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Diego Rossi's page

Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 8,317 posts. 1 review. 1 list. No wishlists.


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Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
boring7 wrote:

*Rabble Rabble*

Low income games bad!

*rabble rabble*

Okay, that's outta the way. Diamond dust...it's wherever. Theoretically any mage with access to 5th level spells should be able to scry a location, teleport there, and fabricate all the diamond dust s/he'd ever need, or even just take a huge pile of carbon (ash, graphite, whatever) and Fabricate diamonds for free. Realism gets you lost in madness very, very quickly.

So, what's the game setup? Well it's expensive, so that casting those spells is a hassle. How much of a hassle should it be? That's up to the GM. A quest is a good simple option, though it needs to be a weak one since the gang is weakened. But here's how my old 2nd ed. batch of low-levels always ended up getting their resurrections paid for: first you get brought back, THEN you have to complete the Geas/quest that was put on you as part of the resurrection.

One really annoying quest later (or just really disgusting) the geas is up and the adventure goes on.

And what skill are you using?

To fabricate artificial diamonds (they are even good for spell use? Questionable) you need the appropriate crafting skill:
PRD wrote:
You must make an appropriate Craft check to fabricate articles requiring a high degree of craftsmanship.

and the ability to succeed at a crafting check.

Modern processes give the equivalent of a huge crafting bonus. Probably the in game check to craft them would be aroudn100 or more.

It not a mater of player insanity if you have someone attempting this.

And you can't scry a location, you can only scry a person.

Liberty's Edge

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phantom1592 wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
phantom1592 wrote:
Dropping from level 10 to level 3... is NOT something I would want to play for too long a time. especially if you've got some random encounters set up that makes them easy pickings ;)
In Pathfinder the permanent loss of a level is different from 3.X. You never actually lose the level or the XP, but you get some serious penalties to everything you do.

Arguably worse.

What is that -7 to every time you roll a d20? -35 hit points off the total?

At least in 2E you never lost abilities faster then you gained them...

The penalties are removable, you don't need to track different XP gaining rates and you don't lose feat, skills, spell slots, spells, animal companion, etc.

Sure, if you have got 7 permanent negative levels you are in dire straits, but that is very hard to achieve as:

1) You need to be at least level 8 to get them and survive, so you have good chances to have access to restoration

2) You roll your saves after 24 hours, so it is almost guaranteed that the spellcasters in the group had the chance to rest and recover their spells. Divine casters don't even need to rest to recover spells.

3) If cast before you accrue the negative levels restoration cost only 100 gp and remove all the negative levels.

4) A scroll of restoration or a NPC cleric casting restoration don't cost so much.

5) If all else fail, you can try to increase the saving throw bonus of the guy with the negative levels. I wouldn't allow that with round or minutes/level spells, but spells with a duration of 10 minutes/level or more will work.
Falling all 7 saves is fairly improbable unless your fortitude save is very bad. Even if you save only with a 20 you have only a 70% chance of falling all the saves. If you save with 18 you have a 32% chance of falling all the saves.

Essentially, you need a sadistic GM or a lot of collaboration by the players to get 7 permanent negative levels.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Happy holidays to the PDT, Paizo people and the forum goers.

Gauss wrote:

Wheldrake, its funny you bring up going gridless, we were just discussing that.

Short version: it works great for those people able to easily visualize distances and not so well for those who are not as able to visualize distances (despite using rulers).

And a bit annoying for those guys using cm and meters. Plumbers tapers aren't less wieldy that other tapers.

Liberty's Edge

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Uwotm8 wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:

You really need more than 3 rounds of improved invisibility in a fight?

And they are 3 rounds. The norm is that a item or spell use one standard action to be activated. And you get the benefit of invisibility for AoO and against attacks for the 3 whole rounds.
You go invisible at the beginning of the withdraw action. The first whole round is subsumed in executing that action. You only gain two actionable rounds to do things of your own choosing such as making attacks or casting spells. Two effective rounds to let you do things rather than the 7 minimum that we should have from a simple casting of the spell that only takes a standard action. That's a huge shift between the two items. It's not about need. It's about the usefulness of the item in a compare/contrast with a 20,000 gp item and a 12,000 gp one whose construction spells do different things. The value proposition is very different between them.

By the same interpretation you get 6 rounds from the casting of the spell. The first round standard action is used up by the casting of the spell. You are left with a move action only.

You can use swift or free actions together a move action or a standard action, so that don't make a difference.

ohako wrote:


'Hisss, I thought I turned this poor shlub to stone, but now there's 4 of him running off in different directions....ahh...I think I'll just swing my hammer around where I thought I stoned him.'

Very metagamey unless you can make a Knowledge arcana roll good enough to know that that kind of ring exist.

A more credible reaction from a reasonably intelligent guy: "Damn, it is some kind of modified mirror image, one is true and the other decoys. I make a perception check, some of those guys are leaving tracks or making noises?"
Sure , if you have used a single target spell and you know it has worked (and the rules say: "Likewise, if a creature's saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell, you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells") you have all the reasons to think that all the images are decoys. But your target is still invisible.

Liberty's Edge

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phantom1592 wrote:
Dropping from level 10 to level 3... is NOT something I would want to play for too long a time. especially if you've got some random encounters set up that makes them easy pickings ;)

In Pathfinder the permanent loss of a level is different from 3.X. You never actually lose the level or the XP, but you get some serious penalties to everything you do.

Liberty's Edge

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The problem with a epic encounter against 1st level characters is that it is extremely easy to get one or more deaths in the party and the encounters are extremely swinging as a die roll can change the outcome.

Extreme example 1: the party is in a loose formation with charging lanes, the weretiger is hiding in ambush, she roll well on her stealth check and get a result of 26. The guys with perception as a class skill don't have a +2 bonus from wisdom so no one can spot her even with a natural 20.
The weretigere make a partial charge in the surprise round, pounce and deliver Bite 2d6+6+2d6 sneak attack, claw 2 x 1d8+6+2d6, rake 2 x 1d8+6+2d6. Even if only half of the attacks hit we are speaking of 35-40 hp of damage. A first level character will surely die from that.
The weretiger win initiative, charge and pounce another opponent and kill him too.

Extreme example 2:
The weretiger roll poorly on his stealth check and get a total of 12, the player have maximized perception, and one of the traits that make it a class skill, they roll average numbers and notice the weretiger.
The wizard win initiative, cast color spray, the weretiger fail his save (+4 vs a DC of 15, 50% chance) and she is blinded and stunned for 1d4 rounds (let's say 2) and then stunned for another round.
The guy with the +1 2 handed weapon charge and deliver 2d6+6+3 (power attack)+1(magic) = 17 hp of damage, reduced to 7 for the DR.
The rogue whip out the silver dagger the party found.

1st regular combat round: the 2 handler deliver another 7 point of damage, the wizard use acid splash for 2 points of damage, the rogue stab the weretiger for 1d4-1(silver)+1d6 (sneak attack)= 6 hp of damage, total damage at this point, 22 hp.

Next round: at the wizard initiative the blindness end, but the tiger is still stunned. They need to hit with only 2 attacks to finish her.

1 single die roll will change the encounter.

- * -

My suggestion: at this level a epic encounter work better with several enemies CR 1 or less mooks and a CR 2 or 3 boss without special powers.
Or, if he has special powers, one that can do only a low number of hp of damage.

Liberty's Edge

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That is exactly what I meant. My playing group has ballparked the buying power of 1 GP to 50 € (or 50 $, it is near enough for this kind of calculations). So a yearly income of 400 gp is about 20.000 €/$.
It is on the lowish side of the normal income for a single worker and enough to own a car, rent or own a house and live decently.

In the same you have people that live with 500 €/month, the equivalent of a guy getting about 3 sp/day and people that get a 50.000 €/month salary (about 1.000 gp) as an employee. Self employed people or entrepreneurs can get several orders of magnitude more or even less that those figures.

I think that the world of Golarion see the same wide range of wealth and earnings.
The PC are in the entrepreneurs part of the equation. If their activity go well they can earn large sums of money. If it go badly thy die or become broke.

Liberty's Edge

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wraithstrike wrote:
The average commoner makes about 400 gp a year*, which is actually about 1.1 gp a day or 11s p. If we are going to base economy off of those numbers then none of the higher magic items exist which is fine because nobody is really going to be able to afford to make them

The average salaryman makes about 20.000 € in a year (after taxes and so on). That don't mean that Ferrari cars or people spending 1 million dollars to get a custom made telephoto lens don't exist.

Liberty's Edge

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Your problem:

1) as long as the negative levels haven't become permanent a single restoration is enough to remove all of them from a character.
So 100 gp of diamond dust for each character and a level 4 spell.

2)

Ultimate Equipment wrote:

Soul Stimulant

Price 300 gp; Weight —

This soothing elixir was created to counter the energy-draining effects of vampires, wights, and similar horrible creatures. If you have a negative level (whether temporary or permanent), you can drink a dose of soul stimulant, negating the negative level's penalty for 12 hours. You can only benefit from 1 dose of soul stimulant at a time, though you can continue to take a dose every 12 hours to stave off the negative level's effects.

- * -

Mulet wrote:
We play a very low income campaign setting. If a peasant makes 2sp pieces per day, and a full suit of Armour is 1500gp, then a party finding 2000GP - 5000GP per session is simply ridiculous. Every man and his dog would drop their tools and go adventuring for a few months. The party currently only has about 3800GP in the bank, and only earns a few hundred more each session.

Why we aren't all bank robbers? The successful one make more money than most salary man.

Because the majority of them end in prison, die or steal a pitiful sum.

While adventuring you risk to die every moment, and the average PC is way better than the average NPC at it. That is why everyone and his dog don't leave working at home to become an adventurer.

That said:
"a peasant makes 2sp pieces per day" is a fallacy in this game.
The rules say:

PRD wrote:

Hireling, Trained: The amount given is the typical daily wage for mercenary warriors, masons, craftsmen, cooks, scribes, teamsters, and other trained hirelings. This value represents a minimum wage; many such hirelings require significantly higher pay.

Hireling, Untrained: The amount shown is the typical daily wage for laborers, maids, and other menial workers.

Minimum wages for minimum training NPC. Typical earning are:

craft You can practice your trade and make a decent living, earning half your check result in gold pieces per week of dedicated work.
profession: You can earn half your Profession check result in gold pieces per week of dedicated work.

Crafting can be done untrained. A average person taking 10 earn 5 gp/week.

A mercenary would have 1 rank in profession (soldier) and earn 7 gp/week.

And so on.

Essentially, an average guy will earn way more than 4 gp/month (if you read Ultimate Campaign, we are assumed to work for 5 days during a week).

Check the wealth by level part of the rules. If you reduce the money available to the PC you either have to drop the gear they need, being careful to drop what they need, not what you find interesting or appropriate for their enemies or you need to adjust the CR of the encounters.
Fighting several low level mooks while under geared generally isn't a problem. Even big bruisers aren't a big problem.
Creatures like a vampire, with tons of abilities and options? That is a big problem.

If the PC are undergeared people with weak will saves will fall prey to the dominate ability. Those with a weak fortitude save will lose their levels with ease.
All will be hit easily.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

KarlBob wrote:
Stephen Cheney wrote:
Eventually, we'd like to replace the All Keywords list on feat and item tooltips with just the ones that are actually present at that rank/upgrade so it's more clear which ones you actually have as opposed to what a maxed out version looks like. And we want it to bold or recolor the ones that are being matched whenever it makes sense. That UI improvement is written up, but I don't know where it is on the feature priorities.

I hope it's pretty high, because that would clear up TONS of confusion. It would especially help brand new users, but I think the "Alpha old hands" would love it, too.

If the "bold-ing" part is harder to implement than the "limit the displayed keywords to those applicable right now" part, then I'm sure we'd be happy to see each part introduced when it's ready.

Seconded, thirded and so on a lot of times. :-)

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

As the title say, I don't know where I can see (in game) what are the benefits of increasing a cantip level.
I see that they seem to be more efficient, but I can't see what is that make the difference. The numbers and keywords seem the same.
Probably I am missing something basic, but it is hard to know if I am actually becoming stronger, I will become stronger only I get matching gear or if the increase in power is linked to increasing some other skill to a level that matches the cantrip level.

Liberty's Edge

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You really need more than 3 rounds of improved invisibility in a fight?
And they are 3 rounds. The norm is that a item or spell use one standard action to be activated. And you get the benefit of invisibility for AoO and against attacks for the 3 whole rounds.

Liberty's Edge

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someonenoone111 wrote:

I said i was going to abandon this thread, but I came across some new evidence in the PATHFINDER srd.

Quote:


Charming another creature gives the charming character the ability to befriend and suggest courses of action to his minion, but the servitude is not absolute or mindless. Charms of this type include the various charm spells and some monster abilities. Essentially, a charmed character retains free will but makes choices according to a skewed view of the world.

A charmed creature doesn't gain any magical ability to understand his new friend's language.
A charmed character retains his original alignment and allegiances, generally with the exception that he now regards the charming creature as a dear friend and will give great weight to his suggestions and directions.
A charmed character fights his former allies only if they threaten his new friend, and even then he uses the least lethal means at his disposal as long as these tactics show any possibility of success (just as he would in a fight with an actual friend).
A charmed character is entitled to an opposed Charisma check against his master in order to resist instructions or commands that would make him do something he wouldn't normally do even for a close friend. If he succeeds, he decides not to go along with that order but remains charmed.
A charmed character never obeys a command that is obviously suicidal or grievously harmful to him.
If the charming creature commands his minion to do something that the influenced character would be violently opposed to, the subject may attempt a new saving throw to break free of the influence altogether.
A charmed character who is openly attacked by the creature who charmed him or by that creature's apparent allies is automatically freed of the spell or effect.

so right there, it says, officially,

1. You have to openly attack the creature to break the charm. Keeping it held in a cage/trap does not end the charm
2. You can make it do anything it wouldn't do...

You have been show several times the exact wording of the spell:

PRD wrote:
Any act by you or your apparent allies that threatens the charmed person breaks the spell.

That is from Charm Person, and Charm Monster say:

PRD wrote:
This spell functions like charm person, except that the effect is not restricted by creature type or size.

The part you cited (and please, if you want to cite something use the PRD) is from the glossary, the Charm and Compulsion section. It is a more general rule.

The spell has more specific and stringent limitations.

to mirror your words: "I do have a hard time hiding my distaste towards people that try to cheat selecting what piece of the rules they want to use and what they want to forget."

Liberty's Edge

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someonenoone111 wrote:

@Diego Rossi

I apologize if I offended you. I do not intentionally insult anyone unless insulted first, but I do have a hard time hiding my distaste towards people who I believe is the type of person who only play the standard style and prevent creative ways to play the game by any means necessary, such as intentional house rules or fudging with a word in the RAW in a very weird way. (I've encountered more people than I like that does this.)

This is not even a RAW debate. The standard usage of planar binding is calling a creature, negotiate terms, and then he either goes home or serves you, absolutely no "threatening" at all. So if you still insist that talking to the outsider with the magic circle in place is "hostile" then there is nothing else for us to discuss. By RAW, you NEED the magic circle in place to even cast planar binding, so even if you call an outsider you've befriended in the past, he will be held in the circle, always, until you destroy it, so yes, you will hold a friend in a "trap", always.

Check your posts, you have been pretty offensive to people left and right.

And I feel fairly difficult to understand how you can say that keeping a friend in a cage isn't threatening him.

You can charm the creature after it has left the circle, to ensure better cooperation and more control (let's say to assure that your bound devil won't "accidentally" put you in the area effect of its Order wrath SLA or he wouldn't summon a bunch of unbound friends), but as long as it is in the circle it is under the effect of a threatening spell cast by you.

someonenoone111 wrote:


If you charm a guy in combat, some guy you were threatening before, and then after the charming you don't threaten him, charm doesn't break. So I will agree that casting charm monster on a planar bound creature may invokes a +5 to their saving throw, but saying it immediately breaks will make me say nonsense.

And that is exactly the piece you are missing. Keeping someone in a cage until he agree to work for you is exactly threatening it.

"You will stay in this cage until you agree to make a deal with me."
How you can see that as not threatening?

Liberty's Edge

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Uwotm8 wrote:
Claxon wrote:

I can almost guarantee you that it will not be ruled to work like greater invisbility or just granting the "invisibile" condition.

If it did then, the ring of invisbility would be grossly over priced or the decoy ring would be vastly under priced. The second one is the more likely case.

Not really. The ring of invisibility can be used at any time any number of times. The decoy ring is action locked and is limited to just 3 rounds. It has no where near the usefulness of the former ring yet is still 12,000 gp. I'd put my money on greater invisibility. At best, you can gain two rounds after a standard action to perform shenanigans. That it's one more round than normal invisibility isn't a huge deal whatsoever and severely limits any kind of setup you can do prior.

Really? Name notwithstanding the withdraw action allow you to move in any direction. So you can activate the ring using what is essentially a double move. Often better than using standard action to activate something and being left with a move action.

As an aded bonus you get 4 decoys and your friends know your location.

Liberty's Edge

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UMD allow you to convince an item that you have a feature but it don't give you a feature.
The ring give you the mystery, but you have an effective oracle level of 0 as the ring don't give you that.
So it don't work.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

sspitfire1 wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
KarlBob wrote:
What's really unfortunate is that we have similar spells, but we can't give the bombers and shamans a taste of their own medicine. The monster AI doesn't know how to apply effects like knockback and slow to NPCs, so it ignores them. Until that changes, our spells that slow, stun, and knock back enemies will only be fully effective in PVP.
If that is correct, it is a Very Bad Thing. It is already practically impossible to know if our spell are applying the special effects (I find the icons unreadable) but having the enemies immune some of to special effects is extremly annoying.
"Immune" right now simply means that the programmers haven't gotten the AI to recognize certain things. For example, knockback and immobilize.

Exactly my point, sspitfire1 we get some kind of undefined icon on the enemy (a guide with the icons and the effects they represent made by GW is needed) and we think our attack did what it is meant to do. Instead it do nothing.

I have discovered from this post that one of the cantrips I routinely use do way less than I thought.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

KarlBob wrote:
What's really unfortunate is that we have similar spells, but we can't give the bombers and shamans a taste of their own medicine. The monster AI doesn't know how to apply effects like knockback and slow to NPCs, so it ignores them. Until that changes, our spells that slow, stun, and knock back enemies will only be fully effective in PVP.

If that is correct, it is a Very Bad Thing. It is already practically impossible to know if our spell are applying the special effects (I find the icons unreadable) but having the enemies immune some of to special effects is extremly annoying.

Liberty's Edge

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someonenoone111 wrote:
a lot of people insisted you can't charm outsiders you summoned with planar binding, which is just ridiculous.

People (I at least) say that you can't charm someone that you are keeping into a cage and the trap that planar binding create is exactly a cage.

So if you try to charm a creature that is confined by the trap created by planar binding it get a +5 bonus to its charm against the spell as you have harmed before casting the spell (he is bound into a trap) and if the charm succeed the spell is broken immediately as you are harming it (you are keeping it into a cage).

Charm line of spells wrote:

If the creature is currently being threatened or attacked by you or your allies, however, it receives a +5 bonus on its saving throw.

...
Any act by you or your apparent allies that threatens the charmed person breaks the spell.

And try to moderate your language. Insulting people isn't a good idea.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

If green is as rare as it seem, it will be a seller controlled market.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
So everything I want to give to my alt must pass through the company coffers ... We haven't already seen in EvE the problem that that can generate?
Right now, in Alpha, you can't have two Characters from the same Account online at the same time. This is a recent change, and temporary.

You are sure it will be temporary? AFAIK it is meant to stay for DT at least.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
We're hoping we'll be able to further streamline this process, particularly for large batches or heavy items, by letting you automatically move items from and to private or shared vaults anywhere inside the settlement rather than having to have all the components in inventory (e.g., pulling components straight from your personal vault and depositing the finished item directly into your company's vault).
It's already part of the plan, just hasn't been implemented yet.

Hmm.

Personal hangar -> company hangar. Very EvE like.

But not:
My hangar -> my friend hangar.

So everything I want to give to my alt must pass through the company coffers ... We haven't already seen in EvE the problem that that can generate?

@Thod

The basic contracts are very simple:
Select a pile of stuff in a location
Say "I want to give this package to character X in exchange for y money (from 0 to a lot)".
Character X has a few day to accept the contract and he can see what is in the package before accepting it.

Liberty's Edge

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thejeff wrote:
Jiggy wrote:

Ooooh, interesting point on needing line of sight to ID the aura's school. Okay, so I guess how it goes down is this:

Round 1: Determine that there is, in fact, magic somewhere in that 60ft cone.
Round 2: Determine that it's a single aura.
Round 3: Determine the location of the aura, and speculate as to what could be producing an unidentified aura in a space where you don't see anything. ;)

It could be a lingering aura from something previous.

A lingering aura has a strength of dim, so you recognize it from even the faintest magic aura of spell or item that is present in the area covered by detect magic.

@Jiggy
There are a few spells that can be the cause of a unidentified aura, or it can be because the caster can't make the Knowledge (arcana) check needed to identify it.
It being a Knowledge (arcana) check and not a spellcraft check is important. In my experience msot characters have way higher level of skill in spellcraft than in Knowledge (arcana)

@GreyWolfLord
I don't agree with your line of reasoning, but there is a way to conceal your aura if you know what you are doing:

Detect magic wrote:
Magical areas, multiple types of magic, or strong local magical emanations may distort or conceal weaker auras.

Someone that can perceive magic auras or know were they are can use them to hide his aura or an item aura.

It is like a regular attempt to use stealth. You need something to give you concealment, but to conceal your magic aura you need another magic aura, not a mundane form of concealment.

Liberty's Edge

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LazarX wrote:
kinevon wrote:
There is one way to do it, actually, and that is having an alchemist with the proper feats and discoveries make an extract that can be used by anyone.
That particular loophole will probably be errataed out in a future printing of the APG.

I doubt it. It is working as intended.

The key point is if an infused extract will last 24 hours or indefinitely. If the latter is true giving away an infused extract is very dangerous as they will block a infusion slot until they are used, if the former it true selling 24 hours potions is an industry.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

Takasi, I have played EvE. Alliance leaders don't want anyone and won't be happy to accept anyone.
They know perfectly that they have a instrument to pressure people into the behavior they want and they want people that will be compliant to their wishes.
It all depend on what balances there are between the alliance leader ability to throw a company out of a settlement and the company ability to throw a character out it against the character ability to find a new company and the company ability to find a new settlement or to live without them.

Currently it seem that there will be the possibility to find a new company for a single character and for a company to find a new settlement but not a real possibility for a character without being part of a company and for a company to live without being part of a settlement.

That mean that as soon as a company is throw out of a settlement it will lose a large number of members as they will try to join another company to stay in the settlement where they have build their homes and have their gear.
The homeless company and its members will be weakened having lost the gear, the ability to make and use it and part of their numbers. Negotiating to be accepted by another settlement will be from a position of extreme need and the other part will know it. A very bad bargaining position.

I don't know, it can work splendidly, but generally people that become the the lord of a alliance has a good dose of ego and will love to use his power. I see some serious problem ahead until we find a balance.

Liberty's Edge

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@someonenoone111

All charm spell have this limitation:

PRD wrote:


Any act by you or your apparent allies that threatens the charmed person breaks the spell.

Planar binding is an hostile act.

So the creature first get a +5 to the save, then if hit fail it, the charm is immediately broke an you are undergoing an hostile action against it.

You don't held a friend in a trap.

Liberty's Edge

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"As a standard action, you can make a single attack using a melee weapon at a range of 30 feet. This attack is treated as a ranged attack with a thrown weapon, except that you add your Intelligence modifier on the attack roll instead of your Dexterity modifier (damage still relies on Strength)."

"Vital Strike (Combat)
Benefit: When you use the attack action,"

I fear RAW it will not work. It is not a attack action, it is a standard action that is an attack.
I would allow it, but officially it is disallowed.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

Lam wrote:
The NPC sites train to level 8.

7 for most skills, 6 for armor, 3 for attack feats. It is in the opening post.

The Alpha 13 blog say 8, but my unaligned alt is capped at 7

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Apparently the keybinding is the best solution. Thanks to all of you the input.

I am the only one that find dark blue on dark background hard to read, or you are all in agreement and so think that is not necessary to comment?

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Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:

A second issue is a problem for some of non US keyboard users. We don't have a tilde key and the key in that position (\ for me) don't work for changing weapon set.

Changing the window setting for the keyboard so that it is treated as a US keyboard when playing don't seem a good idea.
it is possible to correct this problem?

Did you try the single open quote (`) if you have one, as that is the actual key?

The other option is to make a modified keybinding to use whatever you want by using export and import:

instructions on modifying keybindings in PFO

' don't work.

Modifying my key binding can be a solution, but it can conflict with the future builds. It is hard to guess if a specific key will be used for something in the future.

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HangarFlying wrote:
Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan wrote:
HangarFlying wrote:
Meh, even James Jacobs recommends the wondrous item elixir route. But like you said, each GM has the discretion to do what they wish.
Citation?

Of course, now that I need to find it, I can't find it. It's in the Rise of the Runelords thread somewhere (or perhaps in the monstrous "Ask JJ Anything" thread). I'll keep hunting it down.

Essentially, it was brought up that one of the NPCs had a potion for a spell that couldn't be made into a potion (had a range of "personal"), to which he basically responded by saying to just make it a wondrous item.

From what I recall, he said exactly the opposite when asked.

It is a bad idea to have craft wondrous items substitute for brew potion.
It is possible that I am misremembering and SKR was the one saying that.

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I am trying to register the materials I get from harvesting and killing NPC and I have a problem when doing that:

some material label (like maple logs) is written in dark blue on a dark background, that make it hard to read. As I am trying to register what I get from each node I have discovered that I am often getting the wrong numbers as the registered total and what I have in my inventory are different.
It is a minor thing but annoying, and if some of the document drop have the same issue reading them will become a core.
I hope it will be only a minor change to make it light blue or some other readable color.

- * -

A second issue is a problem for some of non US keyboard users. We don't have a tilde key and the key in that position (\ for me) don't work for changing weapon set.
Changing the window setting for the keyboard so that it is treated as a US keyboard when playing don't seem a good idea.
it is possible to correct this problem?

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:
Kadere wrote:
Never has a mod post pleased me more. Perfection in action!
We have different definitions of perfection. I spent the better part of an hour composing a well thought out answer to the actual issues Summersnow raised, and all that work is taken away. I don't know what that's like for the rest of you, but for me, as a professional writer, it's highly reminiscent of being kicked in the stomach. Imagine yourself a technician who spends time setting up your parent's awful computer, only to have the guy from the cable company come along and throw the computer in the garabage while you're out.

I had that happening a few times (and some of those I was the culprit). If you cite a post that is deleted (even part of it) your post is deleted too.

It is a reasonable rule, of flamewars will last forever through citations.
If you want to reply to a dubious post and want your reply to last, the best solution is not to cite ti but to start your post with "@(cited guy name)"

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SlimGauge wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
While I agree with the other stuff, I have doubts about the ability to "identify the school of magic" of the invisibility spell, as detect magic require line of signt to do that, and invisibility preclude the existance of a line of sight.

Even if you can't perceive the invisible thing, you can still have line of sight to it. It's similar to something that is camouflaged or is using Hide in Plain Sight. You might not, however, be able to target it (depending on HOW you're targeting it).

Let's say your helpful wizard ally has glitter-dusted the invisible thing. You still can't see it, but you CAN see its outline. The glitterdust has not changed your line of sight. You always had it.

Line of sight isn't well defined in the rules, but it require you to be able to pinpoint the creature/item, not his/its square.

Glitterdust or Faerie fire do that, it pinpoint the creature, Detect magic don't.

PRD wrote:
Total Concealment: If you have line of effect to a target but not line of sight, he is considered to have total concealment from you. You can't attack an opponent that has total concealment, though you can attack into a square that you think he occupies. A successful attack into a square occupied by an enemy with total concealment has a 50% miss chance (instead of the normal 20% miss chance for an opponent with concealment).

AFAIK that is the nearest thing to a definition of "line of sight" that we can find in the rules.

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YIDM wrote:
deusvult wrote:

Would not work.

You can't use a positive return from a 60' cone of detect evil as a substitute for being able directly target a creature.

Where does it say I have to be able to target them (need line of sight) within the cone to "concentrate on a single individual"? (or did I miss a FAQ)

Detect evil doesn't require line of sight or line of effect (as a AoE cone that penetrates up to 1 foot of stone). I'm just choosing one individual to focus on...

YIDM

To concentrate on something you need to be able to target him.

First round of detect evil only say that there is something evil.
2nd round
give the evil aura strength
3rd round give the square, but don't make it/him targettable if it/him isn't already targettable.

And:

PRD -3rd round of Detect evil wrote:
If an aura is outside your line of sight, then you discern its direction but not its exact location.

A invisible creature/item is outside your line of sight, so you don't even know its/his location.

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Jiggy wrote:
YIDM wrote:
Jeff Merola wrote:

As a four star PFS GM let me tell you that the number of stars we have has very little to do with rules mastery or how good of a GM we are.

Part of the GM's that argued the point used their "stars" as evidence they (both of them) knew the rules better than I did; and I didn't know what I was talking about.

Trying to end an argument by citing one's GM stars (rather than actually engaging the topic at hand) is pretty inappropriate, and such behavior should probably be reported to your local VC (or to Mike Brock if the GMs in question are themselves VOs).

On the other side of the coin, if this topic was coming up in the middle of a game, then hopefully how you handled it was (unless serious consequences were on the line) to just accept the GM's ruling and move on, and this thread is just your post-game follow up. :)

As for the rules question at hand:
The fact that detect magic is explicitly capable of penetrating opaque barriers proves that it does not require seeing the subject.
Detect magic says you can identify the school of magic, and neither the spell description nor the rules for illusions (or for invisibility) provides any exception to that blanket rule.
Detect magic works how it says it works.

While I agree with the other stuff, I have doubts about the ability to "identify the school of magic" of the invisibility spell, as detect magic require line of signt to do that, and invisibility preclude the existance of a line of sight.

Detect Magic wrote:
3rd Round: The strength and location of each aura. If the items or creatures bearing the auras are in line of sight, you can make Knowledge (arcana) skill checks to determine the school of magic involved in each. (Make one check per aura: DC 15 + spell level, or 15 + 1/2 caster level for a nonspell effect.) If the aura emanates from a magic item, you can attempt to identify its properties (see Spellcraft).3rd Round: The strength and location of each aura. If the items or creatures bearing the auras are in line of sight, you can make Knowledge (arcana) skill checks to determine the school of magic involved in each. (Make one check per aura: DC 15 + spell level, or 15 + 1/2 caster level for a nonspell effect.) If the aura emanates from a magic item, you can attempt to identify its properties (see Spellcraft).

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Caliban_ if you need to take any kind of action to threaten you can't take an AoO, so you can't threaten with a weapon you aren't wielding.
You don't threaten with a sheathed dagger, even if you have quickdraw and
you can draw it with a free action. Same thing for a uncast spell.
If it hasn't been already cast you can't threaten with it, even if you can cast it as a free action.

If you take weapon focus with Hurled produce flame you can threaten with it, but you should have already cast the spell, you can't cast the spell as part of the AoO.

For Snap shot to work with a bow the bow should be already in your hand, ready to be used.
For snap shot to work with a weapon like spell effect the spell should be already cast and the effect in your hand ready to be used.

- * -

Your whole argument is an attempt to say that casting a spell as a free action is the same thing as drawing ammunitions for a missile weapon and that is simply a false equivalence.

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It would be interesting if salvage was usable for that kind of rituals. Schedim, without the need to add more items.

Rituals that require items that are usable as two different crafting materials, like broken goblin weapons that can be used either as copper or iron, would generate player driven quests if you need enough pieces.

"A reward of XX coins for 10 broken goblin weapons"

It can be done even today through the AH, but advertising it in the tavern or some other way have some interesting ramification.

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wraithstrike wrote:
fretgod99 wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Are there not gloves, that require you to take them off, to activate?

Are there? I not familiar off the top of my head, but that doesn't mean anything.

That being said, if the item's description explicitly tells you that it functions on removal, I don't see what the problem would be. It's an explicit rule that would override this more general presumption.

I think he was being sarcastic and trying to get RD to answer his own question at the same time.
PRD wrote:

Challenger's Gloves

Price 2,200 gp; Aura faint enchantment; CL 1st; Weight —

These supple, velvet gloves are the sort that might be thrown down in challenge for a duel or other single combat. By removing a glove and using it to make a melee or ranged touch attack against an opponent, the wearer of the other glove gains a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls against the target, and the target gains a –1 penalty on attack rolls against the wearer. Both of these effects last for 1 minute, but immediately end if anyone but the glove's wearer attacks the challenged opponent. Both gloves must be worn by the same creature.

Technically these items are broken by the FAQ, as they say "Both of these effects last for 1 minute, but immediately end if anyone but the glove's wearer attacks the challenged opponent. Both gloves must be worn by the same creature.
Quote:


but I hope ost people will get RAI.

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Zwordsman wrote:

kind of.. scanned over the previous thing but wanted to input.

Order of operations.
You cast a spell. You gain the spell effects "number of rays"(depending on the spell)
you wield the spell's ray, and take a non-action attack with it (typically as part of the spell)
I remember somewhere someone saying that melee touch attacks recieve "free action attacks" but I can't remember where it makes mention of it
EDIT: Found it in Magus's spell strike.

But that would mean that since it's written the same way the same is true of ranged touch attack spells no?

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **
I've always thought it was weird people said you couldn't...

You know how rule formattign work?

PRD wrote:

Touch Spells in Combat: Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.

Touch Attacks: Touching an opponent with a touch spell is considered to be an armed attack and therefore does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The act of casting a spell, however, does provoke an attack of opportunity. Touch attacks come in two types: melee touch attacks and ranged touch attacks. You can score critical hits with either type of attack as long as the spell deals damage. Your opponent's AC against a touch attack does not include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. His size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) all apply normally.

Holding the Charge: If you don't discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren't considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.

Ranged Touch Spells in Combat: Some spells allow you to make a ranged touch attack as part of the casting of the spell. These attacks are made as part of the spell and do not require a separate action. Ranged touch attacks provoke an attack of opportunity, even if the spell that causes the attacks was cast defensively. Unless otherwise noted, ranged touch attacks cannot be held until a later turn.

The italic section under a bolded header refer to that bolded section.

A new bolded header mean a different section.

And just to point it separately:

PRD wrote:
Holding the Charge: If you don't discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round.

You can make touch attacks while holding a charge, not ranged touch attacks.

touch attacks pointed out another rule that prohibit holding ranged touch attacks.

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jimibones83 wrote:
Quantum Steve wrote:
jimibones83 wrote:
I disagree. You can indeed wield magic.
Different definition of wield, obviously. Also, wielding magic is not a requirement for making an AoO with a ray, you must wield the ray. You cannot hold and use a ray.
I dont see how its a different definition of wield. I was viewing it as something your always armed with, like a natural attack (unless perhaps your in an AMF). But, that's a good point about there being a difference between magic and a specific use of that magic. I think I mentioned that earlier as well.

???

Please,read the rules about armed touch attacks and holding the charge.
You aren't always armed with magic, you are armed with magic when you have a held spell, or a spell with multiple uses., not because you can potentially, if you have rested and memorized them or you are a spontaneous spellcaster, cast some spell.

There is not a generic magic attack. There are spells, spell like abilities and supernatural powers, all with their rules.

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Ipslore the Red wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:

because

d20pfsrd.com wrote:
An attack of opportunity is a single melee attack,
Snap Shot wrote:


Benefit: While wielding a ranged weapon with which you have Weapon Focus, you threaten squares within 5 feet of you. You can make attacks of opportunity with that ranged weapon.
A ranged touch attack is a ranged weapon, as Weapon Focus (ray) makes clear.

But you don't wield it. You cast teh spell, you fire the ray. After that you aren't wielding it.

let's put it another way using a bow:

You want to be able to use snap shot with your bow while you are empty handed, claiming that you are wielding it as you have weapon focus in it.

jimibones83 wrote:

@GM I agree. It states nowhere that you can not use magic to make an AoO. The only question seems to be, is a person wielding the ray when the target provokes.

Personally, I would consider a magic user to always be wielding magic, but perhaps not the ray specically.

So a bow specialist is always wielding a bow?

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Mhart7707 wrote:

A weight of 2 lbs is normal for a geologist hammer, and that is made to break stones for a long time. Rule wise our equipment never get damaged or suffer wear and tear for using it.

Sorry I am unsure as to how to place a quite so I just copy and pasted
Anyway I have to ask what kinda of rule is that so what we are saying is "ok guys your weapons and armor will break and become useless to you if you don't take care of it but at least you still have your hammer" look I'm still learning all the finer details of this game and I'm just now coming into my own as a GM but it seems to me that it doesn't make a lick of sense to say that a hammer can't be broken from wear and tear or that your thieves tools wont break if you mess up to badly that's what tools do they break and get worn out otherwise it would be better to just where a pot on your head as a helmet sense it can never be sundered and use a really big hammer as your weapon because it will never break oh wait they have that its called a earthbreaker and guess what it can be broken just saying

Sunder is very different from wear and tear from normal use.

sunder happen when with a weapon I intentionally target some of your equipment (and that can include your hammer) not when I attack you and your armor increase your AC.

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sspitfire1 wrote:
Stephen Cheney wrote:

@sspitfire1

I've been pretty adamant about avoiding introducing quest items as long as we can, and Bob has grumbled and played along for now. Currently, we have the items set up so that every item in your inventory could have a practical use to another player, whereas quest items could fill up the economy with things that are only useful if you can find the right NPC to turn them into. And if they're useful for something else, like crafting, then Bob has to constantly worry about how many of them he's inserting into the world and how that might distort the economy.

I did grudgingly write quest items into the design space for inventory, but I'm hoping to not introduce them until we have a much more solid grasp on our economic inputs and outputs, and our UI for managing it in inventory and the market. And maybe not even then, if I have my way ;) .

Thanks Stephen. I wasn't thinking about quest items for NPC quests, but I can see how that would be an issue. I was thinking about quest items for PC quests, so the value would be directly to another player or organization. It would facilitate companies and settlements rewarding players for clearing a pesky escalation or some such. Ears or other minor tokens wouldn't be useful for anything other than cashing in to another player for the reward. It is basically a way to facilitate a specific kind of trade between players: killing things for gold.

Right now, if a group clears an escalation for Ozem's Vigil, OV has no way to verify they are rewarding the correct persons (they can verify the escalation was cleared by visiting the hex). Alternatively, OV might offer 1s for killing 100 Ripping Chains goblins, encouraging players to kill goblins in Ripping Chains escalations, and setting up an economic driver for the population actively managing those escalations. But that only works if there is a means for verifying the kills.

Plus I think it would add richness to the game, having that extra level of interaction...

For your idea to work the "ears" (or whatever as skeleton ears seem questionable) need to have a expiry date or the player driven quest "get me 100 of x ears" would be satisfied by the guy that has alredy stored those ears in the appropriate bank.

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In the older builds it was possible to gather enough coal for some production, the problem is more the northern woods (at least from point of view, as I am a wizard and need pine for staves and wands).

I don't know if something has changed with alpha 14 or 15 as I haven't really played them so far.

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I am Furlan, I suffer from the stone malady, that thing is made of wood, I want a stone one.

[cry in a corner]

Reinstalling all my stuff in a new PC with windows 8 has strange effects on my mind. Still better than killing a few random programmers.

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Some of the Freeholder armor skills give gathering or crafting bonuses. They can give a speed bonus too.

The problem, as I see it, is that crafting require a lot of trading, but currently the market don't work so well.

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Mhart7707 wrote:
Then if he is using a regular hammer the question becomes can he defeat the hardness of the stone with breaking the hammers handle after so much use

A weight of 2 lbs is normal for a geologist hammer, and that is made to break stones for a long time. Rule wise our equipment never get damaged or suffer wear and tear for using it.

A skill check wit a final result of 20 is pretty impressive.

Saradoc-the-Ancient wrote:


with an Intelligence of 14 I have a +2 and untrained I rolled a DC 22

Let's compare his result with a typical level 1 expert stonemason.

Class skill +3, +1 skill, +1 for int 13 (normal range of 10-11 + race bonus), +3 skill focus Craft (stonemason), +2 masterwork tools = +10

This guy, that has seriously invested in his craft, can automatically make a DC 20 check taking 10.
Change the masterwork tools to normal tools (masterwork tools cost 55 gp against 5 gp for a normal set) or remove skill focus and he will have to roll to achieve that DC.

Removing a stone symbol from a wall without damaging it is something that people do in real life. It sound strange to prohibit it to adventurers.

- * -

deusvult wrote:


All that said, there's also the possibility of context. You said it was some holy symbol. Maybe he simply fiated your failure, and that's the vibe you've caught? It'd be awkward and clunky Gm-craft to come up with excuses to prevent you from bringing the icon out because he simply didn't want you to, but perhaps there are campaign reasons in play that mess with his plot if you're able to warn people that God X has worshippers in play.

It is too constrictive for my tastes. If the PC have found a way to thwart your planes as a GM with some clever move you smile and let them get their victory.

Then you use the tools at your disposition to put them again on track, without showing your guiding hand too much.

Saying you fail if the PC do something unsuspected is only a way to frustrate them.

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Quote:

Loot

Document Items now drop from creatures as loot. These are currently set up to begin as Unresearched texts. Right clicking the item transforms it into a specific fragment of text that you can read via the tooltip description to learn about Pathfinder Online's specific lore and information about other relevant details about Golarion in general. This is a prototype version of the system; as we get access to new tech, researching the text will require particular Knowledge skills and the format will likely change to be more visually appealing.

If you don't want to create a library of lore, the researched texts can be used as scrap paper stock for the Tier 2 Recycled Paper Sawyer refining recipe.

Drool

We will be able to make our documents in the future?

We will have a library in our homes?

How much for an unseen servant keeping our home in order? (I want one in real life)

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sledgehammer Head from 2.2 to 6 lbs, plus the handle.

Equipment list:

PRD wrote:
Hammer 5 sp 2 lbs.

Stonemanson hammers From 3 to 6 lbs.

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