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SONG OF THE HORIZON WALKER
I was totin' my pack along the dusty Lamasara road,
I've been to:
I've been to:
I've been to:
I've been to:
(I've been everywhere)
I had some free time today, so 2011 data has now been sent off. Just from a rough review of the data as I was pulling it together, two things I don't see changing are the number 1 product and the number 1 publisher(s). But we'll see if my assumptions are borne out.
This will take me a while to get to.
Marc Radle wrote:
I'm still trying to decide what to combine, and what not to combine. Should Path of War Expanded and Path of War Expanded - Work in Progress be combined? What about things like The Book of Heroic Races Compendium and the individual releases that combines? [At least, I think there were individual releases.] What about Strange Magic and its contents, which I think have had three or four different versions? And I'm still not sure exactly what to do about OWC/SGG/RGG.
I'm looking for suggestions. And I'm strongly leaning towards combining Open Design and Kobold Quarterly. I have to figure out how to do it cleanly without damaging the integrity of the data.
In the previous Top 10 Products of All Time list, I accidentally conflated One on One Adventures (283 points) and Spheres of Power (243 points). Since you are all keeping detailed records of this, please insert One on One Adventures into 2nd place, and change Spheres of Power's total to 243 points. Thank you.
Here are the current running totals with 2010 added in:
Top 10 Products of All Time:
Despite the enormous success of OtherWorld/Super Genius, none of their products made it on the top 10 list. It was the large number of products that continually showed up on the list that scored big for them. The only new product is a set of paper minis. If one ignores paper minis, the list changes a bit: add Path of War Expanded-Work in Progress (109 points), Undefeatable 1: Wizards & Sorcerers (108), and Genius Guide to the Godling (105). Aha! There's a genius guide! If Path of War Expanded and Path of War Expanded-Work in Progress are added together, they end up with 148 points, and jump up, barely, to 6th place.
Top 10 Publishers of All Time:
Yes, OtherWorld Creations and Super Genius Games, individually, beat out our previous first-place publisher, just considering the year 2010. If one wishes to lump together OtherWorld Creations and Super Genius Games, and/or ingore Pathfinder Paper Minis and/or Big Finish Productions, add on Expeditious Retreat Press (283 points), Purple Duck Games (213 points), and Rogue Genius ... wait. And Fire Mountain Games (174 points), and add 213 more points to the OWC/SGG/RGG conglomerate. [It's over 2000!] Adding together Open Design and Kobold Press gives them 844 points, and moves OD/KP to 4th place.
The number of points each title is getting is lower than in 2009, despite 2009 not being a whole year. There were 83 distinct products listed in 2009, and 99 in 2010. There were 95 in 2015 (the only other year I have complete data for as of now).
One might also surmise that the Advanced Player's Guide came out in 2010.
Considering the titles we have going on up there, guess who's going to be on the Top 10 publisher's list?
Top 10 Publishers of 2010:
Did you guess correctly? Yes, indeed, the #1 and #2 spots are taken by OtherWorld Creations and Super Genius Games, for essentially the same product catalog. There's a significant drop between #2 and #3, a drop between #3 and #4, and a precipitous fall from #4 to #5. Many, many weeks were mostly OtherWorld/Super Genius, with a few Open Design, and an occasional guest appearance by one of our other contestants.
If one wishes to lump OtherWorld Creations and Super Genius Games together, and/or ignore Pathfinder Paper Minis, add Dreamscarred Press (28 points) and Louis Porter Jr. Design (21 points) to the list. Yes, Dreamscarred Press' Psionics Unleashed was ... unleashed ... in 2010. But, it only came on the list in the middle of December.
GM Rednal wrote:
*Imagines a group of magical girls who were empowered by Pharasma, and act as vigilantes within the city to keep the undead down*
One doesn't actually need to be a Magical Child Vigilante to play a magical girl ... and your description closely matches a character idea I have.
Distant Scholar wrote:
Marc Radle wrote:
Open Design is Kobold Press. The company simply stopped going by Open Design and is now know as Kobold Press.
Purple Duck Games wrote:
4 Winds Fantasy Gaming was purchased by Purple Duck Games.
Otherworld Creations was the parent company of Super Genius Games. Ask Owen Stephens for further clarification. Oh, which also means that most of the Super Genius Games products are now under Rogue Genius Games.
Dang it; I was hoping Owen would chime in on OtherWorld Creations first. I missed the hat trick.
The :-) was there to indicate that I actually knew what happened to the old companies. Thanks to y'all for spelling it out, though; there are probably folks here who didn't know.
Top 10 Products of 2015:
If one wishes to ignore the Pathfinder Legends series, add In the Company of Gelatinous Cubes (50 points) to the list. If that one was free, and you wish to ignore free products, add Everyman Unchained: Monk Archetypes (47 points) to the list.
Looks like this was the year for Spheres of Power. It's had success in 2016, but not as much as in 2015.
Top 10 Publishers of 2015:
If one wishes to ignore Big Finish Productions, add Ascension Games (61 points) to the list.
Since I don't have complete information for 2014, I haven't compiled a list for that year yet.
Here's what things look like in 2016:
Hooray for Kineticists! Hooray for One on One Adventures! Hooray for the Trickster! Hooray for assorted Dreamscarred Press projects! If one wishes to lump Path of War Expanded and Path of War Expanded - Work in Progress together, it goes up to 45 points, and swaps places with #5.
Top 10 Publishers of 2016 (so far):
Well, would you look at that #1 finisher. Rogue Genius is mostly Talented Witch, I think. Rite is probably In the Company of Dragons. And, as always, Expeditious Retreat Press is all about the One on One Adventures. Goodman Games came from their GM Gems early in the year.
And now, for the current running totals, with 2009 added in:
Top 10 Products of All Time:
An interesting mix of old and new. If one wishes to combine Path of War Expanded and Path of War Expanded - Work in Progress, Path of War Expanded jumps to 6th place (148 points). If one wishes to ignore the paper minis, add Kobold Quarterly 9 (105 points) and Path of War (98 points) to the list.
Top 10 Publishers of All Time:
If one wishes to ignore Pathfinder Paper Minis and Big Finish Productions, add Fire Mountain Games (174 points) to the list. I also feel compelled to point out that Kobold Press has 162 points.
A new set of lists!
I've compiled the data up to the 16 April 2016 (today!) "This Week in Paizo" e-mail. I also have the 2009 data that has been sent to me by Sethvir (thank you!). I've made changes in how the spreadsheet has been set up, so that it doesn't take so long to re-calculate everything. The original link should take you to the new spreadsheet, but I'll put a link to the spreadsheet here anyway.
I've also categorized things by year, so there will be more lists. I won't be repeating the yearly lists once the year is complete. They're aren't being presented chronologically, so read carefully!
Here are the new lists, starting with a blast from the (recent) past:
People sure liked their paper minis. If you don't, and want to ignore the game aids (minis/terrain/character sheet), add to the list Undefeatable 2: Clerics (68 points), Kobold Quarterly 10 (55 points), Undefeatable 4: Barbarians (41 points), Undefeatable 5: Fighters (35 points), Hungry Little Monsters [d20] (34 points), Curse of the Moon [d20] (33 points), and Darkness without Form: Secrets of the Mimic (32 points). I skipped over 2 more game aids on the way down.
A special note: Pathfinder RPG products didn't start showing up until late August; that may be one reason for the popularity of the game aids. Also, the lists started in April, so 2009 isn't a whole year.
I never saw an Undefeatable 10: Rogues for 2009; maybe it came out in 2010? If not, Louis Porter Jr. Design has some work to do...
Top 10 Publishers of 2009:
If one wishes to ignore Pathfinder Paper Minis and WorldWorksGames (Pathfinder Terrain), add Radiance House (37 points) and The Shining Jewel (19 points) to the list. Expeditious Retreat Press then just misses the list with 18 points for One on One Adventures, still on the lists today!
Adamant Entertainment is on there for their Fell Beasts series. And once for Tome of Secrets, although that's listed under Cubicle 7 Entertainment the rest of the times. Radiance House is on their for their d20 Pact Magic stuff. I understand that they've done (or are working on?) the Pathfinder version.
Open Design, OtherWorld Creations, 4 Winds Fantasy Gaming ... I wonder whatever happened to those old companies? :-)
For me, the tricky/annoying ones are the name collisions/near-collisions.
Name collisions are almost unavoidable, but I seem to find a lot more of them in Golarion than in Greyhawk or the Forgotten Realms.
I've been trying to keep track, mentally, of how many projects and products Dreamscarred Press is in the middle of designing and developing. I gave up, and decided to make a list instead.
Which ones am I missing?
First question: I'd imagine no maneuver is allowed in a grapple unless the maneuver specifically states it is allowed. Or, maybe, if the discipline uses weapons that can be used in a grapple, and the character is using such a weapon, those maneuvers can be used in a grapple. That last one probably isn't RAW.
Second question: By RAW, that looks correct; using Pride Movement would keep the character from getting bonus damage on a charge. It probably wouldn't break anything if you houseruled otherwise.
The sad thing is that most people don't realize that, if you argue in bad faith, your not actually arguing at all and essentially handing the argument to the opponent.
If one is making an emotional appeal, rather than an intellectual argument, arguing in bad faith might give one the emotional edge. Many (most?) people these days respond more favorably to an emotional argument than an intellectual one, which I think is unfortunate.
If one can argue on an emotional level, but force one's opponent to argue on an intellectual level, so much the better (apparently).
At least, if the end is to achieve something through discourse, then it serves both parties to argue in good faith.
Unless the end that one is trying to achieve is social dominance over the other party, or some other goal that isn't directly about the topic of discussion. Some people do that, which I think is also unfortunate.
Of course, these are debate tactics, and not good rules for an actual, constructive discussion.
Isaac J wrote:
4- The cursed needs to drain all the blood from an adult elf/human/semielf/semiorc, two adults gnome/halfling or two youngs from any of the mentioned breed once a day or they will take 1d3 temporal Constitution damage. 1 Cons Point/day will be restored as far as the cursed maintains its daily blood intake.
If the cursed person wants to go anywhere away from a city for any length of time, s/he'll have to take a herd of victims with him/her. This could cause all kinds of trouble. Whether it will break your game or not, I could not say.
It's also very evil, but I'm guessing you don't have a problem with that.
The Dungeon Master's Guild (used to be D&D Classics) has at least some of the PDFs for sale; $5 each.
DM Shade wrote:
@Distant Scholar: Basically the idea is this: An invisible character can still be hit, right? If thrown at with a bag of flour (or if a bag of flour is dropped nearby), some of the flour would stick on the invisible character and reveal his location.
But objects carried or worn by an invisible person are still invisible, aren't they? As long as they aren't glowing?
Edit: Found this under the invisibility special ability:
If an invisible character picks up a visible object, the object remains visible. An invisible creature can pick up a small visible item and hide it on his person (tucked in a pocket or behind a cloak) and render it effectively invisible. One could coat an invisible object with flour to at least keep track of its position (until the flour falls off or blows away).
I guess the question comes down to how well one can "coat" an invisible resisting creature with flour.
Ethereal Gears wrote:
Would countering invisibility with a bag of flour count, or is that actually already part of the rules? I can never remember whether that's strict houserule territory or not.
I always wondered how that "countering invisibility with a bag of flour" thing worked. I'm not seeing it.
Owen KC Stephens wrote:
Yeah. Something with a huge spike of popularity, but no sales for quite some time after, will show up, but not as a big deal. Something with almost enough popularity may never show up at all, even if the total sales are large. The products that would seem to do best by this metric are the ones that are quite popular rather often. Which, to be honest, happens to be exactly what I was interested in. :-)
I was more getting at the idea that the thrust of the thread initially seemed to be identifying the most popular 3pp products for PF, and that seems to be getting mixed a bit with identifying the most successful company, and these can be two very different things.
That's one reason why I made both lists.
I certainly can't claim to know the answer to either, but I just thought it was important to clarify that the metrics being used don't really account for all the variables in either question, and the answer to one isn't necessarily the same as the other.
I, as the collector and analyzer of the data, hereby solemnly swear that the metrics I'm using hardly account for any of the variables in either question. But, it's what I got.
If the retailers would like to send me all their information about how much of what products were sold when, I will gladly accept it. I promise I won't tell anyone.
I'm wondering what sort of crazy time-travel loops he's been through to get 117 years of experience in the RPG industry.
Marc Radle wrote:
It has been about a month, hasn't it?
I've compiled the data up to the 5 March 2016 "This Week in Paizo" e-mail. I haven't done anything with older data yet. The original link should take you to the new spreadsheet.
Here are the new lists:
If one wishes to ignore the Pathfinder Legends series, add Path of War (69 points). There have been some small changes in points (and 4 and 5 switched places), but the big new book is Kineticists of Porphyra.
Top 10 Publishers:
If one wishes to ignore Big Finish Productions (makers of the Pathfinder Legends series), add Purple Duck Games (114 points) to the list. The top 10 are identical, but some publishers had a jump of 30 or more points. Again, Purple Duck Games' Kineticists series brought them almost to the top 10.
I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
The problem with using comparatively obscure pantheons is that they're, well, comparatively obscure. I don't know a good source for myths/legends/backgrounds from such cultures, so I wouldn't be able to get a good feel for what their attitudes and personalities are, or what their interrelationships are. Good sources are probably out there, somewhere, but I don't know where.
The Power What Be at Paizo are of the (probably correct) opinion that the many, many campaign settings of 2nd edition AD&D is why, at least in part, TSR went under. They're not going to make another campaign setting.
On the other hand, with distant planets and alternate dimensions, it's not too hard to go somewhere quite different and still remain in the same multiverse.
Thanks for all the encouraging words. The data I'm using aren't the best for determining such things, but I don't have access to the best data, so one does one's best.
I wonder how much the top 10 list changes daily though. Since the emails are weekly, if there's a lot of day to day variation, then the weekly snapshots could be only 1/7th of the dataset. One way to check this would be to look at the top 10 list daily for a few weeks and see how much things change.
I'm assuming that the weekly list is the total over the whole week, rather than the daily snapshot for that particular day.
Is there a daily list? I don't recall seeing one.
Rite Publishing wrote:
That's an alternate way of doing it. I'm not convinced it's better.
Rite Publishing wrote:
But if you dont' think the biggest sellers are Frog God Game and Kobold Press your crazy.
I'm crazy! Crazy!
The Razi wrote:
Now annalyze the data from drivethrurpg and similar services... that could give an insight on the profile of shoppers here and there.
Is that data easily available?
Wolfgang Baur wrote:
...and I notice it only goes back to October 2014...
If I had earlier data, I'd use it. If someone found it for me, I'd incorporate it. [I've tried to find it, and failed.]
Due to random curiosity mixed with insomnia, I've created a list that (very) arguably presents the most popular 3PP products. Behold!
I found all the "This Week in Paizo" e-mails that I managed to save, and looked at the "Top Downloads from Other Companies" list. I gave 10 points to first place, 9 to second, all the way down to 1 point for tenth place. I added up the results. The lists contain the 10 products and 10 publishers with the highest scores.
There are many:
Link to Data:
You can download the Open Document Spreadsheet of the data, and my analysis, to work on it yourself. I intend to keep it updated as new information (or old information) comes in.
Top 10 Products:
If one wishes to ignore the Pathfinder Legends series, add Path of War (69 points) and Advanced Bestiary (67 points) to the list.
Top 10 Publishers:
If one wishes to ignore Big Finish Productions (makers of the Pathfinder Legends series), add Green Ronin Press (68 points) to the list.
Lord Mhoram wrote:
Heck I want a DSP version of the game that just uses only DSP classes, and has it's own setting.
When Dreamscarred Press gets around to updating their Third Dawn setting, you could probably do that quite easily.
Considering the number of projects they seem to be getting themselves into, I don't know how far this has been pushed down the line.
Klara Meison/Negotiator Bard archetype wrote:
Wow. I wish they wouldn't have used the phrase "take 20" there. It gives me visions of Maxwell Smart.
I'm guessing it showed up just after you posted, but the kickstarter page has an update entitled "The Traveler Pitch to the networks", dated January 16 (i.e., yesterday). I wasn't a backer, so I can't read what it says.
GM 1990 wrote:
Considering the possible ways this could be used by nefarious individuals, large quantities of ground rubies could also be considered a "controlled substance" by some kingdoms. It wouldn't stop you from using it, but if you planned something evil you'd need to get it "underground", which might cost more.
But, if ground rubies cost more, then you just need less of it ...
Do we have anyone who'll be playing a real tanky character?
Little Kee-rick will likely have an AC of 15, or maybe 16 if I lower Str and Cha for more Dex. And 10 hp. I'm guessing that doesn't count as tanky.
[The metamorph isn't supposed to wear armor, and has three (3) class features that can help make up for the lack, but one trickles in slowly and the other two don't come online until 4th and 5th level.]
I mean, would anyone in their right minds have generated the original Avengers with any kind of point buy system?
I get your point, but ... the early versions of the Hulk, Thor, Iron Man, Gi/Ant Man, and the Wasp? If the Wasp were purchased as a follower, and skills were relatively pricey, I could see it.
Kee-rik, grippli metamorph.
The grippli living in what humans call the "Fetid Bog" lead a simple life. They feel no need for fancy tools or buildings, instead living close to nature. A very few, however, have been blessed by the Goddess with even closer ties to nature. These select individuals have, or gain, features more like animals, and live more like animals as well, outside the grippli villages. They may protect the villages from outside forces, keep the swamps as a whole from being despoiled, or wander the world in search of the Goddess' will. Which one Kee-rik is will depend on how the campaign starts.
Kee-rik is more curious and inquisitive than others of his kind, particularly about the drylands, although he may not yet have ventured there. He likes to watch people and animals (and mobile plants), and see what they do. His curiosity extends to technology, although he doesn't understand it very well. Kee-rik doesn't speak much, and is a gentle, amiable soul. He's more likely to leave a uncomfortable situation than to try to change it. He's not afraid to confront evil, however, when needed.
male NG grippli metamorph (primal, bestial)
Str 12 / Dex 16 / Con 14 / Int 10 / Wis 16 / Cha 10
Evolutions: Bite, Claws, Improved Damage (bite)
Skills: Climb, Perception, Stealth, Survival, Swim / Knowledge (nature) and Knowledge (arcana) coming soon
Feat: Weapon Finesse
Gear: net, some rations, sling, maybe a sickle, not much else
I'm open to opinions on the crunch, if anyone sees anything too 'weak.' Small melee characters have something of a built-in disadvantage.
Let me know what else you might need for a formal submission.