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Diego Rossi's page

Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 8,455 posts (8,508 including aliases). 1 review. 1 list. No wishlists. 2 aliases.


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Liberty's Edge

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Jeff Merola wrote:


In fact, I'm probably going to reintroduce the Cure Minor Wounds spell in the next game I run.

Have pity of the poor caster sore throat. ;-)

Make it a cantrip that give fast healing 1 that last as long as you concentrate and touch the target creature.

Liberty's Edge

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James Risner wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:
This guys DM is already confirmed to be okay with this as long as the rules say it's okay. The rules say "Whatever the DM says goes".

The GM is free to allow the item, but you will never see any item like this printed. The boots of Fast Healing 1 is the closest to this item you will ever see made by Paizo.

WotC made a Belt of Healing in the MIC that was 750 gp and had 4d8 once a day or 6d8 if you used 3 standard actions. So a max of 6d8 healing a day for 750 gp.

Out of combat healing that isn't a wand is strongly discouraged. It breaks all kinds of parts of the game. It allows parties to not need a Cleric/Druid/Bard to use the Wands. An At Will item of healing isn't something I would ever allow in any game I ever played or GM.

Or wizard/sorcerer et c. with infernal healing if we go beyond the CRB.

Or a witch.

"Playing a healbot" don't exist in Pathfinder unless someone want to play it.

Healing is part of the resource management, and that is part of playing the game. Remove the need to use resources to heal and you change some of the basis of the game.

Liberty's Edge

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Baron Ulfhamr wrote:
So accordind to the item creations rules, it seems that my over 3 necromancer can craft a wonderous item that casts Cure Light Wounds all day for 2000gp (spell level 1 * caster level 1 * 2000). The party bard is assisting the crafting by casting the spell. This feels cheap somehow, but is it legal? The gm will allow it if rules support it.

1) Generally items that cast instantaneous spells have a number of daily uses, not a unlimited number of uses.

2) unless it use a body slots there is a x2 multiplier

3 and most important) Always compare what you are crafting to an existing item before using the table.

4) It should be a command word item, not a use activated, so the base is 1,800, not 2,000.

- * -

Existing cure X item:

Strand of Prayer Beads
Bead of healing Wearer can cast his choice of cure serious wounds, remove blindness/deafness, or remove disease.
Each special bead can be used once per day,
bead of healing –9,000 gp
CL: 5th (healing),

Reverse engineering of the price:
1 day use converted to 5 daily uses = x5 = 45,000
no body slot used converted to slot use = /2 = 22,500
3rd level spell, CL 5 =3*5 = 15 (you can cast only 1 of the 3 possible spells in a day)
22.500/15 = 1,500

It seem they are giving it the discount for "several similar abilities".
So, to remove the discount: 1,500/75*100=2,000

Personally I will not give the "several similar abilities" to a item like the Prayers beads, but I would consider it a command word item. The difference is relatively small.

So your item pricing:
5 daily use CLW item with a CL of 1
2,000 *1 * 1* 2 (no body slot) = 4,000 (2,000 to make it)

(later Edit: I hadn't read all the thread when I did make the post, your item use a body slot, hands, so it don't get the multipler. On the other hand, hands items use both hands, even if they are 1 single glove)

Depending on the campaign, it can be worth it, or not.
A CLW wand price is only 750 gp, crafting it is only 375 gp and it has 50 charges.
But it require a UMD check to use it if you don't have CLW in your class spell list.

The item cost a bit less than 5 CLW wands, so your campaign will last long enough that you will use it more than 250 times?
The added benefits for your necromancer to be able to use CLW without a UMD check is worth it?

I had already examined the possibility to make a similar item for my magus, probably it is not worth it money wise, but even with maximized UMD it is not guaranteed that I can make the UMD check.

A way to reduce the cost is to make it a wearable item (like a bracelet or some such, depending on what is your class).
A price of 2,000 gp and a production cost of 1,000 make it more interesting.

As I said above, I will make it a command word items, so 1,800/900 is mi final price.

- * -

Edit:

The usual citation:

PRD Ultimate Campaign wrote:

Pricing New Items

The correct way to price an item is by comparing its abilities to similar items (see Magic Item Gold Piece Values), and only if there are no similar items should you use the pricing formulas to determine an approximate price for the item. If you discover a loophole that allows an item to have an ability for a much lower price than is given for a comparable item in the Core Rulebook, the GM should require using the price of the Core Rulebook item, as that is the standard cost for such an effect. Most of these loopholes stem from trying to get unlimited uses per day of a spell effect from "command word" or "use-activated or continuous" descriptions.

- * -

Boots of the earth:
I think they are a badly thought item.
Fast healing 1 when standing still for 5,000 gp is too good.
Especially as there is no requirement to touch earth/rock at all.
You are on the 3 level of a tower, on a wooden floor? They work.
So that "of the earth" si a misnomer.

The only question is if that "move action to plant your feet" should be repeated every round. But that is irrelevant for out of combat healing and would be a big hindrance for in combat use. Trying that to reduce their benefits would only make them even more of a "out of combat" healing item.

Liberty's Edge

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FAQ wrote:

Temporarily gaining abilities: If I temporarily gain an ability that is limited in its uses per day, am I limited in my overall uses of that ability if I can temporarily gain it more than once?

Yes. You are limited by the ability in the same way as a character that has that ability permanently. For example, if you have an ability that allows you to gain the Stunning Fist feat for a limited period of time and you use it 3 times. Those uses count against your total number of uses should you temporarily gain Stunning Fist again later that day. This limit also applies to abilities that grant additional uses of another ability (such as Extra Channel). Once used, they are consumed for the day, even if you gain the ability again.

I think that this FAQ show that daily use of a ability are limited to that number of uses in a day and you can't gain them multiple times in a day.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

You can give me the name of another resource that share the coal advantages?

Restricted area where you can harvest it;
needed in great quantity;
hard to transport.

So, why whoever control the NW corner of the map should have a virtual monopoly of a vital resource while no other piece of the map can get it as there is no resource with the same advantages?

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

Schedim wrote:

Trading, trading and again trading!

Bartering, not trading, and that is a stumbling block.

The cost of the materials is based on general rarity and "cost" of transportation.

Coal is extremely rare in every location beside a corner of the map and transporting meaningful quantities is a a core.

So, simply on the basis of its weight and usefulness it is worth x5 any other base resource, or at least it is how I would price it.

I will barter it for the same weight of a resource that can't be found in the NW corner of the map, but most of those resources have a weight of 0.1 and way less demand.

Iron can be found everywhere. Why coal is so concentrated when it is a basic resource like iron?

I don't know any other base resource that share that limit.

Neadenil Edam wrote:


There are also no brand new players willing to haul to gain a start in the game.

Eventually there will hopefully be a batch of new players who will happily risk the pvpers and spend 4 hours hauling coal in return for a suit of +1 armor or robe and a matching +1 sword or staff.

If I am not mistaken, it require something like 14 units of coals to make a +1 metal armor. the day we will see enough newbie to have a few interested in this proposal we sill have containers and the base carrying capacity will be halved.

So your willing newbie will be capable to haul 50 units of coal and 1/4 of that will be used to pay him.
If he is capable to make the trip back and forth with the stuff to barter with the coal gatherers and the coal itself and if he can be trusted with the trade items.

Again, it don't seem a feasible mechanic for a basic resource. Especially if the gathering speed for coal is the one I have seen the last time I have done a trip in the area.
A skill 6 miner did get about 50 units of coal in more than a hour of gathering (before the last patch).
The same miner can get that amount of iron in 40 minutes while hunting for copper or silver, or half of that as an incidental byproduct of checking trash heaps.

I am perplexed about the coal rarity. I would be curious to know the actual quantity of coal against the quantity of iron present in the map.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

The problem is when a basic and heavy resource like coal is concentrated in a single corner of the map and then, apparently, is removed from the midden heaps.

Silver can be found in at least 2 different corners, copper is in a reasonably central position, but coal is found in the mineral nodes in NW and before the last patch was found in the midden nodes in the NW again.

Beside that only a few midden nodes had it and apparently they haven't it anymore.
For a resource that is needed for the metal armors it seem a bad distribution. (for weapons you can use cold iron)

Liberty's Edge

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Ughbash wrote:

While probably (read definitely) excessive.

Assume a bard takes Improved Eldritch Heritage Arcane.

Let's say he picks "See Invisibility" as his spell. This is a Sorceror/Wizard 2 but also bard 3.

By my understaning he picks a sorceror spell but since it is ALSO on his list he should now be able to cast "See Invisibility" as a second level spell instead of third.

Is this correct?

No, the spell on his list is "See Invisibility, spell level 3, bard spell". Not "See Invisibility, spell level 2, sorcerer/wizard spell", nor "See Invisibility, spell level 2, summoner spell" or any other version of it.

Liberty's Edge

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thejeff wrote:
Uwotm8 wrote:
An unfortunate reality is that small wording tweaks could fix a LOT of things! However, we are more likely to see sweeping ruling in FAQs. It's ridiculous, but it's what Paizo seems intent on doing. My guess is they're concerned to the point of paranoia over page counts. That's a new Holy Grail.
The problem is that it's small wording tweaks in lots of different places along with a policy of only doing errata when a new printing comes out, which means if you fix it that way, you're probably dealing with it for years, if not indefinitely in some cases.

The problem is that a small wording tweaks don't resolve all the conflicts but only the one where you do the wording tweak.

The FAQ instead resolve several conflicts at once and generate way less.

It give a clear general ruling for future abilities: "If you want to add spell to a class from a list outside of its own you need to specify that they can add them to their spell list."

It is a very important guideline for future writers of new abilities.

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PRD wrote:
Alternate Racial Traits: This section lists alternate racial traits for each of the seven core races. Many of them play on racial themes not reflected in the standard racial traits, like the elven alternate racial trait fleet-footed, which grants the Run feat and a bonus on initiative checks instead of the normal keen senses and weapon familiarity traits, reflecting the grace and uncanny reflexes of that race. To take one of these alternate racial traits, you must exchange one or more of the existing standard racial traits available to the race. You can exchange one or several of the standard racial traits, but you cannot exchange the same racial trait more than once. For example, an elf who takes the fleet-footed racial trait cannot take the urbanite racial trait, because the latter trait also replaces keen senses.

The skileld racial trait is one of the standard racial trait for a half- orc? No, so you can't exchange it.

Liberty's Edge

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Casting CLW isn't using a weapon like spell.

Liberty's Edge

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Rodinia wrote:

@ Diego Rossi: That's just plain wrong. It's already well established that Escape Route works as That Crazy Alchemist just used it. A GM might create a house rule disallowing it, although I don't see why.

If this teamwork feat does not work for a rider and mount, please provide even one example in which this teamwork feat makes even the smallest bit of sense.

Excuse me? A PFS GM has allowed it so it work that way? And if another PFS GM interpret the rule differently?

They aren't the developers, nor the final rule judges, they are GM, like you or me. Read the PFS forums a bit, you will find plenty of posts about GMs doing wrong calls.

My interpretation can be wrong, but the opinion of one or several PFS GM don't make the other interpretation right.

- * -

The problem with mounted combat is that you aren't moving through a ally square or a square adjacent to an ally. You are in all the mount squares and both of you are a single object that is moving.

RAI it is possible that this feat was meant to work with a mount.
RAW? I don't see it working, as you aren't moving separately from your mount. You are a single unit moving.

Liberty's Edge

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Byakko wrote:

Relative movement? We're not doing high level physics here. If you've moving and you're near an ally, you don't provoke. Note there is no mention of the mover having used a move action, just that they are moving. Heck, an enemy could even use a power that forces you to move, and this feat would still prevent the provocation.

Anyway, yeah it works. It also works if you have a familiar with the Valet archetype. It's pretty cheesy and could probably use an errata.

Still, it's hardly the most powerful feat out there. Power Attack, Quicken Spell, Rapid Shot, and the like, are still ultimately better than this in most cases.

It is not "relative movement". It is one unit moving a as block or 2 units, one saying stationary, another moving.

I agree with Bobbodagreen, if a rider and his mount move together at one initiative count, they don't benefit from this feat.

About the inquisitor and solo tactic:

PRD wrote:
Solo Tactics (Ex): At 3rd level, all of the inquisitor's allies are treated as if they possessed the same teamwork feats as the inquisitor for the purpose of determining whether the inquisitor receives a bonus from her teamwork feats. Her allies do not receive any bonuses from these feats unless they actually possess the feats themselves. The allies' positioning and actions must still meet the prerequisites listed in the teamwork feat for the inquisitor to receive the listed bonus.

It is the inquisitor turn to move.

He has an adjacent ally.
He treat his companion as if they had the feat.
He get the feat benefit as: 1) he is moving in a square adjacent to someone with the feat; 2) he has the feat.

Liberty's Edge

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No, any weapon can sunder another.

The items hit point are here.

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I think that the ability to make them is supernatural, not the extract, but probably your reading of the rule is the correct one.

Liberty's Edge

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Kchaka wrote:
Gloves of Elvenkind +5 Competence to Spellcraft

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Advanced Race Guide

Kchaka wrote:


Armillary Amulet +5 Competence to Spellcraft

Pathfinder Module: From Shore to Sea.

Not exactly common items, the second in particular.

Liberty's Edge

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Claxon wrote:

Yeah, its a fluff thing. The easiest way to make it work when the alchemist was written that it was supernatural which are

Quote:
Supernatural Abilities (Su): Supernatural abilities are magical but not spell-like. Supernatural abilities are not subject to spell resistance and do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated (such as an antimagic field). A supernatural ability's effect cannot be dispelled and is not subject to counterspells. See Table: Special Ability Types for a summary of the types of special abilities.

They just happened to closely resemble spells in mechanical implementation, but they aren't spells.

Making extracts supernatural is a really bad idea. That would make the not subject to dispelling and that is a BIG buff.

You really want to gift a class with spells up to level 6 that can't be dispelled?

Liberty's Edge

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Byakko wrote:

I'm actually pretty sure I know the module you're talking about now. Yes, it says the PCs find themselves in a thunderstorm if they don't go where the mod wants. This doesn't mean you have to teleport them straight into the center of the storm, even for PFS!

That seem more like: "The PC go in the wrong direction, there is a storm brewing, the PC see it at least several minutes in advance while it approach them (that is what happen, unless it is a magical storm), then they are at the edge of the storm, then the storm move over them and at the end of the hour it has moved away or dissipated."

If that is the case, I don't see any need to have them in the center of the storm at any time. Just a Guess gave some good suggestion for low level PC.
I would have them hit by an hailstorm while the edge of the storm pass over them, with them seeing the lighting bolts hitting nearby things.

Liberty's Edge

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Can you give me the module name? I have most of them and maybe can see it at home to get a better idea of the situation.
If it is the one I think

Spoiler:
high level and with a cloud giant
there are reason for the storm and it was written for the 3.5 so there can be some discrepancy on the rules.

As a minimum, I would allow a survival roll with a DC of 15 (avoiding an hazard) to halve the chances of being struck for all the party members and a reflex save to halve the damage, with the DC based on call lighting storm (from memory, DC 17).

Base chance of a single character being struck every minute: 100% if taking no precautions.

To divide the risk between the party members: tall (human, elf, etc.) guy in metal armor or with a lot of metal 4, tall guy with little metal 2; short guy (Halfling, gnome) in metal armor 2, short guy with little metal 1; dwarf in metal 3, dwarf without a metal armor (really?) 1.
Add all together and roll the nearest dice to see who is struck.

More or less it should work.

Edit: strength of the bolt:
(2+2d4)d10. Average 7d10.

Further edit:
1st level?
Ouch.

I don't think the writer was thinking at all about the thunderstorm rules in the CRB. Probably an oversight between the writer and the guy that did the revision before printing.

A hailstorm seem more than enough for 1st level characters.

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Too logical, Ashiel.
;-)

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Chemlak wrote:

To inject a little realism, lighting tries to follow the path of least resistance to earth, with pointy things being more likely than flat things, and conductive materials being more likely than resistive things. Fear wearing spiked armour. But trees, being taller, are more likely to get hit.

Not a big expert, but isolated trees or trees that are noticeably taller that the others are more likely to be hit.

Isolated cypress? It a lighting magnet.

In the middle of a deciduous forest, possibly in a depression and away from the tallest trees? Relatively safe.

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First, it would be a good idea to put this post in the section of the forum about the specific module, maybe someone has already resolved your problem. We lack too many information about the module, supposed PC level and so on to reply with some accuracy, and if you give the needed information your posts and the replies would require spoilers.

Second can pose a hazard to characters without proper shelter isn't the same thing as will unerringly strike characters without proper shelter.
The PC are in the center of the thunderstorm?
Can't move away?
Can't find shelter? (i.e. they are in a featureless plain? Even crouching into a ditch can give a modicum of protection against lighting strikes. Not being the tallest item in the area help)
No one can make a survival roll to reduce the hazard?
What is the DC of the reflex save to halve the damage? (You or the module should give one, it is an area attack as all others)

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Marroar Gellantara wrote:
Quote:

Spell-Like Abilities (Sp) Spell-like abilities are magical and work just like spells (though they are not spells and so have no verbal, somatic, focus, or material components). They go away in an antimagic field and are subject to spell resistance if the spell the ability is based on would be subject to spell resistance.

A spell-like ability usually has a limit on how often it can be used. A constant spell-like ability or one that can be used at will has no use limit; unless otherwise stated, a creature can only use a constant spell-like ability on itself. Reactivating a constant spell-like ability is a swift action. Using all other spell-like abilities is a standard action unless noted otherwise, and doing so provokes attacks of opportunity. It is possible to make a concentration check to use a spell-like ability defensively and avoid provoking an attack of opportunity, just as when casting a spell. A spell-like ability can be disrupted just as a spell can be. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled.

For creatures with spell-like abilities, a designated caster level defines how difficult it is to dispel their spell-like effects and to define any level-dependent variables (such as range and duration) the abilities might have. The creature's caster level never affects which spell-like abilities the creature has; sometimes the given caster level is lower than the level a spellcasting character would need to cast the spell of the same name. If no caster level is specified, the caster level is equal to the creature's Hit Dice. The saving throw (if any) against a spell-like ability is 10 + the level of the spell the ability resembles or duplicates + the creature's Charisma modifier.

Some spell-like abilities duplicate spells that work differently when cast by characters of different classes. A monster's spell-like abilities are presumed to be the sorcerer/wizard versions. If the spell in question is not a sorcerer/wizard spell, then default ...

So I found a reason as to why monsters may not add 1/2 cl from the fly spell effect.

As it turns out monster SLA entries are not reliable ways to determine how spells work.

I don't know how you get the conclusion from the premise.

We have the CL of the fly spell like ability
Fly give a bonus based on the caster level.
It is not relevant at all if the spell is taken from the wizard or Magus list. it is a fly spell with a caster level of 6.

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Marroar Gellantara wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
Marroar Gellantara wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
Whatever way you look it, it is wrong.

No it works just fine.

Either as:

4 (good maneuverability) + 4 size + 3 (sla bonus) + 3 ranks + 1 dex = 15

or

4 (good maneuverability) + 4 size + 3 class bonus + 3 ranks + 1 dex = 15

Outsiders have 4 class skill that they set as appropriate for the theme.

It is appropriate for the theme of an outsider with a constant Fly spell to have the fly skill as a class skill.
As it is appropriate for wizard and sorcerers.

Our Cythnigot has exactly 6 listed skills, the exact number of the class skills for an outsider.

You are assuming there. Either way that outsider only has 3 skills that would qualify as additional, so all 4 are not being used. Outsiders do not pick these skills the devs pick these skills.

No, I have done the math, differently from you:

Our Cythnigot has exactly 6 listed skills, the exact number of the class skills for an outsider. (wrong, they are much more, they have 4 free class skills)

Total skill ranks:
6*3= 18 (int 11, no bonus)

Acrobatic +7 skill rank used 3 (4 from class skill + dexterity=
Fly +15 skill rank used 3 (see above)
Knowledge (nature) +6 skill rank used 3 (class skill)
Knowledge (planes) +6 skill rank used 3 (class skill)
Perception +5 skill rank used 3 (class skill -1 for wis 8)
Stealth +15 skill rank used 3 (class skill, dex +1, tiny +8)

Exactly 18 ranks used and 6 class skills.

Edit

Outsiders:
Skill points equal to 6 + Int modifier (minimum 1) per Hit Die. The following are class skills for outsiders: Bluff, Craft, Knowledge (planes), Perception, Sense Motive, and Stealth. Due to their varied nature, outsiders also receive 4 additional class skills determined by the creature's theme.

So our guy has a an undetermined class skill, but it make no diffrence as hit hasn't put skills in it.

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Marroar Gellantara wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
Whatever way you look it, it is wrong.

No it works just fine.

Either as:

4 (good maneuverability) + 4 size + 3 (sla bonus) + 3 ranks + 1 dex = 15

or

4 (good maneuverability) + 4 size + 3 class bonus + 3 ranks + 1 dex = 15

Outsiders have 4 class skill that they set as appropriate for the theme.

It is appropriate for the theme of an outsider with a constant Fly spell to have the fly skill as a class skill.
As it is appropriate for wizard and sorcerers.

Our Cythnigot has 6 listed class skills,

Total skill ranks:
6*3= 18 (int 11, no bonus)

Acrobatic +7 skill rank used 3 (4 from class skill + dexterity=
Fly +15 skill rank used 3 (see above)
Knowledge (nature) +6 skill rank used 3 (class skill)
Knowledge (planes) +6 skill rank used 3 (class skill)
Perception +5 skill rank used 3 (class skill -1 for wis 8)
Stealth +15 skill rank used 3 (class skill, dex +1, tiny +8)

Exactly 18 ranks used.

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Marroar Gellantara wrote:
Wheldrake wrote:
Why would this necessarily be different from other types of maneuvers you might attempt that require a fly skill check? I mean, conceptually I totally agree with falling if you fail to hover. But I don't really see why this case is different from other maneuvers. You could say the same about any maneuver. "You failed a check, so you are no longer flying and fall because you stopped flying."

I did not say you fell because you failed the check.

You fall because you did not take any fly actions.

You can fail to hover by 4 or less, then take a normal fly maneuver and be just fine. If you don't have wings you can fail to fly by 5 or more to hover, then move and be just fine. If you don't perform a simple or complex fly maneuver during your turn, you stop flying because you did not fly during your turn.

You do not lose actions from failed fly checks. The skill says you are not even aloud to take the action if you don't make the check.
If we could all stop trying to force "what makes sense" or "how we feel" onto the fly skill, then the words it says become a lot more clearer.

The problem is that you make the fly check to move at less than half of your speed at the end of your move.

So, to make an example: full attack when airborne, then I move 5' away. What happen?
What move I am making as I have no move left?

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Ckorik wrote:
Snorter wrote:


The ghost's flight is a natural fly speed, since it's a permanent movement mode that one gains from becoming a ghost. It's not gained from casting a spell or using a spell-in-a-can item.

Rob didn't explicitly answer the question that was being asked; an explicit answer would have been "Yes, a ghost's flight is a natural fly speed.".

Instead he implies this is the case, by explaining the math behind the final bonus, and confirming that they gave the sample ghost the +8 bonus she would be expected to get from having a natural fly speed.
And from that, we would deduce that ghost flight gives a natural fly speed.

That ignores my second example.

A Qlippoth Cythnigot has a constant 'fly' spell-like ability and gets the bonus.

Spell-like abilities can be dispelled. They aren't (Ex) or (Su) - and yet it gets the maneuver bonus from an outside force.

There are many more - I'll keep trotting them out because from my (admittedly non-exhaustive) research the Paizo dev's have been consistent with how it's used. Which is opposite of what you are saying.

You'll note this is in 'general' so RAI is exactly what we are talking about here.

Speed 40 ft., fly 60 ft. (good)

Spell-Like Abilities (CL 6th, concentration +4)
Constant—detect law, detect magic, fly
Skills Fly +15
hp 16 (3d10)
Dex 12

Let's see: Class skill +3, maximum rank, +3, tiny +4, fly spell, cl 6 +3, dex +1 = +14

So it get the bonus for good maneuverability but lose the bonus for the caster level of the fly spell.

Whatever way you look it, it is wrong.

Cerberus Seven wrote:

]

This particular outsider was written up wrong in the numerical department. It's only 3 HD, so the max fly bonus it should have, even IF it had a completely natural fly speed, would be 3 (ranks) + 3 (class skill) + 1 (Dex) + 4 (maneuverability) + 3 (1/2 level SLA, just because) = +14. That's one point short of the +15 they put in there. So, yes, the devs screwed up. SKR once jumped into a rules thread and explained that the planetar out of the first bestiary had it's spells/day as a cleric done wrong. Mistakes happen.

EDIT: it's possible the devs intend for constant SLAs to be considered a 'natural' part of a creature's abilities. It would explain why we see under true seeing under a balor's 'Senses' area and unholy aura in the 'Aura' area of its stat block when those things can be...

You missed the size bonus, it is applied to all kind of flight.

So the Cythnigot should have +18 if both the spell bonus and good maneuverability are applied or +14 if the good maneuverability don't apply.

Instead the math is consistent with a tiny creature, with maximized ranks and good maneuverability but no bonus for the Fly spell.

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Marroar Gellantara wrote:
Matthew Downie wrote:
RAW, the Fly spell gives good maneuverability, and that does nothing at all because the bonus for good maneuverability only applies to natural flight.

That isn't true at all. You are applying a general rule to take precedence over a specific ability.

That is not how the game works.

You are not being "good at the rules". You are going out of your way to not understand them and create contradictions where there are none.

Maybe you have missed it the few times it has been pointed out, but the Fly spell specific rule [b]don't[b] say that it change the general rule.

It only say that fly give a specific maneuverability, not that you get to use that maneuverability bonus to the check it even if you don't have a natural fly speed.

Without that exception there is no "specific rule to override the general rule".

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Dotted for interest

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Gisher wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:

Attacks are sequential, even natural attacks.

Holding the charge don't specify that you need to keep it in a specific hand and the magus example show that you can "move" it from the hand to the weapon to another weapon.
The magus example shows that you can "move" it from the hand to the weapon to another weapon… if you have the spellstrike ability.

Before that FAQ there wasn't any question at all as the charge was stored in each one of your appendages.

With that FAQ it has been moved to a specific appendage at a time, but nowhere it say that you have to specify what appendage and that it is a fixed location.

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Ckorik wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:

No, not there, the citation there is the one I made, with natural fly speed in it. the bonus isn't applied if you fly with a supernatural ability or a spell.
Check what you linked and you will see it.

Rob McCreary wrote:
Ckorik wrote:

Rob - regarding the ghost on page 43 - should they have an additional +8 on the flight skill for having (perfect) flight?

I'm unsure if the ghosts flight ability would be considered natural - based on the stat block it's not - but I was wondering if you would comment on that.

Her Fly skill does include the +8 bonus for her maneuverability, but it also includes the -5 armor check penalty for her armor.

I quote a Dev here for one reason - the ghost template doesn't give a 'natural' fly speed - it just gives fly (perfect).

Yet the devs add the bonus into the creatures stat blocks.

Apparently when a maneuverability rating is listed it is for a 'natural' fly speed.

At least that's how the Dev's do it.

The Dev as done it right, you are interpreting it wrong.

PRD - ghost wrote:
Speed: Ghosts lose their previous speeds and gain a fly speed of 30 feet (perfect), unless the base creature has a higher fly speed.

The creature gain a fly speed, i.e. it has a fly speed. That is a natural fly speed, as all the movement types in a creature stat block.

A creature that get the supernatural ability to fly for 10 minutes 3 times in a day or that can cast the fly sped don't get a natural fly speed, it get the effect of a supernatural ability.

Bob Bob Bob wrote:
"Natural" has nothing to do with natural things in the real world. A natural fly speed is a fly speed that is an innate part of a creature and cannot be removed, dispelled, or otherwise taken away (without an anti-magic field, because some flight is SU). A ghost totally has a natural fly speed. A creature that casts overland flight/fly does not. A creature with an item that casts fly/overland flight does not. A creature with continuous fly does not.

This!

As an example a witch with the Fly hex has a supernatural ability that allow her to fly, but it is not a natural fly speed, as it isn't added to her forms of movement.

A druid shapechanged in a bird has a natural fly as the polymorph rules say: "In addition, each polymorph spell can grant you a number of other benefits, including movement types, resistances, and senses." and the beast shape I spell say: "If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: climb 30 feet, [b]fly 30 feet[b] (average maneuverability), swim 30 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, and scent." I.e. you get the creature movement type.

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James Risner wrote:

Swarms differ in Pathfinder from 3.5. In 3.5 all swarms were shapable; In pathfinder only swarms of multiple swarms.

They can also move across you and damage you, so she could have all 10 of them move across you and stop elsewhere. Each one of them dealing damage. But only the one on you will cause distraction.

As for more than one swarm in a square, it comes down to which rules you prioritize.

Core wrote:
25 Diminutive creatures or 100 Fine creatures can fit into a single square.
Bestiary wrote:

Tiny creatures consists of 300 nonflying creatures or 1,000 flying creatures. A swarm of Diminutive creatures consists of 1,500 nonflying creatures or 5,000 flying creatures. A swarm of Fine creatures consists of 10,000 creatures.

Swarms of nonflying creatures include many more creatures than could normally fit in a 10-foot square based on their normal space

Either you work with the limits on diminutive and fine creatures that fit in a square (non-flying) or you ignore those limits by prioritizing the "many more creatures than could normally fit" rule.

Both interpretations are RAW.

Sorry Risner, but the bolded part is wrong. A swarm damage you only at the end of its move.

PRD wrote:


Swarm Attack: Creatures with the swarm subtype don't make standard melee attacks. Instead, they deal automatic damage to any creature whose space they occupy at the end of their move, with no attack roll needed. Swarm attacks are not subject to a miss chance for concealment or cover.

Note that is move, not move action. So the swarm make all of its move, single or double action is irrelevant, and then damage what is in the space it occupies.

- * -

I agree with you RD, several swarms made of the same kind of creatures will form a larger swarm, not share each other space.

Swarms made of different creatures can occupy the same space, but they will attack and damage each other, not only the non swarm creatures.

The rules are sufficiently vague that a GM can interpret them differently, but that don't seem to be RAI and it require some stretching to the interpreted as RAW.

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Attacks are sequential, even natural attacks.
Holding the charge don't specify that you need to keep it in a specific hand and the magus example show that you can "move" it from the hand to the weapon to another weapon.
No action is specified to move a held charge, so we can assume (yes, assume, it is not a granted thing) that moving it is a no action.

If we take that in account we can assume that each attack can deliver a charge, if you have multiple charges.

Held charges for spells with multiple touches are a gray area. The rules don't address them clearly.

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You can't make 6 touch attacks, but if you are natural atacks against the target normal AC, it work.

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Marroar Gellantara wrote:
Matthew Downie wrote:
ryric wrote:
PRD, Fly skill wrote:
A creature with a natural fly speed receives a bonus (or penalty) on Fly skill checks depending on its maneuverability: Clumsy –8, Poor –4, Average +0, Good +4, Perfect +8
Your good maneuverability from the fly spell doesn't help your checks.
Very few people think that's RAI. Why would they mention good maneuverability if it didn't do anything?
Sometimes people can't read, so they will think that even though an ability gives you something, there is some reason you don't actually get it.

Or, more probably, people know that was the text of the fly spell before Pathfinder and the advent of the fly skill and realize that it is a leftover of the 3.x version, but that it has no effect in game.

RAW and RAI is that you now use the rules of the fly skill. The fly spell don't say that you get a bonus for the maneuverability, only that you have it. And it give a bonus to your checks, but in a diffferent way.

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Cerberus Seven wrote:
Avh wrote:
Cerberus Seven wrote:
Ckorik wrote:
You can take 10 on this check - so if you don't put any points into the skill at all you have a +17 unless you are trying something really tricky or there is a hurricane.

If what he was saying about there being hostile forces nearby was true, that should definitely count as 'immediate danger/distracted'. Ergo, not in combat he wouldn't be able take 10 in that particular situation. Otherwise though, yeah that'd work.

Derklord wrote:
I don't think you can ever fall using magical flight. Failing a fly check (by 5 or more) only has an effect if you use wings to fly. RAW you need to make checks for moving less then half your speed or hovering, but the result has absolutly no effect whatsoever.
If you don't fall or descend in some way, then why even require a check to hover? Pass the check = you hover; don't pass the check = you also hover? Seems like a common sense conclusion that those two checks apply equally to winged/wingless flight.
If you fail the Hover check (or the less than half your speed check), you MUST move at least half your speed.

Yeeeaaah, I don't think that's right. Let's look at the skill again:

"Fly wrote:
Without making a check, a flying creature can remain flying at the end of its turn so long as it moves a distance greater than half its speed.

So, in the scenario we're in, the alchemist or wizard or whatever elects to not move 50+% of their flight speed in a turn. That means a check is needed to remain flying. What's it called when you're in mid-air and not flying because of, among other things, a failed skill check? Yep, falling.

Then there's the obvious scenario of, "I just used a full-rounds worth of actions and can't take a move action". It's a very obvious way for someone to gain an extra move action every turn, maybe even one that doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity since it's FORCED movement due to a failed check. I can't see anyone in their right mind arguing...

It is a bit more complicated than that. There are 2 different effects:

PRD - fly skill wrote:
Without making a check, a flying creature can remain flying at the end of its turn so long as it moves a distance greater than half its speed.

and

PRD - fly skill wrote:
If you are using wings and you fail a Fly check by 5 or more, you plummet to the ground, taking the appropriate falling damage (see Environment).

So a creature not flying with wings can't remain flying at the end of his turn if he fail a check, but don't plummet to the ground.

What is left? He is forced to land but don't take falling damage and so don't drop prone.
The same would happen to someone flying with wing and falling by 1-4.

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Voadam wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
Undone wrote:

Can I just point out something.

Quote:
Maneuverability: Creatures with a fly speed receive a bonus (or penalty) on all Fly checks depending on their maneuverability:
Which is +4 for "Fly" the spell so at 5th level it is impossible to fall without a -2 or -3 dexterity modifier when added to the half caster level bonus. With a good dex you can eventually reach auto success rates.

You are missing a key word:

PRD wrote:
A creature with a natural fly speed receives a bonus (or penalty) on Fly skill checks depending on its maneuverability: Clumsy –8, Poor –4, Average +0, Good +4, Perfect +8.

Where have you found that citation?

fly skill in the prd under the special section at the bottom.

No, not there, the citation there is the one I made, with natural fly speed in it. the bonus isn't applied if you fly with a supernatural ability or a spell.

Check what you linked and you will see it.

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Undone wrote:

Can I just point out something.

Quote:
Maneuverability: Creatures with a fly speed receive a bonus (or penalty) on all Fly checks depending on their maneuverability:
Which is +4 for "Fly" the spell so at 5th level it is impossible to fall without a -2 or -3 dexterity modifier when added to the half caster level bonus. With a good dex you can eventually reach auto success rates.

You are missing a key word:

PRD wrote:
A creature with a natural fly speed receives a bonus (or penalty) on Fly skill checks depending on its maneuverability: Clumsy –8, Poor –4, Average +0, Good +4, Perfect +8.

Where have you found that citation?

Edit: I see, D20PSRD, It is one of the points where they try to gather all the rules in a location he rules and get them wrong.

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Cerberus Seven wrote:


First off, just in case you're missing something off your check: if you can use an extract of fly, you should have at least a +7 to the check from that alone (1/2 caster level [minimum 7th because alchemical] plus 4 for good maneuverability).

Good maneuverability applies only if you have a natural fly speed. It is in alternative to the spell bonus.

PRD - Fly skill wrote:
A creature with a natural fly speed receives a bonus (or penalty) on Fly skill checks depending on its maneuverability: Clumsy –8, Poor –4, Average +0, Good +4, Perfect +8.
Ckorik wrote:


Right - +7 fly skill

You can take 10 on this check - so if you don't put any points into the skill at all you have a +17 unless you are trying something really tricky or there is a hurricane.

You should always be able to hover - you should always be able to move at a 45 degree angle (i.e. half speed up - note the 45 degree angle is a full speed move but you only move 1/2 the distance - it's 1/2 forward and 1/2 up)

If you put a *single* point into the fly skill you get a +4 (3 for class skill) to the check.

So lets assume you really dumped dex and it's a 4. That's a -3 on the check - so a 15 with take 10. That still lets you hover and move 1/2 speed without making a fly check. Is your Dex a 1?

Not when he is trying to flee the BEEG in the middle of combat.

PRD wrote:
Taking 10: When your character is not in immediate danger or distracted, you may choose to take 10.

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Swiss Mercenary wrote:

Well I was thinking one of the following for my DT:

Jeweller

Be wary of that, until someone discover where we can find a good quantity of RAW decorative gems, making the recipes needed to train the new levels is a pita.

So far 1 out of 10 of the gems I have found is a decorative gems, the others are semi precious ones.

Almost all the low level jeweler recipes require decorative gems, so getting the achievements to increase the skill is time consuming.
I have more than 26,000 xp ready to be spent for my dedicated jeweler but I am missing the achievement for the next level of the skill.

Member of the 7th veil

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Baki Firefist wrote:
Hi diego i don't know if you see but i'm actualy tring tu run a company of iternational- italian focused players (as i am italian too) feel fre to contact me if you need.

Yes, I have seen your posts in the Italian forum, but the most recent I have seen are dated June. And I would like to stay with my current group.

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You house walls change position often?
Tongue in check replies notwithstanding, normally it don't happen.

It is a matter of the frame of reference.

Gates and walls of force are immobile in reference to the surface and area in which they have been created, if that surface or area is larger enough when compared to the wall, but they aren't immobile when compared to teh whole universe. Nothing is immobile if you use that scale.

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As the title say, I want to contact other Italian and European players.
The ideal result would be to have them join the group of which I am part, the Seventh Veil.
Alternatively, if they have already founded a group that I like I could join them, but I would greatly prefer to have them join my group.

The reasons for this are the usual:
- US players generally have a different playtime, so it is hard to collaborate with them;
- following English speaking people on Teamspeak isn't always easy.

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2bz2p wrote:

I don't know. Maybe I'm over-concerned. But, place a Portal to the demi-plane (I don't care which size) in a 5x5 hoop. Make the demi-plane connected bountiful and timeless. Way better than a Instant Fortress, and way cheaper. Sell to adventurers as a place you can have your clerics and aracane casters jump into while fighters keep guard, heal up, relearn spells, and jump out with no time passing. Step in one side of the hoop lame and depleted, step out other side full HP and fully recovered, in one round of "real" time. Repeat as often as desired. Hoop too fragile? Okay a large chest then. Or maybe a Wardrobe - but that could draw attention of Lions and Witches.

Timeless don't do what you think.

PRD wrote:
Timeless: On planes with this trait, time still passes, but the effects of time are diminished. How the timeless trait affects certain activities or conditions such as hunger, thirst, aging, the effects of poison, and healing varies from plane to plane. The danger of a timeless plane is that once an individual leaves such a plane for one where time flows normally, conditions such as hunger and aging occur retroactively. If a plane is timeless with respect to magic, any spell cast with a noninstantaneous duration is permanent until dispelled.
You have 4 options for the time feature:
PRD wrote:
"Time: By default, time passes at the normal rate in your demiplane. By selecting this feature, you may make your plane have the erratic time, flowing time (half or double normal time), or timeless trait (see Time).
PRD wrote:


Erratic Time: Some planes have time that slows down and speeds up, so an individual may lose or gain time as he moves between such planes and any others. To the denizens of such a plane, time flows naturally and the shift is unnoticed. The following is provided as an example.
d% Time on Material Plane Time on Erratic Time Plane
01–10 1 day 1 round
11–40 1 day 1 hour
41–60 1 day 1 day
61–90 1 hour 1 day
91–100 1 round 1 day

Roll a die, see how much time has passed outside your universe.

PRD wrote:


Flowing Time: On some planes, the flow of time is consistently faster or slower. One may travel to another plane, spend a year there, and then return to the Material Plane to find that only 6 seconds have elapsed. Everything on the plane returned to is only a few seconds older. But for that traveler and the items, spells, and effects working on him, that year away was entirely real. When designating how time works on planes with flowing time, put the Material Plane's flow of time first, followed by the flow in the other plane.

That is what you intended, not timeless, but it is further limited by the spell: " flowing time (half or double normal time)".

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Lord Vukodlak is right. The swarm subtype say:

PRD wrote:


Swarm Attack: Creatures with the swarm subtype don't make standard melee attacks. Instead, they deal automatic damage to any creature whose space they occupy at the end of their move, with no attack roll needed. Swarm attacks are not subject to a miss chance for concealment or cover. A swarm's statistics block has “swarm” in the Melee entry, with no attack bonus given. The amount of damage a swarm deals is based on its Hit Dice, as shown below.

and Sanctuary say:

PRD wrote:
Any opponent attempting to directly attack the warded creature, even with a targeted spell, must attempt a Will save.

Sanctuary require a will save, but it is not a mind affecting spell, so that too isn't a problem and it affect an unlimited number of creatures, so it work.

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Uwotm8 wrote:
The prepared/spontaneous paradigm is centered on how you treat the ability of what to cast when you refresh your daily allotment and not how you actually go about casting. For prepared casters, you have to select which spells you want to cast. Spontaneous casters can cast all their spells. The arcanist is a prepared caster.

He can cast all his know spell any number of times (up to his daily limit) so it is a spontaneous caster. He don't select beforehand what spell he has prepared, he select what spell he know.

As you see the same argument could work in both direction. I consider them spontaneous casters.

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So they are meant to be substituted by other feats?
The exploit at least is good enough that I would want to upgrade it.

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Who teach the 2+ rank of the basic longbow strike and exploit?

Same thing for all the other basic attacks.

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RAW, they stack.
But you should consider that not all the skills have masterwork tools and that some masterwork tool work only for some aspect of the skill.

Same thing for the magical version. Often the magic item boost only a single aspect of the skill.

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Until you mix the two in the same corp and one side start shouting that the other isn't doing his job and instead is stealing from him :(

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