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Diego Rossi's page

Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 9,864 posts (10,375 including aliases). 1 review. 1 list. No wishlists. 7 aliases.


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Liberty's Edge

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SillyString, you are treating two different things like they were the same.

PRD wrote:


Precise Strike (Ex): At 3rd level, while she has at least 1 panache point, a swashbuckler gains the ability to strike precisely with a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon (though not a natural weapon), adding her swashbuckler level to the damage dealt. To use this deed, a swashbuckler cannot attack with a weapon in her off hand or use a shield other than a buckler. She can use this ability even with thrown light or one-handed piercing melee weapons, so long as the target is within 30 feet of her. Any creature that is immune to sneak attacks is immune to the additional damage granted by precise strike, and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits also protects a creature from the additional damage of a precise strike. This additional damage is precision damage, and isn't multiplied on a critical hit.

That check what weapon are you using, so your feat apply.

PRD wrote:


Slashing Grace (Combat)

You can stab your enemies with slashing weapons.

Prerequisites: Dex 13, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus with chosen weapon.

Benefit: When you take this feat, choose one kind of light or one-handed slashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler's or a duelist's precise strike), and you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon's damage. The weapon must be one appropriate for your size. You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or any time another hand is otherwise occupied.

That feat target a specific category of weapons, not something that you are using at that time.

It is like saying "I take weapon versatility and can use slashing grace with any kind of weapon".

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I think that you need the kit but not the charges. If you lack the kit you use the "improvised tools" rule.
So if you are bandaging wounds with strips of your robe and sticking them with a sewing needle and fishing line you get a -2 modifier over and above the modifier for lacking the kit charges.

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SillyString wrote:


I guess it depends on whether the "You gain a +2 bonus on Sense Motive checks, and you can deal piercing damage with your unarmed strikes." part of snake style effect (and thereby boar's too) is always active AND whether or not being capable dealing slashing damage with a weapon makes it a slashing weapon.

"You can deal slashing damage with it" don't make something a slashing weapon. To be a slashing weapon it should that in the hands of everyone.

CBDunkerson wrote:
Avoron wrote:
Slashing Grace doesn't work like that, it requires you to choose a weapon when you take the feat, and the weapon has to qualify for the feat on its own merits.

Sure. Unarmed strikes are a weapon. If those strikes do slashing damage then they qualify for Slashing Grace.

Quote:
At the time you're taking Slashing Grace, Boar Style is not active

Why not?

Boar Style can be activated at any time. Someone with the feat could use it to deal slashing damage in every actual combat and every 'off screen practice session'. If all the training and experience someone undertook to learn the Slashing Grace feat came from using Boar Style to do slashing damage then how would it have not been active when they learned the feat?

Quote:
But they cannot pick Slashing Grace with a greatsword, because it is not considered a one-handed weapon for the purpose of feat selection during character creation or leveling up.
A greatsword cannot be used with slashing grace because it is a two-handed weapon. Even if someone has an ability allowing them to use it one-handed (or just using a small greatsword) that doesn't stop it BEING a two-handed weapon.

Slashing grace requirement point to the weapon, not your other abilities. The weapon is a slashing weapon? No. Test failed, don't work.

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Finlanderboy wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
Finlanderboy wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
GM Rednal wrote:
"I identified the spell he was casting as one creating an illusion, and I saw that illusion spring into place right when he was done..."
That would be a reasonable call, yes.

I disagree. I would call it unreasonable.

To the best of your knowledge you believe that is an illusion spell. Now a certain bloodline can make you believe one spell is another if you fail the check enough. So I cast wall of stone, you fail and think it is minor image. What happens?

The fact is you can be wrong with knowledge checks and getting a enough to identify it means you think it is a an illusion to the best of your knowledge. But you could be wrong.

IF a DM made this call I would say it is very wrong, but their call to make.

Can you link this ability? I doubt it will make your wall of stone appear as a mirror image.

rakshasa bloodline

Bloodline Arcana: Add half your sorcerer level to the Spellcraft DC for others to identify spells you cast. If their checks fail by 5 or more, they mistakenly believe you are casting an entirely different spell (selected by you when you begin casting).

If They got my spellcasting wrong and I said I am not casting wall of stone, it is silent image.

Now keep in mind this is very easy to achieve per the spellcraft section:
Identifying a spell as it is being cast requires no action, but you must be able to clearly see the spell as it is being cast, and this incurs the same penalties as a Perception skill check due to distance, poor conditions, and other factors.

It is easy to get perception penalties.

Ah, ok, it foil the spellcraft check. Yes, if you cast silent image and they fail the spellcraft check they will think you have cast wall of stone.

I thought, wrongly, that you were saying that it would foil you into believing and perceiving a different spell effect.

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Finlanderboy wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
GM Rednal wrote:
"I identified the spell he was casting as one creating an illusion, and I saw that illusion spring into place right when he was done..."
That would be a reasonable call, yes.

I disagree. I would call it unreasonable.

To the best of your knowledge you believe that is an illusion spell. Now a certain bloodline can make you believe one spell is another if you fail the check enough. So I cast wall of stone, you fail and think it is minor image. What happens?

The fact is you can be wrong with knowledge checks and getting a enough to identify it means you think it is a an illusion to the best of your knowledge. But you could be wrong.

IF a DM made this call I would say it is very wrong, but their call to make.

Can you link this ability? I doubt it will make your wall of stone appear as a mirror image.

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Charon's Little Helper wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
GM Rednal wrote:
"I identified the spell he was casting as one creating an illusion, and I saw that illusion spring into place right when he was done..."
That would be a reasonable call, yes.

Maybe - but if the caster knew that people could do that, it'd be easy to break that meta.

Example:

Caster A casts Minor Image of whatever. At the same time, a coordinated and stealthed Caster B casts Summon Monster.

Player X IDs Caster A's Minor Image and therefore has 'proof' that the summoned monster is just his illusion, does Caster B's summoned monster get to coup de grace Player X who is ignoring it?

IF you make the call that IDing a spell counts as proof that it is an illusion, then you would pretty much have to rule in favor of the coup de grace in the above example.

You don't get a coup de grace simply because someone is ignoring you. At most you get a sneak attack.

Teh requirement for a CdG is a helpless opponent.

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Jurassic Pratt wrote:
Cyrad wrote:
If they disbelieve it, the illusion appears as a ghostly outline to that individual.
See this is similar to how I've always ruled it, but I'm having a hard time finding where its actually stated what happens to a figment when you make your save versus it.
PRD wrote:

Saving Throws and Illusions (Disbelief): Creatures encountering an illusion usually do not receive saving throws to recognize it as illusory until they study it carefully or interact with it in some fashion.

A successful saving throw against an illusion reveals it to be false, but a figment or phantasm remains as a translucent outline.

A failed saving throw indicates that a character fails to notice something is amiss. A character faced with proof that an illusion isn't real needs no saving throw. If any viewer successfully disbelieves an illusion and communicates this fact to others, each such viewer gains a saving throw with a +4 bonus.

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Cyrad wrote:

I don't follow the example situation you provided.

Silent Image allows you to create "an object, creature, or force" as per the spell description. If you use the spell to create an illusionary wall, it appears as a wall to anyone who sees it. However, if they interact with the wall in anyway that compromises its true nature (like touching it, studying it closely, or throwing something at it), the creature gets a Will save to disbelieve. If they disbelieve it, the illusion appears as a ghostly outline to that individual. If they fail to disbelieve it, they still believe it's a wall, though perhaps with special properties (in the case they do something obvious like throw something at it).

It's best to think of a figment (the type of illusion that Silent Image is) as a hologram.

Silent image is a really powerful spell that's limited only by your creativity.

There are a few other "interacting" options: being attacked through the wall, seeing people move through it, recognizing the spell that was cast or having senses that allow you to notice that the wall is fake.

Illusions are problematic spells and they are powerful or weak depending on interpretation of the rules that aren't shared by everyone.

Note that silent image say:
"This spell creates the visual illusion of an object, creature, or force, as visualized by you. The illusion does not create sound, smell, texture, or temperature. You can move the image within the limits of the size of the effect."

So:
1) the illusion is only visual, as soon as someone touche it it realize that it has no substance. If you are superimposing the image of a wall on an actual door the person touching it will feel the door and get a saving throw to notice that what he see and what he touch aren't the same thing.
If superimpose the image of a wall to a open doorframe and he touch it he realize that it is empty space, at that point the save is automatic.

Quote:
A character faced with proof that an illusion isn't real needs no saving throw.

2) you can reproduce only what you have experienced. If the enemy has a form of blindsense or blindsight it is almost granted that your illusion will fail.

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Ahem:

PRD wrote:
Scatter Weapon Quality: A weapon with the scatter weapon quality can shoot two different types of ammunition. It can fire normal bullets that target one creature, or it can make a scattering shot, attacking all creatures within a cone. Cannons with the scatter weapon quality only fire grapeshot, unless their descriptions state otherwise. When a scatter weapon attacks all creatures within a cone, it makes a separate attack roll against each creature within the cone. Each attack roll takes a –2 penalty, and its attack damage cannot be modified by precision damage or damage-increasing feats such as Vital Strike. Effects that grant concealment, such as fog or smoke, or the blur, invisibility, or mirror image spells, do not foil a scatter attack. If any of the attack rolls threaten a critical, confirm the critical for that attack roll alone. A firearm that makes a scatter shot misfires only if all of the attack rolls made misfire. If a scatter weapon explodes on a misfire, it deals triple its damage to all creatures within the misfire radius.

Sneak attack is precision damage.

Afaik you can't sneak attack with an area attack unless you have specific abilities.

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9 HD monster, CR 10. The oracle has a charisma bonus of 7. So at least level 8. And color spray has a range of 15'. A bit annoying, but the problem is mostly the Pyrohydra CR, it is too high, not the color spray ability.

Increasing the heads say "each added HD increases the hydra's statistics as appropriate" but a 20 headed pyrohydra isn't the same thing of CR 21 monster simply because it get slightly better saves, a few feats and stat increases.

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skyberten wrote:
CBDunkerson wrote:
The table is from Animal Archive, and no it doesn't apply to Eidolons.

Was linked to that page from another forum post discussing item slots and eidolons and thought it made sense to apply the same rules as animals. But ok, I'm gonna pop a robe and hat on my lion-like eidolon! ;)

Thanks!

Sharing body slot isn't the same thing as sharing shape.

A halfling can't wear a human sized armor, a quadruped eidolon can't wear a robe made for a biped and so on.
What can be used by a eidolon with a non humanoid body shape should be judged by the GM.

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wintersrage wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:

Check the rules about piecemail armor. Personally I wouldn't allow that. Half plate is described as a mix of full plate parts with chain mail. Full plate don't cite chain mail at all.

Throwing away part of the armor and adding new parts seem too much of a change to be acceptable.

PRD wrote:


Full Plate: This metal suit includes gauntlets, heavy leather boots, a visored helmet, and a thick layer of padding that is worn underneath the armor. Each suit of full plate must be individually fitted to its owner by a master armorsmith, although a captured suit can be resized to fit a new owner at a cost of 200 to 800 (2d4 × 100) gold pieces.

...

Half-Plate: Combining elements of full plate and chainmail, half-plate includes gauntlets and a helm.

You realize under piecemail armor they do allow mixing and matching armor pieces you get the full bonus each piece would give you for the type or armor it is. The fact ad well under breastplate specifically stats you can upgrade to full place by adding boos gauntlets and a helm leads me to believe you should be able to upgrade half plate to full place as breastplate could be look at half armor, half plate e could be seen as 3/4 armor and full plate would be full armor.

Why do you think I suggested him to check the piecemeal armor rules? Because he can find an alternate reply there.

"I don't like it" is referred to doing that with the standard rules.

Note that the piecemeal armor rules show that to change a half plate to a full plate you have to remove the chain leg section and add a plate leg section, not simply "adding additional plates, padding & reinforcement" as proposed by the opening post.

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Ridiculon wrote:
Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
Craft feats cannot be skipped. Your DC, assuming you have both feats, is 18. If you don't have both feats, you can't do it, period.

Yup, my bad:

Magic Item Creation wrote:
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by 5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting its prerequisites.
you can get help with everything except the item creation feats

You can get help, simply you can't skip the prerequisite.

2 characters, one with craft wondrous items and one with craft weapons and armor can make it together.

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Check the rules about piecemail armor. Personally I wouldn't allow that. Half plate is described as a mix of full plate parts with chain mail. Full plate don't cite chain mail at all.
Throwing away part of the armor and adding new parts seem too much of a change to be acceptable.

PRD wrote:


Full Plate: This metal suit includes gauntlets, heavy leather boots, a visored helmet, and a thick layer of padding that is worn underneath the armor. Each suit of full plate must be individually fitted to its owner by a master armorsmith, although a captured suit can be resized to fit a new owner at a cost of 200 to 800 (2d4 × 100) gold pieces.

...

Half-Plate: Combining elements of full plate and chainmail, half-plate includes gauntlets and a helm.

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Pizza Lord wrote:

You have to choose the item you are casting the spell on. If you don't know which ring is a ring of freedom of movement then you can't target it any more than you could tell your magic missiles to strike "the bandit leader" if you don't know who that is.

Assuming your GM isn't a pedantic, take-everything-in-the-rules-as-strictly-uncompromising, you shouldn't know which ring is which. IF he is, then every single magical item will look like the one example in the rules. "Oh, that's a white-gold and feather inscribed ring." "Oh, this gold ring is clearly only the style of ring of protection +2 because you see it's a heavy steel shield engraved on it. If it was a turtle, it'd be +4."

Otherwise, you can target someone's ring even if you don't know whether it's magical or not, it might be. It might not. I would still roll a caster level check even if it wasn't so you didn't know.

The appearance of some magic item give an hit to what they do, but it is not as automatic as you make it.

I recall a section saying that a specific percentage of the magic items has an appearance that give an hit to what they do, but I can't find it. I am fairly sure that it isn't 100%, more like 20 or 30% of the items.

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FrozenLaughs wrote:

As far as I'm concerned, you've cast magical enchantments upon your physical body, much in the way that you would enchant a weapon. You've made them permanent, just as you would a weapon or any other object. Your enchantments remain upon the body even as the soul leaves the body, because it's not the soul that is enchanted, just the vessel.

If you are polymorphed permanently and then die, does your soul travel to the appropriate Plane looking like an Elf, a women (if you were male) or a frog? No. You go back looking as you did when you were created. Reincarnation? That's a whole different discussion that could be argued either way.

Anyways, does a broken weapon lose its enchantments when broken? No. (unless I've blatantly missed a rule) Destroyed? Yes, there's nothing left to physically hold the magic so it dissipates. Why are we applying different logic to a body?

And you can even recover the magic in a destroyed magic item is you have make whole and your level is high enough.

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Depend on the magic item.
If it is something that cast the spell X a fixed number of times in a day it should be possible to dispel the effect without targeting the item (but you can find different interpretations at different tables, it isn't clear cut).
If it is a constant effect you need to target the item.

Specifically, the ring of Freedom of Movement say: "This gold ring allows the wearer to act as if continually under the effect of a freedom of movement spell."
If you dispel the effect it is automatically reactivated as soon as it is dispelled, so targeting the effect do nothing useful.

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Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
RayOfLight wrote:
Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
Do you have a citation for that second sentence?

I can cite that one for him. From Incorporeal Subtype:

"Incorporeal Subtype

An incorporeal creature has no physical body. An incorporeal creature is immune to critical hits and precision-based damage (such as sneak attack damage) unless the attacks are made using a weapon with the ghost touch special weapon quality. In addition, creatures with the incorporeal subtype gain the incorporeal special quality."

(Italics mine)

Ah, they cleverly stuck that into the incorporeal subtype instead of the incorporeal quality. Thanks.

Note that there is a curious cavat with that: if you are incorporeal but not get the incorporeal subtype (let's say you become incorporeal thanks to a spell or ability) you don't get the immunity to criticals and precision damage. You only get the half damage.

The Incorporeal condition say:

PRD wrote:


Incorporeal: Creatures with the incorporeal condition do not have a physical body. Incorporeal creatures are immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Incorporeal creatures take half damage (50%) from magic weapons, spells, spell-like effects, and supernatural effects. Incorporeal creatures take full damage from other incorporeal creatures and effects, as well as all force effects.

If you get the subtype you get those:

PRD wrote:
Incorporeal Subtype: An incorporeal creature has no physical body. An incorporeal creature is immune to critical hits and precision-based damage (such as sneak attack damage) unless the attacks are made using a weapon with the ghost touch special weapon quality. In addition, creatures with the incorporeal subtype gain the incorporeal special quality.

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RAI I think that Uncanny Dodge should work against the unaware condition, RAW, it don't seem to work.

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Malovec wrote:


In this particular adventure, they are being tormented by a couple of moon dogs.
...
What I plan on doing next is, both will use Shades to cast summon monster 8, (choosing to do 1d4+1 invisible stalkers) and leave the area but not before commanding their troops to go in through the door and start attacking.
...
Do you award XP do these summons? Would you?

I see a few problem with that idea:

1) Shades? AFAIK the moon dogs have greater shadow conjuration with a CL of 12 (and so a duration of 12 rounds). They are a non standard version?

2) Damage dealt: Melee 2 slams +12 (2d6+4). Halved against an inanimate object and the door has at least hardness 5. They will take forever to break it.
Especially as I don't see a item "failing" its save against illusions, so they deal only 80% damage.

3) The encounter are the moon dogs, not what they summon. They haven't dealt with them, at most they have gathered some useful information. I would award some XP for that, but not much.
Maybe as much as the equivalent of a encounter with 2 CR 7 creatures.

Depending on the building structure and flooring I would go for some earth elemental (they can use Earth Glide through the floor if it is made of earth or stone blocks, same though the walls if they are made of stone) or some creature strong enough to break in.

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Baval wrote:
Qayinisorouse wrote:
Baval wrote:

an ioun torch is just a dull grey ioun stone someone cast continual flame on.

so save your money and just cast continual flame on a +1 strength stone

edit: oh i see, you want to use custom item crafting shenanigans to get a +1 strength bonus on the cheap. Didnt realize stones were a minimum +2 now. Your DM might allow it, custom item creation are the DMs prerogative.

Yes, my bad.. by using STR only in the title i created a little mess.

I want to find a way to add +1 enchantment bonus to the stats that are uneven for me as i create my character - i assumed ioun stones can do that for me.
if they is a rule that says there are no +1 bonuses to abilities, its impossible. but if its possible, you're saying its up to my DM to allows these "Shenanigans" ;)

If your intentions are honest it should be ok, i call it shenanigans because a lot of power gamers look for the fairly basic custom item creation rules to try and get powerful effects on the cheap.

As an example, under the custom item rules making a ring that casts true strike on "use" aka when you attack only costs about 1000 gold.

Hence, your DM needs to carefully look at any custom item you try to make. That said, +1 enhancement bonus wouldnt stack with anything, but on the other hand it will give you basically the same bonus a +2 would give anyone else. So thats your DMs call.

You must pay x2 as the ioun stone is a slotless item.

It would be better to add that to a belt.

There is a FAQ that say that you can add stat abilities enhancements only only by multiple of 2 as the items should have the same utility for all characters, but some GM allow odd value ability enhancements.

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Goth Guru wrote:


If a barbarian gets petrified by a monsters gaze, can they save vs a stone to flesh spell?

He is raging while petrified?

You guys have invented reasons why it work and then you find illogical as the results don't conform with the reasons you have invented, but the ability don't give any explanation of why it work.

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Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

Which makes no sense.

If the intent of the Superstition Rage Power is "I hate Magic, I'll do anything to not have to deal with Magic," then that should include not being able to be automatically targeted by the spell too.

In other words, if you're unwilling towards the effects of the spell, you should be unwilling towards being targeted by the spell too, meaning an attack roll should be required (but isn't, because apparently that makes sense).

Thin it this way:

"I fear magic. Magic is Dangerous."
Friend touch you to cast a beneficial spell.
Conscious thought: "He is healing me, I need this spell."
Subconscious: "Magic, magic is death, I must resist."

He want to accept the spell, but his hindbrain think it is dangerous.
And when he is raging it is his instinct that command, not his reason.

To make a RL example: a insulin injection is very important for a diabetic, but if he suffer of needle phobia he will have a hard time forcing himself to accept it.

BTW:

PRD wrote:


Superstition (Ex): The barbarian gains a +2 morale bonus on saving throws made to resist spells, supernatural abilities, and spell-like abilities. This bonus increases by +1 for every 4 levels the barbarian has attained. While raging, the barbarian cannot be a willing target of any spell and must make saving throws to resist all spells, even those cast by allies.

The rage power don't speak anywhere of hate, fear or whatever. Any explanation of why he is particularly resistant to magic is left to the player. It can be the blessing of the clan elder he received when he was a child together with the geas of never harming a black rooster.

"Superstition" can easily refer to some superstitious ward against evil (with the lowercase) that he always use to protect himself against magic. It is a morale bonus, so, as long as he think it work, it give him a bonus to his saves.

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dragonhunterq wrote:


If you aren't a willing target, there also needs to be a touch attack to hit you.

No!

Willing target has a specific meaning, as show above. It has nothing to do with accepting a touch spell or not.

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Abraham Z. wrote:

Yep, I am talking about the rage power. Didn't even realize that is an archetype of the same name.

The superstition rage power is extremely common, in my experience, and also a fun way to play a barbarian: gives a significant boost to your saves (my barbarian's problems have all been caused by failed saves) and also is very flavorful in terms of role play. It is also a prereq for the spell sunder rage power, which is also lots of fun, and is probably the main reason that I didn't switch this character to an unchained barbarian when Unchained came out.

However, it does have this potential death trap built into it, as discussed in the thread above. I had previously thought that a superstitious barbarian just had to save against healing spells (meaning that it uses up double the resources). But the realization that a superstitious barbarian can't willingly accept such healing is a whole different situation. If you are unconscious (but still raging via Raging Vitality) your friends can come over and hit you with some healing. Even unconscious you'll have to save, as pointed out by Diego above, but you'll still take half the healing. The really dangerous point is once you wake up. Now you can't willingly accept your allies' healing spells, but unless you've been brought to a hp level where you can safely drop out of rage (probably falling unconscious again, but at least not being dead), you will be very likely to die once your rounds of rage run out. In fact, absent some form of non-spell healing, or your allies' grappling your raging self and *forcing* you to drink the damn potion, it's hard for me to see how a barbarian doesn't auto-die in this situation.

Obviously this is totally moot if you've got a channeling cleric, a paladin with lay on hands, etc, but you really can't count on that in pfs.

Quote:
Superstition (Ex): The barbarian gains a +2 morale bonus on saving throws made to resist spells, supernatural abilities, and spell-like abilities. This bonus increases by +1 for every 4 levels the barbarian has attained. While raging, the barbarian cannot be a willing target of any spell and must make saving throws to resist all spells, even those cast by allies.

It say "willing target" and that has a specific meaning in Pathfinder. It isn't the same thing as "he can't willingly accept". It don't mean that you will punch in the face whoever try to cast a spell on you. It mean that, for the spells requiring that, you can't be a willing target. So it is not possible to cast teleport on a raging superstitious barbarian, but it is possible to cast any healing spell without him actively resist. simply his innate distrust make it resist the spell, hence the need to roll a save.

You can drink a potion, you simply are forced to try to save.

PRD - magic chapter wrote:

Target or Targets: Some spells have a target or targets.

...
Some spells restrict you to willing targets only. Declaring yourself as a willing target is something that can be done at any time (even if you're flat-footed or it isn't your turn). Unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing, but a character who is conscious but immobile or helpless (such as one who is bound, cowering, grappling, paralyzed, pinned, or stunned) is not automatically willing.

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Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Calth wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Abraham Z. wrote:
Thanks for all the input. The rules question seems settled now (at least to me) but the larger question of how a superstitious barbarian avoids falling into an hp zone where they are still conscious (and therefore must refuse spell-based healing) but where they will die when their rage rounds are used up, still seems like an interesting one to me. I haven't found any good means of non-spell based healing that doesn't rely on having a cleric or suchlike around. But since this isn't a rules question, I've created a separate topic in the advice forum at: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tlr7?Sources-of-healing-that-are-not-spellbase d
Most superstitious barbarians survive by staying the hell away from the kind of situations that Pathfinders seek out by intent. A person choosing this archetype has to ask themselves why such a character would associate with the Pathfinders in the first place. I've seen quite a few barbarians in PFS play. None of them took this archetype.
I'm like 99% sure hes talking about the superstition rage power, not the the archetype, as the archetype has nothing to do with saves. And he says so in the original post. And I highly doubt that you've never seen a barbarian with superstition.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone did forget that the save apples to cure spells too. Usually you save against damaging spells, so I don't know if all players are aware that the cure spells have a save that you normally willingly forfeit.

Considering that every barbarian I've ever GMed over or played with cries out for spell healing after they get knocked around and takes it without a saving throw complication, I stand by my statement.

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Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Abraham Z. wrote:
Thanks for all the input. The rules question seems settled now (at least to me) but the larger question of how a superstitious barbarian avoids falling into an hp zone where they are still conscious (and therefore must refuse spell-based healing) but where they will die when their rage rounds are used up, still seems like an interesting one to me. I haven't found any good means of non-spell based healing that doesn't rely on having a cleric or suchlike around. But since this isn't a rules question, I've created a separate topic in the advice forum at: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tlr7?Sources-of-healing-that-are-not-spellbase d
Most superstitious barbarians survive by staying the hell away from the kind of situations that Pathfinders seek out by intent. A person choosing this archetype has to ask themselves why such a character would associate with the Pathfinders in the first place. I've seen quite a few barbarians in PFS play. None of them took this archetype.

I think he mean the rage power, not the archetype.

Reading the archetype description:

PRD wrote:

Superstitious

Many barbarians distrust magic. While most just shy away from magic, others focus their rage on users of such foul arts. These barbarians are naturally distrusting, and develop keen senses to protect them from harm. A superstitious barbarian has the following class features.

I can see why one such guy would join the Pathfinders: to lock away dangerous old magic.

Most pathfinders would find tiring to be around this guy, as probably he would berate them constantly for their use of magic, but it is a valid roleplaying reason for him to join the Pathfinders.

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Abraham Z. wrote:
Thanks for all the input. The rules question seems settled now (at least to me) but the larger question of how a superstitious barbarian avoids falling into an hp zone where they are still conscious (and therefore must refuse spell-based healing) but where they will die when their rage rounds are used up, still seems like an interesting one to me. I haven't found any good means of non-spell based healing that doesn't rely on having a cleric or suchlike around. But since this isn't a rules question, I've created a separate topic in the advice forum at: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tlr7?Sources-of-healing-that-are-not-spellbase d

It is not useful for you, but new players or players that can redo the character can make a Unchained barbarian. It get 2 temporary hp for each die when in a rage. Temporary hit points are the first you lose and are in addition to your normal hp, while those received from a constitution bonus disappear when you lose the bonus.

In a home game I would apply this change to a CRB barbarian too.

Edit:
Note that being unconscious don't rob you of your saving throw and that being a willing target when unconscious is only related to a few spells that require a willing target, like dimension door and teleport, it don't remove your ability to save.

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Lorewalker wrote:


The Sword wrote:
I understand how AOO work, I have no problem with a person receiving a charge or seeing an opportunity, taking that opportunity and then getting hit back if the opponent still stands. I would have an issue if the attack of opportunity let you make a 5ft step that the attacker couldn't hen respond to. This is essentially what others are suggesting.

Want to know something funny?

5-foot step wrote:
"You can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions in the round."
What is a round, when do you take actions wrote:
Each round's activity begins with the character with the highest initiative result and then proceeds in order. When a character's turn comes up in the initiative sequence, that character performs his entire round's worth of actions. (For exceptions, see Attacks of Opportunity and Special Initiative Actions.)
Thus, you can take a 5-foot step as part of an AOO.

AoO aren't actions.

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What this tactic add to the game:
- make way more interesting the few (one?) weapons that can alter their reach as a free action
- lunge become more interesting (it is no action activating it)
- the archetypes that can add reach become more interesting.

The "wizard move 5' and fireball" argument has no sense. Why he is not using it at range? What if he guess wrong and waste his action reading a counter to something that is not done?
The majority of the spellcaster are ranged attackers, if someone get within 5' of them they are in deep trouble.
you can't ready an action to "cast a spell", you must specify what spell you are casting. If for some reason the spell isn't appropriate the spellcaster waste his action, don't move away and end adjacent to a melee enemy.

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Numarak wrote:

Diego, using your own example:

If the kobold DD 400 Feet away when the arrow leaves the bow, would you allow the arrow hit the kobold?

the answer to that question is the same if the kobold moves 5 Feet or 400 Feet.

Hope you see the problem now.

I have nothing else to say.

As already said the readied action happen before the archer fire his bow. He can still see his target? He make his free perception check?

If the reply is yes for both things, yes, he can still fire at the target. If it is no for one of them he can't fire.

And if you think that a target moving 5' or 400' is the same thing, you should go outside and see how the world work.

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Really BNW? The "dancing Kobold" use a standard action to get 1 attack and avoid an enemy attack if he guess right, nothing if he guess wrong.
Once in an encounter (unless the enemy collaborate with kobold), as I have shown above.

Having a enemy that don't use dumb "hold the line and die easily" tactics enhance the game? Yes.

It wrecks the game? I don't see how avoiding 1 attack and forcing the opponent into thinking a bit "wrecks the game".

Honestly it sound like some people want to have a "I win" tactic that always work and hate everything that slow it down.

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Numarak wrote:


And as I did not make myself clear enough, the idea with the two archers was: A: when the arrow leaves the bow, I shoot one arrow and 5-Feet sidestep.

Maybe someday you will get it:

You don't target a square, you target a creature!

If the creature move and you are still in range for your attack you can attack it.

- * -

Let's try something different.

I ready an action to cast dimension door if you attack me.

You think you can still attack me even if I am 600' away from my previous position?

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Numarak wrote:

Yep, English is my third language, I would rather write in two other languages than English, but won't help much if I'll do.

I intended to type "shoots at me".

The main point of all the arguments I brought, though, was that there is not mechanical difference between readying "when I get attacked with a melee weapon I attack back and 5-Feet step away" and "when I get attacked with an arrow, I attack back and 5-Feet step away from where I was".

For those who say that on the first instance, the kobold gets his attack plus auto-dodges the hit, you should accept that the kobold is able to auto-dodge the arrow. There is no an inter-phase in ranged attacks between attack declaration and attack execution. In the first case B attack fails because the kobold is not there anymore to be hit. Is either that, or accept that the attack has not started yet and you can still move -if you have movement left-, follow up the kobold, and then attack.

For me is more reasonable to play all this mess as noretoc or BNW play it, or even SlimGauge or Alex1976 have suggested, not allowing meta-gaming decisions to determine the readied actions.

No. The difference is the reach of the against the range at which the bow can hit.

If I am a giant with a reach of 15' ad attack you when I am 10' away, even if you take a 5' step you are still within my reach and I can attack you. If I am a tiny creature with a reach 0' and you move away after I have entered your square, even if youa re within 5' I can't attack you.

A bow can hit at a very long range. As long as you don't move outside that range or in total cover it is possible to attack it.

You make a basic mistake: when attacking you don' t target a square, you target a creature. If the creature move but is still within the range of your attack you can still attack it.

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Numarak wrote:

On the case of the two archers things gets funnier. I'll call the archers A and B.

Case 1, rock-scissors-paper model with shenagians Ready Action.

1st Round:
A: If B shots me I step 5-Feet and shoot back.
B: I shoot at A -B auto-misses because he shoot an unoccupied space and gets attacked by A-.

False example. You target a creature, not a square.

Numarak wrote:


2nd Round:
A: If B feints to shoot me just to shoot me, I remain still and shoot at him.
B: If A feints and sidesteps at my shoot, then I wait and shoot him on the right square where he is now.
(nobody shoots)

"If B feints to shoot me just to shoot me," ???

Again, you target a creature, not a square. If the creature move you are still firing at the creature, unless it get total cover.

Numarak wrote:


Funny but kind of strange, at the end this model resolves in guessing the readied action of the other contender.

Case 2, AC/to-hit roll:

It looks quite more easier resolve the situation like this:

1st Round:
A: If B shoots me I step 5-Feet and shoot back.
B: I shoot at A -then A sidesteps and shoots- and then, if B is not knocked down, shoots back at A.

Third time is the charm. You target a creature, not a square. If the creature move you are still firing at the creature, unless it get total cover.

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Numarak wrote:

You are assuming Char A ready action on turn 2 is "If attacked I will attack..."

Only Char B can adapt? Maybe Char A readied action for second turn would be "If Char B gets adjacent to me I withdraw and move 15 Feet."

All in all, the rock-scissors-paper-llizzard-Spock comedy we were talking about earlier.

Can we play that? Yes. Can we assume that Readied action should be interpreted in another way? Yes, also.

---

Note that I'm not claiming that the Dancing Kobold interpretation is not reasonable, I'm pointing out that, on my opinion, the other interpretation is more reasonable.

EDIT: just to be clear, being two possible interpretations feasible, I suggest using AC/attack-rolls model to settle down if there's a hit or a miss on an attack, and drop the rock-paper-scissors game for another moment, being the two of them possible.

"If Char B gets adjacent to me I withdraw and move 15 Feet."

Withdraw is a full round action. You can't ready it. You can move away, but you provoke an AoO.

I don't have problems with someone using his actions to flee. Rarely my NPC want to fight to the death. Sadly (for them) generally the time between "I can't win" and "Dead" is to short to be able to flee.

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There is no "Zeno's paradox" in this tactic as it require the full collaboration of the enemy to work after the first round and it work only against melee atacks from an enemy that is not adjacent at the start of the turn.

Let's see how it work. Let's hypothesize ideal conditions for the one using this tactic, so featureless plain and 1:1 battle:

1) Char A ready the action: "If attacked I will attack my attacker and take a 5' step away from him".
2) Char B move and attack, triggering the ready action.
3) Char A attack and move away, avoiding that B attack.

What is the result? At the cost of 1 action Char A had made 1 attack and avoided the enemy attack. Note that it work only if he has the same or longer reach than the enemy. If char A has a shorter reach he can't attack and so can't take the ready action.

Next turn.
1) Char A ready the action: "If attacked I will attack my attacker and take a 5' step away from him". He can't move as that would make him unable to take the ready action.
2) Char B move adjacent and ready an action: "If char A attack i will attack him." He can't add a 5' step to his action as he ahs already moved.
3) Neither of the characters make an attack.

3rd turn.
A is adjacent to B (same situation as if he hadn't taken a 5' step in round 1. If he attack B take his readied action.
If he take a move action he provoke an AoO.
If he retreat as a full round action he can't take a ready action. And B can charge him.
If he take a 5' step he can take it with is readied action.
If he ready his usual action without moving: "If attacked I will attack my attacker and take a 5' step away from him" B can follow him and make his full attack without problems as he will not have moved when A take his ready action and a 5' step can be taken together with a full attack, before, after or even between attacks.

So essentially, who will be blocked by this readied action? People that are unable to adapt.

Let's look this tactic in RL. It exist? Yes, making an attack to stop a enemy momentum and dodging away is a tactic has been used by combatants for ages. And even in Rl there are counters.

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The Sword wrote:

5ft step faq question

There are arguments on both sides and the words of the text can be construed to support either argument. Have a read through and ultimately speak to your group to see which way you want to play with and stick to it.

I'm disappointed that with 110 FAQs no-one picked this one up.

That FAQ request is badly worded. The reply to the generic question: "If I have an action interrupted by another characters readied action (or AoO), and my action is no longer valid as a result, can I choose to take a different action in place of the one that triggered the readied action?" is clear: no.

If you provoke a AoO casting a spell and lose you hae expended your standard action and you can't change your action.
After committing to an action you can't "take it back".

But that isn't what the OP is asking. What he ask is way more nuanced and require a different FAQ request.

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BrotherZael wrote:

@Diego Rossi

If what you say is true I shall acquiesce the point.

However, I was under the distinct impression that

"A character can go without water for 1 day plus a number of hours equal to his Constitution score. After this time, the character must make a Constitution check each hour (DC 10, +1 for each previous check) or take 1d6 points of nonlethal damage. Characters that take an amount of nonlethal damage equal to their total hit points begin to take lethal damage instead."

Which means not immediate death, thus being lethal damage without instantly killing the monster and thus is subject to regen.

HOWEVER!
"When the character fails one of these Constitution checks, she begins to suffocate. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hit points). In the following round, she drops to –1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she suffocates."

So in the case of suffocation the creature bypass the concept of damage and instead is dealt (theoretically) pure constitution damage, kind of. In this case, as you said yourself, regen wouldn't apply.

So I guess the final answer is it can't die from starvation or thirst, but it can die from suffocation.

That why I wrote:

"The last level of damage dealt by suffocation is death. A creature can't regenerate back from that and is dead."
I can't claim the same thing for thirst or starvation.
it would be logic that at some point a creature would die by thirst or starvation even if it make all its saves, but there is not a rule supporting that.

After all we know some kind of creatures in RL that can stay in hibernation for decades, centuries or even millennia (viruses mostly).

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Ok. Thanks, that is a reasonable explanation.
For me it is morning and I am making breakfast, so I am a bit slow on the uptake.

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Oliver Veyrac wrote:
CampinCarl9127 wrote:

That is wrong. There are certain feats that have special actions (such as vital strike or spring attack), but those abilities are called out very specifically. If you want, you can use power attack and combat expertise and vital strike all in one.

Unless the feat says otherwise, it can be used with all other feats.

Your GM is trying to bring in his take on realism to the rules, but not everything that we consider realistic is or isn't possible within the realm of Pathfinder. If he wants to be insistent on his houserule that you can't use those feats together, then be insistent that you should be allowed to redo your build since he is now implementing a houserule that you were not told about earlier.

Vital Strike + Power Attack is a pretty much standard approach to some creatures. For example, it's the best way to sunder a weapon. Our player's for Wrath of the Righteous just began sundering when they had to deal with large monsters with reach weapons as they were exceptionally dangerous. Natural weapons are significantly weaker then manufactured weapons that are enchanted. Vital Strike + Power Attack are like gold for sundering, as you are trying to destroy things in one go. That's one part that makes feat combinations powerful.

?

Natural weapons can't be sundered, if that is what you are saying.

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FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:

Wait...

AoO's now fall under "extra attacks"?

I feel that tripping everyone with whirlwind attack and then proceeding to get AoO's from vicious stomp and greater trip are within rules. The wording of Whirlwind Attack is "extra or bonus *attacks", not "extra or bonus attacks and/or attacks of opportunity".

Though I could see the confusion (IE there is the attack action, the attack roll, and an attack IE part of a full attack), I feel that whirlwind attack only limits attacks, no attacks of opportunity (hopefully you can see where I'm coming from, it's ok to disagree with my logic though O.o).

I think that the problem is that "and then". vicious stomp say: "Benefit: Whenever an opponent falls prone adjacent to you, that opponent provokes an attack of opportunity from you. This attack must be an unarmed strike." so you must act immediately, when the target fall down. but you can't do that in the middle of the Whirlwind Attack, so you lose the opportunity to make you vicious stomp.

After the Whirlwind Attack has ended and that action has been completed you can take your AoO normally, But at that point the opponents are already prone and you don't have the conditions to apply Vicious stomp.

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SlimGauge wrote:

I believe Fuzzy Wuzzy and Bill Dunn to be RAI correct.

A preferred wording might have been "any extra or bonus attacks"
My original reading was akin to an implied oxford comma
"any bonus, or extra attacks".

Just for a laugh:

BAB = Base Attack Bonus

If Whirlwind Attack were to remove every bonus it would remove the BAB and the characteristic bonus.
Several attacks with a +0 to each dice rolled. What everyone want.
:)

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CBDunkerson wrote:

I'm right handed. My left hand is my off hand.

Not for Pathfinder. You can switch your off hand as you wish (within the limit of the limbs that you can use to attack). It can be your right foot, your left hand or your left shoulder.

All could count as off hand if you are attacking with your right hand.

Next round you can choose your left hand as your primary hand and use either of your feet or knees, your right hand or right shoulder as your "off hand".

It has nothing to do with you being right or left handed or your hands.

You can even choose to attack with your knee as your primary hand (if you have Improved Unarmed Strike) and use the armor spikes on your right shoulder as a off hand weapon.

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BrotherZael wrote:

NECROTHREAD:

It seems to me that the rules are clear that a regenerating monster won't die from having lethal damage dealt.

It definitely takes the nonlethal damage such as from starvation, yes; at least until the source (e.g. starvation) starts dealing lethal damage.

HOWEVER, once the source starts dealing lethal damage the regeneration kicks in, because the rule explicitly states that it cannot die from/heals lethal damage. In order to stop that regen you'd need to introduce the weakness, such as fire or acid in the case of the troll. So the only way to kill a troll by starvation is to get it to where it is taking lethal damage from the staration and THEN hit it with fire or acid to stop the regen.

"But the rules say it takes damage from nonlethal sources like starvation, so your point is hypocritical". Well no. The key words are "nonlethal" and "like". The rules aren't saying starvation ALWAYS counts as the non-----lethal type of damage, just that it is an example of a POSSIBLE source. The focus is the "nonlethal" part. Once the damage becomes lethal, the regeneration kicks in. So you'll still need to introduce the fire and/or acid to stop the regen in that case.

PRD wrote:
Attack forms that don't deal hit point damage are not healed by regeneration. Regeneration also does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation.

Not "non lethal damage dealt by starvation, thirst, or suffocation. All damage dealt by starvation, thirst and suffocation can't be recovered by regeneration.

The last level of damage dealt by suffocation is death. A creature can't regenerate back from that and is dead.

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Ed Reppert wrote:
No worries, Lathiira. I do appreciate the answers. And yeah, I understand the bit about logic, too. That was really the point of my Gygax story. That and wondering if anyone would recognize the reference in the last line of my previous post. :-)

Galileo wasn't a Frenchman. It is "E pur si muove!"

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Fractured Jester wrote:

For the Inquisitor that takes the Conversion Inquisition:

"Swaying Word (Sp): At 8th level, once per day you may speak a word of divinely inspired wisdom that causes a single creature to switch its alliance to you. The target must be within line of sight and able to hear you. If he fails his Will save, he is affected by dominate person, except the duration is only 1 minute."

This seems a bit overpowered as written. I've seen a question posted abut this ability elsewhere on this message board that helped to limit it down to just targeting humanoids as suggested by the dominate person spell, but this ability seems vague and ripe for PC abuse.

I don't see a duration if the enemy fails, or any limitation other than what can be hinted at other than what I stated before. I could see this being a game over for any humanoid villain that the party encounters unless declares it fails by GM fiat.

I'm just not sure how far this extends. Would the target become a cohort? Wouldn't this create a huge amount of plot/character issues for the target? As worded, it looks very much like a instant and permanent 'underling' spell.

1) "he is affected by dominate person". What is the effect of dominate person on something that isn't a humanoid creature? Nothing.

You affect the target but get nothing.

2) As already pointed out, the duration is 1 minute.

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Kenky wrote:
Where is the "Off hand" defined to include all the arm?

"Off hand" is not defined anywhere, but there are a few examples of using your off hand blocking the use stuff on the whole arm.

So mine is an opinion. Not a clear rule.

Clear rule? AFAIK nowhere is defined what is a off hand, not in the rules, FAQ or even developers comments.

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"Off hand" include all the arm when used as a game term, so you can't wear a buckler and use Dervish Dance.

The limit for Slashing Grace is "You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or any time another hand is otherwise occupied." The buckler don't occupy a hand, so the feat work with a buckler.

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He doesn't pseudo cast Dancing lights, he is "manipulating light and shadows" to "emulate the effects of dancing lights".
Essentially he is using a light source of some kind to emjulate the spell, not getting the light from thin air.

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