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It is "Daily Readying of Spells", "daily allotment of spells", "A wizard can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Wizard." and so on at libitum.
Always "daily", never "between periods of rest".
If you need to go to the "I am capable to regain spells every time I rest" route to confute Aelryinth you are in deep trouble.

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Aelryinth wrote:

MDT, I'm not sure at all what you're arguing about with the travel rules.

You said traveling 8 hours required additional time beyond the 8 hours of travelling, for resting, eating, etc, thus making your 8 hours of travel take 10 hours of day time. I pointed out that there is nothing in the rules to lead to that, and that thus you made it up out of whole cloth, therefore it's not a rule. Just your house rule. I pointed out that it's just as equally valid to say the rules saying 8 hours of movement for an overland day travel could include all rest time and meal time as well. It's just as valid.

Actually the rules support Aelryinth position on this:

Overland Movement

Characters covering long distances cross-country use overland movement. Overland movement is measured in miles per hour or miles per day. A day represents 8 hours of actual travel time. For rowed watercraft, a day represents 10 hours of rowing. For a sailing ship, it represents 24 hours.

Forced March: In a day of normal walking, a character walks for 8 hours. The rest of the daylight time is spent making and breaking camp, resting, and eating.

And you're still ignoring every post about how you can just sleep an hour (getting 4 hours of rest) or even 2 hours (and getting a full night's sleep) before starting your crafting on the road. Again, if you're part of a group, and they want items made on the road, then they'll take you off watch duty and let you do that. Even sleeping twice a day for 2 hours (4 hours total) and working 8 or walking 8 you still have 4 hours a day for other things, like socializing, reading a good romance scroll, what have you.

I fail to see how: wake, travel 8 hours, work 4 hours, sleep is different, from the fatigue you accrue, from wake, work 4 hours, travel 8 hours, sleep.

The ring of sustenance don't say that every hour of sleep count as 4, it say that you can sleep 2 hours instead of 8.
As it is magic the two things can be very different and one don't implies the other.

- * -

The "crafting to unwind" thing is possible. Think about people that after a day work go at home and construct a model ship or do other precision work for "fun".
But generally people that do that kind of things:
1) don't have heavy woks that require heavy physical labor (and adventuring, not light traveling, is heavy physical labor);
2) don't work at their fun project for 4 hours straight.

The Boston marathon example is a bad one. You could do a lot of thing in a emergency that isn't a good idea to do normally. In emergencies people has stayed awake for 3 days in a row, has worked for 48 hours with very little rest.
The march to of the light infantry brigade to reach Talavera is a good example of what could be accomplished in a emergency, 42 miles in 26 hours of forced march. Extremely good for a large military unit but they a good number of stragglers and some death for heatstroke and exhaustion. Not something you want to do routinely.

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On the same note, why can't I charge through a shut door if I charge it and sunder but still have notional movement left? Why would a flymesh door take AT LEAST a move action to go through as opposed to me just charging through it like the tissue paper it is?

RAW, gotta love it some days!

Maybe because fly mesh door hadn't been invented in medieval-renaissance times?

Because the typical medieval door was a 4" slab of wood, stronger than what the game define as a "Strong wooden door: hardness 5 HP 20" as 4" of wood would have 40 hp?

Because charging what you don't see is very questionable and a door block your sight?

Being unable to charge through a closed door is perfectly reasonable.

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I agree that it takes a very strict interpretation of raw to count a 4 hour window of secure uninterrupted crafting as adventure crafting unless you also have a very strict interpretation of adventuring and adventuring fatigue. Simply arguing here that making a unilateral judgement that the 4 hours counting as 2 without reading the context of why its counted as 2 is IMHO inappropriately 'lazy logic'. I personally consider a secure shelter to be exactly no less ideal a crafting environment than a lab or shrine. One can set their own limitations on what constitutes a lab or a shrine but again the difference is entirely subjective. unless we learn some new clarifying things from Ultimate Campaign here in two weeks.

My personal position as a GM:

- you can craft in a secure shelter as well as in a laboratory (with the possible exception of armor, metal weapons and a few bulky metal items) unless if there are monsters banging on the door;
- some of the crafting could be disturbing for your roommates trying to sleep, so, depending on what you are producing, it could be needed to set up 2 adjacent secure shelters or some other sleeping accommodation for the other members of the party;
- a appropriately furnished traveling wagon can work for most crafting;
- rope trick don't seem a appropriate location for most crafting. There could be exceptions, but it seem more akin to a small tent than a good laboratory;
- Mage magnificent Mansion is practically the best location possible for crafting;
- and so on.

Mostly I dislike the idea that you can craft during "morning preparation" (you are already memorizing spells, recharging staff, how many things you are doing in that 30 or 60 minutes?) and "during watches at night" (seriously? what modifier you suffer to perception for working while keeping watch? and what modifier to the crafting check?).
From my point of view crafting while adventuring, if you don't make special preparations, is better to be limited to potions, scrolls and similar items, stuff that can be made with little fuss.

YMMV as there is people that enjoy the 15 minutes adventuring day, something that I don't like.
Similarly I don' see a crafting as something you should do after a fight to the dead where you have gone down to your last hp. In my vision of adventuring life, most people, after that, would rest, unwind, brag about their combat exploits and so on, not start a project that require serious concentration.

Probably a lot of the discussion and incomprehensions here are based on unspoken assumptions. Traveling =/= exploring =/= adventuring =/= fighting but sometime the different terms are used in a interchangeable way.

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Aelryinth wrote:

He's also essentially putting in a full day of work after a full day of work, and should be rolling for fatigue and exhaustion every night he does this...sustenance doesn't take care of those rolls.

I'm sorry, where are the rules that say you are fatigued for traveling 8 hours? Or for crafting for 8 hours? Or for doing both in the same day?

Could you not travel for 8 hours to a city, then craft for 8 hours in the local shrine/laboratory and get full production and full crafting done?

Forced March: In a day of normal walking, a character walks for 8 hours. The rest of the daylight time is spent making and breaking camp, resting, and eating.

Very specific on what you can do with the hours of daylight left after traveling for 8 hours.

It go on giving rules about fatigue if you walk more than 8 hours.
It don't say anything on what will happen if you do something different from the listed activities but you aren't walking and the FAQ about staying up all night don't help so it is a gray area.
Physically it is surely possible to travel for 8 hours and then do some hours of work, especially if it is some form of light traveling (like a a wagon on a road, traveling on a wagon off road is fatiguing and sometime very slow). Doing some precision work (like enchanting) after 8 hours of travel is fairly different and generally it should be done at half speed. If you take care to organize your working environment and you have a ring of sustenance 8 hours of travel and 4 hours of crafting at full speed is acceptable. More than that and fatigue start to be an issue regardless of the effect of the ring, that don't prevent fatigue.

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Aelryinth wrote:

leo1925 wrote:

@Aelryinth

Is your problem with crafting 8 hours while adventuring or crafting at all while adventuring?

the former. Getting around the rules that have already been put in place to allow you to craft on the trail because you want to have your cake and eat it too irks me, especially when there is NO RAW to allow it, only attempting to exploit a grey area and manipulate the rules.

Heck, it's what the title of the thread is about...bending the rules as far as possible.

==Aelryinth

Actually there is a (small) RAW passage that allows it, i am away of my books right now but i seem to remember something about dedicating your time to crafting (while adventuring) and you could get the full amount of crafting for the amount of time you spend, it also says something about doing it in 4 hours blocks of time.

In addition getting around the rules and be rewarded for your knowledge about them is kinda the point of the 3E system and the systems based on it, at least in my opinion.

The caster can work for up to 8 hours each day. He cannot rush the process by working longer each day, but the days need not be consecutive, and the caster can use the rest of his time as he sees fit. If the caster is out adventuring, he can devote 4 hours each day to item creation, although he nets only 2 hours' worth of work. This time is not spent in one continuous period, but rather during lunch, morning preparation, and during watches at night. If time is dedicated to creation, it must be spent in uninterrupted 4-hour blocks. This work is generally done in a controlled environment, where distractions are at a minimum, such as a laboratory or shrine. Work that is performed in a distracting or dangerous environment nets only half the amount of progress (just as with the adventuring caster).

Actually, by very strict RAW it say the exact opposite.

It make 1 check:
You are out adventuring?
If the reply is yes there is no way to get more than 4 hours of work that count as 2 hours.
That check don't care if you are in a secure location while crafting, if you have taken special provisions to secure your crafting location or if you sleep only 2 hours at night. It simply check if you are out adventuring.
Naturally then there is the problem of defining "out adventuring".

A more reasonable interpretation is that if you can get "a controlled environment, where distractions are at a minimum, such as a laboratory or shrine" you can work for full 4 hours half shifts and get full benefits from your crafting. Note how "a controlled environment, where distractions are at a minimum, such as a laboratory or shrine" is more restrictive than "Any place suitable for preparing spells is suitable for making items".
The former should always guarantee that you get the full benefit of your hours of work, with the latter, depending on other factors, you could be limited tot eh half speed crafting.

@Vincet Takeda: actually the rules say "If time is dedicated to creation, it must be spent in uninterrupted 4-hour blocks.", so, by RAW, a 25% increase in crafting speed would net you 1.250 GP of production in 8 hours, not a reduction in working hours. But as long as you and your GM are in agreement you can do what you like.

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Maybe this thread will be of interest for you.
While the main argument is "a cohort is entitled to a share of the party loot?" almost all participants agree that, after it has been generated with his starting gear, a cohort don't get any wealth automatically.
He can devote some of if time to money producing activities and buy equipment with his profits, but that is something that should be managed between the GM and the player with the cohort.

Probably Ultimate Campaign will have some useful rule about cohorts.

@Black Raven: I think that the cohort should be generated with gear appropriate for a NPC with his level, so half of a same level PC WBL.

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@Diego Rossi

My bad, it was late at my end of the world, I had only an iPhone to check that... and the line about the CL slipped me. Nevertheless, there repair-cost of a weapon is half it's price and it takes half the time of it's creation. And since I haven't found any clue, that you actually need magical talent or feats to repair such a weapon, you could probably hand it over to a very talented blacksmith, reducing the cost to half. (Note me if I am mistaken here.) But that isn't the topic here. ^^'

Thanks to some fire incident my players have discovered that even destroyed magic items are part of the treasure.

I rule that to reconstruct a destroyed magic item you need the same feats/skill that were needed to make the item the first time, but you still halve the construction cost and the construction time, so it is worth recovering even the ashes of destroyed magic items.

The trick was deciding how they could identify what a destroyed magic item was, as you need to reconstruct exactly the same item.
I decided to use the rules about the lingering aura of magic and to give a +5 DC to the difficulty of identifying the item.

So item made with a low caster level are hard to identify as the magic linger only for 1d6 rounds but you have very good chances to have the time to identify higher caster level magic items.

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Are you sure those spiders would die from "heat" exposure and not hypothermia? Having a cold cave is rare.

Almost all underground environs are hot, the only exceptions being under a glacier, or near an underground river.

A cave has a almost constant temperature, and while the temperature in a mine go up when you go down, natural caves aren't so deep.

Those specific caves have a temperature of about 10 degree Celsius.
Our body temperature is 36 and something degree Celsius.
For them being in hour hand is like for one of us being in a very hot sauna.
They survive for some time, like we can survive in a sauna at 80-90 degree Celsius for some time, but not for an unlimited time.

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Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

Xaratherus wrote:

[edit]

Back to the original post: I thought of a major flaw with the idea. It assumes that you're carrying your crafting gear in a bag of holding. The problem? Magical items that lead to extradimensional spaces cease to function when they themselves are in an extradimensional space. You can't take anything out of a bag of holding while you're inside the Rope Trick. See here.

True, but if I'm making a magic cloak I probably don't need an anvil. Just some expensive fabric, needles and thread, and perhaps some magic inks or something.

Specific crafting gear is vague and open to interpretation. I may be able to carry it all without a bag of holding. Or just take it out before climbing. Or tie a rope to a bag and haul it up after you. Or have the muscular fighter wearing a muleback chord and that belt that also increases carrying capacity. Point being its a magic world and there are ways. Which was your point earlier i think.

Correct.

And as I hinted at earlier in the thread, the existence of the field scrivener's desk would indicate (to me) that it wouldn't be terribly difficult to create a a magical "Craftsman's Cloister" item that would, upon speaking a command word, fold out into a fully functional workshop enclosed by a Tiny Hut spell (perhaps with a Rope Trick at the top so that smoke can 'vent' without being seen).

I'm actually working on writing that item up, in fact. ;)

Base it on Hide campsite, it already include hiding the smoke and the sounds:

Hide Campsite

School illusion (glamer); Level druid 3, ranger 2
CASTING

Casting Time 10 minutes
Components V, S, M (a sprig of mistletoe, and a vial of quicksilver)
EFFECT

Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Area one 20-ft. cube
Duration 2 hours/level (D)
Saving Throw Will disbelief (if interacted with); Spell Resistance no

Paizo Peripheral

This content is from material published by Paizo Publishing, LLC, but is not part of the Pathfinder Core Rules.
DESCRIPTION

You make the area around a campsite appear to be a thicket of untouched and forbidding foliage, or some other unwelcoming feature matching the surrounding terrain. Creatures outside the area cannot sense any activity going on inside the area- they cannot smell campfires or cooking food, they cannot hear conversation, loud noises, or spells being cast, and they cannot even feel heat or a rush of wind coming from the area. Those inside the area can see out normally. Once a creature steps into the area of the spell, it can see everything in and around the area normally.

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Diego Rossi wrote:

A decent sized fire, an anvil and a lot of sweat and you can work even metal armors while travelling. My point is that it can't be done inside a wooden wagon when you need to work on stuff like that (unless the wagon is specially made to be a travelling blacksmith shop, something that, AFAIK, wasn't ever made. From what I know for the forging process travelling smiths used a fire outside the wagon, while using the wagon for storage and living accommodations).

If you had followed the link I put up earlier Diego, you would have seen a purpose built wagon used as a portable black smith shop, complete with forge, used by the Los Angelese Fire Department around circa 1900. They used it for shoeing horses, making wagon repairs, etc. I'll include another link, maybe you'll follow this one.

Blacksmith Wagon

Some extra info

Nice. But I don't see the connection between that wagon and a gipsy wagon.

So it is possible to have a purposely built travelling working wagon, that is completely open and give very little protection, to work in the wilderness. But it is completely different from the enclosed, protected space that has been proposed in most posts.

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James Jacobs wrote:

Honestly, my preference from a module writer stand is to go with the interpretation that makes for the best story.

Although I'd like to, I think that the expectation of the Pathfinder community is that GMs stick to the rules and, since module writers provide material for GMs, it is incumbent upon module writers to do the same.

IMVHO of course.

Diego: I don't know what you mean by "sustain" darkvision. I don't think dire bats have darkvision at all.

Richard

Blindsense as a bat and low-light vision as an animal, not darkvision, you are right.

On the other hand the spell give low-light, so he would be capable to navigate with ambient light, at least outside.

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bump--anyone?

since both the magus and wizards get wall of fire when they are 7th level--the wiz as a 4th level and the magus as 3rd level is being 7th level what matters?

The magus get wall of fire as a 4th level spell, at level 10. It is the summoner that get several spells as a lower level version.

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There is a tiny problem with your idea Blake:
if we go your way the DC of the save against the spell change too.
for the summoner it is a DC of 13+charisma bonus, for the wizard 14+intelligence bonus.

So what with the introduction of the summoner (what a surprise, another thing that the summoner broke) we need to expand the staff description, specifying the level of the spells that have different version depending on the different classes.

The summoner isn't the only class that share this problem, but it is the one where it is felt the most.

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I'm aware of the other requirements, which mostly come down to tools and materials plus a heat source for a few types of items. The rules are pretty vague about what sort of "heat source" is needed for rings, armor, and weapons. At worst I suppose you could work on potions, wands, rods, and wondrous items instead. As you said, maybe Ultimate Campaign will offer some clarifications.

On the other hand, I know that many gypsies worked as tinkers mending knives, pots, kettles, etc. It seems like fixing those sorts of items would require some ability to work metal, but I'll have to admit that I'm not sure of the details.

They worked as copper and tin smiths mostly, plus shoeing horses and some other stuff. All that and more can be done when making camp outside the wagon.

A decent sized fire, an anvil and a lot of sweat and you can work even metal armors while travelling. My point is that it can't be done inside a wooden wagon when you need to work on stuff like that (unless the wagon is specially made to be a travelling blacksmith shop, something that, AFAIK, wasn't ever made. From what I know for the forging process travelling smiths used a fire outside the wagon, while using the wagon for storage and living accommodations).

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Diego Rossi wrote:

The magic item crafting rules give further rules beside the one you cite, read post 6 for a list of the different requirements depending on the kind of item.

Neglecting some of those requirements would count a a distraction for me.

Except the CRB already has rules for adding 5 to the DC if a requirement is missing when crafting magical items. Your definition of distraction is completely prohibiting any work at all. That's a big jump from harder DC to impossible.

Devilkiller's point was a good one. You can craft wherever you can prepare spells. When a DM is ready to tell a wizard "nope, you can't prepare your spells today because you're too distracted" then he has legitimate grounds to also deny crafting attempts in that location. Otherwise, RAW supports the crafting attempt.

I've seen wizards hole up in any old room of a dungeon, let the fighter watch the door, while the wizard prepares his spells. Maybe a wandering monster screws that up, maybe not. If not, the DM pretty much always lets the wizard prepare spells. By RAW, he could also craft there (but of course, crafting takes longer than one hour so there's more chance of a wandering monster screwing it up - that's the DM's choice, of course.

But saying "No, you're too distracted here" when he's not too distracted to prepare spells would appear to be against the RAW.

Blake, before putting again word in my mouth, please re-read my posts in this thread.

Distracting is distracting, not impossible. You lack an appropriate heat source when needed but you have something that partially replace it? You get half work.
You use makeshift instruments instead of appropriate gear? Same thing.

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James Jacobs wrote:

richard develyn wrote:

Could I ask you your opinion on some specific cases, though?

Richard

Sure, as long as you promise not to use my replies as crowbars to leverage out advantages for your character from your GM! ;-)

My role, funnily enough, is module-writer rather than player or even GM.

If I'm going to include something which can polymorph then I need to decide on an interpretation of this rule which most players and GMs would be happy to accept as reasonable.

Sisyphus this is your stone, enjoy it :-)

Trying to write a interpretation tot eh rules that make msot player and GM happy is a Sisyphean task.

So I'll start with the very specific case of a vampire which turns into a bat.

According to the rules, this works like beast shape II, which doesn't include blindsense.

So if a vampire loses darkvision when it changes shape into a dire bat then, as far as I can see, it's not going to be able to see very well at night.

Which means that old vampire up in his castle isn't going to be making very many night-time sorties in the local woods because he'll keep bumping into all the trees.

Would you agree with that?

Richard

Well, Beast shape II don't give darkvision but the bat form sustain darkvision, the vampire has darkvision, so it could be argued that while turning into a bat with Beast shape II don't give you darkvision if you don't have it, it don't remove it if you have it as your new form sustain darkvision.

As a general rule I would say that if your original form as a ability and the final form has the same ability you maintain it even if the polymorph spell you used don't give that ability.

What do you think, James, it is a reasonable explanation or it create more problem that it resolve.

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Actually, classic gypsy vardos usually had a wood burning stove with an external exhaust pipe which goes through the roof. I think it is safe to assume that Varisian wagons would have something similar.

Exactly my point, a stove is a enclosed structure (and a fairly modern one, BTW, at least when speaking of metal stoves [XVIII century], while brick stoves are as old as XV century) not a heat source where you work a metallic item on the fire.

A stove can work to prepare potions, boil water and similar thing, but it don't reach the temperature needed to work metals.

A Bunsen burner can be used for low melting point items, but when working armors or weapons the heat source should be stronger, I think. We will see if the Ultimate Campaign give more details, but I doubt it.

As for Rope Trick, the rules for crafting magic items say, "Any place suitable for preparing spells is suitable for making items."

What sort of place is suitable for preparing spells though? The rules for that say, "To prepare any spell, a wizard must have enough peace, quiet, and comfort to allow for proper concentration. The wizard's surroundings need not be luxurious, but they must be free from distractions. Exposure to inclement weather prevents the necessary concentration, as does any injury or failed saving throw the character might experience while studying."

Whether you should you be able to craft without the half speed penalty for distractions in a Rope Trick, a vardo, or Secure Shelter is for the DM to decide, but if not then maybe you shouldn't be able to prepare spells there either according to the stuff I quoted above. Maybe Wizards aren't such a powerful class after all. It turns out that the world is full of distractions, from undulating extra-dimensional spaces to Bards who put on rings of sustenance and play all night long so the Wizard will be powerless. Play that funky music half-elf!

The magic item crafting rules give further rules beside the one you cite, read post 6 for a list of the different requirements depending on the kind of item.

Neglecting some of those requirements would count a a distraction for me.

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Gauss wrote:

Tacticslion, out of curiousity, where in 3.5 did it say that you cannot read via Darkvision?

3.5 DMG p292 wrote:

DARKVISION

Darkvision is the extraordinary ability to see with no light source at all, out to a range specified for the creature.
Darkvision is black and white only (colors cannot be discerned). It does not allow characters to see anything that they could not see otherwise—invisible objects are still invisible, and illusions are still visible as what they seem to be. Likewise, darkvision subjects a creature to gaze attacks normally.
The presence of light does not spoil darkvision. If a character has darkvision with a 60-foot range, and he stands within a 20-foot radius of light, the character can see normally in the light, and 40 feet beyond the light because of his darkvision.

Nothing about not being able to read. On the other hand, the 3.5 DMG section on Blindsight does state that when using Blindsight you cannot read.

- Gauss

Gauss, you know, I don't know. Honestly.

I just looked it up in my own copies and both the 3.5 and 3.0 books say you can see normally except for the gray-scale effect.

While I knew (with what I believed was equal surety) blindsight didn't let you to read, I was supremely confident that darkvision didn't allow it either. Frankly, I'm astonished.

After ten years of 3rd Edition, somehow not only I but all several dozen people I've played with have apparently had the wrong impression. I'm actually extremely curious where that impression came from, then, as it's going to be bothering me now.

EDIT: to be clear, one of the reasons that I was so certain was the fact that several of my friends and I even had a long conversation about it, and how frustrating it was that we couldn't read in darkness with said ability. EDIT 2: As in, we were looking at the text and its limitations, and discussing how annoying that was. Urg. I really want to know where this came from! Obviously I'm not the only one that got...

It come from 1st and second edition AD&D where dwarves had infravision (AKA heatvision) and elves had ultravision (seeing in the near UV scale.

Heatvision was vision in the near infrared range, was spoiled by heat (a torch, bonfire, ecc.), you were unable to read, invisibility worked against it but there were discussions about noticing the "hot" footprints of living creatures, being temporarily blinded by the heat flash of a fireball and tons of other rule discussions.

The change was made with 3 ed D&D, and the mind flayer in gray image is a page 75 of the DMG. Probably the idea was to simplify the rules, avoiding all discussions about what emit heat and what not (to make a RL example of the effect of heat on cave creatures, there is a kind of spider that live in 2 caves, one in Slovenia and one in Italy, that is so used to live in the caves that it will die from heat exposure if kept in a hand. As the body temperature of that spider is near equal tot eh ambient temperature it would be probably invisible to infravision but not to darkvision).

To continue the list of problems with infravision, most glass is opaque to IR but salt (NaCl) is transparent it, at least for some wavelengths.
Body heat bleed through thin walls if you you lean on them for some time.
You can see heat plumes from hiding people in the right conditions.
and so on. As we aren't used to see in the IR range a list of comprehensive rules on how it work probably would be a 64 page booklet by itself.

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Rope Trick wrote:

When this spell is cast upon a piece of rope from 5 to 30 feet long, one end of the rope rises into the air until the whole rope hangs perpendicular to the ground, as if affixed at the upper end. The upper end is, in fact, fastened to an extra-dimensional space that is outside the usual multiverse of extra-dimensional spaces. Creatures in the extra-dimensional space are hidden, beyond the reach of spells (including divinations), unless those spells work across planes. The space holds as many as eight creatures (of any size). The rope cannot be removed or hidden. The rope can support up to 16,000 pounds. A weight greater than that can pull the rope free.

Spells cannot be cast across the extra-dimensional interface, nor can area effects cross it. Those in the extra-dimensional space can see out of it as if a 3-foot-by-5-foot window were centered on the rope. The window is invisible, and even creatures that can see the window can't see through it. Anything inside the extra-dimensional space drops out when the spell ends. The rope can be climbed by only one person at a time. The rope trick spell enables climbers to reach a normal place if they do not climb all the way to the extra-dimensional space.

Nothing in the description of Rope Trick (or in the description of extradimensional spaces) implies that the spaces are somehow unstable, distracting, or otherwise opposed to concentration and crafting. Assuming that you are in a position that you can camouflage the rope, the spell describes a secure, discrete extradimensional location large enough for 8 creatures of any size, indicating that there would be plenty of room for any sort of crafting lab.

Interpreting the spell in a way that denies it as a viable crafting space is, in fact, a table rule; it is not even RAI.

A space that is capable to hold up to eight creatures (of any size) but has not a definite volume. Most GM that I know rule that it expand and contract to accommodate the creatures within.

You are 1 character with 7 hamsters? there is exactly the space for 1 character and 7 hamsters plus a bit of elbow room.
Very different from a secure shelter where you have specific, definite volume to place all your tools.

The rules say nothing about producing smoke into a rope trick (and medieval heat sources produce smoke). It has a 3*5 window centered on the rope, probably in the middle of the floor of the rope trick, more than sufficient for the rope trick aeration, not so good if your are producing smoke.

Rope trick description is vague and open to GM interpretation. Personally I don't consider it a appropriate working space.

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Aelryinth wrote:

kinda not thinking the wagon is gonna work, either. Likewise, the rolling motion of a ship makes it really hard to work on that kind of stuff unless you are really acclimated to it.

===Aelryinth

Uhm,

You do realize that people (gypsies) lived for centuries out of wagons, do did circuses, traders, and others right? And you do realize that these travelers using wagons didn't actually try to do the work while the wagons were in motion right? They sort of, uhm, you know, parked the wagon at the end of the day? You know, after the 8 hours of travel (as the OP asked)?

So uhm, why would you think a parked wagon would not be stable and would not be set up as a place to craft? You know, considering that people have done it for centuries like that? All you need is an enclosed wagon laid out however you need it. Just secure the work space inside.

Just to put some proof out...

Blacksmith Wagon, circa 1900, run by the fire department

The gypsies traveling wagon is a recent invention in our world.

Wagons were first used as a form of living accommodation (as opposed to carrying people or goods) in France in 1810 by non-Romani circus troupes.

As Varisian in Golarion have been using them for centuries there is no problem there to find a appropriate wagon with the space and comfort to work on most magic items. the only one that would have some problem are those that require a substantial heat source. You don't want a big fire in a wooden wagon.

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trollbill wrote:

I suppose it depends on how you look at it. A fighter with a masterwork backup for his +2 sword who gets his sword sundered isn't as gimped in combat as a wizard who gets his spell component pouch sundered. On the other hand, the fighter is out 8,000 gp while the wizard is only out 5 gp.

Not exactly, just walk into the magicshop or temple of your deity of honor, pay a fee of 150 GP and get your weapon (at least partly) restored by a "Make Whole" spell.

Seriously, why do people never think of that option?

The caster level of a +2 weapon is 6.

The minimum caster level to repair it with Make whole is 12.
12*2*10= 240 gp

For a +3 weapon you need a 18° level caster, for a +4 a 24 level caster. You don't find that kind of NPC in all campaigns.

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So my summoner is unaffected. Woot!

Oh yes, the spell section on the summoner class don't say anything about recovering your spells. So you don't recover them at all.

Must be interesting living that way.

[You get what you give]

I would just assume the spell casters all follow the same rules based off if they cast like a sorc, wiz, or cleric lol

I think I have seen that text in some corner of the rules for the summoner too, but I don't recall its position.

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As the discussion about this in the rule forum has died down several days ago I think it is reasonably safe to ask a question about invisibility.

The Invisibility ability say: "A creature can generally notice the presence of an active invisible creature within 30 feet with a DC 20 Perception check."
Then the table say that noticing someone using stealth while invisible use: "Stealth check +20".
Someone read that a two different values that you should add together, so noticing someone invisible using stealth has a DC of 40+ the stealth check result.

Pinpointing the invisible entity would have a DC of 60+ the stealth check result and so on.

My opinion is that the static DC of 20 and the +20 to the stealth check are the same modifier and that it should be applied only once.

How do you play that when playing with the other Paizo employees?

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"When your character is not in immediate danger or distracted, you may choose to take 10." -SRD

So if you travel for 8 hours, and sleep for 8 hours, can't you craft for 8 hours?

You need some time to eat, make up camp, go to the privy and generally live beside spending your life as craft/travel/sleep.

You can do that for a time in a emergency situation, but as a long term project you need a very peculiar mind to do that.
Spellcasters need to memorize spells too.

If not, can you skip sleep, get rid of the fatigue (see rage cycling), and craft all night while everyone else sleeps?

If you are a spellcaster you wouldn't be able to memorize your spells.

And again making that your lifestyle require a very peculiar character.

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For now there is no rule about how much stuff you need to enchant something.
Tehre are generic guidelines:

Armors:
To create magic armor, a character needs a heat source and some iron, wood, or leatherworking tools.

Weapons
To create a magic weapon, a character needs a heat source and some iron, wood, or leatherworking tools.

Potions
The creator of a potion needs a level working surface and at least a few containers in which to mix liquids, as well as a source of heat to boil the brew.

Rings
To create a magic ring, a character needs a heat source. He also needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being a ring or the pieces of the ring to be assembled.

Rods
To create a magic rod, a character needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being a rod or the pieces of the rod to be assembled.

Scrolls
To create a scroll, a character needs a supply of choice writing materials, the cost of which is subsumed in the cost for scribing the scroll: 12.5 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster.

Staves
To create a magic staff, a character needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being a staff or the pieces of the staff to be assembled.

Wands
To create a magic wand, a character needs a small supply of materials, the most obvious being a baton or the pieces of the wand to be assembled.

Wondrous items
To create a wondrous item, a character usually needs some sort of equipment or tools to work on the item. She also needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being the item itself or the pieces of the item to be assembled.

A lot of items require a heat source, something that I wouldn't allow in a rope trick (potions are a possible exception if you have a alcohol cooker or something similar, I think that the heat source should be appropriate to the kind of item worked) but other masters can feel differently.

Same thing for the equipment needed. working on a sword would require a small anvil, an hammer, chisel and similar stuff capable to etch symbols on the blade.

Working on a cloak would require some way to embroider it and so on.
So depending on what you want to do you need more on less stuff. It is possible to craft something with a small kit that you can keep in your backpack, but what you can work would be limited.

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Recent Casting Limit: Any spells cast within the last 8 hours count against the sorcerer's or bard's daily limit.

Daily Readying of Spells: Each day, sorcerers and bards must focus their minds on the task of casting their spells. A sorcerer or bard needs 8 hours of rest (just like a wizard), after which she spends 15 minutes concentrating. (A bard must sing, recite, or play an instrument of some kind while concentrating.) During this period, the sorcerer or bard readies her mind to cast her daily allotment of spells. Without such a period to refresh herself, the character does not regain the spell slots she used up the day before.

Recent Casting Limit/Rest Interruptions: If a wizard has cast spells recently, the drain on his resources reduces his capacity to prepare new spells. When he prepares spells for the coming day, all the spells he has cast within the last 8 hours count against his daily limit.

Preparing Wizard Spells

A wizard's level limits the number of spells he can prepare and cast. His high Intelligence score might allow him to prepare a few extra spells. He can prepare the same spell more than once, but each preparation counts as one spell toward his daily limit. To prepare a spell, the wizard must have an Intelligence score of at least 10 + the spell's level.

Rest: To prepare his daily spells, a wizard must first sleep for 8 hours. The wizard does not have to slumber for every minute of the time, but he must refrain from movement, combat, spellcasting, skill use, conversation, or any other fairly demanding physical or mental task during the rest period. If his rest is interrupted, each interruption adds 1 hour to the total amount of time he has to rest in order to clear his mind, and he must have at least 1 hour of uninterrupted rest immediately prior to preparing his spells. If the character does not need to sleep for some reason, he still must have 8 hours of restful calm before preparing any spells.

A wizard can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Wizard. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Intelligence score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells).

The rules say very clearly that you have a daily limit to the spell you have in a day and that the spells you have used in the las 8 hours before recovering your spells count against the day daily limit.

There is no room to say "I will prepare my spells at 8 am, but the spell I used at 4 AM will be prepared at 12 AM". as Quandary say.

You get back your spell slots once. You can leave some of the open, but you don't get some of them back now, some later.

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If it was poured into the ground it don't exist anymore.
Click the FAQ button, maybe the Dev will decide that it is too punitive and change/correct the wording of infusion. Or specify that it last 24 hours.

The reason to have it occupy a slot is very simple: to avoid the creation of cheap potions [actually 0 cost].
If the infusion i prepared yesterday still exist and it don't use my extract slot, I will spend today preparing only infusions of cure spells. Tomorrow I will have plenty of healing quasi-potions and my full allotment of extracts.

Even having them last 24 hours would be easily abusable if the weren't using up a extract slots. We would have alchemist players prepare all the leftover extract slots as infusion just prior to getting their 8 hours of sleep and the next day recover the full roster of extracts.
So they would have available in a day the leftover from the previous day (for 16 hours) and that day full roster.

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"Diego Rossi wrote:

3) general comment: I find interesting that people tend to remove the caster classes weaknesses and then go around crying that the casters are too powerful.

The duration problem is one of the big limits to the use of infusion and it is very reasonable as a infusion is extremely potent as it allow access to spell like Shield, Alter Self, See invisible and so on to classes that normally can't access them without investing in UMD and wands. It simply limit the ability of the alchemist to buff others as no one can force him to learn the discovery or use it. So why you feel that there is the need to remove the limitation?

I don't find it reasonable at all, simply because I can't think of a single analogous weakness among the other 'caster' classes. Or am I missing something, and there are literally ways to permanently bar a wizard\sorcerer\magus\etc. access to one or more of their daily spell slots?

Because that's what you're talking about, or at least the equivalent - permanent loss of a spell slot. I find that far too punitive - and to be honest, even if it only rarely occurs, it's enough to deter me from ever even considering the Infusion discovery.

The way to remove the risk is easy: you prepare an infusion on the spot. After all you only need 1 minute to make it, so you leave a few slots open and prepare the infusion just before it is needed.

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Spell Preparation Time: After resting, a wizard must study his spellbook to prepare any spells that day. If he wants to prepare all his spells, the process takes 1 hour. Preparing some smaller portion of his daily capacity takes a proportionally smaller amount of time, but always at least 15 minutes, the minimum time required to achieve the proper mental state.

Spell Selection and Preparation: Until he prepares spells from his spellbook, the only spells a wizard has available to cast are the ones that he already had prepared from the previous day and has not yet used. During the study period, he chooses which spells to prepare. If a wizard already has spells prepared (from the previous day) that he has not cast, she can abandon some or all of them to make room for new spells.

When preparing spells for the day, a wizard can leave some of these spell slots open. Later during that day, he can repeat the preparation process as often as he likes, time and circumstances permitting. During these extra sessions of preparation, the wizard can fill these unused spell slots. He cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because he has cast a spell in the meantime. That sort of preparation requires a mind fresh from rest. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if the wizard prepares more than one-quarter of his spells.

The rules clearly treat differently preparing spells the first time, when you can replace unused spells and recover your slots and later in the day.

Saying that you can recover further slots later in the day is clearly stretching the rules and trying to weasel out of the limit of "you recover your spells only once a day".

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Yup, now edited for the Sorceror stuff...

The RAW is kind of weird for Divine, since Spontaneous Divine don't 'prepare' spells at all,
per RAW I would say that spontaneous divine casters EFFECTIVELY don't have the 'interruption rule' in play,
since all it says is 'at the time of preparation, spells cast within the last 8 hours count against the number of spells prepared'.
It should probably be Errata'd to more clearly apply to both preparation and spontaneous.

All the non-spellcasting stuff seems pretty clear per RAW, about Cleric's fixed daily prayer time, given that they CAN prepare slots later on, they should be able to recover those slots later, although they have to suffer the reduced number of usable spells for (up to) 8 hours though.

I'm not really sure the point of the fixed daily prayer time anyways given the standard ability to prepare additional slots later on. I'm not sure if spending that 1 hour praying is an actual requirement to prepare spells later on in the day (it doesn't seem to exactly say that), and even if that is a requirement, I don't know if preparing ANY spell slots is necessary to meet the requirement, i.e. just 1 hour of prayer counts. Worst case, it seems like preparing just 1 1st level spell would count, and you can prepare the rest at your leisure thru-out the day. Since that works so similarly to Wizards, the whole fixed prayer time thing seems to lose alot of it's importance.

Preparing spells and restoring slots are 2 different things. You restore your slots once a day, but you can prepare your spells multiple times a day if you leave open slots.

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If it wasn't clear, it is only the last 8 hours being free of spellcasting that matter, so if you are interrumpted in your sleep and cast some spells and then go back to sleep, those slots can't be re-prepared when preparing spells immediately after waking... but once 8 hours pass from the 'midnight casting' those slots are then free to prepare. i don't believe you even need any extra rest, and after you wake and prepare the initial set i believe you could even cast some spells and then prepare the 'missed' spellslots, you would have recently cast some more spells (from the new day) but those ARE counting for the daily spell limit so the 'missed' spellslots should be legit to prepare/spontaneously cast later on.

You recover your spell slot all at once and only once day. If you had a fight at 1 AM and what to recover all your spells you have to wait till after 9 AM to recover all your spell slots.

There isn't a "I recover 3 spell slots at 6 AM, 3 at 9 am and the others at 1 pm" option.

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Diego Rossi wrote:

Not part of the FAQ, but a comment:

if the infusion last only 1 day and then become inert and don't count against the alchemist number of extracts he can sell "24 hours potions" on the cheap.
Very handy. I would open a shop.

While on-demand extracts are more useful than regular spells for sale, it's not like Wizards or Clerics couldn't set-up shop and do the same thing less-effectively (since they can't provide on-demand "potions")

Infusion include spells that have a range of personal and can't be made into potions, like Shield and See invisible.

Spellcasting services are done at the shop of the seller, so a there is little utility in buying the casting of Bull strength unless you are going to a fight just outside the seller shop. On the other hand a infusion of Bull strength (if it were to last only 24 hours) would cost like the casting of bull strength or little more and give all teh benefits of a potion.

50 gp * caster level * spell level vs. 10 gp * caster level * spell
is a big difference.
(let's get a few more FAQ request on post 11, apparently the limit to be seen is around 25-30)

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Diego Rossi wrote:

Same thing for the bombs, but apparently he can have a unlimited number of catalysts ready, independently from how many he can launch in a day:

PRD wrote:

In order to create a bomb, the alchemist must use a small vial containing an ounce of liquid catalyst—the alchemist can create this liquid catalyst from small amounts of chemicals from an alchemy lab, and these supplies can be readily refilled in the same manner as a spellcaster's component pouch. Most alchemists create a number of catalyst vials at the start of the day equal to the total number of bombs they can create in that day—once created, a catalyst vial remains usable by the alchemist for years.

He don't carry that stuff safely in a alchemist kit, he has it somewhere in easy reach and where he know what extract is what.

On the other hand there is no way for an opponent to know what vial is what, so an enemy would destroy a random vial.

Again, I'm aware.

I didn't mean kit as in the equipment item "alchemist kit", I meant as in his tools and components broadly speaking, his "kit" (i.e. all his vials, flasks, and other baubles). If you take away a wizard/sorcerer's components (usually via taking the pouch) there are some spells that can still be cast because they don't have a material component. Plus they have the Eschew Material feat (most sorcerer's get it for free baring some archetype choices) and some other feats that allow bypassing material components. Alchemists do not have that. Moreover, School powers and bloodline powers don't have material components, whilst Bombs do (or rather they have the catalysts).

Wizards and Sorcerers have fall-backs when you smash/steal their components. Alchemists do not. You smash all their baubbles and they have nothing (baring archetypes - a vivesectionist is still has sneak attack for example).

You are mixing things up.

1) the extracts and bomb catalysts are multiple items, so at most the attacker can destroy on with each sunder attempt, and a random one.
So the alchemist is hardly made powerless by the loss of one extract or catalyst, unless he store all of them in a single container. If he do that the error is his.

2) the alchemist field kit is a single item that can be sundered but it is not used during the combat, so that will have 0 impact on the alchemist performance. After the fight you can gather what is left of the kit, as what is sundered is the container not the content. I would probably rule that some of the material is ruined and the alchemist would need to do some kind of check to prepare a specific extract but he would be still capable to prepare most of them. I doubt that an alchemist is keeping all of his empty vials in the alchemist kit.

3) general comment: I find interesting that people tend to remove the caster classes weaknesses and then go around crying that the casters are too powerful.
The duration problem is one of the big limits to the use of infusion and it is very reasonable as a infusion is extremely potent as it allow access to spell like Shield, Alter Self, See invisible and so on to classes that normally can't access them without investing in UMD and wands. It simply limit the ability of the alchemist to buff others as no one can force him to learn the discovery or use it. So why you feel that there is the need to remove the limitation?

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I have traced a line between dot 1 and 2, so that is clearly the way they are connected ...
No, demonstrations don't go that way, especially when your demonstration has continue saying that dot 4 (metamagic rods with powers that increase the spell cost by 4 levels) cost as 56 feats.
You are trying to reconstruct a logic that probably isn't even there as metamagic rods don't mimic feats.

Put another way, you are taking green, spheric and getting peas. But it can be as easily a beach ball.

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It is hard to comprehend?

1) Infusion are better than potions as a alchemist can make a infusion of a any spell on his list, even those with a range of personal. so he can make infusions of spells like Shield, Alter self, See invisible and so on, spells that no other caster can cast on different targets;

2) If a alchemist can safely dismiss infusions he can safely sell them with the guarantee that they will last x days. That mean that the buyer will get the equivalent of a potions for:
a) a lower cost;
b) of spells that can't be made into potions.

3) spellcasting services are priced on the basis that they are done in a safe environment at the spellcaster shop. But the alchemist infusions can be stored in your backpack and used when needed. That is the reign of potions, that cost much more.

4) The rules of infusion are very simple: "they are persistent and as long as they exist they use a extract slot".
Nothing in the infusion description say that you can remove the power you stored in the infusion.
The only possible doubt is this piece in the extract description:

An extract, once created, remains potent for 1 day before losing its magic, so an alchemist must re-prepare his extracts every day. ]

The creator of the alchemist, James Jacobs said: "The infusion lasts until it is used." so I think that the extract limitation don't apply to the infusions.

Diego Rossi wrote:

...

A infusion last only 24 hours, like a extract, or it last forever, tying down a alchemist extract slot until it is used?

The infusion lasts until it is used. That means if you give it to someone and they stash it away in a vault and never use it... you're kinda out that infusion slot and can't access it. Don't give infusions to your enemies!

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Ascalaphus wrote:

A +4 Greater Rod is worth so much because it lets you do metamagic that should be "impossible".

Yes, I understand.

Quote:

The logic behind the pricing isn't "how many feats does this equal", but "at what level should this be affordable".

Feats/level is a linear progression. WBL isn't. Trying to express the value of a feat in money isn't going to yield sensible results.

Yet the designers didn't pull numbers out of their hat. They have a rational for a +0 level minor = half a feat, that +1 level minor rof = a feat or that +4 levels greater rod = 56 feats.

The dev have have give a value to metamagic rods, but there is no sign that that is based on the value of a feat, as metamagic feats are very different from what the rods do.

A item giving the feat would allow you to memorize or spontaneously cast an unlimited number of spells as if you had the feat, opaying all the costs of using the feat and with all the limitation of using the feat.

You are trying to discern a pattern with the assumption that the price of the rods is based on the price of a feat, but there is no proof that that assumption has any validity.

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StreamOfTheSky wrote:

Diego Rossi wrote:

Read the citation Steam, it is very clear: "As long as the extract exists, it continues to occupy one of the alchemist's daily extract slots."

Yeah, and as long as a prepared spell exists, it continues to occupy a caster's spell slot.

The difference is that in the case of a standard caster, a rogue or prankster bard can't sneak up to them and steal the spell out of their head and hide it, thereby keeping them from 'overwriting' that spell.

From a table perspective, would I allow an alchemist to willingly 'cancel' an infusion that was no longer in his possession? Probably. RAW, there's no mechanics listed for doing so.

The problem is that if you allow that alchemists would be selling "timed" potions (actually infusion) of any spell on their list for cheap.

Spellcasting cost Caster level × spell level × 10 gp?
With a archer or a 2 handed weapon user I would be very willing to pay double that for each day of shelf life to have a infusion of shield that will last a few days.
Or a infusion of alter self.
Or any other spells in the alchemist list with a range of personal.

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Zachrid wrote:

Can you sunder these bottles?

Short answer on the bombs is no.

alchemists are adept at swiftly mixing various volatile chemicals and infusing them with their magical reserves to create powerful bombs that they can hurl at their enemies.

Its not a bomb until the alchemist mixes it up, infuses it with some of his energy, and then chucks it. Until then its just a (free) piece of glass in his alchemists kit and the alchemist hasn't expended anything on it.

Quote:

but do those bombs and bottles count as "worn" for the purpose of sundering?

For the extracts, i would imagine that the alchemist could simply carry so many bottles that the chances of hitting anything drop significantly.

1) the "bomb" until infused with the alchemist power is a 1 ounce catalyst that he carry somewhere on his body. so, not "free", 16 to a lb. I can carry a low with little problem but not an unlimited number.

In order to create a bomb, the alchemist must use a small vial containing an ounce of liquid catalyst—the alchemist can create this liquid catalyst from small amounts of chemicals from an alchemy lab, and these supplies can be readily refilled in the same manner as a spellcaster's component pouch. Most alchemists create a number of catalyst vials at the start of the day equal to the total number of bombs they can create in that day—once created, a catalyst vial remains usable by the alchemist for years.

2) Same thing for the extracts. The rules don't say how much an extract weight, but as it is compared to a potion a lot of times, it can be reasonably assumed that they wight as much as a potion: 1/16 of a pound. Not much, but as a alchemist will be carrying a lot of them the weight pile up. It all depend on how precise you want to be with carrying capacity and equipment.

I wouldn't treat extracts and bombs as no items without a real presence.

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Diego Rossi wrote:

Very bad assumption. A infusion last forever and eat a extract slot even if it is not in the alchemist possession. If a alchemist want to keep his extract slots he will not make infusion of all his extracts. 1 steal action and he will be out of one extract slot until he recover the infusion.

Or he just prepares a new extract in that slot the same way a caster writes over a still prepared spell with a new prepared spell in the morning. Which in turn makes the existing Infusion occupying that slot go inert. *shrug*

I see nothing in Infusion saying that until someone drinks it, you cannot make use of the slot at all, which is what you are saying.

Read the citation Steam, it is very clear: "As long as the extract exists, it continues to occupy one of the alchemist's daily extract slots."

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Can you sunder a spellcaster's prepared spells?

Same answer.

Followup question: Would you like to have the core rule book thrown at your head?

Same answer.

Yes, it is called having a ready action to hit the caster when he cast.

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@Xaratherus No his extracts are "infused" ( http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/baseClasses/alchemist.html#_inf usion ) , they don't go inert if he puts them down and he can give them to other players. Because he can't know upfront which extracts he will give to others and which not (and because that issue never came up), I assume that all extracts are infused "just in case" - so it is possible to snatch one. (At least until he tells me otherwise.) This would make for an interesting twist during one combat. - After one or two encounters I am pretty sure that this won't happen anymore, or he even could put some poison in a very prominent vial on his body - which I would appreciate as a clever move on his side. But that mutagen thing is a nice twist too.

Very bad assumption. A infusion last forever and eat a extract slot even if it is not in the alchemist possession. If a alchemist want to keep his extract slots he will not make infusion of all his extracts. 1 steal action and he will be out of one extract slot until he recover the infusion.

Infusion: When the alchemist creates an extract, he can infuse it with an extra bit of his own magical power. The extract created now persists even after the alchemist sets it down. As long as the extract exists, it continues to occupy one of the alchemist's daily extract slots. An infused extract can be imbibed by a non-alchemist to gain its effects.

@tomorrow: an alchemist need to prepare his extracts and bombs in advance:

Mixing an extract takes 1 minute of work—most alchemists prepare many extracts at the start of the day or just before going on an adventure, but it's not uncommon for an alchemist to keep some (or even all) of his daily extract slots open so that he can prepare extracts in the field as needed.

Same thing for the bombs, but apparently he can have a unlimited number of catalysts ready, independently from how many he can launch in a day:

In order to create a bomb, the alchemist must use a small vial containing an ounce of liquid catalyst—the alchemist can create this liquid catalyst from small amounts of chemicals from an alchemy lab, and these supplies can be readily refilled in the same manner as a spellcaster's component pouch. Most alchemists create a number of catalyst vials at the start of the day equal to the total number of bombs they can create in that day—once created, a catalyst vial remains usable by the alchemist for years.

He don't carry that stuff safely in a alchemist kit, he has it somewhere in easy reach and where he know what extract is what.

n the other hand there is no way for an opponent to know what vial is what, so an enemy would destroy a random vial.

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There is the related question of what happen when you use a small version of a two handed weapon.

You really can say that a small polearm is a 1 hand weapon to use it in conjunction with spellcombat?
(The tricks are that you get reach and the ability to make its haft in wyroot)

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Sean K Reynolds wrote:

"Is invisibility intended to grant a bonus to stealth checks?"

"If you would like to see this officially addressed, please click the FAQ button on the upper right corner of this post."

"Please do not use this thread to argue whether or not invisibility does grant a bonus to stealth checks. What the rules currently state is not the point. Please keep discussion as to whether, ideally, being invisible should grant a bonus to stealth checks."

If the intent of the OP was "what should the Perception DC/modifier be for invisibility?," the above text doesn't indicate that, at all.

I agree. "may have been badly worded" was perhaps a vast understatement.

I can't speak to the OP's intent, though I believe I commented on the problems with the original question early in the thread.

I had hoped that if the FAQ was addressed, consideration would be taken of at least some of the debate in the thread. Now I know that only the original question will be considered and will take that into account in other FAQ requests.

This post by SKR and a the other in that thread explain very well how the FAQ system work. The discussion about a FAQ post generally isn't read when answering the question, so a badly worded FAQ don't work.

He is not right about that. The DC to notice and the DC to pinpoint are two different things, but we went over that in another thread, and Paizo knows about it so instead of rehashing it we can just sit back and wait.

But this thread has been considered for the FAQ while the other thread hasn't, AFAIK.

The other thread, here, has 12 FAQ hist against 27 on this one.

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"Is invisibility intended to grant a bonus to stealth checks?"

"If you would like to see this officially addressed, please click the FAQ button on the upper right corner of this post."

"Please do not use this thread to argue whether or not invisibility does grant a bonus to stealth checks. What the rules currently state is not the point. Please keep discussion as to whether, ideally, being invisible should grant a bonus to stealth checks."

If the intent of the OP was "what should the Perception DC/modifier be for invisibility?," the above text doesn't indicate that, at all.

The problem is that the question don't address the real quandary:

Grick, and a few people with him, is convinced that the static Dc of 20 to notice a invisible creature add up with the piece about adding your stealth check +20 to the Dc of noticing a stealthily character, for a total DC of 40+the stealth check, and 60+the stealth check to pinpoint him.
If he si right plenty of people has played invisibility wrong for years.

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Diego Rossi wrote:

"Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity."

You bolded the wrong part.

What Diego Rossi meant wrote:

"Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity."

That matters. It, once again, concludes that the user of the wand is not the one casting the spell. The creator of the wand is the one who cast the spell originally. You're just taking it out of the freezer and nuking it in the microwave.

By the same logic if you are holding a charge you aren't casting a spell, so you can't use spelltrike with a held charge, regardless of its origin (notice that the whole discussion is using spellstrike with a held charge, not when using a wand as part of spell combat, see post 35).

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Casting is casting but is not casting, depending on how it is convenient for your position?

the problem is that you are very lax in reading "whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list," as "whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” or has a held charge of a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list," in half of your interpretation and very strict in reading that same phrase as "whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” or has a held charge of a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list but that held spell has to have been cast by hand by the magus, not with a device,".

- * -

So, this is the all limiting definition of what casting is, right?

Casting Spells

Whether a spell is arcane or divine, and whether a character prepares spells in advance or chooses them on the spot, casting a spell works the same way.

Choosing a Spell

First you must choose which spell to cast. If you're a cleric, druid, experienced paladin, experienced ranger, or wizard, you select from among spells prepared earlier in the day and not yet cast (see Preparing Wizard Spells and Preparing Divine Spells).

If you're a bard or sorcerer, you can select any spell you know, provided you are capable of casting spells of that level or higher.

To cast a spell, you must be able to speak (if the spell has a verbal component), gesture (if it has a somatic component), and manipulate the material components or focus (if any). Additionally, you must concentrate to cast a spell.

If a spell has multiple versions, you choose which version to use when you cast it. You don't have to prepare (or learn, in the case of a bard or sorcerer) a specific version of the spell.

Once you've cast a prepared spell, you can't cast it again until you prepare it again. (If you've prepared multiple copies of a single spell, you can cast each copy once.) If you're a bard or sorcerer, casting a spell counts against your daily limit for spells of that spell level, but you can cast the same spell again if you haven't reached your limit.

Concentration

To cast a spell, you must concentrate. If something interrupts your concentration while you're casting, you must make a concentration check or lose the spell. When you make a concentration check, you roll d20 and add your caster level and the ability score modifier used to determine bonus spells of the same type. Clerics, druids, and rangers add their Wisdom modifier. Bards, paladins, and sorcerers add their Charisma modifier. Finally, wizards add their Intelligence modifier. The more distracting the interruption and the higher the level of the spell you are trying to cast, the higher the DC (see Table: Concentration Check DCs). If you fail the check, you lose the spell just as if you had cast it to no effect.

Working with that we get that:

- using scroll, wands, or other items is not casting;
- that if you are under the effect of "Forbid Action - Cast: Target cannot cast spells or use spell-like abilities" you can still use staff, wands, scrolls;
- that the PRD is wrong when it say "Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity."
and so on.

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And then you can't use spellstrike with any held charge as you aren't casting the spell.

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Today FAQ:

Invisibility: Can you see yourself when you're invisible?

The spell doesn't say one way or the other.

Because being invisible doesn't give you penalties on actions that require you to be able to see exactly what you're doing (such as picking a lock), you can assume that you can at least see yourself well enough to perform such actions without penalty. Whether this means you can see yourself as if you were not invisible, can see yourself as a ghostly image, or some other description is up to the GM, so long as the description doesn't hinder your own actions.

—Pathfinder Design Team, yesterday

You really need to see to pick locks?

What are the penalties for not seeing?

To my limited knowledge thieves train to open lock in the dark. This mean that they have simply a very high skill or that there is no penalty for picking locks when not seeing?

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A acid strong enough to damage you in 6 seconds emit very discernible fumes. And you need a glass bottle, as it will eat your standard water skin.