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Diego Rossi's page

Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 8,911 posts (9,198 including aliases). 1 review. 1 list. No wishlists. 4 aliases.


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Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If you are in a area of darkness and your enemy can't see you he need to pinpoint you.

Check DC:
Hear the sound of battle –10 (your character isn't drawing his bow for a surprise attack, he is making a full attack, or even worse, casting the light spell)
Distance to the source, object, or creature +1/10 feet
Pinpoint +20

As you want to fire from 180', the Total DC to pinpoint the right square is 28.

Not impossible. Easy for plenty of creatures.

The relevant part of the rules:

PRD wrote:

Darkness

Darkvision allows many characters and monsters to see perfectly well without any light at all, but characters with normal or low-light vision can be rendered completely blind by putting out the lights. Torches or lanterns can be blown out by sudden gusts of subterranean wind, magical light sources can be dispelled or countered, or magical traps might create fields of impenetrable darkness.

In many cases, some characters or monsters might be able to see while others are blinded. For purposes of the following points, a blinded creature is one who simply can't see through the surrounding darkness.

Creatures blinded by darkness lose the ability to deal extra damage due to precision (for example, via sneak attack or a duelist's precise strike ability).

Blind creatures must make a DC 10 Acrobatics skill check to move faster than half speed. Creatures that fail this check fall prone. Blinded creatures can't run or charge.

All opponents have total concealment from a blinded creature, so the blinded creature has a 50% miss chance in combat. A blinded creature must first pinpoint the location of an opponent in order to attack the right square; if the blinded creature launches an attack without pinpointing its foe, it attacks a random square within its reach. For ranged attacks or spells against a foe whose location is not pinpointed, roll to determine which adjacent square the blinded creature is facing; its attack is directed at the closest target that lies in that direction.

A blinded creature loses its Dexterity modifier to AC (if positive) and takes a –2 penalty to AC.

A blinded creature takes a –4 penalty on Perception checks and most Strength- and Dexterity-based skill checks, including any with an armor check penalty. A creature blinded by darkness automatically fails any skill check relying on vision.

Creatures blinded by darkness cannot use gaze attacks and are immune to gaze attacks.

A creature blinded by darkness can make a Perception check as a free action each round in order to locate foes (DC equal to opponents' Stealth checks). A successful check lets a blinded character hear an unseen creature “over there somewhere.” It's almost impossible to pinpoint the location of an unseen creature. A Perception check that beats the DC by 20 reveals the unseen creature's square (but the unseen creature still has total concealment from the blinded creature).

A blinded creature can grope about to find unseen creatures. A character can make a touch attack with his hands or a weapon into two adjacent squares using a standard action. If an unseen target is in the designated square, there is a 50% miss chance on the touch attack. If successful, the groping character deals no damage but has pinpointed the unseen creature's current location. If the unseen creature moves, its location is once again unknown.

If a blinded creature is struck by an unseen foe, the blinded character pinpoints the location of the creature that struck him (until the unseen creature moves, of course). The only exception is if the unseen creature has a reach greater than 5 feet (in which case the blinded character knows the location of the unseen opponent, but has not pinpointed him) or uses a ranged attack (in which case the blinded character knows the general direction of the foe, but not his location).

A creature with the scent ability automatically pinpoints unseen creatures within 5 feet of its location.

Invisibility has nothing to do with it, as you can see.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Crimeo wrote:
Quote:
The invisibility rules do not apply to the general stealth rules. You do not gain 'invisibility' or any of the associated rules to that spell when in total concealment or otherwise 'not visible'. The spell is entirely distinct and has separate rules, regardless of the commoniusage of the term 'invisible'. Do not conflate the two.

I realize this is the case for word for word rules.

I'm saying however that it is silly, illogical, contradictory for a DM to rule this way anyway. The reason is that by making this distinction you are logically necessitating that it is harder to sense an invisible creature than a not-visible creature.

But it is exactly how it work. You are changing the rules to suit you. Fine in a home game, not in the rule forum.

Hiding behind a wall? No bonus even if there is a object that totally block LOS.

Invisible behind a wall? +20 to your stealth check.

So yes, the rules make harder to notice you if invisible even by sound.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Well, if in your world FoM allow you to move through the area of a Magic circle against evil, it allow you to teleport when under the effect of dimensional anchor. Teleportation is a form of movement, so if you have FoM it can't be stopped.

I think that Magic circle against evil is a barrier and FoM don't allow you to bypass barriers.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Chuss'tith wrote:

Cevah, where in SRD/PRD do you see that falling doesn't provoke? I see that dropping to the floor (presumably in your square) doesn't provoke, but moving out of a threatened square/cube should.

I think there may be good reasons why it shouldn't provoke, but I don't see them in the RAW.

I agree with DM_Blake that being released and falling would not allow the acrobatics check of a deliberate jump, per RAW. I could see that being debatable in real life e.g. this, but not in the rules forum.

But to DM_Blake's last post, I don't agree that a successful pull leaves a tongue on the opponent after moving them. A successful grab does, but in that case you are already moved to where you can reach the creature itself and attacking the tongue is of no consequence. Like the reach weapon, the tongue snaps back to the creature's space after performing the pull maneuver. If it had a better hold, you would have been grabbed.

PRD wrote:


1 Regardless of the action, if you move out of a threatened square, you usually provoke an attack of opportunity. This column indicates whether the action itself, not moving, provokes an attack of opportunity.

You move =/= you are moved

So it can read both ways with ease.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
DM_Blake wrote:

Geckos are a different issue.

Remember, the Climb skill is an everyman skill, not an everygecko skill. The DCs are set based on human expectactions. What a gecko can cling to and what a human can cling to are different.

So to determine the DC of a climbing surface, the (presumably-human) GM evaluates a surface's climbability and sets a DC based on how hard it would be for a human. Everything else must face the SAME DC. So if a human would find it difficult or impossible to cling to a ceiling because there are no handholds for his fingers and toes, then the GM should call that surface "perfectly smooth". If you look at the table in the Climb skill, the very next one up the table is a Ceiling with handholds at DC 30. Next down the list is Perfectly Smooth which therefore must include a ceiling with no handholds. As I said before, not smooth glass, just any ceiling (or wall) with NOTHING to hold onto (by human standards).

Once the GM has set this difficulty, then anything, human or otherwise, might try to use its Climb skill on the surface unless it is Perfectly Smooth. To use the Climb skill with that, you need magic (Spider Climb for example) or something equivalent.

Luckily, geckos have that as a natural ability. It's in their description. Unluckily, a chameleon does not. So unless you cast Spider Climb on your chameleon, it MUST have handholds to cling to. If it does not, then the surface is "perfectly smooth" and cannot be climbed by the chameleon.

As you already said, RL geckos use suction cups (lamellae actually, but the principle is the same).

Chameleons use claws, so I would allow them to treat a plaster ceiling as rough as it is soft enough that they can dig their claws in the plaster. On the other hand, I would check their wight, as most plaster ceiling can't hold much. If you want to affix something to the ceiling with any weight you should attack it to the underlying support beams. In old stile buildings there is a good chance of exposed support timbers that it will able to use to climb (having lived in a XV century house and working in a XIV century building I know them a bit).

Size matters. What can be a rough surface for a medium sized creature can be smooth for a large one, and vice versa (support beams every 2 meters can be too far for a human, convenient for a large creature), but those are GM calls.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Chuss'tith wrote:

Regarding the comment about getting an AoO against pull, I would say no - as Diego mentioned you need a special ability to target reach weapons and limbs. If grab after a successful tongue attack does not provoke, there is no reason why pull should. Plus pull doesn't maintain a hold after it is completed (like a grab does) so it is all over very quickly.

Unrelated to the rules discussion, have you ever seen slow motion footage of a chameleon or frog catching bugs with its tongue? Granted it isn't the same mechanically (no grapple, creature pulled all the way into mouth in one action) but you rarely see the bug getting enough time to react. If they get away at all, it is usually due to poor aim on the original tongue attack (complete miss or glancing blow).

If the sticky tongue hits a creature, it is either wrapped up and brought towards the mouth, or at least it gets pulled a little closer before the tongue pulls free. It would need greater size or a good CMD to resist both the grab and the pull after being hit by the tongue.

RAW is clear.

Pull is a combat maneuver, there is no text saying that it don't
provoke, all combat maneuver without that text provoke, so pull provoke.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
DM_Blake wrote:

I'm not even sure you need reach. The dang thing's tongue is in your space for cryin' out loud, as well as in one adjacent space too. Just hit the tongue, no reach needed.

I'm not sure there are rules for this though.

But I dread telling a player they can't hit a long slimy tongue that latched onto their body and is dragging them toward a mouth full of teeth. What do I say, "Sorry, your sword is too short to reach the tongue that is attached to you, you have to wait until you can hit the mouth full of teeth."?

That'll go over swell...

I know, but,this was pointed out to me after one of my first posts in this forum:

PRD wrote:

Strike Back (Combat)

You can strike at foes that attack you using their superior reach, by targeting their limbs or weapons as they come at you.

Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +11.

Benefit: You can ready an action to make a melee attack against any foe that attacks you in melee, even if the foe is outside of your reach.

and this:

PRD wrote:


Threatened Squares: You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you're unarmed, you don't normally threaten any squares and thus can't make attacks of opportunity.

Reach Weapons: Most creatures of Medium or smaller size have a reach of only 5 feet. This means that they can make melee attacks only against creatures up to 5 feet (1 square) away. However, Small and Medium creatures wielding reach weapons threaten more squares than a typical creature. In addition, most creatures larger than Medium have a natural reach of 10 feet or more.

RAW you can't attack a limb or a weapon unless there is a specific rule allowing that.

The guy with a longspear pocking you through a arrowslit and a 5' tick wall?
He and is spear are invulnerable to your non reach weapon, even if the spear is attacking you.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The loss of the grab ability generate another problem:

PRD wrote:


Performing a Combat Maneuver: When performing a combat maneuver, you must use an action appropriate to the maneuver you are attempting to perform. While many combat maneuvers can be performed as part of an attack action, full-attack action, or attack of opportunity (in place of a melee attack), others require a specific action. Unless otherwise noted, performing a combat maneuver provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of the maneuver. If you are hit by the target, you take the damage normally and apply that amount as a penalty to the attack roll to perform the maneuver. If your target is immobilized, unconscious, or otherwise incapacitated, your maneuver automatically succeeds (treat as if you rolled a natural 20 on the attack roll). If your target is stunned, you receive a +4 bonus on your attack roll to perform a combat maneuver against it.

The Pull ability don't say that it don't provoke and it is a combat maneuver. With the grab ability you first grabbed the target, and that made grappled and unable to make AoO, now you use directly the pull maneuver, and it provoke. (note that you need to have reach to react)

I will rule that the pull ability don't provoke, but that is a houserule.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
PRD wrote:


Giant Chameleon Companions

Starting Statistics: Size Medium; Speed 30 ft., climb 30 ft.; Attack bite (1d6); Ability Scores Str 12, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 2, Wis 11, Cha 7; Special Qualities +10 Stealth when still, low-light vision.

4th-Level Advancement: Size Large; Speed 40 ft., climb 40 ft.; AC +2 natural armor; Attack bite (1d8); Ability Scores Str +4, Dex –2, Con +2; Special Attacks pull (tongue, 5 ft.), tongue.

PRD wrote:


Pull (Ex) A creature with this ability can choose to make a free combat maneuver check with a successful attack. If successful, this check pulls a creature closer. The distance pulled is set by this ability. The type of attack that causes the pull and the distance pulled are included in the creature's description. This ability only works on creatures of a size equal to or smaller than the pulling creature. Creatures pulled in this way do not provoke attacks of opportunity and stop if the pull would move them into a solid object or creature.

The Chameleon companion tongue has pull, not grapple. So it move the target only 5'.

Furthermore, to rise the target into the air I would require the chameleon to be able to lift it, i.e. the carrying capacity of the chameleon would matter.

PRD wrote:


Lifting and Dragging: A character can lift as much as his maximum load over his head. A character's maximum load is the highest amount of weight listed for a character's Strength in the heavy load column of Table: Carrying Capacity.

With a large chameleon being limited to medium creatures and it being a quadruped probably it will never be a problem, but the limit still exist.

AFAIK the Giant Chameleon Companions never get the grab ability of the standard monster.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
PRD wrote:
A completely submerged creature has total cover against opponents on land unless those opponents have freedom of movement effects. Magical effects are unaffected except for those that require attack rolls (which are treated like any other effects) and fire effects.

Complete cover vs. effects that require an attack roll. So you can't attack the fish using mage hand.

On the other hand you can use it to put the line exactly where you want it. A perfect casting any time. So Milo idea of giving a +2 to Profession (Fisherman) checks (and I will add survival checks to gather food) seem appropriate.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Forseti wrote:
There's nothing there at all to distinguish moving by means of Fly from moving by means of walking. You still follow the general rules when you use Fly. You move from one square to another. You don't use a move action to mentally move your body with Fly. If that's what you're supposed to be doing, the spell would've said so.

"Nothing" like it being a spell and not a natural fly speed?

"Nothing" like your maneuverability class not applying as it is magical flight?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Forseti wrote:

I know another one. Moving someone to tears isn't a necessarily a physical action.

Obviously I meant moving in its non-transative form.

But we don't know if the fly spell move you in a transative or a non-transative form.

It is circular logic, you think it move you in a non-transative form so you limit it, I think it move you in a transative form so I don't limit it.
Both position are "because it is so" based on the informations that the spell give us. Opinions.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Insain Dragoon wrote:

The default for an undefined thing is both.

For example, walking, running, swimming, and burrowing. In fact just about everything in the game doesn't have a label stating

"This is both a mental and a Physical action"

It's not listed at all.

The game's internal logic seems to point to the default for every action to be both mental and physical, with exceptions that are specifically stated.

So the method of flying via the fly spell is both mental and physical since it isn't stated that it's purely mental. Since it's a physical action it's impossible to do because you're paralyzed.

You need a big leap of logic to get to that assumption.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Forseti wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:

There isn't any information about it being a physical or mental action in the text of the spell, so I equally astonishing that you are stating that it is surely a physical action.

From what I recall it was a mental action in all the previous version of the game. Now it is an undefined action.
It had the same weight limitation even in the previous version of the game, when it was surely a mental action, so the basis of your argument is very weak.

The text of the Pathfinder Fly spell is the same as the 3.5 Fly spell, except for the fly skill check bonus based on caster level. I'm pretty sure that was added to account for the lack of a bonus based on maneuverability.

It's a physical action by merit of moving in general being a physical action, and the movement allowed by the Fly spell being restricted by physical limitations almost exactly as walking just confirms that.

Not that any of this matters, because whether it is a mental or a physical action, you won't be flying with an effective strength of 0. Because the spells says so.

Levitating - moving but not a physical action

Falling - moving but not a physical action
Being transported by someone - moving but not a physical action

Walking is a physical action, flapping your wings is a physical action, so no, "moving in general" isn't a physical action.

And the 0 strength argument work only if you are carrying something beside your armor. The classic medieval witches flew in the nude and your clothes count as +0 armor if you aren't wearing any.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Untrained, unless there is a entry in the books for trained rats.

And please, no double posts. Delete the other thread.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Insain Dragoon wrote:

Undefined in Pathfinder either means the default (both) like with walking or neither.

Both and Neither mean you can't fly while Paralyzed.

And the default for magical flying is?

You have said nothing supporting your opinion on what is the default, so explain on what you base it.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Magus Arcana, Animate Weapon

Third party product, I doubt anyone can give you the RAI of that arcana here.

The RAW of the ability isn't clear for your 1st question.

For the 2nd, yes, the magus will get 3 attacks, more with a BAB of 6+ and he will not suffer any additional penalty beside the -2 for spell combat (to use spell strike + normal attack(s) you need to use spell combat).

Liberty's Edge

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Forseti wrote:

Why would a mental action have to take your encumbrance into account? If the magic is strong enough to let you fly at full strength, why would it suddenly fail if your body becomes less strong? I can see only one explanation: you need to use that body to reap the benefits of the spell.

I myself find it wholly absurd and quite astonishing how people can take the notion that flying by means of the Fly spell is a mental activity from the text of that spell. There's not the slightest hint of that in there. Nothing at all.

There isn't any information about it being a physical or mental action in the text of the spell, so I equally astonishing that you are stating that it is surely a physical action.

From what I recall it was a mental action in all the previous version of the game. Now it is an undefined action.
It had the same weight limitation even in the previous version of the game, when it was surely a mental action, so the basis of your argument is very weak.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Gaberlunzie wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
Gaberlunzie wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:

The crux of the matter is "what is a mental action".

We have another thread that ask "what is a physical action", BTW.

I think the only reply is: ask your GM.

That's part of the crux. The other part is "does the "you may take mental actions" override the "you are frozen in place and unable to move".
I have a siled Dimension door memorized. Being "frozen in place and unable to move" stop me from casting it and teleporting away?

That's a much more gray area, and I can see arguments either way. However, for me that discussion is different in that the question is "is casting Dimension Door moving?", and that answer can very well be different from "is taking a "move" move action moving?".

The reason I think they are different is because paralyzation states that you are unable to move _or act_, and then says you may take purely mental _actions_. This seems to me to make an exception to the "act" part, and not inherently to the move part. Consider if it was another topic: "You can't have ice cream or pie. Well, you can have pie if there's no chocolate in it." - this wouldn't imply they you can have ice cream, even if there's no chocolate in it.

Let's look levitate

PRD wrote:
Levitate allows you to move yourself, another creature, or an object up and down as you wish. A creature must be willing to be levitated, and an object must be unattended or possessed by a willing creature. You can mentally direct the recipient to move up or down as much as 20 feet each round; doing so is a move action. You cannot move the recipient horizontally, but the recipient could clamber along the face of a cliff, for example, or push against a ceiling to move laterally (generally at half its base land speed).

If you are paralyzed, you can move with lecitate?

If someone has cast levitate on you, he can move you?

and

If you are paralyzed someone can pick you up and transport you?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
alexd1976 wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
Forseti wrote:

You're looking at the special ability "Paralysis" in the glossary.

The "A paralyzed character has effective Dexterity and Strength scores of 0 and..." phrase in under the "Paralyzed" condition in the glossary.

Not very well organized, these rules.

Then problem solved, the creature is unconscious and can't control anything at all :P

Now we can bicker on what is a "effective score".

Incorrect.

"A paralyzed character has effective Dexterity and Strength scores of 0 and is helpless, but can take purely mental actions."

The assertion of the original poster is that the person affected by paralysis is conscious (they can take purely mental actions)-and that this is sufficient to control the Fly spell.

If you want to argue whether or not this situation could happen, go here

There is this little problem:

PRD wrote:
A character with a Strength score of 0 is too weak to move in any way and is unconscious.

Sp, a "effective score" of 0 is the same of a score of 0?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Forseti wrote:

You're looking at the special ability "Paralysis" in the glossary.

The "A paralyzed character has effective Dexterity and Strength scores of 0 and..." phrase in under the "Paralyzed" condition in the glossary.

Not very well organized, these rules.

Then problem solved, the creature is unconscious and can't control anything at all :P

Now we can bicker on what is a "effective score".

I am curious to see how "Not even friends can move his limbs." combine with "has [an] effective ... Strength scores of 0".

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Wait a second, I have seen several times the statement "when paralyzed your strength drop to 0".
Someone can cite a rule saying that?

PRD wrote:

Paralysis

Some monsters and spells have the supernatural or spell-like ability to paralyze their victims, immobilizing them through magical means. Paralysis from poison is discussed in the Afflictions section.

A paralyzed character cannot move, speak, or take any physical action. He is rooted to the spot, frozen and helpless. Not even friends can move his limbs. He may take purely mental actions, such as casting a spell with no components.

A winged creature flying in the air at the time that it becomes paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A swimmer can't swim and may drown.

The description of the paralyzed condition say that you can't move, but it don't say anywhere that your strength drop to 0.

What it actually say it very different: "Not even friends can move his limbs." If the strength of the paralyzed creature was 0 his limbs would be like overcooked spaghetti, wile the rules say that is impossible to move them. That speak of locked muscle exercising all the creature strength to keep him frozen, not of not having any strength at all.

Having 0 strength has a specific effect in the rules:

PRD wrote:
A character with a Strength score of 0 is too weak to move in any way and is unconscious.

and paralysis has't that effect.

Liberty's Edge

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Gaberlunzie wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:

The crux of the matter is "what is a mental action".

We have another thread that ask "what is a physical action", BTW.

I think the only reply is: ask your GM.

That's part of the crux. The other part is "does the "you may take mental actions" override the "you are frozen in place and unable to move".

I have a siled Dimension door memorized. Being "frozen in place and unable to move" stop me from casting it and teleporting away?

Liberty's Edge

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Malag wrote:
alexd1976 wrote:
Malag wrote:

@alex1976

This is from Dexterity Ability Score description:

"A character with a Dexterity score of 0 is incapable of moving and is effectively immobile (but not unconscious)."

You cannot perform any Dexterity check. You do not have a penalty, you simply cannot perform such a check. Fly skill, is a Dexterity based skill check in such case and you cannot perform it. Fly spell says nothing about giving a free floating service in the air so whatever happens is GM's call. This pure RAW reading unless I missed something. RAI might be another story.

Fair enough. So hovering is out then.

They could still keep moving... unless controlling your spell requires physical components.

It specifies in the spell description S,V,F components, so I am assuming it does. How else can we identify term "purely mental actions"?

The spell is already cast, so why the casting components matter?

What if the flying character is a witch with the flight hex? SU ability, totally mental.

Liberty's Edge

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The crux of the matter is "what is a mental action".
We have another thread that ask "what is a physical action", BTW.

I think the only reply is: ask your GM.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Malag wrote:

@alex1976

This is from Dexterity Ability Score description:

"A character with a Dexterity score of 0 is incapable of moving and is effectively immobile (but not unconscious)."

You cannot perform any Dexterity check. You do not have a penalty, you simply cannot perform such a check. Fly skill, is a Dexterity based skill check in such case and you cannot perform it. Fly spell says nothing about giving a free floating service in the air so whatever happens is GM's call. This pure RAW reading unless I missed something. RAI might be another story.

You can make a reflex save (with a hefty penalty).

I don't see anything saying that you can't do a ride check to stay in the saddle. In RL unconscious people has stayed in the saddle, even while the horse was moving.

- * -

What is the penalty for falling the hovering check?
You can't make the hovering maneuver so you have to move at least half of your movement speed.

PRD wrote:


Without making a check, a flying creature can remain flying at the end of its turn so long as it moves a distance greater than half its speed.

What if you don't do that?

PRD wrote:
If you are using wings and you fail a Fly check by 5 or more, you plummet to the ground, taking the appropriate falling damage.

it seem it is limited to a winged creature.

PRD Paralysis wrote:


A winged creature flying in the air at the time that it becomes paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls.

Hmm, it seem only a winged creature fall automatically.

So we have:
Rule 1: to fly you need to make a check or move at least at half of your fly speed
Rule 2: if you are using wings and you fail a Fly check by 5 or more, you plummet to the ground
non-rule 3: nothing about you being unable to fly if you don't use wings.

So:
effect 1: no check required if you fly at last at half your fly speed
effect 2: you don't plummet if you fail
effect 3: apparently SU and SP form of flight are considered a mental effort, not a physical one.

RAI 1: you use dexterity with the fly skill, regardless of how you fly EX, SU, SP, so we can assume you use some body motion for fine control.

With all the above in mind, my interpretation.

If you use the fly spell or some form of SU flying ability you can fly, with all the penalties for having dex 0. Normally you would move in a straight line at your base speed, you can make the appropriate checks to try different maneuvers.

You are still helpless if someone can attack you while flying as you don't have enough control to really avoid the attack (to make a paragon, a bound creature can move enough to try an escape check, but it is still helpless).

Liberty's Edge

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FAQ wrote:


Magus, Spell Combat: Does spell combat count as making a full attack action for the purpose of haste and other effects?

Yes.

Edit 9/9/13: This is a revised ruling about how haste interacts with effects that are essentially a full attack, even though the creature isn't specifically using the full attack action (as required by haste). The earlier ruling did not allow the extra attack from haste when using spell combat.

This FAQ say it count, as it is an "other effect".

PRD wrote:


Attack Roll

An attack roll represents your attempt to strike your opponent on your turn in a round. When you make an attack roll, you roll a d20 and add your attack bonus. (Other modifiers may also apply to this roll.) If your result equals or beats the target's Armor Class, you hit and deal damage.

Automatic Misses and Hits: A natural 1 (the d20 comes up 1) on an attack roll is always a miss. A natural 20 (the d20 comes up 20) is always a hit. A natural 20 is also a threat—a possible critical hit (see the attack action).

And this say that a hit require an attack roll.

So, magic missile don't count for this ability.
On the other hand, scorching ray will.

So, open with scorching ray while you are outside the enemy threatened area, them make a 5' step and make your weapon attack.
There are good chances you will start it with a +3 to damage as scorching ray target touch AC.

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CWheezy wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:

Fabricate don't glue together existing different items. There is no skill check for that.

Holy moly, you can use fabricate without a skill check
PRD wrote:
You convert material of one sort into a product that is of the same material.

Bigger diamond made gluing together smaller diamonds isn't a product.

You can use make whole on a shattered diamond to repair it if you have all the pieces, but you can't transform several smaller diamonds into a larger one.

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StDrake wrote:

Did only Ravendork and me so far notice that most of a diamonds worth comes from cutting it to shape actually? AND the diamond produced might not be enough quality to allow it to get cut into something sensible anyway.

Even more than that, it come from advertising.

DeBeers has created and sustained the diamond fad and has maintained production stable to the appropriate level to keep price and profit up.

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BlingerBunny wrote:

I know I should probably ask my GM this, but can you use Fabricate to turn coal into diamonds?

Scientifically speaking, a lump of coal and a diamond are made of the same element, Carbon, but the diamond has been exposed to intense heat and pressure over a period of time.

I'm asking this because diamonds are, according to pathfinder, much more valuable than coal, and take up less volume as well. Given the proper craft check, would the fabricate spell even allow for this level of broken utility?

Fabricate wrote:
You must make an appropriate Craft check to fabricate articles requiring a high degree of craftsmanship.

So what is the craftmanship of artificial diamonds?

As a GM I would put it around 200. It can be done with the appropriate tools in the RL, so in PF you can do it with an appropriate craft check.

Probably "profession engineer" if we want to use one of the already existing skills. Or Craft alchemy.

Note that you need perfectly pure carbon to make a decent diamond. No coal.
Coal contain a large quantity of impurities, you will don't get anything worthwhile starting with coal.

BlingerBunny wrote:
Well I could always make a bunch of small diamonds, then use fabricate to make a single large diamond.

Fabricate don't glue together existing different items. There is no skill check for that.

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Pink Dragon wrote:

The first attack of a flurry of blows suffers a penalty in comparison to a monk's standard attack only for monk levels 1-4. From levels 5-8, the first attack of a flurry of blows has no penalty in comparison to a monk's standard attack. After 8th level, the first attack of a flurry of blows has a bonus in comparison to a monk's standard attack.

It would seem odd that a monk could start a flurry, then abort to a standard attack after the first hit and then move at levels 1-4 but not at levels above 8. And how would the ruling go for levels 5-8?

Despite the apparent oddness of the "full attack decision to change and move after the first attack" rule when considering manyshot, flurry and TWF, the cleanest way is to simply say that it works the same for manyshot, flurry and TWF.

Flurry of blow for a standard monk always give a benefit: your BAB become the same of your level instead of 3/4. So, as from Fromper interpretation, you can't interrupt the attack as you have already received a benefit from your decision.

Cerwin wrote:
Pink Dragon wrote:

...After 8th level, the first attack of a flurry of blows has a bonus in comparison to a monk's standard attack...

i haven't play a monk past lvl 1 so I didn't know that after level 8 flurry got bonuses. But my answer remains the same if you took a penalty then you can call it off and move. If you get a bonus then you are locking into a full round attack. So at my table the monk would have the right to call off the full round attack until level 8.

He get a benefit from level 1.

A +1 to hit. The penalty of -2 is from TWF.

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BigNorseWolf wrote:

Claud,

many shot: When making a full-attack action with a bow, your first attack fires two arrows

By using Many shot you have locked yourself in to a full attack. (which is not nearly as bad for an archer as it is for melee). Your first attack got two arrows. You've receieved a benefit you're locked in.

I've also seen this come up for magus using spell combat.

The way I run the rest of them is that since the only thing you took was a penalty for flurry or two weapon fighting and didn't gain any benefits you should be able to change your mind.

This is more of a parity thing than raw though

Manyshot was clear from the start and we have a FAQ for it, but I don't see how it is so clear for spell combat.

As long as you make only 1 attack and don't cast the spell I think that you can stop your attack and move.
Remember, casting the spell isn't mandatory.

This FAQ:

FAQ wrote:


Magus, Spell Combat: Does spell combat count as making a full attack action for the purpose of haste and other effects?

Yes.

Edit 9/9/13: This is a revised ruling about how haste interacts with effects that are essentially a full attack, even though the creature isn't specifically using the full attack action (as required by haste). The earlier ruling did not allow the extra attack from haste when using spell combat.

count as a full attack for "other effects".

You have a source that say the opposite?

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Claxon wrote:

Yeah, manyshot is definitely 1 attack. It's basically knocking two arrows and firing them at the same time, so only 1 attack roll.

But it is clearly abusive for a player to use manyshot, then cancel the full attack repeatedly. As I stated, you should simply ask the player not to do that and if they can't abide it then ask them to leave.

faq wrote:

Manyshot: Can I fire two arrows with my shot, then cancel the full attack and take a move?

No. Though the rules for "Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack (Core Rulebook 187) give you the option to move after your first attack instead of making your remaining attacks, Manyshot locks you into using a full attack action as soon as you use it to shoot two arrows.
posted March 2013 | back to top

Edit:

Already cited. See what happen when you comment before reading all the posts.

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Snowblind, you are supporting my position.

PRD wrote:


This spell functions like lesser planar binding, except that you may call a single creature of 12 HD or less, or up to three creatures of the same kind whose Hit Dice total no more than 12.

If you treat the two conditions as alternative to each other you have two choices:

"you may call a single creature of 12 HD or less"
or you can call something that isn't a single creature and fulfill the second condition
"up to three creatures of the same kind whose Hit Dice total no more than 12"

But if you call a single creature you fall under the first condition.
If you can call a single creature under the second set of condition the first phrase has no uses and no reason to be.

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alexd1976 wrote:


This has already been FAQed in the other thread you are part of.

It hasn't. I have see 3 posts with FAQ flags in that thread, and they are all about the use of the Heighten Spell metamagic feat.

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Yes.

PRD wrote:
As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty).

Obviously he don't get the extra attack from spellstrike if he don't cast a spell.

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Snowblind wrote:

I like how all of this is completely mute because the planar binding spell gives you two options

a)conjure a single creature with up to 12HD
b)conjure up to three creatures of the same kind with up to a total of 12HD
At least one of the "12HD" numbers gets changed to 14HD
There are no other constraints on what can be conjured.

Now, people here are arguing that the HD increase only applies to the second option.

Great. In fact, lets forget about the first entirely for a reason I will explain momentarily. Here is our "new" spell.

a)conjure up to three creatures of the same kind with up to a total of 14HD (side note - "same kind" means no earth elemental tacked on)

In the target line, the text becomes
Targets up to three elementals or outsiders, totaling no more than 14 HD, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart when they appear

OK...so I take the new spell's option a). I choose to conjure a Monadic Deva Angel. Great. That is a single creature. 1 creature is within the bounds of "up to three creatures". 1 is less than or equal to 3. And since there is just one creature, the conjured creatures are all obviously of the same kind. Now, the Deva is 14HD. I am allowed up to...14HD. Oh joy, I am just within the limits. The angel is a legal target. As it turns out, the first option in the spell that we forgot about isn't even necessary (but was probably put there for clarity). It is actually included in the "up to 3" option.

Are we done?

Generally, if a spell has multiple conditions you must met all of them, you don't get to chose arbitrarily to apply only those that you prefer.

The best option is to click on the FAQ I made. it i reasonably neutral and it is about the CRB, so there is a decent chance it will get a reply.

Until them, both interpretations can be valid.

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There are a few abilities that increase the HD of creature summoned with Planar Binding and Planar Ally, like Darkfire Pact and Augment Calling.

Some people feel that the added HD increase both the limit to the HD of the strongest creature summoned and the total HD, while other feel that those are different limits and only abilities that specifically say that they increase the maximum HD of the summoned creature increase that value, while abilities that increase the total number of HD summoned don't touch the HD limit of the strongest creature.

So, the question that I hope people will FAQ:

For the planar Ally and Planar Binding spells the limit of the HD of the strongest creature summoned and the total number of HD summoned are the same limit and raising one automatically raise the other or they are 2 different limits and raising one don't change the other?

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Glord Funkelhand wrote:
Does that mean a witch can draw a wand while cackling?

"Regular move" mean moving, not taking a move action. It is the Move action of the Actions In Combat table, the first you find in the "Move Action" section of the table, not the whole section.

I.e. this:Move

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kyrt-ryder wrote:

Augment Calling explicitly works on Lesser Planar Binding.

Lesser Planar Binding does not allow multiple creatures.

Reading into a mechanic to intentionally try to make it weaker is bad practice guys. [Granted I've seen an entire subset of posters on these boards who seem to REALLY get off on doing so, LazarX, Diego... etc.]

EDIT:

AlexD wrote:
The feat doesn't actually talk about increasing limits of creatures hit dice, it simply adds dice to the spell.

The spell doesn't have 'limits' it has hit dice.

lesser planar binding wrote:
Target one elemental or outsider with 6 HD or less
The higher level spells function 'as Lesser planar binding' but they ramp up the Hit Dice and allow you to divide those hit dice among multiple creatures.

As written the text don't increase the 2 HD limit of the planar ally/planar binding spell.

It can easily be RAI, but it is not RAW until errated or FAQued

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Casual Viking wrote:

"I choose to summon up to three outsiders whose HD total 14 or less. In this case, one 14 HD outsider. "

You guys are inventing a distinction that isn't there.

It is there.

Condition one: "you may call a single creature of 12 HD or less" unchanged by the abilities.
Condition two, clanged by the abilities: "you may call up to three creatures of the same kind whose Hit Dice total no more than 14".

You must respect both statements to follow the spell instructions. You don't get to respect half of the limitations of a spell and say "that is how it work".

Actually it happen with several spells, you get ways to increase the number of targets/objects/creature, etc. but your upper cap on what kind of stuff you get stay the same.

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alexd1976 wrote:

You know, I'm having difficulty finding Augment Calling for some reason.

You aren't allowed to use it to summon a single, two hit die outsider, in addition to what you normally do?

Would that option just be right out? I thought it sort of looked like you could.

*shrugs*

I still think that having something multiply a spell duration 1200 times is a mistake.

Wonder how long it will take to errata...

Planar Binding wrote:


This spell functions like lesser planar binding, except that you may call a single creature of 12 HD or less, or up to three creatures of the same kind whose Hit Dice total no more than 12.
Quote:

Benefit(s): Choose a subtype of outsider, such as angel or elemental. When using the planar ally or planar binding spells, you can call 2 additional Hit Dice of outsiders with the chosen subtype.

You change only the total, not the maximum HD, they are different limits.

Maibe the RAI is that you increase the maximum HD limit, but RAW it don't touch that.

Darkfire adept wrote:


When using the planar ally or planar binding spells, she can call 2 additional Hit Dice of outsiders with the chosen subtype, and those creatures gain temporary hit points equal to her class level, a +1 profane bonus on saving throws, and a +1 profane bonus to the caster level DC for effects that would banish, dismiss, or dispel them.

Same problem, you change the total HD, not the maximum limit on a single creatrue, you are stills truck with 12 HD outsiders.

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Christopher Hamilton wrote:
Note that it says that you can't have more than one performance <in effect>, not that you can't have more than one effect active.

You can benefit from the performance of multiple bards, so you can have multiple performance effects active on you, but you can't have more than one performance in effect, i.e. you can't keep active more than 1 performance.

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_Ozy_ wrote:
Archaeik wrote:

It's not a condition of the creature, but a restriction of the spell (which function is not modified by ASM).

Also this

Creatures you conjure usually—but not always—obey your commands.

The relevant questions are:

Does the Mount spell allow you to give commands outside of the scope of "serving as a mount"? If not, what does "serving as a mount" entail?

Keep in mind that the Mount spell expressly provides a bit, bridle, and saddle, so whatever creature you swap to should still have those (and equipped).

Given that combat trained mounts are a 'thing' in Pathfinder, and they can specifically be taught to attack enemies, I find it pretty unbelievable that people claim that 'serving as a mount' specifically precludes attacking.

There is no indication, whatsoever, that the creature summoned as a mount is restricted by the spell to only obey non-combat commands.

A pointed out several times, it is not what we said.

The creature is restricted by the spell into being a mount.

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_Ozy_ wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
Kaouse wrote:
So, I'd ask you to provide rules text for your baseless claims, only if you did that, they wouldn't be baseless anymore. Instead, just admit that the "Alter Summoned Monster" spell is broken as hell and poorly worded. I think that's something everyone can agree on.
Mount wrote:
You summon a light horse or a pony (your choice) to serve you as a mount.
That is all I need. If you are unable to differentiate a mount from a combat beast it is your problem, not mine.

For perhaps the third time, can you please point to the Pathfinder rules that prohibit a mount from participating in combat.

You response entirely begs the question, and ignores the function and capabilities of mounts not only in Pathfinder, but throughout history. The fact that the mount spell doesn't provide a combat-trained mount does not mean that the spell itself prevents the summoned mount from participating in battle, especially if said mount is substituted for a naturally combat oriented alternative.

If I used the spell to substitute a mephit in place of a badger, the mephit wouldn't be prevented from using its breath weapon just because the badger didn't have one.

Ozy, I have pointed out several times the conditions under which a mount will fight. They don't include "Go there and kill that guy while I stay here".

And you don't get to force the creature into doing things that are different from being a mount.
So your mephit will use its breath weapon it that suit it and don't detract from it being a willing mount (so it will not breath on you), but it will not use it on command.

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The bottom line is that Undine's Curse is out of line with the game mechanics and a very badly thought spell, especially as a 1st level spell.

It will kill you unless yo do <something not defined by the rules> that can be stopped with <system not adequately defined by the rules>.

That spell could work in a more free form game, not in Pathfinder. Here the GM would be constantly adjudicating how it interact with other effects.

If you are the target of sleep you stop breathing, but that is enough to wake you up? I would say yes, but someone can disagree.

Stunned? Dazed? If you are forced to think consciously to the act of berating you would be unable to do that.

Then there is the phrase:

Quote:
If it is ever unconscious (including sleeping) or unable to take physical actions, it stops breathing and begins to suffocate.

As written the target move immediately to the second part of the suffocation rules, he don't get to hold his breath.

PRD wrote:


Suffocation

A character who has no air to breathe can hold her breath for 2 rounds per point of Constitution. If a character takes a standard or full-round action, the remaining duration that the character can hold her breath is reduced by 1 round. After this period of time, the character must make a DC 10 Constitution check in order to continue holding her breath. The check must be repeated each round, with the DC increasing by +1 for each previous success.

When the character fails one of these Constitution checks, she begins to suffocate. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hit points). In the following round, she drops to –1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she suffocates.

Being killed by a fist level spell and a cantrip isn't fun.

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Kaouse wrote:
So, I'd ask you to provide rules text for your baseless claims, only if you did that, they wouldn't be baseless anymore. Instead, just admit that the "Alter Summoned Monster" spell is broken as hell and poorly worded. I think that's something everyone can agree on.
Mount wrote:
You summon a light horse or a pony (your choice) to serve you as a mount.

That is all I need. If you are unable to differentiate a mount from a combat beast it is your problem, not mine.

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Mahtobedis wrote:

We should probably get this FAQed. I know what three of the designers think from personal interaction with them, but they were not all in agreement.

I want to point out that the language of the benefit of one performance ending when another starts only shows up in lingering performance, which des mot effect masterpieces unless the masterpiece says so.

Actually it is in the bard description in the CRB, under Bardic performance:

PRD wrote:
Starting a bardic performance is a standard action, but it can be maintained each round as a free action. Changing a bardic performance from one effect to another requires the bard to stop the previous performance and start a new one as a standard action. A bardic performance cannot be disrupted, but it ends immediately if the bard is killed, paralyzed, stunned, knocked unconscious, or otherwise prevented from taking a free action to maintain it each round. A bard cannot have more than one bardic performance in effect at one time.

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Gwen Smith wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
Gwen Smith wrote:

Surely, though, once something attacks you in the surprise round, you are now aware of it. Can you cry out in pain or do you have to wait for your turn in the first round?

And could you say, "ow, I was hit by a ghoul!" Instead of just "ow, I was hit!" ?

Yes, you can cry in pain, no you can't identify what has hit you. You are seeing stars and clutching you head/hand/whatever in pain.

All of that is fluff, and your interpretation of fluff. Where is any of that in the rules?

Once I've been attacked, I'm aware of my opponent, even if the attacked missed. If my opponent was in stealth or invisible, he's not anymore (normally). So what prevents me from making a knowledge check? It is not an action.
Speaking is a free action that I can do when it's not my turn. So what prevents me, after I've been attacked, from saying something?

Part of my issue is that "flat footed" is a relational condition. I can be flat footed to one creature (say, because of invisibilty) but not flat footed to another feature at the same time. So can I speak?

Quote:

Why you guys try to metagame this way?

Because that's what the rules forum us for?
PRD wrote:
Unaware Combatants: Combatants who are unaware at the start of battle don't get to act in the surprise round.

Attacked or not, you don't get to act.

PRD wrote:


Flat-Footed: At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed.

And before your first initiative you can't act.

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Additional useful citation

PRD wrote:
Action: This line indicates the type of action performing the masterpiece requires. If it only requires a standard action to activate, being able to activate a bardic performance more quickly (at 7th level, activation is a move action, and at 13th, it becomes a swift action) applies to the masterpiece as well.

@cavall: it is not a ruling, it is a rule.

PRD wrote:
Unless otherwise stated, effects or feats that extend the duration of bardic performance (such as the Lingering Performance feat) do not apply to masterpieces.

And the bard perform ability is not music.

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