, I'm going to end up killing people just because they were in my way at the time. But I'm okay with taking the fallout from that. I'm okay with taking that 'villain' role in the game. I don't much care if I'm branded as a murderer or whatever else. I did it in UO and I'll do it in PFO. Does that mean that I'm going to grief people? No. I won't track down a person I just killed to kill them again (well, I might, in super special circumstances) I'll just move on with my day and whatever I was doing.

But I won't be anywhere near the worst. The game will have griefers. It's unavoidable. There will probably be RPKers that put me to shame, and kill everything in sight. The only way to avoid this is to make the game consensual only PvP. Which would be a joke.

I'll admit that griefers (meaning the people who are constantly corpse camping, and spewing chat garbage) will be toxic to the game. Those types are unavoidable, and I'm sure GW will do their best to remove them. But I will never agree that the murderers of the game, the RPKers, I'll never agree that they're toxic. It's part of the danger of having an open world PvP game. And those RPKers are putting themselves at risk too. They have to watch out for the Dudley Do Rights of the game, and also travel smart or in packs.

Accept the risks that are going to be a part of a game like this. You might die. Almost anywhere. No matter who you are. Learn to enjoy it. Let it keep you on your toes. Make it exciting. You'll have more fun in the end.

Goblin Squad Member

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Gaskon wrote:
Bluddwolf wrote:
RPKing is not griefing, according to Ryan Dancey. Ganking is not considered greifing according to almost anyone who understands the term. Calling these things toxic, is in itself "toxic" because it tainst a game that would otherwise have greater appeal than what you have given it credit for.
If RPKing can be defined as "The person I just attacked has no idea why I did it", then it absolutely is toxic to the community and the game.

Simple rule of thumb if you've just been RPKed: You had stuff, the RPK wanted it and was able to overpower you and take it. That's it. That's a reason right there. Is that toxic? Nope. It's harsh. Get RPKed enough and you'll learn to travel through safer areas, or in groups, or learn how to fight. Adapt or die.


Wow, all of this tax nonsense is absurd. There's an actual Cost of Living set of rules in the core rulebook. You should point your DM to it.


By the wording, it seems like you just go in the order stated on the table. No random roll. And it also seems like you don't even roll damage on the items. It seems like they make a save or end up broken.

Goblin Squad Member

Andius wrote:
I think what most people are missing from this argument is that Pax or UNC has spies in TEO.

I think some of the "spies" could just be leftovers in your system. While you were...I don't know what was going on. You were taking a break for some reason? And the council was almost completely unavailable, I quit TEO. I contacted several people on Teamspeak, and private messaged the only person who was still around that seemed to be in charge that I was done. But I still had access for ages after that. And while I'm sure I'll get accused of it, no I'm not the mole in your system. That's not how I operate. But you may want to do some forum cleanup.

Goblin Squad Member

Andius wrote:
It's why I keep saying that my champion flag will be up 100% of the time. Because I'm not a coward. I accept the consequences of my playstyle 100% of the time.

I'm extremely interested to see if those holds true when actually in game.

Goblin Squad Member

Andius wrote:
Doggan wrote:
Nihimon wrote:
Doggan wrote:
Andius wrote:
Robbing enemy supply trains is meaningful. Killing random adventurers is not.
Does that mean that you'll refrain from killing random bandits, villains or murderers? Because if not, it makes you just as guilty as those you seem to be preaching against.
Not at all. Bandits, Villains, and Murderers chose to be "other people's content". It would be selfish not to attack them when given the opportunity.
Thanks for your input, but I wasn't talking to you. Unless you're Andius' PR representative, I think he should probably answer questions directed at him for himself.

----------

Andius wrote:

A non-toxic PvPer is going to seek out other PvPers and targets that provide meaningful content (Merchant caravans, members of enemy settlements, PvP flagged opponents) instead of just slaughtering everyone they see.

That's what makes me hunting bandits and murderers different. Those are PvPers. They shouldn't choose PvP roles unless they want PvP. To put it simply, I hunt wolves, you hunt sheep.

PS. Notice I have never suggested hunting players like myself and other champions is toxic behavior. Unlike the supposedly fearsome wolves who complain about being hunted constantly. I'm category B and I want you to fight me. Come. Lets see what color you cowards bleed!

I find it curious you wolves keep trying to demonize those who hunt you and compare it to your own slaughter of sheep. Is that fear that I smell? Afraid to face an opponent who isn't afraid to face you?

Demonize you? No. You do a good enough job of demonizing yourself. Just trying to understand you. With your constant grandiose claims and promise to hunt wolves, it's not always easy to get a straight answer out of you.

And since you're so big on quotes, here's my response to your laughable idea that I'd ever be afraid of you:

Doggan wrote:
From a personal perspective, I frankly don't care who I'm going after in PvP. I'm as likely to go after as an A as I am a B or a C. Crafters and gatherers may make for easier marks, but they're the same to me as the big bad Barbarian PvPer. They're a target.


Sir_Wulf wrote:
Doggan wrote:
Call your GM on his b&$%!~*+. A 30 foot high jump is a DC 120. Unless you're using Mythic rules and there's some sort of super jump rules in there that I don't know about, sounds like GM is just making stuff up.
I'd give the GM a bit more respect than that. This monk may have an obscure or homegrown magic item or feat that makes him "bouncier" than most.

I absolutely wouldn't. Blowing a ki point to get a +20 to jump, max ranks 9, class skill 3, let's say dex of 6 because this GM seems to be beyond silly, able to add his class level of 9 to the jump, his speed being 60 ft so that gives him another +12. That's a +59. Rolling a 20 that's a 79. Let's even throw in Skill Focus for another +3. 82 on a roll of 20. So he'd need a magic item that gives him a +20 to acrobatics (something that would cost 40,000gp) and then roll a 20 each time. Assuming he has all of that, you then need to figure out how he's using pounce rules on an attack that is not a charge.

I respect GMs for taking the time to do what they do. I know how time consuming it is, because I've been doing it for the past few years. I have no respect for GMs who do outlandish things like this, and ruin the fun for the players.

Goblin Squad Member

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Nihimon wrote:
Doggan wrote:
Andius wrote:
Robbing enemy supply trains is meaningful. Killing random adventurers is not.
Does that mean that you'll refrain from killing random bandits, villains or murderers? Because if not, it makes you just as guilty as those you seem to be preaching against.
Not at all. Bandits, Villains, and Murderers chose to be "other people's content". It would be selfish not to attack them when given the opportunity.

Thanks for your input, but I wasn't talking to you. Unless you're Andius' PR representative, I think he should probably answer questions directed at him for himself.

Goblin Squad Member

Andius wrote:
Robbing enemy supply trains is meaningful. Killing random adventurers is not.

Does that mean that you'll refrain from killing random bandits, villains or murderers? Because if not, it makes you just as guilty as those you seem to be preaching against.

Really though, killing a random adventurer has meaning. To say it has none is really a joke. If you have a pair of wandering villains, or highwaymen, they aren't going to go after the supply train. They're going to find random adventurers, SAD them, and possibly kill them. That's the way things go. That's how PvP sometimes goes. The community should be subjected to exactly as much PvP as they make themselves available to be subjected to. Don't want PvP? There's options. Stay in a safe area. Want to go adventure in the wilds? You have to deal with the monsters of both NPC and PC variety.

From a personal perspective, I frankly don't care who I'm going after in PvP. I'm as likely to go after as an A as I am a B or a C. Crafters and gatherers may make for easier marks, but they're the same to me as the big bad Barbarian PvPer. They're a target.


Call your GM on his b$+~#@$~. A 30 foot high jump is a DC 120. Unless you're using Mythic rules and there's some sort of super jump rules in there that I don't know about, sounds like GM is just making stuff up.

All that aside, what sort of casters does your party have? How many people have Use Magic Device? Just magic missile him all day. At best, he likely has at most 100 hp, unless your GM is cheating again.


You use the level of the class that gives you the animal companion feature. So in this case, just the Mad Dog levels. Unless you have another source which grants you the animal companion class feature (like Druid) then you stack the levels of the two classes together.

Goblin Squad Member

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Sepherum wrote:
One of the ideas floating around that is not a what-if is that we will have meaningful pvp. Perhaps a lot of it. 'Carebears' will have a place in the River Kingdoms. They already have their own venture company.

Meaningful PvP is what I'd ideally have. But I also have no problem with killing people to take their stuff. Ultimately, I hope the carebears do have their place within the game. I won't take that away from them. But I wouldn't necessarily want one on a player council speaking for me. Which was my point to begin with.

Goblin Squad Member

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Jazzlvraz wrote:
Doggan wrote:
With the carebear mentality that floats around these boards pretty regularly...

I see many people accuse others of being c@#$%^&*s, but

1) I don't see many of those accusations as being based in reality, but mostly in supposition, mis-interpretation, and needing a target for the point the accuser wants to make, and
2) Ryan's asked us not to use that term:

Ryan Dancey wrote:
@All - lets not use the term carebear.

1: I read these boards enough to see the reality of it. Every time I see anti-pking and anti-pvp sentiment and a post, it's the first thing that jumps to mind. And there's enough of it to make my point. I'm sorry if you disagree. Thank you for picking out a single word of my post though, and ignoring the rest of it.

2: Don't really care if Ryan asked me not to use the term. It has been around from the beginning of online gaming, and it won't stop being used. If it becomes considering enough of a bad, no-no word, then the forums can word filter it.

Goblin Squad Member

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Doggan of the UnNamed Company. Unabashed PvPer and PKer. Enemy to all things in the realm of bears that care. I mostly lurk and read random posts that look interesting, but usually avoid posting because I tend to make people mad.

Goblin Squad Member

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Sintaqx wrote:
The biggest gripes I have heard over a Player Council are that it's a popularity contest, and that it only represents a fraction of the player base.

Agreed completely on this one. With the carebear mentality that floats around these boards pretty regularly, I'd honestly be afraid of some of the suggestions that would make their way to the devs ears if it were to be chosen right now. Honestly I hope that there's no election system for it at any point. I'd much rather see the devs pull people from the community in a private manner once EE actually starts, and people can comment and make judgements on the game as it actually plays as opposed to the ideas and what-ifs that are floating around right now.


Oh god, not another one of these. It never anywhere implicitly states that you're prone. It says that you gain the unconscious condition:

Quote:
Unconscious creatures are knocked out and helpless. Unconsciousness can result from having negative hit points (but not more than the creature's Constitution score), or from nonlethal damage in excess of current hit points.

And then helpless:

Quote:
A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent's mercy. A helpless target is treated as having a Dexterity of 0 (–5 modifier). Melee attacks against a helpless target get a +4 bonus (equivalent to attacking a prone target). Ranged attacks get no special bonus against helpless targets. Rogues can sneak attack helpless targets.


Quote:

When your current hit point total drops to exactly 0, you are disabled.

You gain the staggered condition and can only take a single move or standard action each turn (but not both, nor can you take full-round actions). You can take move actions without further injuring yourself, but if you perform any standard action (or any other strenuous action) you take 1 point of damage after completing the act. Unless your activity increased your hit points, you are now at –1 hit points and dying.

Healing that raises your hit points above 0 makes you fully functional again, just as if you'd never been reduced to 0 or fewer hit points.

You can also become disabled when recovering from dying. In this case, it's a step toward recovery, and you can have fewer than 0 hit points (see Stable Characters and Recovery).

You don't?


Yeah, he's correct. Splash weapon rules apply to things like crits (or the fact that splash weapons don't crit) and misses to determine where the splash weapon actually lands. If you up the CR, and your players are instantly dying, I can't help but think you're doing CRs wrong, or upping it by way too much. Upping the CR by 1 or 2 against a party that's steamrolling through every encounter shouldn't cause a wipe.

If you want to know how to make it harder, use tactics. Have your creatures spread out, use creatures or NPC enemies that make use of ranged tactics (a bomb can only be thrown 5 range increments, so that's a max of 100 feet) or even add some spellcasters in there. Find creatures that fit the CR you're looking for that have some energy resist, or energy immunities. Dretch are a good example. CR2 and resist acid/fire/cold 10. Along with the stinking cloud they can use as battlefield control, a small number of dretch can make for a very hard encounter.

As for your Barbarian... Barbarians do one thing well. They hit stuff. They hit stuff hard.

You want to challenge your players? Come up with better places for battles. Have enemies who use tactics just like your players do. Start off NPCs in advantageous positions. Make use of traps and ambushes.

Oh, also, what character creation rules are you using? Because keep in mind, book CR encounters are designed around groups that are using 15 point buy, and only have 4-5 players. If you upped the point buy at all, or have a larger group, then you need to edit the CR accordingly.


Ragin' Sage wrote:
Doggan wrote:
SRD wrote:
A monk with natural weapons cannot use such weapons as part of a flurry of blows, nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks.

So, forget the claws and bite if you want to Flurry. The whole triggering claws thing is iffy, because you generally don't use the same limb for multiple forms of attack. What you can do however, as a full attack, would be something like this:

Kick: 1d8 +1d6 Fire at your full attack bonus
Dragon Claw: 1d4 +1d6 Fire at -5
Dragon Claw: 1d4 +1d6 Fire at -5
Dragon Bite: 1d6 +1d6 Fire at -5

You always make a separate attack roll for each attack, unless something clearly states otherwise.

Fair enough on the natural attacks, but why the -5?

SRD wrote:
These claws are treated as natural weapons, allowing you to make two claw attacks as a full attack action using your full base attack bonus.

The -5 is because as soon as you make an attack with a manufactured weapon (and as odd as it sounds, IUS strikes count as manufactured weapons in this case) all natural attacks become secondary. Secondary natural attacks all eat a -5 penalty. The exact rules can be found in the Bestiary.


Not a problem. Don't forget to add on the additional cost if you want those composite weapons to be able to make use of a larger strength modifier.


SRD wrote:
A monk with natural weapons cannot use such weapons as part of a flurry of blows, nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks.

So, forget the claws and bite if you want to Flurry. The whole triggering claws thing is iffy, because you generally don't use the same limb for multiple forms of attack. What you can do however, as a full attack, would be something like this:

Kick: 1d8 +1d6 Fire at your full attack bonus
Dragon Claw: 1d4 +1d6 Fire at -5
Dragon Claw: 1d4 +1d6 Fire at -5
Dragon Bite: 1d6 +1d6 Fire at -5

You always make a separate attack roll for each attack, unless something clearly states otherwise.


To have a weapon be magic, it has to be masterwork. To add a property onto a weapon, it has to be at least +1 first. So...

Masterwork weapon: 300
+1 base magic cost: 2000
Guided: 6000 (because adding +1 and a +1 property makes it a +2, so the guided cost is basically the difference between a +1 and +2 weapon)
Composite Shortbow: 75

So in total: 8375

For a longbow: 8400

Goblin Squad Member

The only upcoming MMO that I'm even remotely interested in (besides PFO) is Wildstar. I don't have the same hardon hate for themepark MMOs that many people on these forums seem to. Wildstar is adding enough stuff that I'm interested in to make me want to play another themepark MMO.


Oh god not again.


Spontaneous caster using the Druid list. Give me that, and I'm super happy.


I sent an email this morning, but I guess no one got to it yet. I was hoping to suspend my subscription to the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game line for a short amount of time. I just got the alert email though that it was going to ship soon. Is it too late to suspend the sub?


Enhancement bonus. And yes it stacks with Mutagen because Mutagen gives an alchemical bonus.

Goblin Squad Member

Martin Sheaffer wrote:

Local VC posted this here:

I checked with Customer Service. Their reply:

"Goblin Squad members must be present to receive their free mini. However the mini will also be free to customers making a $50 minimum purchase at Paizo's Gen Con booth. Additionally, the mini will be available for sale exclusively on paizo.com after the convention. "

No picking up minis for friends.

That's pretty damn lame.

Goblin Squad Member

I'm honestly curious also. I have a friend who lives nearby who's going to GenCon, but I can't make it. Would I be able to send him along with my sheet and have him pick it up for me?


CalebTGordan wrote:
Do you think a young kid will really understand what is happening and grasp the importance of it? This isn't violence for the sake of violence, or a dumb dude tearing things up with claws.

I'll usually take my son (who's almost 8 now) to movies during the week, middle of the day, and usually a couple weeks after a movies release. I do this to avoid crowds, and so he can ask me questions and I can give a good answer without having to worry about bothering anyone in the almost always empty theater. Will he understand that scene on his own? Some of it, absolutely. Other parts not so much. But I'll take the time to explain it to him.

Sure, there's a point where I draw the line. Anything with nudity or gore type violence I really won't let him watch. Anything short of that is fair game. PG-13 is just a recommendation, and each kid is different. Mine can watch monster movies and most horror movies and laugh at them. My neighbor's kid, not so much.

In the end, as long as the kids aren't bothering anyone watching the movie, then you have no ground to comment on what they're watching. You're not their parent and it's none of your business.


Please cancel my Campaign Setting subscription. Hopefully I made it in time before the July stuff was charged.


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I feel for you Zexcir. I have 2 guys in my group who both had to cut back on gaming because of their wives. I got lucky enough in that I managed to find myself a nerd of a wife who loves video gaming, and has stuck her foot into tabletop gaming a few times before. She always tells her friends what I'm doing when I'm not home, or when my house is full of a bunch of guys. Some laugh at it, but who cares? I'd rather be at home around the table with a bunch of friends than out getting trashed at a random bar/club/strip joint.


You need this to complete your idea here. Because unarmed strikes and natural attacks are actually different.

Edit: Nevermind, no you don't. However I don't know if Hands of Stone and Strong Jaw would stack.


If you could please cancel the Player Companion Subscription line for me. There's just way too many books coming out over the next few months that I'm going to have to be picky about which line to drop, and this one has to get the axe. Thanks.


I'm all for arrays, but make them equal. Alternatively, just have your players do point buy, but set a cap and a minimum on stats. If you don't want min-maxers, tell people they can't drop below 9 or 8, and they can only buy up to 16.


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The 4 different people in my group that DM all used to use various fumble rules. It was sort of okay for a while, although it could get very annoying very quickly. And then I started playing a TWF Ranger and actually got him up to a high level. It just felt really stupid that even though I had so many levels of training, I still had a 5% chance every attack to do something horrendously stupid like throw my weapon or hit my nearest friend. After that, I immediately went back to the rules by the book, and I've been pushing all the other DMs in my group to do the same.

Some of the fumble rules I've seen have been absolutely absurd, like permanent ability damage or loss of limbs. I could see maybe if you have a player who's trying to do something really crazy, like jump off of a 100 foot cliff trying to impale something at the bottom with a sword, but for every day normal fighting book rules are best. There's really no reason to punish the players any more than normal play can.


Alchemist, Druid, Fighter, Inquisitor, Oracle, Ranger. No particular order, but those are generally what I enjoy most. For Druid and Ranger, I generally try to go for the Animal Companions, although I had a great time once rolling a Druid with a domain and playing out a nature scholar.


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I'd like to see NPC Codex 2 with all the APG/UM/UC classes. After that, I'd love to see another setting hardcover. I know the player companion Faith books were released, but I'd really like to see something more complete that actually has the structure of each deities church and the like.

Also, this may just be me and would probably fit better in the Campaign Setting line, but I'd love a huge book of city/town maps. I don't have the patience to make my own, but hate not having a city map to show my players. I usually end up borrowing maps from APs or random setting books.

Goblin Squad Member

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I'm firmly in the realm of Cash Shop should only be cosmetic items, or account related items (ie: Character slots and the like). Anything that has any real effect on gameplay should really just be kept to being earned through gameplay.

Any sort of item that can be part of the in game market should remain as an in game collected/crafted item. Otherwise you risk negating the entire idea behind a player built economy.


I believe Bestiary 4 is after Mythic. Not sure beyond that.


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Driver 325 yards wrote:
Doggan wrote:
I'm not really seeing the need for an FAQ here. Both Crane Wing and Deflect Arrows never mention miss. You can deflect attacks that would hit you, causing them to do no damage. It never states anywhere that it turns them into a miss. As a matter of fact, to be able to deflect them, they have to have not missed to begin with.

Correction, in order to be deflected, the attack has to have met the AC requirement. This "would normally be a hit," as Crane Style points out, but it is not a hit because it is deflected.

Since it is not a hit it is a miss. Now, if you need to see a place where a deflected attack is specifically called out as a miss, refer to the links to Wind Wall and Wind of Vengeance that I have provided above.

So a deflected attack is a miss, just like an attack avoided be concealment is a miss (thus, the use of terms like 50% miss chance0

Meeting AC requirement = hit.

Look, I understand the fact that you're trying to rules lawyer this stuff into however you want it to work for whatever reason, but in this case all it takes is a little careful reading.

Wind of Vengeance states that things are deflected and miss.
Windwall states that things are deflected and miss.
Deflect Arrows states that arrows are deflected and do no damage.
Crane Wing states deflected attacks do no damage.

Notice how different the wording is? Two of them specifically state that the attacks miss. The other two say NOTHING about miss. Just that they do no damage.

Doing no damage is not missing.

The only rule attached to Deflect is the Deflection Bonus to AC that certain things give. Anything beyond that is fluff text. Fluff text is not RAW.


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I'm not really seeing the need for an FAQ here. Both Crane Wing and Deflect Arrows never mention miss. You can deflect attacks that would hit you, causing them to do no damage. It never states anywhere that it turns them into a miss. As a matter of fact, to be able to deflect them, they have to have not missed to begin with.


The concept seems a bit awkward to me. Why would a failed mage be so good at any spells? Maybe give them a super limited spell list, only able to cast 0 level spells up to level 4, and from 4-20 use the progression that Ranger/Paladin get?

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