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The Manyfaced One

Divvox2's page

FullStarFullStar Venture-Agent, Illinois—Bloomington. 302 posts. No reviews. No lists. 2 wishlists. 16 Pathfinder Society characters.


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Grand Lodge

limsk wrote:

Johny Mnemonic

How Bad? A 14% rating on Rotten Tomatoes and a Golden Raspberry nomination for Keanu Reeves

Why I like It: As a unabashed William Gibson fan, this film showed me the worlds that I spent my teenage years imagining, reading Neuromancer in my school library. Yes the dialogue is so cheesy you could spread it on bread. Ice-T and Dolph Lundgren ham it up gloriously too.

I love everything about this. It was my first exposure to Cyberpunk that I can recall, and it was just amazing for me. I also love Keanu Reeves as an actor, so shaddup. XD

Belabras wrote:

Surely I can't be the only fan here of The Last Dragon?

When I say 'who is the master' you say Sho'Nuff!

You're not the only one! A buddy told me about this movie not long ago and I watched it on Youtube. It's downright amazing.

Grand Lodge

Ridiculon wrote:
Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Brawler’s flurry is not two weapon fighting it is its own ability. It just happens to have the same game mechanics.
Actually Brawler's Flurry gives you the feat while you are using the ability. You don't have to meet any prereq's because the ability is bypassing them to give you the feat (it also gives you a couple extra things on top of the feat)

And to expand, you count as having the Two Weapon Fighting feats you get via the class skill in order to qualify for other feats, but feats that require the Two-Weapon Fighting feats will only be activated on rounds when you've used Brawler's Flurry. To put it another way, they will suffer from the same "I am treated as having the feat only on rounds when I use brawler's flurry" effect as the feats you originally get from the Brawler's Flurry class ability.

Grand Lodge ** Venture-Agent, Illinois—Bloomington aka Divvox2

John Compton wrote:
For years, players have complained that Venture-Captain Sheila Heidmarch a) didn't provide enough information before adventures, b) didn't give the PCs free equipment for missions, and c) didn't seem to care about the dangerous circumstances into which she sent agents—concerns I've tried to combat while at Paizo. Players have also seemed to assume that she and other venture-captains have all of the answers and unlimited resources, rather than just being accomplished adventurers who run lodges out-of-pocket. Now those same players get to play the part of Sheila and other Society leaders they've spent their careers demonizing. As the adventure advises, if you know that the players/PCs are critical of their venture-captains for perceived tight-fistedness, lack of empathy, or incompetence, let the NPC Pathfinder teams give them a taste of their own medicine. You may have heard the classic parental line "I hope your children are as terrible to you as you are being to me." Have some fun with it. Leadership isn't easy.

This seeker arc has encouraged my Brawler to take this into consideration. As a result, he's planning on dropping levels into the PrC Pathfinder Field Agent so he is capable of researching more and passing on more abilities in order to lead more effectively. Previously he would simply break what was in front of him and leave most of the thinking to wiser party members.

Above board I think this has accomplished exactly this. We still lost 2 people and we were trying very hard to keep them alive (lots of equipment and we made all our knowledge checks). We actively attempted to send teams to the places we thought were best suited to their abilities, and never sent them to dangerous locations if we could help it.

How it influenced our choices:
We even opted to bust down the front door in part III in order to draw attention away from the secondary teams in case it would have helped. We still lost one in that scenario despite wrecking everything we encountered :(

Grand Lodge ** Venture-Agent, Illinois—Bloomington aka Divvox2

Ran it this last Saturday, playing up, with the 4 player adjustment and a group that was all 5-7 and one level 9.

This was brutal for them. I nearly TPK'ed them in the first and second fights. Technically I did dust someone in the second fight (in the throne room) which had particularly expensive implications, but the line at the store register finally died down (there was a ton of card game players that day) and they finally made their purchase to put the table over the $50 limit, meaning the barbarian didn't get killed, and was just unconscious (I let this slide because otherwise we would have started very late). We had to skip a lot of the latter fights because we were tight on time. I can see how this could go faster with a properly balanced party, but if you've got a group of mid/low-ranged DPS, they're going to suffer as they attempt to make it through all the HP. Once I saw that I was going to -easily- TPK them, I spread the damage output around (no way to miss anyone but dedicated AC builds with those to-hits) a bit to make it a bit closer to a possible positive outcome and they managed to figure out a good way to negate the threats they were dealing with.

I let my players know that this one has problem solving challenges on par with Bonekeep 1 and that seemed to help them during prep, but the party build was not ready to output the damage it needed to, so long fights were significantly deadly. There are a lot of critters in this one that, if the party can't put particular monsters down quickly, the chances of success start dropping rapidly due to lingering effects.

I didn't even get to use the moonbeast flutist ;_;

Grand Lodge ** Venture-Agent, Illinois—Bloomington aka Divvox2

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Linda Zayas-Palmer wrote:

Popping in here with a quick clarification after some feedback we received at GenCon.

** spoiler omitted **

My read of it indicates that if the PCs kill Aluu-Nekva (picky eater zombie), he heals (giving the PCs time to ready themselves for a fight) and then hounds them. This could spell death for the PCs if they got wrecked earlier, or it could be that they can heal up and gang-up on him. Either way, they will have to finish the fight at this point, and it appears that after he goes back to heal that one time, he does not return to heal again as he, "...following them relentlessly until destroyed" which I wouldn't read as going back and forth for healing.

And it's pretty clear that if the PCs don't kill his mate, he just lets them leave, even after engaging them in combat.

Mike Bramnik wrote:
Quick chronicle sheet question - is the feather token limit one (the language of the boon seems to hint that it is), or is it unlimited # of purchases? Thanks!

I'd vote for the "Single Token" reading in the text, but it is a little weird that it doesn't conform to the standard "Check box and cross off this boon" approach to these kind of things.

Grand Lodge ** Venture-Agent, Illinois—Bloomington aka Divvox2

Calybos1 wrote:

This could be a scavenger hunt. Bonus points if you can find....

...Two seasons ago: A table without an Arcanist or Brawler...

I got into PFS right around when the ACG came out with the brawler, it was my first character. Even then I have only ever seen about 2-3 other brawlers in the wild above level 1 or 2. I really wish I saw it more around here... The class still holds a special place in my crunchy little heart.

And yeah, Ragathiel is hot (pun intended) with players. I've looked through the other lords and though lots of them were cool, but he's the only one I've seen other players follow.

Mitch Mutrux wrote:
I had a Thassilonian Evoker, emphasis on had...

Our Wrath is... very aggressive in his playstyle. I suspect he's going to bite it first out of all of us, and die due to including himself in an AoE (the player would want it that way, though). I have been playing mine intensely though, so I'm many levels further along than the rest of our group. I think only Wrath, Lust, Sloth, and Gluttony have gotten play time (wrath, lust, and gluttony are levels 3-5 I believe, my sloth is 8 by comparison). I think Greed might have gotten a game or two in, but he just had a kid so that's not a big surprise. I don't believe the others have played theirs yet.

Grand Lodge ** Venture-Agent, Illinois—Bloomington aka Divvox2

Milan Badzic wrote:
Sam King wrote:
Since the conversation is on Wizards... I rarely see other Thessalonian Specialists outside of our own meta, and I see it there because a whole mess of us decided to do a group of wayang TSs. For those of us who have gotten some serious play time in with them, they've been an absolute blast of extremes in both builds and RP (I do sloth[conjuration]).
Considering they are not sanctioned unless you *cough**cough**cough*, that might be the reason.

I guess. I've known a couple dozen people who've gone through it, but nobody else has one. I've actually really enjoyed not having to pick spells from those two schools.

Grand Lodge ** Venture-Agent, Illinois—Bloomington aka Divvox2

Edwin Wessels wrote:
Bonekeep 2 - Certain room where will saves ruined our winning streak.. first time I had to "rescue" my fighter...

I remember going through that scenario with my brawler, and the grapple barbarian and I were wrestling those stupid fricking brain-tick things off people and tossing them in portals. We timed out shortly after clearing that room, but found out later they started attacking enemies in other rooms, doing some of the work for us. It was kind of hilarious and I'm sad we lost so much time figuring out how to get through that stupid maze.
Grand Lodge ** Venture-Agent, Illinois—Bloomington aka Divvox2

Since the conversation is on Wizards... I rarely see other Thessalonian Specialists outside of our own meta, and I see it there because a whole mess of us decided to do a group of wayang TSs. For those of us who have gotten some serious play time in with them, they've been an absolute blast of extremes in both builds and RP (I do sloth[conjuration]).

Outside of our group, I've only seen one. And for wizards, I've seen a few others, but they're definitely less common than martial/ranged builds, but the spread is pretty even between wizard, sorcerer, alchemist, cleric, arcanist, witch, and similar classes.

Grand Lodge

One build that you could consider is a level drop in fighter or some martial class and then 6 levels of arcanist. Max out that Strength, and you'll get some pretty decent output early on with superior maneuverability (dimensional slide). After that, dump levels into Eldritch Knight and you'll do pretty darn well.

A local built the same thing, and used barbarian for his martial so he could rage after buffing up. At higher levels, he would quicken-rod mirror image, always have some long-duration buff spells up, and then dimensional dervish his way around to flank with everyone, AND have the option to dimensional slide away afterwards, AND be able to monstrous humanoid himself into a gargoyle with something like 5-6 attacks. It was disgustingly effective, and he was only a couple CL from a full mage. Often he'd get his buffs out of the way during the surprise round and then full round everything in the room on future rounds. If he had a chance to throw up shield before a fight he could get high 30's low 40's AC, which was enough to avoid most trouble, with mirror image covering his butt the rest of the time.

Grand Lodge

I have a conjurer wayang in PFS who uses Snowball as one of his primary damage output sources. I keep it pretty simple, but I use Wayang Magehunter and Magical Lineage to dip the metamagic adjustment, empower them all, and intensify them all. I then bought a minor rod of maximize, which lets me drop 90 cold/hit. I have room for another +1 metamagic, but I don't have much I want to throw it at. It looks like there are a few more methods though from what I've seen in this thread, so there is room to improve.

Grand Lodge ** Venture-Agent, Illinois—Bloomington aka Divvox2

Kevin Willis wrote:
andreww wrote:
Sam King wrote:
The next round our level 8 paladin (88hp) went from full health to -71 and nobody saw where it came from.
I don't believe this is possible in that scenario unless he was crit, possibly twice.

Yeah, I'm not seeing how this happened.

** spoiler omitted **

It was a double crit. My interpretation of the 2 stealth shots was that both got the SA damage because the feat that grants the ability to get that damage on both because you're considered hidden for both (thus overriding the normal rule), but there could have been a miss-play as I haven't looked terribly close at the setup. Either way, the paladin got crit-hit twice by this guy, so he still would have been absolutely flattened.

After that first round he hit/crit someone else and took them to 3HP, but they spotted him and he got hammered, so it didn't last too long. Everything else got flattened pretty quick. I was just floored with how much damage came out of that setup.

Grand Lodge

A goblin summoner with the broodmaster archtype. He always wanted to be a chief, but nobody let him, so he decided to go make his own tribe.

There is a laundry list of personality issues there, and he would just be so much fun to play, particularly when his "tribe" starts talking back to him.

Grand Lodge ** Venture-Agent, Illinois—Bloomington aka Divvox2

RealAlchemy wrote:
Joe the Devout wrote:
4-26 The Waking Rune: Didn't know there was anything special about this scenario, not sure if the other players at the table knew there was something special about this scenario. We were not prepared... My character plane shifted away when he was the last one standing.
Haven't played it yet, but I think that scenario would call for me releasing the kraken APG summoner who blows through scrolls of Evolution Surge/Greater Evolution Surge like candy.

Sad to say that will not necessarily help you, at all. My only played TPK (kinda, one guy got away) was in that very scenario. I'll spare spoiling it, but despite all of us having particularly strong builds, our GM was crafty and we, foolishly, opted for hard mode.

The changes due to hard mode actually wasn't even what killed us, we did fine against those.

While not a TPK, there was a player death that was of particular amazement for me. We were in a crowd of people, waiting for an ambush we knew was going to happen. A few of us were hidden, a few of us in the crowd. The ambush occurs, and we're all trying to find where a specific pair of arrows came from, but came up with nothing. The next round our level 8 paladin (88hp) went from full health to -71 and nobody saw where it came from. The rogue spotted the attacker the following round, and the immediate area got hammered so hard I'd wager the stain was still there where it not for the extensive damages to the building.

I'd never seen someone get turned into a fine red mist like that before. o_o

scenario in question:
Ageless Ambitions

Grand Lodge ** Venture-Agent, Illinois—Bloomington aka Divvox2

Quentin Coldwater wrote:

You might be confusing me with someone else, I'm pretty sure I haven't played with you. >_>

But yeah, compared to a Paladin smite or a Ranger's efficiency, most Brawlers have very little going for them. They're certainly not bad, but I haven't seen one that wowed me yet.

I quite likely am! :D

I understand the view of brawlers, though I think Martial Flexibility gets wildly underrated, particularly at higher levels given all you can do with combat feats. My build also maximizes Sense Motive (+38) for the Snake Style tree which allows me to get an extra attack most rounds, dodge one attack, and auto-confirm any crits. They do come online in later levels because of how Martial Flexibility scales, though. Earlier levels only allow you to branch out in combat feats a little bit, but my brawler has been known to drop 300+ damage/round, get 5-6 attacks a round, and be able to roll a +30 on any combat maneuver instead of just one or two with almost no investment.

I'm a little sad they don't get much love. I feel like it has been my most cheese character since I started playing PFS.

Grand Lodge ** Venture-Agent, Illinois—Bloomington aka Divvox2

William Cleveland wrote:

I once played a table of day of the demon with a 6 player all human party. It was rough.

Things I see rarely
-Cavaliers, really uncommon around here. I have one of the few.
-Rangers, almost never.

There are probably several other things but those are the two that spring to mind.

I completely forgot about Cavaliers. Once in a blue moon I might see someone who dipped in a level or two to an archtype, but the last time I saw a full classed cavalier was 2-3 years ago.

Quenitin Coldwater wrote:
...I think Brawlers just aren't as flashy as other classes. One guy made it really work, but it's still kinda underwhelming compared to other martials, I think.


Though to be fair when you played with my brawler he was okay. I think it was a level or two later a lot of his abilities exploded and he's laid waste to many seeker arcs.

But now that you mention it, aside from two low-level exceptions, I've not seen another brawler... Which is too bad. The class is amazing, if a slow starter. Mechanically it is absolutely insane, but it has very little flair compared to a lot of classes.

Grand Lodge ** Venture-Agent, Illinois—Bloomington aka Divvox2

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Bahb, Herald to Kala Foerender wrote:
Sam King wrote:

-A human blender (Gencon)

My Mistress prefers to be addressed by her formal title


:D Best intro to a character yet.

Grand Lodge

Okay, I can probably provide some practical experience for this. I have a 14th level human brawler and have spent weeks on figuring out different builds for a grippli monk.

-It loooooks like you're already considering it, but Agile on an Amulet of Mighty Fists is an obvious choice. Just max your Dex out and have a decent AC along with your attack and damage.
-Brawlers = Best at combat maneuvers. I don't mean the highest CMB for a single maneuver, I mean they have a high CMB for ALL maneuvers, whenever they want. Make sure you take Power Attack and Combat Expertise so you can use them to dive into Improved Maneuver feats with Martial Flexibility. If you are really into a particular maneuver, get the Improved Maneuver feat, and no more. By the time you'd have the tree, you'll be able to spend a move action to get it for a fight, and at higher levels you'll only need a swift action.
-Power Attack is needed, because it's such a common prerequisite. I know it won't be great to dump 7 points into a penalty stat, but you're going to need the feat if you want to take full advantage of your class ability.
-Weapon Focus (Unarmed) is another big prereq feat. I'd also recommend Weapon Specialization, but probably ignore the greater versions of both. You can pass on Specialization if you want.
-Once you can afford it, get Brawling on your light armor anyway. I don't care if it's expensive. It's an untyped +2 to attack, damage, trip, disarm, sunder (unarmed), and grappling. It completely offsets your Brawler's Flurry penalty and then some, and it stacks with everything.
-There is 4k cracked Ioun stone that also bumps up your attack bonus by +1. This includes CMB. Grab it once you can.
-Grab Iron Will. You'll suck at Will saves and you'll need to cover that. You might even consider a clear spindle Ioun stone in a wayfinder for extra coverage against getting dominated and killing your party.
-Agile Maneuvers has already been mentioned, but will be necessary.
-Style Feats: These are hard, because they will suck up your feats. My brawler uses Snake Style, and ended up spending like... 6 feats for it, and that one has pretty low requirements. If you use a style feat tree that focuses on a combat maneuver, expect it to be useless sometimes due to immunity, and require more feats because you'll want the whole combat maneuver feat tree. I started out focusing on grappling, disarm, and trip but ended up keeping only Improved Disarm because when it matters it's incredibly useful and I normally don't have the spare action to grab it (swift and immediate actions are usually already spent).
-I find that if you want to be viable in the widest range of situations, you need to have good damage output. You can blind, trip, and grapple your opponent all day long, but it's still breathing and can potentially still kill you dead. As you get higher in level, rely more on Martial Flexibility and ensure you have the basic prereq feats to allow you to grab whatever you need.

Grand Lodge

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DungeonmasterCal wrote:
I'd LOVE to have some mammoth ivory dice from them. But there's no way I could ever afford it. I can't even afford to GenCon, so there's that.

Those are neat, but I'd never want to roll them because A) they'd be lopsided as hell due to density variance, and B) holy bajesus those are expensive what if I lost it or it hit cement and shattered no thank you!

I really like their flame treated titanium series, and I have one of the d20s. I'd -really- like the flame treated trimascus that has yellow and purple hues, but those are a cool $300 for a single d20. least I wouldn't be afraid of breaking it. >____>

Grand Lodge

-I one-rounded a villain my regional coordinator had been waiting to kill in PFS for the entire life of a character in a seeker-level game. I've never done that much damage in one round in my life. I didn't consider how much I was doing, or that I could even have done that mechanically. I thought I was going to just soften it up.

-I like very expensive D20s. Artisan Dice is my favorite, and I regularly get something from them every year at Gencon.

Grand Lodge ** Venture-Agent, Illinois—Bloomington aka Divvox2

Quentin Coldwater wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

also rarely see a wizard.

The "go to "spells are so much better than anything else, and such a prominant feature of the casting classes that most arcane casters feel kind of samey once the battlemat hits.

This. There are so many spells, but only a handful are actually good (coloured blue in all the guides), you're just making your character worse by not picking them. As a Wizard you get only so many free spells, so you go for the best options first, and never really get to buying your pet spells.

The above is one reason why I haven't had a wizard until I could build (and apply a ton of boons to) a Thassalonian wizard (level 8 I have 28 INT if that helps draw a picture). It lets me to pick crazy spells without giving up really strong options for when a scenario goes absolutely sideways. My current favorite is Fleshworm Infestation, but Touch of Slime is also fun. I haven't had an opportunity yet, but I also plan to enjoy Lesser Animate Undead (don't worry about it you silly paladin, the zombie bulettes burrowing below you aren't a threat!). Also a wayang because creepy gnome.

Things I've seen only once:
-A human blender (Gencon)
-A goblin character who thinks he's a long-dead hero (Local)
-A Shaman (Gencon)
-A Samurai (Gencon)
-I've only seen 1 Damphir, but they are this quarter's GM boon for conventions, so there are a ton on the horizon, including mine.

I've seen pretty much all of the other classes and races you can get without participating in the Paizo GenCon bids at least a few times, almost completely within a 60 mile radius too.

Time to get weird..
-A dragon using potions as a bra (in the scenario art and everything! Shaddup, that's totally what it looks like! Who cares if they are reptiles, not mammals. That hasn't stopped Paizo from giving them mammary glands anyway.)
-A Gnome Life Oracle of Zon Kuthon (okay, that one is my creation, but I've never seen anything like it)
-3 players, a father, son, and grandson, who where all playing gnome brothers. Best impression of the 3 stooges I'd seen in a long time.

Grand Lodge

Rule number 1 for GMing: help the players have fun.

If it helps the players have fun, go for it. If it doesn't, don't.

It really doesn't strike me as any more complicated than this because if a game isn't fun, why bother playing it? (Hard can be fun too!)

Grand Lodge ** Venture-Agent, Illinois—Bloomington aka Divvox2

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

I was actually surprised in a couple of scenarios to have my rogue's max'd level Disable Device *do* something for a change.

Usually it doesn't come up, but when it does, it's amazing.

I get the same thrill when my brawler's maxxed out Sense Motive comes up somewhere (though I rarely need to even roll anymore the bonus is so high... I just do it for the look on the GM's face if they haven't played with him yet), or when my Paladin's Perform(Sing) comes up... which is a shockingly large number of scenarios...

Grand Lodge

It is. You could do butterfly sting and then drop a high crit multiplier weapon on your Eidolon (x3 or x4). I've played with the build several times, and I find a Suli to be one of the better choices for obvious reasons, though you could get the same goodies with an aasimar or tiefling.

Typically you'll have lower Dex, 16-18 STR, 14-16 CHA, terrible INT, and at least 14 CON.

Personally I decided to use teamwork feats in my build (outflank, escape route, etc...) which lets me get into position for a flank and make up for the lower BAB.

I like the idea of using Butterfly Sting though. But I would go with a Nodachi or a Falcion. Alternatively you could do a dex build with TWF and Kukuri or something like that, but I am weary of the feat tax in that build. If you wanted to skip Butterfly Sting, you could keep it simple and use a longspear/spear, and save your feats for things that help you kick more butt. Obviously your Eidolon will be able to care for itself in combat.

Spell-Wise, you're chock full of buffing spells, so focus on those. No need to spend too many stat points in CHA when you need them in your physical stats.

Grand Lodge

SillyString: Somewhere in the rules is a bit stating that you can't use the same limb to make more than one type of attack, which is specifically meant to stop you from doing exactly what you're looking to do. :)

It's to keep the game balanced with numbers of attacks. It also means at higher level, some builds are going to be more or less effective. If you want a stupid amount of attacks, look at Gargoyles. You can hold a weapon(s) in two hands and attack with your iteritives there, and use the other 3 natural attacks on top of that.

Grand Lodge

"For every fight-ending ability there is an equal and opposite immunity."

A rod of Threnodic Metamagic seems like a great place to start. Also, scrolls of command undead will at least make mindless undead easy to deal with. If you're running into things like golems or other more rare mind-effecting-immune critters, you'll need to diversify your spells prepared to deal with them.

I'm a fan of Shadow Evocation/Conjuration spells for flexibility (though they are higher level), and glitterdust for all-around function.

Grand Lodge

RE: Snake Style and your request for comments.

It takes some dedication for it, but I've found it to be stunningly useful on my brawler. Currently level 14, he has a +38 to Sense Motive. Opening round charge attacks mean I can disarm/trip/sunder/punch an opponent and avoid the attack, THEN get a full round attack. It's also great against nasty ray attacks (Enveneration!) or poison stingers or anything else that could be potentially dangerous. I find that I usually have a decent chance to avoid even the super nasty one-hit/round monsters with absurd attack rolls.

More importantly, I find the fact that I can use it to confirm crits to basically auto-confirm whenever I roll a 20 on the dice. Even if I roll a 2, that's still a 40 to hit, and there are few things, even at that level, that I wouldn't confirm on. The rest of the abilities are secondary, but I should also add that a high sense motive has proven to be a great out of combat ability on a class that doesn't get many. For a monk, you've already got a great WIS, much better than my brawler, so topping 38 shouldn't be hard, or at least shouldn't cost as much money as I had to put into it (you can at least save the skill focus feat I spent on it)!

I think for a monk, however, the value is diminished a little bit as your touch AC (and regular AC) is already going to be pretty good. Still, I would recommend it a bit as I still use it to massively great effect even at my current level.

Grand Lodge

666bender wrote:

What feats / abilities allow dirty trick to be faster ?

Skulking slayer rogue dip
Quick dirty trick
And ....?

Quick Dirty Trick was the one I was referencing. Dirty Trick Master could be fun too, particularly when you have one big-bad boss to focus on.

Grand Lodge

Purplefixer is correct on the MAD builds having AC issues, particularly when you're focusing on unarmored, which is already behind the curve for PFS. After playing a low AC human brawler in PFS for 2 years and 14 levels, I found that survivability is an issue in many fights, and my brawler had 14 CON (later 18 with a belt bonus). So I would strongly recommend some method of avoiding damage, and possibly improving your CON a bit.

I found deflect arrows to be selectively effective in many lower level scenarios, but effectively useless further on, and it did nothing vs. melee attacks which are much more plentiful, so I used the brawler ability to freely retrain it into something else. I do still use it sometimes via Martial Flexibility when there are nasty ranged attacks coming in.

My solution was to invest in the Snake Style feat tree, which I've found to be extremely effective in fights on the front line. Typically in a fight I avoid an opening charge and then effectively my first turn is a full round attack. Once you get the full tree you also get AoO whenever someone misses you and confirm crits with Sense Motive. I don't need to worry about most ranged touch attacks, and I can prioritize the usage to avoid particular attacks in enemy full attack actions (poison, energy drain, etc...). It also works on touch attacks, so you'll always have uses for it. The out of combat benefits of a high sense motive are also pretty cool. Alternatively you could also do Crane or Turtle style.

Regarding Dirty Trick, I never used it, but the general consensus is that it's pretty great. I would strongly suggest getting the feats that allow you to drop it as one of your normal attacks though, so you're not sacrificing a full round just to blind someone for one turn (I think the feat is Quick Dirty Trick). If you can, at a later level, retrain some of the later feats into something else and use Martial Flexibility to grab them as you need them. This lets you dedicate your feats to things you'll ALWAYS be benefiting from, and grab situational feats as you need them. Once you can grab a feat as a swift action it gets a lot easier to do, and later when it becomes a free action you'll be doing it during most fights.

Kitsune Style: It's not bad, but that's a lot of feats for just dirty trick (6), and prevents you from using other style feats, which are a common method of avoiding damage. I think you could get 80% of that mileage out of improved, greater, and quick dirty trick feats. If you want to completely shut down your enemies though, it's a hell of a way of doing it. Woe be to you if you fail an attempt vs. a nasty melee fighter though. You won't get a lot of room for mistakes, and you'll be in trouble if the GM says some of those debuffs can't apply to the monsters you're fighting, but that's the risk when you hyper-specialize for anything. I'm mostly worried that your low HP will take you out of fights regularly.

Another option might be to take power attack and combat expertise and the Improved X feats for a couple maneuvers you like and use Martial Flexibility to grab the others as you find uses for them. You won't be the best at any of them, but you'll be able to do THEM ALL, while having feats to distribute into things like survivability and damage output.

Grand Lodge

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Shrink Item on a wide, thin plane of iron or some other heavy metal. 40,000lbs translates into 10lbs, and at 2cuft/lvl of material at level 5, you can do a 1 inch thick plate of material, you can get about 5 squares worth of space. Even a half-inch sheet for approximately 9 squares is only a huge sized object. Every level gets you (approximately) one additional square of coverage at .5" thick, and that's only if you read 2cuft to mean volume. Weight-wise, this is pretty impressive though, but unfortunately I don't think there is object collision damage per weight anywhere in the books. Getting hit by a huge-sized block of wood and a huge-sized block of lead is apparently the same amount of damage (officially).

On the other hand, still image of a hallway over a solid surface also has potential! :D

Grand Lodge

quibblemuch wrote:

For lower level casters...

1. Mark an X on the ground in chalk
2. Buy 16,000 pounds worth of anvils, less your weight
3. Rope trick directly above the X
4. Load the extradimensional space full of anvils
5. Wait till an enemy steps on the X and dismiss the spell ("Anything inside the extradimensional space drops out when the spell ends.")

That is legitimately a good idea if you get to set up an ambush. Mix that with Shrink Item and you can make that portable.

Grand Lodge

The Sideromancer wrote:

What if I make a horizontal Wall of Force, and then dismiss it after summoning something on top of it?

What if I stone shape something into a block on a thin post that can't support it?

What if I summon something that flies, and then remove its flight?

1: Seems reasonable, if not a waste of spells.

2: I think Wall of Stone requires a solid supporting structure in order to work.
3: It would seem that you have to summon flying critters on the ground too.

Grand Lodge

Tarantula wrote:

Each conjuration spell belongs to one of five subschools. Conjurations transport creatures from another plane of existence to your plane (calling); create objects or effects on the spot (creation); heal (healing); bring manifestations of objects, creatures, or forms of energy to you (summoning); or transport creatures or objects over great distances (teleportation). Creatures you conjure usually—but not always—obey your commands.

A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.

The creature or object must appear within the spell's range, but it does not have to remain within the range.

It doesn't work.

CURSES! Nice catch on that, we missed it completely. So much for new and fun uses of celestial whales or potted petunias.

Grand Lodge

A friend and I where discussing fun uses of spells and came across this option. Around Summon Monster V and VII you start getting fairly large critters to summon, and we were struck with the idea of using one, in the vein of loony toons, as a living anvil.

So, in this situation, I'd like to know how folks would handle this if a player decided to give it a try and you had to figure out how to play it. Assume, for the sake of argument, that the player has reach spell applied and can summon the critter an appropriately long distance away. I've included a storied example below with the rules that are clear to me, and follow up with where variation might start coming in.

A dragon takes flight to harass the party from the air. In a bad spot, the conjurer starts summoning something. At the start of the next round, approximately 200ft above the dragon, *BAMF* there appears a gargantuan dire crocodile, which immediately begins falling. Per the falling objects table, we can determine the likely amount of damage to be caused (8d6). This forces a DC 25 fly check to stay aloft, though most things at this level won't have trouble making that.

My Questions:
-Would you require a secondary roll for the "attack"? My VC suggested a ranged touch attack to determine where to aim at those distances, as a falling object doesn't care much about armor. Alternatively a reflex save could be used, but at these sizes, you could really start picking apart where and when one is allowed, particularly if the target is not near the edges of the crocodile's footprint.
-Does the summon get a single attack as it falls? Technically doesn't have an action to take to ready a bite before the falling kicks in (damn the lack of loony toons logic!), but I'll include it to see how people play it out.
-If, by some miracle, the dragon fails its fly check and plummets (lets say...) 150 feet to the ground. It is still technically under the crocodile. Does it suffer both the fall damage and a second object impact?
-What if I did this same thing but dropped it on top of a party of NPCs?

While much of this is inside of existing rule sets, there is precedent for several interpretations on how to handle this for the portions not covered (for example, reflex save or range touch attack). I'm also accepting that PF doesn't have a full enough ruleset to account for things like mass as it just makes a rough approximation based on creature size, so I know it won't be a perfect representation of the real world... I'm just looking for the PF representation here. Outside of the obvious "Expect table variation" reply, I'd like to know how you would deal with it.

Grand Lodge

I'd just like to toss this in... Even if you can't get around hardness, you're not useless. Don't forget combat maneuvers, disarm, grapple, dirty trick, trip, etc... Maybe most or half of your damage is negated by a critter, but as you level up you won't ever be useless. Grab a couple adamantine weapons (or just one) to get around the problem and otherwise just do what you can. It's not the end of the world to not be perfectly adapted to an AP, it just means you might need to get creative in a few fights, or focus more on damage output per hit (power attack for example).

I personally find the hunt for creative solutions in mal-adaptive situations way more fun than just winning every single situation I get into with the exact same approach. It also means I get to shovel in more flavor options without feeling overly kneecapped.

Grand Lodge

Therians wrote:
@Divvox2 i was thinking even of 1h weapons, even staying with crit 18 range but if you go shilded you have to forge casting in combat entirly, or did you find a way around that? Or did you go with buckler? Buckler and scimitar cuold be an option, but maybe only worth it when you can afford to have it enchanted, before i don't think the damage loss could be justified, but maybe yes...

With few exceptions, I found that I prep buff spells the most, and the majority of them are cast pre-combat or opening round (before I draw). Barkskin lasts long enough I can drop it when we get to the place we have to investigate, or during ambushes in the surprise round (all those skills allow for high perception and other skills). Same goes for energy protection/resistance. I only have one or two battlefield control spells, which are usually a first-round thing, or something I can put away my weapon and cast, then move/draw/attack the next round. I might miss out on an AoO, but my Ape has the reach and is more likely to drop a hit opening round. Weapon cords are also a thing.

Grand Lodge

In my experience a good chunk of fights happen in hallways or places where getting into a flank can be difficult or impossible. I opted to take my melee hunter a couple ways, which led to some fun build options. Pack Flanking lets you flank regardless of the layout. Even easier if you have a large companion with reach (phalanx formation makes this even easier).

At first, I wanted my hunter to be my first high AC build. At level 9 I believe I hit low thirties for both me and my Ape companion, not bad, but I haven't focused as much as I can. I also found that I hit a lot of traps (in-game) because of being a derp, so I decided for flavor I'd take a few levels of UC Rogue (currently 2). Mechanically I didn't use a lot of what this gave me, but it opened up sneak attack damage, effective trapfinding, and a bucket of skill points making me capable of dealing with most skill checks on some level.

I had specialized in 1-handed Falcata w/ shield earlier on, so my lower damage just got supplemented by the fact that pack flanking + outflank + sneak attack = massive boost in damage output. My Ape got narrow frame to help make up for being large, and now we can flank in a 5' hallway. Between the AC's 3 attacks averaging just over 20 damage a hit and mine which range from 30 on an average hit and 75 on a crit, we do all right. Since I'm crit farming, that also means the Ape gets an AoO every time I crit, so that's nice too. Stack on top of that the special ranger archtype tricks which allow you to mitigate massive damage to your AC or get them into position rapidly, I can manage the battlefield pretty effectively. Hunter spells making up for crazy situational issues. Even when I hit elementals or other flank-proof critters, I can still contribute with power attack and the ability to last through a fight.

Most of this is to say that the effectiveness of Pack Flanking depends entirely on how you want to play a hunter. For me, it means my To Hit bonus is close to or equal to full BAB classes, and my DPS is nearly there as well (except for flank-proof things).

Grand Lodge

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Crusinos wrote:
Simple solution: The third law of thermodynamics as science understands it is wrong. It's not the only one, but it's the most glaring example.

Speaking to the actual law you meant... It's also possible energy is coming from somewhere we're not aware of. At this point NASA has torn that thing apart and put it back together again a million times, so it's not complete crud. They've measure the output hundreds of times. They where correct to question it, and still are, but it's got enough evidence behind it that it's safe to say, "It seems to be outputting some energy but we're not sure how it's doing it." As I understand it, the article NASA released did suggest some possibilities using current theories (though not hugely popular ones). The more this thing works the more we'll dig to update our understanding of reality.

I'm glad NASA has the program to test out these sorts of inventions. A good deal aren't worth the investment or are straight up cons, but every once in awhile someone comes up with something good.

Grand Lodge


Level 1: Barbarian
Level 2-7: Arcanist
Level 8+: Eldritch Knight

For earlier levels you can use dimensional slide to hop past front lines and hit the squishy targets for nearly no effort, rage, smack them down, and then the next round pop out of rage and slide back out to sling some evocations. Overall your attack won't be absolutely maximized, but rage helps counter that, and a two-handed weapon will ensure good damage output.

For later levels you dig deep into the dimensional dervish line and transmutation. Be Mage Armor'ed almost always, rod of quicken to bring up Shield and then cast beast shape 2 for a gargoyle form. Ring of protection + ammy of natural armor will get your AC into stupid levels (40-50). Next round full round attack, letting you port around the battlefield doing large amounts of damage with your ~6 or so attacks (you can still use your armor and weapon in this form too), and end up in the air using your wings to fly. The party will spend a round getting themselves into the air, letting you destroy their mages in the meantime while landing some nasty hits on their front-liners, all without much opportunity to strike back. Eventually they'll ready actions to hit you, but that's a lot less DPS than what you'll be putting out. As long as you don't eat a save-or-die/suck early on (which is a problem for any villan), you'll be quite the challenge.

Grand Lodge

Brolof wrote:
Boots of the Earth gives you Fast Healing 1 while you have your feet planted, and can be used whenever. So it's kinda permanent, though not perfect.

It's important to note that (because it isn't clear) these only have a 1/day use in PFS, and both in and out of PFS you could argue you have to be touching natural earth, not worked flooring/stone. Maybe stone. It's sorta open to interpretation as far as I'm aware.

If you drop money on the expensive version of the Pearly White Spindle, it can increase the healing to 1/10min, so you'll heal full between days for the most part. At that point though, unless you're itching to get this early, you can probably save up for the ring of regeneration.

Grand Lodge

Brawler. Disarm their clubs, use snake style to avoid those massive attacks, have fun taking whatever feats whenever you want. Level 9 is about where the class starts ramping up in a big way!

Grand Lodge

Arcane Reservoir is a new concept for someone getting back into things, but in the grand scale it's pretty straightforward (You get X points, you spend them on the discoveries you have to do cool things like jack up spell DCs). But when you're first digging through it with nothing to model the new abilities after, it's a wall of text and garble. I'd disagree with the skillpoint thing though, being an INT castor they get as much as a rogue who dumped their INT a little, which isn't uncommon.

That said, I wouldn't ask someone diving back into the game to jump on the class. Bard is perfect in my opinion as it's a classic role/class that most people are going to know. Oracle would also be a great support class, but isn't going to be as familiar when you have to deal with all the mysteries, spell swaps, lack of domains, and curses for the first time. Not a huge challenge, but with all the kick-ass of their party they should be chewing through most encounters in ~5 rounds, which is usually going to be very survivable. Also, as a bard, you can UMD the crap out of scrolls in-case someone bites it.

Grand Lodge

I'd actually recommend a bard for a few reasons:
1) your party consists of a mess of frontliners/attack rollers, so your bardsong will make you an MVP.
2) You will be the knowledge/skill monkey they really need.
3) With shadow spells (Shadow Conjuration/Shadow Evocation) you can pretty much whip up whatever you need. This can get crazy, but I'd recommend sticking to classics (fireball, snowball, etc..) and easing into the pool of options
4) Everyone will love you.
5) Focus on classic buff spells like Haste, Heroism, Energy Resistance/Protection (communal versions!), Fly, etc...
6) Everyone will love you!
7) By level 15, a lot of the Bard's actions have gained a lot of action economy, so you'll usually be throwing out 2-3 buff actions in your first rounds (quickened rod to haste, start a bard song, and some other buff spell).
8) Also use classic debuff spells like GlitterDust or Grease. Your saves will be pretty decent, and even a round of blindness will give your party some great bonuses (also it counters invisibility). Grease won't be terribly effective... until you slap it on the big-bad's sword and he's gotta make a save or drop it every time he tries to use it. Everybody rolls poorly at some point, and a nasty giant without their tree-like greatsword isn't half as threatening.

Basically, don't go to be a combat powerhouse, keep it simple and work on making your party better. It's pretty much never going to change, everyone will appreciate your presence, and the shadow spells will give you all the flexibility you'll need to hop in for damage.


Expanding into the Future: Start collecting wands. Grab some wands of infernal healing and (for the paladin) Cure Light Wounds to heal the party between fights. Fairy Fire is a crazy useful spell to counter a lot of higher level illusion crap that gets thrown around. P

Grand Lodge ** Venture-Agent, Illinois—Bloomington aka Divvox2

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Nomrok wrote:


*Flexes 30 Strength muscles*
(in a friendly way, of course!)

DC 26 = Success

I'm impressed by your gusto, and muscles! You should come down to my bar/lodge/Temple to Cayden Cailean in Oppara and compete in our contests of strength, dexterity, and constitution! I've just come back from an important mission, and need a few drinks to celebrate my success!

Sraxx is now a 13 Brawler / 1 Cleric of Cayden Cailean after an epic series of fights going through All For Immortality!

Grand Lodge

While a trope, magical effects during periods of high stress are an easy way to work it out. Instead of some super flashy display, maybe as he is about to take a hit a single round shield effect pops into existence and saves him, but it knocks him prone due to the sudden discharge of energy. The rest of the party sees a flash of light and the rogue is down (preferably in a fight/situation where the rest of the party can cover the rogue as he recovers a full round later, or finish the fight).

I'd go with something that fits the rogue's tactics. If they're more combat oriented, the shield would work. If they do ranged, have a single magic missile go out as they pull back the string, distracting them from shooting but still doing the 1d4+1 damage. If they like stealth, pull a vanish effect, just tie it to whatever they're good at since that's what they'd be focusing the most on and have the most insight into. If it was a different bloodline I might try to make it thematic to that (red draconic bloodline = they sneeze fire when hit with a tanglefoot bag or something, like an allergic reaction, giving them a minor bonus to getting through it due to the fire burning off the material, etc...)

After that, have the player try to use spells sparingly for the first half of the level (as long as their willing) to ease into it since you don't have a chance to let it build up.

Grand Lodge

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I've been on a bit of a kick lately looking into various out-of-stereotype builds that are still effective. I'd like to hear what builds you've come across or have designed yourself that fall into this category, and why you enjoy playing them. Instead of a long description to define this, I'll provide a few examples and see what is offered up. I will add this: I'm not looking for the pinnacle of min/maxxing, just effective characters who have rocked and that you've had a blast playing, be it for role playing or for the mechanics.

Arcane Barbarian - Barbarian 1/Arcanist 7/Eldritch Knight 4+

This build was spun up by my local VL who has had a lot of fun playing a shocking effective character. With a greatsword he was able to port around the battlefield with Dimensional Slide and land very strong blows across his early levels with rage for particularly nasty fights once he was in place. Use of mage armor, shield and a few other spells let him have pretty good AC too. During the later levels of his build he would polymorph into a gargoyle and use the dimensional dervish feat tree to flank with the entire party and drop a mess of damage all at the same time, effectively buffing all melee characters for a single round while also dropping significant damage. His AC topped 40 and may have scraped low 50s through EOTT. He was more maneuverable than most builds I've encountered and could keep up with nearly any classes damage output, while still being fairly effective for skills.

Melee Summoner - (Unchained) Summoner X

Focusing on combat and not buffing as a summoner, this is something I've been toying with to see what I can get out of it, though still in lower levels. AC is around 20 at level 1 with spells, and will rapidly grow as time and money allows. I'm hoping to treat it similarly to a hunter, and branch into teamwork feats as time goes on. So far it's been really effective and I'm enjoying it. I've noticed my choice of Suli for race has caused me to rely a bit more on my Eidolon for skills, so I'm interested to see how that plays out as the build levels.

Grand Lodge

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I've actually wanted to build a home game around this critter. It getting "planted" during the rumblings of a civil war. Things start out with a village or town suddenly being empty (the zombies being used as proxies), but that only comes up to the party in side conversations and in context that suggests it was due to whatever side of the war they're against. Its zombies are blamed on the other side sinking to new lows/propoganda/etc... The war escalates and the Zygomind slowly grows and the players slowly start realizing that something else is at play here. As they figure it out and research very old records, they realize it's far beyond anything they can handle, so they go from fighting a civil war to trying to unify everyone against what is clearly (for them) the greater evil that will kill them all if they spend all their time killing each other...

Running into people who have been impacted by this creature in some way, or by a cult that's risen up around the zygomind and is trying to help it grow because they think it's some kind of god. I've thought about modifying a kingmaker game along these lines as well, but you could do it a few different ways.


The players would start out between level 1 and 3, I doubt they'd top 15 by the end of it... maybe around 12?

Grand Lodge

Holy cow, I just ran into these and this is extremely impressive. I particularly love the cutouts and stat cards! Amazing stuff!

Grand Lodge

1) Wayang - creepy is fun!
2) Suli - strong, charismatic, and dumb as a brick is fun as hell to play.
3) Gnome - I don't know why this isn't on all lists.

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